Jordan Birnbaum

Host

Don't Worry, Be Happy.

Oct 25, 2013·29 visitors

Rebecca Westbrook Toker

Cohost

Stage· 347 messages

Oct 25, 2013

Rebecca and I pontificate on the living ramifications of deciding to pursue happiness through your career above all else. (Spoiler alert: it's good for you.)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

Good evening, all. Glad you're here!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

Hi everyone! and by everyone I mean Lucy, Simon, Rebecca and all of Rick's personalities..

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Only you, me and Lucy, Simon. It's a good thing I have multiple personalities.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

Hey, Jordan. :)

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

Hi - so we're gtathered here tonight to discuss the pursuit of happiness...through our careers. Pipe dream or reality?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hey JB and Rebecca!!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

hi lucy!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:31 AM

Hey, Lucy!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Not through my career, apparently.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

r life.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

you're not alone, pal

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

Shit!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

I lost most of that thought...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

technical problems, Becca?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:33 AM

Just babies on my lap while I'm typing!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“mmmm dont know if you can call what i do a "job" as such. it can be a right pain in the arse sometimes. but other times it brings me so much joy.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

Well, I guess we have to define what "happiness" means first...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:33 AM

What I was trying to say was that happiness probably isn't found solely through career pursuits, but by integrating your career into the larger fabric of your life, you've got a better shot at attaining happiness.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Happiness equals no desire for demise, for starters.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“happiness means something different to everyone”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:34 AM

yes -well said. Glad we got to the bottom of that!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

Thos things, yeah. Not wishing to shoot yourself in the head is a good indicator that what you're doing is at the least not damaging to you. :D

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

Well, Rick's observation is actually indiciative of a pretty pervasive problem.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

It is so hard to even find a job that doesn't in some way involve exploitation of someone or something...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

I heard this wonderful quote in a lecture from Joel Salatin today:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

"Every day we are writing a story and a legacy that will be told about us and wouldn't it cheapen our lives if we're just doing 'the expedient thing'?"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“I know I'm happy when I lose the desire to self-lobotomize with an ice pick.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

So Rebecca -have you had any major life decisions / changes to your career that were made in an effort to align your career with your life?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

That's a loaded question. I was going to start with your experience. :D

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

It is vastly important for our work to have meaning.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

I think we can all agree on that point.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

When it doesn't, the psyche suffers.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

But do you think that is the case for most people?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i know what would make me happy - if JB bought one of my prints hehe”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

I don't know what the percentage of American citizens on happy pills is (and I've been one of them), but it's HIGH, and includes kids, teens and adults.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

Kids need happy pills for a variety of reasons, but the public school system contributes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

do you think that is an indication that people are miserable in general? and how much do we attribute that to career?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“From what I see, most people are too shallow to even know what self-realization might be.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

For many kids, and especially for teens as they begin to develop metacognitive skills and better analytical capabilities, they can sense that they're in a bullshit factory.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

Well, that doies give them some practical experience for what thyey're going to experience in their careers

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

The way that you spend most of your waking hours matters to your overall outlook on life.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

LOL

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

That's too true, and that's why it's fucking depressing!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

I wonder to what extent things have changed. Do you think the stable companies of 1950's America generated more happiness from work?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

Rick, I think that most people know that they're engaged ina bullshit job in a bullshit system, but they keep trying to placate themselves with the ever-present consumer items from which to self-soothe.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

I agree with both points, BUT...in defense of people...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

what choices do we really have? ESPECIALLY when you have a family...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:44 AM

I think that workers in the 1950s enjoyed quite a bit more honor than they enjoy these days. Labor unions were big and so wages and benefits were high,

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“I're read that the best time to live - happily - in the U.S. was between 1900 and 1912ish.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“I've heard the best time to live is... now.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

Hey Blake -curb your enthusiasm!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

families didn't have to be double-income, and the steady, skilled worker was given considerably more respect.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

That was the product of over 100 years of hard fighting.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

It MEANT something. People actually WERE doing better than their parents.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

People COULD provide a good life for their children.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:46 AM

So are we going to tie all of this back to Reagan-era union-busting middle-class destroying policies?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

Everything wasn't perfect, for sure, but it can be said that the status of the blue-collar worker was considerably higher than today.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“http://digitalbuddhist.com/post/64952431716/you-are-this-universe-and-youre-creating-it-at”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

Blake, that's exactly it! That's EXACTLY IT!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

Well, tell that to a kidnapped child soldier...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

Jordan, that wasn't the intent, but it certainly plays a part. I think Rick is more qualified to Tawk about this than I am.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“I feel I have totally jumped into this tawk and distracted everyone... Sorry JB and Becca!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

There's no such thing as distraction on Tawkers

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“I love Woody Allen'a attitude: life is full or horror, pain and suffering - and its all over too soon.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

Jordan, I hear your point, but it's larger than one human. It's all of us together. I believe that you and I are just as responsible for the shit that's happening in Africa as the people who are kidnapping that kid.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“While Im here though... how does everyone like this new feature that lets ALL comments be seen by everyone and the hosts right away in Tawks with less than 25 Tawkers??”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

I mean, like I didn't have enough guilt already?!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

Blake, emphatically YES. Love it!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

Now the plight of Africa is OUR fault?! Man...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“about time!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“It's great, particularly when the audience is small.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

I know, right? Like I don't have enough keeping me up at night?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

It's a hit out of the park, Blake.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

But the point is, that by not refusing to let this kind of thing happen, but allowing these things to be someone else's problem, we allow it to continue to exist in the world.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

Which is a lot to take on.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

But it ties into career happiness in this way:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

If you continue to be a cog in a system you despise - or that makes you despise yourself, then you're part of the problem.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“I just figured out how to get job satisfaction. Change careers.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

ANd that's what I'm talking about, Rick.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

I think both R&R's points are correct. The problem is ramifications and responsibilities.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“But easier said than done.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

Sometimes you have to be a good Boyscout and complete your contract, or feed your family, or whatever, but you aren't stuck FOREVER in something that you hate.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“happiness to me is knowing that my art can make someone smile. The fact anyone likes em is enough :-)”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

And that's brave, Lucy.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

Lucy, you're blessed to have that in your life.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

It's especially brave that you stand behind it and live it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

That is a woman with a VAGINA (shout out to Betty White).

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Brave, but it won't keep you in perrier and sushi.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“"working for money is the lowest form of human existence"”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

Those ancient greek philosophers, they really hold up over time

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

like The Larry Sanders Show

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

It's true, but if Perrier and sushi are just treats you indulge in to try to make yourself feel like your life sucks less, then you deserve all the fucking Perrier you can drink.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

But I like Perrier...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i mean,damn i sold a print to Dylan Brody for F**ks sake!! i was on cloud nine for the rest of the day!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

I have to bring that comment in. Holy crap, Lucy, that's EXCELLENT!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

Agreed!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:56 AM

OK - but seriously -in my life, I have had the luxury of chasing fulfillment in my career and changing jobs and taking risks for two main reasons: a) no wife b) no kids. I don't know how anyone else can do that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

Well, I have a family, and now I have a kid, and I'm just now getting around to taking the risks because I feel like there's no better reason to be a happy person than to raise a happy kid.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

I am the highest-degreed person in my household.\

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

I should be the one with the job I hate paying the mortgage.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

But I'm not.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

I'm at home with my kid (mostly) because that's what I want and what I believe kids need.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:58 AM

Yes - but I feel like you're being forced to take risks with much hiugher stakes because you're a Mom. And why should I benefit from emotional baggage that's kept me from forming a family?!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

That'smore like a handicap, Jordan.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“You're not dead yet, Jordan.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:59 AM

Yes -I am working on myself to open myself up to these possibilities...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

You're sorting yourself out and trying to go int he right direction as best you can.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:59 AM

jinx!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

I've got plenty of sortingto do.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

We ALL do.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

OK - so Becca you're currently alteriung your career for just this reason, right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

The reason we all do is that we live, not in a vacuum, but in a society with a whole lot of embedded expectations and assumptions.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

We all have a major case of "The Shoulds" to get over.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

good point

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

It's a crippling disease, and it's under-diagnosed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

I'm altering my career because my career wasn't what I thought it would be...which is true for most people who get a degree and go chasing a career path.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

but your born into this world and it takes most of us 25-90 years to even start thinking this way...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

I'm a teacher.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

(That's true)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

I was born to teach.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

I taught my sister to read when I was in kindergarten and she was 3.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

So true - economics degree, and my first job was a financial trader. SO not me.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

I was just born that way.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

You and Lady Gaga

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

I got through school well because I was (am) a people-pleaser.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

LOL. SHe was born THAT way.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i am a born "social worker"....have been told that many a time”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

I loved college for the first few years, then it began to suck as I got pigeon-holed in my major classes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

social workers and teachers are part of the same genum

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

But I thought it was worth it, because I wanted to teach.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

education major?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

But then I got to public school, and that wasn't teaching.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

what was it?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“I got a PhD in Psych. Worthless, and drove me crazy.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

go back to teach it, Rick!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

Yeah, I was Elementary ed and special ed with Spanish as a minor. But my Spanish classes were done. :( It sucked. i would literally count the number of times I heard "cute" in each class to get myself through.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Teaching something might be a grand idea.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

No shit, Rick!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

I was so peeved at the bureacracy!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

what - they were calling you cute?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

And also, I had a class of kids with autism. They were poorly served by our facility and I couldn't fix that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

They were violent because we did not have adequat facilities and that was terrifying. And then I got pregnant.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

No, they were not calling me cute, it was just the only adjective that w room full of teachers in training could use apparently.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“trouble is,i found out my heart has way too much love to give. yes i care far too much for my own good”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:08 AM

ahh - OK so back to your frustrations with teaching

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

That is why I didn't go into social work! I volunteered at a shelter, but it was too emotionally draining!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

The public system sucks.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Really sucks.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

Especially for kids with special needs.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:09 AM

So is it merely a question of resources?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:09 AM

does ideology come into play?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

And by staying in the system, I am being complicit in the continues functioning of an insufficient paradigm.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

That is a big question, Jordan, and it requires a long response that involves history of the Industrial Revolution...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

got it -it does seem like a Sophie's Choice. You can't stay in the system, but you can't take the kids with you.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Short answer: the system was created to produce workers who were sufficiently educated to fill factory slots. It's archaic. We can do better and we MUST do better.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

ANd it was like a Sophie's Choice situation: I couldn't do the best that I knew or the best I felt, so I was set up to feel like a failure every day.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

Or get out.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

SO I got out.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

I think you made the only choice you could - but I'm sure it came with a lot of anguish

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Good on you, honey.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

or was it actually easy?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

I got this other wonderful quote from the Joel Salatin lecture: "If we devote ourselves to sacredness in our vocation, the world will rise to meet us."

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

nice!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

And what happened was exactly that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

I found a woman who was running a tutoring center, and I got on there and worked through my PTSD from the public school job (not even kidding).

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

still special needs kids?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

And I saw that it was possible to actually teach in an ideal situation: me + one student. It was beautiful.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“that's awesome Rebecca, it must be very fulfilling too. :)”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

Yeah, but I have so much weird experience, I can take special needs kids, kids with emotional and behavioral needs, and adults, too. So I got a range of students and proved to myself again that I am more than capable.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

Thanks, guys.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

so in that setting, was it more like being a counselor than a teacher?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

It's teaching, but REALLY teaching (in my opinion).

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

When they come for tutoring, there's a problem.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

It's like a puzzle.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

You have to figure out where the breakdown is and remediate.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

so when you found yourself totally digging this new job, what did you notice about your mood in general? and your relationships? and your Tawking?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

And you do it by establishing a connection and a feedback loop.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

This all happened a few years ago.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

(well, I couldn't say your "conversations" now could I?)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

I didn't realize how much the job had taken out of me. I was literally ill. And I was much...smaller.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

you mean smaller in a metaphysical way?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

I mean, it's like I shrank into myself. I was capable of less, at least ihe confines of the job became my personal confines.n my own mind. T

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

That goall chopped up.t

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Ah!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Keyboard problem.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Hold on!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

I mean, it's like I shrank into myself. The confines of the job became my personal confines, at least in my own mind.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

Well, I wass going to imrpov, but now you'reback

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

it's spilled into the other areas of your life?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

So that's why i know that your job is important to the flow of your whole life.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

I don't think there is such a thing as "just a job."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“work sure has a way of trapping us doesn't it? that's why there is a difference between working and doing something fulfilling they are not always the same thing.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Haha, Rick. No one looks happy there...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Ever been to Walmart?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

Do you think that sometimes when people seem shallow or callous it is because they have to do so in order to cope with the career situiations?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Um, yes.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

No doubt.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

like if they felt any empathy, they'd be forced to evaluate themselves differently, and that's too scary?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

And when you do that in one area of your life, it inevitably spills over.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

So, now we need to talk about you in more SPECIFIC terms.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

You ave had similar experiences.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

So...do tell!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“love this bit.... :-)”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

yes, I have undertaken 3 major career changes in my life so far.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Tee hee.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

Lucy knows this bit...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Not tee hee at you, at Lucy.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

Only the first one, when I was a market-maker of Japanese equity warrants in London, was I in a job that brought me the kind of soul-killing experience we tawk about here

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

I couldn't pretend I didn't know the game I was a part of -and it was not OK.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“there's a job you don;t hear about every day.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

but the other traders were my friends,I was young and making good money...it was hard to overlook those things

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

but at my core I knew it wasn't right for me, and I think it led me to a depression, until I decided I had to act. So I resigned and returned back to the US.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i can just imagine JB as a yuppie. great big brick phone in one hand....”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

Yeah -I was so not me, it's incredible.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

I was really focused on being hugely successful - what I actually did was almost secondary.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

Unfortunately for a large percentage of very "successful" people, this is the case, and it is a desperate existence.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

That's kind of chilling when you stop to think about it...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

yes -it's the ultimate "the ends justify the means" existence. It's based on nothing.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“I was at Juno. He was there, and then he wasn't.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

So like you, I had an amazing set of circumstances conspire to land me at Juno Online Services a full year before we launched.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

Now Juno was interesting - because it transitioned from something I loved with all my heart into something I kind of despised.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

Ugh.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

And the thing that triggered that transtion was our going public.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Yeah...that puts one in an odd emotional position. Very confusing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:33 AM

If Juno remained a private company with a pioneering spirit, I would have loved staying there.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

Dude, I totally feel you! Peace Corps was that way for me! I went in already committed to extending service to 3 or 4 years, but when the time came to extend my contract, i was OUT.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

But once you get intertwined with the investment banks and quarterly numbers and quarterly reports, you start participating in a game that is ultimately about stuff I didn't want any part of.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

That;s another thing Joel Salatin talks about often.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

He's a "lunatic farmer" who pontificates about being brave anough to just do what you want to do.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

He says that many people try to follow their dreams but then get enmeshed in the accounting.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:36 AM

Yes -exactly

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

I've seen it happen.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

I worked for my now Mother-in-law when she started her first dance studio.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

worst thing that could happen is have it be successful lol

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

She wanted to dance, not run the ffice. But the school got too big too fast and she was miserable.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

friggin irony

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

She found a manager and moved to Georgia! :D

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

Now she has another studio, but it's only one room, so it has to stay small!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“are you a thrill seeker,JB?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

I don't think of myself that way. But there are some people who are afraid to take risks. I am afraid not to take risks.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i have so much to look forward to then lol”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

HIRE AN ACCOUNTANT, LUCY! You just keep painting.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

I am literally fearful of getting to the end of my life and feeling regret

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

That's a good motivator, but it also borders on a bad case of the Shoulds.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

Yeah, I suffer from the Shoulds.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

I'm working very hard to shed it...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

The key is balance...and happiness (hopefully), not gnawing yourself up from the inside with worry about what you OUGHT to do. ;)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Gotta go. Love to all.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

night Rick - right back at ya

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

But I should talk. I'm neurotic as fuck, I just try to hide it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

well, we all are, right?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

I mean -we can focus on the goal, but vcan't actually achieve it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

unless you're, I don't know, BUDDHA?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

That's probably true.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

I don't know, I mean, I just see people struggling with this everywhere, every day.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

me too. it makes me very sad.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

My husband, bless his heart, has never fit anywhere.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

School was horrible for him.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

Work has been more of the same.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

And it's because he needs work that lets him stretch and grow.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:44 AM

Well, he got you, so it ain't all bad.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

And WE ALL DO.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

We are at a time in history where the cultural ideas we have accepted lead us to believe in personal fullfillment and finding meaning.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

We have these concepts. Without the actual fullfillment part, we are miserable.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

But industry evolved divergently.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

And it's not serving US to continue to serve IT.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

There HAS to be a better way.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

there is. and the majority of humans want it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

The best I know is just being able to call bullshit on the system you're in and on yourself when necessary.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

and imagine alternate possibilities

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

And to refuse to participate when possible, in the things that make you want to shoot yourself.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

And to CREATE the alternatives.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:47 AM

we also need to get clear and honest about our intentions

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

Going back to what Blake was saying, we have to create a universe in which we can be happy and fulfilled.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

Yes. Honesty is key.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:47 AM

when we realize WHAT we are trying to accomplish, it's a lot easier to come up with a clever plan.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

And all of that radiates outward.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

In a variety of ways.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

Your commitment to an honest intention makes it so much more likely that you'll find a way to do what you need to do.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:48 AM

yep

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

And your fearlessness in pursuing an alternative does shine a light for others. People being to think that it's possible.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:49 AM

All of this, btw, is why I LOVE Tawkers.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

it's about sharing visions and connecting and inspiring and informing and soothing and loving

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

And possibility breeds possibility. When you're radiating outward, actively pursuing, shining, you also open doors for other people. You HELP. You make it better, so that more people can be happier.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

and laughing. always laughing.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Agreed. :)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

OK -that was a nice inspirational burst

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Ha! I guess it was!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

let's just keep tawking about the world we want.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

BTW, I keep thinking about Lucy selling a print to Dylan Brody. Good on you!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

yeah, that's pretty cool.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I think that Tawking and DOING get us closer.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I really do.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I think it matters.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

And I think we can't hear it enough.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

People can't hear enough that the soul-sucking that they feel is REAL and they shouldn't just find something arbitrary in a shitty situation to be grateful about.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

I think people need to hear that the soul-sucking is INDEED damaging, and that they can save themselves.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“and i'm back!! damn internet went out”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Missed you!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

I saw something on FB the other day to the effect of: "They tell you to be yourself, but then shit on you when you do."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Right!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

I think people are afraid to speak up

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“missed you too!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

I have been told my whole life not to do whatever I was doing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“got a question for you: would you rather someone was honest with you?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

always

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

I was told by my teachers not to pursue teaching, for example.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

gross

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

As if anyone knows better than you do what feels like the right thing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

It's too much for right now, but I have been itching to ask you about Teachers' Unions...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

If opinions are like assholes, I am more heartily invested in my own than anyone else's.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

lol

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“now there's a quote!! lol”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

agreed

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

Even if you ARE doing something that you're not going to do for the rest of your life, WHO THE FUCK CARES??? WHo knows what it will lead to.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

So what? I went to school and got a degree to do something I don't really want to do. It still changed my outlook.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

and was therefore worth it

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

I don't speak Spanish every day, either, but I can still think that way and understand more people because of it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

de acuerdo.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

I am not a professional dancer, but dance gave me soemthing intangible that has been very important.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

I don't cook professionally...and on and on.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

well, I am heartened because I feel like you have built a very full life, and are a great role model

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

I do things, I learn things, I practie things because they make me a whole human. In that process of becoming, i get closer to fulfilling whatever might be here for me to fulfill.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

We all have tha potential, and it's time for out stupid social expectations and systems to stop squashing that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

So, at some point we're going to have to start outlining the new social structures we want to advocate

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

just not tonight...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

It's time for something new. The only should is that you should find out what makes you happy. Unless it's squashing bugs - because then we'll have to talk.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

And, yes.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

We'll draw the outlines here on Tawkers.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

Sometime.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

yes - leave the poor bugs alone!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“some people just dont realise they are role models.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

well said my friend

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

OK guys - are we ready to call it a night?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Looks that way. :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Thanks for being here.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

this was fun -filled me with hope

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

It was so nice Tawking with you.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

always

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“thanks you guys!! love you both. :-)”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Thanks for making this possible, Jordan et al on the Tawkers team.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

right back at ya

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

Lucy AND Rebecca

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Thanks, Lucy.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Good night!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

nite!

Forum · 81

Forum· 81 comments

29 visitors

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:29 AM★ Spotlighted

Only you, me and Lucy, Simon. It's a good thing I have multiple personalities.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:30 AM

hello? this thing on?

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:31 AM★ Spotlighted

hey JB and Rebecca!!

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:32 AM★ Spotlighted

Not through my career, apparently.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:32 AM★ Spotlighted

mmmm dont know if you can call what i do a "job" as such. it can be a right pain in the arse sometimes. but other times it brings me so much joy.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:34 AM★ Spotlighted

happiness means something different to everyone

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:34 AM★ Spotlighted

Happiness equals no desire for demise, for starters.

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:35 AM★ Spotlighted

I know I'm happy when I lose the desire to self-lobotomize with an ice pick.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:36 AM

self labotomise? wow! are you double jointed,Rick?

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:39 AM

I agree, Rebecca.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:39 AM★ Spotlighted

i know what would make me happy - if JB bought one of my prints hehe

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:40 AM★ Spotlighted

From what I see, most people are too shallow to even know what self-realization might be.

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:41 AM

I, unfortunately, know what I don;t have.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:43 AM

Lee Camp talks about kids on pills in this video,so true too - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gouahhbEVU

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:43 AM★ Spotlighted

I're read that the best time to live - happily - in the U.S. was between 1900 and 1912ish.

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:45 AM★ Spotlighted

I've heard the best time to live is... now.

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:45 AM

Hello Blake! Yes, the alternative is undesirable.

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:45 AM

check out my blog post from this morning actually! hahah

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:46 AM★ Spotlighted

http://digitalbuddhist.com/post/64952431716/you-are-this-universe-and-youre-creating-it-at

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:46 AM

Alan Watts speaking specifically about NOW

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:46 AM

Isn't he dead?

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:47 AM

He is... NOW

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:47 AM

well if Blake found it....can we go home now? i want a cookie! WHO STOLE MY COOKIE??

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:48 AM★ Spotlighted

I feel I have totally jumped into this tawk and distracted everyone... Sorry JB and Becca!

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:48 AM★ Spotlighted

I love Woody Allen'a attitude: life is full or horror, pain and suffering - and its all over too soon.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:48 AM

yeah Blake.....you...you....head turner you!

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:49 AM★ Spotlighted

While Im here though... how does everyone like this new feature that lets ALL comments be seen by everyone and the hosts right away in Tawks with less than 25 Tawkers??

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:49 AM★ Spotlighted

about time!

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:49 AM★ Spotlighted

It's great, particularly when the audience is small.

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:50 AM

LOVE that Woody quote too Rick

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:50 AM

i'm not even gonna say what keeps me up all night..phew!!

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:50 AM

Well JB was campaigning for it for a long time... so y'all can thank him! (and Rachael)

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:51 AM

JB has all the brilliant ideas...well only the ones i give him

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:51 AM★ Spotlighted

I just figured out how to get job satisfaction. Change careers.

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:52 AM★ Spotlighted

But easier said than done.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:52 AM★ Spotlighted

happiness to me is knowing that my art can make someone smile. The fact anyone likes em is enough :-)

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:53 AM

I forget if it was Aristotle or Plato, and I have no idea what the exact quote is.. but one of them said something along the lines of...

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:53 AM

took me bloody long enough to realise that!

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:53 AM★ Spotlighted

Brave, but it won't keep you in perrier and sushi.

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:53 AM★ Spotlighted

"working for money is the lowest form of human existence"

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:53 AM

dont care,Rick.

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:54 AM

Groovy, Lucy. I wish i didn;t.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:54 AM★ Spotlighted

i mean,damn i sold a print to Dylan Brody for F**ks sake!! i was on cloud nine for the rest of the day!!

Blake IanOct 25, 2013, 1:54 AM

Ya'll be sure to bring some happiness questions for Dr Chopra tomorrow!

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:54 AM

No, i just love sushi.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:56 AM

thanks guys!! :-)

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:56 AM

Toro really gets me off.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:58 AM

just because you have a degree does not mean you know everything or are the most quilified

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 1:58 AM

i have diddly-squat but i know an awful lot about american politics...

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 1:59 AM★ Spotlighted

You're not dead yet, Jordan.

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 2:00 AM

Lao Tsu: I am the least of all men because I think instead of living. (paraphrase)

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:03 AM★ Spotlighted

i am a born "social worker"....have been told that many a time

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 2:05 AM★ Spotlighted

I got a PhD in Psych. Worthless, and drove me crazy.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

i wish i had gone into social care but i was way too shy to do anything about it

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 2:05 AM★ Spotlighted

Teaching something might be a grand idea.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

trouble is,i found out my heart has way too much love to give. yes i care far too much for my own good

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:09 AM

sucks over here too

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 2:12 AM★ Spotlighted

Good on you, honey.

Rachel McDonnellOct 25, 2013, 2:15 AM★ Spotlighted

that's awesome Rebecca, it must be very fulfilling too. :)

Rachel McDonnellOct 25, 2013, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

work sure has a way of trapping us doesn't it? that's why there is a difference between working and doing something fulfilling they are not always the same thing.

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

Ever been to Walmart?

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

love this bit.... :-)

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 2:27 AM★ Spotlighted

there's a job you don;t hear about every day.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

i can just imagine JB as a yuppie. great big brick phone in one hand....

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

I was at Juno. He was there, and then he wasn't.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

are you a thrill seeker,JB?

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:35 AM

in other words,you kinda went back to something that got out of. thats probably why you didnt like it

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

i have so much to look forward to then lol

Rick RosnerOct 25, 2013, 2:41 AM★ Spotlighted

Gotta go. Love to all.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:53 AM★ Spotlighted

and i'm back!! damn internet went out

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:54 AM★ Spotlighted

missed you too!

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:54 AM★ Spotlighted

got a question for you: would you rather someone was honest with you?

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:56 AM★ Spotlighted

now there's a quote!! lol

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:57 AM

here here

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:58 AM

i speak perfect gibberish :-) its self taught too

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 2:59 AM★ Spotlighted

some people just dont realise they are role models.

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 3:01 AM

maybe

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 3:02 AM

why what else you gonna call it? hehe

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 3:02 AM★ Spotlighted

thanks you guys!! love you both. :-)

Lucy DyerOct 25, 2013, 3:03 AM

na-night!

butterfly skySep 22, 2014, 6:43 PM

Hi everyone