Eleanor Goldfield

Host

Don't be a political purist.

Jul 29, 2014·2,204 visitors

Lee Camp

Cohost

Stage· 301 messages

Jul 29, 2014

Activists Eleanor Goldfield and Lee Camp discuss the pitfalls of advocating a purist form of government, whether that be socialism, communism, capitalism or others and how to shift focus from ideologies to people and real socio-political progress.

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

What's up everybody?! Thanks for making it! Say hi to the most amazing co-host in the history of co-hosts, Eleanor Goldfield!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Hey everyone! Thanks for joining this week's tawk!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Go tweet, post, shout out your window that we've started

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

This is the only place in the world you can find two Jewish atheist pescatarian southerner performers talk politics!!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Say hello to my even more amazing co-host, Lee :)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

the intrepid newshound

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“Looking forward to this tawk Lee & Eleanor! Bring it on :-)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

you're probably right about that actually, Lee

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

Explain the title of this tawk, Eleanor.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

good thing we're not in the same room, something might explode

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

yes - indeed I shall.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

basically, don't be a political purist means that we shouldn't take on a single minded approach to government

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

we're humans - we're imperfect. there's no such thing as a perfect form of government so we have to pick and choose from various 'isms' and ideologies to create what's right for a specific society

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

lucy - did you lock everyone out of the room?

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

Wow, is it just Lucy here?

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Well, I'm here too.”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“dont think so?...*goes to check*”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

ah good - lucy, you're off the hook...for the time being. unless david and lucy are locking people out

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“But I'm a Jewish semi-religious carnivorous lawyer who talks politics...”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

David - I love those kind of people!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

well the numbers do say there are 1984 viewers...

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i blame...erm....who can i blame?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

obviously big brother locked everyone out

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

Wow. 1984 is here.

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“made it! where the father figure is everyone?”

Lee Camp · 11:05 PM

Well now that Phil's here, we can start.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

is it a holiday that my half-swedish atheist jew self is not aware of?

Lee Camp · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“@Lee Sheeeeit”

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

Wow, guys, do you realize we each nearly get a private chat with Phil. This is huge. Most people would pay thousands for this.

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“Good morning...had to get me coffee together.”

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

John - is it morning where you are??

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“@Lee God damit hahaha”

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“its just turned midnight here”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

It's 1 am here - look how global we are!

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

We have someone from the US, the UK, Sweden, and.... all here right now.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

we're a melting pot, Lee

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“hello everyone! sounds like a great topic! I agree Eleanor we need to choose the best from all ideologies and ditch the rest! :)”

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

I'm melting some pot as we speak!

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

(kidding)

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“United States, present and voting. Great to be here!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

Yay Rachel! Here she comes with bad ass commentary and getting us back on track

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

Hey Bea!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

that sounds awful lee - wrong drug. put the spoon down.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“Hi Lucy! :) and I never thought I'd be the one keeping people on track haha ;)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

free basing aside, so - anything we should snag from capitalism?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“How not to make an economy?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Voluntary trade and productivity?”

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

So my question in all of this - can factors of capitalism be used without it meaning that everything gets translated to profit and the environment is eaten alive?

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“How to stop using money.”

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I think it's possible that I may be the only rabid frothing at the mouth evil capitalist here.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

capitalism at its core, if i understand it correctly is about competition

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

nah david - i brought it up bc i happen to think that there are some parts of capitalism that are good

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

David - then you're a good person to ask. How can capitalism be used long term without it ultimately ending in corporate rule and an eat-your-neighbor world?

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I would draw a distinction between actual capitalism and crony capitalism.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

f.ex the idea of competition, and also the idea of investing in new technologies to push economic growth - as long as you invest in the right ones

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

I disagree David, Capitalism always ends in crony capitalism. It never won't be that. So capitalism IS crony capitalism.

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“How to stop depending on government mandated money.”

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Money isn't the problem its the lack of value in money that is the problem.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

why do you think capitalism is doomed? or do you mean holding onto capitalism as a whole? as opposed to picking parts of it like this tawk suggests

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“I don't think people get the idea money right now has no value. But there was a time when money was valuable.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“the competition should be who can create the longest lasting and most sustainable products and tech”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“The notion of corporate rule only works if government gets in bed with business and keeps other businesses out.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

totally agree rachel

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Which is exactly what is happening David.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

f.ex here in sweden, there are problems with monopolies - i.e. no competition, i.e. don't be a socialist purist either

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“tech is never long lasting. it always breaks just after the warranty ends”

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

Yeah, but is it as simple as Move To Amend and then we're fine? Or will money ALWAYS infect government?

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“Every household should be able to grow whatever they want and enjoy whatever free range livestock they desire without fear of a SWAT raid.”

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Capitalism will never fail because Socialism will bail it out. - Ralph Nader”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

not with the appropriate regulations, lee

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

Josh - totally true. Socialism bailed it out in 2008 and many times before.

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Yes, those with the most money win the competition, not most beneficial to society but economically perfect.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

it's not as simple as just passing an amendment and then going back to bed

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“"money" will always be a part of life,government. i guess its how you implement it in a way that everyone gets a fair share”

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

El - But bed is soft and cozy!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

i agree. even if we managed to put together a barter based economy, money or the acquisition of shit you need or think you need will have a huge say in policy

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I think there we tend to run into trouble. Someone then needs to decide "what's fair," and then you just exchange money for pull and friendship.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

the question is whether it runs the entire government

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“whats up lee eleanor and big steve”

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

Hey Barry! Don't ever be late again!!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“maybe currency shouldn't rule EVERY aspect of our lives, maybe we could decide that everyone deserves shelter and a place to grow food etc.. and money could still be used for other things but to stop holding it over everyone's heads over survival”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

@rachel - absolutely agree

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

those inalienable rights that ironically, the far right ensuring we don't have them always like to bring up

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

““You never change things by fighting the existing reality.nTo change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” n― R. Buckminster Fuller If we can keep the dominator police at bay”

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“sorry lee ..i was just finishing of a pizza”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

that's where bits of socialism come into play.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

people need enough money to live on

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Well, I don't want to grow my own food. I suck at that. So I'd rather be able to exchange my services that I'm good at, via currency or whatever, for someone who's better at it to grow food.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

they need health care, good education, a place to live, etc.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“My 9 year old son told me we should get rid of it, because it doesn't work if poor people can't buy food.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“like people are not socialists for not wanting money to be intertwined with everything”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“ah but if the prices were lower and the people owned more of what the made,would we need such a high wage?”

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“Unfortunately Money IS a mechanism of enslavement. There will always be inequality if it exists. Real money (One Eye) is Knowledge and good clean fuckin food!”

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“The day they passed Military Commissions Act the headlines were Senator Instant Messaging boys.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“How many people in this chat know that the dollar isn't on a gold standard?”

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

So you capitalists out there - Riddle me this. When we REALLY care about something, we refuse to use the market system. For example, helping your old mother up the stairs. If you tried to charge her for that, she would slap you. Why?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

i think most, josh - hasn't been for a while.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

that's why you need some socialism, lee

Lee Camp · 11:19 PM

So if we take things we care about OUT of the market system, can capitalism ever do that? Or will it always put a price on everything eventually.

Lee Camp · 11:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Lee: You're confusing money with currency.”

Lee Camp · 11:19 PM

David - I didn't say money or currency.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

i often times ask people who say "fuck socialism" when the last time they paid for a fireman before he turned on the hose to save their house was

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

capitalism is human-made, and must be regulated as such.

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

David - that's truly ridiculous what you just said.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

if you let people put a price on your grandmother, then fuck yeah, they'll go for it

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

You help your mother ONLY because of the value you gain?

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

Some of us might be against factory farms because they're MORALLY BANKRUPT not because it gains us value.

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“If you didn't you'd be a douche bag.”

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

David - you keep bringing up dollars. I haven't brought them up at all.

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“yes lee if i could sell my family members on ebay i would muahahahahahahahahahah”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

i think we're splitting hairs on that front. but i do agree with you david - that's a bit like saying that there's no such thing as unconditional love. there's always a condition - whether that just be the satisfaction of having a friend around, or

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Incidentally, Eleanor, fire departments used to be paid for before the fire -- you used to sort of buy an insurance policy and hang a metal thing on your door and then the fire department would come and if you didn't have the thing on your door”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“they'd let your house burn down.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

yep, and then we did away with that b/c it was a fucky system

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

although, that does happen these days as well - just in a more sneaky way

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

David - That system was disgusting. As was NOT having social security.

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Lee -- yep, I agree with you on that.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

which answers that question of whether capitalism will put a price on everything - if unchecked, and left "pure" so to speak, yes, it will

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Socialism saving your ass on a daily basis.”

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

Ah, so we get to the answer.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

pure socialism has its faults too though. it's quite clear here in sweden

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Good

“Perhaps we need another form of popular currency in addition to money. Money seems to have a monopoly on how we conduct business.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

mike, bartering is a good way around it. it's not currency per se but it can get you what you need without involving the almighty dollar

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Perhaps we need to have gold backed currency again instead of a fiat fractional banking system.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

with you there too josh. but it also has to do with how our economy is structured - no amount of gold will be enough for the greedy goons at the top

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“David is the sleezy business guy that wants to get your valuables.”

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Because paper doesn't have value gold does.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“What about a time baking system and infrastructure built to meet needs? I think in order for a nonviolent transition we need to start building these things at the small community level.”

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

Josh - Gold doesn't have value but the value we give it.

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

Gold just has a limited amount, dollars do not.

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Of course I'm a lizard person.”

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Are you a lizard person?”

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Gold has held its value since ancient times.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Because it was pretty.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

and rare. humans love shit that's hard for other humans to find and own

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

Josh - can promise you gold's value has not been EQUAL since ancient times. All we've hit on is that mankind likes SHINY SHIT.

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“true lee...in the iron age we valued round shiny stones !!!!”

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Look! Shiny metal! I want some shiny metal!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

either way, gold standard wouldn't fix all of our problems by a long shot

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“pity we still didn't valued round shiny stones because my garden is full of them ...lol david”

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

El - Agreed.

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“That is why they won't let us audit the Fed.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:28 PM

that being said, we need to have the fed controlled by the government

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“Eleanor doesn't much of Sweden's energy come from renewables such as imported garbage?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

yeah, we do that :)

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“but where did the gold idea originate? Not buying the intrinsic value idea or exchange notes. Cash = future firewood”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

swedes are damn creative and the environmental party is one of the strongest in the country

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“According to the original constitution the only people who should print and control money is the Treasury. We gave private banks control of the nations currency.”

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“And we're back to where we started -- if we have government controlling currency, gold backed or fiat, doesn't that effectively guarantee crony capitalism shows up?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

@David - does it? I don't think so. because we have checks and balances, infused with more than just capitalist ideologies

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

which, we were supposed to have in the first fucking place but that turned into checks and checks

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

how'd we get into owls, masons and lizards?

Lee Camp · 11:32 PM

Too many lizards. Not enough truth.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Good

“I think if regulations were strongly enforced and their weren't tax loop holes and off shore bank accounts and Citizen's United was overturned, capitalism would be too bad.”

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“I agree Lee.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

do you mean "wouldn't be too bad" mike?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yeah we need to take our regulations seriously again”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

amen, rachel - just having the damn things would be nice

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

how about those corporate charters? i could go for some of that

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“I think part of the problem is how much we value the currency when it is the be all and end all of human life its pretty easy to see how curruption happens. We need a currency so people can exchange with each other but it does need some kind of limit”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“"regulating" competition out.”

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

Oh man, I would love the corporate charters.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

checks and balances, david

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I feel like we just put these things in place and just expect no corruption, but Eleanor is right with humanity there will always be the douchebag looking for loop holes we need to be ready to always be watching our countries programs and government”

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

Localities could take away the charter of shitty corporations.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

which is just a beautiful concept isn't it? and makes so much sense!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Mass firings, then? Because once a corporation has a culture of corruption of the regulations, it's impossible to fix with ethics training.”

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“@LeeBOOM”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I agree Bea ethical and moral businesses and business models NEED to be the wave of the future”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

and employee-owned businesses

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“In America who use to be against Monopolies that is all that companies are now. Every single business in America is too big to fail because one corporations OWNS ALL OF EM!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“All TV stations in America are owned by 6 Corporations.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Localities are like State governments?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

yes bea

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

cities, counties, etc

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“what is going to happen when everything is automated...who's going to pay tax.....i cant imagine the terminator updating his 401k”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

monopolies are also a socialist problem - again, we need competition with regulation

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I do think we as individuals can do something by focusing on buying local, etc., whenever possible.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“And, quite frankly, activist investing.”

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

I know I keep saying this, and maybe David will have a comment, but as everything become automated, the savings (time and money) will ALWAYS go to the top, never to the workers. So ultimately NO ONE has a job and can support themselves.

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“The Government is suppose to clean house. But brilliant people like David got us thinking that money equals free speech and that Corporations can buy the governemtns”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

well in the current system, yes absolutely

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“I am just typing away and being censored...wow...but glad I taking screens shots.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yes buying local and supporting communities who are doing good things for society!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“That makes me sad because automation should be a good thing it should free up our time.”

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

John - What has been censored?

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

Paul - absolutely should be a good thing but it's not when the corporate elite suck up all the money and time from it.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“As long as global goods are cheaper than local goods, that's difficult to see happening.”

Lee Camp · 11:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Well, I don't have a comment as much as an observation -- automation tends to make goods less expensive. So I hear what you're saying, but there's a famous saying that capitalism's value isn't in making more silk for royalty but in enabling more”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I think you're right, Lee, in that automation tends to hit lower paying workers harder, since they're the first ones replaced.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Good

“I think what we really need is for some regulation and have some ceilings on how much the military, corporations, or CEOs can "earn" or receive in subsidies so it doesn't all go to the top. Throwing all the money to the top doesn't help anyone.”

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

David - but that silk is bought by people who have less and less buying power - because their jobs are taken away. It's a race to the bottom, see?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“And how do we deal with that -- do we outlaw the light bulb because it's replacing the candle, etc.?”

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“socialism=help your fellow man....capitalism=rob him when he's down”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

the thing is we have to make sure that our society advances along with industry, along with technology

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

Sooo many people could have jobs in the green energy industry, for example

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

No David, you give the savings (time and money) to the worker rather than to the top. But that won't happen in our system. It happens in co-ops or worker-owned businesses or socialist organizations like the NFL.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

And of course, part of keeping up with technological advances is education, which we waved bye bye to a while ago

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Socialism should be there where business only takes advantage of people. LIke Banking.... Medical...... School.......”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“But all the people in the coal and oil industry would go out of work, n'est pas?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

so you want to keep all those people making candles who could be making light bulbs david?

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“No, I really don't.”

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

I'm not surprised.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

well, we're on the same page then

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“ok who gets to make these regulations? the people in power? cos that didnt work. turn everything over to the public? personally i think that democracy 4.0 thing Lee was on about,might just work. hell,its better than a kick up the back side.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

i like the democracy 4.0 concept - but first we have to engage the populace

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

Our number for this tawk has gone from 1984 to 1990 - does that mean we're progressing or that Vanilla Ice is about to show up??

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“people would be less apathetic if we had more control over these decisions”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

how excited does that make you lee? i think that's the more pertinent question

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Oil is destroying our state here in Louisiana and people notice and get pissed. What good are a few thousand oil jobs that will be gone once all the oil has been sucked from the Earth.”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@Lee - i hope its vanilla ice and not mc "i got ants in my pants" hammer”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

true josh - that's why we have to invest in new technology, educate and train as we evolve socially and technologically

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Goodwin

“Sometimes I wish we could do away with indirect representatives and also election cycles. Washington politicians care too much about maintain their seat rather than do what the majority want.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

Michael - that's the democracy 4.0 concept

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

basically, the people vote on an issue and if enough votes come through a certain way, they don't need the rep

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

Yeah, I talked about Democracy 4.0 in the last Redacted Tonight

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

if they don't the rep steps in to handle it on behalf of the people, maintaining their needs and interests first

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“I'd like to at some point get away from the jobs = prosperity idea no amount of money is worth grinding out a week to rest for two days thats not living life.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

yep. living life does not equal having a job

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“You're always free to do that, Paul, aren't you?”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

By the way - if anyone wants to watch the entire Redacted Tonight after we're done, the episode is here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL3OxT9Xl8Q

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

David, not if you're rummaging through today's job market

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“I'd say use the internet to vote since our 'money' is safe there but idk”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

yes, go watch that episode!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

once we're done here

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“if some 15 year old kid can help solve how to clean the sea of plastic crap, we must be heading the right direction,right? THATS the way we have to go. encourage the kids to think about stuff,to help others out. instead of sticking them in front of”

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

Yeah, we trust the internet for our money (90% of money is never printed) and yet we can't find a way to vote with it?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“not really I have obligations and people who depend on me I managed not working for awhile but had to jump back into it”

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Sure, but you can decide, "Hey, this sucks, I'm going to go move to the middle of nowhere and live off the land."”

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“great episode last week Lee! :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

what if you don't want to do that, david?

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

Thanks Rachel!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

let's say i want to live in NYC but can't afford it because there aren't enough jobs that pay enough

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:48 PM

and nyc is an extreme example b/c it's so expensive. that really applies anywhere

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“Ifg I don't get escorted out by a militarized police force and I've always planned on my retirment being me wandering off into the wilderness”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

David, he shouldn't have to move to the middle of nowhere. Maybe we need a society that doesn't require 24/7 work to afford a reasonable life (and this gets back to automation only helping the rich)

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Then that's your decision, and you can balance, "I want to live in NYC vs. I want to live somewhere else and work less."”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

ha! your idealism is nice but not realistic

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

David, that's ridiculous. People in Ohio are poor as hell and can't find work (a lot of them)

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“I would love to work for a better future but I hate working to maintain a destructive present”

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Three day work weeks.”

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Joshua Richoux

“Here in New Orleans after Katrina all the poor people are being pushed out. Because rich people are coming in. Buying up all the property. Tearing down the affordable housing that was there and building mansions.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

the fact of the matter is that in this current economic structure and our purist oligarchy, people can not live well, if they can even survive at all

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

Josh - That's the shock doctrine. Wait for tragedy and then exploit it.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

which by the way, everyone should absolutely read

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I want to live in NYC. I can't afford to live in NYC (and I work like a psycho, incidentally). So I live in NJ and I commute.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I wish I lived in the West Village, but I made a decision to move to the burbs where I could have more space.”

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

David - Is that really how you feel life should work? You may love your job, but most don't.

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“How do we shift the focus to people, then.”

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“I see the answer as John said on your show Lee, but I would go even further beyond congress because so many people are 3rd i blind as well😂”

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I'm not sure I love my job, but I like being able to provide more to my family. But that's the decision I'm making.”

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“It's MY choice.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:51 PM

decision making based on living in the city in a smaller space and living in a house in the burbs

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

David - When you say "MY" choice you're acting like you're free. But in fact you're being pushed around by societal force. It's societal violence that you're viewing as freedom.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

is not the same as the decision whether to feed your child or yourself

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I can get a job where I earn less money and work less.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

a lot of people can't get jobs at all, david

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

David - you seem to miss the point that people live in the middle of nowhere and still can hardly afford food.

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

Hell, living in your car is becoming criminalized.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

was back when i tried it fucking 8 years ago in LA

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

then again LAPD are assholes

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Goodwin

“Sometimes I wonder what would happen if America really did split after the Civil War. We seem to have the same polarization of thought that we did back then.”

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“if you really want to be free buy yourself a tent and live in the hills where you can start your own moonshine business”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

well the south is still fighting the civil war michael - in many parts

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

Barry - half of what you just said would probably get you arrested

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“I live in a small cheap town I have a job and a rental house and live with 4 people just scraping by”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“why is the lapd so hated ...they look so cool in the movies”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:54 PM

yeah barry, so does predator but i wouldn't wanna run into him either

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I'm actually not missing that point, Lee -- I'm responding to the notion of "Boy, I wish we could all lie around looking at clouds and reciting poetry and only work 3 days a week, because everything else would be exactly the same."”

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

David - Sometimes it's worth your time to think of a NEW reality.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“I would argue that sitting around staring at clouds is more productive than my fulltime job”

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“You could say we're all fighting a war against slavery still.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

AND i would argue that the US brainwashes people into thinking that working 5 days a week from 9-5 is just what humans are meant to do

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

Paul has a point David. What if that full time job is helping a weapons contractor. Isn't writing poetry better for the world?

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“And you're entitled to choose to do that. But you can't then complain that you don't also have cable TV and air conditioning and food.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

there's a reason european countries are pushing for a 4 day work week, or a 6 hour day

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

And David, you just made my point. You are "free" to do that, but you won't have food. Is there any better description of societal force??

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“I'd never complain about not having cable TV”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

amen Paul!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:57 PM

societal force = you must work to buy your food. nature = humans need food

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:57 PM

not the same thing

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

Yes, but there is quite literally enough food in this world for everyone to live happily but capitalism makes sure that many get very very fat and many other starve to death - hundreds of thousands a year. That's unfettered capitalism.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

if i'm homeless in sweden, for example, i know i can find food. and not just b/c it's not illegal for people to give food to the homeless

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

in LA? having been homeless, i can say for a fact, not easy to find food unless you find a way to beg for it or buy it

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

is that right? is that the kind of society we want?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

not me.

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

Hey folks we have to wrap up. You're free to keep talking! Thanks for joining us! We're here EVERY Tuesday. Tell your friends! And watch Redacted Tonight every week!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“In Davids defense he's only doing what he has been idoctrinated to do. Expressing his subconscious entrainment and loyalty to a meat machine that hates all of us equally”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“food and water should be free, or at least we should all have the option and resources (land, water) to grow food”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“Lee is right. and some guy traveled around Europe proving this. he went lived of what he found in bins. proving just how much waste food we throw away.”

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

Here's the link to every Redacted video clip - http://bit.ly/RedactedTonight

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

Thanks so much for joining us!!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

Make sure you join in next week - every Tuesday 4pm PST

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

And I have a weekly podcast called "Moment of Clarity" on iTunes and Stitcher

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“great tawk Lee and Eleanor, as always! Night everyone! :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

Let us know if there are any topics you want us to cover

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

Listen to Eleanor's music if you want happiness in your life!

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Goodwin

“Oh poo it's time to go!”

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Nyberg

“Thank you guys have a great day”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

;) rooftoprevolutionaries.com artkillingapathy.com

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

Night!

Forum · 335

Forum· 335 comments

2,204 visitors

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 10:58 PM

selfie plug - if anyone wants to plugs these tawks,heres a handy poster for you - https://twitter.com/DickiesBint/status/494190031784136705

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 10:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Looking forward to this tawk Lee & Eleanor! Bring it on :-)

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:00 PM

will smoke signals do

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

Well, I'm here too.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

dont think so?...*goes to check*

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:03 PM

i only see me on the chat lol

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

But I'm a Jewish semi-religious carnivorous lawyer who talks politics...

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:04 PM★ Spotlighted

i blame...erm....who can i blame?

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:04 PM

1984...

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:04 PM

Hmmm...

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:04 PM★ Spotlighted

made it! where the father figure is everyone?

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:04 PM

everyone but the good people,right?

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee Sheeeeit

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:05 PM

A week before Tisha B'Av...

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:05 PM

yay! party on dude!

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

Good morning...had to get me coffee together.

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee God damit hahaha

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

its just turned midnight here

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:07 PM★ Spotlighted

hello everyone! sounds like a great topic! I agree Eleanor we need to choose the best from all ideologies and ditch the rest! :)

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:07 PM

we are spreading ourselves across the globe! what a thought

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:07 PM★ Spotlighted

United States, present and voting. Great to be here!

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:07 PM

hey rach! my fellow podcaster to be :-)

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:08 PM★ Spotlighted

Hi Lucy! :) and I never thought I'd be the one keeping people on track haha ;)

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:08 PM

melting hemp into biodegradable plastic lee? :)

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:08 PM★ Spotlighted

How not to make an economy?

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:08 PM★ Spotlighted

Voluntary trade and productivity?

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:08 PM

what is captilism? in layman's terms

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:08 PM

Uh, oh.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

How to stop using money.

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:09 PM

In Chiang Mai Lee

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

I think it's possible that I may be the only rabid frothing at the mouth evil capitalist here.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:09 PM

the idea of small business is a good one, keep things local and sustainable

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

Money isn't the problem its the lack of value in money that is the problem.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

How to stop depending on government mandated money.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:09 PM

trade = growing own crops, growing animals....

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

I would draw a distinction between actual capitalism and crony capitalism.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:10 PM

Not with a government with properly limited powers.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

I don't think people get the idea money right now has no value. But there was a time when money was valuable.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

the competition should be who can create the longest lasting and most sustainable products and tech

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:11 PM

considering there IS no money to begin with,its all made up bull crap, maybe that would be a goos place to start...

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

The notion of corporate rule only works if government gets in bed with business and keeps other businesses out.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

Which is exactly what is happening David.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:12 PM

I agree with you, Joshua -- my point is that's not capitalism.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

tech is never long lasting. it always breaks just after the warranty ends

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

Every household should be able to grow whatever they want and enjoy whatever free range livestock they desire without fear of a SWAT raid.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

Capitalism will never fail because Socialism will bail it out. - Ralph Nader

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:12 PM

Sovereignty, Anarchonism, take away planned obsolescence @reachael ;)

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:13 PM

If we're trying to pick the right pieces, then we should be recognizing that a lot of what gets laid on "Capitalism" is really capitalism when government uses force to pick a winner.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:13 PM

we need a more intrinsically motivated society; we need to depend less on money/numbers on a screen

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes, those with the most money win the competition, not most beneficial to society but economically perfect.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

"money" will always be a part of life,government. i guess its how you implement it in a way that everyone gets a fair share

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

I think there we tend to run into trouble. Someone then needs to decide "what's fair," and then you just exchange money for pull and friendship.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:14 PM

The problem in America is the people.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:14 PM

It's just a different currency.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

whats up lee eleanor and big steve

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:15 PM

They don't want to think and they refuse to. So people who are in control do whatever they want by waving stupid news stories in headlines to distract you from what they are doing.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:15 PM

barry, you do know Lee is dishing out smack bottys for lateness?

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

maybe currency shouldn't rule EVERY aspect of our lives, maybe we could decide that everyone deserves shelter and a place to grow food etc.. and money could still be used for other things but to stop holding it over everyone's heads over survival

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:15 PM

The day troops invaded Gaza plane shot down.

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.nTo change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” n― R. Buckminster Fuller If we can keep the dominator police at bay

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

sorry lee ..i was just finishing of a pizza

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM

I'd consider a ban on money as part of an emergency environmental hazard if it would mean shutting down the most corrupt industries. We will survive.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

Well, I don't want to grow my own food. I suck at that. So I'd rather be able to exchange my services that I'm good at, via currency or whatever, for someone who's better at it to grow food.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM

rach,you mean money or currency? currency is what you call dollar or a pound....

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

My 9 year old son told me we should get rid of it, because it doesn't work if poor people can't buy food.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

like people are not socialists for not wanting money to be intertwined with everything

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM

to *not be intertwined

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

The day they passed Military Commissions Act the headlines were Senator Instant Messaging boys.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:17 PM★ Spotlighted

ah but if the prices were lower and the people owned more of what the made,would we need such a high wage?

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:17 PM★ Spotlighted

Unfortunately Money IS a mechanism of enslavement. There will always be inequality if it exists. Real money (One Eye) is Knowledge and good clean fuckin food!

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:18 PM

That's a very nice bumper sticker, but instead of money, how do you propose we divvy up resources?

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

How many people in this chat know that the dollar isn't on a gold standard?

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:18 PM

money is the root of all evil - i think thats how the saying goes.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:18 PM

Lucy -- it's Love of Money is the root of all evil.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:18 PM

And I happen to disagree completely.

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:18 PM

@David First we would have to identify psychopaths and remove them from positions of power

Mike GoodJul 29, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

Perhaps we need another form of popular currency in addition to money. Money seems to have a monopoly on how we conduct business.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:19 PM

no lucy the love of money is the root of all happiness

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:19 PM

@David - still money tho,wither you love it or not

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:19 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee: You're confusing money with currency.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:19 PM

If they knew it wasn't on the Gold standard then you wouldn't question why there is no value in money.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:19 PM

I gain value by helping my old mother up the stairs.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:19 PM

That's still capitalist in nature.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:19 PM

That is the reason there is no value in money. But when we didn't have the Fed and the dollar was backed by Gold is when we were prosperous. Is when the middle class was growing. Is when the dollar had buying power.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:19 PM

Capitalism (real capitalism) involves trades on a voluntary basis.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:20 PM

ah so we are talking cash now...i'll have whatever you can spare

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:20 PM

Which part.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:20 PM

I help my mother because I love my mother -- that counts as a gain.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:20 PM

I value my mother.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:20 PM

That counts as what is right.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:20 PM

Value isn't always dollar based.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:20 PM★ Spotlighted

If you didn't you'd be a douche bag.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

yes lee if i could sell my family members on ebay i would muahahahahahahahahahah

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:21 PM

Educate non psychopaths with their inherent immutable and binding Natural Law rights, maybe merge resource based/ time share/ voluntary economy?

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

Incidentally, Eleanor, fire departments used to be paid for before the fire -- you used to sort of buy an insurance policy and hang a metal thing on your door and then the fire department would come and if you didn't have the thing on your door

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:21 PM

we need to utilize open source education and information in our new paradigm too! :)

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

they'd let your house burn down.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:21 PM

Yes, it's a tool for us to use. If it's not useful why do we still think it's valuable?

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM

What gives you value is what you contribute to this world. If all you can contribute is a way to make money off people you have no value in life sir.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM

Didn't work very well.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM

the bugblatter beast of traal would sell his grandmother AND mother

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM

david

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM

Now we have a socialist style of local government.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM

Yeah, but the ravenous bugblatter beast is pretty stupid. You can just cover your head with a towel.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM

no one life is more important than another and unfortunately systems like ours thrive off somebody having to be pushed to the bottom... or at least that is what it has become

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee -- yep, I agree with you on that.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:22 PM

You pay property taxes and all those taxes are divided up amongest police, fire, schools, hospitals and libraries.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

Socialism saving your ass on a daily basis.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:23 PM

and 51%on the arky joshua

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:23 PM

And I think what we're talking about here is how much do we say -- this works or this is correct, and how much are we gonna mush together capitalism and socialism or whatever.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:23 PM

army josh

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:23 PM

Army is in no way socialist.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:23 PM

Now, my feeling is that there should be a little intrusion as possible in everything.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:23 PM

we pay tax to fund police,firemen,ambulances etc. thats why it keeps going up. they dont have enough money to serve us all. well,thats what they say

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:24 PM

Government should be the solution of last resort.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

Perhaps we need to have gold backed currency again instead of a fiat fractional banking system.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:24 PM

A different way to conduct business with money..I like that idea.

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

What about a time baking system and infrastructure built to meet needs? I think in order for a nonviolent transition we need to start building these things at the small community level.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM

Joshua -- I hear that a lot, but how is shiny metal better than pretty paper?

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM

i have the answer...dictatorship..it would be ok as long as the guy wasn't a complete dick

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

Because paper doesn't have value gold does.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

David is the sleezy business guy that wants to get your valuables.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM

I think I see his eyes shape shifting.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM

currency and money are two totally different things. and besides,who makes "money"? the banks do. they make it out of thin air.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

Are you a lizard person?

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

Of course I'm a lizard person.

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM

Money is the biggest religion. I would gladly volunteer more than half my time supporting a holistic sytsem that didnt subvert my human spirit

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM

How about open source everything?

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM

That's correct, Lee.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

Gold has held its value since ancient times.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM

It's just a medium of exchange.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

Because it was pretty.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM

Why is gold worth more dollars now then a few years ago? Because the dollar is worth less.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

true lee...in the iron age we valued round shiny stones !!!!

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

Look! Shiny metal! I want some shiny metal!

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM

you know who has the most gold in the world? the women in india. the us doent have any,nor does the uk.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:27 PM

That is the value of anything. If I make one prototype of a vehicle its worth more money than if I mass produce it.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

pity we still didn't valued round shiny stones because my garden is full of them ...lol david

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:28 PM

Because the Fed took us off the gold standard and sold off the gold.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:28 PM

And we'd have to do more than another thing like the petrodollar switch.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

That is why they won't let us audit the Fed.

Mike GoodJul 29, 2014, 11:28 PM

Unfortunately, I think capitalism has been exploited by those who are good at playing "the game". The system would have to radically change in some other direction to see any noticeable difference.

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

Eleanor doesn't much of Sweden's energy come from renewables such as imported garbage?

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:28 PM

Far be it from me to love the Fed, since I think they do a fair amount of damage, but I don't think it really matters.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:28 PM

@Barry I agree let's transition to something we all have easy access to for new currency. monsanto corn kernels? :p

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:29 PM

money is going explode,anyways. its going to be worthless soon. how soon,i dont know

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:29 PM

eleanor why are you not valued more GOLDfields ...everywhere

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

but where did the gold idea originate? Not buying the intrinsic value idea or exchange notes. Cash = future firewood

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:29 PM

@eleanor - unlike it is now. the fed controlling the government

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

And we're back to where we started -- if we have government controlling currency, gold backed or fiat, doesn't that effectively guarantee crony capitalism shows up?

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

According to the original constitution the only people who should print and control money is the Treasury. We gave private banks control of the nations currency.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:29 PM

I don't know what would happen if Americans just all of a sudden lost half their purchasing power.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:30 PM

all this talk about gold quick question..has anyone here got some gold

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:30 PM

Who else owns the fed? The Crown? Vatican? UN?

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:30 PM

The government doesn't control the Fed. The Fed is a privately owned bank. The only thing Federal about the Fed is the name.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:30 PM

Bea -- Us lizard people. I'm also a Freemason, incidentally.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:30 PM

David is whats wrong with America.

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:30 PM

Rothchild/Rockafeller?

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

Yeah, I'm it.

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

what degree Dave?

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

He doesn't see any fear from secret organizations because that is what he does.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

I'm only a 3rd degree Mason.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

Do you worship an owl statue?

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

rothchild..is that the geezer who looks like mr burns from the simpsons

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

That also seemed to make its way onto the dollar bill?

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

for anyone who wants to know how money and currency works,and who controls the FED,watch this - http://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:31 PM

Who controls the British Crown, Who keeps the metric system down.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:32 PM

We dooooo.....

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:32 PM

Only people not on the metric system is the USA so you failed that one.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:32 PM

El -- Joshua has decided that I run the world.

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:32 PM

I believe Sweden is way more squared away than USA, but I also believe America could be the same and even better with some housecleaning.😜

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:32 PM

He helps.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:32 PM

refresh your browser eleanor ..we were talking about lizards for awhile

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:32 PM

So aren't you in a good position to influence my thinking now? Hmmmmm....

Mike GoodJul 29, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

I think if regulations were strongly enforced and their weren't tax loop holes and off shore bank accounts and Citizen's United was overturned, capitalism would be too bad.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:33 PM

You've got the ear of the all-powerful Controller.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

I agree Lee.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:33 PM

@Lee - thats where YOU come in,right?

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

yeah we need to take our regulations seriously again

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

I think part of the problem is how much we value the currency when it is the be all and end all of human life its pretty easy to see how curruption happens. We need a currency so people can exchange with each other but it does need some kind of limit

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:33 PM

As well as putting people in positions of responsibility who dont want to be there unlike-pssssychos

Mike GoodJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM

I really need to spell check before clicking enter, I sound like a 5 year old

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM

But here we run into trouble again -- when we regulate, we often end up "regulatin

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

"regulating" competition out.

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM

I would start with the supremes and take a major vacuum cleaner and suck up two pieces of dirt and then move to the capital before on jong lee sends a missile from N. Korea.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM

mike tax loopholes could easily be closed but they are left open for the crook around whitehouse

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

I feel like we just put these things in place and just expect no corruption, but Eleanor is right with humanity there will always be the douchebag looking for loop holes we need to be ready to always be watching our countries programs and government

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM

So Lee you say that Bohemian Grove doesn't exist?

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

Mass firings, then? Because once a corporation has a culture of corruption of the regulations, it's impossible to fix with ethics training.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM

So we regulate on behalf of Wal-Mart to keep credit card fees down, and banks make up the difference by raising user fees directly.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:34 PM

make corporations what they are - buildings NOT PEOPLE!!! make them pay taxes,give people a fairer wage etc it would be a freakin sart

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

@LeeBOOM

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

I agree Bea ethical and moral businesses and business models NEED to be the wave of the future

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

In America who use to be against Monopolies that is all that companies are now. Every single business in America is too big to fail because one corporations OWNS ALL OF EM!

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:36 PM

Lee -- that's an idea, but how do we keep it from just being Coke calling Pepsi a shitty business and having the government decharter them?

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:36 PM

Obama passed Affordable Care Act to buy "Private Insurance" and now all Insurance companies are owned by 3.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

Localities are like State governments?

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

All TV stations in America are owned by 6 Corporations.

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:37 PM

It is really just a matter of some house cleaning and who is going to clean house😝

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:37 PM

companies and the individual worker need to reconnect and remember this is a reciprocal relationship; you can't have one without the other, and start treating the situation as such. respect goes a long way!

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

what is going to happen when everything is automated...who's going to pay tax.....i cant imagine the terminator updating his 401k

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:37 PM

we have employee owned businesses here

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

I do think we as individuals can do something by focusing on buying local, etc., whenever possible.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:37 PM

So in theory State governments can reject agreements with the Fed.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

And, quite frankly, activist investing.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

The Government is suppose to clean house. But brilliant people like David got us thinking that money equals free speech and that Corporations can buy the governemtns

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

yes buying local and supporting communities who are doing good things for society!

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

I am just typing away and being censored...wow...but glad I taking screens shots.

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

That makes me sad because automation should be a good thing it should free up our time.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:39 PM

the tawk has been infiltrated

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:39 PM

i cant think of one business where some kind of auotmation has occurred. But who will program these "robot"? and who will take the blame when it all goes arse upwards? the people will,most likely

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

Well, I don't have a comment as much as an observation -- automation tends to make goods less expensive. So I hear what you're saying, but there's a famous saying that capitalism's value isn't in making more silk for royalty but in enabling more

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:39 PM

people to buy silk.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:39 PM

damn nsa are at it again ....dear nsa go spy on ed snowden #burnafterreading

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

As long as global goods are cheaper than local goods, that's difficult to see happening.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:40 PM

I have a buddy who works on the River unloading cargo here in New Orleans. He just said today that he is sad because his whole summer he is stuck working 24 and 48 hour shifts while he sees most of his friends take multiple trips to the beach.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:40 PM

Thank Capitalism.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

I think you're right, Lee, in that automation tends to hit lower paying workers harder, since they're the first ones replaced.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:40 PM

Especially in the US where people just go for the cheapest.

Mike GoodJul 29, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

I think what we really need is for some regulation and have some ceilings on how much the military, corporations, or CEOs can "earn" or receive in subsidies so it doesn't all go to the top. Throwing all the money to the top doesn't help anyone.

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:40 PM

We should all just make a sentence with israel in it for a fun time.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

And how do we deal with that -- do we outlaw the light bulb because it's replacing the candle, etc.?

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

socialism=help your fellow man....capitalism=rob him when he's down

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:41 PM

Things like the free food movement can help free up areas where people would normally spend a lot of their money, so they could use it for others things

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:41 PM

support free movements and open source; save where you can

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:41 PM

I agree Mike!

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

Socialism should be there where business only takes advantage of people. LIke Banking.... Medical...... School.......

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

But all the people in the coal and oil industry would go out of work, n'est pas?

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:42 PM

@El You looked into teslas work? HUGE threat to the oil cabal

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

ok who gets to make these regulations? the people in power? cos that didnt work. turn everything over to the public? personally i think that democracy 4.0 thing Lee was on about,might just work. hell,its better than a kick up the back side.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:42 PM

in uk and ireland tesco locks the waste bins now to stop people taking the waste food that they are chucking out anyway

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

No, I really don't.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:43 PM

That's my point -- I think when we talk about how automation is going to screw the little guy, we're effectively forgetting that there will be something else coming down the pipe.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

people would be less apathetic if we had more control over these decisions

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:43 PM

What happens with advances in technology isn't That's not the only thing that's not passed down the ladder. What happens when technology isn't released to society because of competition.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

Oil is destroying our state here in Louisiana and people notice and get pissed. What good are a few thousand oil jobs that will be gone once all the oil has been sucked from the Earth.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:44 PM

fuck yeah...ice ice baby

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:44 PM

We should have better businesses that hire more workers and are less reliant on fucking over people and the places they live.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee - i hope its vanilla ice and not mc "i got ants in my pants" hammer

Michael GoodwinJul 29, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

Sometimes I wish we could do away with indirect representatives and also election cycles. Washington politicians care too much about maintain their seat rather than do what the majority want.

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:45 PM

Can you imagine if all of us tawkers were members of congress and having to deal with the status quo corporate (not green) lobbyist? I would be having so much fun!

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:45 PM

hey lucy...mc hammer was they bizshitz

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:45 PM

Like a common law or natural law court?

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

I'd like to at some point get away from the jobs = prosperity idea no amount of money is worth grinding out a week to rest for two days thats not living life.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:46 PM

Or how about proportional representation? http://www.usparliament.org/stv.php

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

You're always free to do that, Paul, aren't you?

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

I'd say use the internet to vote since our 'money' is safe there but idk

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:47 PM★ Spotlighted

not really I have obligations and people who depend on me I managed not working for awhile but had to jump back into it

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:47 PM★ Spotlighted

if some 15 year old kid can help solve how to clean the sea of plastic crap, we must be heading the right direction,right? THATS the way we have to go. encourage the kids to think about stuff,to help others out. instead of sticking them in front of

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:47 PM★ Spotlighted

Sure, but you can decide, "Hey, this sucks, I'm going to go move to the middle of nowhere and live off the land."

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:47 PM★ Spotlighted

great episode last week Lee! :)

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:47 PM

the tv and wtaching their mind turn to mush

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:48 PM

pftttt voting...why is nobody considering my dictatorship idea .....i can work i promise ...if it doesn't work out you all can stew over it while in the gulag thinking about what you did wrong

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

Ifg I don't get escorted out by a militarized police force and I've always planned on my retirment being me wandering off into the wilderness

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

Then that's your decision, and you can balance, "I want to live in NYC vs. I want to live somewhere else and work less."

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:48 PM

Why isn't that an evaluation you can make?

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM

we can make some new city the coolest place to live Eleanor, and make everything free! :)

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM

i so wish there was a way that could help those want to build a business for themselves. help them make something of themselves and give back to their community. am i wrong but there isnt,is there?

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

I would love to work for a better future but I hate working to maintain a destructive present

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM

gulag...theres plenty of work for everyone breaking rocks

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

Three day work weeks.

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

Here in New Orleans after Katrina all the poor people are being pushed out. Because rich people are coming in. Buying up all the property. Tearing down the affordable housing that was there and building mansions.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM

You're still making an evaluation.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM

no bea 6 days a week

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM

Increasing property values and making it impossible for the poor people who made this city able to live here.

Michael GoodwinJul 29, 2014, 11:49 PM

It would be nice if there was a bell curve of resources and finances distributed amongst everyone rather than a exponential curve.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

I want to live in NYC. I can't afford to live in NYC (and I work like a psycho, incidentally). So I live in NJ and I commute.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

How do we shift the focus to people, then.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:50 PM

and they say its all getting better,that things are turning up. like crap it is.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

I wish I lived in the West Village, but I made a decision to move to the burbs where I could have more space.

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:50 PM

but the human physiology is fueled by demon coin didnt you know!? slacker commies ;)

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

I see the answer as John said on your show Lee, but I would go even further beyond congress because so many people are 3rd i blind as well😂

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

I'm not sure I love my job, but I like being able to provide more to my family. But that's the decision I'm making.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

It's MY choice.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

I can get a job where I earn less money and work less.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:51 PM

i agree david

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:52 PM

lol in the burbs

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:52 PM

more space for what? to put more goods bought from the already rich fat cats and oligarchs? isnt that what we are trying to stop

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:52 PM

It should be an intregal part of obamacare...hahahaha

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:52 PM

Well, whether I was pushed into being a lawyer because I chose it or because the people in the Hadassah Chapter of Great Neck made me like it, I'm still choosing that.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:53 PM

think about socioeconomics and its link to racism and the under privileged, these people do not have the same choices as affluent people. there are such HUGE disparities within our country because of money that we should take that seriously

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:53 PM

The jobs are a problem of the corruption and the lack of regulations, let's get back to that. How do we enforce our demands/

Michael GoodwinJul 29, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if America really did split after the Civil War. We seem to have the same polarization of thought that we did back then.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

if you really want to be free buy yourself a tent and live in the hills where you can start your own moonshine business

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:53 PM

there just arent that many full time jobs. whay? cos company's dont have to pay as much tax on a part time as they would on a full time

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

I live in a small cheap town I have a job and a rental house and live with 4 people just scraping by

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM

I don't think so Michael.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

why is the lapd so hated ...they look so cool in the movies

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

I'm actually not missing that point, Lee -- I'm responding to the notion of "Boy, I wish we could all lie around looking at clouds and reciting poetry and only work 3 days a week, because everything else would be exactly the same."

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM

@Michael Hagalian Dialectic = Problem reaction Solution .

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM

That's not reality.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM

why lee am i rambling

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

You could say we're all fighting a war against slavery still.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM

It wouldn't be.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:55 PM

It can't be.

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:55 PM★ Spotlighted

I would argue that sitting around staring at clouds is more productive than my fulltime job

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:55 PM

but then you are equating laziness with free will; free will to do as one wants, which inherently is imo to create and contribute to the world in their own unique ways

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:55 PM

oh and dont even bother coming to live in london,unless of course you have at least £250,00 ($425,000)- i'm not kidding

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:55 PM★ Spotlighted

And you're entitled to choose to do that. But you can't then complain that you don't also have cable TV and air conditioning and food.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:55 PM

how come in those predator movies nobody ever considered kicking him in the nuts

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 29, 2014, 11:56 PM

Put me in charge of the USPS and I guarantee to create 100,000 career positions with a nice living wage, excellent benefits while performing meaningful & needed work!👊

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:56 PM

Fighting. Meaning, doing things besides our jobs. Taking action and failing over and over again.

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

I'd never complain about not having cable TV

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:56 PM

THat's not societal force. That's nature. I gotta eat.

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:56 PM

I agree Eleanor. Even more, they are telling the future workforce you will have more responsibilities during a career, possibly ten times more.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:56 PM

yes eleanor its cuz they want to knock of work early to go smoke some weed

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:57 PM

Societal influence might be the cable TV. Which Paul can do away with.

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:57 PM

thats cos theres crap all on tv anyways

Joshua RichouxJul 29, 2014, 11:57 PM

I just want HBO.

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:57 PM

i was at a hotel the other night, never get to watch cable (don't have it) and i was all excited, ended up turning it off in like 10 mins and just going on the net like usual :p

Michael GoodwinJul 29, 2014, 11:57 PM

It seems like the South and conservatism heavily weigh down the possibility of change. It seems like America is like a marriage of thought that we can't quite seem to workout.

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:58 PM

Well, how does the magical food get to the plate?

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:58 PM

i used to think cable tv was when it had a scart lead plugged into the back of the tele ...niave

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

food and water should be free, or at least we should all have the option and resources (land, water) to grow food

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

In Davids defense he's only doing what he has been idoctrinated to do. Expressing his subconscious entrainment and loyalty to a meat machine that hates all of us equally

phil chipperJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM

Same team bro

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee is right. and some guy traveled around Europe proving this. he went lived of what he found in bins. proving just how much waste food we throw away.

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM

I actually lived off the land out here for over a month before I found the job I have now

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM

I think it's getting better Michael. We are slowly moving from ideologies to people.

Barry HamillJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM

farewell homies

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM

I'd like to see our taxes go to paying for our water and power though

David KaufmanJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM

I appreciate that, Phil -- but I'm a lizard person Freemason. I'm the Indoctrinator... ;)

Rachel McDonnellJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

great tawk Lee and Eleanor, as always! Night everyone! :)

Lucy DyerJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM

damn awesome tawk Lee and Eleanor! damn i might just have to come again :-) You guys Rock!!

Professor BeaJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM

I wish I had some practical takeaway...

Michael GoodwinJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Oh poo it's time to go!

Paul NybergJul 29, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Thank you guys have a great day

Professor BeaJul 30, 2014, 12:00 AM

Thanks all.

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 30, 2014, 12:00 AM

After traveling around the world it easily become clear that America is seriously being sabotaged. How could ruins exist like that in Detroit?

David KaufmanJul 30, 2014, 12:00 AM

That was fun!

Barry HamillJul 30, 2014, 12:00 AM

oh lee can you please make your youtube vids able to show in europe

Professor BeaJul 30, 2014, 12:01 AM

Topics: Natural Law and Pure Proportional Representaiton

phil chipperJul 30, 2014, 12:01 AM

Fuck yes Bea

Johnathonfall thethirdJul 30, 2014, 12:03 AM

is anybody else experiencing censorship while tasking.

Matthew BellAug 1, 2014, 5:22 PM

I'll be joining in next week