RT

A Little R&R

Oct 3, 2013

RM
Stage· 271 messages
Oct 3, 2013

Rachel McDonnel returns to her Tawk about the psychology of douchebaggery...but this time, she's bringing answers! We all have to deal with douchebags in our lives, from the back-biters and manipulators to full-on psycopathic manifestations like narcissism and antisocial personality disorder. But what can we do, right? Well, there are solutions - or at least ways to keep ourselves from getting enmeshed in their self-imposed drama. Come find out how!

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:00 AM

Hello everyone :)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:01 AM

Before we start if you want us to see your comments press the thumbs up button and Rebecca and I can spotlight them :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

Helloo and welcome to everyone!
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“A little R&R with R&R - what could be better?”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

Sorry - I forgot to hit refresh when the timer ran down!
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:01 AM

haha no worries I do that too :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

Hi, Rachel, How are you?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

Audience?
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:02 AM

I'm good. Thanks for having me for some R & R :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

Thanks for being here- sorry for the short-notice rescheduling.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:02 AM

no problem we have both been equally crazy busy lately I'd say. on that note I am tired tonight but I am going to rally :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

Good! !
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

Oh, dear, i lost half of my comment.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

Me, too, Away we go!
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:03 AM

haha a ghost comment
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:03 AM

I'm ready when you are :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:04 AM

Alright, so, we're here today because we've already acknowledged the prevalence of Douchebags in the world (DBs).
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

Reference: The Psychology of Douchebaggery w/ Jordan Birnbaum and Rachel McDonnel.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:05 AM

yes DBs are everywhere it seems
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

Because there ARE SO MANY DBs, we need to know what to do about that.
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Rachel McDonnell · 1:06 AM

right I mean it is hard to deal with these people and a lot of us have to deal with these difficult people on a regular basis
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“This is already getting awfully close to ethnic cleansing.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:06 AM

whether it be personal lives and/or in the workplace
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

Ha HA! Robin, no, we won't hurt them, we just need to know how to maneuver around them. Like potholes.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:07 AM

haha yes no ethnic cleansing involved lol.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:07 AM

we just want a way to peaceful co-exist or find a way to not let these people effect us negatively
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Rachel McDonnell · 1:07 AM

which can happen
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

I'm not sure I believe that, Rachel - tell me more!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“However, sometimes it is hard to steer clear of DBs.”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

That's what I'm sayin' Julie!
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Rachel McDonnell · 1:08 AM

ok so first I think we should define DB again we are talking about anyone who is manipulative, selfish, ego-centric, and self-serving
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Rachel McDonnell · 1:09 AM

right Julie, so I think the first step for people is to recognize how to spot these people so that they can effectively prepare themselves
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Rachel McDonnell · 1:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Especially when they are relatives :-)”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:09 AM

Anyone who looks like this: http://www.cracked.com/funny-420-douchebags/
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“So by DBs we mean narcissists.”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:10 AM

Um, it seems so, Narcissists are the DBs of DBs.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:10 AM

@Robin narcissism is yes what we are getting at
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Another definition for DB: Congress.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:10 AM

I think narcissistic people are considered "Extreme Douchebags"
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Rachel McDonnell · 1:11 AM

They sort of taking to a whole new level of manipulation
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:11 AM

Ha ha, Rachel. Is that a clinical term? "Extreme Douchebags"
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:11 AM

yes I just coined the term lol ;)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:11 AM

@Jordan omg yes Congress applies!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:12 AM

It's copyrighted! It's archived on this Tawk!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“Personally, I dislike the term ( is that too serious a comment )”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Simon is there a term you prefer?”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:12 AM

haha yes I get royalties :D
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:13 AM

@ simon the term douchebag?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“wanker is my personal go to term”

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Rachel McDonnell · 1:13 AM

wanker is better lol
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:13 AM

"Extreme Wankery" - a criminal offense in the UK.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“Isn't douchebag kinda sexist?”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:14 AM

Simon, yes, a little. But so is wanker.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“There's scumbag and scumbagette.”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:14 AM

lol, Rick. I love it!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:14 AM

We're creating a Tawkers lexicon.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:14 AM

scumbagette lol! I don't know if it is sexist I think I could call a male or female the term
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“Seriously, narcissism is well on its way to destroying the Western world as we know it”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

That's precisely the point, Simon.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

These people are everywhere, and normal people need to learn how to deal with them. Thay make our lives more difficult.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:15 AM

@Simon I agree and the individualistic society we live in only strengthens the idea that narcissism or being extremely selfish over other pays off... that is the world we unfortunately live in
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“Tawxicon!”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:16 AM

And I think overall it is important to stop rewarding this sort of manipulative, self-serving behavior... especially in the workplace.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“Folks Simon wrote the script for that vid you see on the tawkers home page with the little green and blue guys”

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Rachel McDonnell · 1:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“shucks”

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Rachel McDonnell · 1:17 AM

awesome Simon! :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:17 AM

Nice, Simon! Glad to know you!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Reality shows are fluffing up ordinary (or less than ordinary) people and turning them into "stars". That messes with people's heads.”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:17 AM

That IS happening.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:18 AM

@Robin I agree.. now days anyone could be a "star." more than a little disconcerning those "reality" shows
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Unfortunately, the higher ups LOVE douchbags!”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:18 AM

So- work. We all have to work. And there is always at least one office DB.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:18 AM

How can you keep these assholes from ruining your career - or at least the better part of your waking hours?
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:19 AM

@Julie that is true... depending on the job, this is true for corporate business mostly. But it is in fact the opposite these DBs are attracted to those positions of "power" and they use their "skills
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:19 AM

" to climb the ladder of success
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:20 AM

Rebecca, I think that first people need to recognize who these DBs are and steer clear of them if you can
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:20 AM

if you must interact with them, know going into it that they are manipulative by nature and will look for ways to either befriend you or get to your weaknesses
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:20 AM

you need to guard yourself around these people, emotionally
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:20 AM

befriend you AND get to your weakness.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:21 AM

yes you are right, usually both :p
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:21 AM

and sometimes it is necessary to "play the game
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:22 AM

with these people. Narcissists usually also have very low self-esteem that they are trying very hard to counter-act by "acting" tough and brave and "all that"
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:23 AM

They need others to "feed" their egos. They use everyone to that end.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“We hope they have low self esteem”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

Simon, the thing is, they often don't even realize. If they're far along the N spectrum, they have deluded themselves to dangerous levels.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Narcissists say what they need to say to get what they need in the moment. The next moment is irrelevant.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:24 AM

yes so if you want to make your work experience with them better one option is to play into that and find a way for them to feel good about themselves.. while not letting your self-worth or esteem be negatively affected
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

That sounds like psycopathy. Scary.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“You can't be in business - particularly my business, media - without a constant stream of DBs.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:25 AM

*sigh. So true, Rick.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:25 AM

They're in education, too. Like we need that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Sometimes I think all we can do is avoid and tolerate.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:25 AM

I think narcissism and psychopathy have quite a few things in common. the truth is many narcissists were raised by parents who also were and they were also rewarded for this kind of behavior so much that they found it beneficial to become manipulativ
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:26 AM

somewhere along the way these people learned that being selfish was something completely acceptable
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

And they have lots of practice, so they're good at it! 10,000 hours and you're an expert!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

I think that is some number of cases they don't even know they're selfish. They feel shorted, so they feel entitles.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

entitled.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:27 AM

and they learn too that "bullying" people into doing what they want often works. us kind hearted well meaning people are just like we want things go smoothly
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

Many suffer from other problems that include depression, and depression makes you very selfish because you can't see past your own pain.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“They have broken-brain high esteem.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

Yeah - we're all saying the same thing. :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“It's kind of psychotic because they aren't aware nor do they care about others feelings.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Sigh... yeah I work with a person like that. Power is a drug”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:29 AM

So, Julie, what do you do about that?
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:29 AM

I agree Robin it is I overlap the two in my mind
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:29 AM

working with these people is a tough situation
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:29 AM

I am sure we have all had to work closely with one DB or another
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“I think narcissism is more of a societal issue.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“Society as a whole has become completely self-serving”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

Simon, I was talking to a friend the other day - and we're both DONMs (Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers) and she keeps running in to narcissists in her personal life
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

and she thinks that the 40s and 50s made a generation of narcissists and that got passed down.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

The Boomers are in charge now, so it has translated to societal values.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:31 AM

(i.e., we're effed?)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Unfortunately, she is part of my "team" so there is no removing myself from the situation.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:31 AM

I think narcissism is more prevalent in individualistic societies vs. collectivist societies. But narcissism is still a personality trait that people would be born with irregardless of where they live. I think it is the societies that reward this
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:31 AM

That's tough, Julie.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:31 AM

And probably true, Rachel.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:31 AM

that have more
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:32 AM

@Rebecca, that is an interesting theory
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:32 AM

the boomers and this increase in narcissism hm.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

So, the number one bit of advice for handling situations with narcissists is to just turn tail. Find a different job. Don't interact.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:33 AM

Unfortunately, it's not always possible (see: Julie).
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:33 AM

Yes if you are like Julie, finding a way to co-exist with the DB is something that has to happen. in this case there are a few things you can do
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:34 AM

"play the game" do your work diligently and try not to let them interfere, if that doesn't work find a way to "stroke their ego"
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:34 AM

enough to get them off your back
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“I have found that if I can somehow spin the situation around and make the proposed changes appear to be in line with her opinion, it usually works out for me.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:34 AM

but don't let anything they say are do affect who you are. I think that is the hardest part when trying to play that game with these types of people they are good at what they do, manipulating
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

Exactly!
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:35 AM

yes or find a way for them to come up with a solution or idea... something small like that can make a world of difference in your work environment
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:35 AM

the more their opinion feels validated the happier they will be
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:35 AM

Oh, but there's the rub. Man, it just galls me to do that.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“However, sometimes I get tired of playing the game :-)”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“I do think we can learn to feed DBs without poking the bear, as it were.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“And by feed I mean work with them.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

Do tell, Robin.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Sounds awful, but think of them as mentally ill. It takes patience. It takes thick skin.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:36 AM

it does me too... I am not saying I am good at this (mostly because I am a highly emotive person) but it is better than playing that other game - which includes you two playing petty tricks or games on each other
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

That's true, RObin. But the trick is to remember that they're mentally ill - and can't be cured. They will not seek treatment...because nothing is ever wrong with them.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:37 AM

I think of it this way. Think of yourself as a mirror with these people... everything they are saying or feeling towards you is usually a reflection of how miserable they feel
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

Yes!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

It's not you at all.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:38 AM

yes narcissists in particular are very good at convincing themselves that everyone else is the problem.. not them
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:38 AM

yes! I think that is the first thing for people to know about DBs... it's not you, it's them!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

It's also a reflection (sometimes) of how they think YOU feel about THEM. So, if they think that you think they're wonderful, things go more smoothly.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Patience and thick skin are acquired. We're not born with them. Knowing that they're going to anger you is half the battle. Learning to expect it at least takes away some of the feelings of being ambushed by their douche baggery.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“Guys, it's been real, but I have a world to rule.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“I'll definitely host a talk. It won't be about narcissism. It will be about something more narcissistic”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“I do believe they're terribly broken on the inside. Terribly low self-esteem.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

And that's the saddest part of all - because by adding the Narcissistic layer, they preclude getting better. :/
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“I'm not good at dealing with DBs. I have a long history of telling them to fuck off.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

I would like a pocket-sized Rick to carry around with me and pull out when necessary. ;)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:40 AM

oh yes miscommunication is a huge part Rebecca! I think narcissists were raised to not communicate effectively in the first place so it is no surprise that they would have the same lack of / or deceptive communication skills in adulthood.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“I have done that too, Rick. Unfortunately he was an uncle by marriage.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Rick, me too. It's never served me. You?”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

That's a big problem, too. Rachel, we talked about the futility of confronting them.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:41 AM

Makes for some awkward family situations I bet Julie
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

We have precisely ZERO examples of it being effective.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

EXCEPT! Oh wait! I HAVE ONE!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

My friend, the DONM, actually did confront her mother. Holy crap, it's working. It's been a year, and she has drawn clear boundaries and doesn't let her mom cross them.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:43 AM

so she decided to avoid contact with the narcissist in her life?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

I'm impressed. But her mom isn't too far along the spectrum - she is not malignant.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

SHe has decided to manage contact with the narcissist.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

And standing her ground is effective.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:43 AM

hhm. yeah it's like walking a tight rope I think
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:44 AM

My parents are malignants, and I'm avoiding. That's the only safe way.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:44 AM

I personally have a friend who is dating one... and I am sad to say I had to limit my contact with my friend immensely because of this other person.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Narcissists can't exist in the same room.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:45 AM

@Robin haha! I am using that joke! :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

My parents are married narcissists, but they both have other disorders. My dad is a psycopath and mom has BPD. So she can be the Beta and he can be the alpha and they can be codependent.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“You must lay down the law with a DB otherwise you will be a doormat”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

I agree, Seth. But they are sneaky bastards. And if they are malignant, they will come get you in some crazy way.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:46 AM

so sad to hear Rebecca :( and what's worse they have each other to feed off ... they accept it in themselves and eachother
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:46 AM

yes some of these people are master manipulators. I mean it is unreal the lengths some of these people go to sometimes
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

Well, they're stuck - neither can call the other's bullshit. So they can have each other.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Speaking of good books "The Crazy Makers"”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Does the FL "stand your ground" law apply to DBs?”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“That law is so lenient here in FL, it might Jordan”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

LOL, Jordan!
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:47 AM

well the government is shut down so sure JB. lol.(although you know me, peace loving hippie, could never condone hurting someone else - DB or not)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“You've to shutdown a narcissist...kind of like our government”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

But HOW can you do that without making your own life suck?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

That's what we're here for tonight.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:48 AM

Crazy Makers is a great book, check it out... it's all about how to avoid or detox yourself from those "negative" people,
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“The last thing a DB wants is a fight...they tend to choose the path of least resistance”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

But again, they are SNEAKY.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:49 AM

well it's simple if you can avoid at all costs
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:49 AM

if you can't play the game to make your work life better
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:49 AM

but don't forget to remind yourself that you are doing so to make your workplace better not because you necessarily believe what you are saying to these people
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

It's harder when they are in your personal life.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:50 AM

it is hard for non-manipulators to remember not to get sucked INTO the game
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

Work, yeah, that's hard and can be detrimental, but personal life...that gives them lots of chances to find your weak spots.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:50 AM

yes personal life is a whole other story
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:51 AM

first off, if you are dating one of these people I'd advice against it
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:51 AM

family is the toughest
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:51 AM

in this situation because many people feel they can't "disown" family or avoid family members
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

When Ns are a part of your family it makes things hard. Because family is part of your self-concept.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Rebecca, they do try to find your weak spots.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:52 AM

that must have been a very difficult environment to live in as a child Rebecca... and escape with no narcissism yourself.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

And Ns like to make up stories and mold that self-concept in nasty ways.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Narcissist, kind of like animals, can sense fear and weakness, when you stand up to them it shows them that it's game over.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

Everyone is a little narcissistic.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“We're born as narcissists. It's necessary for our survival. But in healthy people, somewhere between ages 7 and 10, it begins to dissipate and empathy toward others kicks in. Or not.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

But I'm doing alright. It took me until 30, but I think things are working out well. My therapist says so, at least. ;D
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“It'll be a tough one time "chat" you've with a DB, but do it right one time and you'll never have to do it again”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

Seth, give us a transcript. Is it like a "Come to Jesus" talk?
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:53 AM

I would disagree Robin just because I have studied personality traits but I also think what you are saying goes more towards nature vs. nurture and I am a huge believer that a person's environment mostly molds who they become and what personality
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:53 AM

traits become strongest in that person
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

Like, "I see you, I know what you are. We don't do that here."
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

I think my mom chose narcissism in her late 20s.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:55 AM

haha well yeah that could get dangerous Seth or worse you could end up behaving just like them trying to "one up" them
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Here's the thing, tho, Rach. DNA provides the gun. Personality loads the gun. Environment shoots the gun.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:55 AM

@Robin I completely agree.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

I can remember her being different when I was little. But in order to protect herself (she's married to an abusive psycopath), she CHOSE to create the N layer.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

I think Narcissism is a choice.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:56 AM

and when societies and childhood environments rewarding Narcissism more and more.. is it any wonder we have more and more people acting that way?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Just wondering since the govt. is shutdown, does that mean the NSA is not in our Tawkers' chat?”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

Ha! They'll save it and read it later.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“I have a 19month old. Rebecca - you too, right? Selfish little buggers, aren't they?”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:56 AM

@Seth no I heard the NSA is still working but the people supposed to keep them in check are laid off for the time being lol. that's a whole other tawk but WOW.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

:) Yes, Robin. Id all the way.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“The NSA is very protective of DBs.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:57 AM

@JB I think they hire them exclusively now lol
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

Indeed. That's not as funny when you really think about it... ;P
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Well, for R & R this was some interesting stuff!”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:58 AM

it's not rebecca but all I can do is laugh right now because really?
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:58 AM

so in your personal life I think it becomes a matter of deciding how much you want that DB in your life
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

I don't. Peace out, DB.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:59 AM

if you do want them in your life you should limit your time with them and make sure not to internalize any of their negative crap (for lack of a better term) into yourself
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 1:59 AM

good! :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

So, really, I did go see my therapist last night, and that came up. I'm done. My life is better without sick people who can't be fixed. I am not a crab - I do not want to be dragged back down in the bucket.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

It's okay to walk away from a situation you can't fix.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Totally okay.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:00 AM

Well exactly! I think that is right Rebecca! Why waste your time trying to make others happy that will never be..
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Well I feel better knowing I'm not alone in my DB despair...”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Don't worry, Jordan - their time will come.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Yeah, Rebecca!!”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:00 AM

do you feel more empowered after you did walk away?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

(I mean, this isn't supposed to be about me, I'm just sharing this example - because it's hard to walk away.)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“It is hard but you have to keep your sanity.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Well, I'm moving to Georgia. And I feel fucking fantastic about that. I mean, really. I'm going to go build myself the community I want.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“You go, Rebecca.”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:02 AM

that is so amazing! I am so happy for you! :D
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Get the LED out!”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:02 AM

yes maybe we can all visit! Will there be live music on the corners :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

Thanks, guys. I feel all wierd now that this became the Rebecca's empowerment show, but thanks. :)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:03 AM

I am seriously so happy for you Rebecca! :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

Well, if you have a passion, you are invited out to give a weekend workshop on it at the new CLC. So yes - please visit!
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“If giving each other permission to walk away from a toxic douche bag comes from this, it was a hugely successful tawk. IMHO.”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“Georgia, Geeeeooorrrrrrgia - that was my Ray Charles impression, sigh”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Thanks R&R”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:04 AM

if I can find time in my crazy schedule sometime this year I would love that! :)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Julie Myers

“Thanks R & R for enlightment and empowerment :-)”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

DBs ARE toxic. That cannot be stressed enough. They make your life suck more than it needs to. And you can't fix them. So walk away! That's our lesson for the day!
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:05 AM

yes that is our lesson with DBs --> LESS is better ;)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:05 AM

Happy Birthday Michael in the audience! :D
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“After this Tawk, I'm anti-DB and that's final!”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

And also, Rachel is the most thorough and organized Tawker there is. No kidding. Sorry we kind of got off-track - your prep work was...something I could reference for a research paper. :)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:06 AM

our mission was successful then Seth haha! :)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:06 AM

lol thanks! :)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:06 AM

guess grad school is paying off? lol
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

Michael, Happy Birthday - and 31 is sexy. (My hubby's 31 and RAR!!!!) ;)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Lots of fun, you all. Next time!!”

RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:07 AM

yes thanks for coming Robin! :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“No better lesson. DBs are vampires. Don't let them into the house... !”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

Thanks to everyone. Too bad well all bonded over our shared experiences with DBs, but there were lots of great points made.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:08 AM

haha yes, proving that this is a universal problem lol
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:08 AM

yes this was a lot of fun. Thanks for coming everyone and thanks for tawking with me Rebecca! :)
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:08 AM

p.s. if you get here after the tawk hit the scroll up button to get to the top of the tawk
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

@ Michael: DBs s are douchebags. Specifically narcissists. They suck. Get them out of your life.
RM

Rachel McDonnell · 2:09 AM

A+ recap Rebecca! :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

Thanks again everyone. Good night!