Blake Ian

Host

Employee Engagement For Everyone

Nov 13, 2013·109 visitors

Kevin Kruse

Cohost

Stage· 153 messages

Nov 13, 2013

A discussion with the NY Times Bestselling Author and keynote speaker Kevin Kruse on the principals and tools covered in his latest book, Employee Engagement for Everyone

Blake Ian · 7:00 PM

Kevin Kruse, welcome to Tawkers!

Kevin Kruse · 7:00 PM

Hey Blake, great to be Tawk'in with you. Cool platform.

Blake Ian · 7:01 PM

Thanks, its been quite a journey getting it built... but Im sure you know all about that!

Kevin Kruse · 7:01 PM

The joys of entrepreneurship. Heard someone say recently that entrepreneurship is great, just NOT the day to day stuff!

Blake Ian · 7:02 PM

Haha... Thats profoundly funny

Blake Ian · 7:02 PM

The devils in the details, and the details are a constant

Blake Ian · 7:03 PM

Though I have been grateful to be able to tend to the details and not focus on them

Kevin Kruse · 7:03 PM

True dat. That I think is one of the toughest challenges...trying to be aware of the strategy and long-game, while just making sure everything works day to day.

Blake Ian · 7:04 PM

Exactly, I read a great article recently about many successful entrepreneurs and business people having musical training at a young age, and how that helped prepare them

Kevin Kruse · 7:04 PM

No wonder I've struggled so much! Never had a single music lesson...parents never had the money. I'm STILL mad about that. :-)

Blake Ian · 7:05 PM

For sure I can relate, its a knack of being able to dive very deep into the minutia whole staying inspired and aware of the vision as a whole

Blake Ian · 7:05 PM

Well I think, struggling considered, you're doing prettttayyyy good.

Blake Ian · 7:06 PM

Case in point, I have been digging into your book Employee Engagement for Everyone this past week

Kevin Kruse · 7:06 PM

No complaints. Think I'm the luckiest guy on the planet. Have always been blessed to work with great people. They carry me.

Blake Ian · 7:07 PM

I hear ya

Blake Ian · 7:07 PM

So speaking of your book... I know you have a second book more geared towards managers and employers, and this one is targeted at employees.

Kevin Kruse · 7:08 PM

Yep, both sides of the coin.

Blake Ian · 7:08 PM

I have to say as a current employer, it was beneficial to read the book geared towards employees

Blake Ian · 7:08 PM

No better way to learn how to treat people, then to stand in their shoes... and this book put me back in those shoes mentally

Blake Ian · 7:08 PM

Mind Shoes!

Kevin Kruse · 7:09 PM

Yeah, that's great. We all either have employees or ARE employees, and regardless, we really want the same things at work: Growth, Recognition and Trust. Just different ways to get at that.

Blake Ian · 7:10 PM

Totally, thats actually a smooth transition into my first question...

Blake Ian · 7:11 PM

I am a big fan of defining terms, and you have done a great job of this in your book. So can you define "engagement" for the current and future readers of this Tawk.

Blake Ian · 7:11 PM

(ok fine, technically that wasn't a question)

Kevin Kruse · 7:12 PM

Yeah, that's a great start. Many people confuse "engagement" with other things. For example...

Kevin Kruse · 7:12 PM

engagement doesn't mean "happy"--we're not actually trying to make someone happy at work, although that's nice.

Kevin Kruse · 7:12 PM

Some people are happy at work just goofing off.

Kevin Kruse · 7:12 PM

And satisfied doesn't raise the bar high enough.

Kevin Kruse · 7:13 PM

You can be "satisfied" at work just doing the minimum work, minimum time, and you'll be "satisfied" taking the headhunters call for the next job.

Blake Ian · 7:13 PM

Hahah good point

Kevin Kruse · 7:13 PM

Engagement actually refers to being EMOTIONALLY COMMITTED to your employer and their goals.

Kevin Kruse · 7:13 PM

It means you feel like you are part of the team and you CARE about the company goals.

Kevin Kruse · 7:13 PM

When we care, we give discretionary effort--go the extra mile.

Kevin Kruse · 7:14 PM

So that's really what we're referring to when we say everyone should be "engaged" at work.

Blake Ian · 7:14 PM

Well I'm certainly satisfied with that definition! Thanks

Blake Ian · 7:15 PM

So the next question that leads to may seem obvious but why is it important for an employee to be engaged? What are some of the key benefits for the employee and the employer?

Kevin Kruse · 7:16 PM

For the employer, there is a lot of research that shows that an "engaged" workforce leads to higher profits and ultimately share price.

Kevin Kruse · 7:16 PM

This is because of engaged workers try harder...sales people sell more, service reps provide better service, factory workers make fewer quality defects, etc.

Kevin Kruse · 7:17 PM

What really surprised me in doing research for the book though was all the benefits for the individual worker...

Kevin Kruse · 7:17 PM

People who are unhappy at work have 2x the risk for heart attacks and strokes?

Kevin Kruse · 7:18 PM

People who are unhappy at work have kids who are more likely to misbehave in school

Kevin Kruse · 7:18 PM

People who are unhappy at work have less sex! (Now I think some readers are paying extra attention)

Kevin Kruse · 7:18 PM

Crazy huh?

Blake Ian · 7:19 PM

Wow.. Well honestly it is not surprising to hear it, but what is surprising is that it didn't occur to us for so long as a society. People didn't do the research or the writing that folks like yourself have done.

Kevin Kruse · 7:19 PM

Psychologists call it the spillover and crossover effects. Our emotions at work spill into our personal lives AND they cross over to those around us.

Blake Ian · 7:19 PM

From many of the effects you just listed its clear that the benefit reaches beyond employer and employee into society as a whole no?

Blake Ian · 7:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tom Lorenzo

“Haha... sex stats gets us all the time!”

Kevin Kruse · 7:20 PM

Exactly, that's how I got so passionate about the topic. It's nice to help companies make more coin, but it's really about making families and relationships stronger.

Kevin Kruse · 7:20 PM

We're better neighbors etc. when we're engaged at work.

Blake Ian · 7:21 PM

I JUST read something about freedom yesterday in one of my daily readers, and it was related. To paraphrase it said something like "freedom doesn't exist until we are all free"

Kevin Kruse · 7:21 PM

Great line. Crossover effect is very powerful.

Blake Ian · 7:21 PM

So with that logic, it is only better for each of us to want to ensure everyone else is engaged, happy, etc.

Kevin Kruse · 7:22 PM

Yeah, one study that jumped out at me showed that spouses feel the same amount of stress as their partner does from their job...

Blake Ian · 7:22 PM

This is quite similar to the basic fundamentals of Buddhism. Compassion being the #1 objective

Kevin Kruse · 7:22 PM

so even if say I'm a stay at home Dad, but my wife has a stressful job, I'll be just as stressed. It's in my interest to have her working her dream job. Ditto if you're a boss or just a peer on a team.

Blake Ian · 7:23 PM

Wow, again makes so much sense once you look at it

Kevin Kruse · 7:23 PM

Empathy is definitely a super power.

Blake Ian · 7:23 PM

I can't help but think of the early days of business, an image of The Wonder Years comes to mind haha, where his dad would come home from work, grunt and go into the other room.

Blake Ian · 7:24 PM

It was kind of a funny scene, but the effect of how common that was for so long is pretty significant

Kevin Kruse · 7:24 PM

That's actually an example I use--back to that sex stat--you come home unhappy from work and grunt a hello, grab the remote and a beer, that's not a night that is likely gonna have much marital "intimacy".

Kevin Kruse · 7:24 PM

But happy at work and come home in a good mood, kiss your spouse, share a bottle of wine over dinner, and you never know.

Kevin Kruse · 7:25 PM

Tom asked a good question about engagement going both ways. An IDG research study suggests that 43% of our "engagement" comes from internal factors--some of us are just grumpier/happier than others. But the rest comes from external factrors.

Blake Ian · 7:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tom Lorenzo

“Engagement goes both ways, right? It seems like employers need to be just as engaged in their employees to make the relationship work, right?”

Kevin Kruse · 7:25 PM

An our own research shows that MOST of how we feel about work comes from our relationship with our boss.

Kevin Kruse · 7:25 PM

The old saying, "People join a company but leave a boss." Lot of truth to that.

Blake Ian · 7:27 PM

So with that in mind let's look at Jordan's question here:

Blake Ian · 7:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“how hard is it to get employers to think about these concepts?”

Blake Ian · 7:27 PM

You have listed the benefits to the company, but it does take a leader with a longview right?

Kevin Kruse · 7:27 PM

Re: Jordan's Q... The good news is that "employee engagement" is getting more and more popular...

Blake Ian · 7:27 PM

Thanks to Google!

Kevin Kruse · 7:28 PM

...but only about half of big companies are addressing it, and half of those are doing it wrong.

Blake Ian · 7:28 PM

Hmm maybe I spoke to soon about Google. Are ping pong tables, cafeterias and scooters engagement?

Kevin Kruse · 7:29 PM

lol. Google-style perq's are not shown to have any correlation to engagement. (I like beer keg Fridays as much as the next guy but it doesn't make me committed to the company)

Kevin Kruse · 7:29 PM

Too many companies think engagement rises from "picnics and parties"...Hey, employee satisfaction is down...let's have more parties.

Kevin Kruse · 7:30 PM

What you really need is C-level committment to wanting to create a great culture...all about the talent.

Kevin Kruse · 7:30 PM

Then know that front-line managers need to be LEADERS of people, not just managers of projects and tasks.

Kevin Kruse · 7:30 PM

It's the individual team leaders that can foster growth, recognition and trust--and of course the employees have to realize that they have to WANT to be engaged to! Everyone is a leader.

Blake Ian · 7:31 PM

So let's take a look at the other side for a second, since unfortunately it is still probably the majority...

Blake Ian · 7:31 PM

Why do people stay in jobs where they are NOT engaged?

Blake Ian · 7:32 PM

Sure there is money and security and responsibility, but is that it? I would think fear or self worth come into play too right?

Blake Ian · 7:32 PM

Its an epidemic really no?

Kevin Kruse · 7:32 PM

Yeah, tough question. I get SO MANY emails from people who say they are unhappy at work but won't leave.

Kevin Kruse · 7:33 PM

Part of it is there are many variables pro/con to our jobs: short commute good, boring work bad. Casual dress code and regular hours good, no room for advancement bad.

Kevin Kruse · 7:33 PM

But I think it really does come down to emotions. We tend to magnify our fears and focus on loss more than gain.

Kevin Kruse · 7:33 PM

We accept the devil we know.

Blake Ian · 7:34 PM

Right, familiarity and comfort can really keep you stuck.

Kevin Kruse · 7:34 PM

Which is a shame. For those of us who do crazy things like start companies, this "fear" stuff is pretty foreign, but when you have a mortgage, bills, etc. it can be real.

Blake Ian · 7:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Wilson

“i worked for someone once who would engage me and other employees on a personal/emotional level as a way of distracting from the ABSURD working conditions they'd created. i mistook that "friendship" for true professional engagement for a long time.”

Kevin Kruse · 7:35 PM

It's really the driver of mid-life crises. For whatever reason I stayed in a job, company, career-whatever-for 25 years, and now that I see the end, it's like whoa! Life is short, better do something I love instead.

Blake Ian · 7:36 PM

"life is short" was one of the most important realizations of my life. I remember when it truly hit me and it lit a fire, and stripped away so much fear.

Kevin Kruse · 7:36 PM

Ryan shares a good case. Leadership can be minimalized to competence + caring. If our manager seems to care, seems to be a friend etc., it can mask the incompetence of their management or of the company.

Kevin Kruse · 7:37 PM

Blake, that's why I immediately bought "The Time Is Always Now" painting by Peter Tunney. I'm not an art collector but that thing spoke to me.

Blake Ian · 7:37 PM

So what keeps coming to mind for me during this Tawk is how similar any other good or bad relationship is to a professional one

Blake Ian · 7:37 PM

That's awesome. Peter is a very good friend and one of my mentors as I mentioned

Blake Ian · 7:38 PM

That phrase The Time is Always Now is the one he is most known for... and for that reason. It grabs you, it wakes you up and puts a simple and obvious fact right at the forefront of your mind

Blake Ian · 7:40 PM

While we are on the subject of life is short and acting now...

Blake Ian · 7:40 PM

I, as you know live in the startup, entrepreneur world right now

Blake Ian · 7:41 PM

and there are many challenges that come along with that... but I have to say one of the blessings is that its more common that an employee IS engaged.

Kevin Kruse · 7:41 PM

Yes, engagement tends to be higher in startups for a few reasons...

Blake Ian · 7:42 PM

Most people who join a startup as an employee or otherwise are taking a degree of risk, they are usually working below their pay grade for at least some time

Blake Ian · 7:42 PM

and especially early on they are becoming vested in the company in some way

Kevin Kruse · 7:42 PM

First, GROWTH is one of the top 3 triggers for engagement and so everyone working in a startup is really doing multiple jobs, learning, and having daily adventures.

Kevin Kruse · 7:43 PM

Also, TRUST is another major driver...not trust like ethics, more like trust in the future...I trust that the future is bright. Again, long odds but startup employees are really focused on the future, putting a dent in the universe etc.

Kevin Kruse · 7:44 PM

Lastly, engagement goes up as you get closer to the company founder/CEO. So in big companies, VPs are more engaged than front-line workers. In startups, EVERYBODY is close to the founder so engagement is higher.

Kevin Kruse · 7:44 PM

It comes from having a clear line between what I'm doing as an employee and the vision/goal of the company.

Kevin Kruse · 7:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“another possible complication: do different tactics work for different employees? Or are there some "one-size-fits-all" strategies out there?”

Blake Ian · 7:45 PM

Really well said and well explained Kevin

Blake Ian · 7:46 PM

And absolutely accurate to my experience so far

Kevin Kruse · 7:46 PM

We found from surveys of 10 million workers in 150 countries that Growth, Recognition and Trust are top 3 drivers. But...

Kevin Kruse · 7:47 PM

...there is definitely an individual element. A young new worker might be MOST interested in growing and learning, while a worker close to retirement is more interested in feelings of appreciation.

Kevin Kruse · 7:47 PM

Also, HOW you show recognition might be different in China than in USA, but almost all people DO want some form of recognition.

Kevin Kruse · 7:48 PM

I always just come out and ask my team members. "Hey, how important is growth to you over the next couple of years? What do you want to learn?"

Blake Ian · 7:49 PM

Right, ASKING is always a quick route to find out something from somebody

Blake Ian · 7:50 PM

In fact that reminds me of an article you wrote in Forbes that I came across... let me dig it up and link. One sec.

Blake Ian · 7:50 PM

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinkruse/2013/11/10/randy-hetrick-authentic-leadership/

Blake Ian · 7:50 PM

In there you and Randy mention transparency and vulnerability of a leader

Blake Ian · 7:50 PM

something pretty counter intuitive to most

Kevin Kruse · 7:51 PM

Yes, basically what worked for me in business is just what I call Wholehearted Leadership.

Kevin Kruse · 7:52 PM

It's a focus on finding great people and using G,R,T to keep them engaged, but also it's about being authentic and vulnerable.

Kevin Kruse · 7:52 PM

Authentic means drop the I'm-the-boss mask. You don't need to have all the answers. You don't need to keep bad news from your team. You CAN treat everyone as adults.

Kevin Kruse · 7:53 PM

I used to do completely open book management...every month my team would see our P&L statements. Good, bad, ugly.

Kevin Kruse · 7:53 PM

When things went well I told them. When something was f'd up, I'd tell them that too.

Kevin Kruse · 7:53 PM

They knew they could trust me to be straight with them. I think if you don't share everything, their imaginations will always be worse than the reality.

Blake Ian · 7:54 PM

Exactly! I was going to say that this line particularly stood out to me from Randy...

Blake Ian · 7:54 PM

"your teams will appreciate the candor and humility and, hell, they’ll sniff them out anyway!”

Kevin Kruse · 7:54 PM

Exactly. I was curious as to what a hard-ass SEAL would think about all this vulnerability stuff, and he had a great angle.

Kevin Kruse · 7:55 PM

He basically said yes share it all unless it's your own irrational emotions than you need to control that.

Kevin Kruse · 7:55 PM

Seems fair.

Blake Ian · 7:55 PM

It reminded me of advice I once got from another mentor of mine, who is actually a professional poker champion

Kevin Kruse · 7:55 PM

Ha, this is going to be good.

Blake Ian · 7:56 PM

he said "eventually people pick up on your pretense, especially the people you want to be sitting at the table with, so you are better off just leaving it behind and being direct. Its a much stronger play"

Kevin Kruse · 7:56 PM

that's great. If you are always direct you won't have a "tell" !

Blake Ian · 7:56 PM

precisely.

Blake Ian · 7:57 PM

and not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I have to get SOME transparency points by discussing this topic publicly right now! Eh?!

Blake Ian · 7:57 PM

hehe

Kevin Kruse · 7:58 PM

You definitely do. The first step IMHO of great leadership and engagement is to be mindful of it. Exploring it openly and with our teams is how it all begins.

Blake Ian · 7:58 PM

Though you wrote books on it... so you are the transparency master

Kevin Kruse · 7:58 PM

Blake, any other comments you want to make sure we spotlight?

Blake Ian · 7:58 PM

Oh wow it's already an hour... yeah let's take a look at one more question from the forum.

Blake Ian · 7:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tom Lorenzo

“Is digital and how we're interacting through email, text, etc., hurting or helping employee engagement?”

Blake Ian · 7:59 PM

Tom that certainly interests me, Id love to know Kevin's response to this

Kevin Kruse · 8:00 PM

Ahh, the tech question. Sort of like weapons, depends on how they're being used. Again, engagement comes from our RELATIONSHIP(s)...

Kevin Kruse · 8:00 PM

So tech tools can help or hinder.

Blake Ian · 8:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“@Tom I think both. A little good, a little bad.”

Blake Ian · 8:00 PM

Jodan sounds like you win!

Kevin Kruse · 8:00 PM

Meaning if I'm using Skype or IM or Tawker--like that, Blake?--to communicate with remote workers, it has to help.

Kevin Kruse · 8:01 PM

But I've worked for bosses that would manage through email, and not even look up from their computer when I walked in for a face-to-face. That's bad.

Kevin Kruse · 8:01 PM

This is important when it comes to remote workers. Communication is key. Face-to-face with body language always preferred but if you can't, then you really need to use technology to try to overcommunicate.

Blake Ian · 8:02 PM

There really is no question that can't be answered with "balance and moderation" is there?

Blake Ian · 8:02 PM

Kevin, this has been great, thanks so much for sharing some of your knowledge with myself and our readers!

Kevin Kruse · 8:03 PM

Hey Blake thanks for having me and thanks for all the questions from the readers. We ALL need to be engaged in our work, and as leaders need to try to engage others.

Blake Ian · 8:03 PM

Folks be sure to check out Kevin's book Employee Engagement for Everyone on amazing. http://www.amazon.com/Employee-Engagement-Everyone-Happiness-Fulfillment-ebook/dp/B00CRTRNNY

Blake Ian · 8:03 PM

Thanks all and be well. (and engaged!)

Forum · 28

Forum· 28 comments

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Tom LorenzoNov 13, 2013, 7:14 PM★ Spotlighted

Engagement goes both ways, right? It seems like employers need to be just as engaged in their employees to make the relationship work, right?

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:15 PM

I feel lucky to have a job that I can del good about - helps me feel engaged.

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:15 PM

feel

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:17 PM

Not only are profits higher, but it makes the office a much more pleasant place to be!

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:18 PM

I think part of the difficulties for workers to feel engaged is the sense that our employers don't care about us and have no loyalty for our time at an organization. It's like they have broken the "psychological" contract. How to combat that?

Ryan WilsonNov 13, 2013, 7:19 PM

i have definitely found that to be true, re: spillover.

Tom LorenzoNov 13, 2013, 7:19 PM★ Spotlighted

Haha... sex stats gets us all the time!

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:22 PM★ Spotlighted

how hard is it to get employers to think about these concepts?

Ryan WilsonNov 13, 2013, 7:27 PM★ Spotlighted

i worked for someone once who would engage me and other employees on a personal/emotional level as a way of distracting from the ABSURD working conditions they'd created. i mistook that "friendship" for true professional engagement for a long time.

Tom LorenzoNov 13, 2013, 7:29 PM

So what makes these less engaging bosses/employers successful? Is there -- or shouldn't there be -- a correlation between success as a boss/employer and useful engagement?

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:29 PM★ Spotlighted

another possible complication: do different tactics work for different employees? Or are there some "one-size-fits-all" strategies out there?

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:49 PM

do you think people's personalities play a role in their job engagement regardless of how the company tries to foster it?

Tom LorenzoNov 13, 2013, 7:56 PM★ Spotlighted

Is digital and how we're interacting through email, text, etc., hurting or helping employee engagement?

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:56 PM★ Spotlighted

@Tom I think both. A little good, a little bad.

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 7:58 PM

5 points for vulnerability

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 8:00 PM

5 points for winning

Tom LorenzoNov 13, 2013, 8:03 PM

Thanks for this, Kevin and Blake! Really enjoyed the tawk

Ryan WilsonNov 13, 2013, 8:03 PM

thank you Kevin!

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 8:09 PM

thanks! GREAT task!

Jordan BirnbaumNov 13, 2013, 8:09 PM

tawk

Harry MartinianNov 13, 2013, 8:13 PM

There is this large cultural shift over the years where the bane of employers was absenteeism but now the word being coined is presenteeism . Being at work but not being engaged.

Harry MartinianNov 13, 2013, 8:14 PM

Have found that when a person is more rested and expanded in their awareness they are spontaneously more engaged, employer or employee.

Dave KirkNov 13, 2013, 8:40 PM

It is so great that the very things we think will engage people more: making the job easier and paying them more tends to be the things that do not help at all

Dave KirkNov 13, 2013, 8:41 PM

In a start-up, it is very difficult work, and usually the pay is short, but that does not matter nearly as much

Dave KirkNov 13, 2013, 8:41 PM

this is true in the private and non-profit sectors

Merhawi HaderaJul 17, 2014, 5:55 AM

Hiii