Jordan Birnbaum

Host

DJ Steve Aoki, The LA Music Scene

Mar 15, 2013·136 visitors

Dennis Romero

Cohost

Stage· 159 messages

Mar 15, 2013

Dennis Romero · 9:00 PM

Check 1, 2. Testing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:00 PM

HELLO DENNIS!

Dennis Romero · 9:00 PM

Hi all.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:00 PM

so excited to be here with you

Dennis Romero · 9:00 PM

Same here. Thanks for inviting me Jordan.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:01 PM

for full disclosure, I have a framed article of your hanging in my apartment - a review of Vanguard when it first opened

Dennis Romero · 9:01 PM

Mind if I put up a link to my Aoki story, in case anyone wants to browse and ask about it?

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:01 PM

yours

Dennis Romero · 9:01 PM

Hah, nice.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:01 PM

Please

Dennis Romero · 9:01 PM

http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/2013/03/steve_aoki_dim_mak_edm_los_ang.php

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:02 PM

and as a nod to your credibility, I also remember when you (fairly) panned Qtopia, the first iteration of Vanguard

Dennis Romero · 9:02 PM

Yes, I had some concerns about the place, but you certainly worked it out.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:02 PM

so for anyone in the audience, a few things to know

Dennis Romero · 9:03 PM

Thanks Blake.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:03 PM

you should tab over to the audience button and listen to the people who interest you

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:03 PM

otherwise you wont see their comments

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:03 PM

Dennis and I only see "overheard" comments

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:04 PM

meaning comments that get votes so be sure to like the comments you want us to see and respond to

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:04 PM

so lets get started

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:04 PM

you wrote one hell of an article about an incredibly interesting guy

Dennis Romero · 9:04 PM

Thanks.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:05 PM

I met him before he started DJing, and I was really happy you mentioned how nice he is

Dennis Romero · 9:05 PM

I had been a critic of Aoki early on. He kind of showed some disrespect to EDM, which he kind of admits. He's earned his way into the top DJs category and now really appreciates our scene. Plus he is very nice.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:06 PM

I appreciate evolution, especially in artists, so I'm glad he didn't let his ego get in the way of his growth

Dennis Romero · 9:07 PM

Yes. He told me that Daft Punk's 2006 show at Coachella really opened his eyes to the possibilities of EDM. That was a watershed moment for a lot of people and seemed to bring hipsters into the dance world for now and forever.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:07 PM

i remember everyone coming back to that show like they had witnessed the resurrection

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:08 PM

from

Dennis Romero · 9:08 PM

Yes. It's one of those events, like Woodstock, where far more people claim they were there than were actually there.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:09 PM

but given how Steve comes across, I found it so surprising he went with the DJ Millionaire moniker - it seems like the opposite of everything he's about - did he mean it in an ironic way?

Dennis Romero · 9:09 PM

I think he actually got it from some sort of pop culture reference (a movie or song, I forget), though most assumed that it had to do with his status as the son of Benihana founder Rocky Aoki.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:10 PM

that was also incredibly interesting - his relationship with his father

Dennis Romero · 9:10 PM

He did grow up in Newport Beach, but he has said he didn't get money from his father growing up (his mother was divorced from him).

Dennis Romero · 9:10 PM

Yeah, he says he learned to be a showman from his dad. His father revolutionized the restaurant experience by having chefs put on a show.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:11 PM

but I was trying to square all the different perspectives - was his dad around him? why didn't he get any money? what was the relationship like?

Dennis Romero · 9:11 PM

He says he was impressed by his father's singularity and focus toward Benihana marketing -- from speed boat racing to other hellman stuff his dad did, it was all focused on his restaurants and all featured his chain's logo.

Dennis Romero · 9:12 PM

I don't think his dad was around too much. He was in New York. Some have suggested his mom did get money from his dad.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:12 PM

interesting psychologically

Dennis Romero · 9:12 PM

Rachael yes. His early influences were actually hardcore punk. He was in a band and put on many shows at UC Santa Barbara.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:12 PM

artists are so often driven by their childhoods

Dennis Romero · 9:12 PM

The early version of Dim Mak was actually more indie and punk.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“Did Aoki reveal any of his early musical inspirations?”

Dennis Romero · 9:13 PM

Jordan: Totally. For Aoki you can see the father's marketing and showmanship, but also a punk rebellion to a broken home.

Dennis Romero · 9:14 PM

You couldn't have asked for a more perfect combo for EDM today. A guy who understands marketing and showmanship at a time when EDM festivals like EDC and Ultra are all about the big stage.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:14 PM

back to Rachel - when I was reading Dennis` descriptions of Aoki`s theatrics, I was imagining a hybrid of Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam Evenflow video) and Wayne Coyne (EVERY Flaming Lips video)

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“Great article Dennis!”

Dennis Romero · 9:15 PM

Jordan -- yeah, he really set the bar high for EDM by crowd surfing, caking, spraying Champagne and thrashing on-stage.

Dennis Romero · 9:15 PM

You look at other DJs and few come close. Even SHM, with their jumping and fist-shaking.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:16 PM

I remember in the 00s there were some DJs I thought did a great job of connecting with their audiences in a visceral way

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:16 PM

Donald Glaude, Carl Cox, Bad Boy Bill come to mind...

Dennis Romero · 9:17 PM

There's actually a past generation of DJs who have done that. I'm thinking yep, Donald Glaude!

Dennis Romero · 9:17 PM

Totally.

Dennis Romero · 9:17 PM

But they seem to have been passed by this wave. Kids don't know who many of those folks are, although Glaude remains, in my book, one of the top top spinners out there, period.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:17 PM

When I first opened Vanguard I wasn`t into EDM - that all changed the first time I saw Donald

Dennis Romero · 9:18 PM

He's amazing. A showman (he likes to push down the sound and yell at the crowd, "People put your hands up!") with like, battle hip-hop DJ skills. Amazing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:18 PM

So I thought of him while reading your article, and yet I never realized DGs connection to punk and rock sensibility in that way

Dennis Romero · 9:19 PM

Yeah I think those guys actually come from more of a hip-hop perspective, which is cool too. Or how about LTJ Bukem and MC Conrad. Wow.

Dennis Romero · 9:19 PM

Who played a Vanguard a few times.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:19 PM

indeed

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrei Berman

“Anybody going to Ultra this year? I'm kind of a novice house music fan, so pardon my question here, but how has Ultra evolved/changed over the years since its inceptions? I've heard critics hate on it for being devoid of its originally purity. Any truth?”

Dennis Romero · 9:20 PM

Andrei: Not I. It's interesting to watch Ultra claim to be the largest dance fest in America. I think it's a toss up between it and EDC Vegas.

Dennis Romero · 9:20 PM

Ultra never had original purity! It was always a big stage festival. I went in the early '00s and BBC Radio 1 was braodcasting live.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:20 PM

lol

Dennis Romero · 9:21 PM

They claime 160,000 attendance last year. EDC said 100k a day over three days. But now Ultra is going to 2 weekends. Let the battle begin.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:21 PM

when promoters battle, consumers win

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:21 PM

as do artist fees

Dennis Romero · 9:22 PM

Totally. I'm enthused. East Coast vs. West Coast.

Dennis Romero · 9:22 PM

Yeah, one of the sad things about the newfound largesse of EDM, which I didn't have space to go into, is that you'll rarely see the likes of Aoki, Kaskade or Deadmau5 at clubs like Vanguard and Avalon anymore.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:23 PM

so back to Aoki for a moment - he was a singer for a punk band and a brilliant A&R guy before he ever started DJing. I mean, that has to make him a better DJ, right?

Dennis Romero · 9:23 PM

They're too big. The clubs can't afford them and the club gigs could dilute their brands. However, one talent agent told me it's good for them to play the ocassional club gig to connect with core audiences and create buzz.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:23 PM

we will def come back to this

Dennis Romero · 9:23 PM

Jordan: Yes. I mean, he could have left DJing alone and just run that label and he would have been fine. He had so many successful discoveries even before he really dove into EDM.

Dennis Romero · 9:24 PM

However, you see A&R guys who are DJs and they're often the best. They have the ear for what works. Look at Jason Bentley, Bruno Guez, Gary Richards, etc.

Dennis Romero · 9:24 PM

Certainly doesn't hurt to have your ear to the underground.

Dennis Romero · 9:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrei Berman

“And how has Aoki felt about the explosion of House/EMD in this country more generally? Obviously, it's benefitted him monetarily, but I'm curious as to how he's felt about its mainstream growth.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:25 PM

but even musically, do you think his understanding of song structure, understanding minor to major and different rhythms, plays a part in his sensibility?

Dennis Romero · 9:25 PM

Andrei - Aoki's all about mainstreaming. He doesn't have a problem with it, so long as everything he does has his own artistic touch and marketing eye.

Dennis Romero · 9:25 PM

Jordan -- yeah, I mean that stuff never hurts. Some of the best are musically inclined (BT, Morgan Page).

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:26 PM

so, it seems like things have changed since I sold Vanguard

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:26 PM

1/1/10 btw

Dennis Romero · 9:27 PM

Yeah I almost feel bad for the promoters and club owners -- Dave Dean, the Avalon guys, et. al. -- who have invested so much in this scene and even into these specific artists and they can't even afford to book them any more.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:27 PM

no question about it - the booking agents made our business impossible

Dennis Romero · 9:27 PM

But ... there's trickle down economics at work here. I mean, EDC only happens once a year. Same for Coachella. Fans get stuck on EDM and they want more than a once a year experience. So they dig deeper into clubs. I think they've been doing fine.

Dennis Romero · 9:28 PM

Plus, a club without Kaskade, Deadmau5, Aoki is a club with more up and coming, more underground artists, Loco Dice, Jamie Jones, Guy Gerber, et. al. That's not a bad thing either.

Dennis Romero · 9:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrei Berman

“Good to know. Amazing how these sorts of misconceptions seem to linger among the unknowing newbie edm fans. good to have you clear it up, since I don't quite know the canon at this point and don't quite no where to find it either.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:29 PM

as I was reading your article, it began to feel like the Vanguard / Avalon shows in today`s market would feel like an MTV Unplugged concert

Dennis Romero · 9:29 PM

Andrei -- a lot of good journalism on EDM out there free for the Googling in LA Weekly, LA Times, Miami New Times, Village Voice, etc.

Dennis Romero · 9:30 PM

Jordan -- yes, they can have that special feel. Sasha at Sound last week. Huge DJ, small venue. These kinds of things become extra special in this envoronment.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:30 PM

so, as a music fan, are you happy with the evolution of EDM? or do you miss the old days?

Dennis Romero · 9:31 PM

Jordan -- both. I feel like so much of what's popular is really just radio music. I mean, Rihanna and Chris Brown are making tracks indistinguishable from David Guetta.

Dennis Romero · 9:31 PM

I tend to shy away from the Avicii's and SHM's personally.

Dennis Romero · 9:32 PM

On the other hand, the next, sort of B level of spinners is better than ever. Some really great sounds out there from your Chus & Ceballoses, Loco Dices, Oscar Gs, Jamie Jonses etc.

Dennis Romero · 9:33 PM

I think Sander Kleinenberg is my favorite DJ.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:33 PM

quick side note - from the first time I booked David Guetta at Vanguard to the last time I booked him, the figure increased by a factor of 12, and it was still a bargain

Dennis Romero · 9:34 PM

So there's mixed feelings. After boosting it for 20 years plus, EDM has arrived and is taking over. But it's not the same EDM. The main stage of EDC -- you can hear that on the radio driving to the event in Vegas. Literally.

Dennis Romero · 9:34 PM

Jordan right on. He's probably well into the six figures now.

Dennis Romero · 9:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“CURRENTLY LISTENING TO - Daft Punk Homework (1997) - my senior year of high school and one of my first memories of the mention of Spike Jonze”

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:35 PM

whats interesting is that many of the artists you still appreciate as a fan are the guys who have remained relevant for years, if not decades

Dennis Romero · 9:35 PM

Nice Blake. Daft Punk more than any other act really bridged the gab between 90s EDM and today.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:36 PM

I`m grateful Daft Punk never distributed any poison Kool-Aid, because everyone would have drank it. Including me.

Dennis Romero · 9:36 PM

Jordan it's really a unique scene in that 20 years on, it's still got this reputation of being new and technological. Rock 20 years on and punk 20 years on didn't have that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:36 PM

why is that?

Dennis Romero · 9:37 PM

I think 1) because it gets discovered in these distinct waves. Today's kids don't know anything about the sort of first and second (92 -- MARS FM, house music on the radio in NYC; 97 -- the record industry starts signing acts) waves. To them it's all new.

Dennis Romero · 9:38 PM

Plus, it is technology based. Pop has really been centered around the guitar for decades.

Dennis Romero · 9:38 PM

Hip-hop took us off the guitar a little. But EDM is relatively new in that way.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:38 PM

classical orchestras out there feel really badly right now...

Dennis Romero · 9:38 PM

Right!

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:39 PM

so, a few questions about why Los Angeles?

Dennis Romero · 9:39 PM

Yeah I mean a lot of EDM guys have been storming Hollywood, getting work doing soundtracks (work that went to orchestras).

Dennis Romero · 9:39 PM

Yeah.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:40 PM

as a former venue owner, I can tell you 2 gigantic obstacles LA presents: 2 AM drinking cut-off and complete lack of public transportation

Dennis Romero · 9:40 PM

The 2 a.m. thing is horrible. It's an embarassment. Sen. Mark Leno of the Bay Area introduced legislation this week that will allow 4 a.m. closing times if local cities so chose. It's being opposed by MADD.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:40 PM

If I ran the exact same biz in NY, MIA or Las Vegas, I would have generated 40% more in liquor revenue

Dennis Romero · 9:41 PM

LA had early roots in the rave scene. A lot of Manchester rave expats came here for the weather and good times and laid down roots. That started it off.

Dennis Romero · 9:41 PM

It snowballed from there. We've always been a rave town.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:41 PM

what's sad about the MADD opposition is that they actually make the problem worse

Dennis Romero · 9:41 PM

For a while it was an embarassing rep, especially as superclubs like Twilo in NYC were getting all the attention.

Dennis Romero · 9:42 PM

Then Insomniac and Go Ventures raves came back with a vengeance with a new generation.

Dennis Romero · 9:42 PM

And so, as Ultra's Pat Moxey says in my story, LA is THE biggest market in the nation for EDM, period. We're the capital. EDC is really an LA phenom.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:43 PM

I know. Pasquale Rotella (Insomniac) played a major role at Vanguard, and we actually funded two of his earlier EDCs

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:43 PM

We tried to introduce rock / hip-hop at one of them while it was still being held at NOS

Dennis Romero · 9:44 PM

Nice. Yes, Pasquale stuck with it even when it wasn't necessarily the cool thing and clubs like Vanguard were the place to be. I wouldn't be caught dead at a rave in those days. Now EDC is as big as Coachella.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:44 PM

I`m very happy for him, plus he just had a baby!

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:45 PM

so I want to pay you a compliment and ask a question

Dennis Romero · 9:45 PM

Rainbow!

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:45 PM

as I personally have experienced, you cover the scene very fairly and make no attempt to sugercoat some of the very real problems of the scene

Dennis Romero · 9:46 PM

Indeed.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:46 PM

do you ever feel conflicted? do you ever get negative pushback?

Dennis Romero · 9:46 PM

Negative pushback! I have a legion of haters who have called me, literally, rave's No. 1 enemy.

Dennis Romero · 9:47 PM

Which is funny, as you know, Jordan, given the overall balance of my coverage. I'm a news reporter first and an EDM journalist second. Always have been.

Dennis Romero · 9:47 PM

But when stuff happens I have to let the facts speak.

Dennis Romero · 9:48 PM

But with critics I try (mostly to no avail) to get them to realize that I've written things positive and negative, as doesn anybody who covers any beat (City Hall, the White House, etc).

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:48 PM

again, speaking to your integrity, you slammed Qtopia, which deserved it, and you raved about Vanguard, which deserved it

Dennis Romero · 9:48 PM

Thanks man! Well, I try to call it as I see it. EDC has had issues with people dying, which is as serious as it gets.

Dennis Romero · 9:49 PM

But I had a talk with a friend connected to Insomniac, and he's a straight up stand up professional who said look we're doing everything we can, security, medical, 18-plus, and I believe that oo.

Dennis Romero · 9:49 PM

too

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:50 PM

Oh, I know first-hand that Paquale doesn`t take any chances when it comes to customer safety

Dennis Romero · 9:51 PM

Nice. Well, here's thing. Facts are facts, and I defend mine and the right the of the LA Times to put them out there. But ... EDC isn't going away, particularly with all the corporate interest in EDM from corporate concert companies like Live Nation.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:51 PM

but I think your article Death, Money and Mega Raves (post a link) makes the fair point. At Vanguard, we had more ODs than I can count, but not a single fatality.

Dennis Romero · 9:51 PM

So the next best thing is to do what has been done, do everything you can to ensure that people don't hurt themselves.

Dennis Romero · 9:51 PM

http://www.laweekly.com/2010-12-30/news/death-money-and-megaraves/

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:51 PM

because we had the systems in place to get them medical attention immediately

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:52 PM

To be fair, that`s a lot easier to do for 2,000 than 100,000, and easier when you do it every week and not once a year

Dennis Romero · 9:53 PM

Can you blame promoters who are doing everything they can? Probably not.

Dennis Romero · 9:54 PM

But can you hold public officials' feet to the fire when they're being lobbied by promoters to have these events on public property (as EDC was at the Coliseum in LA)? Absolutely.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:54 PM

right. all excessive partying leads to bad things. liquor is just as dangerous as any illegal drug.

Dennis Romero · 9:54 PM

It certainly can be.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:55 PM

I think the unfortunate reality is that the public officials have never judged these questions on their merits. they have judged them on their financial gain.

Dennis Romero · 9:56 PM

Yes, things were twisted by the lobbying and I think it showed.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:56 PM

welcome to America

Dennis Romero · 9:56 PM

But frankly EDC Vegas is an impressive event. It's scale alone is, like wow.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:57 PM

I remember being at an early EDC when helicopters flew overhead and dropped 100,000 daisies on the crowd. Pasquale thinks big.

Dennis Romero · 9:57 PM

I think the promoters got too comfy at the Coliseum, and having 16+ ages was a mistake. Going to Vegas forced organizers to tighten up their ship. For the better.

Dennis Romero · 9:57 PM

Nice.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:57 PM

Well thank you so much, Dennis! I enjoyed this immensely!

Dennis Romero · 9:58 PM

Thank you Jordan. Tawkers is way cool. My pleasure.

Jordan Birnbaum · 9:58 PM

I hope you`ll be back!

Dennis Romero · 9:58 PM

Any time.

Jordan Birnbaum · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jon Goldman

“Got here late, but this was awesome. Loved the article Dennis!!”

Forum · 12

Forum· 12 comments

136 visitors

Blake IanMar 15, 2013, 9:01 PM★ Spotlighted

Great article Dennis!

Peter CrysdaleMar 15, 2013, 9:01 PM

Alright! Stoked for this tawk.

Peter CrysdaleMar 15, 2013, 9:08 PM

I love that he is such a big Daft Punk fan.

Rachael WorkmanMar 15, 2013, 9:08 PM★ Spotlighted

Did Aoki reveal any of his early musical inspirations?

Andrei BermanMar 15, 2013, 9:17 PM★ Spotlighted

Anybody going to Ultra this year? I'm kind of a novice house music fan, so pardon my question here, but how has Ultra evolved/changed over the years since its inceptions? I've heard critics hate on it for being devoid of its originally purity. Any truth?

Andrei BermanMar 15, 2013, 9:18 PM★ Spotlighted

And how has Aoki felt about the explosion of House/EMD in this country more generally? Obviously, it's benefitted him monetarily, but I'm curious as to how he's felt about its mainstream growth.

Andrei BermanMar 15, 2013, 9:21 PM★ Spotlighted

Good to know. Amazing how these sorts of misconceptions seem to linger among the unknowing newbie edm fans. good to have you clear it up, since I don't quite know the canon at this point and don't quite no where to find it either.

Andrei BermanMar 15, 2013, 9:32 PM

ecame such a phenomenon seemingly so quickly.

Andrei BermanMar 15, 2013, 9:33 PM

my loose (emphasis on loose) hypothesis was it went Euro-Gay-Gothic teenage Raver-back to Euro/Gay-Guido-alpha dog American bro

Andrei BermanMar 15, 2013, 9:34 PM

But alas, this is probably why I never had much luck crafting a piece in under 700 words. clearly more nuance to it than I'm theorizing.

Blake IanMar 15, 2013, 9:34 PM★ Spotlighted

CURRENTLY LISTENING TO - Daft Punk Homework (1997) - my senior year of high school and one of my first memories of the mention of Spike Jonze

Jon GoldmanMar 15, 2013, 9:58 PM★ Spotlighted

Got here late, but this was awesome. Loved the article Dennis!!