Jordan Birnbaum

Don't Worry, Be Happy.

Oct 25, 2013

RT
Stage· 347 messages
Oct 25, 2013

Rebecca and I pontificate on the living ramifications of deciding to pursue happiness through your career above all else. (Spoiler alert: it's good for you.)

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

Good evening, all. Glad you're here!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

Hi everyone! and by everyone I mean Lucy, Simon, Rebecca and all of Rick's personalities..
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

Only you, me and Lucy, Simon. It's a good thing I have multiple personalities.

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

Hey, Jordan. :)
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

Hi - so we're gtathered here tonight to discuss the pursuit of happiness...through our careers. Pipe dream or reality?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

hey JB and Rebecca!!

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

hi lucy!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:31 AM

Hey, Lucy!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

Not through my career, apparently.

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

r life.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

you're not alone, pal
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

Shit!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

I lost most of that thought...
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

technical problems, Becca?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:33 AM

Just babies on my lap while I'm typing!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

mmmm dont know if you can call what i do a "job" as such. it can be a right pain in the arse sometimes. but other times it brings me so much joy.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

Well, I guess we have to define what "happiness" means first...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:33 AM

What I was trying to say was that happiness probably isn't found solely through career pursuits, but by integrating your career into the larger fabric of your life, you've got a better shot at attaining happiness.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

Happiness equals no desire for demise, for starters.

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

happiness means something different to everyone

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:34 AM

yes -well said. Glad we got to the bottom of that!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

Thos things, yeah. Not wishing to shoot yourself in the head is a good indicator that what you're doing is at the least not damaging to you. :D
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

Well, Rick's observation is actually indiciative of a pretty pervasive problem.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

It is so hard to even find a job that doesn't in some way involve exploitation of someone or something...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

I heard this wonderful quote in a lecture from Joel Salatin today:
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

"Every day we are writing a story and a legacy that will be told about us and wouldn't it cheapen our lives if we're just doing 'the expedient thing'?"
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

I know I'm happy when I lose the desire to self-lobotomize with an ice pick.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

So Rebecca -have you had any major life decisions / changes to your career that were made in an effort to align your career with your life?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

That's a loaded question. I was going to start with your experience. :D
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

It is vastly important for our work to have meaning.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

I think we can all agree on that point.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

When it doesn't, the psyche suffers.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

But do you think that is the case for most people?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

i know what would make me happy - if JB bought one of my prints hehe

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

I don't know what the percentage of American citizens on happy pills is (and I've been one of them), but it's HIGH, and includes kids, teens and adults.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

Kids need happy pills for a variety of reasons, but the public school system contributes.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

do you think that is an indication that people are miserable in general? and how much do we attribute that to career?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

From what I see, most people are too shallow to even know what self-realization might be.

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

For many kids, and especially for teens as they begin to develop metacognitive skills and better analytical capabilities, they can sense that they're in a bullshit factory.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

Well, that doies give them some practical experience for what thyey're going to experience in their careers
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

The way that you spend most of your waking hours matters to your overall outlook on life.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

LOL
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

That's too true, and that's why it's fucking depressing!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

I wonder to what extent things have changed. Do you think the stable companies of 1950's America generated more happiness from work?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

Rick, I think that most people know that they're engaged ina bullshit job in a bullshit system, but they keep trying to placate themselves with the ever-present consumer items from which to self-soothe.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

I agree with both points, BUT...in defense of people...
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

what choices do we really have? ESPECIALLY when you have a family...
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:44 AM

I think that workers in the 1950s enjoyed quite a bit more honor than they enjoy these days. Labor unions were big and so wages and benefits were high,
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

I're read that the best time to live - happily - in the U.S. was between 1900 and 1912ish.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

I've heard the best time to live is... now.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

Hey Blake -curb your enthusiasm!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

families didn't have to be double-income, and the steady, skilled worker was given considerably more respect.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

That was the product of over 100 years of hard fighting.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

It MEANT something. People actually WERE doing better than their parents.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

People COULD provide a good life for their children.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:46 AM

So are we going to tie all of this back to Reagan-era union-busting middle-class destroying policies?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

Everything wasn't perfect, for sure, but it can be said that the status of the blue-collar worker was considerably higher than today.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

http://digitalbuddhist.com/post/64952431716/you-are-this-universe-and-youre-creating-it-at

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

Blake, that's exactly it! That's EXACTLY IT!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

Well, tell that to a kidnapped child soldier...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

Jordan, that wasn't the intent, but it certainly plays a part. I think Rick is more qualified to Tawk about this than I am.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

I feel I have totally jumped into this tawk and distracted everyone... Sorry JB and Becca!

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

There's no such thing as distraction on Tawkers
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

I love Woody Allen'a attitude: life is full or horror, pain and suffering - and its all over too soon.

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

Jordan, I hear your point, but it's larger than one human. It's all of us together. I believe that you and I are just as responsible for the shit that's happening in Africa as the people who are kidnapping that kid.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

While Im here though... how does everyone like this new feature that lets ALL comments be seen by everyone and the hosts right away in Tawks with less than 25 Tawkers??

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

I mean, like I didn't have enough guilt already?!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

Blake, emphatically YES. Love it!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

Now the plight of Africa is OUR fault?! Man...
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

about time!

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

It's great, particularly when the audience is small.

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

I know, right? Like I don't have enough keeping me up at night?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

It's a hit out of the park, Blake.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

But the point is, that by not refusing to let this kind of thing happen, but allowing these things to be someone else's problem, we allow it to continue to exist in the world.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

Which is a lot to take on.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

But it ties into career happiness in this way:
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

If you continue to be a cog in a system you despise - or that makes you despise yourself, then you're part of the problem.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

I just figured out how to get job satisfaction. Change careers.

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

ANd that's what I'm talking about, Rick.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

I think both R&R's points are correct. The problem is ramifications and responsibilities.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

But easier said than done.

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

Sometimes you have to be a good Boyscout and complete your contract, or feed your family, or whatever, but you aren't stuck FOREVER in something that you hate.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

happiness to me is knowing that my art can make someone smile. The fact anyone likes em is enough :-)

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

And that's brave, Lucy.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

Lucy, you're blessed to have that in your life.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

It's especially brave that you stand behind it and live it.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

That is a woman with a VAGINA (shout out to Betty White).
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

Brave, but it won't keep you in perrier and sushi.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

"working for money is the lowest form of human existence"

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

Those ancient greek philosophers, they really hold up over time
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

like The Larry Sanders Show
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

It's true, but if Perrier and sushi are just treats you indulge in to try to make yourself feel like your life sucks less, then you deserve all the fucking Perrier you can drink.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

But I like Perrier...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

i mean,damn i sold a print to Dylan Brody for F**ks sake!! i was on cloud nine for the rest of the day!!

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

I have to bring that comment in. Holy crap, Lucy, that's EXCELLENT!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

Agreed!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:56 AM

OK - but seriously -in my life, I have had the luxury of chasing fulfillment in my career and changing jobs and taking risks for two main reasons: a) no wife b) no kids. I don't know how anyone else can do that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

Well, I have a family, and now I have a kid, and I'm just now getting around to taking the risks because I feel like there's no better reason to be a happy person than to raise a happy kid.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

I am the highest-degreed person in my household.\
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

I should be the one with the job I hate paying the mortgage.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

But I'm not.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

I'm at home with my kid (mostly) because that's what I want and what I believe kids need.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:58 AM

Yes - but I feel like you're being forced to take risks with much hiugher stakes because you're a Mom. And why should I benefit from emotional baggage that's kept me from forming a family?!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

That'smore like a handicap, Jordan.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

:P
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

You're not dead yet, Jordan.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:59 AM

Yes -I am working on myself to open myself up to these possibilities...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

You're sorting yourself out and trying to go int he right direction as best you can.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:59 AM

jinx!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

I've got plenty of sortingto do.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

We ALL do.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

OK - so Becca you're currently alteriung your career for just this reason, right?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

The reason we all do is that we live, not in a vacuum, but in a society with a whole lot of embedded expectations and assumptions.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

We all have a major case of "The Shoulds" to get over.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

good point
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

It's a crippling disease, and it's under-diagnosed.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

I'm altering my career because my career wasn't what I thought it would be...which is true for most people who get a degree and go chasing a career path.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

but your born into this world and it takes most of us 25-90 years to even start thinking this way...
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

I'm a teacher.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

(That's true)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

I was born to teach.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

I taught my sister to read when I was in kindergarten and she was 3.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

So true - economics degree, and my first job was a financial trader. SO not me.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

I was just born that way.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

You and Lady Gaga
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

I got through school well because I was (am) a people-pleaser.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

LOL. SHe was born THAT way.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

i am a born "social worker"....have been told that many a time

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

I loved college for the first few years, then it began to suck as I got pigeon-holed in my major classes.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

social workers and teachers are part of the same genum
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

But I thought it was worth it, because I wanted to teach.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

education major?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

But then I got to public school, and that wasn't teaching.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

what was it?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

I got a PhD in Psych. Worthless, and drove me crazy.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

go back to teach it, Rick!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

Yeah, I was Elementary ed and special ed with Spanish as a minor. But my Spanish classes were done. :( It sucked. i would literally count the number of times I heard "cute" in each class to get myself through.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

Teaching something might be a grand idea.

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

No shit, Rick!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

I was so peeved at the bureacracy!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

what - they were calling you cute?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

And also, I had a class of kids with autism. They were poorly served by our facility and I couldn't fix that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

They were violent because we did not have adequat facilities and that was terrifying. And then I got pregnant.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

No, they were not calling me cute, it was just the only adjective that w room full of teachers in training could use apparently.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

trouble is,i found out my heart has way too much love to give. yes i care far too much for my own good

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:08 AM

ahh - OK so back to your frustrations with teaching
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

That is why I didn't go into social work! I volunteered at a shelter, but it was too emotionally draining!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

The public system sucks.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Really sucks.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

Especially for kids with special needs.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:09 AM

So is it merely a question of resources?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:09 AM

does ideology come into play?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

And by staying in the system, I am being complicit in the continues functioning of an insufficient paradigm.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

That is a big question, Jordan, and it requires a long response that involves history of the Industrial Revolution...
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

got it -it does seem like a Sophie's Choice. You can't stay in the system, but you can't take the kids with you.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Short answer: the system was created to produce workers who were sufficiently educated to fill factory slots. It's archaic. We can do better and we MUST do better.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

ANd it was like a Sophie's Choice situation: I couldn't do the best that I knew or the best I felt, so I was set up to feel like a failure every day.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

Or get out.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

SO I got out.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

I think you made the only choice you could - but I'm sure it came with a lot of anguish
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

Good on you, honey.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

or was it actually easy?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

I got this other wonderful quote from the Joel Salatin lecture: "If we devote ourselves to sacredness in our vocation, the world will rise to meet us."
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

nice!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

And what happened was exactly that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

I found a woman who was running a tutoring center, and I got on there and worked through my PTSD from the public school job (not even kidding).
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

still special needs kids?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

And I saw that it was possible to actually teach in an ideal situation: me + one student. It was beautiful.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

that's awesome Rebecca, it must be very fulfilling too. :)

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

Yeah, but I have so much weird experience, I can take special needs kids, kids with emotional and behavioral needs, and adults, too. So I got a range of students and proved to myself again that I am more than capable.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

Thanks, guys.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

so in that setting, was it more like being a counselor than a teacher?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

It's teaching, but REALLY teaching (in my opinion).
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

When they come for tutoring, there's a problem.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

It's like a puzzle.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

You have to figure out where the breakdown is and remediate.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

so when you found yourself totally digging this new job, what did you notice about your mood in general? and your relationships? and your Tawking?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

And you do it by establishing a connection and a feedback loop.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

This all happened a few years ago.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

(well, I couldn't say your "conversations" now could I?)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

I didn't realize how much the job had taken out of me. I was literally ill. And I was much...smaller.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

you mean smaller in a metaphysical way?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

I mean, it's like I shrank into myself. I was capable of less, at least ihe confines of the job became my personal confines.n my own mind. T
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

That goall chopped up.t
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Ah!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Keyboard problem.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Hold on!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

I mean, it's like I shrank into myself. The confines of the job became my personal confines, at least in my own mind.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

Well, I wass going to imrpov, but now you'reback
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

it's spilled into the other areas of your life?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

So that's why i know that your job is important to the flow of your whole life.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

I don't think there is such a thing as "just a job."
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

work sure has a way of trapping us doesn't it? that's why there is a difference between working and doing something fulfilling they are not always the same thing.

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Haha, Rick. No one looks happy there...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

Ever been to Walmart?

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

Do you think that sometimes when people seem shallow or callous it is because they have to do so in order to cope with the career situiations?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Um, yes.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

No doubt.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

like if they felt any empathy, they'd be forced to evaluate themselves differently, and that's too scary?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

And when you do that in one area of your life, it inevitably spills over.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

So, now we need to talk about you in more SPECIFIC terms.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

You ave had similar experiences.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

So...do tell!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

love this bit.... :-)

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

yes, I have undertaken 3 major career changes in my life so far.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Tee hee.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

Lucy knows this bit...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Not tee hee at you, at Lucy.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

Only the first one, when I was a market-maker of Japanese equity warrants in London, was I in a job that brought me the kind of soul-killing experience we tawk about here
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

I couldn't pretend I didn't know the game I was a part of -and it was not OK.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

there's a job you don;t hear about every day.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

but the other traders were my friends,I was young and making good money...it was hard to overlook those things
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

but at my core I knew it wasn't right for me, and I think it led me to a depression, until I decided I had to act. So I resigned and returned back to the US.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

i can just imagine JB as a yuppie. great big brick phone in one hand....

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

Yeah -I was so not me, it's incredible.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

I was really focused on being hugely successful - what I actually did was almost secondary.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

Unfortunately for a large percentage of very "successful" people, this is the case, and it is a desperate existence.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

That's kind of chilling when you stop to think about it...
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

yes -it's the ultimate "the ends justify the means" existence. It's based on nothing.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

I was at Juno. He was there, and then he wasn't.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

So like you, I had an amazing set of circumstances conspire to land me at Juno Online Services a full year before we launched.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

Now Juno was interesting - because it transitioned from something I loved with all my heart into something I kind of despised.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

Ugh.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

And the thing that triggered that transtion was our going public.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Yeah...that puts one in an odd emotional position. Very confusing.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:33 AM

If Juno remained a private company with a pioneering spirit, I would have loved staying there.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

Dude, I totally feel you! Peace Corps was that way for me! I went in already committed to extending service to 3 or 4 years, but when the time came to extend my contract, i was OUT.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

But once you get intertwined with the investment banks and quarterly numbers and quarterly reports, you start participating in a game that is ultimately about stuff I didn't want any part of.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

That;s another thing Joel Salatin talks about often.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

He's a "lunatic farmer" who pontificates about being brave anough to just do what you want to do.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

He says that many people try to follow their dreams but then get enmeshed in the accounting.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:36 AM

Yes -exactly
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

I've seen it happen.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

I worked for my now Mother-in-law when she started her first dance studio.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

worst thing that could happen is have it be successful lol
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

She wanted to dance, not run the ffice. But the school got too big too fast and she was miserable.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

friggin irony
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

She found a manager and moved to Georgia! :D
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

Now she has another studio, but it's only one room, so it has to stay small!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

are you a thrill seeker,JB?

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

I don't think of myself that way. But there are some people who are afraid to take risks. I am afraid not to take risks.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

i have so much to look forward to then lol

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

HIRE AN ACCOUNTANT, LUCY! You just keep painting.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

I am literally fearful of getting to the end of my life and feeling regret
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

That's a good motivator, but it also borders on a bad case of the Shoulds.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

Yeah, I suffer from the Shoulds.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

I'm working very hard to shed it...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

The key is balance...and happiness (hopefully), not gnawing yourself up from the inside with worry about what you OUGHT to do. ;)
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

Gotta go. Love to all.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

night Rick - right back at ya
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

But I should talk. I'm neurotic as fuck, I just try to hide it.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

well, we all are, right?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

I mean -we can focus on the goal, but vcan't actually achieve it.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

unless you're, I don't know, BUDDHA?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

That's probably true.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

I don't know, I mean, I just see people struggling with this everywhere, every day.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

me too. it makes me very sad.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

My husband, bless his heart, has never fit anywhere.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

School was horrible for him.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

Work has been more of the same.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

And it's because he needs work that lets him stretch and grow.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:44 AM

Well, he got you, so it ain't all bad.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

And WE ALL DO.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

We are at a time in history where the cultural ideas we have accepted lead us to believe in personal fullfillment and finding meaning.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

We have these concepts. Without the actual fullfillment part, we are miserable.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

But industry evolved divergently.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

And it's not serving US to continue to serve IT.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

There HAS to be a better way.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

there is. and the majority of humans want it.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

The best I know is just being able to call bullshit on the system you're in and on yourself when necessary.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

and imagine alternate possibilities
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

And to refuse to participate when possible, in the things that make you want to shoot yourself.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

And to CREATE the alternatives.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:47 AM

we also need to get clear and honest about our intentions
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

Going back to what Blake was saying, we have to create a universe in which we can be happy and fulfilled.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

Yes. Honesty is key.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:47 AM

when we realize WHAT we are trying to accomplish, it's a lot easier to come up with a clever plan.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

And all of that radiates outward.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

In a variety of ways.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

Your commitment to an honest intention makes it so much more likely that you'll find a way to do what you need to do.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:48 AM

yep
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

And your fearlessness in pursuing an alternative does shine a light for others. People being to think that it's possible.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:49 AM

All of this, btw, is why I LOVE Tawkers.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

it's about sharing visions and connecting and inspiring and informing and soothing and loving
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

And possibility breeds possibility. When you're radiating outward, actively pursuing, shining, you also open doors for other people. You HELP. You make it better, so that more people can be happier.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

and laughing. always laughing.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Agreed. :)
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

OK -that was a nice inspirational burst
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Ha! I guess it was!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

let's just keep tawking about the world we want.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

BTW, I keep thinking about Lucy selling a print to Dylan Brody. Good on you!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

yeah, that's pretty cool.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I think that Tawking and DOING get us closer.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I really do.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I think it matters.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

And I think we can't hear it enough.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

People can't hear enough that the soul-sucking that they feel is REAL and they shouldn't just find something arbitrary in a shitty situation to be grateful about.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

I think people need to hear that the soul-sucking is INDEED damaging, and that they can save themselves.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

and i'm back!! damn internet went out

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Missed you!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

I saw something on FB the other day to the effect of: "They tell you to be yourself, but then shit on you when you do."
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Right!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

I think people are afraid to speak up
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

missed you too!

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

I have been told my whole life not to do whatever I was doing.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

got a question for you: would you rather someone was honest with you?

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

always
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

I was told by my teachers not to pursue teaching, for example.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

gross
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

As if anyone knows better than you do what feels like the right thing.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

It's too much for right now, but I have been itching to ask you about Teachers' Unions...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

If opinions are like assholes, I am more heartily invested in my own than anyone else's.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

lol
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

now there's a quote!! lol

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

agreed
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

Even if you ARE doing something that you're not going to do for the rest of your life, WHO THE FUCK CARES??? WHo knows what it will lead to.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

So what? I went to school and got a degree to do something I don't really want to do. It still changed my outlook.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

and was therefore worth it
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

I don't speak Spanish every day, either, but I can still think that way and understand more people because of it.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

de acuerdo.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

I am not a professional dancer, but dance gave me soemthing intangible that has been very important.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

I don't cook professionally...and on and on.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

well, I am heartened because I feel like you have built a very full life, and are a great role model
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

I do things, I learn things, I practie things because they make me a whole human. In that process of becoming, i get closer to fulfilling whatever might be here for me to fulfill.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

We all have tha potential, and it's time for out stupid social expectations and systems to stop squashing that.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

So, at some point we're going to have to start outlining the new social structures we want to advocate
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

just not tonight...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

It's time for something new. The only should is that you should find out what makes you happy. Unless it's squashing bugs - because then we'll have to talk.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

And, yes.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

We'll draw the outlines here on Tawkers.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

Sometime.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

yes - leave the poor bugs alone!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

some people just dont realise they are role models.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

well said my friend
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

OK guys - are we ready to call it a night?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Looks that way. :)
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Thanks for being here.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

this was fun -filled me with hope
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

It was so nice Tawking with you.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

always
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

thanks you guys!! love you both. :-)

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Thanks for making this possible, Jordan et al on the Tawkers team.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

right back at ya
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

Lucy AND Rebecca
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Thanks, Lucy.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Good night!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

nite!