Jordan Birnbaum

Host

Cutting Through The Fat On Food

Dec 20, 2013·41 visitors

Rebecca Westbrook Toker

Cohost

Stage· 372 messages

Dec 20, 2013

Our favorite Renaissance woman returns to provide us with a history of fat. Not the adjective, the noun! It's one of the most misunderstood elements of nutrition, and she's ready to "trim the fat" (sorry) and break it down to what we need to know. Spoiler alert: fat is not the enemy.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Whew, that was a long count-down!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

Ms. Westbrook, I presume?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Welcome, everyone, I hope that you're all well and happy.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Oh, that's me, JB!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

lol good to see you!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

welcome all indeed

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

Good to see you!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

OK, so tonight I am going to be doing quite a bit of learning….

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

Oh, I hope so!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

I had no idea there was an entire backstory around this subject, and I'm excited to learn it!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

Well, alright then, away we go!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

When I say "Fat" - what immediately comes to mind?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Anyone?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Bueller?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

Obesity

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Yes. Body fat.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

"Fat Food" - what does that call to mind?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

heart attacks

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

That.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

Yeah.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

junk food

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

So...lots of negativity.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

Yeah, the word "fat" is not that good…

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

I see where you're going

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

I'm a woman, so when i hear fat, I think, "No!"

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

It's likes calling orange juice "cancer."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

Fat has become almost an epithet in this culture.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

I love a nice tall glass of cancer when I wake up in the morning….

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

Yeah, it is kind of silly, when you think about it, huh?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

I mean, it's not like a cigarette. or paint thinnker. Right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

Paint thinner

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

So, yes. the word fat, which has multiple meanings, has definitely taken on an overwhelmingly negative overtone

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

Dude.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

I mean, it IS an epithet. If you call someone fat, it ruins his/her day.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

although "phat" is OK…

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

I'm very hip

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

LOL

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

And everything you see around you, in stores, in magazines, in ads

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

serves to reinforce the idea that fat is bad and to be avoided.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

fat loss, non-fat, fat-free

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

fat fucker

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

Indeed.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

oops

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

didn't mean that one

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

But...that's manufactured hyteria, and here's why:

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:07 AM

you know I love a conspiracy…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

Our current fat phobia is the product of what was, at the time, a groundbreaking study

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

called the Seven Countries Study.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:08 AM

How many countries participated?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

It was conducted by Ancel keys, the K in K Rations for the military.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Um, it was Seven.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Seven Countries.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

He started his analysis in 1957 and published results in 1970.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:09 AM

Now the K-ration guy - was he a food expert or efficiency expert?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

He was a little bit of both.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:09 AM

7 countries, 13 years, sound pretty serious

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

He was a nutrition guy, trying to find "the answer" or the key to waht was best for humans to eat.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

is that an answerable question?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

It was serious - and it had a longer longitude...I think questionnaires and follow-up continues for quite a long time after that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Here's a summary:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6739443

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

OK - so give us the cliff's notes version

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

The link is a summary.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

But basically, he followed 11, 579 MEN ages 40-59.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

He was looking for morbidity trends, especially in Cardiovascualr Disease.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

And because women had negligible CVD rates, they were left out.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

In the initial 13 years, 2,289 of the subjects died.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

Cause of dealth was all over the board.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

hey, there's everybody!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

Oooh, now I see forum action!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

Hi, guys!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“well i like fat and does my central nervous system”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

So somehow from all of this fat became the scapegoat?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

John, that's pretty much the point. We'll get there. ;)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

Yes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

Why?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

What'd K have against fat?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“You want a history of fat? Cut me in half and count the rings.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

Well...sort of.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

lol

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

His original findings became the platform for a lot of propaganda.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

He found, basically, that the Mediterranean Diet was a good indicator of long-term health.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

He was the original Mediterranean Diet guy, too.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

and that's low in fat?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

Um, no. It's not.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

so if he liked that diet, how did fat become the bad guy?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

There were other factors that were strongly indicated: cholesterol, smoking, and blood pressure.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

But it seemed that something about the Mediterranean Diet seemed to protect even the smokers and the people with high blood pressure/cholesterol.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

Well, in 1977 in the US,

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

quick timeout

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

Senator George McGovern took up the Seven Countries Study

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

i have a question

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

and fashioned a cross to wield for his crusade against fat

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

as part of the Select Committee on Nutritional and Human Needs.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

Okay. Ask away

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

so was McGovern misinterpreting the data on fat? Or was it the K ration guy?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

The K Ration guy just took the meta data and looked for patterns.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

so no particular crusade against fat

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

He noted the cholesterol thing, the smoking and blood pressure things, and from that he concluded that Mediterranean-style diet + a fat-intake cap of 30% of calories would protect your heart.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:20 AM

got it

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

McGovern wanted to make his mark as a young Senator.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

and he thought that a war on fat would buy him political mojo?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

So he whipped it into a frenzy.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

what a dick

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

Yep, he sure did.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

And he got a lot of studies funded that also found corellation between fat and cholesterol and heart disease,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

and he got the NIH and the USDA on board

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

and that's where we got our food pyramid.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

are there actual scientists at places like that? How do they climb on board with fake science?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

or a precourser.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Well, some of it can be blamed on "the best we knew at the time" and some of the rest can be blamed on correllation not equalling causation.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Which, to jump ahead, is what we are finally finding now.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Cholesterol isn't really a marker for heart disease.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Gasp!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

There are many factors and the answer isn't simple, but the drug companies will NEVER let it go without a fight.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:24 AM

all those poor people fighting like hell to get their cholesterol down and it's for NOTHING?!?!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Well, i am not a doctor. I'm not.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

please - doctors aren't even doctors anymore

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

But some doctors are now saying that the drugs are terrible for the body systems and they're not really necessary.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

My brother-in-law is a doctor and strong advocate of going drug-free

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

prescription drug, I mean

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

Sounds like a good man. ;)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

illicit drugs, too

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

but not the main point…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

Well, ask him about cholesterol.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

OK -so have we been depriving ourselves something we really need?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

fat?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

Like fat, cholesterol is an essential element of a healthy body.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

Cholesterol is classified as a lipid, and it's necessary for cell rigidity that moderates cell-wall permeability.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

A healthy system can keep the goo in the cells and the bad stuff out.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“If doctors actually learned something about nutrition, it would help. And then if they connected food with nutrition instead of chemicals with nutrition, it would be helpful.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

YES!!!!!!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

whoa -it's raining comments!!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

Doctors spend so little time studying nutrition and SO MUCH time studying medicine...they don't know how to prescribe a healthy diet for you, but they can give you pills...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“what are you doing comments section?!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

it's coming back online

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

Liz, you know what's up!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“@John Baker, the CSPI is a consumer organization that fought to take coconut oil out of popcorn in movie theaters, for example. Then we learned that coconut oil is good for us. They favored margarine over butter.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“The Center for Science and the Public Interest also became rabid in blackmailing companies to reduce fat,”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

wow -is there a monied interest in funding this?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

And Jordan, back to your question - YES, WE NEED FAT!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

Fat perfroms so many necessary functions for our body.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

To begin, simply, our brain and nerves are made of fat.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

(There is monied interest - I'll get right back to that)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

do we need our brains? or is it like an appendix?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

Vitamins A, D, E and K are FAT SOLUBLE, meaning that if you're not eating fat with them, you can take them up and use them.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“I guess that it depends on whose brain we are discussing”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

touche

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“i need an adult”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

So -any long-term health trends a result for our fat deficiency?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

Fat also does something amazing for us that no one ever thanks it for:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

it PROTECTS THE BODY FROM TOXINS.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

like toxic people?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Fat protects the body by taking in toxins and wrapping them up in fat cells for storage so the body doesn't have to metabolize them (the toxins).

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:33 AM

like luggage

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Think about that for a minute

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Think about the western diet:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Diet Coke, Twinkies, and cigarettes

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

people eat cigarettes?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

And think about the assault that most bodies are under.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

Now think about the obesity epidemic.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

a lot of stress in there, too

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

Right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

Cortisol and adrenaline slow the metabolism

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“Rebecca, that is true about fat and toxins. People who lose a lot a weight do often release trapped toxins into their bodies”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

Those are the stress hormones.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

True, Liz.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

downside of dieting…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

And people who retain a lot of weight or who "just can't lose the weight" are often people whose bodies are just trying to protect them by storing toxins in fat tissue.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:36 AM

That's almost kind of sweet, isn't it?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

Right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

The thing is, fat is one of the 3 classes of foods that we get calories from.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

The macronutirents.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

Fat, Protein, and Carbs.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

What we've done in the last 50 years is try to push fat out of the equation - and even push protien off to the side, too, and replace it with carbs, carbs, carbs.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“Low fat is one of the reasons that we eat so much more sugar.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

And carbs of the worst kind: processed crap carbs.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

they turn into sugar?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

Liz knows! :)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

are they easier to make more cheaply? (Carbs)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

Well, they are easy to make cheaply IF THEY ARE SUBSIDIZED.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

And now we're back to monied interests.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

So, the food pyramid has at its base GRAINS.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

And grains are federally subsidized and therefore produced in huge surplus.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

We have to eat that surplus.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

so diabetes could be on trend that was pushed along by a fat deficiency. what are some others?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

Yes!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

alzheimer's?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

neurological stuff? autism?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

Well, I mean, i think there are huge implications for psychological disorders. We are talking about depriving the brain and central nervous system, right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

Alzheimer's maybe.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

yes, the money is getting clearer and clearer…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

Yes, all of the neuro-dysregulation disorders are MOST DEFINITELY aggravated by processed sugars and other food additives.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

I think we lost the audience again.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

Oh well.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

So I'm fearful that the solution for individuals to address this is going to be expensive.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

Um, individually, it's just about education. Because it's time-consuming.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

Now we're getting into what we really need and how HARD it is to find that in today's marketplace.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

not more expensive, harder to find foods?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

Slightly more expensive, but not unattainable. For me, it's a quality/quantity question.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

I buy less, but I buy the best i can.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

But let's back up a second, because that's sort of silly, when you think about it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

Because what we need are actually the simplest, least processed foods, and they are the hardest to come by.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“The plates were smaller, the muffins and cupcakes were smaller, even the martini glasses were smaller”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“At the Southern Food and Beverage Museum we have a book from Domino Sugar that is full of weight loss diet recipes. It is from the 1950s. But the portions are small and the baked goods have a very different flour to sugar ratio that we use today.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

That's a good point, Liz.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

We can all very easily reduce portions.. and realign out taste preferences.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“Poverty can make for bad decisions in the food category”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

You can see why I am waiting for the Liz - Rebecca Tawk! Match made in Tawking heaven!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

Yes, because the cheapest foods are the most toxic, most-processed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

And, it's HARD and time-consuming to find out what real food really is.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

Which is a reality that can just make you cry if you stop to think about what that means for modern humans.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

But, I've got to get to some neat history.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

Okay, so we need "good fats"

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:47 AM

So, for anyone who stumbles upon this Tawk, let's help them out. What are some of the simplest yet most impactful changes they can make to their diets?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

good, natural fats/

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

Saturated/unsaturated is also an argument that means nothing. it was another false correlation. Staurated fats are what our fat tissues are. Animal fats are not necessarily bad, and studies now suggest that cosuming the fat with red meat

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

helps counter the inflammatory elements.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“Fresh vegetables and fruits.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“Foods as unrefined as possible, but not insanely so. fanaticism in food is just as harmful as other forms of fanaticism”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Yep, Liz, that's it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

that usually seems to be the answer when it comes to food

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Coconut oil is great. olive oil. Avocado oil.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Avocados.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Nuts and seeds.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

NATURAL FATS

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Now, you get into some tricky areas, because processing in fats is tricks.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

Fats, as organic molecules, are fragile.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

http://telstar.ote.cmu.edu/biology/MembranePage/index2.html

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

This shows fat molecules. If you care.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

But they are very sensitive to oxidation and heat.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

Of course I care - I'm storing my toxins in there!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

Because they are long chains of hydrocarbons, and hydrogen is unstable and it's easy to knock those molecules off.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

SO, when you're looking for fats,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

you want VIRGIN.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

Cold-pressed, if you can get it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

OMG -there is so much innuendo in those last 3 comments…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Expeller-pressed is good, but in the US, that can reach high temperatures because there is no regulation.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

it took all my maturity not to go there

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

In the EU, cold-pressed means strictly under 90 F.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Dude, I'm impressed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

I figured someone would pick that up.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

Something like, well, virgins often are cold-pressed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

That's what it's supposed to mean.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

However, enforcement of oil labelling, especially in olive oil, is scandalous.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

There is a lot of fraud in oils.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

Is that due to the Corleone family influence?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

And, most liquid oils - vegetable and seeds - are extracted with hexane, which is highly toxic.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

As a rule of thumb, if it's not a food, don't eat the oil.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

"I put a hexane on you."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

Ex: cottonseed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

Cotton is not a food.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

except for cotton mouth

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

But please see this amusing excerpt from Mark Twain about food fraud in the US:

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

cotton candy

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

http://books.google.com/books?id=D1AbAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT7240&lpg=PT7240&dq=mark+twain+oleomargarine&source=bl&ots=ZDipWi6lj-&sig=wOV8WU7dAh0QNwFTqPO8n2VjUjE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SaOzUomTFdOlkQe97IGQBA&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=mark%20twain%20oleomargarine&f=fa

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

(Or just Google Mark Tawin Oleomargarine if that link doesn't work)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

Wasn't Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" about a sausage factory?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

i guess this food fraud has been happening for a while, huh?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Yes, The Jungle was an important work.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Yes. Food fraud is part of commerce, it seems.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

so, in summary, I hope friggin George McGovern is happy…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

Roman amphorae (clay vessels for oil) have a rudimentary system for tracking oil.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

"Sourcing" - to avoid fraud.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

I highly recommend To Mueller's book Extra Virginity: The Sublime and Scandalous World of Olive Oil.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

God, 80 years from now what will they be tawking about from George W.'s presidency? Stem cells?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

I won't even touch that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Gah.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

Well that was really great, Becca!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

Thanks!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

I learned quite a bit, and I dug it!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

I don't know if anyone is left in the forum, but thanks for sticking with us!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

the comments we did see, we loved.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

http://www.truthinoliveoil.com/extra-virginity

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Indeed, we did.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

this is like a bond movie

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Eat Fat!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

How is this like a Bond movie?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

the conspiracy in the olive oil world.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Dude, read that book!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

I imagine a bad guy in a wheelchair with a cat controlling the olive oil markets.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

He is a fantastic journalist, but more than that, that brother-man can tell a story!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

cool - I'm on it

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Some parts of it are close!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

All right my dear friend and most frequent Tawk collaborator..

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

He talks to some pretty bad guys. Olive oil mafia is real in Italy to this day.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

Yeah - I don't know if you caught my Godfather reference in the middle of all that..

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

Genco Olive Oil

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

Maybe I did. ;)

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

You've seen The Godfather, I hope?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

I decline to answer.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:05 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

Look, I grew up in a cave.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:05 AM

WHYYYYYYY GOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDD?????????

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

Er, a barn.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:05 AM

OK -you and Seth have some work to do

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

Parts I and II. III you can ignore.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

Okay!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

Along with Citizen Kane, the greatest film ever made.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

You saw Citizen Kane, right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

I have seen Citizen kane. <3

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

phew!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

I do think it's the greatest film ever made.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

OMG - it makes me dizzy just thinking about it

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:07 AM

Well, Godfather I and II are THAT good.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

Yeah. It's so...well, yeah, dizzying.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

Okay, that'll be... Christmas viewing?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:08 AM

It's almost as if you told me you never saw a Cohn brothers movie. That would be too much to bear.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:09 AM

The Big Lebowski? Fargo? Raising Arizona? Miller's Crossing?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

I'm a peculiar kind of nerd.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

I saw Fargo in a hotel room in Tegucigalpa.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

In Peace Corps. I was like 26.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:09 AM

Looks like DVDs for Christmas for Rebecca and Seth!!!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:10 AM

did you like Fargo?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Lebowski...man, i know it's a classic, but everyone is SUCH a dick, I can't even watch the whole thing.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

I did like Fargo, but not at the time.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:10 AM

El duderino?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

At the time it gave me bad dreams.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:10 AM

you're out of your element, donnie?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:11 AM

OK -we've descended into a movie Tawk..

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

"You're out of your element, Donnie" is one of the most useful movie quotes ever.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:11 AM

true true

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

But, at the same time, Donnie was the only redeemable one, and he dies.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:11 AM

maude was OK

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:11 AM

and Grant -the butler

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

So...waht else is there? A bunch of people I can't identify with. i don't "want them to win" or anything. So the story is over.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:12 AM

yeah, sometimes I find the abominable characteristics the most hilarious

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:13 AM

I wonder if anyone is in the forum?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

Raising Arizona is one of Seth's faves - along with the rest of the aforementioned films - especially Lebowski.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

But I thought it was ridiculous.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:13 AM

not surprised - seth's the man.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

He is.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

But I am super lame when it comes to pop culture.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

I don't like anything.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:14 AM

That's OK -you have friends like me to help

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:14 AM

You will love The Godfather. I guarantee it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Alright.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

I'm on it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:14 AM

oh wait, I'm trying to think if anyone is likable in it…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Ha!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

The thing is...the violence.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:14 AM

i doubt it, actually

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:15 AM

it's not that bad in the film, actually

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

Okay.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

I just get horrible nightmares the older I get. My brain takes those images and makes them...extremely personal.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:16 AM

W3ell, now I'm nervous my recommendation will cause you trauma

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:16 AM

never mind!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

I'll probably be okay - someone just has to tell me when to cover my eyes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:16 AM

stick with The Princess Bride! (which is also a perfect movie)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

I agree!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

Dude, i feel so lame!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

Like, I have to cover my eyes at the scary parts of movies.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:17 AM

Don't be silly -let's go out with a few Princess Bride quotes to re-establish your street cred

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

You used my favorite the other day

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

"Anybody want a peanut?"

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:18 AM

A nice mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich, when the mutton is nice and lean…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

and "Life is pain, Princess. Anyone who tells you different is selling something."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

Haha! The MLT.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:18 AM

"I have no key." "Fezzik, rip his arms off." "Oh, you mean THIS key?"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

My in-laws have "I'm not a witch, I'm your wife!" and "Get back, witch!" coffee mugs.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:19 AM

perfect!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:19 AM

To the pain!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

;)

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:19 AM

ok -g'nite my friend, who is most definitely NOT a warthog-faced buffoon…

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Thanks?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Good night!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:20 AM

good night! was fun!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:20 AM

as always!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Indeed. See everyone later!

Forum · 69

Forum· 69 comments

41 visitors

Tawkers AdminDec 13, 2013, 7:35 PM

Welcome to the Forum! To get involved, click "Who's Here" and then FOLLOW people.

Tawkers AdminDec 13, 2013, 7:35 PM

Once 25 people gather in the audience, a comment needs at least one LIKE to become visible to the two Hosts and anyone not following them. So LIKE the comments you want everyone to see!

Global Culture Exchange Centre Africa Uganda DirectorDec 13, 2013, 10:20 PM

waiting for the conference to begin

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:00 AM

You want a history of fat? Cut me in half and count the rings.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:07 AM

I think that our attitudes toward fat were based on bad science that no one wanted to discard after the bad science was revealed. It was too politically embarassing

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:08 AM★ Spotlighted

well i like fat and does my central nervous system

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:08 AM

Scientists and physicians built an entire industry on bad science.

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:09 AM

what science, liz?

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:09 AM

i mean... whats the industry

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:09 AM

Are the comments working?

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:10 AM

Don't think so

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:11 AM

Maybe if we up vote each others comments . . .

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:12 AM

thats how its supposed to work yes?

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:13 AM

Not until we reach 25 tawkers. Please go back to the begiinning of the tawk

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:13 AM

the comments are being wonky

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

You want a history of fat? Cut me in half and count the rings.

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:16 AM

Fatty Arbuckle's rep.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

Low fat is one of the reasons that we eat so much more sugar.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:19 AM★ Spotlighted

The Center for Science and the Public Interest also became rabid in blackmailing companies to reduce fat,

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:19 AM

is that true liz and what is that?

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:19 AM

Tawk = no comments this PM

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

@John Baker, the CSPI is a consumer organization that fought to take coconut oil out of popcorn in movie theaters, for example. Then we learned that coconut oil is good for us. They favored margarine over butter.

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:22 AM

I'm waiting for the word that twinkies are actually healthy.

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:22 AM

that sounds familiar. i must investigate

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:23 AM

@Rick Rosner, wouldn't it be nice to just stop being crazy about food?

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:23 AM

Yup. Twinkies good; rice cakes bad.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:23 AM

An occasional fried twinkie dipped in chocolate won't kill you.

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:24 AM

that sounds scary, liz

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:25 AM

i take its a real thing though?

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

If doctors actually learned something about nutrition, it would help. And then if they connected food with nutrition instead of chemicals with nutrition, it would be helpful.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:26 AM

Yes, I have seen them on menus here in the South, where we will eat anything. It sounds decadent, doesn't it?

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:26 AM

Now he's gone too far.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:27 AM

Jordan, what would happen to us if there weren't competing drugs running around in our bodies?

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

what are you doing comments section?!

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:28 AM

The comment section is in a time warp

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:28 AM

now we're tawkin'

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:29 AM

And they make money when you need them to prescribe pills

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:29 AM

as I said, push thumb's up on all comments.

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

i need an adult

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:30 AM

There are 2 major competing organizations one is the Center for Consumer Freedom and the other is CSPI. They are both extreme.

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:31 AM

My brain is for sale. It's barely used.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

I guess that it depends on whose brain we are discussing

Rick RosnerDec 20, 2013, 2:33 AM

Fat also cushions you when you fall.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

Rebecca, that is true about fat and toxins. People who lose a lot a weight do often release trapped toxins into their bodies

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:35 AM

Especially crash dieting

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:35 AM

so kibbe and falafel for everyone?

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:36 AM

I love kibbe

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:36 AM

its tastey for sure

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:37 AM

Do you make yours with lamb?

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:38 AM

i buy mine from a lebanese place

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:38 AM

and they do use lamb for most things

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:39 AM

They found Egyptian mummies with plaque in the veins

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:41 AM★ Spotlighted

At the Southern Food and Beverage Museum we have a book from Domino Sugar that is full of weight loss diet recipes. It is from the 1950s. But the portions are small and the baked goods have a very different flour to sugar ratio that we use today.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:42 AM★ Spotlighted

The plates were smaller, the muffins and cupcakes were smaller, even the martini glasses were smaller

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:45 AM★ Spotlighted

Poverty can make for bad decisions in the food category

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:45 AM

what solutions are there for nutrition poor grocers?

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:48 AM★ Spotlighted

Fresh vegetables and fruits.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:49 AM★ Spotlighted

Foods as unrefined as possible, but not insanely so. fanaticism in food is just as harmful as other forms of fanaticism

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:50 AM

Food fanatics are dour

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:53 AM

And fresh.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:53 AM

It changes with age.

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:56 AM

Only Mario Puzzo knows for sure.

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:57 AM

tell that to the cotton weevils

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:58 AM

no jb. it was about the meat packing as a whole in chicago

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 2:58 AM

wait. i am probably wrong on that

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 2:58 AM

Early English bakers used chalk instead of flour to stretch their bread and make it heavier

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 3:01 AM

and not one person saying "its all a big fat lie"

Liz WilliamsDec 20, 2013, 3:02 AM

For a while it was lonely and empty

John BakerDec 20, 2013, 3:07 AM

citizen kane is not the greatest movie ever made and the godfather sucks. yeah i said it