Katie Klabusich

Host

Body Policing: Hit From All Sides

Jun 6, 2014·272 visitors

Amanda Levitt

Cohost

Stage· 242 messages

Jun 6, 2014

Body shaming has been around since, well, forever. With outspoken activists like Amanda Levitt of http://FatBodyPolitics.com challenging cultural norms and perceptions, however, the public interaction level is heightened.nWhich means, here come the trolls.nWhy is it that SO MANY people think another person's weight is their business?? Trolling is a part of online life; but the #NotYourGoodFatty activists get a disproportionate amount of heat. We'll talk community and allyship. Join us!

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

Hi, everyone! Thanks for coming to "Body Policing: Hit From All Sides!" (new ProTip: there’s a mobile app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tawkers/id791417999?mt=8 )

Amanda Levitt · 12:01 AM

Hey everyone!

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

Real quick, if you’re new to Tawkers, Amanda and I will be chatting on the left. And if you’re signed in (it only takes two minutes to set up a profile!), you can add comments/questions on the right. Interrupt any time with questions!

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jeni Burns

“Hello!”

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

Also, definitely use the “arrow” icons to share comments on social media & ask people you know will dig the discussion to join in.

Katie Klabusich · 12:02 AM

Before we start, my tawks are a safe space. Ask questions, share — but no abusive language will be tolerated. If you need to mute someone, click the “ … “ under the thumbs in their comment or click on their profile.

Katie Klabusich · 12:02 AM

With the disclaimers out of the way, "Body Policing: Hit From All Sides!" Thanks so much for joining me, Amanda!

Katie Klabusich · 12:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“Hi! I was able sneak in for a few minutes <3”

Katie Klabusich · 12:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from cherie rolfe

“Hi, everybody!”

Amanda Levitt · 12:03 AM

Thank you for having me!

Amanda Levitt · 12:03 AM

This is going to be super fun!

Katie Klabusich · 12:03 AM

One sentence in particular from your blog made me want to have you on for a live chat. I love the way you approach the issues you’re passionate about.

Katie Klabusich · 12:03 AM

"In #NotYourGoodFatty - The Performing Fatty” you said: "I’m not interested in performing fatness in a way that is socially acceptable to make other people comfortable.” (http://fatbodypolitics.com/2014/04/04/notyourgoodfatty-and-the-performing-fatty

Katie Klabusich · 12:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“Hi”

Katie Klabusich · 12:04 AM

Much of your platform (& mine as well) is about breaking down cultural norms and stigmas. What about body policing and body politics makes that especially important?

Amanda Levitt · 12:04 AM

Most bodies have societal expectations for how they will perform in the space they take up.

Amanda Levitt · 12:05 AM

That doesn't just include fat people but people regardless of identity.

Katie Klabusich · 12:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“I've noticed it doesnt seem to matter even if fat people are being "good" .People that prejudiced are going to find another way to hate that person.”

Amanda Levitt · 12:05 AM

The space marginalized people take up whether due to body size, race, class, ability, gender or sexual orientation have a physical manifestation of how they are expected to perform.

Katie Klabusich · 12:06 AM

Yes. "We'll support you if you're the 'good' XX"

Amanda Levitt · 12:06 AM

So for me as a fat person it is about challenging the way fatness is suppose to be embodied.

Amanda Levitt · 12:07 AM

Yes and the "good fatty" is really about making qualifications for people to have access to humanity, but it is given on a conditional basis.

Katie Klabusich · 12:07 AM

I was basically in awe of your hashtag.

Katie Klabusich · 12:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Asam Ahmad

“Hi there thanks for inviting me to this convo. Excited to learn more and hear about strategies for resistance”

Amanda Levitt · 12:08 AM

In reality to be a "good fatty" it would mean no longer being fat. So this idea of being "healthy" is really harmful as it relies on oppressed people conforming to a dominant ideal.

Katie Klabusich · 12:08 AM

Right. Our ideal of what "healthy" looks like.

Katie Klabusich · 12:08 AM

btw -- in my thinnest years, I wasn't healthy and I knew it.

Katie Klabusich · 12:09 AM

It was because I couldn't afford to eat well. I get really angry at people who look at me and assume I'm healthy b/c of my weight. Nope, it turns out.

Katie Klabusich · 12:09 AM

Our ideas of health are really fucked up.

Katie Klabusich · 12:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hello! finally i can see! lol”

Amanda Levitt · 12:09 AM

Yep and health really means someone has class status does not have a marginalized identity that creates a barrier from having access to health.

Katie Klabusich · 12:09 AM

I love that part of your platform -- breaking that down as well.

Katie Klabusich · 12:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“Yep it is a catch 22, even if I don't overeat it will always be assumed that I do and will never be believed and treated with respect until I look thin.”

Amanda Levitt · 12:10 AM

We think of health as something everyone can transcend to achieving. Ignoring that literature continually shows People of Color, poor people etc are more likely to live in communities where they cannot access health behavior.

Katie Klabusich · 12:10 AM

Word.

Katie Klabusich · 12:10 AM

I still cringe at the word "skinny" b/c of an entire childhood of teasing and have some poverty shaming issues left around that word. Was it a conscious decision to take hold of that word when you were becoming an activist?

Katie Klabusich · 12:11 AM

It's one thing to say "I'm going to break down stigma and embrace a word" and another to emotionally shoulder it.

Katie Klabusich · 12:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i've always looked the way i do,"over sized". and i am only now beginning to like it. worse thing i was told is that i looked like my mother.”

Amanda Levitt · 12:11 AM

Society also likes to pretend all fat people are white, middle class etc when in the US fat people are more likely to be poor and People of Color.

Katie Klabusich · 12:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i eat when i want,how i want,what i want. yes i have guilt pangs when i do but i am hungry,god damn it. it's taken a LONG time to get this far and feel that way”

Katie Klabusich · 12:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kytara Epps

“Hola folks”

Katie Klabusich · 12:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“I notice that the fat hate reddit usually trolls white women”

Amanda Levitt · 12:12 AM

I think at some point I wanted to stop letting shit bother me. I am fat. People are going to call me fat. I want to tell them to shove it. lol

Katie Klabusich · 12:13 AM

That's really amazingly brave.

Katie Klabusich · 12:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“*claps* nice one Amanda! :-)”

Katie Klabusich · 12:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from cherie rolfe

“In centuries being what is today considered "fat," was a sign of prosperity well-being. How things have changed.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:13 AM

You're inviting additional hate mail and bullshit just by saying it.

Katie Klabusich · 12:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“Something I've been thinking about lately is the extent to which our culture has successfully conflated "restraint" or asceticism with "goodness" (and of course the conflation of "restraint" with thin-ness)”

Katie Klabusich · 12:13 AM

KC -- that is an EXCELLENT observation!

Katie Klabusich · 12:14 AM

On everything, right? How restrained we are about weight, speech, sex, manners, everything!

Amanda Levitt · 12:14 AM

Who they troll really has a lot to do with who has more prominence in the community. Sadly fat community has reproduced a lot of social hierarchies including the erasure of People of Color.

Katie Klabusich · 12:14 AM

It wouldn't be an American community if it wasn't white dominated. -__-

Amanda Levitt · 12:15 AM

Because I see Women of Color get trolled to extents that I never have been. In and out of fat community.

Katie Klabusich · 12:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“Yep. On my list of summer projects is exploring the theological background of that and considering what it would mean to consider Divinity in abundance (I'm gonna not babble endlessly about this, Amanda is saying important stuff)”

Amanda Levitt · 12:16 AM

KC I get you. Capitalism tells us we need to have productive bodies. That means not having a fat bodies as we are labelled as unproductive.

Amanda Levitt · 12:16 AM

So showing restraint means being productive elsewhere.

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

Hi Asam! we met at the AMC planning mtg -- happy to connect w you in this space! am excited about building work to lift up marginalized people. + excited for Amanda's pres. at the Detroit Dance Street to Stage workshop

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

I hadn't even thought about that.

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

Restraint being tied to productivity.

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“Yep. I have a lot of thoughts about Capitalism as America's like...default God...and about practical deicide wrt that”

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“The irony is that, under American capitalism, it makes more sense to have cheap, unhealthy food. It's not cost-effective to provide real, healthy food when freeze-dried, sodium-filled fare will keep people alive.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

@Andrew -- for sure. Right back to the reality of poverty and what it means for health.

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“I think there's also a place where, for women in particular, being "attractive" is being productive”

Katie Klabusich · 12:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“Yeah a troll said I that my father was probably paying my rent and bills so i could sit around and get fat *rolls eyes*”

Amanda Levitt · 12:18 AM

Unless providing that food means people are not sick but that would also mean that we wouldn't have to use the medical industrial complex.

Katie Klabusich · 12:18 AM

How do we fight the really entrenched idea that health is a simple choice and that appearance is an indicator of that choice?

Amanda Levitt · 12:19 AM

Well as a grad student in sociology I think sociological literature really emphasizes it.

Katie Klabusich · 12:20 AM

word up on that!! and also, that appearance is people's personal business, and it's no one's place to police anyone's appearance - regardless of health or perceived health.

Amanda Levitt · 12:20 AM

It's funny that people think what I write online is so radical but literature backs it up.

Amanda Levitt · 12:21 AM

We've also had a huge push from the health, weight loss and media industries really pushing the idea that we all can transcend social constraints by choosing to do things differently.

Katie Klabusich · 12:21 AM

It's radical in the sense that you're pushing it into the public and cultural discourse.

Amanda Levitt · 12:21 AM

How we frame health is a bootstraps argument pure and simple.

Katie Klabusich · 12:21 AM

Everything looks like a choice in our society. You can choose to be and do anything, right?

Katie Klabusich · 12:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“if you feel good about yourself,who cares what size you are or what.how you look. thats what i tell myself. sometimes it works”

Amanda Levitt · 12:22 AM

Well there is that too. lol

Katie Klabusich · 12:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“But I don't think I chose to be a fat person.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:22 AM

Rachele -- of course not! That's just our perception about everything from income to education to health to appearance to sexuality.

Katie Klabusich · 12:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i didnt choose to be one either”

Katie Klabusich · 12:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“I might have *shrug*”

Amanda Levitt · 12:23 AM

One of the best explanations that I ever heard about the idea of choice is that while people may make choices in their every day lives they may not do them willingly.

Katie Klabusich · 12:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“Haha, no regrets! YOLO”

Katie Klabusich · 12:23 AM

Ok, THAT. Even if you did...it wouldn't be anyone else's business to tell you what they thought of your decision.

Amanda Levitt · 12:23 AM

Like I may not choose to go outside and take a walk but I may not live in a place where that is an option.

Katie Klabusich · 12:23 AM

Interesting. Your choices are affected by your options.

Amanda Levitt · 12:23 AM

Or at least where I cannot take one safely.

Katie Klabusich · 12:23 AM

Totally.

Katie Klabusich · 12:24 AM

Why is it with weight in particular that strangers feel they have a right to comment?

Amanda Levitt · 12:24 AM

And fat people have the right to exist regardless of how it happened.

Katie Klabusich · 12:24 AM

WORD. The only other situation I can think of where people feel those kinds of rights with strangers is pregnant people. The belly touching, etc.

Katie Klabusich · 12:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“Yeah, we run our society on this like...econ based conception of perfect free choice and lmao no”

Amanda Levitt · 12:25 AM

Bodies are under surveillance in general. People act like the bodies of other people are public property.

Amanda Levitt · 12:25 AM

It happens to so many people due to the identities they possess.

Amanda Levitt · 12:26 AM

I think fatness happens because we have a public discourse that says fatness is easily changed and fat people are a burden to society.

Katie Klabusich · 12:26 AM

Right. If you can change something, **I** should be able to tell you what I think about it.

Amanda Levitt · 12:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“How do we address these issues in a society in which pointing out hypocrisy so rarely works? I can think of famous white males who rail against fatness or refer to it simplistically, while themselves being fat.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“These people tend to focus on women or POCs or people in the underclass who are overweight, while ignoring their own body type, sometimes acquired through unhealthy conduct.”

Amanda Levitt · 12:27 AM

Personally I'm interested in challenging them to think differently. I realize that it is hard work but I'm so much more interested in getting a few people to think critically.

Amanda Levitt · 12:27 AM

Some people will never believe it and they won't because of the identities and privilege they have.

Katie Klabusich · 12:27 AM

It's the long view, but it's the only thing that fundamentally changes society.

Katie Klabusich · 12:27 AM

Well, we don't need everyone to not be an asshole. Just most people.

Katie Klabusich · 12:28 AM

;)

Katie Klabusich · 12:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“Right I get criticised for eating a kale, black bean and yam burrito?!?! And I just want to know wtf they eat.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“We appreciate that! Because I dont have resources to fight it the way I wish I could.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“I think also one of the ways to position yourself as "good fat person" is to be really hard on other fat people”

Amanda Levitt · 12:28 AM

Well and this is where subverting the conversation to a topic I think is more helpful may help.

Katie Klabusich · 12:28 AM

KC -- good point. That's true in a lot of policing/troll-able areas. When you criticize other people you're often looking for immunity from criticism.

Amanda Levitt · 12:28 AM

When ask what i eat I tend to talk about social or institutional issues.

Katie Klabusich · 12:29 AM

Redirection!

Katie Klabusich · 12:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hey,if politicians can redirect why cant we? right?”

Amanda Levitt · 12:29 AM

Refer them back to literature that shows unhealthy communities, due to social inequality, makes people unhealthy. Not due to biology.

Amanda Levitt · 12:29 AM

I'm more interested in using trolls as learning experiences for my readers than to give them my time.

Amanda Levitt · 12:30 AM

And by accepting their questions as valid through answering them I'm accepting the idea I need to account for what I eat or care what other people eat.

Katie Klabusich · 12:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i would rather be a fat person than a troll”

Amanda Levitt · 12:30 AM

lol

Amanda Levitt · 12:30 AM

Most trolls don't even know they are trolls.

Katie Klabusich · 12:30 AM

In your piece for Bitch Magazine...

Amanda Levitt · 12:31 AM

They are just *curious*

Katie Klabusich · 12:31 AM

which I've lost the link to and will grab in a minute...

Katie Klabusich · 12:31 AM

(terrible hosting)

Amanda Levitt · 12:31 AM

http://bitchmagazine.org/post/trolling-don%E2%80%99t-just-want-to-be-rude%E2%80%94they-want-power-over-us

Amanda Levitt · 12:31 AM

lol

Katie Klabusich · 12:31 AM

You said: (YAS!) "let’s talk about trolling for what it really is: disruptive behavior that seeks reinforce power over marginalized communities.

Katie Klabusich · 12:31 AM

The power issues that motivate trolling become especially obvious when you talk to fat-acceptance activists about their work online."

Katie Klabusich · 12:31 AM

This isn't limited to online spaces, obviously.

Katie Klabusich · 12:32 AM

YOu've talked about some online strategies; how do you handle the nonsense offline?

Katie Klabusich · 12:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“That is why I delete comments and dont respond.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“*touches wood*...i've yet to have a troll. of any kind.”

Amanda Levitt · 12:32 AM

When I'm going into spaces with my activist hat on I tend to pretend I'm about to do a really awesome performance.

Amanda Levitt · 12:33 AM

I've recently acquired a self care donut hair clip thing. I make sure I feel nice. etc

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

(Extra self care is a solid troll handling technique -- on and offline.)

Amanda Levitt · 12:34 AM

Most of the things offline have been incredibly tame. I've had one instance where I was at an event and I was surrounded by 10 people who were angry. I was with a friend but I just tried to stay calm.

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

How would you deal with body policing in cases where there are asymetric power relations in place?

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

Good question, Lucas!

Amanda Levitt · 12:35 AM

I think practicing responses to questions is the best thing to do. People always say the same shit. After a while I have been able to know what arguments people will say.

Amanda Levitt · 12:35 AM

I'm pretty relaxed with how I comment. I try to acknowledge the privileges and space I take up.

Amanda Levitt · 12:36 AM

Which means there are a lot of times I may not directly comment and say what someone said it wrong but I will try to subvert the conversation and make it more positive.

Katie Klabusich · 12:36 AM

What are your most common "canned" responses for people to internalize and carry with them?

Amanda Levitt · 12:37 AM

It normally involves health behaviors or food. So people always talk about how everyone has access to healthy foods and I just point how thats a lie, food deserts exist

Amanda Levitt · 12:38 AM

most people respond by saying "but can't you just grow them then" and I go off into a monologue about how everyone doesn't have a yard, the time, the money the physical ability to grow their own food.

Katie Klabusich · 12:38 AM

Or the time to go to the "good" grocery stores and farmers markets.

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

I can't tell you the last time I had free time to go to farmers markets when they were even accessible.

Amanda Levitt · 12:39 AM

Even the most comment arguments against fat positivity are boring. lol

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

Ha! That's how I'm getting about anti-choice stuff. ;)

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“Or the constant use of images of fat bodies to portray the mega-rich”

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

KC -- that hadn't even occurred to me. Damnit.

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“One of the things I struggle with most is people whose politics are otherwise aligned with mine, but who are just really not critical about body/health stuff.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“Lots of (women in particular) in my former abortion clinic and at my seminary constantly talking about how they need to lose weight”

Katie Klabusich · 12:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“It's really easy to not see if you haven't taught your brain to look for it”

Amanda Levitt · 12:40 AM

Well and that imagery not only erases poor people but also People of Color since the media portrays fat people as white and middle / upper class.

Katie Klabusich · 12:40 AM

Truth. That's why conversations and listening are so important.

Katie Klabusich · 12:40 AM

Yes, we're good at the broad sweeping erasure.

Amanda Levitt · 12:40 AM

With a lot of those conversations I just stay out of them now.

Katie Klabusich · 12:41 AM

Is that b/c of exhaustion or just picking your battles?

Amanda Levitt · 12:41 AM

I can't work 24/7 so I try to stay out of them unless people try to force my involvement. Then I just say obnoxious stuff to get them to stop.

Katie Klabusich · 12:41 AM

Word. You can only do what you can do.

Amanda Levitt · 12:41 AM

lol

Katie Klabusich · 12:42 AM

Exhaustion doesn't make for a good activist. :)

Amanda Levitt · 12:42 AM

Picking my battles. I'm more interested in challenging social institutions that harm fat people. I can't tell every person how to feel or live in their body.

Amanda Levitt · 12:42 AM

And i've found not being confrontational is a way to get people to think differently too.

Katie Klabusich · 12:43 AM

We've got about 100 people just listening and I would bet a fair number of them are would-be allies uncomfortable joining in. How can they be involved/helpful w/o co-opting conversations?

Amanda Levitt · 12:43 AM

A lot of people have never thought of a different way to think about their bodies so I try to give them a different way to think by living it.

Amanda Levitt · 12:44 AM

I think the best thing to do is not involve yourself in fat shaming or subvert conversations into something more positive.

Amanda Levitt · 12:44 AM

Talk positively about your own body and the bodies of others.

Katie Klabusich · 12:45 AM

Avoiding generalizations and not joining in on the jokes they already know aren't helpful?

Amanda Levitt · 12:45 AM

I also think reading what you can. Fat studies literature, books, blogs.

Amanda Levitt · 12:46 AM

Totally. Sometimes just not involving yourself can make people feel like what they said was inappropriate.

Katie Klabusich · 12:46 AM

Why don't people consider that those things exist? I think most people just don't think about body issues as a culture/political thing.

Amanda Levitt · 12:46 AM

I know people who aren't aware of my fat lady status who automatically think I want to talk about weight loss and when I just don't involve myself they stop.

Katie Klabusich · 12:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Living 400lbs

“Rachele, it's so odd to me how many people seem to believe that fat acceptance will make people fat.”

Amanda Levitt · 12:47 AM

Sometimes they get mad because we've been taught to socialize around hating our bodies. So they want to be my friend through hatred and that's depressing.

Katie Klabusich · 12:47 AM

Heh. Right? That's pervasive with a lot of issues. Education people about sex and they'll have it. Decriminalize drugs and people will use it. We think access = use/behavior across the board.

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“For me that always goes back to the whole mind/body dualism thing”

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

That's a great point -- in so many circles we're "supposed" to hate our bodies. Just being secure in your own skin is damn near a revolutionary act.

Amanda Levitt · 12:48 AM

We are taught at such a young age to socialize with others through fat hatred people unless people are presented with something different they aren't able to see it differently.

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

And we're ALL supposed to hate our bodies.

Katie Klabusich · 12:49 AM

So, criticizing a group people perceive as easy targets makes them feel better.

Amanda Levitt · 12:49 AM

Yes. And fat people and other identities. Anything that isn't considered normal.

Katie Klabusich · 12:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“You (your brain/soul) have to conquer your body (which is base and immoral)”

Katie Klabusich · 12:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“I would not be trolled if I had a weight loss blog”

Amanda Levitt · 12:50 AM

Yes. Because hatred works on a hierarchy. Those at the top need to fear being the people below them.

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

Truth.

Amanda Levitt · 12:50 AM

people need to be "re-wired" with progressive thinking that acknowledges everyones right to exist exactly, profoundly, as they are. we are taught the opposite in white/male/cis/ centric ideology

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

That never worked for me. Even when I was a teenager - just made me feel worse when I gave into the pressure to do it.

Amanda Levitt · 12:50 AM

So much Maya. So much.

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

Well, said.

Amanda Levitt · 12:50 AM

I think its more that bully culture creates social inclusion for the people who do it.

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“Absolutely Maya. But...how?”

Katie Klabusich · 12:51 AM

Yep. Totally. A supreme need to feel inside of a group.

Amanda Levitt · 12:51 AM

KC that's what we're here for. Pushing the boundaries and challenging that ideology.

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

YAS

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

*\o/*

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

KC Slack - with the work being done right here, right now -- every bit helps. through blogs, dances, conversations, however you do it -- every bit of advocating helps

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

TALKING TALKING TALKING

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

Not that I'm biased towards dialog...

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“<3<3<3 Yessssssss”

Amanda Levitt · 12:53 AM

Why I've really tried to build bridges between other communities. I want fat community to branch out and work with other social justice movements.

Katie Klabusich · 12:53 AM

Yes -- with the community building. Social justice issues aren't insulated.

Katie Klabusich · 12:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“question: are males less likely to talk about being fat than women? i've just noticed its mostly women talking here....”

Katie Klabusich · 12:53 AM

Amanda Levitt · 12:54 AM

If people start working as a united front, seeing how the way we are treated is so similar we can do so many amazing things.

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

**It doesn't have the stigma to be male and fat that it does to be female (or female presenting) and fat.

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Living 400lbs

“Rachele - I am told that many still-fat weight loss bloggers get trolled as well, for being "insufficiently successful". :P”

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

I'm in for amazing things!

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“I am 1000% in for amazing things”

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

Amanda - super word up to that.

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

In fact, I can't believe we're running out of time. Hopefully Amanda will come back for another chat. ;)

Amanda Levitt · 12:54 AM

Women do have more pressure to embody heteronormative beauty ideals.

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachele Rad Fat Vegan

“Yes amazing things!”

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kytara Epps

“Definitely Amanda. When I think about how various marginalized bodies are treated in the medical industry ... I think that's a great common ground to talk about community building”

Katie Klabusich · 12:55 AM

Fuck heteronormative beauty ideals

Amanda Levitt · 12:55 AM

So fat women have the added intersection of gender.

Amanda Levitt · 12:55 AM

We also see that fat Women of Color are HUGE targets of racist fat phobia.

Katie Klabusich · 12:55 AM

Additional layers

Amanda Levitt · 12:56 AM

A lot of the troll message I've collected are incredibly racist so the undertones of racism are there and present.

Katie Klabusich · 12:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kytara Epps

“gosh i remember all the fatphobic articles by Black media outlets that were saying how Fat Black women are runining out community”

Amanda Levitt · 12:57 AM

So much Kytara. In most instances we can see how an intersectional perspective creates a stronger argument for our work.

Katie Klabusich · 12:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Living 400lbs

“Women are discriminated against in the workplace at lower BMIs than men. http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/reports/Rudd_Policy_Brief_Weight_Bias.pdf”

Katie Klabusich · 12:58 AM

Ugh. The work place. That's a whole other tawk.

Amanda Levitt · 12:58 AM

Totally. We've also see that with the Let's Move Campaign there has been a specific look at Black mothers due to Michelle Obama pushing it.

Katie Klabusich · 12:58 AM

We're almost out of time and I want to close my side out with Amanda’s words b/c they’re perfect:

Katie Klabusich · 12:58 AM

"We desperately need media that deconstructs the way fat people are dehumanized and pathologized in our society. The backlash from trolls to Fattitude and This is Thin Privilege…”

Amanda Levitt · 12:59 AM

Oh poo. We need more time!

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

“…the backlash helps build a momentum to support our work. The trolls want us to stop existing. But we refuse to be shut up."

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

Yes! We'll just have to do this again!

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

You're welcome back anytime, obviously. ;)

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“yuk i hate BMI's. same thing with "diets". dont use em,dont need em”

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“but thats just me”

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from KC Slack

“You are all super and I love you!”

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i see apart 2 on the horizon!”

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Living 400lbs

“Lucy - Agree that BMI is just height/weight. But researchers often use it to categorize by height/weight.”

Katie Klabusich · 1:00 AM

I'd love to do a media chat!

Amanda Levitt · 1:00 AM

We need to talk about trolls! Use them to learn who we're fighting against. :)

Katie Klabusich · 1:00 AM

Yes! I'll bug you about Body Policy Part II!

Amanda Levitt · 1:01 AM

YAY!

Katie Klabusich · 1:01 AM

Thank you SO much for spending an hour with me -- with us!

Katie Klabusich · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“great chat you two. thank you :-)”

Katie Klabusich · 1:01 AM

And thank you to the seriously smart chat group who came and contributed. <3

Amanda Levitt · 1:01 AM

Thank you everyone.

Katie Klabusich · 1:01 AM

And thank you to the "listeners!"

Katie Klabusich · 1:02 AM

thank you both + peace and love to all in the room

Katie Klabusich · 1:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“same to you maya”

Katie Klabusich · 1:02 AM

Lucy: :-) thank you <3

Forum · 68

Forum· 68 comments

272 visitors

Tawkers AdminMay 22, 2014, 12:45 AM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:01 AM

Hello!

Jeni BurnsJun 6, 2014, 12:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Hello!

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:02 AM★ Spotlighted

Hi! I was able sneak in for a few minutes <3

cherie rolfeJun 6, 2014, 12:02 AM★ Spotlighted

Hi, everybody!

Andrew DaarJun 6, 2014, 12:04 AM★ Spotlighted

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:05 AM★ Spotlighted

I've noticed it doesnt seem to matter even if fat people are being "good" .People that prejudiced are going to find another way to hate that person.

Asam AhmadJun 6, 2014, 12:07 AM★ Spotlighted

Hi there thanks for inviting me to this convo. Excited to learn more and hear about strategies for resistance

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:08 AM★ Spotlighted

hello! finally i can see! lol

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:09 AM★ Spotlighted

Yep it is a catch 22, even if I don't overeat it will always be assumed that I do and will never be believed and treated with respect until I look thin.

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:10 AM★ Spotlighted

i've always looked the way i do,"over sized". and i am only now beginning to like it. worse thing i was told is that i looked like my mother.

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:11 AM★ Spotlighted

i eat when i want,how i want,what i want. yes i have guilt pangs when i do but i am hungry,god damn it. it's taken a LONG time to get this far and feel that way

Kytara EppsJun 6, 2014, 12:12 AM★ Spotlighted

Hola folks

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:12 AM★ Spotlighted

I notice that the fat hate reddit usually trolls white women

cherie rolfeJun 6, 2014, 12:13 AM★ Spotlighted

In centuries being what is today considered "fat," was a sign of prosperity well-being. How things have changed.

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:13 AM★ Spotlighted

*claps* nice one Amanda! :-)

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:13 AM★ Spotlighted

Something I've been thinking about lately is the extent to which our culture has successfully conflated "restraint" or asceticism with "goodness" (and of course the conflation of "restraint" with thin-ness)

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:15 AM

people love to have a labels put on them and to put labels on others

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:15 AM★ Spotlighted

Yep. On my list of summer projects is exploring the theological background of that and considering what it would mean to consider Divinity in abundance (I'm gonna not babble endlessly about this, Amanda is saying important stuff)

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:17 AM★ Spotlighted

Yep. I have a lot of thoughts about Capitalism as America's like...default God...and about practical deicide wrt that

Andrew DaarJun 6, 2014, 12:17 AM★ Spotlighted

The irony is that, under American capitalism, it makes more sense to have cheap, unhealthy food. It's not cost-effective to provide real, healthy food when freeze-dried, sodium-filled fare will keep people alive.

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:17 AM★ Spotlighted

I think there's also a place where, for women in particular, being "attractive" is being productive

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:17 AM★ Spotlighted

Yeah a troll said I that my father was probably paying my rent and bills so i could sit around and get fat *rolls eyes*

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:21 AM★ Spotlighted

if you feel good about yourself,who cares what size you are or what.how you look. thats what i tell myself. sometimes it works

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:22 AM★ Spotlighted

But I don't think I chose to be a fat person.

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:22 AM★ Spotlighted

i didnt choose to be one either

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:22 AM★ Spotlighted

I might have *shrug*

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:23 AM★ Spotlighted

Haha, no regrets! YOLO

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:24 AM★ Spotlighted

Yeah, we run our society on this like...econ based conception of perfect free choice and lmao no

Andrew DaarJun 6, 2014, 12:25 AM★ Spotlighted

How do we address these issues in a society in which pointing out hypocrisy so rarely works? I can think of famous white males who rail against fatness or refer to it simplistically, while themselves being fat.

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:25 AM

The mission of my trolls, they said, was to take down my blog so that someone wouldnt read it and believe that they could stay fat and that it was okay. Or that someone would become fat after reading about fat acceptance.

Andrew DaarJun 6, 2014, 12:25 AM★ Spotlighted

These people tend to focus on women or POCs or people in the underclass who are overweight, while ignoring their own body type, sometimes acquired through unhealthy conduct.

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:27 AM★ Spotlighted

Right I get criticised for eating a kale, black bean and yam burrito?!?! And I just want to know wtf they eat.

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:27 AM★ Spotlighted

I think also one of the ways to position yourself as "good fat person" is to be really hard on other fat people

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:28 AM★ Spotlighted

We appreciate that! Because I dont have resources to fight it the way I wish I could.

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:29 AM★ Spotlighted

hey,if politicians can redirect why cant we? right?

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:30 AM★ Spotlighted

i would rather be a fat person than a troll

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:30 AM★ Spotlighted

That is why I delete comments and dont respond.

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:31 AM★ Spotlighted

*touches wood*...i've yet to have a troll. of any kind.

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:37 AM★ Spotlighted

One of the things I struggle with most is people whose politics are otherwise aligned with mine, but who are just really not critical about body/health stuff.

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:37 AM★ Spotlighted

Lots of (women in particular) in my former abortion clinic and at my seminary constantly talking about how they need to lose weight

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:38 AM★ Spotlighted

Or the constant use of images of fat bodies to portray the mega-rich

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:40 AM★ Spotlighted

It's really easy to not see if you haven't taught your brain to look for it

Living 400lbsJun 6, 2014, 12:46 AM★ Spotlighted

Rachele, it's so odd to me how many people seem to believe that fat acceptance will make people fat.

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:48 AM★ Spotlighted

For me that always goes back to the whole mind/body dualism thing

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:48 AM★ Spotlighted

You (your brain/soul) have to conquer your body (which is base and immoral)

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:49 AM★ Spotlighted

I would not be trolled if I had a weight loss blog

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:50 AM

it says more about the bullys/trolls, than it does about the those they bully.troll

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:50 AM★ Spotlighted

Absolutely Maya. But...how?

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:51 AM

stop buying those magazines that promote "skick thin" as good and being "fat" as bad. that might be a start. or am i wrong?

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:52 AM

I hate giving this video any views but if you want to see a youtube version of everything awful we are talking about - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHZpU1ykdc8&feature=kp

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:52 AM★ Spotlighted

<3<3<3 Yessssssss

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:53 AM

Big fat hate trigger warning on that video...and yes that is me in it in the beginning :(

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:53 AM★ Spotlighted

question: are males less likely to talk about being fat than women? i've just noticed its mostly women talking here....

Living 400lbsJun 6, 2014, 12:53 AM★ Spotlighted

Rachele - I am told that many still-fat weight loss bloggers get trolled as well, for being "insufficiently successful". :P

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:54 AM★ Spotlighted

I am 1000% in for amazing things

Rachele Rad Fat VeganJun 6, 2014, 12:54 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes amazing things!

Kytara EppsJun 6, 2014, 12:54 AM★ Spotlighted

Definitely Amanda. When I think about how various marginalized bodies are treated in the medical industry ... I think that's a great common ground to talk about community building

Kytara EppsJun 6, 2014, 12:57 AM★ Spotlighted

gosh i remember all the fatphobic articles by Black media outlets that were saying how Fat Black women are runining out community

Living 400lbsJun 6, 2014, 12:57 AM★ Spotlighted

Women are discriminated against in the workplace at lower BMIs than men. http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/reports/Rudd_Policy_Brief_Weight_Bias.pdf

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:58 AM★ Spotlighted

yuk i hate BMI's. same thing with "diets". dont use em,dont need em

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:59 AM★ Spotlighted

but thats just me

KC SlackJun 6, 2014, 12:59 AM★ Spotlighted

You are all super and I love you!

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 12:59 AM★ Spotlighted

i see apart 2 on the horizon!

Living 400lbsJun 6, 2014, 12:59 AM★ Spotlighted

Lucy - Agree that BMI is just height/weight. But researchers often use it to categorize by height/weight.

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 1:00 AM

do this once a week...a month?

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 1:01 AM★ Spotlighted

great chat you two. thank you :-)

Lucy DyerJun 6, 2014, 1:01 AM★ Spotlighted

same to you maya