Eleanor Goldfield

Host

Fix it or fuck it?

Mar 25, 2014·351 visitors

Lee Camp

Cohost

Stage· 348 messages

Mar 25, 2014

Many activist organizations use the existing system to fight for change. Is it worth it? Or do we just need to etch-a-sketch and start from scratch?

Lee Camp · 10:59 PM

Welcome fellow cynics, fellow doubters, fellow fighters! The system is fucked up and we have to find a way to either fix it or fuck it (since they're fucking us). ...Quick note - Please tell people you're here! Tweet it. FB it. Tell them to come!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Hey everyone! Thanks for joining us!

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

There are a lot of ways the system needs changing/fixing/disrupting. Eleanor's gonna start us off --

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

And hello Lee

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

Hey El!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

So basically - as Lee said - the idea is whether to say fuck it or use the system we have to fix the problems

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

For example, right now CA is working on SB1272

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

This proposed legislation would state that corporations aren't people and money is not free speech

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

and push for a 28th amendment stating the same, overturning Citizens United

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

And that's a great example of fixing it - at least locally.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

And this all began as a very localized grass roots initiative

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

Other areas of the country have also passed anti-Citizens United bills or anti-NDAA bills.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

Taylor - I sometimes really do feel that way.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

However, I do agree with Lucy as well.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“wouldnt you need to fix what we have now,to fix what is come?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Taylor Thorington

“I say fuck it. There's no fixing it now. Fuck it so hard that'll need to hide in the bathroom with a tube of soothing cream for hours afterwards.”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

But generally burning things down doesn't result in much change either.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

This grass roots organizing and activism within the frameworks that exist - for example, electing people who support these initiatives can work.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

But setting things on fire can be fun. But yes, not always useful or productive

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

has anyone noticed intitiatives or activism like this where they live?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

wow. initiatives...

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

But El, there's a big caveat to this - which is (just one example) getting Democracts elected some people feel is "the first step" (or I guess others beileve the GOP) but in fact that is not a step in any direction but straight ahead.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

true Lee - but that deals with the issue of education and disseminating information

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

people have to understand the problem before they can fix it

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

Getting Obama elected in 2008 very much felt like a "fixing it" step. But he has simply codified many of the things that were the worst policies of the Right Wing.

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

Very true.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

exactly. left and right are wrong.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

that's part of the problem.

Lee Camp · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shiva Raye

“So you are a Wolf-Pac supporter?”

Lee Camp · 11:05 PM

I support Wolf-Pac and all money-out groups.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

@Shiva - i absolutely feel that we have to overturn citizens united

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“voting for the lesser of two evils,still leaves you with evil.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“Neither party is trustworthy, both are corporate shills..this could be the time for an emergence of a powerful, people powered new party movement...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

Totally agree, @Kathy. So then, work make that happen as opposed to etch-a-sketching the whole thing...

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

I also think that a vast awareness/ a vast awakening can happen without getting anyone "elected." And it's the thing that could bring true change.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

@Comet - using your money to make a statement is INCREDIBLY powerful

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from comet demuta

“i've been going to a few meeting of ppl standing up and trying to change things for the better. i suggest disengagement of as many sections as possible let your consumer power bring it down gently with economics. put simply, dont buy it, or into it”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

Totally agree, Lee

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

Griffin - which models?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“Actually we may need to look at the models used in the past, and either adapt them, or AVOID them.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

@Griffin - fuck, I wish more people knew history. For example, how corporations used to be tied to charters. Ah, the good ole days

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“hey everyone! :) so excited about this tawk :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Taylor Thorington

“@ Elanor, but Molotovs speak VOLUMES in compare”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

@Taylor - having almost been hit by one, yes they do. but not necessarily a cohesive language :)

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i agree with Lee about the awakening,but again how do you get people who are "comfortable" in their lives to change? or even tot think about change?”

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

Most people aren't comfortable- they think they are. Many people are depressed and don't know why. Perhaps the biggest reason for that depression is the fact that we've been convinced we "want" things we don't actually want.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

@Lucy - they have to realize that it does affect them. That anyone who's ever been to a school, a library, a bus stop, a restaurant, a public park - they experience politics constantly

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

You can never get enough of that which you don't need.

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

And that's why we always feel we're short - we always feel we aren't really living life. ...because we're not.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“I have been employing Comet's ideas in my life and encouraging other to, also...we do have consumer power, still....”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“people need to first realize that republican or democrat.. they are both out to screw the common person and take/keep as much money and power as they can they don't care about our wellbeing”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

except everyone here, right lee? ;)

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

Right!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

@Griffin - true. Corporations already had a lot of power before that decision came down.

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“It feels to me that Citizens United is merely the most obvious symptom of a disease. The MOLE that hints at a CANCER.”

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“I think the biggest reason for depression is the belief that we don't have the power to change anything”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

but that is a lock on the chains. have to break it off before we can untangle this cluster fuck

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

Griffin - I think we can do both. We can fight for a better system and still try to do things that will help lives, like repealing Citizens United.

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

Careful Monica. Don't go running around handing out syphilis to people.

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from monica G

“I think a good health scare can bring people back to common sense. Nothing like sitting in a hospital for a few months- and realize what is REALLY important. Not the latest and greatest, but that which can't be bought.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

@Jason - how do you suggest we do that?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“Fuck It, Replace it!nnWe need to Embrace the NLRBE (Natural Law Resource Based Economy) and progressive movements like Zeitgeist, the Venus Project, Thrive, Ubuntu, etc.”

Lee Camp · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“We could look at the old Roman Republic, then mix in some of the older intentions of the Jeffersonians.”

Lee Camp · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“We need to listen and learn from visionaries like Nikola Tesla, Buckminster Fuller, Jacque Fresco, Peter Joseph, etc.nnFor a Better World full of Abundance, Happiness, and Freedom for ALL!”

Lee Camp · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“What we need is a reason to believe, which a better example provides.”

Lee Camp · 11:11 PM

Anton - You're absolutely right! A good example means everything.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“Hey, Monica..wasn't Fukushima and this last weeks events at Carlsbad a health risk enough???”

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

And it's fear of good examples that is causing states to crack down on sustainable living. Here's my new video on that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAVpDMy3RRA

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

Watch the video after the Tawk

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I mean at this point we are just beating a dead horse. All the research on organizations and where they are headed all say we are moving away from hierarchy and stratification and moving towards more innovative and collaborative companies.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

@Rachel - there is a lot of good news as well - a lot of positive reinforcement like Anton mentioned. not that you'll see it blasted on corporate media. but it's out there

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“This is the power begind the Apollo moon program - we CAN achieve the seemingly impossible”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

@Terri - can you scrap the current system by working in the system - that's the question

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Terri Clark

“What we need: a guaranteed minimum income, true democracy that is affirmed by law, and a crowd-based currency. I don't see how we can get there without essentially scrapping the current system.”

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

Anton - It's also why the authorities were really fucking scared of Occupy. The Occupy camps were giving out free shelter, food, and clothes to everyone. Many even had free healthcare. They had to stop that good example before it spread like

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

honey on the buttocks of a sexy lady.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

for example, can we overturn citizens united and corporate personhood (again, the tip of an iceberg) by going through legislation that's already in place?

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

El - Will all come down to the Supreme Court? How does that work? Do these local bills go against federal law?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Qualkinbush

“Lee, the state crackdown on sustainable living illustrates the importance of working at the local and state levels to affect change”

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

Terri - Tiny bits of the new system ARE being built.

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“We will simply leave the current system behind when something better comes along - 8 track players anyone?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

SB1272 for example (i only keep mentioning it b/c i'm working directly with it) is a voter instruction. it basically states that CA is against CU and for a 28th amendment

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Terri Clark

“@Eleanor, of course, I do it all day long. But we need to build the new system alongside... and that mean building a new community, and a new culture.”

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

There are tool shares and sustainable farms and local money, etc. etc.

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

However, we need to fight for these things because the corporate interests will try to stop it.

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

Many people now use bike shares and car sharing.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

@Rachel - if you have links, it'd be great to share some of the research you've seen about the good guys :)

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“The real battle is not against corporate rule - we can't win. The real battle is to make something better happen.”

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

Anton - Do you think that can happen with the endless indoctrination of advertising telling us to buy shit endlessly?

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

And telling us we're fat and stupid and boring...

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from comet demuta

“i've been working on organic hydro setup, uses verticle farming style design. made for free.”

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

But can we change before we free our minds??

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

@Lee - as for advertising, I'm working on that as well. Making ads the way big companies do but instead of pushing depressive indoctrination, pushing truth and strength. more on that as it develops :)

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“That is the second battlet - freeing our minds from the assumptions of materialism and consumerism”

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

[PS - 200 people are now here! Tell your friends to come! ]

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

I think we first have to evolve personally

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

no social or political evolution can take place without personal evolution.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

that's why education is so important - and getting the message out

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

El, great plan. Imagine if there were ads telling people they're good enough!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

which people like Lee do with his MOC :)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

@Lee - that's my plan!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

@Mwau'l - exactly

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Qualkinbush

“The first step is getting people to wake up to the fact that corporate media is mostly propaganda designed to control the population in the most profitable manner possible”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“Exactly, ads, music, culture, these efforts need to be mass promoted just as much as mass created..and a bigger vision always needs to be coupled with them”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

pop culture has to align itself with socio-political issues or else nothing will change inside or outisde the system

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“The first step is to see a good example working and then "I never knew it could be this way" happens”

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

Jordan - You really brightened up this tawk. Thanks for that.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

@Jordan - you are a ray of sunshine

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

chemical sunshine ;)

Lee Camp · 11:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Hopefully, the looming environmental apocalypse will provide a wonderful opportunity for a tiny percentage of surviving humanity to start over and build something great!!!”

Lee Camp · 11:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“@Lee You also have to CHANGE the way many people feel about PROPERTY. :(”

Lee Camp · 11:19 PM

Griffin - Have you trademarked that thought?? If not, I'm officially taking it. I own it now.

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

Jason - So you're like me? You pay with everything with handjobs?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

Yep Jason - they're not backed by anything. They are quite literally ideas.

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“The Illusion of Money needs to end, it needs to be stopped, it isn't real, it isn't worth shit, it is just fucking paper!”

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

(Kidding. ...kinda)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“Monetary / Financial systems have far outlived their purpose and usefulness, they are unnecessary and irrelevant, this shit has got to go.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

@Lee - no wonder you're always so tired.

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

ONLY MY HANDS ARE TIRED!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

ice packs. you'll be fine.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“people feel like they need money to be motivated but at the end of the day shit still needs to be done regardless of whether you get paid or not... I agree Jason”

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

Glad you were here.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“We are Handy people you would see Lee?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“yes, it sounds like oh rape the resources, but no, its use what the best tech and science can provide. to save as mauch nature as possible.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“that's why we created all of this technology wasn't it? to make things better? that's what I thought...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

there's a lot of amazing technology out there that could help us in shifting paradigms and the system.

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

Are there other ways to get money out of politics? Or is it mainly local bills?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

@Lee - that's the question of the hour :)

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“no, we created technology with the same self servicing purposes as everything else. Technology is a tool of intention.”

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

Mwau'l - Technology can be used for good or evil, but they tend to come under the hand of large corporations.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

@Mwau'l - self serving can be good if that self is humanity as a whole

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

there's so much technology out there that makes the world a better place for everyone, not just ronald mcdonald

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“Indeed our Leaders are self serving jerks but I don't feel that removing Money from Politics or Term Limits goes far enough. I say we get Politicians Out, Get all the Lawyers, Bankers, and Businessmen Out.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

@Jason - of course.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

overturning citizens united is not the answer to all our problems

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

but it's a start. that's the thing. do we say scrap the whole fucking thing in one wave of revolution or try to fix it as it was built - in stages

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“@both y'all: true”

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“Arizona is kind of backwards but the Clean elections do work well. http://www.azcleanelections.gov/home.aspx”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“We need smarter people with Scientific / Technical / and Engineering Knowledge. We need People with ACTUAL Problem Solving Skills coming to decisions instead of making them, and these decision will be arrived at based on FACTS, EVIDENCE, etc”

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

It's yet to be seen whether Deblasio will be a great mayor, but he is much farther left than anyone else who ran and the reason he got elected was because NYC has spending limits. They have matching funds and spending limits. It actually does work.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yeah, things were pretty awful even BEFORE Citizens United. It's not like politics used to be clean...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“I think the process of fixing/fucking will all be in stages. That very process of updating within true relevancy is what we need to engage in collectively”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

@Lee - good point. And @Mwau'l - agree with that completely. engaging in this political sphere (which you do even if you don't know it) collectively and moving towards a single goal is imperative

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

Yes, and Citizens United is not the law that made corporations people. That had happened before.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

@Griffin - that's how it used to be

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“I like the idea of setting a lifetime on corporate charters... they either prove their value to the community, or they DIE.”

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

Griffin - Totally! Corporations should need consent of the people to continue to exist.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

And that can happen, just like it did, through legislation.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Patrick Mastrobuono

“People are comfortable. Even the ones being crapped on are comfortable... for now. The rules are being made and made palatable to everyone else by whomever is winning the game. Whomever is winning the game then spends all their effort in justifyingit”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:28 PM

@Patrick - that touches on the idea of making people aware. If you walk up to people and ask if they're ok being robbed - most likely everyone will say no. it's about raising awareness.

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Comet - political systems are not corrupt. People are corrupt. Political systems are corruptING.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:28 PM

the power of the people is greater than that of the people in power

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

And we need to democratize the workplace. Corporate boardrooms should be elected - Workers would never VOTE to have all their jobs sent to China.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I agree Patrick as human beings we are so scared of the unknown or change of any kind which is why people call you "radical" for wanting to change the system, even if it is for the better”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:28 PM

@Lee - very true. And workers would work harder and more efficiently if they all felt that they owned a part of it - that their input mattered

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

Jordan - I don't think that's true. Not all are. It's that the ones who are rise to the top of the system.

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“The only political system that could work would be based on the understanding that humans are helpless against corruption”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

@Mwau'l - studies show that companies that are democratized make more profit long term

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yes I love that idea Lee and that gets to the root of demanding more moral, honest, and upstanding organizations”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“But could a workplace whose bottom line is profit consider the employees in that regard?”

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

And they're the ones in the position to use the system to manipulate others and keep themselves in power.

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“@comet. Correct. That is why there was a strong, determined effort to keep government to be REPRESENTATIVE, not truly democratic.”

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“Competition is complete bullshit and part of the problem with the world today, people competing to live, to survive, to feed themselves and their families, it is all wrong. No one should have to compete for the necessities of life or for happiness.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Qualkinbush

“@ Eleanor Exactly, people are more motivated to do a good job if they have a greater stake in the business where they work”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“that's the tough part being able to see "ambition" apart from "narcissism" and "love of power" within those you promote within a company”

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

Yes, Jason is right, we continue to compete as if we have to take all the money we can get. But in fact there are enough resources for all if we deal with them properly and fairly.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“I just want to say, our current politcal/economic system is totally fubar”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“Our Values are all fucked up, the World is all about Money / Power / and Control, it is all about Greed and Selfishness, Competition and Scarcity, Consumerism / Consumption and Endless Cancerous Growth, Profit and Materialistic Desires, etc. etc.”

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Patrick Mastrobuono

“The only counter I see is finding & praising real heros: firefighters, teachers, etc. And showing everyone their hypocrisy.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

@Jason - ours, as a people, as an evolving populace are not fucked up. We need more active participants

Lee Camp · 11:32 PM

Patrick - I do find it funny that people USED to talk about teachers, etc. as a really noble thing to be. And children wanted to be teachers. But NOW everyone is told to look to be rich. So people act like being a teacher is some kind of failed life

Lee Camp · 11:32 PM

As if we should all want to be bankers.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“exactly Lee! So the question I have is if politics can properly/adequately manage abundant resources by their processes of opinions and outdated legislations”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:32 PM

@Mwau'l - governments need to be in place to govern people. but they should obviously do so in the INTEREST of the people, not in the interest of a bottom line

Lee Camp · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“In Canada, four of every ten Canadians are members of at least one co-operative. In Quebec, approximately  70% of the population are co-op members, while in Saskatchewan 56% are members.”

Lee Camp · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“thats why we don't like it, we are born free and learn our own chains.”

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

Terri - Yes, AND COMEDIANS.

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Terri Clark

“@Lee, we need more poets and dreamers, really.”

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

But we need to be taught again that poets and writers is something to shoot for. Being an artist should be noble again - rather than the way we mock it.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“we as a people need to become more socially responsible and realize that is just as much our duty as it is those we vote for to make sure the system is working for the majority of the people”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

@Mwau'l - the people do. That's the thing. Some people are leaders, some aren't. that's just nature in a nutshell.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“Do people need to govern people? Who says one person is better than another at governing? Seems that some of the most fucked up are the ones claiming those positions?”

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

I've said before that women need to save the planet - How about it Eleanor?!

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“right now we definitely need female ideas.”

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“and we need to equalize our values of other people as well.”

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

(I know you're trying. Perhaps we should get you some help.)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

and i don't think there's anything wrong with that paradigm. as long as the leaders maintain the interests of their constituents, a movement with leaders is the only way forward. a leaderless movement will never make it.

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

Anton - I'm trying!

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“So Lee - be an artisit that everyone wants to imitate!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

ha Lee! i could use some help. as a feminist, i think we need both penises and vaginas working on this fucked up world :)

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“I think Kelly may have a point. Most of our despicable governmental models sprang from MALE minds and ideals.”

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“I'm all for that, Lee!”

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

Yeah, but maybe we need the vaginas to rule for awhile.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“We should be pushing for a system that inspires harmonious self governing.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

@Mwau'l - how is that different than anarchy? and how would that keep people from rising to the top like the koch brothers? leaders will rise - it's what they do. if a government is in place to define their jobs and their duties, that's when you get

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

success

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

Ryan - A lot of those assholes are on the police forces.

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“unfortanetly there are too many assholes for self governing to ever work.”

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“Hey, fuck rule. How about a few of us VULVAS just start a band. Any takers?”

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

Kathy - are we talking connected to bodies? Or detached?

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“Ya, Elenore so correct..we must have enlightened penises and vagina's doing this work of important change.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

@Lee - as long as they're enlightened, who cares

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“Both..either..whatever works...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

@Mike - it's like communism or anarchy. It looks good on paper but doesn't work in reality

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

Jordan - Don't walk towards the light!

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“Harmonious self governing is great, but there probably isn't enough money in it.”

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I once tried to enlighten my penis. Burned it something awful!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“If the collective intention is sustainability and efficiency and there's no incentive to "rise above" maybe it could work. But i think the is the conversation to be had. Fuck the current system, how can we make a system that inspires that?”

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“We have to wake people up to the bogus mess that money has gotten us all into...the hoarding of money is why we are all in this mess...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

@Mwau'l - good question. There's an argument both for working in the system and saying fuck it, start again. Currently, I'm working within the system to change it.

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

[Quick note - 236 people are here! Please tell more people to come on by. Just quickly post on your FB and Twitter and shit like that]

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

Mwau'l - Eleanor is the lead in a band.

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

(a great one at that)

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from comet demuta

“if we had stayed a matriarchal society as the celts had and not adopted or forced upon a christian penis model things would be a lot different i believe.”

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“So what the fuck?! Where my vulva band member at? ugh.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

:) thank you Lee

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

rooftoprevolutionaries.com

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

I'm the only vagina in the band, however. but the penises in the band are also attached to great guys

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

it happens

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

Speaking of that - here's Eleanor's new music video. You gotta see this shit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C85R0q3ysMQ

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

:) thanks lee! you're so much better at PR than I am

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

I should hire you

Lee Camp · 11:40 PM

Totally

Lee Camp · 11:40 PM

I'm good at manipulating people into not being manipulated.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sean C

“I think that most activists fighting for change is a step in the right direction. Though I think it would be ideal to start from scratch, it is highly unlikely to happen without a massive intervention from the bottom up.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

@Sean - true. and then the question is, is it worth it?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

considering such a revolt probably wouldn't be peaceful, quick or easy

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

Thanks Anton!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

Thanks Anton! Thanks for joinining us

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Anton Camarota

“Must sign off - good luck Lee and Eleanor!”

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

Jason - That's we have to get our media outside the corporate media.

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

““When you control opinion, as corporate America controls opinion in the United States by owning the media, you can make the many believe almost anything you want, and you can guide them.” — Gore Vidal”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

@Dennis - very true.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Dennis Owen

“Bottum is the only way change will happen”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

hahaha! thank you monica for asking the real question :)

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“Seriously, I can see the people getting so fed up that they overthrow everything. I think it would be quite a few years from now and I wouldn't want to be around to see it.”

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from monica G

“But the real question is: where's that dang plane???”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from comet demuta

“Today i was i found my first hero. i dont usually do heros of any sort. But this one person is so my heroine. Such a rare and kind earthling. my heroine!”

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

Chris Hedges calls many of the smaller things "release valves" - We protest for gay marriage and achieve it (hooray) but it acts as a release valve while the pillaging continues.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“Mike - i want to be around to see it.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“I think we're deluded in thinking we even *can* start from scratch. Standing on the shoulders is inevitable. unless we're all going to all throw away our computers, houses, glasses, clothes (well, I'm definitely all for that)...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

@Lee - good point. You interviewed Chris. He said that revolution was the way to go, yes?

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Qualkinbush

“At some level, for now anyway, we are forced to work within the current system. At least until we can create the infrastructure to replace it.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Terri Clark

“Can't we just, for once, have revolution without blood?”

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

I agree that we need to build a new system alongside the old - otherwise you can end up like Egypt. Military will fill the void once things fall and then you will find yourself in the same or worse situation.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

@terri - I would love to say I think that's possible, but even if we on this side would want that - someone is going to throw a punch or a grenade. and then there's a domino effect...

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yeah as a movement we need a clear direction we are going and clear values and ethics that we will simply not tolerate. Such as continuing to pollute every inch of our planet”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“I agree with Chris hedges..lots of our "gains" are given not taken...”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

WORLDWIDE WAVE OF ACTION is APRIL 4th!

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“Zeitgeist movement is the way to go!”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

https://waveofaction.org/

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“How about we give our ethics committees real balls to actually prosecute those who are taking bribes and passing laws that benefit their businesses?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

@Kailyn - regulatory committees need serious political and social ammo. that's sorely lacking

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“What is a Government without People? It is just a small group of crazy radicals talking to themselves. People are what gives anything power.”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“grow your own food.”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from comet demuta

“The Venus project as well!”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“we live in a society where it is considered necassary for everyone to have a job in order to contribute to society,and earn a living.”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

Ryan - Yes and there are laws cracking down on those who try to live off the grid. That's what my new Moment of Clarity video is on - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAVpDMy3RRA

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

@Rachel - exactly. Spread information

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“we need to show the people how completely screwed they are getting everysingle day... get them pissed”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

@WaveOfAction on Twitter

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“Everyone would need to work, but they would not need a "job".”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from comet demuta

“If we poured the energy into actually creating something really cool. and then ppl see this they will adopt. Lead by example?”

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“I think we need to show people the potentials, wet their appetite, get them sipping for me, then throw the shit-reality their way and have them tang a bite before they even realize whats what”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

@comet - leading by example is very powerful. that's the idea behind SB1272. putting forth that the entire state of CA is against corporate power.

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“If we spend $ on things that help the planet, electric cars, solar power, organic food, then businesses make enough $ to lobby and become more powerful. Other interests edged out.”

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

Wes - Then you find yourself in jail saying "fuck their laws"

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“we must say fuck their laws, we no longer believe in this game that is ran by psychopaths”

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

Rachel - I wish people understood that.

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“my fav MOC is still the one where Lee explains how if we were doing things right the technology would be working for us and we would be free to expand our minds and continue to improve humanitt”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

There are books from the mid-20th century where great thinkers thought we would soon see a time where no one had to work - due to technology, but instead we've DOUBLED the work for everyone.

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

It's NONSENSE!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“Still have to try change from within as frustrating as that may be.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

@Kailyn - a good example of positive change inside the system.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Organic farms are now making major money and taking shelf space in supermarkets. Pretty soon word will get out about GMOs and no one will want them any more and grocers will stop carrying if no one buys.”

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

Ryan - Most people don't get it and then there's a small group of people who DO get it and fight to make sure it never happens.

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“we have the ability to eliminate manual labor, but nobody wants to do that, at least, nobody that can”

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“at this point the only labor that is necassary is intellectual labor”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“With all the money in the world today...No one should HAVE to do a conventional nine to five, unless it's their passion...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

Not just with all the money in the world, but with all the potential for "work" outside the box.

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

Griffin - Monsanto sues small farms for using their seeds (even accidentally)

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“@Kailyn. Corporate farms have in the past LITIGATED smaller organic farms into history. They will do it again if they feel threatened enough.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

@Ryan - even people now with minimum wage jobs aren't surviving.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“but, if we do eliminate manual labor, then there would be countless numbers of people that no longer have jobs. thus they would have no money. so the question then, is how do they survive?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:51 PM

And the evolution of technology, education and information would allow and could already allow for countless jobs in new and productive job markets

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:51 PM

like green energy, for example

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

i guess i fail to see the point in this

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“true science as best that term can make it.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“I don't know how we couldn't be free of fossil fuels at this point considering scientists first started developing renewable energy technologies back in the mid to late 1800s into early 1900s.”

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jason Lowe

“Tesla did huge things in this field and would have literally changed the world if he had the funding and wasn't silenced and made into a "outcast".”

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“That's why you have to replace the system by doing what you can within it and always push for a bigger vision simultaneously, because the shifts can't work without the bigger shift to a system based on natural laws and resources making everythingfree”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

Actually Diesel who "myseteriously died on his boat" had drawn up designs for his engines to run on alternative fuel. oil companies didn't like that

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

and that was late 1800s i believe

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

What if we used all these drones to find people that need help or find water or other shit, rather than just using them to deliver Netflix??

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

so yes, the technology is and has been out there - just have to get it into the greater populace's hands

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Sorry I'm late! Had a last-minute makeup class! Dude, what we need it to STOP EVERYTHING for a little bit and draw up some reasonable plans and start again.”

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

Most of you have heard me say this before - a quote from Alan Watts "Saying you don't have enough money to do something is like a builder saying he doesn't have enough inches. We have the nails, wood, and workers but not enough inches."

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:54 PM

haha - that's a good quote

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“we have the technology to do sooooo much, but the people that can make it happen, won't”

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

Ryan - People are told the corporate lords will decide how to use the technology. It's not our job.

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

Leave it to the lords.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:54 PM

@Ryan - the people would and I think will. it's the dick sticks in the 1% who won't

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“fuck the lords.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

@Griffin - they won't change. WE have to change.

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“I dunno, drones deliver plenty of death effectively.”

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

Agreed.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“@ryan. Why should they change? They are getting fatter by running the status quo into the ground.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

we have to get educated, informed and engaged. then shit can start happening for the better

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“Leaving it to the lords is going to mean extinction for us...”

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“Their psychopaths for real..or sociopaths..whatever, they are fucked up beyond repair. At least beyond our current repair methods”

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

Ha, Marc, I guess you're obsolete.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

@Mwau'l - totally agree. I wouldn't dream of trying to fix them. But fixing the system they've co-opted...that's a different story

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Marc Daczewitz

“this thing works too fast for me. at 36, am i too old for this?”

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

Ryan - There are some countries doing that.

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Branin

“but there should be a bottom line of comfort that is provided to everyone, regardless of your sociall status.”

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

...creating a base level at which people can live.

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

Yes, Bhutan has Gross Domestic Happiness rather than profit.

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“BHUTAN!!!!!”

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

And it works - They're one of the poorest countries and yet one of the happiest.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“I'm surprised that the far right has not yet proposed that we deport the unemployed.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:57 PM

@Mike - they need them to make an example of how the left is doing everything wrong. same reason the left need them.

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

But we here in the US HATE a good example, so we don't talk about Bhutan.

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

Here's my video on our hatred of good examples - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAVpDMy3RRA

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“Western Europe and Scandinavia have us beat in almost every way possible when it comes to taking care of their citizens instead of their wallets”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“People get greedy because they want comfort, so they buy devices and 'stuff' for comfort, ease and to 'fit in.' When the fear of breaking a sweat and not being like everyone else is removed, we'll be free.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Erik Schlintz

“The basic needs for sustenance, protection, privacy, transportation, information, and communication need to be able to be met for everyone, without a creating a dependency on the government, or on minimum wage slavery.”

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

These are our last minutes tonight but you're welcome to stay and keep chatting. Please keep in touch with me at www.Facebook.com/LeeCampComedian

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

@Rachel - yep. I grew up in Sweden and god damn do I miss free health care

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

As well as LeeCamp.net and @LeeCamp on twitter

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

Damn. Time flies!

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

Also watch Eleanor's AWESOME new video! Why the fuck haven't you watched it?!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

haha - clearly b/c they've been here!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

but yes, watch it and let me know what you think!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“really Eleanor?? I want to move to Iceland.. but I feel like that's giving up lol”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

@rooftoprev @rooftopeleanor

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C85R0q3ysMQ

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“you both rock! :)”

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“thanks Eleanor and Lee! :) Great Tawk! :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

haha - will do @Mwau'l - lemme know where you are in the world, and I'll summon some ;)

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“Eleanor is you ever meet some vulvas wanting all vulva band, hit me up!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

Thanks again everyone!

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

Thanks all!! Keep fighting. Check out the Worldwide Wave of Action - it's growing every day and starts April 4th

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Griffin Darklighter

“@Jason. Capitalism is many things, but it is NOT CHAOTIC. It is carefully planned and rehearsed in it's methods.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

rooftoprevolutionaries.com

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Dan Thiates

“Thanks, Lee and friends!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“Baltimore Maryland ;)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Qualkinbush

“Thanks for organizing this session :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mwau'l Womb

“Peace revolutionaries, gotta list of videos to pour threw ;)”

Forum · 680

Forum· 680 comments

351 visitors

Tawkers AdminMar 25, 2014, 4:54 PM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Matt smithMar 25, 2014, 6:47 PM

Fuck it ofcourse.. Sometimes you can just admit your not good enough or go out of your way spending the rest of your life proving your good enough failing to remember that eventually in life something good will come http://yourjobpay.com/?id=40305

Louis KlompMar 25, 2014, 8:46 PM

A rabbit may go it's entire life without ever seeing a fox, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't learn to run. We never left the jungle.

Louis KlompMar 25, 2014, 8:47 PM

Yet, year after year, century after century, we still fight stupid wars at the behest of greedy men, for the justification of allowing them to go on robbing us of value of our own production.

Louis KlompMar 25, 2014, 8:47 PM

We marvel at our own genius, at our ability to grapple with and harness the complexities of the universe, from the sub-atomic to the astronomic and everything in between.

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 10:18 PM

some light reading - "Off Grid -free yourself" - http://www.off-grid.net/about-us/

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 10:42 PM

maybe we should use a "paint-by-numbers" system

Taylor ThoringtonMar 25, 2014, 10:54 PM

Fix it or fuck it? why not fuck it THEN fix it?

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 10:55 PM

I don't think "fuck it" is a very constructive or responsible choice. Fucking it has already been done by those in power anyway...if we can't get together as a majority of progressives..the fucked reality is here to stay..in my sense of the issues...

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 10:58 PM

As it appears the current system is designed to maintain the status quo by exploiting the under classes in order to further enrich the wealthy, I have serious doubts about our ability to effect positive change from within the system.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 10:58 PM

We've been fucked enough. Now we really need to find a way to UNFUCK it.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 10:58 PM

Greets from oz. Apologies i haven't been arounds much, trying to stay afloat iams.

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 10:58 PM

For this reason I lean toward the 'fuck it' side of the argument.

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 10:58 PM

Nonetheless, the vast majority of people relay on the current system for their survival, so any new system will have to be built in parallel with the existing one in order to minimize the disruption to people lives.

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 10:59 PM

This isn't the first time large numbers of people massed to protest corruption, but the whole idea of it in the information age, armed with twitter other social media, is what makes it scary to the powers that be. They work for us.

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 10:59 PM

fuck the disruption to peoples lives. if a new way of living has to be brought,so be it

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 10:59 PM

103 years ago today, the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory in New York City caught fire, causing the deaths of 146 garment workers.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:00 PM

Safety standards were established, and the International Ladies Garment Worker's Union became powerful enough to protect workers against the worst forms of exploitation.

Taylor ThoringtonMar 25, 2014, 11:00 PM★ Spotlighted

I say fuck it. There's no fixing it now. Fuck it so hard that'll need to hide in the bathroom with a tube of soothing cream for hours afterwards.

Stephen KeelingMar 25, 2014, 11:00 PM

? Do you really think them whom rule are just going to go silently into the dark? No way. In reality, nor would any of us. All that singing, complaining & protesting won't change much. So don't you think we need a war, not with guns, but technology?

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 11:00 PM

at least those in charge can say "i fucked it good and proper" with a smile on their face

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:00 PM

How far have we come in 103 years?

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 11:02 PM★ Spotlighted

wouldnt you need to fix what we have now,to fix what is come?

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:04 PM

We have a terrible Co2 problem..burning things will make that even worse....

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:04 PM

heh made it

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:04 PM★ Spotlighted

So you are a Wolf-Pac supporter?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:05 PM

we need to think for ourselves.

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

voting for the lesser of two evils,still leaves you with evil.

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

Neither party is trustworthy, both are corporate shills..this could be the time for an emergence of a powerful, people powered new party movement...

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

i've been going to a few meeting of ppl standing up and trying to change things for the better. i suggest disengagement of as many sections as possible let your consumer power bring it down gently with economics. put simply, dont buy it, or into it

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

Actually we may need to look at the models used in the past, and either adapt them, or AVOID them.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:06 PM

has anyone here watched any off the grid with jesse ventura?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:06 PM

venus project.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

hey everyone! :) so excited about this tawk :)

Taylor ThoringtonMar 25, 2014, 11:07 PM★ Spotlighted

@ Elanor, but Molotovs speak VOLUMES in compare

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 11:07 PM★ Spotlighted

i agree with Lee about the awakening,but again how do you get people who are "comfortable" in their lives to change? or even tot think about change?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:07 PM

Without knowing history we are doomed to repeat it.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:08 PM

can we do that with the right questions? With no offence meant to another?

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:08 PM★ Spotlighted

I have been employing Comet's ideas in my life and encouraging other to, also...we do have consumer power, still....

Taylor ThoringtonMar 25, 2014, 11:08 PM

The higher ups fear change, instability. When you tell them that you'll boycott them, you're still playing in their arena, the arena of money. But burn down a few buildings and suddenly you're playing on your own terms.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:08 PM★ Spotlighted

people need to first realize that republican or democrat.. they are both out to screw the common person and take/keep as much money and power as they can they don't care about our wellbeing

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:09 PM

Maybe part of the problem is lack of a popular direction to go other than the current paradigm. If you end the FED, which one of 12 other possibilities would we replace it with?

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

It feels to me that Citizens United is merely the most obvious symptom of a disease. The MOLE that hints at a CANCER.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

I think the biggest reason for depression is the belief that we don't have the power to change anything

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 11:09 PM

its all fucked up and shit and its sprinkled with hundreds and thousand and baked the old fashioned way. its a fattening,sugar coated ass-headed shit storm. i just hope more people will wake the fuck up and see the truth

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:09 PM

Which of course is a fale belief

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:10 PM

but anton they instill that belief in us... :/ sick and wrong

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:10 PM

That and the popular American diet...well...sucks. Eat your probiotics if you are depressed.

monica GMar 25, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

I think a good health scare can bring people back to common sense. Nothing like sitting in a hospital for a few months- and realize what is REALLY important. Not the latest and greatest, but that which can't be bought.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:10 PM

People need to express themselves. But how will our voices be heard if we are not at the golf clubs with the political powers?

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

Fuck It, Replace it!nnWe need to Embrace the NLRBE (Natural Law Resource Based Economy) and progressive movements like Zeitgeist, the Venus Project, Thrive, Ubuntu, etc.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

We could look at the old Roman Republic, then mix in some of the older intentions of the Jeffersonians.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

We need to listen and learn from visionaries like Nikola Tesla, Buckminster Fuller, Jacque Fresco, Peter Joseph, etc.nnFor a Better World full of Abundance, Happiness, and Freedom for ALL!

monica GMar 25, 2014, 11:11 PM

haha, it was my own awakening :) and I'm all the better for it.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:11 PM

venus project, it needs the transition.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

What we need is a reason to believe, which a better example provides.

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

Hey, Monica..wasn't Fukushima and this last weeks events at Carlsbad a health risk enough???

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:11 PM

visionaries like Eleanor and Lee as well c;

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

I mean at this point we are just beating a dead horse. All the research on organizations and where they are headed all say we are moving away from hierarchy and stratification and moving towards more innovative and collaborative companies.

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 11:12 PM

but then i get so damn frustrated that people wont or dont listen. will it take,god forbid,something like a nuclear explosion or something for most to realise?

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:12 PM

and from this research the U.S. is so far behind every other nation almost

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:12 PM

But basically; we have to look at as many models and try to see why they FAILED.

Taylor ThoringtonMar 25, 2014, 11:12 PM

All agree that a change needs be made, but the methodology is in question. So do we throw our cars into the pool and hope to overwhelm the system from the inside, or burn the whole thing down and rebuild from there?

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

This is the power begind the Apollo moon program - we CAN achieve the seemingly impossible

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

What we need: a guaranteed minimum income, true democracy that is affirmed by law, and a crowd-based currency. I don't see how we can get there without essentially scrapping the current system.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:12 PM

man... Doesn't response lag SUCK? LOL

Lucy DyerMar 25, 2014, 11:13 PM

anyways,i've gotta go. keep fighting you two! till next time :-)

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:13 PM

people are a product of their environment. The knowledge of all we experienced.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:13 PM

That was a great video Lee, but yea The Movements and Organizations are out there Eleanor Goldfield they just need more exposure. Most people still haven't heard of them

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee, the state crackdown on sustainable living illustrates the importance of working at the local and state levels to affect change

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:13 PM

If enough people could form sustainable communities the rest of society would begin to realize this is doable..and we could have the numbers to change the current restrictive legislation..

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:13 PM

we need to grow our own food and get off grid right?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:14 PM

get away from the control of having to move matter for money?

Taylor ThoringtonMar 25, 2014, 11:14 PM

The system exists to keep the system in place. Trying to fight it from the inside is suicide.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

We will simply leave the current system behind when something better comes along - 8 track players anyone?

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:14 PM

Not so easily done for people in cities, Kelly.

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

@Eleanor, of course, I do it all day long. But we need to build the new system alongside... and that mean building a new community, and a new culture.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:14 PM

yes if we just stop buying into it.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:15 PM

@Eleanor and @Anton I love reading about positive research and initiatives organizations are taking but it is sad that as a practioner myself we have to find ways to tie well being of the employees into profitability for the organizations to truly

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:15 PM

change

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:15 PM

What tiny bits? Tell me some good news :)

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

The real battle is not against corporate rule - we can't win. The real battle is to make something better happen.

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:15 PM

@Lee, oh I know. Just not fast enough. We don't really have much time...really!

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:16 PM

it really comes down to human behavior in the end doesn't it? who supports it and who is with it, those who might even be both.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

i've been working on organic hydro setup, uses verticle farming style design. made for free.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

That is the second battlet - freeing our minds from the assumptions of materialism and consumerism

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:17 PM

I am going to be cataloging a aquaponic greenhouse.

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:17 PM

@comet, I'd love to hear more about that.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:17 PM

Inner change always precedes outer change

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:17 PM

well I mean one example would be looking at an organization like costco vs. walmart costco took into account their employees well being and incorporated their ideas and they pay their employees well. versus walmart and we all know what they do.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:17 PM

employes aquaponics, a pond to give it water, breeding endangered fish, frogs ect. can grow things in the pond like water chestnuts

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

The first step is getting people to wake up to the fact that corporate media is mostly propaganda designed to control the population in the most profitable manner possible

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

Exactly, ads, music, culture, these efforts need to be mass promoted just as much as mass created..and a bigger vision always needs to be coupled with them

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

The first step is to see a good example working and then "I never knew it could be this way" happens

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:18 PM

I also try and think of over unity devises. i want to try something with nitinol, dont know for sure it will work but, could be one in a home easy and provide all you need except water.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 25, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

Hopefully, the looming environmental apocalypse will provide a wonderful opportunity for a tiny percentage of surviving humanity to start over and build something great!!!

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee You also have to CHANGE the way many people feel about PROPERTY. :(

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:19 PM

or we realize now how to fix it.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:19 PM

haha Jordan - maybe after the damn apocalypse we can finally live in peace! lol

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:19 PM★ Spotlighted

The Illusion of Money needs to end, it needs to be stopped, it isn't real, it isn't worth shit, it is just fucking paper!

Jordan BirnbaumMar 25, 2014, 11:19 PM

That's me, Lee! Turning lemons into eye-scalding lemon juice.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:19 PM★ Spotlighted

Monetary / Financial systems have far outlived their purpose and usefulness, they are unnecessary and irrelevant, this shit has got to go.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:20 PM

exactly.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:20 PM

Here is am amazing example to learn about: http://www.friendsofgaviotas.org/

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:20 PM

So, a resource based economy is a better answer?

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:20 PM

the sixth great extinction which we are in now! and are causing should be avoided at all costs. it will be hard to forgive ourselves!

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:20 PM★ Spotlighted

people feel like they need money to be motivated but at the end of the day shit still needs to be done regardless of whether you get paid or not... I agree Jason

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:20 PM

Gaviotas is the essence of a new world order built on imagination and sustainability

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:20 PM★ Spotlighted

We are Handy people you would see Lee?

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:20 PM

which had got tired first?

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:21 PM

Hello everyone. Sorry I'm late... Gwenyth Paltro and Chris Martin are splitting up.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

yes, it sounds like oh rape the resources, but no, its use what the best tech and science can provide. to save as mauch nature as possible.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:21 PM

or say either way, words ya know...

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

that's why we created all of this technology wasn't it? to make things better? that's what I thought...

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:22 PM★ Spotlighted

no, we created technology with the same self servicing purposes as everything else. Technology is a tool of intention.

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:22 PM

@kelly, but it's also a matter of realizing what we, the takers, the humans, really need, and not just what we want.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 25, 2014, 11:22 PM

Why can't we all move to a mountain range and live together outside the system?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:22 PM

I have watched many hours of venus project info, talks with jaque fresco. Beyond politics, poverty and war? well dam I think he answers all the questions you have except one.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:23 PM

i think they call that a cult jordan.. but I'm down lol :)

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:23 PM

Sure - require all elections be publicly funded only.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

Indeed our Leaders are self serving jerks but I don't feel that removing Money from Politics or Term Limits goes far enough. I say we get Politicians Out, Get all the Lawyers, Bankers, and Businessmen Out.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:23 PM

it should be our choice. thats freedom.

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:23 PM

What kind of tool would take our apathetic populace and motivate them to create and Earth like Pangaea on "Avatar" ? That is pretty much the *answer* we need, but can we do that with the *current* system.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

@both y'all: true

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:23 PM

well if they amended the constitution wouldn't that make money in politics illegal throughout each state? the 28th amendment they want to pass?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM

elect who? what if we all govern ourselves in a state of abundance?

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

Arizona is kind of backwards but the Clean elections do work well. http://www.azcleanelections.gov/home.aspx

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM

If we can't effect legislation to reform our current policies we are just spinning our wheels...

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM

for sure, i guess my point didn't come across clearly.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

We need smarter people with Scientific / Technical / and Engineering Knowledge. We need People with ACTUAL Problem Solving Skills coming to decisions instead of making them, and these decision will be arrived at based on FACTS, EVIDENCE, etc

monica GMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM

just curious your thoughts on when: run for the cure, pink for the cure etc. came out?? a way to avert our eyes elsewhere.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM

We need people that are Knowledgeable about ACTUAL REAL WORLD THINGS, SIGNIFICANT THINGS instead of the STUPID "MADE UP" BULLSHIT of LAW, BUSINESS, and BANKING which are nothing but SYSTEMS OF SLAVERY.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM

we do not need what they do. don't ya see? they are using us against us. LOL its a whole big huge mind twist.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

Yeah, things were pretty awful even BEFORE Citizens United. It's not like politics used to be clean...

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

I think the process of fixing/fucking will all be in stages. That very process of updating within true relevancy is what we need to engage in collectively

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:25 PM

competitive market system?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:25 PM

I can solve problems.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:25 PM

"All political systems are corrupt, i'll say that AGAIN all political systems are corrupt systems!". Jacque Fresco

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

i just need the resources but I am trying to find better ways now. gunna put full effort into this.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

I like the idea of setting a lifetime on corporate charters... they either prove their value to the community, or they DIE.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

I agree I feel like true logic and reasoning are so severely lacking in every part of our system.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

When money is removed and term limits are enacted, we will finally have the power to get politicians out.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

I built a HHO generator.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

Clean elections do work when funding for campaigns is restrictied to public funds. The issues papers in AZ require candidates to post all of their proposed policies.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

@comet: corrupt? maybe. Irrelevant. Definitely.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

take a look at carbon nanotube or graphine. crazy tech.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

Eleanor you are correct, the coproations arose from the charter companies of the 1500s

Jordan BirnbaumMar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

Comet - political systems are not corrupt. People are corrupt. Political systems are corruptING.

Patrick MastrobuonoMar 25, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

People are comfortable. Even the ones being crapped on are comfortable... for now. The rules are being made and made palatable to everyone else by whomever is winning the game. Whomever is winning the game then spends all their effort in justifyingit

Ben WolfsonMar 25, 2014, 11:27 PM

that was Valeo v. Buckley

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:27 PM

There happens to be one SMALL problem with most of our current technology; it is still dependent upon FOSSIL FUELS for basic power.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

I agree Patrick as human beings we are so scared of the unknown or change of any kind which is why people call you "radical" for wanting to change the system, even if it is for the better

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:28 PM

Ask a politician, how do you prevent arid soil? or car mortality rates? or poverty? what will they say?

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:28 PM

@Griffin, I believe it used to be that way.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:28 PM

Democracy, basically mob rule. Corrupt. but i do get what your saying.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 25, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

The only political system that could work would be based on the understanding that humans are helpless against corruption

Ben WolfsonMar 25, 2014, 11:28 PM

Just like Worker's Councils in Germany

Patrick MastrobuonoMar 25, 2014, 11:28 PM

They hire mind control experts to find ways to make themselves look like the heros. And who disagrees with them as crazy radicals. Or jealous, whiny, or delusional

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

But could a workplace whose bottom line is profit consider the employees in that regard?

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

yes I love that idea Lee and that gets to the root of demanding more moral, honest, and upstanding organizations

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:29 PM

this is not an overnight thing. its a subtle change that takes time, i think we are in it right now. we just need to get our voices heard.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:29 PM

Unfortunately, the greedy can screw up any political system.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

@comet. Correct. That is why there was a strong, determined effort to keep government to be REPRESENTATIVE, not truly democratic.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

Competition is complete bullshit and part of the problem with the world today, people competing to live, to survive, to feed themselves and their families, it is all wrong. No one should have to compete for the necessities of life or for happiness.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:29 PM

Competition is for sports, games, and other meaningless / unimportant / "Fun" type things. Collaboration is the Key to True Human Enlightenment, Inventiveness, and Progress.

Dennis OwenMar 25, 2014, 11:29 PM

We need to implement a Natural Law Resourced Based Economy.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:29 PM

yes venus project, the idea shows how to go beyond politics.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM

Forget corporations, create cooperatives instead. See REI for a working example.

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM

We need to talk up this idea of changing the corporate philosophies of profit for sure...

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

@ Eleanor Exactly, people are more motivated to do a good job if they have a greater stake in the business where they work

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM

cool, lets get all the crazy power hungry's to look at the studies then.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM

I just want to say, our current politcal/economic system is totally fubar

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

that's the tough part being able to see "ambition" apart from "narcissism" and "love of power" within those you promote within a company

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

Our Values are all fucked up, the World is all about Money / Power / and Control, it is all about Greed and Selfishness, Competition and Scarcity, Consumerism / Consumption and Endless Cancerous Growth, Profit and Materialistic Desires, etc. etc.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM

yep our current system is a control devise to use us against us.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM

You cant buy what i got c;

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:30 PM

it controls our laws.

Patrick MastrobuonoMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM★ Spotlighted

The only counter I see is finding & praising real heros: firefighters, teachers, etc. And showing everyone their hypocrisy.

Stephen KeelingMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM

We are all kidding ourselves if we think all the chat is going to fix anything. The only way it will get fixed, is if we hit the reset button. Like "live free die hard". All the rest is just noise.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM

In the United States, 30,000 co-operatives provide more than 2 million jobs.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM

@Jason yep and then we in turn reward people for acting this way and then wonder why there are so many douchebags running around knocking people over to get to the top. a good society wouldn't pit their people against eachother

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM

the problem then is, how do we distribute everything fairly.

Lisa Del ReyMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM

The economy in and of itself is fucked up and that is what cause most our current social and economic atrocities. So...until that comes crumbling down...don't waste your energy and fuck it. Oh...and I Love You Lee! :)

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM

they are controlled by the world banks. pay off your loans. never have debt.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM

there is one solution.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:31 PM★ Spotlighted

exactly Lee! So the question I have is if politics can properly/adequately manage abundant resources by their processes of opinions and outdated legislations

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

Reward creativity instead of cronyism.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

they get their power from us.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

Our economy the way it is right now is such the antithesis of the actual word and definition of economy it is not even humorous.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

In Canada, four of every ten Canadians are members of at least one co-operative. In Quebec, approximately  70% of the population are co-op members, while in Saskatchewan 56% are members.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

the economy is fucked up because the rich hoard it at the top

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

thats why we don't like it, we are born free and learn our own chains.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

especially if i aint selling, but i would give it to you for free

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

from our environment.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

HEROES!?! Find your own heroes. Once you make someone a hero, there will be those that become jealous and will try to find a way to smash that hero to DUST. :(

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

I'm talking about the traditional or archaic definition, that of being thrifty, efficient, etc, a self sustaining, self renewing, abundant, everlasting habitat of an economy. That to me would be the "real" definition of the word economy.

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee, we need more poets and dreamers, really.

Patrick MastrobuonoMar 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

An article I read made a good point: Why are douchebags getting management jobs. Because people confuse confidence with competence. The shouting guy "looks: like he knows what he's doing.

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM

Being a front line employee at a bank is just another slave labor position, it's the bank exec that sets their rules.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

we as a people need to become more socially responsible and realize that is just as much our duty as it is those we vote for to make sure the system is working for the majority of the people

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM

I think co-operative ownership is a very important change we could make...

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

Do people need to govern people? Who says one person is better than another at governing? Seems that some of the most fucked up are the ones claiming those positions?

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM

And comedians...LOL!

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

and we need to equalize our values of other people as well.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

right now we definitely need female ideas.

Ben GelblumMar 25, 2014, 11:33 PM

It's a great debate this. But it needn't be a dichotomy: total revolution OR using the system we have. True freedoms have been won and social changes made by campaigning from the streets as well as voting the lesser evil in and lobbying from within.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM

nature..broad statement to make.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM

@eleanor, with our current sytem, that will never happen because the only people that get put into power, are that people that want to be, which are usually exactly the people that cant be trusted with power.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM

yeah it shouldn't be thought of as "governing" or controlling people, but as a larger system that makes sure that people are getting the necessities in life

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM

By the way, BP just had a spill in Lake Michigan south of Chicago.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM

"and the men who hold high places must be the ones to start to mold a new reality closer to the heart." -Neil Pert

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM

i dunno ppl love comedians for telling them the bad stuff, but musicians like myself get a bit more of a raw deal?

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

So Lee - be an artisit that everyone wants to imitate!

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

I think Kelly may have a point. Most of our despicable governmental models sprang from MALE minds and ideals.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM

equality is key that also includes saying someone is greater then you, and put them on a pedestal.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

I'm all for that, Lee!

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

We should be pushing for a system that inspires harmonious self governing.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

Science and Technology were suppose to set the Human Race free, not enslave us further. There are so many useless jobs, careers, positions, etc out in the world it is not even funny, so many things could easily be computerized, automated, etc

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

what is art? our language itself is an art, a social art, would you not agree?

Sean CMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

One of the fundamental problems stems from the majority of people's lack of awareness and ignorance of what is going on around them. They would rather hide their head in the sand than actually confront the problems within our society.

Dennis OwenMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

Make people realize that dont have to be slaves anymore

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

the problem with that Lee, is we get so sidetracked and drug down into the man's way of thinking.. I agree women need to stand up and remind the world that compassion and empathy are just as important

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

but no push.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

unfortanetly there are too many assholes for self governing to ever work.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

you cant push ideas.

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

I think we need both penises and vaginas working together. I feel weird saying that since I'm pretty gay personally.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

you reveal ideas.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM

I always thought Art was the guy that hung around in the theatre lobby.. ;)

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

Hey, fuck rule. How about a few of us VULVAS just start a band. Any takers?

Alison HolbrookMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM

Interesting to read this. Here in the UK, things are equally dire. Lots of the same issues.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM

yup agree, less penis more vigainas for a while lol

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM

there will always be people who just want more more more

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

Ya, Elenore so correct..we must have enlightened penises and vagina's doing this work of important change.

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM

@Ryan, they were all once children. Still are, some

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM

it's hard to find leaders in a movement that values a communal/team-work oriented way of life... I do agree a movement needs those figure heads that the masses can get to know

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

Harmonious self governing is great, but there probably isn't enough money in it.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM

Lee- the rest are poloticians or ceos, well whats the difference anymore

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

Both..either..whatever works...

Jordan BirnbaumMar 25, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

I once tried to enlighten my penis. Burned it something awful!

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:37 PM

the environment of those people is drivin by a system of one over the other, their job depends on it, from their perspective, they see it as right.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:37 PM

A nation of millions rules by detached enlightened vaginas living in laboratories?

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:37 PM

@Mike who cares about money?

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:37 PM

If the collective intention is sustainability and efficiency and there's no incentive to "rise above" maybe it could work. But i think the is the conversation to be had. Fuck the current system, how can we make a system that inspires that?

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

We have to wake people up to the bogus mess that money has gotten us all into...the hoarding of money is why we are all in this mess...

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:38 PM

“All warfare is based on deception.” - Sun Tzu, The Art of War, The Powers that be use this one a lot, that is Psychology as a weapon against the masses as well, thanks Bernays!

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:38 PM

True Eleanor!

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:38 PM

we need a cheap, effective way to get off grid, with a water supply.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:38 PM

yep as always the best thing we can do is just keep talking and shouting about it.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

So what the fuck?! Where my vulva band member at? ugh.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

if we had stayed a matriarchal society as the celts had and not adopted or forced upon a christian penis model things would be a lot different i believe.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:38 PM

@Kathy. That's best described as "Malignant Greed".

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:38 PM

Money = power. We really ARE talking about power.

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:39 PM

In Gaviotas They have planted millions of trees, thus regenerating an indigenous rainforest. They farm organically and use wind and solar power. Every family enjoys free housing, community meals, and schooling. There are no weapons, no police,no jail

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:39 PM

one problem is that some of the mst important jobs, are the worst paying jobs.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:39 PM

I could maybe right songs but I can't play an instrument.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:39 PM

@Jason it's funny you say that because as a psychologist we have been continually ridiculed for not being a "hard science" but it seems the govts of the world have been utilizing it for ages!

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:39 PM

“The control of a large force is the same principle as the control of a few men: it is merely a question of dividing up their numbers.” - Sun Tzu

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:39 PM

That's what tends to happen Eleanor

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:39 PM

does cancer require surgery?

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM

Good Old Divide and Conquer, working strong on the masses for millenniums

Dennis OwenMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM

It has to be a revoltion of the mind

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM

while some people get paid rediculous sums for things such as marketing, others are struggling to survive while breaking their back out in the weather

Anton CamarotaMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

Must sign off - good luck Lee and Eleanor!

Sean CMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

I think that most activists fighting for change is a step in the right direction. Though I think it would be ideal to start from scratch, it is highly unlikely to happen without a massive intervention from the bottom up.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM

I have seen thoings doen with vibrational frequencies that say otherwise.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM

Which is why I keep pushing for this, but it seems all the ladies are content being surrounded by the penises. sigh.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM

keep pushing mwaul

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:40 PM

sean- thats the only way we will get any change at all

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

“When you control opinion, as corporate America controls opinion in the United States by owning the media, you can make the many believe almost anything you want, and you can guide them.” — Gore Vidal

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:41 PM

i think that logically we will have to work within the system, there is no way that the masses would agree to radical change. We are going to have to be vigilant and change it little by little it's going to be slow.. :/

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:41 PM

the people at the top aren't gonna change anything because that would take money out of their pockets.

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:41 PM

Kelly, cancer doesn't always or even as often as they do it..require surgery..our cancer procedures are barbaric really..most people die from the curing not the cancer..

Dennis OwenMar 25, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

Bottum is the only way change will happen

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

Seriously, I can see the people getting so fed up that they overthrow everything. I think it would be quite a few years from now and I wouldn't want to be around to see it.

monica GMar 25, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

But the real question is: where's that dang plane???

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

lighthearted television has a way of getting people to take on certain biases and stereotypes from the tv.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

Mike - i want to be around to see it.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

Today i was i found my first hero. i dont usually do heros of any sort. But this one person is so my heroine. Such a rare and kind earthling. my heroine!

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

@monica. "Benghazi!"

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ipgT3Y4co

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

Dennis, I think we are at the bottom...I really do.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

i will probably take part in it

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

I think that many people are flocking away from the mainstream already. others are comfortable zombies. they don't want to be shocked awake.

monica GMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

;)

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

Revolt usually involves the 'losers' being jailed or killed and martial law being instituted--very dangerous!

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

I think we're deluded in thinking we even *can* start from scratch. Standing on the shoulders is inevitable. unless we're all going to all throw away our computers, houses, glasses, clothes (well, I'm definitely all for that)...

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ipgT3Y4co

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

unless we do that than we are building on the old regardless

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

“You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul.” — Gandhi

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM

Ditch the monetary system! Turn shell skyscrapers into vertical crops!

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

At some level, for now anyway, we are forced to work within the current system. At least until we can create the infrastructure to replace it.

Dan ThiatesMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM

I have to agree with the sentiment regarding female leadership. The bond between a mother and her and her child is potent -- imagine if it was applied to the development of society!?

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

Can't we just, for once, have revolution without blood?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM

we can though, it just needs to be tried.

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

I agree with Chris hedges..lots of our "gains" are given not taken...

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM

@ Terri, blood is already pouring.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM

But what about Gwenyth Paltrow and Chris Martin splitting? I don't know how much more I can take...

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM

we cannot think it can't or we give up, must must think we can and put effort into it.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

yeah as a movement we need a clear direction we are going and clear values and ethics that we will simply not tolerate. Such as continuing to pollute every inch of our planet

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:43 PM

These are Americans you are talking about. If you want to motivate them, you better use pie.

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

Zeitgeist movement is the way to go!

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

and there are so many ways to put good effort out.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

@ Terri. There has been NO REVOLUTION without someone's blood being spilled. Innocents always suffer.

Sean CMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

Money is a necessary tool. I think many people get caught up thinking it is evil because people manipulate the world with it. I think it is a necessary means of exchange. I think the real problem is greed and selfishness.

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

@Lee Exactly

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

How about we give our ethics committees real balls to actually prosecute those who are taking bribes and passing laws that benefit their businesses?

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

We have the chance for a bloodless revolution every election cycle, people!!!

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

and hell with all this debt.. we could chuck the money system and start over with tokens.. it's the SAME THING

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

zeitgiest ya thats another resource based economy.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

People equal Power. We are more powerful than any Government or Military, we vastly outnumber them, but we require Unity and Equality to be truly powerful. What is a Country without People? It is just land.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

Oh yes, there will quite a few vying to step into the power void.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

What is a Government without People? It is just a small group of crazy radicals talking to themselves. People are what gives anything power.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM

ya people, get rid of your debt.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

grow your own food.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

The Venus project as well!

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

we live in a society where it is considered necassary for everyone to have a job in order to contribute to society,and earn a living.

Dennis OwenMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM

Ivote for TZM also

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM

venus project woot

Terri ClarkMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM

@Eleanor, I'm still looking for the way to have change without blood. They are ALL our people, aren't they?

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM

Yeah, right now reg. committees only can make suggestions

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM

yet it is the people that make the most worthless contributions that get paid the most

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

we need to show the people how completely screwed they are getting everysingle day... get them pissed

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM

I just did i tawk on the venus project.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:45 PM

and meanwhile the people that make our lifestyle possible are struggling just to survive

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

I think we need to show people the potentials, wet their appetite, get them sipping for me, then throw the shit-reality their way and have them tang a bite before they even realize whats what

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM

we need to spread the word get people all together agreeing on something, and to put effort towards a goal.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

Everyone would need to work, but they would not need a "job".

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM

sipping for more..urgh

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

If we poured the energy into actually creating something really cool. and then ppl see this they will adopt. Lead by example?

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM

thank you lee, don't think i've seen that one yet

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

If we spend $ on things that help the planet, electric cars, solar power, organic food, then businesses make enough $ to lobby and become more powerful. Other interests edged out.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM

people, doing what they want to do in nature, that is help others and communicate usually. should be able to have that freedom.

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM

We live in a changing, morphing society and with enough energy at this point we can effect serious change..we have to get more people convinced we are capable and ready for the "revolutionary" ideas that we bring though... I see the field as ready..

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM

Want to know what one of the greatest human discoveries of all time was? "The Scientific Method". It is a shame we hardly use it nowadays. Because societies actions are the definition of insanity.

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

we must say fuck their laws, we no longer believe in this game that is ran by psychopaths

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:47 PM

y'all, bump the addendum..

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:47 PM

@comet If the idea is good enough, people will steal it type of thinking?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:47 PM

totally

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:47 PM★ Spotlighted

my fav MOC is still the one where Lee explains how if we were doing things right the technology would be working for us and we would be free to expand our minds and continue to improve humanitt

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:47 PM

ya jason i agree with that.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:47 PM

lee, in some places, it is possible to live off the grid

Sean CMar 25, 2014, 11:47 PM

I sometimes have the thoughts and questions on whether we as a society should continue our forward technological progress, or if we should stop much of it and even resort back to a more natural state.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:47 PM

Gives me mush hope to be here thanks!tear of love!

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

Still have to try change from within as frustrating as that may be.

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

Organic farms are now making major money and taking shelf space in supermarkets. Pretty soon word will get out about GMOs and no one will want them any more and grocers will stop carrying if no one buys.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:48 PM

@Sean C, you mean stop using pencils? T-shirts? Wheels? Fire? Oh and you best not use that rock to break nothin. Yea, that's all technology. It's about the intention*

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

we have the ability to eliminate manual labor, but nobody wants to do that, at least, nobody that can

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:49 PM

I am going to try and do that, my cousin is going to be trying an aquaponic greenhouse, fish and plants in thier own eco system. permaculture, maybe omega garden design. I am going to test things and show you all, no money.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

at this point the only labor that is necassary is intellectual labor

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

With all the money in the world today...No one should HAVE to do a conventional nine to five, unless it's their passion...

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:49 PM

yout tube and tawks, whatever i can.

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:49 PM

Tearing down the Federal Reserve is the goal here.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

@Kailyn. Corporate farms have in the past LITIGATED smaller organic farms into history. They will do it again if they feel threatened enough.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:49 PM

I agree. Think of all the cool things we could have right now! And we threw it away to work 3 jobs

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

Johns Hopkins just released a study about how GMO soy is making people really sick--when enough people know about it they'll start to read labels and stop buying it and grocers will stop selling it.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

we need to put forth our own will towards solutions.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

"Automation of all 'useful', repetitive activities frees, at the mass level, an energy that can henceforth be directed towards other activities." - Constant Nieuwenhuys

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

fuck Monsanto

Dennis OwenMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

imagine how many jobs would disappear if money wasnt around

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

@griffin, was this before the...internet?

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

but, if we do eliminate manual labor, then there would be countless numbers of people that no longer have jobs. thus they would have no money. so the question then, is how do they survive?

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

We just need a million or so people to all sue the creation of money at once, and demand a resource based economy!!!

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

@ Mwau'l. This is even AFTER the internet. :(

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

but it's not like we will ever run out of things to do or explore, we are just wasting our time right now staying stagnant we could be like exploring the galaxy

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:50 PM

Automation, 3d printing is crazy, i have a 2400 dollar one, its not perfect but it works for plastic.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

The only manual labor I prefer would be to do something creative.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

we live by sharing ideas.

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

I like the idea of families living together again, sharing the bills, sharing the load.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

before we can do away with manual labor, we have to totally change the system, come up with some other way of distrubing things, other than money

Sean CMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

We need to stop believing that the Earth belongs to us, and realize that we belong to the Earth. Only then will we stop devastating the planet for corporate greed, and learn to live together harmoniously.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

true science as best that term can make it.

Dennis OwenMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

We dont need money to live in a new system

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

switch to a token society. we will call it a "do-over" for the whole money fiasco

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

Ryan. we could give people the means to live. we have that ability...just not the political will, yet.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

I don't know how we couldn't be free of fossil fuels at this point considering scientists first started developing renewable energy technologies back in the mid to late 1800s into early 1900s.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

Tesla did huge things in this field and would have literally changed the world if he had the funding and wasn't silenced and made into a "outcast".

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:51 PM

I got a few good ideas myself.

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:52 PM

we don't need to create jobs for the sake of keeping money going

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

That's why you have to replace the system by doing what you can within it and always push for a bigger vision simultaneously, because the shifts can't work without the bigger shift to a system based on natural laws and resources making everythingfree

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:52 PM

Yes Rachel!

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:52 PM

im working on a fully automated vertical hydro setup to feed myself and others for free. i dont want to waste my life working my heart out. Repetitive manual labor blows! No to manual labor thanks.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:52 PM

kathy- but if we just make everything freely available, there will be people who just take as much as they possibly can.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:52 PM

tesla was into the zero point, dodecahedron structure, powerful stuff.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:52 PM

Giving in to despair is where those of us that TRY fail, and fall into their trap. NOT rescuing our fellows is where WE fail ourselves.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:52 PM

i mean right? a token is the same thing conceptually as money. :)

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

well of course they didn't like that

Rebecca Westbrook TokerMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

Sorry I'm late! Had a last-minute makeup class! Dude, what we need it to STOP EVERYTHING for a little bit and draw up some reasonable plans and start again.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

Exaclty lee

Sean CMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

Have you looked at Space Energy which Peter Schiff and others are working towards. That is one way we can get off fossil fuels realistically.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

WOW. ya i look up paul patone and what they did to him for his geet fuel processor.

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

Ryan.. who gives a fuck but the producers of "Hoarders"?

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

I don't agree Elanor, I don't think it's going to get in their hands unless we shift the system first

John VirgaMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

LOL Lee, one would hope that's what technology would be used for, but alas

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

Rebecca! :) Yes I agree we need to have a plan of attack, because this is a huge clusterfuck

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

we have the technology to do sooooo much, but the people that can make it happen, won't

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

drone delivery system won't work, it's bullshit.

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

We can't NOT change because we think others are asshats...

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:53 PM

had a friend who drove around oz in a car the ran on bio diesl. Still a pollution but he stole the oil from the back of chip shops lol

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:54 PM

Where can we find more inches?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:54 PM

I look for this stuff all the time, and i will tell you the worst part, the miss information. Why is truth important? hehehehe4

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

fuck the lords.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

I dunno, drones deliver plenty of death effectively.

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:54 PM

@Ryan that is the fundamental problem with such a corrupt system being in charge of so many research and development projects and controlling grant money

Rebecca Westbrook TokerMar 25, 2014, 11:54 PM

Rachel, it's so huge, i see no way to fix it unless we agree that it's fucked and we need to start over without many of the accepted notions our current systems are governed by.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:54 PM

yes, why the fuck do we need money? why can we not just all live together and share the things we need to survive.

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

@ryan. Why should they change? They are getting fatter by running the status quo into the ground.

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM★ Spotlighted

Leaving it to the lords is going to mean extinction for us...

Dennis OwenMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

It really looks like revolt is the only option

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM★ Spotlighted

Their psychopaths for real..or sociopaths..whatever, they are fucked up beyond repair. At least beyond our current repair methods

Marc DaczewitzMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM★ Spotlighted

this thing works too fast for me. at 36, am i too old for this?

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

now i'm not saying that everybody should have the exact same amout of shit

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

One person at a time, one step at a time. Like MLK said, "...just take the first step."

John VirgaMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

Lee & Eleanor, what is your #1 thing you would tackle if you could only pick 1? for starters of course...

Sean CMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

Need to refill my drink, everyone stop talking for two mins.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

Money is our chain, for moving matter, simple as that unless you ar into the exchanging ideas.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

@Lee have you see Divergent yet? That is some pretty eye opening Predictive Programming huh? :-P That is the World's Future under the TPP and Capitalism

Erik SchlintzMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

As a historian, it is alarming how much more like the common conception of feudalism we are becoming with the modern corporatocracy than was actually the case in medieval times.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM★ Spotlighted

but there should be a bottom line of comfort that is provided to everyone, regardless of your sociall status.

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

lol, riiight Marc!

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:55 PM

Diesel was apparently working on ways to run on hemp oil and other biological oils,

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

oh you hear, we go backwards here in oz, PM brought back knight hoods lol to much freeking TV!

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

aww, fuck you lee

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

lol

Daniel QualkinbushMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

Ack, then I'm in real trouble at 50!

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

i feel like whoever created money knew what they were doing it is like any other drug you get addicted to... willing to push over anyone and everyone who gets in your way...

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

there should just be abundance really.

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

if you want something above and beyond that bottom line, then you need to contribut to society through a vocation that furthers our soociety.

Mark StoneMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

Does Zeitgeist have a political party? An elbow into the system with a political presence?

Sean CMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

What does everyone think of Jacque Fresco's Venus Project?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

we had the ideas to be there in 1974 for sure.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

BHUTAN!!!!!

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

@ Mark, in New Zeland

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

I'm surprised that the far right has not yet proposed that we deport the unemployed.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerMar 25, 2014, 11:56 PM

BHUTAN figured out Gross National Happiness! We have models!

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM★ Spotlighted

Western Europe and Scandinavia have us beat in almost every way possible when it comes to taking care of their citizens instead of their wallets

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

Global system Mike, unless we deport them to pluto

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

@Mike. Only if they are ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

When I pass cops I yell "costume party" .. is that a legal form of protest?

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

what is it in this tawk hehehe

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

if we can set this bottom line, people will no longer have to waste there lives, working at a dead end job they hate.

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

abundance.

Marc DaczewitzMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

i'm glad people mentioned occupy. not sure what is in this town i live in, i've moved since '11

Shiva RayeMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

Is it hate week again already?

John VirgaMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM

Are you both Libertarian?

Erik SchlintzMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM★ Spotlighted

The basic needs for sustenance, protection, privacy, transportation, information, and communication need to be able to be met for everyone, without a creating a dependency on the government, or on minimum wage slavery.

Kailyn KyleMar 25, 2014, 11:57 PM★ Spotlighted

People get greedy because they want comfort, so they buy devices and 'stuff' for comfort, ease and to 'fit in.' When the fear of breaking a sweat and not being like everyone else is removed, we'll be free.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

if we encourage the notion. You can't buy what we got. Then ppl start to see somethings are beyond money. i'll give some of it for free. But some of it you just can't buy!

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

Once the TPP gets signed and passed you will all get a good look at what the "future" Tyrannical Society would look like using Capitalist Ideology. Companies, Businesses, Corporations, etc; with "Nationhood", having their own separate "Kingdoms".

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

we don't talk about other countries that have figured something out before us. we ignore it and hope no one saw it. the definition of stupidity, all because we didn't think of it

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

Erik, yes, that is exactly the point i am trying to make

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

people get greedy from the hate for the control money is.

Jason LoweMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

It is called "Corporate Nationhood" in the TTP, look it up. The same thing that would happen without Government if Capitalism was allowed to have its Chaotic Way with the World.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

I'm in a fairly new right to work state. I wonder why so many have not exercised their right to be employed.

John VirgaMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

holy crap that was an hour!?

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

really Eleanor?? I want to move to Iceland.. but I feel like that's giving up lol

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM

This was crazy. and Great, thank ya'll.

comet demutaMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM

A honor and a pleasure. Thank you. Peace love and respect comet

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

thanks Eleanor and Lee! :) Great Tawk! :)

Rachel McDonnellMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

you both rock! :)

Mwau'l WombMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Eleanor is you ever meet some vulvas wanting all vulva band, hit me up!

Griffin DarklighterMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

@Jason. Capitalism is many things, but it is NOT CHAOTIC. It is carefully planned and rehearsed in it's methods.

Mike DwornikMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM

Thanks Everyone!

kelly mackinMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM

ok good life all.

Wes LeeMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM

Yeah thank you guyz!

Kathy GrinsladeMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM

Bye, off to watch Elenore's video...

Ryan BraninMar 25, 2014, 11:59 PM

think 1984 by george orwell, everybody had access to what they needed to survive, however, the people in charge made sure they had the bare minimum. rthe bottom line needs to be well above the bare minmum. it needs to provide a certain level of commf

Kailyn KyleMar 26, 2014, 12:00 AM

Not to be a downer, but look at us now, on devices that require minerals mined with slave labor. Our comfort and need to fit in have caused us to help overlords in Africa in the enslavement of children to dig for the minerals we need for our stuff!

Dan ThiatesMar 26, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Thanks, Lee and friends!

Mwau'l WombMar 26, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Baltimore Maryland ;)

Wes LeeMar 26, 2014, 12:00 AM

FOr putting your lives on the line

Alison HolbrookMar 26, 2014, 12:00 AM

Thanks all. From the UK perspective, we are all in the same boat, guys x

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:00 AM

I know, its market competitive idea. has that effect

Daniel QualkinbushMar 26, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Thanks for organizing this session :)

Mwau'l WombMar 26, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Peace revolutionaries, gotta list of videos to pour threw ;)

Jason LoweMar 26, 2014, 12:01 AM

Capitalism isn't Chaos huh? It isn't Chaos for the Capitalists themselves no, but for everyone else, very much so

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:01 AM

choas comes from the lack of freedom.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:01 AM

jason, but what are our other options?

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:01 AM

have the government control everything?

Rachel McDonnellMar 26, 2014, 12:01 AM

it's all fun and games until the people being shoved to the bottom get pissed... we can solve this. night everyone had fun!

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:02 AM

we all know exactly where that will lead

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:02 AM

there should be no control system, when we breat we breath ,when we eat we eat.

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:02 AM

@Rachel. It's all fun and games until someone brings out the guillotines and the carts, eh?

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:02 AM

kelly, without control, ther will be people who just take as much as they possibly can

Jason LoweMar 26, 2014, 12:02 AM

so the only two choices to you are Capitalism or Government?

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:02 AM

not with abundance.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:02 AM

no jason

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:03 AM

why would you steel when you can ask, or make yourself.\

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:03 AM

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:03 AM

but we have to have some measure of control, otherwise it will be chaos

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:03 AM

why do you think they shelf technology

Dennis OwenMar 26, 2014, 12:03 AM

Check out the Zeitgeist Movment they have some great options

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:03 AM

@ Jason. Haven't you noticed that captalism has already co-opted the government that was intended to keep it under control?

Jason LoweMar 26, 2014, 12:03 AM

The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, Thrive, Ubuntu, etc. lots of good ideas out there.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:04 AM

people, in a free environment, will not try and take advantage of others, it will not even be understood.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:04 AM

I know

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:04 AM

i have read about all of those

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:04 AM

jason, there should be no price to basic comforts.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:04 AM

cuz they are good ideas.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:04 AM

The system is fucked up yes

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:05 AM

what i'm saying, is if you want mor than the basic level of comfort that society decides everyone should have, you have to work for it

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:05 AM

yes it is control over us by our own ideas.

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:05 AM

@Kelly. I have seen how desperate and degenerate people can be in many situations. Some are only a hairsbreadth from a savagery that would shock you. :(

Jason LoweMar 26, 2014, 12:05 AM

there should be no price to anything, money / currency / etc are all made up ideas

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:05 AM

yes, i will gladly donate my time towards the good of many.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:06 AM

this basic level of comfort, call it the bottom line, should include housing food clothing, all the necessities, plus a little exttra

Jason LoweMar 26, 2014, 12:06 AM

Monetary / Financial system have far outlived their purpose and usefulness, they are unnecessary and irrelevant, this shit has got to go

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:06 AM

thats basically what i am trying to do.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:06 AM

There are people that have had this theme as their main priority for a long time

Sean CMar 26, 2014, 12:06 AM

I'll give your mom action if you know what I mean. ;)

Dennis OwenMar 26, 2014, 12:06 AM

Take care of needs first then worry about wants

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:06 AM

jaque fresco was on larry king in 1974.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:06 AM

and that dude know his stuff.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:07 AM

Thevenusproject.com has much more information about what is being done

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:07 AM

If governments truly want to reform their welfare systems, why not put people that have been in those systems as recipients plan the reforms?

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:07 AM

yes, money does not work. but, if you just allow everyone to have everything that they want without working for it, there won't be enough people who contribute to society.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:07 AM

3d printing and carbon nanotube, man, so may thing i can think of.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:08 AM

You hit the nail on the head ryan.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:08 AM

kelly, yes there are amazing things that we can do with technology now

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:08 AM

I know

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:08 AM

thats why i'm saying there should be a bottom line, but to get anything beyond that, you have to contribute to society in some way.

Jason LoweMar 26, 2014, 12:08 AM

I completely disagree Ryan http://youtu.be/u6XAPnuFjJc

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:08 AM

even the navy did research on nitinol for the president and gave a report back saying they should go towards this technology.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:09 AM

untill it full automated ok.

Dennis OwenMar 26, 2014, 12:09 AM

We also would have a diffrent value system than this one which ics just here to make consumers

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:09 AM

as long as our efforts are properly used I'm game for that.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:09 AM

jason, this bottom line, will be a standard of living high enough that you can live in content, without having to do anything to better your situation.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:09 AM

ppl will always contribute and give ideas.. much like the way Ubuntu works

Jason LoweMar 26, 2014, 12:09 AM

people will contribute, people aren't going to sit around and do nothing all day

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:10 AM

ecaxlty

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:10 AM

@Kelly. You do understand that the materials used in 3D printing are petroleum based, don't you? The technology for converting other oils into such plastics is currently held up by the same corporations that own the petroleum industry.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:10 AM

there are people that given the chance will sit around and do nothing all day

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:10 AM

the scarcity problem is irrelevant now that we have the techonology to produce .. mass produce should I say

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:10 AM

ummm 3d printing can do organs food concrete titanium steel steanless steel and many more.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

i disagree ryan.

Jason LoweMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

the world has never had full employment anyways, so I'm not sure what the hell the worry is anyways, and besides that like has been mentioned many times, automation

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

true Kelly.. our technology far outgrowed the economic system

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

you will sit and do nothing if there was no tv?

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

kelly, but for 3d printing you still need the raw materials the "ink"

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

I rather doubt that the technology for organ printing will ever become a household item in our time... But, I could be wrong!

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

kelly, you don't think that people sit around doing nothing all day?

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

sry for my bad english.. I'm contacting you from Venezuela.. My country is in ruins.. as well as many other.. thx to this absurd system

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:11 AM

ya resources, no getting beyond that, that is the key right?

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:12 AM

nope i think people worry about stuff, watch tv and do everything that people do, most people cannot stop thinking.

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:12 AM

An underground economy based on different resources/technologies may be what is necessary.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:12 AM

the problem with the system is.. there are ppl in power.. ppl that have the guns and money to do whatever they please.. and they will not give power just like that

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:12 AM

i have known people that never do anything that takes them out of their comfy computer chair or couch in front of the tv

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:13 AM

exactly they are watching tv.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:13 AM

they are products of thier environment.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:13 AM

yes, and not doing anything to contribute.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:13 AM

what are we doing right now?

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:13 AM

There ya go you are right there.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:13 AM

we are engaged in intellectual discussion

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:13 AM

you want to know where i am stuck?

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:13 AM

At least we are tossing ideas and possibly planning future tactics.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:14 AM

that is different from sitting around playing video games and watching tv

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:14 AM

sure kelly

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:14 AM

how can we get ourselves to see our own chains and stop supporting the current system that enslaves us.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:14 AM

it really is, our choice.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:14 AM

i honestly don't know

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:14 AM

let me give you my idea.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:15 AM

I am not the kind of guy that just gives out info for ppl to join a movement or stuff.. but since this is precisely aimed at addressing the issues we have today.. I'll highly recommend getting a more into what The Venus Project has in mind.. Jacque

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:15 AM

i am still working on it.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:15 AM

Jacque Fresco has worked with this his entire life.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:15 AM

i have ideas on what to change the sytem to. i don't have a damn clue how to impliment that change

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:15 AM

i know dan i know

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:15 AM

Kelly, many of us DO SEE our chains. We just can't figure a way out of them that includes the possibility of SURVIVAL.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:15 AM

can you guys see my chat?

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:16 AM

I just hope you saw them soon enough to have little to put on.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:16 AM

yes dan

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:16 AM

yes dan

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:16 AM

i have 0 debt well right now 500 LOL but most times 0.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:16 AM

kelly, i see my chains, i just don't know how to get rid of them.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:16 AM

i live, i rent.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

oh ok.. sry.. just thought you were not copying

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

and i admit, at 18 i already have over $10000 of debt

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

student loans

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

that's why i am trying to find low cost methods of creating energy and food.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

kelly, we have those.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

water i have one thing that they have today.

Dennis OwenMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

They built a hell of a slave system.and most have no clue

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

we just don't use them

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:17 AM

because we all work.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:18 AM

corporations don't like the words "low cost"

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:18 AM

at least not for the things they are selling

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:18 AM

because we put our effort into supporting a system that enslaves us to build the ideas of the 1%.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:18 AM

they want their labor and raw materials to be low cost, but their products to behigh cost

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:19 AM

you go ask the kock brothers to weld there own dam pipeline LOL.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:19 AM

lol

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:19 AM

see what im saying

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:19 AM

we could destroy the system if we all just decide not to go along with it.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:19 AM

if every police and military man stoped working for the military.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:19 AM

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:20 AM

its OUR choice

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:20 AM

if the masses one day decided they didn't a=want to go to work, the bosses would have no option but to go along with it

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:20 AM

we DO have complete freedom. we just sign it away.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:20 AM

YES

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:20 AM

thats the control system, from the environment of money.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:20 AM

money gone, not needed anymore.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:21 AM

by by time to grow out of it.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:21 AM

the biggest problem is that people won't work toegther and cooperate, becaus to many people are "ok" with the status quo

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:22 AM

everybody will be deeply affected.. then they will not know what to do.. just like us atm

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:22 AM

Or are they sadly happy with what is happening from not knowing, ingnoring the problem?

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:23 AM

yes, and even the people that have opened their eyes, are already too heavil shackled to do anything about it.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:23 AM

it all comes down to, think for yourself, and you will find, we all think the same, we would just like what we would call a good life.\

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:24 AM

if you have several children, and a mortgage that you can barely pay, you aren't gonna rock the boat too much.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:24 AM

I know, i definitlely am not saying, everyone will agree.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:25 AM

yes, i think that the two major things keeping this system going are ignorance, and for those that aren't ignorant, fear.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:25 AM

but if enough people are just being the change we want to see, those weak minded people begin to wake up.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:25 AM

there are a few things we can do daily

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:25 AM

very true but what is i said they are one and the same.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:26 AM

ignorance and fear.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:26 AM

1 is..to share information in a brief and incitive way.. just like Lee Camp has lately

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:26 AM

and the other thing we can do is educate ourselves about where there origin of the problems are and talk about it

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:27 AM

you can look in any dictionary but it will have MY context to what i mean here.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:27 AM

we must get rid of ignorance at all costs.. it's a virus.. reason is the cure

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:27 AM

can we truely communicate our ideas fully in english?

Griffin DarklighterMar 26, 2014, 12:27 AM

Peace and BB, Folks!

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:27 AM

later

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:28 AM

another thing we have to tackle is anything that separates us as brothers... try to ignore it.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:28 AM

we accept those

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:28 AM

nope. but it's the only language i know, so it'll have to work

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:28 AM

ignore is ignorance

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:28 AM

so far as we keep focusing on the things that separate us.. we'll be vulnerable..we need to understand that we are all equal.. we are the same species

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:28 AM

yes i think, it is the most widly known now so it will have to work.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:29 AM

but get rid of the stupid rules.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:29 AM

i don't think any language could fully convey our ideas.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:29 AM

it should be spelled how it sounds no silent k and rules like i before e except after c.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:29 AM

Ryan.. maths.. and science

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:29 AM

to truly understand each other would require a mental conection.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:29 AM

best language there is.. scientific aproach

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:30 AM

but not all ideas can be expressed in scietific terms

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:30 AM

they can be proven

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:30 AM

exactly. why? cuz i have to put my past experiences upto now into an idea and that idea has a picture even a feeling, get that into words LOL.

Daniel LugoMar 26, 2014, 12:30 AM

afk sec

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:31 AM

then another person without all my past experience has to try and desipher it.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:31 AM

yes kelly, if you could come inside my head and see the picture of the world as i think it should be, i think you would agree with me.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:31 AM

LOL i know a 63 year old woman who would agree.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:31 AM

words are but a ghost, the idea is the true thing

Doug NewberryMar 26, 2014, 12:32 AM

The system is a lot easier to fix than you might imagine. Simply change who owns the process of money and credit creation. Money can be the servant of humanity rather than its master. But first you must understand what "money" is.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:32 AM

heheheh we create our own reality?

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:32 AM

lol, changing who controls it would merely create new peope at the top

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:33 AM

so true doug, IF we could use it without the curruption but, i think technology can put us past it.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:33 AM

kelly, yes

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:33 AM

its cost alot of money to make money you know. cuz out the middle man.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:33 AM

cut

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:34 AM

I have ideas, I'm all full of creativity of ideas.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:35 AM

but they are not my own really, they are all i know about with others ideas as well.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:35 AM

i have been thinking about this a lot the last year or two.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:35 AM

for 2 years for me

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:35 AM

what have you been thinking about?

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:35 AM

i have been trying to come up with a system, that wouldn't fall apart, and would be fair for all

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:36 AM

have you looked at the venus project?

Doug NewberryMar 26, 2014, 12:36 AM

Every policy discussion comes down to money... we need some... lets spend some... but people dont even know what money is... or where it comes from... or who owns that process... and how we are all paying the price for it. Inequality is born of this

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:36 AM

exactly.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:36 AM

inequality

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:37 AM

equalitytrust.org.uk Some charts about inequality.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:37 AM

the major issue i've been having is that everybody needs to have certain comforts, but there has to be motivation for people to work to better society, otherwise we will come to a stand still as a society.

Doug NewberryMar 26, 2014, 12:37 AM

Public banking is the answer...

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:38 AM

whether they are bettering it through technological advances, or serving as teachers doctrs, firefighters, etc, doesn't matter.

Doug NewberryMar 26, 2014, 12:39 AM

Seriously... this system could be fixed in 15 minutes of effective policy making... the fact that is has not happened says a lot.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:39 AM

ryan, when they do not have to go to work, when they needed food and water, it was there, a shelter for bad weather, they would be motivated to do what their heart desires.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:39 AM

but the vast majority of people, will not do this if they don't gain anything from it

Kevin PottsMar 26, 2014, 12:39 AM

Awesome Tawk Everyone! It's great to see so many enlightened people all gathered in the same space, there's hope for humanity yet! =)

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:39 AM

its already begon,

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:39 AM

begun.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:40 AM

its subtle. its not this BAM huge thing.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:40 AM

ok i gotta go guys, food is ready and make a hho generator LOL.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:41 AM

yes, the transition will be long and hard, and people won't even notice it at first.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:41 AM

the one we built so far was my friends.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:41 AM

We gotta take care of the basics

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:41 AM

food water air. ok later.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:41 AM

later

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:41 AM

add me on facebook if ya want, i put many kewl things down, use it for good.

kelly mackinMar 26, 2014, 12:41 AM

later.

Ryan BraninMar 26, 2014, 12:42 AM

well, i'm signing off too. was good talking to you guys, you've given me a lot to think on.

varto gumushianMar 26, 2014, 8:22 AM

Use the system against them

Julie MMar 26, 2014, 8:19 PM

we should pass initiatives that allow us to criminalize representatives not following the will of the people. Corporate and business interests should come second and elected officials who do otherwise should be indicted. And face real jail time.

Barbara LefevreMar 27, 2014, 4:49 AM

Julie M., Once upon a time in America, it was a criminal act, punishable by prison time and a painful financial penalty, for a politician to collude with corporate sponsors regarding anything political, legal or having to do with elections.

Barbara LefevreMar 27, 2014, 4:49 AM

The “we want our county back” folks might want to revisit these parts of our vainglorious past.