Jared Max

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A Conversation on a Gay NFL Player

Feb 13, 2014·7,838 visitors

Cyd Zeigler

Cohost

Stage· 163 messages

Feb 13, 2014

Jared Max of Out.com and Cyd Ziegler of OutSports.com discuss the impact Michael Sam's decision to come out as a gay man will have on the NFL. Also, how has the media handled this story, and how will NFL players react to having a gay teammate?

Jared Max · 4:00 PM

Good morning from snowy Bergen County, NJ. Cyd, how's the weather in southern Cali?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:00 PM

Oh, it's just sunny and 65 right now. ;-)

Cyd Zeigler · 4:01 PM

Looking at NFL Network right now -- they're still talking about Michael Sam. Crazy.

Jared Max · 4:01 PM

Looks like around 7 inches of snow since midnight here. Expected to precipitate tip early morning tomorrow. So, hopefully folks are stuck inside on a snow day and want to chat with us

Jared Max · 4:01 PM

Michael Sam? Wait, is he that football player who they say is different than the others?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:02 PM

Ha ha ha.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:02 PM

It's funny to see people kind of blow off the story like that. I've heard so much, "this shouldn't matter - why is this a story?"

Cyd Zeigler · 4:03 PM

I see Trey is wondering the same thing. :-)

Jared Max · 4:03 PM

See tweet from SI's Pete Thamel? Says that @GregABedard broke down 922 Missouri snaps for MMQB. Comes away pessimistic about Sam's NFL future.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:03 PM

Really Tedi Bruschi? A gay teammate is one of the toughest things some players will ever have to deal with in their life?

Jared Max · 4:03 PM

This gets done for all projected 3rd to 5th round picks, right?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:04 PM

Sports Illustrated has been awful from day one.

Jared Max · 4:04 PM

Cyd, check out Terrell Thomas' quotes

Cyd Zeigler · 4:04 PM

They have focused exclusively on the negative aspects of the story.

Jared Max · 4:04 PM

By the way, here is my latest commentary on Michael Sam -- and how we need to assist each other, opposed to taking shots.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:04 PM

It's like Peter King is TRYING to make Sam drop in the draft.

Jared Max · 4:04 PM

http://www.out.com/news-opinion/2014/02/13/rewiring-sports-new-generation-gay-athlete

Jared Max · 4:05 PM

I love the new SI cover

Cyd Zeigler · 4:05 PM

Yeah the cover is GREAT! Their coverage is awful.

Jared Max · 4:05 PM

It's 11:05ET. NFL Network has moved past the Sam story.

Jared Max · 4:06 PM

Cyd, Trey Williams brings up a point that seems most commonly spoken.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:06 PM

Well, for one, this IS a big story. I can tell you from the traffic on Outsports -- it's one of the biggest.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:07 PM

Plus, it "should be" a story right now because kids are still killing themselves for being gay. Ministers are still telling people they will burn in hell if they're gay. It's IMPORTANT we lift up this story as high as we can!

Jared Max · 4:07 PM

Interesting though how some saying "Does this really have to still be news" is very different from some who say, "Why do I even have to hear about this?" The first seems fed up with news coverage, a la Alex Rodriguez stuff. The 2nd seems homophobic

Cyd Zeigler · 4:08 PM

Yeah, but a lot of people were couching "I don't want to hear about this" by saying "why is this news?"

Jared Max · 4:08 PM

Dale Hansen, the Texas sportscaster was great. Really loved it

Cyd Zeigler · 4:08 PM

I haven't heard any of my friends or family complain about the coverage.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:09 PM

Yeah, Blake nailed it -- Sam is suddenly undraftable, yet rapists and murders are welcome.

Jared Max · 4:09 PM

Please read this commentary I wrote yesterday. After writing it, I saw Dale Hansen's piece. The two are very much in line. http://www.out.com/news-opinion/2014/02/13/rewiring-sports-new-generation-gay-athlete

Jared Max · 4:10 PM

This "distraction" argument needs to be seen for what it is -- a cowardly attempt to show one's true homophobia

Cyd Zeigler · 4:10 PM

BTW, if I suddenly type jibberish like slkah;fh834yth2h ai -- it means my cat stepped on the keyboard. He's done it twice so far.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:10 PM

Yep. I have a column for Time coming shortly on the topic of the dreaded "media circus"

Jared Max · 4:10 PM

Nice, Cyd!

Jared Max · 4:11 PM

QUESTION: WILL MICHAEL SAM BE THE ONLY OPENLY GAY PLAYER ON AN NFL ROSTER, COME WEEK ONE?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:11 PM

Yes.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:11 PM

Here's why.

Jared Max · 4:12 PM

If I was an NFL player and closeted, I imagine that these past few days have been gut wrenching. I remember what it was like to be closeted and reporting on stories about anything gay-related with sports

Cyd Zeigler · 4:12 PM

He's going to be draft -- he's just too good. And the team drafting him knows they can't cut him. So teams will have made that decision before selecting him. It's the one reason I think he actually might slip a bit.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:13 PM

Ha. Michael's actually been great. He's excited. He's been through this before with Missouri.

Jared Max · 4:14 PM

As a Vikings fan, I was thrilled that teams drafting before them were scared by Randy Moss' weed issues at Marshall. While Sam may drop in the draft, some team might jump in and grab him earlier than expected, recognizing his talent

Cyd Zeigler · 4:14 PM

This is probably the best thing that could have happened to the NFL and the TV networks -- people will actually watch the Combine and the Draft now!

Jared Max · 4:15 PM

Regardless of whether there are more Vilmas or Smiths, the NFL is under scrutiny here and will likely have a zero tolerance policy. So, regardless of one's beliefs, he is likely to have to behave -- or risk being ostracized

Cyd Zeigler · 4:16 PM

They keep asking all of these guys what they think, but it's stupid. IT doesn't matter what Vilma thinks -- there's a whopping 3% chance he and Sam will end up on the same team.

Jared Max · 4:16 PM

3 percent!! did you just do quick math?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:16 PM

32 teams. Doesn't take a brain surgeon. ;-)

Jared Max · 4:17 PM

I know .. Just impressed

Jared Max · 4:17 PM

You're advancing the story!

Cyd Zeigler · 4:17 PM

Oh we know, Trey. But this kind of thing will be a story for the foreseeable future.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:18 PM

Tom, I think he's in the minority. I know even Vilma has changed his tune. I talked with Scott Fujita, and he's been talking with Vilma. Vilma feels like a jerk for saying what he said. He doesn't think it & he's making amends.

Jared Max · 4:18 PM

Cyd, you spent time with Michael Sam this past Saturday night. You were with Chris Kluwe, Dave Kopay, Brendan A, Wade Davis and others. What was that experience like, knowing what would come Sunday?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:19 PM

You know, it didn't hit me until yesterday. It was just another dinner at Howard Bragman's. What I haven't talked about is what happened after dinner. Ha.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:19 PM

Michael Sam can sing, is all I'll say. ;-)

Jared Max · 4:19 PM

I read Wade's story. I have an idea

Jared Max · 4:20 PM

Did you guys wind up taking over West Hollywood?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:20 PM

Oh did Wade talk about it? Ha.

Jared Max · 4:20 PM

"Another dinner at Howard Bragman's" -- is that a typical Saturday in your neck of the woods?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:21 PM

You know what was funny? We were out with Michael Sam -- the guy who would be the biggest news story for the next two days -- and no one other than the few of us guys with him had any idea. Ha.

Jared Max · 4:21 PM

I believe it was Wade's story. You didn't write about it, did you?

Jared Max · 4:21 PM

I love that!

Cyd Zeigler · 4:21 PM

Ha. Dan and I are spending Valentine's Day with Howard and his partner. They're good friends.

Jared Max · 4:21 PM

Classic example of how people go ape when they know or think someone is famous.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:22 PM

If we went out with him this Saturday, he'd be surrounded. Last weekend, he was just a wide-eyed kid from Missouri soaking in WeHo.

Jared Max · 4:22 PM

Speaks volumes about who we are

Cyd Zeigler · 4:23 PM

hell - if we went now we probably wouldn't have had to buy drinks. ;-)

Cyd Zeigler · 4:24 PM

Dave Benson, I'm not surprised by anyone's supportive comments. Athletes know gay people. They've moved past this issue.

Jared Max · 4:24 PM

Dave, to see active pro athletes show support for Sam and the ridiculousness of this being an "issue" is very important. The more players who speak like Metta did on this will help everyone

Cyd Zeigler · 4:25 PM

It's what drives me crazy about this comment. The guys with a problem with this are such a small minority. And once he gets into the locker room, they'll love him.

Jared Max · 4:25 PM

If I may quote my favorite artists, Rush: "And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start -- to mould a new reality, closer to the heart"

Jared Max · 4:26 PM

Cyd, speaking of the locker room --

Cyd Zeigler · 4:27 PM

Loving the convo on NFL network right now.

Jared Max · 4:27 PM

As a young broadcaster, first breaking into the business, I remember being at Jets camp when I was in college. I was aware that I was attracted to men. But, my career meant more than anything. Never was inappropriate - sneaking peaks, etc

Jared Max · 4:27 PM

HOWEVER, on several occasions I caught "straight" reporters looking down in certain directions... sneaking peeks, etc

Cyd Zeigler · 4:27 PM

of course! Esera Tuaolo talks about consciously avoiding anything that could make a guy feel uncomfortable or question him.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:27 PM

Straight guys look too...

Jared Max · 4:28 PM

Not for nothing, but when Jerome Bettis is asked if the NFL can handle this, I turn off the TV. Bettis is not a player anymore and not a part of today's younger generation.

Jared Max · 4:28 PM

Listening to talking heads talk about a subject they're clueless about sounds funny

Jared Max · 4:29 PM

Kriegel: "Where you stand on homosexual rights....

Jared Max · 4:29 PM

What is with that word? It sounds so damn clinical

Cyd Zeigler · 4:29 PM

Except, Bettis said it wouldn't be an issue. Ha.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:30 PM

Lol - nice Michael

Cyd Zeigler · 4:30 PM

Lana, Sam said he sings in the locker room so we dragged him to karaoke. And we sang backup. Ha.

Jared Max · 4:30 PM

HAHA Michael, I know of a lot of guys who check others out to see how they measure up. Straight friends have shared this with me. It seems benign, right. But, imagine it was an openly gay guy checking you to see how he measured up. Different scale?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:31 PM

lol. look, there's no issue with looking at a naked teammate. if you're respectful, they should know -- they're looking too.

Jared Max · 4:32 PM

Cyd, if you catch a flight to Newark, I will have a nice strong shovel waiting for you. We can go do houses for like $50 or $60 apiece today

Cyd Zeigler · 4:33 PM

lol. i'll stick with cali

Cyd Zeigler · 4:33 PM

Something nobody is talking about -- how MICHAEL SAM will be accepted in the locker room. We keep talking about a phantom gay player, not this guy with this personality.

Jared Max · 4:33 PM

Definition of locker room distraction: I go to workout, walk into the locker room, see an unattractive, large man walking around naked, talking about religion. I ask myself how long this will go on. He keeps yapping, naked.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:34 PM

I've spent a day with him. HE's going to be loved in that locker room. He's so easy to get along with.

Jared Max · 4:34 PM

He thinks he is at a nude beach or in the comfort of his home. But, it makes me uncomfortable because it seems like he's being an exhibitionist, hoping people will look.

Jared Max · 4:34 PM

That is a distraction in the locker room.

Jared Max · 4:35 PM

Be sure that NO openly gay player will ever pull this kind of crap

Cyd Zeigler · 4:35 PM

yeah, some guys LOVE being naked in a locker room, even at the gym.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:35 PM

Sadly, I go to a "gay gym" with really hot guys - and none of them are like that. Lol.

Jared Max · 4:36 PM

Dave, I wish that I could respond to your comment, but I cannot

Cyd Zeigler · 4:38 PM

So Jared, will Michael Sam be a story anymore on Monday?

Jared Max · 4:38 PM

Good question

Jared Max · 4:38 PM

Yes

Jared Max · 4:39 PM

He will be the fail-safe story for media outlets to keep checking in on. But, if a major NFL story breaks, he will get a reprieve

Cyd Zeigler · 4:39 PM

I say no. Next week there will be barely a peep about it.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:39 PM

The following Monday, however, is his Combine day. So NEXT weekend this will all come up again.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:40 PM

BTW, it will be a topic of discussion on Sunday -- I'll be on Face The Nation talking about it!

Jared Max · 4:40 PM

There won't be as much as this week. But, just as we can't seem to let ARod go from the news cycle, or we were unable to with Manti Teo until another story knocked him off the charts, I think this is the same

Jared Max · 4:40 PM

Face The Nation! Nice, Cyd. A classic American broadcast

Jared Max · 4:40 PM

Time magazine

Jared Max · 4:41 PM

You're getting bigger than Michael Sam!!!

Cyd Zeigler · 4:42 PM

I don't have 80k Twitter followers. ;-)

Jared Max · 4:43 PM

Twitter Schmitter

Cyd Zeigler · 4:43 PM

Tom, Jason really didn't play into the decision. But, Jason had dinner with him last Friday and the two went running together Saturday morning. Jason kicked Michael's ass. Ha. Jason has the endurance of a horse.

Jared Max · 4:44 PM

Cyd, any idea if Jason seems okay with the fact that he came out, was expected to be the first openly gay player, then wasn't signed?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:44 PM

He wants to play. Period. He's thrilled he came out, but he wants to play.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:45 PM

BTW, Jason Collins is a GREAT guy.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:45 PM

And Michael Sam is as well. couldn't have picked two better guys to be "firsts"

Jared Max · 4:46 PM

I have a gay friend who plays pro hoops in Europe -- was a high round NBA draft pick but, essentially did not want to chance being outed in the NBA -- so he plays overseas -- for many years

Jared Max · 4:47 PM

Michael Sam appears to be a mountain of inner strength. Fearless. But, it's not without reason. When it comes down to it, homophobia is nothing compared to what Sam has experienced

Cyd Zeigler · 4:47 PM

will he come back now, Jared? Have you talked to him?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Dave Benson

“Did you guys hear about that Kent State wrestler who got suspended for his anti-gay Tweets about Michael Sam? Was that a fair punishment?”

Cyd Zeigler · 4:47 PM

Yeah Dave, did hear about it. Suspension is pretty severe -- but I've felt for a long time that the only way to get through to athletes is remove their playing time.

Jared Max · 4:47 PM

We are good friends. I asked him this question when JCollins came out. Oddly, he didn't seem interested. Certainly was not going to change his mind.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:48 PM

And you can't "fine" college players since you refuse to allow them to make money.

Jared Max · 4:48 PM

Suspension: This reminds me of the NBA fining Roy Hibbert $75k for saying "no homo" ... that one pissed me off ... over-reactionary society

Cyd Zeigler · 4:49 PM

Well, if Hibbert's actions hurt the NBA's image, they have every right to take action.

Jared Max · 4:49 PM

I had no problem with what Hibbert said. The NBA was just scared that it would appear tolerant of homophobia if it didn't come down so hard on Hibbert

Cyd Zeigler · 4:49 PM

People can say whatever they want -- but no one is free from repercussions by the public or their employer.

Jared Max · 4:50 PM

Would the NBA have fined Hibbert $75k if only THEY knew what he said?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:50 PM

Zero, of course.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:50 PM

But that's my point -- if they think he hurt the league, a fine is appropriate.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:50 PM

Hell, the NFL fines guys for wearing the wrong socks.

Jared Max · 4:50 PM

I think they appeared lost, just wanting to appear like they were doing the right thing

Cyd Zeigler · 4:51 PM

The NBA and NFL are both great on these issues, as is the NHL. MLB is falling a bit behind, though they are also making steps.

Jared Max · 4:51 PM

75k is 25k more than Kobe was fined for his comments .... Kobe, however has been fantastic since then, putting people in their place for using hurtful language

Jared Max · 4:52 PM

The NHL is ahead of everybody else, it seems. Helps that "YOU CAN PLAY" exists

Cyd Zeigler · 4:52 PM

Yes - the Burkes have leveraged their relationship with the NHL big-time. The NFL is catching up fast.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tom Lorenzo

“The Lakers released a PSA after Kobe Bryant was "caught" making a gay slur. It's very much about image.”

Jared Max · 4:52 PM

By the way, folks -- follow me on Twitter @jared_max

Cyd Zeigler · 4:53 PM

Jared, any prediction of where Sam ends up?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:54 PM

what round, what team?

Jared Max · 4:54 PM

It really is funny to see corporations scramble, trying to appear like on-board to keep the gays happy ... Do they really want to do what's right, or are they scared of losing $$ because of perception?

Jared Max · 4:55 PM

I predict that Michel Sam will be drafted no later than the 5th round. Don't be shocked if he gets picked in the 2nd or 3rd round. Some team might have a need for him and may even want to be the team that drafts him, for historical purposes

Jared Max · 4:55 PM

What about you, Cyd?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:56 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking 3rd round. Someone will see the value. Team? What division has the best QBs?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:56 PM

NFC East?

Jared Max · 4:56 PM

Best QBs?

Jared Max · 4:56 PM

I don't get it

Cyd Zeigler · 4:56 PM

Yeah - what team may look at the rest of the division and think, "we really need a good pass rusher"

Cyd Zeigler · 4:56 PM

Hmmm - how about the Vikings?

Cyd Zeigler · 4:57 PM

It would give them cover for the Chris Kluwe thing - shut that up real fast.

Cyd Zeigler · 4:57 PM

And he can chase Stafford, Rodgers and Cutler for years

Jared Max · 4:58 PM

As a Vikings fan, nothing would make me happier

Jared Max · 4:58 PM

I'd buy a Michael Sam jersey immediately

Cyd Zeigler · 4:58 PM

Gosh, it could really solve a couple of their problems.

Jared Max · 4:58 PM

This brings up a good point: WHERE WILL MICHAEL SAM'S JERSEY SALES RANK?

Jared Max · 4:59 PM

Yeah, Vikes could appear all fair and progressive by drafting Sam. They'd prob do it just to douse flames on their Kluwe debacle

Cyd Zeigler · 4:59 PM

When he's drafted? Top 10

Jared Max · 4:59 PM

A true indicator of how sports fans feel about Michael Sam will be seen in jersey sales

Cyd Zeigler · 4:59 PM

well great chatting, Jared

Cyd Zeigler · 5:00 PM

Jason Collins was team's No. 1 jersey sales in days after he came out

Jared Max · 5:00 PM

You too, Cyd. I have that shovel here waiting for you. Got about 8 inches of snow outside. Fluffy

Cyd Zeigler · 5:00 PM

Ha ha. Mmmmmmm - I need to go turn on the AC ;)

Jared Max · 5:00 PM

Enjoy that, Cyd. Thanks to all for hanging out with us

Cyd Zeigler · 5:01 PM

ok guys, adios!

Jared Max · 5:01 PM

Shalom!

Cyd Zeigler · 5:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tom Lorenzo

“Thanks so much for doing this! Fantastic conversation!”

Cyd Zeigler · 5:01 PM

thanks for joining, tom!

Forum · 25

Forum· 25 comments

7,838 visitors

Tawkers AdminFeb 12, 2014, 6:31 PM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Blake IanFeb 13, 2014, 2:21 PM

Have ya'll seen this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olc5C4SXAYM#t=68

Trey WilliamsonFeb 13, 2014, 3:53 PM

It's ridiculous that something like this still needs to be such a big deal! Is he a great football player?? Is he breaking any laws? Then what else matters?

Blake IanFeb 13, 2014, 4:06 PM

Did you guys se that Dale Hansen vid? The most interesting point is how much concerned people are with this than players who have committed like actual heinous crimes! haha

Trey WilliamsonFeb 13, 2014, 4:09 PM

Good point guys, I didn't mean this has no value as news, I only meant that people's shock or questioning whether its ok is what is ridiculous

Tom LorenzoFeb 13, 2014, 4:11 PM

I know it's speculation, but do you think there are more Jonathan Vilmas in the NFL than there are Malcolm Smiths? Or do you think the Vilmas of the NFL are in the minority?

Dave BensonFeb 13, 2014, 4:22 PM

Were you guys surprised by how awesome Metta World Peace's commentary was? His utter lack of concern over the issue was kind of refreshing, right?

Lana JayFeb 13, 2014, 4:27 PM

Can you elaborate on sam's singing voice please? Ha.

Michael HauptmanFeb 13, 2014, 4:28 PM

<-- straight man who's looked.. curious how i stacked up. answer is not well...

Tom LorenzoFeb 13, 2014, 4:29 PM

I never understood what there is to "handle."

Dave BensonFeb 13, 2014, 4:31 PM

Yo Jared. I'm not sure if this is a sore subject, but what happened at ESPN? You were all over the place and then you were gone. Please tell me it had nothing to do with you coming out.

Tom LorenzoFeb 13, 2014, 4:42 PM

How involved was Jason Collins in Michael Sam's decision to come out?

Dave BensonFeb 13, 2014, 4:46 PM★ Spotlighted

Did you guys hear about that Kent State wrestler who got suspended for his anti-gay Tweets about Michael Sam? Was that a fair punishment?

Tom LorenzoFeb 13, 2014, 4:52 PM★ Spotlighted

The Lakers released a PSA after Kobe Bryant was "caught" making a gay slur. It's very much about image.

Tom LorenzoFeb 13, 2014, 5:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Thanks so much for doing this! Fantastic conversation!

Shane SnipesFeb 18, 2014, 2:16 AM

good to read this after. thanks for the tawk

Jason AndrewsFeb 18, 2014, 8:54 AM

So does anyone think its a problem if A GUY IS TURNED ON IN THE SHOWER ROOM?

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