KK

Faithful Reproductive Justice

Mar 25, 2014

RM
Stage· 268 messages
Mar 25, 2014

The fight for reproductive healthcare is often seen as a stand-off between "choice" & "faith." The truth is that many of us who work every day to protect the rights we have & expand access to all are part of or allied with pro-choice religious groups.nJournalist/activist Robin Marty & I both value voices like the affiliates of Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (http://rcrc.org) & Faith Aloud (http://www.faithaloud.org). Join us to chat about the intersection of faith & reprojustice!

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:00 PM

Hi, everyone! Thanks for coming to "Faithful Reproductive Justice” with the fantastic pro-choice journalist Robin Marty!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:00 PM

Real quick, if you’re new to Tawkers, Robin and I will be chatting on the left. And if you’re signed in (it only takes two minutes to set up a profile!), you can add comments/questions on the right. Interrupt any time with questions!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:01 PM

(Also, the site is occasionally glitchy; refreshing your browser fixes most of that and you won't miss anything doing it.)
RM

Robin Marty · 11:01 PM

Hi! so glad to be here with all of you
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:02 PM

Hooray!
RM

Robin Marty · 11:02 PM

I for one am ready to talk about religious liberty as something other than denying people birth control :)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:02 PM

And a reminder that my tawks are safe spaces. All ideas are welcome, but abusive language is not. Anyone can mute people they find frustrating by clicking the " ..." under their comments. :]
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:02 PM

For sure! Me too.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:03 PM

Reproductive issues (birth control, abortion, access to care, cancer screenings, etc.) are often framed as a fight b/t secular & religious factions. Robin was the first person to reframe it for me.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:03 PM

She introduced me to groups like Faith Aloud & Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC) who are outspoken on RJ (repro justice) issues. So, I’m excited to have her with me to explain
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:03 PM

the crucial role these organizations play. Thanks for joining me, Robin!
RM

Robin Marty · 11:03 PM

Since no one has questions yet, let me tell yall a little bit about why I spend a lot of time talking about faith when it comes to reproductive rights
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:04 PM

Perfect.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:04 PM

And, frankly, a lot of it came from my own lack of knowledge. It was due to an "ah ha" moment I had reading the book "wrath of Angels"
RM

Robin Marty · 11:05 PM

If you ever want a fantastic history of abortion from just pre-Roe to the mid 90's, that is your book to go to
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:05 PM

(And for post Roe, obviously you get Robin's book "Crow After Roe")
RM

Robin Marty · 11:06 PM

I'd heard the stories of the back alley abortions, of course, but that was the first time I learned about the number of people who were able to get safe, albeit illegal, abortions vie the Clergy Consultation Network
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:06 PM

That really surprised me as well. I read about it in your piece focusing on Mississippi:
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:06 PM

(link: http://ow.ly/uUSfD )
RM

Robin Marty · 11:07 PM

in the 60's and early 70's, these ministers acted as the pipeline to get pregnant people from wherever they were, to a city that had legal abortion, or out of the country, or to a doctor who would perform an illegal one, but safely
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:07 PM

An abortion railroad!
RM

Robin Marty · 11:07 PM

It was this movement by the clergy that had a huge effect not only on getting pregnant people access to safe abortion, but putting themselves on the line to advocate for making the procedure legal everywhere
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:08 PM

Were these clergy at the core prochoice, or just pragmatic enough to know that illegal abortion just mean women were dying?
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:08 PM

**meant
RM

Robin Marty · 11:08 PM

For me, it was a truly eye opening realization because, as someone born post Roe, I only thought of abortion as how the religious right and Catholics opposed it
RM

Robin Marty · 11:09 PM

Many of the clergy were behind it as another civil rights issue, just as they were for desegregation and civil rights act for people of color
RM

Robin Marty · 11:10 PM

it was social justice issue, and especially among many of the Catholics, fighting for social justice is the biggest showing of your faith
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:10 PM

(BTW I messaged Tawkers admins about the chat -- give refreshing your browser or signing back in a try, but they're working on it.)
RM

Robin Marty · 11:10 PM

It's why we still see the major divide today between the US Council of Bishops on one side, and Nuns on the Bus on the other
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:10 PM

That's really amazing, Robin. I'd always assumed most of the religious groups from that time were simply pragmatic having literally worked for hospitals and orgs putting women back together after illegal procedures.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:11 PM

Interesting. A good reminder that not all faith groups are anti-choice.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:11 PM

it's why Catholics for Choice continues to grow more active legislatively, especially when it comes to "conscience" issues
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:11 PM

And that the split is long-standing.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:12 PM

no sect has a monopoly on what defines making someone go against their conscience
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:12 PM

That's a good point. Oh,hey! Chat's working!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“Huh. Interesting. I'm Lutheran, and I just don't know a whole lot about Catholic political views other than , yanno, Birthright. My grandmother used to volunteer for them...”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:12 PM

there we go!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“*political views as to abortion other than opposing it, I should say”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:13 PM

I had always assumed religious groups as a whole -- meaning Christian/Biblical religions -- were automatically opposed as well.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“Has there been a decrease in "volume" since pre-Roe days? Were these groups more outspoken before abortion became legal? If so, what is likely the cause of the decreased fervor?”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“If not, what do you think is the reason we tend to group all people of faith into the anti-choice camp?”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:13 PM

Catholics have a wide variety of beliefs on the abortion issue, from the "conception to natural death" mentality we think of as the public face to those who are actively advocating for rights
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:14 PM

Yeah, they're the ones with the "mic" so to speak.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:14 PM

Although Catholics for Choice get a lot of play, there is a (dum dum dum) group working from the inside to change the establishment, too
RM

Robin Marty · 11:14 PM

http://cta-usa.org/
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:14 PM

Ooooo. I'm a fan of change.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“My first time on Tawkers - so glad to see this great convo. Thanks for the invitation to join in, Robin. The Clergy Consultation Service on Abortion was organized in 1967 by Rev. Howard Moody, an American Baptist Minister.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“Personally, my church--the ELCA--is veeery ambiguous is its wording, but the majority of Lutherans I know personally are, from what I can tell, pro-choice.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:15 PM

Rosie makes a good point. Certainly there are churches that tend to be more progressive (Unitarian, etc), but individual parishes or churches can vary.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:16 PM

I think the major reason we push all religious people into the anti-choice camp is because that tends to be the "face" politically
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“Moody was concerned about the danger to women from illegal abortions. There were about 160 clergy at the beginning & over 1400 by the time Roe was decided; clergy from many different denominations”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:16 PM

Andrew -- I think we group people into one camp for a couple reasons -- YES, the loudness of the extreme evangelicals.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:16 PM

They also have the political power -- 30% of Congress is conservative Catholic.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:17 PM

starting in the 70's but especially in the 80's and 90s, through Christian Coalition building up their political base, abortion became a great way to divide up political campaigns and people to endorse
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“And the media's push of "The Religious Right," if you will.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:17 PM

A hand for Kelli, by the way -- one of our prochoice faith champions!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:17 PM

Yes, Robin's right. They have used it as a fundraising tool.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:17 PM

It's very bumper-sticker-able, so the right-wing has made it a slogan they can run on.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:18 PM

(Trey -- you can scroll back for earlier stuff if you want!)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Trey Williamson

“Sorry I'm late!”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:18 PM

in the 70's, the evangelicals were first encouraged to start getting involved in politics actively by Francis Schaeffer, which birthed an alliance with the more antiabortion wing of the Catholic church. That's when we had more litmus tests for pols
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“As a minister & person of faith, I stand on 3 theological pillars to support reproductive justice: 1) God shows up in the complexity of all of life, not just at the moment of conception. We are called to be good stewards of our resources...”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“...so family planning supports this. 2) Throughout scriptures of all faith communities, human beings are called to be moral agents. Part of our humanity is our ability to be moral decision makers”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“& 3) sexuality is a great & good gift from God that ought to be celebrated & respected. Enough With the Shame!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:19 PM

Hooray on that last point, Kelli! It's one of the reasons Faith Aloud is a personal favorite group of mine. I love the push back on sexual shaming.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“Katie, I know that you are a clinic escort. How often do you encounter antis that do not, in any way, explicitly tie in religion to their activities?”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:19 PM

No, Andrew. I've never seen a secular picketer. There are "free thought" anti-choice groups, but they don't engage in the shaming style that picketers prefer.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:19 PM

Because of that, they don't have the mic or the political power to be an issue, really. And they aren't single-item voters.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:20 PM

I spend a great deal of time talking to people who oppose abortion, and I have yet to speak to someone who sees it as a secular issue. Although I'm trying to reach out to that more.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:20 PM

It just doesn't motivate people on the secular side much.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:21 PM

They may be that way personally, but aren't the type to push their views on others.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:21 PM

Robin, can you talk a little about your experience in Mississippi? Your piece on that was really interesting.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“I've been escorting for about 7 months, and I've never seen an anti without at least a cross, which I feel has contributed to reinforcing stereotypes and prejudices in me.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:22 PM

You said it helped reinforce the idea that repro rights vs devout religious belief conflict wasn’t automatic.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:22 PM

@rosie - we spend a lot of time in my trainings around this issue, and talking about whether God really would judge a person. After all, why were we given free will if we weren't supposed to make decisions about our lives?
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:22 PM

Rosie - they can't. They're cherry picking. (pardon the pun)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“I can't fathom how people biblical justify shaming; "judge not lest ye be judged," ""He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her," ETC.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:22 PM

Michael -- have you seen them at clinics?
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“The secular side is there, but they definitely aren't a loud voice.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“There is an organization called 'Secular Pro-Life', and they've become a little more of an issue lately due to other concerns among secular orgs”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“Good point, Katie.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“I always like to remind people that Jesus never shamed ;)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“(I'm not proud of that. But when I deal with people weekly yelling about "God's plan," it starts to ingrain a bit.)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:23 PM

Andrew -- it's SO HARD. I always have to remember that they're extremists. Interacting more with people of faith who are prochoice -- vocally prochoice -- has been instrumental for me.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:23 PM

@Michael I know there was an incident in Alabama because of one of their events. I haven't seen them at a clinic yet. As far as I've seen it's just Kelsey
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:24 PM

And Robin's piece (here's the link again: http://ow.ly/uUSfD ) on how religion is built into a lot of communities, esp communities that need access
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:24 PM

reinforced for me the need to work within the framework of people's lives.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:25 PM

One thing that I like to remind people when it comes to the idea of understanding abortion (and birth control) opponents is, imagine if you truly, truly believed a soul begins and is complete at moment of conception
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:25 PM

Robin's last comment reminds me: if ya'll don't know her, she's basically an encyclopedia of anti-choice groups and state laws. So, go follow her on twitter and read everything she puts out: @robinmarty
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“They usually aren't very visible among almost any group”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:26 PM

If you really, truly think that a zygote is the equivalent as a 2 year old because they all have the same soul and value, you can see how horrifying this would be
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“Finding people of faith who are vocally prochoice is always a wonderful experience for me. I used to feel so ashamed of my faith & my pro-choice stance - discovering that my denomination (United Methodist) was a member of RCRC was a refreshing moment”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

That's awesome, Kendra! We have a Unitarian minister on the NJ escort team. SHE'S AMAZING.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“It helped me find the confidence to speak up.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

Yeah, the people outside clinics do really believe the line about "abortion is murder." It's a life and death struggle for them. <sigh>
RM

Robin Marty · 11:26 PM

@kendra RCRC is amazing. another important thing to note is that a number of states that don't have active "repro" groups like NARAL do have religious reproductive rights groups
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:27 PM

YES! Robin, that's I think how you and I got talking about this issue.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“Me too Kendra. It was a revelation to learn that I could connect my reproductive life to my faith journey - abortion, infertility, miscarriage, parenting - all of it is part of my faith journey. None of it was anything I should be ashamed of.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:27 PM

We were at an RJ (repro justice) conference & you made that point.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:27 PM

In states like Indiana, ICRR is the only thing really standing between lawmakers and people's reproductive rights being thrown away
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“And because religion has done great harm over the centuries - especially to women & sexuality - religion must be an agent of healing.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:28 PM

@Kelli -- YES. Thank you. I can push back (i'm an atheist) from a political, societal, legislative stance. But I can't speak directly to the religious extremists as outliers the way you can!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:28 PM

Rosie -- come find me on Twitter/FB.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“I live in NJ, and I know we don't have NARAL; I'm thinking about looking for somewhere to volunteer,a dn I think that's a really good point, @Robin!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“I could never fathom the idea that there weren't religious people who favored choice since I'm still under the impression that non-believers such as myself are still a tiny minority. Well, the push for choice is still coming from somewhere.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“Rosie - there are some dedicated folks doing RJ work at the Unitarian Society of Ridgewood”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:29 PM

Yep! I can connect you to the minister who was on our escort team. She's great. (Englewood area)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:29 PM

Sweet! I'll hook you up.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:30 PM

one of the biggest reasons that religious groups have had the upper hand on the "morality in religion" argument is they started organizing WAAAY before us
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“@katie I already follow you :)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:30 PM

Thank you so much for coming, Kelli!!
RM

Robin Marty · 11:30 PM

thanks for coming Kelli!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“Oops sorry folks - gotta go do family stuff - you know b/c I'm pro-faith, PRO-FAMILY, & pro-choice :) I'll click back in to read the convo”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:30 PM

Yeah, they've had a long four decades while we were just going about our business.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:30 PM

the Right to Life Coalition began before Roe, to try to stop abortion from becoming legal in the first place
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:30 PM

I do it all the time, Andrew -- great question. Robin will have specifics, but my first suggestion is this:
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kelli Clement

“Keep up the awesome work Robin & Katie & all!!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“How feasible is the idea of pro-choice groups reaching out to pro-choice faith groups and encouraging them to raise their voices? What can we do to help them reclaim the spotlight from the antis?”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:31 PM

We have to use more specific modifiers when discussing picketers and anti-choicers.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:31 PM

They aren't simply religious. They're religious "extremists" etc. We have to work to not alienate the great groups doing reproductive justice work.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:31 PM

Lots of groups are doing this already, which is how groups like Faith Aloud, Catholics for Choice, etc got formed.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:31 PM

And then don't be afraid to ask them to weigh in!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“[Just googled (repro right/unitarian church/nj,etc.); I'll look into it.]”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:32 PM

one of the biggest movements right now that I've been watching is CAPFaith, which is organizing faith leaders across the country to help them better speak out about their beliefs in all sort of social justice issues
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“@Andrew - I remember feeling so welcomed and loved by those without religion more so than members of my own faith. It's always stuck with me.”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:33 PM

it's meant to turn the tide and help make sure that there is no longer one far right voice dominating the faith talking points.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:33 PM

<applause>
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:33 PM

Just being open to this discussion is so helpful. Other groups and outlets are jumping in.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:33 PM

It really is uplifting and motivating to have faith groups speaking out. And their voices are growing.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:33 PM

be sure to follow them, they are doing great work https://twitter.com/CAPfaith
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:34 PM

Yes, they are!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:34 PM

I see some other escort badasses in the tawkers field...
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:35 PM

Does anyone have a "wish list" for faith groups, things they really need them to see about what's happening at our clinics? So many of the faith leaders are open & engaging. I think we need to seek them out more.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:35 PM

that reminds me that clinics are also a source if you are looking for more information on the intersection of repro and faith
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:36 PM

Me too, Andrew. From all sides.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:36 PM

(meaning secular or faith based)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“I wish more pro-choice leaders would come to an escorting shift and see first hand what happens.”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:36 PM

a number do have counselers on hand who will talk to you about spiritual issues that a patient might have around abortion
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:36 PM

I also think we need to be inviting legislators.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:36 PM

That's great, Robin.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“Then preach to their congregations what people are doing is more satanic than loving.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:37 PM

Kendra -- please let us know how that goes!!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“I'd like them to not use the 'no-true Christian' card so much. Anti-choicers don't represent their specific views, but that argument doesn't get that far with the other side who feels the same way.”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:37 PM

Also, it will be unsurprising to many to know that a good chunk of abortion providers are also leaders in their faith communities
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“I'm going to a United Methodist conference in April (Assembly) & 2 of the workshops I'm attending are "Reproductive Healthcare" and "Social Justice" - I'm hoping to talk about engaging faith leaders in the conversation of choice.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:37 PM

I'm a little tear-y just thinking about it!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“I will!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:37 PM

Yeah, it doesn't surprise me having spoken to so many providers. But that's not a position most are in b/c of the danger providers face.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“Katie, that reminds me of the NYT referring to the plaintiff in the MA case as a 70-year-old grandmother. Clearly the writer has never been to a shift, because the older antis can be just as vicious.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:38 PM

Yeah, that's what made my friend Dean's piece for the Daily Beast on our NJ clinic so great. He came out and walked the sidewalk, making himself a target. And then he wrote about it from "outside" our movement. (He's an ally, but this isn't his beat)
RM

Robin Marty · 11:38 PM

If you ever have a chance, be sure to read "Doctors of Conscience" by Carol Joffe. She speaks to a number of abortion providers about their jobs, and many of them speak of the role faith plays in their lives and how it lead them to their work
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:39 PM

And, of course, rent After Tiller on iTunes now that it's available.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:39 PM

The doctors talk about their conflicts and personal feelings. And they really humanize their work and their patients.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:40 PM

I think -- Robin tell me if you agree -- that's the easiest/fastest way to tell if a person who says they are religious is genuine.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:40 PM

If they speak about the patient as a person, I am more likely to engage with them.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:41 PM

I think there are people of faith who do struggle with where life is; the genuine, compassionate folks will talk about the woman in human terms and not disregard her, focusing only on the fetus.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:41 PM

Me too, Andrew. Whole box of Kleenex.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“It's on my reading list!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“After Tiller positively destroyed me. So powerful...”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:42 PM

I think Robin may be having a parenting moment...it is that time of day. ;)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“Another great book I haven't seen mentioned yet is The Story of Jane (Chicago ex-pat here, so had to mention it). It addresses the pro-choice faith movement, which was my first exposure to that.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:43 PM

And seriously, go get Robin's book. Not just b/c we're friends, but b/c she and her co-author Jessica predicted what's going on legislatively and in the courts almost spot on. "Crow After Roe"
RM

Robin Marty · 11:43 PM

I can see you asked me something, Katie but can't seem to scroll back to see what it was
RM

Robin Marty · 11:43 PM

I am the Cassandra of reproductive rights bans :(
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:44 PM

No worries. I was just asking you to correct me if I was wrong. The genuine people of faith -- even if they are personally pro-life -- talk about the woman in human terms.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:44 PM

That
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:44 PM

**That's how I decide who to engage with.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“One thing that's always gotten to me is whenever I speak about faith & choice, I'm told to keep quiet because it might offend people of our church. I want to change that so bad.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“@Kendra: That is a definite problem in many areas. For a country that enshrined free speech as the 1st part of the Bill of Rights, we have a problem with questioning the status quo.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:45 PM

@Kendra - That's a revolutionary act, just talking about your faith and your RJ stance side by side. Doing that is going to change the landscape of access and discrimination.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“@Kendra: Wow, that's awful. I haven't pro-choice issues a lot, but LGBT+ issues. For me, I've always been met with "friendly" debate.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:45 PM

Rosie makes a good point -- b/c LGBT issues are getting (emphasis on getting) less controversial, it's not as testy of a subject to broach. Abortion? Still off limits.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:45 PM

since we are onto reading lists now, I would suggest a copy of francis schaeffer's "Whatever happened to the human race" to understand what brought the evangelicals into the abortion fight
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:46 PM

And there's been refocusing [[read everything Robin says to]] b/c of the extremists losing on LGBT issues; they're all in on abortion at this point.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“Add in that I live in a small town in Georgia, well, it's not too pretty, ha.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“@Andrew & Kendra - Agreed, we really do have a problem in all areas with letting people with different ideas have a voice”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:46 PM

I've dealt with religious people who are pro-life who almost to a fault believe in exceptions
RM

Robin Marty · 11:47 PM

I also have seen that when I talk one on one with religious people who are not activists, I can give a situation and almost invariably get them to agree that in THAT case an abortion would be ok
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:47 PM

The groups Robin was describing at the beginning are very strategic.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“Heck, sometimes broaching abortion among ostensibly pro-choice people can make them somewhat uncomfortable...I feel you, Kendra!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“@Katie - Never thought to look at that before; it really is true!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:48 PM

When a plan isn't effective, they shift strategy.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:48 PM

@Michael -- SO FRUSTRATING.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:48 PM

Kendra, you actually might have more luck than you think - Georgia's anti-abortion community is going through a huge schism right now
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:48 PM

Huzzah! Robin always gives you some good news and sunshine rays.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“@katie spot on”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:49 PM

a new org is popping up because they actually believe that Georgia Right to Life is too anti-choice
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:49 PM

Interesting....
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:49 PM

I also think highlighting the UBER extremists is a good way to get on the fence people of faith to join in.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“"Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will" - MLK Jr.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“@Robin Sure doesn't feel like it some days! But this sounds like good news!”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:49 PM

it's a little step, but when groups are fighting to allow exceptions, then at least we are moving a little further away from the extremism of the personhood folk
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:50 PM

YES!
RM

Robin Marty · 11:50 PM

I have a story I like to tell about my mother in law. She works for the local preist
RM

Robin Marty · 11:50 PM

priest
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:50 PM

I've had SO many people weigh in both publicly and privately about the ProLife Action League's Lenten campaign <sigh>, but also about the Abolish Human Abortion faction that's making our sidewalks, schools, AND CHURCHES less safe.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“@michael new fav quote”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“@Katie: Yes, I was just about to ask about pointing out antis gleefully displaying hangers, showing absolute contempt for women's health.”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:51 PM

She went up to him one day after reading my book and said "Father, I'm not really sure if we should be so harsh when we talk about abortion. What about when a woman is really sick?"
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“I often wonder how non-extremists can see such things and think their views are represented by such people.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:51 PM

Andrew -- I hear from them a lot now. Even people who are personally or politically pro-life DO NOT like the AHA tactics of picketing schools and chasing patients around.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:51 PM

Robin, that's awesome!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:51 PM

(smart phones are our best defense)
RM

Robin Marty · 11:52 PM

and he said "well, she still never needs an abortion." and she said "What if she's been raped? Should we really force her to go through that?" and he said "Still, that's no excuse for an abortion." and she said "Father, aren't we being rather cruel?"
RM

Robin Marty · 11:52 PM

He said, "We need to stop talking about this now." and she said "yes, because I don't think we agree anymore."
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:52 PM

Wow.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:53 PM

One person at a time, am I right?
RM

Robin Marty · 11:53 PM

talking about reproductive rights and faith is just like any other reproductive rights issue
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:53 PM

Yes, one person at a time. Talking works wonders.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:53 PM

It creates empathy in others.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:53 PM

start by meeting people where they are, not where you think they should be
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Thomas

“Thanks, y'all. I appreciate the info, but i've gotta take off. All the best!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:53 PM

With you, Michael. It isn't either or. Just opening up in our personal lives to the people around us.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:54 PM

Good point, Robin.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“I think we can do something about institutional problems without having to convince every individual, but every individual who changes there mind does help, heh”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:54 PM

If you can start with exceptions from a person who says "I just don't want it used for birth control." then start there
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“@Robin - I love that!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:54 PM

Yes, acknowledge people's starting points.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:54 PM

later you can bring in more real life situations.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:55 PM

I think that's the genius of how After Tiller was put together. They start with the more sympathetic cases and push forward. It's a good example.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“Empathy is really powerful, we all have more in common than that which is different”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:55 PM

Sharing personal stories has worked for me. The people I've met at clinics, some of their stories are heartbreaking. It can bring walls down.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:55 PM

(obviously not with names)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:56 PM

Now, that doesn't mean go debate every jerk you come across. You'll burn out.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:56 PM

Most of all, speak out whenever we can. They have silent no more. They have the claim that everyone will regret an abortion. Counter that. As Heather Ault says, Every Day, Good Women Have Abortions
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Ladies, i'm so sorry I missed most of this. Can't wait to catch up with the dialogue. I want to thank you both for doing this!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“I've always noticed that myself, as Robin mentioned. That breakdowns of surveys show granular pro-choice attitudes even if folks considers themselves 'pro-life'”

RM

Robin Marty · 11:56 PM

Thanks, Rebecca - you know where to find me if you ever want to chat
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Benita Ulisano

“That is very scary about IN Robin!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:57 PM

@Michael makes a great point.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:57 PM

People who claim the pro-life mantel, often mean personally not politically.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:57 PM

Indiana is making fantastic strides. Indy feminists is coming in to make sure IRCC isn't alone anymore :)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:57 PM

They know reality -- outlawing abortion doesn't eleminate abortion. OR they would never choose for another person.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:57 PM

Yeah, Indiana is really inspiring right now!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“With Hobby Lobby, how do you think we talk about "religious freedom" and how the definition forwarded by HL could go both ways? I.e., maybe a Christian working for a Muslim may find him/herself forced to pray facing Mecca?”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“Or are the people advancing that view mainly extremists who won't listen to reason?”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:58 PM

Andrew -- I think we'll have to do that chat closer to the SCOTUS decision. ;)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:58 PM

Clarice -- that's how I talk about my abortion. I say simply "My abortion saved my life."
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“There's a billboard on my way home from work that has faces of three women and is captioned, "I've regretted my abortion, but there is hope" I really want to fix it to highlight the lives that have been saved through safe abortions”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:58 PM

@A no worries! We're just down to the last two minutes.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:58 PM

;)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:58 PM

Which reminds me!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:59 PM

Go follow Robin -- @RobinMarty and me -- @Katie_Speak; Robin's a great follow and we both love chatting with pro-choice folks.
RM

Robin Marty · 11:59 PM

were you about to say buy robins book?
RM

Robin Marty · 11:59 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Crow-After-Roe-Separate-Standard/dp/1935439758
RM

Robin Marty · 11:59 PM

:P
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:59 PM

GET ROBIN'S BOOK.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:59 PM

And then bug her about a follow up. ;)
RM

Robin Marty · 11:59 PM

and I'm @robinmarty
RM

Robin Marty · 12:00 AM

@michael - I do chats for book clubs if they want them :)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

Thank you SO MUCH everyone for coming.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“I'll suggest it for book club”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“well, really, I run it, so I'll make it happen”

RM

Robin Marty · 12:00 AM

thanks, yall! I have screaming crying children to corral...
KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

This topic is huge and important and I am so excited about all the escorts in the crowd and people I know are not religious, but open to working with faith groups.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

Thanks, Robin!! xoxo
KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“cool, I will be in touch :)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

Kendra -- if you want to come on for a chat after your conference, let me know. I'd love to have you.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“I'll get it next time I'm paid :)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“Thank y'all for doing this! I love talking about my two passions - faith & reprojustice, so this has been great!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Nam

“thank you!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kendra Cooper

“@Katie - That'd be great!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“(Oh the irony. My dad just turned on Fox.)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“Thanks!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Andrew Daar

“Thanks!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rosie Driscoll

“Thanks!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:03 AM

And this is what I do full time now -- I'm always happy to connect people to resources. Also, this transcript stays put so you can use it to find links and each other!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 12:03 AM

Gnight everybody!