Jordan Birnbaum

Host

Causing Connectivity To Create Accountability

Aug 20, 2013·54 visitors

Lorelei Kelly

Cohost

Stage· 271 messages

Aug 20, 2013

Lorelei Kelly is a pioneer in the field of government connectivity in the Internet Age, and she ALWAYS fights the good fight. Let's find out why there's hope, and why the Internet hasn't made more of a positive difference in politics yet.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:00 PM

Lorelei, I presume?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:00 PM

hi Jordan!

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:00 PM

Hi! Thank you so much for being here -and to the audience as well!

Lorelei Kelly · 7:00 PM

am excited to try this out

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:01 PM

So Lorelei - I think we should provide a little context on your background so people can understand how you came across a lot of the information you now use.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:01 PM

sure...I was on the Hill for 9 years as a national security expert

Lorelei Kelly · 7:01 PM

but spent a lot of time figuring out how to create knowledge sharing systems because the old system was obsolete

Lorelei Kelly · 7:02 PM

and not seeing or hearing the dramatic changes int he world

Lorelei Kelly · 7:02 PM

(the committee system)

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:02 PM

oy, humanity...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:02 PM

so as a process geek--I set up a House and Senate program that was shared

Lorelei Kelly · 7:02 PM

informally and underneath the committees

Lorelei Kelly · 7:03 PM

its the big complex global issues that Congress has the most trouble with

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:03 PM

it sounds like that's the only way to get anything done in DC anyway...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:03 PM

that's true!

Lorelei Kelly · 7:03 PM

I just wish more of it happened on behalf of public interests

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:03 PM

OK -so let's begin with the thesis question.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:04 PM

It seems as though the government has become worse and worse every year since the INternet emerged (early 90's).

Lorelei Kelly · 7:04 PM

that might be true of the federal government

Lorelei Kelly · 7:04 PM

probably varies at th elocal level

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:04 PM

This is totally counter-intuitive because it seems like the INternet should be empowering the masses politicially

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:04 PM

granted, this is not a scientific, but rather anecdotal premise...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:04 PM

well...the seductive thought is about revolutions

Lorelei Kelly · 7:05 PM

and transformation...and everyone getting to participate

Lorelei Kelly · 7:05 PM

but there is a huge gap between the revolution and the institution

Lorelei Kelly · 7:05 PM

and I think we need to step back and take a breath and realize that the institutional bridge building

Lorelei Kelly · 7:05 PM

takes work

Lorelei Kelly · 7:05 PM

and time...it won't happen by accident

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:06 PM

So, in reading some of your work, I was shocked to hear about some developments in '94, which is about the same time the INternet started to spread quickly.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:06 PM

yes, I like to say that 1995 was the year of the lobotomy of the legislative branch

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:06 PM

Can you talk about the Science Advisory Body and what happened?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:07 PM

94, 95, what's a year or two?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:07 PM

well, everytime a new Congress takes over...in January they pass a new set of rules for procedure

Lorelei Kelly · 7:07 PM

and admin

Lorelei Kelly · 7:07 PM

When Newt Gingrich took over in 1995, one of the first things he did was dismantle the technology and science staff

Lorelei Kelly · 7:07 PM

all its capacity for shared, peer reviewed knowledge, its predictive modelling ability

Lorelei Kelly · 7:07 PM

its trusted translators of technical terms

Lorelei Kelly · 7:08 PM

all gone

Lorelei Kelly · 7:08 PM

this was together with hundreds of other expert staff on committees and caucuses

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:08 PM

So for some reason there was a conscious decision to eject all scientific expertise from the government?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:08 PM

yes. hard to believe, I know, especially because Gingrich touts himself as a big thinker

Lorelei Kelly · 7:09 PM

he actually dismantled his own creations in Congress...a clear choice of politics over policy

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:09 PM

what was everyone doing while this was happening? Did no one notice?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:09 PM

well, the institutional geeks certainly noticed...but it was billed as eliminating government overhead

Lorelei Kelly · 7:09 PM

Congress just cut its staff by 12% again last year

Lorelei Kelly · 7:10 PM

it is a continual hemorrhage

Lorelei Kelly · 7:10 PM

of long term memory and judgment

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:10 PM

So how is this affecting national security, among other things?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:10 PM

think of it as the difference between crowdsourcing and curating...you need both for a democracy to make policy

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“94-95 I think I was learning how to use the internet and computer lol.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:11 PM

yes Rachel - that's why I'm not holding you accountable.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:11 PM

well, as the NSA debacle has shown, we still look backward for inspiration for security policy...as if a padlock on the world would work

Lorelei Kelly · 7:11 PM

ha! Rachel, we had word perfect when I got to the HIll

Lorelei Kelly · 7:11 PM

you'll have to find that in the Smithsonian

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:12 PM

Do you think that our response to things like climate change, stem cells, and other scientifically driven issues would have been different if not for this dismantling?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:12 PM

Congress is better prepared to fight Napoleon than extreme weather, for example....

Lorelei Kelly · 7:12 PM

yes, I do

Lorelei Kelly · 7:12 PM

because there would have been a high reputation, institutional way to hold Congress accountable

Lorelei Kelly · 7:12 PM

for using the best data available

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:13 PM

Did anyone actually believe these cuts were a good idea, or was there widespread acknowledgement that these decisions would hurt the country.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:13 PM

well, there was not a big debate about it, to be honest

Lorelei Kelly · 7:13 PM

I wasn't in DC when it happened, but its often easy to cut these vital, low profile bureucracies

Lorelei Kelly · 7:14 PM

that make government work. we all take them for granted

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:14 PM

reminds me of Glass Steagall, NAFTA, Media Telecommunications Act...thank alot 90's.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:14 PM

only now that we're seeing train wreck after train wreck do we start to seek answers

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“how can people not see that you can't look to the past for answers to the future? Scary our own government can't even seem to see that logic. :/”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:14 PM

yes...well...the competence and capacity of government has been badly attacked for the past 35 years

Lorelei Kelly · 7:15 PM

its the bread and butter of the GOP and the Democrats jump on board pretty often, too

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:15 PM

Yes, all those policy debacles listed above came courtesy of William Jefferson Clinton.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:16 PM

well...its interesting in retrospect, the Clinton years did see some of that easy rhetoric, but Al Gore actually championed an idea called Rein venting Government...and it was about reform, not ruin

Lorelei Kelly · 7:16 PM

Reagan in California really started it

Lorelei Kelly · 7:16 PM

But I agree...the financial catastrophes were sown in the 1990s

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:16 PM

OK -so tying this all back to the original question...

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:17 PM

Assuming government has gotten worse since the advent of the Internet

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:17 PM

we're saying it is actually due to Newt Gingrinch's policies than anything having to do with the INternet.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:17 PM

well. I think th eopportunity here is to actually de centralize and re distribute actual civic functions

Lorelei Kelly · 7:18 PM

so many reasons...that is just one...but part of it is Congress' inability to sort and filter knowledge, sort sentiment from substance

Lorelei Kelly · 7:18 PM

and the money in the system is the biggest problem of all

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“maybe the internet was a perfect distraction for people? While all this was going on ?”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:18 PM

Rachel, question for you, did you have social studies and civics in school?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:19 PM

In the meantime, let's take this question:

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“what's the current temperature on this issue? is congressional leadership re-emphasizing science and technology at all? or is that staff still eroding?”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:19 PM

the leadership no...individual members, yes

Lorelei Kelly · 7:19 PM

Rush Holt (a rocket scientist) from NJ has introduced legislation yearly to bring back the science capacity

Lorelei Kelly · 7:19 PM

and groups like AAAS and universities have been trying as well

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:19 PM

who are some leading the way (secretly hoping to hear Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders)

Lorelei Kelly · 7:20 PM

but the problem is that science can't compete with talking points

Lorelei Kelly · 7:20 PM

or commercial interests

Lorelei Kelly · 7:20 PM

it doesn't have a political constituency that competes

Lorelei Kelly · 7:20 PM

warren is an open question--but I'll bet she'd be really interested...Sanders is awesome

Lorelei Kelly · 7:20 PM

on this topic

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:20 PM

cool - they're my 2 favorites

Lorelei Kelly · 7:21 PM

Sanders was a Member when the OTA (the tech advisors) existed...he could tell you about it

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I did yes. And I even had to take a year of governmental studies”

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“and that was in the year 2001 or 2002 I believe so after all this happened”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:21 PM

that's great to hear...I think that civics have really been de emphasized in American curriculum

Lorelei Kelly · 7:21 PM

that's aprt of the problem

Lorelei Kelly · 7:22 PM

I don't think government is so awful, just that it is anti-modern...it can't keep up

Lorelei Kelly · 7:22 PM

and we're in a situation where many many interests have huge investments in the status quo

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:22 PM

OK - so since we realize that the link between the Internet and decline of government efficacy is tenuos at best, what changes has the Internet made so far?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:22 PM

change is hard...it will be furiously fought

Lorelei Kelly · 7:23 PM

well...social media does identify and accelerate issues, it also consolidates many voices

Lorelei Kelly · 7:23 PM

all important

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:23 PM

right, like KONY and anti-fracking?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:23 PM

but it doesn't usually help leaders out when they need expert judgment...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:23 PM

yes...any number of issues, from genocide to climate...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:24 PM

but just because lots of people care...doesn't mean that the institution has to or will act on it

Lorelei Kelly · 7:24 PM

that takes a strategy and a long term commitment

Lorelei Kelly · 7:24 PM

just look at guns

Lorelei Kelly · 7:24 PM

the NRA knows what it is doing...it never sleeps, it knows exactly who, how, where, when and what

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:24 PM

so the Internet has done a good job of raising awareness and consolidating communities, it just hasn't translated to real power

Lorelei Kelly · 7:25 PM

I would argue yes, but many people would disagree with me

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“How do leaders FIND experts who are "clean" - as in, not lobbyists or not from institutions that receive grant monies from specific interests. Internet SHOULD be helping with that, am I wrong?”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:25 PM

well, funding for knowledge will always be contested --the best we can do is offer transparency

Lorelei Kelly · 7:25 PM

and also co locate expertise where it counts i.e. in districts

Lorelei Kelly · 7:26 PM

me sitting in downtown DC is not nearly as powerful as me sitting with my family in New Mexico

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:26 PM

are people less likely to behave poorly in local community settings?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:26 PM

reaching out to Members...trying to change the priorities of the nuclear labs, for example

Lorelei Kelly · 7:26 PM

that's a good question...it depends on the setting

Lorelei Kelly · 7:26 PM

I think open mic "town halls" are awful for Members

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:27 PM

yes, and great fun to watch!

Lorelei Kelly · 7:27 PM

and for the learning public i.e. those who want a civic engagement

Lorelei Kelly · 7:27 PM

yes...but come on, that's part of the problem..."gotcha" videos on youtube?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:27 PM

I know, I can't help it.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:27 PM

what it will do is make Members and staff retreat into the smokey back rooms more than ever

Lorelei Kelly · 7:27 PM

what we need are new ways to convene

Lorelei Kelly · 7:28 PM

locally...like via open methocs...that are facilitated

Lorelei Kelly · 7:28 PM

check out participedia.org

Lorelei Kelly · 7:28 PM

open space methods are full of good ideas for gathering expertise

Lorelei Kelly · 7:28 PM

its not a free for all...its safe, its limited, its participatory, but with boundaries

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:28 PM

It's a very Eastern way of thinking, right?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“why do you think funding for knowledge will always be contested? to me that just screams corruption.”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:29 PM

Rachel...I think that those with a direct financial interest in a certain outcome i.e. commercial interests...should be seen as such

Lorelei Kelly · 7:30 PM

also highly ideological research...the idea of "public interest" is highly contested...we don't really agree on it as a people, so even to say that knowledge is in the public interest will irk some

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“I agree, Lorelei! There must be a more civil way for the governed to have discourse with their governors. Internet is too full of trolls, and town halls...have real-life trolls. Eck.”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:30 PM

yes...and its wide open, Rebecca...you could do this where you live!

Lorelei Kelly · 7:31 PM

find a group of civic technologists, hackers, etc...and go to the district office

Lorelei Kelly · 7:31 PM

talk to them about how you could help

Lorelei Kelly · 7:31 PM

or what kind of learning they would like facilitated

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:31 PM

OK - so we are beginning to approach a sort of "solutions" theme

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:31 PM

Lorelei, you are running more projects than I could count!

Lorelei Kelly · 7:32 PM

I'm very familiar with that. I grew up next door to a drag strip ; )

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:32 PM

Can we tawk about some of them, and how you envision change emerging?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Yes, but where I live, no one wants to hear it. :D They just want guns and demolition derbies.”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:32 PM

yes, will this touches on everything Jordan...it really is about how we re imagine democracy

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“But, as a teacher, what I have to offer is modeling civil discourse and THINKING (instead of repeating) . I had a professor who did that for me. It's valuable.”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:33 PM

well... for example, if people in districts would wikify themselves according to expertise, location, affiliation, and the institutional responsibilities of their Member of Congress..that would be huge

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:33 PM

do you think congressional leaders would be wiling to engage with them, or would they just do whatever the donor wants?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:33 PM

or, if you would go to your local district office and offer to convene with trusted experts to simply help the staff and Member know the context of an issue

Lorelei Kelly · 7:34 PM

well...that's a good question...my experience has been that money purchases access...but not necessarily decisions

Lorelei Kelly · 7:34 PM

social media noise and money compete for access

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:34 PM

well that is a very important thing to note

Lorelei Kelly · 7:34 PM

but what we don't use well is social capital, in other words, relationships and location

Lorelei Kelly · 7:35 PM

yes...just think, most Members of Cognress see themselves as public servants, so do their staff

Lorelei Kelly · 7:35 PM

they do feel quite demoralized

Lorelei Kelly · 7:35 PM

they would like help from people without a selfish agenda

Lorelei Kelly · 7:35 PM

i.e. citizens working for the greater good

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:35 PM

that surprises me, and I think it would most people

Lorelei Kelly · 7:36 PM

one staffer said to me once, "wow, you have the big picture on your agenda, nobody does that!"

Lorelei Kelly · 7:36 PM

there are also other tasks, like hearings, committee questions, relevant to the Members' needs

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:36 PM

I suppose the populace has gotten so used to the idea that money wins that the idea of grassroots anything making a difference is hard to grasp

Lorelei Kelly · 7:37 PM

well...even the vocabulary is a problem...many would say that "grassroots" is voting...and elections...so fine...but what about policy making?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“surprises me too Jordan more people need to know this.. maybe then people won't feel like they can't change anything. very good to note! :)”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:37 PM

that is a different group...again, it is the curators more than the crowd. we don't live in a direct democracy. we live in a representative one

Lorelei Kelly · 7:38 PM

we need to figure out how to get the high reputation, high quality big data into the room while the decisions are being made...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:38 PM

that could be via people or technology...and it happens very rarely or never

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Lorelei, do you think there is a place for volunteers on the local level to step in and be "on-call experts" on subjects of issues that officials could go to for answers? That seems valuable.”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:38 PM

rebecca, yes indeed

Lorelei Kelly · 7:39 PM

that is so utterly valuable, I can't tell you

Lorelei Kelly · 7:39 PM

but the key is to begin to engage in a friendly and consistent way

Lorelei Kelly · 7:39 PM

lots of it is just re framing how you view Congress

Lorelei Kelly · 7:39 PM

part of it is knowing the local staff and whether or not they even do policy work...most of it happens in DC

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:40 PM

wow - I need to rethink Congress - that's a pretty big ask

Lorelei Kelly · 7:40 PM

yet the policy staff DO come to the district regularly...so you need to find out when you can meet with that staff person

Lorelei Kelly · 7:40 PM

and more and more members have policy people close to home. Members are at home much more now than 2 years ago

Lorelei Kelly · 7:41 PM

once our big complex issues i.e. climate, hunger, democracy, shared society become seen as constituent services...they will get lots more attention than social media "noise"

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:41 PM

Lorelei - I know that you also put a great deal of emphasis on local action in the district of comittee chairs, is that right?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:41 PM

Members can only act within their institutional capacity...and that also depends on seniority and ideology

Lorelei Kelly · 7:42 PM

and timing is everything. for example, anyone can introduce a bill, but it only becomes meaningful if a committee takes it up, then sends it to the floor for a vote

Lorelei Kelly · 7:42 PM

so yes, the chair has the majority of the power all of the time per issue...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:42 PM

but look at house.gov

Lorelei Kelly · 7:42 PM

or senate.gov...read a few oversight plans

Lorelei Kelly · 7:42 PM

it is crazy what has been plunked together

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:43 PM

kind of a tangent, but shouldn't we change that as well?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:43 PM

oh indeed. but I will bet you dinner that Congress will never reform itself

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“So how would you go about educating the everyday people on these issues, especially when there is so much misinformation out there or alot of it is very technical speak (policy wise) and everyday people may not feel like they can comprehend the info”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:43 PM

the way to do it is to distribute the different vital functions to trusted, public interest participants

Lorelei Kelly · 7:44 PM

rachel, I think this is the most interesting frontier of tech

Lorelei Kelly · 7:44 PM

we need to figure out what governing technology looks like...it will split the difference between the mass participation and the needs for expertise

Lorelei Kelly · 7:44 PM

and space for deliberation, risk taking and privacy

Lorelei Kelly · 7:45 PM

do you use rottentomatoes.com

Lorelei Kelly · 7:45 PM

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“You mean, like, an actual panel of teachers to work on education reform? ;)”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:45 PM

that's a very simple example of a curated participation site

Lorelei Kelly · 7:45 PM

yes!

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:45 PM

that's just crazy tawk, @rebecca

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“no but I have before I remember that url from years ago”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:45 PM

what members often lack is detailed, local specifics...the leadership gives talking points that are very broad...what you could do is make it specific

Lorelei Kelly · 7:46 PM

just think if committee members were consistently served expert knowledge from their own districts during the course of committee season...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:46 PM

enabled by technology

Lorelei Kelly · 7:46 PM

and mostly open to the public as well...on websites

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:47 PM

OK -what is the biggest obstacle to turning online passion, participation and expertise into local, real-life access to drive change?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:47 PM

well...in politics the relationships will leverage the technology, the tech can only identify the relationships...that is old as dirt and will never change

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:47 PM

so transparency is the first step?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:48 PM

people need to start, one by one, two by two, getting together and building these relationships

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“YES! YES! That is certainly lacking! I don't really believe in panacea solutions for a country as large as ours. Ground-level information/stats is KEY!”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:48 PM

yes. transparency iskey, but transparency is NOT the same thing as accountability

Lorelei Kelly · 7:48 PM

remember, Congress belongs to you. to everyone

Lorelei Kelly · 7:49 PM

it is there like a big final frontier for civic tech

Lorelei Kelly · 7:49 PM

but it won't just do it on its own, or beause it is shiny or because it makes noise...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:49 PM

it will do it because it is responding to real needs from important voices at home

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:49 PM

OK - so to follow this vision, we need to learn about our Congressional staff, who to contact and how?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I would sure love to start looking into higher education and trying to do something about the exponential amount of debt we students are forced into.. I guess I will have to strike up some conversations :)”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:50 PM

yes...you could also get a directory

Lorelei Kelly · 7:50 PM

but members usually have 2-3 district offices

Lorelei Kelly · 7:50 PM

you need to be from the district...I go in New Mexico...and you need to have an ask...

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:51 PM

so, I could call my Congressperson's field office and talk about my opposition to private prisons and the drug war?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:51 PM

I've done many intereviews with staff about their expert knowledge needs, who in their district they would like to hear from (colleges, hospitals, retired foreign services officers, etc)

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“Do it Jordan! :)”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:52 PM

Jordan, that's one thing you could do right before a vote...but what I'm suggesting is to go in person...and find out what they know, what they are interested in,

Lorelei Kelly · 7:52 PM

etc. how do they connect to the issue? do they even have an intterest?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:52 PM

Sounds like dating.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:52 PM

well...

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“very good to know Lorelei.. here I thought they didn't like to hear from us pesky little people.. guess I need to change my perspective”

Lorelei Kelly · 7:53 PM

Congress has pretty intimate control over many aspects of our lives!

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:53 PM

should we ask them their favorite movies?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:53 PM

yes!

Lorelei Kelly · 7:53 PM

Rachel, what I would do is investigate how you can be useful to them...you are a techie...

Lorelei Kelly · 7:53 PM

could you be a tech fellow in a district office?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:54 PM

I bet none of them would say "Gasland 2!"

Lorelei Kelly · 7:54 PM

most members would LOVE someone who can answer basic questions about VOIP and twitter

Lorelei Kelly · 7:54 PM

many don't have tech staff...only press secretaries

Lorelei Kelly · 7:54 PM

ha! you would be surprised.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:55 PM

I have always wondered why we don't have a Capitol Hill film festival

Lorelei Kelly · 7:55 PM

wouldn't be hard to do

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:55 PM

GREAT idea! OK -before we wrap this up, given your national secuirty expertise, I have to ask about Edward Snowden.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:55 PM

Hero or villian?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:55 PM

neither

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:56 PM

ahh, I didn't realize nuance was an option

Lorelei Kelly · 7:56 PM

I think he is a modern whistleblower...in very unusual circumstances

Lorelei Kelly · 7:56 PM

Well as a security geek, I know there are real threats out there, but I also know that the system really punishes truth tellers...and to the extent that we have created a massive secrecy economy...that makes it worse. What is most interesting to me

Lorelei Kelly · 7:56 PM

is that he was from Booze Allen, a big beltway bandit

Lorelei Kelly · 7:57 PM

that to me requires far more oversight..why have we privatized so much of our common goods?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:57 PM

why have we introduced these profit motives into security?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:57 PM

It is wrong at many levels, and we need to migrate the power to different places to change it

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:57 PM

is there a self-selecting process that usually screens out morality?

Lorelei Kelly · 7:58 PM

well, part of the problem, that he points out is that we have a system that persecutes individuals when it is the system at fault

Lorelei Kelly · 7:58 PM

and also that we lack layers of civil courage,

Lorelei Kelly · 7:58 PM

the kind of common beliefs and rewards that our leaders should be giving us

Lorelei Kelly · 7:58 PM

and bringing up constantly...in public venues

Lorelei Kelly · 7:58 PM

how this is about all of us

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:59 PM

I've said this many times, but the US has become exactly how the USSR was described to us during the Cold War.

Lorelei Kelly · 7:59 PM

well, I worked in East Germany and much of DC's security apparatus reminds me of it

Lorelei Kelly · 7:59 PM

the mirrored glass, the guns

Lorelei Kelly · 7:59 PM

the TSA taking away stuff to x ray

Lorelei Kelly · 8:00 PM

I had a lot of stuff taken away from me at Checkpoint Charlies

Lorelei Kelly · 8:00 PM

and got thrown off trains, generally interrogated...

Lorelei Kelly · 8:00 PM

it is sobering

Jordan Birnbaum · 8:00 PM

Wow -Lorelei -simply as a human being, and an American, I really want to thank you.

Jordan Birnbaum · 8:00 PM

Your work is very meaningful

Lorelei Kelly · 8:00 PM

that's the great part of being an American! We don't know better so we just go on ahead!

Lorelei Kelly · 8:00 PM

I hope we don't lose it

Jordan Birnbaum · 8:00 PM

and I couldn't be rooting for you any harder

Lorelei Kelly · 8:01 PM

thanks Jordan and everyone!

Jordan Birnbaum · 8:01 PM

I hope you had enjoyed it -I certainly did!

Lorelei Kelly · 8:01 PM

me too!

Lorelei Kelly · 8:01 PM

now, how could we use this with Congress?

Jordan Birnbaum · 8:01 PM

Thanks everyone for participating!

Jordan Birnbaum · 8:01 PM

Yes, Lorelei, that's the subject of our next Tawk...

Jordan Birnbaum · 8:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Thank you, Lorelei - this was though-provoking.”

Lorelei Kelly · 8:01 PM

over and out. thank you!

Forum · 52

Forum· 52 comments

54 visitors

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Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:10 PM★ Spotlighted

94-95 I think I was learning how to use the internet and computer lol.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:10 PM

sounds like a mess.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:11 PM

haha thanks Jordan. :)

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:12 PM

lol! by 98 I think I was learning html code.. I have been a computer nerd for far too long lol

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:13 PM★ Spotlighted

how can people not see that you can't look to the past for answers to the future? Scary our own government can't even seem to see that logic. :/

Rachael WorkmanAug 20, 2013, 7:14 PM★ Spotlighted

what's the current temperature on this issue? is congressional leadership re-emphasizing science and technology at all? or is that staff still eroding?

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:15 PM

obviously the people need to pay attention too.. because we should hold them accountable for things that hurt our country.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:16 PM

yes science needs to find its way back into our gov. and policy.. I can't believe it is pretty much non-existent rn.. but now I know why...

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:17 PM★ Spotlighted

maybe the internet was a perfect distraction for people? While all this was going on ?

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:19 PM★ Spotlighted

I did yes. And I even had to take a year of governmental studies

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:20 PM★ Spotlighted

and that was in the year 2001 or 2002 I believe so after all this happened

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:22 PM

yes for sure.. glad to hear SOME part of my high school education was progressive lol.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:23 PM

enter the nsa

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:24 PM

it seems to me the more people talk about these important issues the more restrictions are put on talking about these things and telling the truth of the situation.. like FB censoring, NSA, etc..

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:24 PM★ Spotlighted

How do leaders FIND experts who are "clean" - as in, not lobbyists or not from institutions that receive grant monies from specific interests. Internet SHOULD be helping with that, am I wrong?

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:26 PM★ Spotlighted

why do you think funding for knowledge will always be contested? to me that just screams corruption.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:28 PM★ Spotlighted

I agree, Lorelei! There must be a more civil way for the governed to have discourse with their governors. Internet is too full of trolls, and town halls...have real-life trolls. Eck.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:29 PM

so would you say part of the issue is people are sort of waiting for that disaster that ends up on youtube instead of thinking deeply about these issues, we seem to simply be waiting for these people to fail - for entertainment?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:31 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes, but where I live, no one wants to hear it. :D They just want guns and demolition derbies.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:31 PM

haha I am right there with you on that Rebecca...

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:32 PM★ Spotlighted

But, as a teacher, what I have to offer is modeling civil discourse and THINKING (instead of repeating) . I had a professor who did that for me. It's valuable.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:32 PM

another reason true knowledge among the people is needed... we need more of those teachers Rebecca

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:33 PM

;). Thanks, Rachel. I think so, too. It's too bad they're hamstrung these days with the focus on testing, not teaching. That's why I stay out of the system.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:35 PM★ Spotlighted

Lorelei, do you think there is a place for volunteers on the local level to step in and be "on-call experts" on subjects of issues that officials could go to for answers? That seems valuable.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:35 PM

yeah because all the focus on testing has really helped us out in the rankings world wide for education. lol. nope. not really. Instead we teach memorization and regurgitation of facts. not independent thought I agree with you the public education

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:35 PM

system is bad

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:37 PM★ Spotlighted

surprises me too Jordan more people need to know this.. maybe then people won't feel like they can't change anything. very good to note! :)

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:38 PM

and big money probably doesn't want the people to know that social media has such an impact.. I bet they are the ones who place all those cat memes and videos around lol!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:39 PM

HOW?

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:43 PM★ Spotlighted

So how would you go about educating the everyday people on these issues, especially when there is so much misinformation out there or alot of it is very technical speak (policy wise) and everyday people may not feel like they can comprehend the info

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:43 PM

let alone change it

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:44 PM★ Spotlighted

You mean, like, an actual panel of teachers to work on education reform? ;)

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:45 PM★ Spotlighted

no but I have before I remember that url from years ago

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:47 PM

so think of congress as someone who looks at things more abstractly and it is our job to go in and help them see the details of local issues?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:47 PM★ Spotlighted

YES! YES! That is certainly lacking! I don't really believe in panacea solutions for a country as large as ours. Ground-level information/stats is KEY!

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:49 PM★ Spotlighted

I would sure love to start looking into higher education and trying to do something about the exponential amount of debt we students are forced into.. I guess I will have to strike up some conversations :)

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:51 PM★ Spotlighted

Do it Jordan! :)

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:52 PM★ Spotlighted

very good to know Lorelei.. here I thought they didn't like to hear from us pesky little people.. guess I need to change my perspective

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:53 PM

hey that says a lot about a person ;)

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 7:53 PM

That's a good ice-breaker, Jordan. ;)

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:54 PM

I probably could do something like that... My problem rn will be finding the time as I will have 3 jobs and grad school coming up this year

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:54 PM

but I will sure try to find the time to do what I can

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:54 PM

oh really? well that's easy enough :)

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:56 PM

just a person trying to do what is right?

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:58 PM

omg exactly! nothing good seems to come from privatizing anything! - like prisons right Jordan? ;)

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 7:59 PM

couldn't agree more Lorelei

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 8:00 PM

tell that to the American people ..

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 8:00 PM

yes thank you Lorelei! I learned a lot from this! :)

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 20, 2013, 8:01 PM★ Spotlighted

Thank you, Lorelei - this was though-provoking.

Rachel McDonnellAug 20, 2013, 8:01 PM

And of course thank you Jordan! :)