Jordan Birnbaum

Host

Fixing The American Education System

Jan 8, 2014·46 visitors

Seth Hochman

Cohost

Stage· 239 messages

Jan 8, 2014

Based on a long career in education (running a test-prep, tutoring and college application company), our own Seth Hochman has learned a thing or two. And he's ready to explain his ideas on how to fix the system. Based on past experience, his ideas are probably correct.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

Mr. Hochman, I presume?

Seth Hochman · 2:05 AM

It's good to be here JB...Happy New Year!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

Good evening, sir! A happy 2014 to you and all!

Seth Hochman · 2:05 AM

Thank You

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

So I think our topic tonight is almost impossibly complex.

Seth Hochman · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“Hi Jordan and Seth! And Happy New Year to you two too! :)”

Seth Hochman · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Oooh, this is exciting!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

Of course, we have to discuss and work through all the various issues...

Seth Hochman · 2:06 AM

Hello Rebecca, Rachel and everyone in the Tawk

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:07 AM

but just in thinking about this topic, I am amazed at the number of factors that matter.

Seth Hochman · 2:07 AM

It's not as complex as many people think

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:07 AM

OK - well I have a lot of questions, but before we get into it, I think you have a fairly unique perspective on the subject through your career. can you give us a brief description?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“Hello and Sawasdee Pee Mai to everyone!”

Seth Hochman · 2:08 AM

Unfortunately it has been made more complex than it should be...politicians and others who shouldn't be so involved, are way too involved...too many cooks spoil the soup

Seth Hochman · 2:08 AM

Just to tell you a little about what I do...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:08 AM

(don't know what that means, jonathonfall, but I like it...)

Seth Hochman · 2:09 AM

I run a test prep, tutoring and college application company...

Seth Hochman · 2:09 AM

so I've seen all sides of education

Seth Hochman · 2:09 AM

We do a lot of test prep for SAT/ACT, GRE, GMAT and the Florida exams

Seth Hochman · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“when it comes to our children's education and knowledge, little is more important. I feel like those politicians forget that and it becomes "a game" :/”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

so one issue that I think is very prevalent is the use of standardized tests

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

have we gone too far?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

are we only teaching them how to take that test, not how to prepare for life?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“ugh.. the GRE.. was... painful. :p”

Seth Hochman · 2:11 AM

Yes...it works out well for me, but at the risk of hurting my own business, I will say that kids today are way over-tested

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

That is one of many reasons why I love you Seth - truth comes first

Seth Hochman · 2:11 AM

The whole focus by politicians, non-educators, was to get accountability in teaching. In there mind that meant testing kids

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“It means happy new year Jordan.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

(see -my faith was rewarded)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

i still have nightmare flashbacks from the ACT

Seth Hochman · 2:12 AM

Not to mention a lot of politicians have given out testing contracts to their friends, Bush's own brother wrote tests for the State of Florida

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“wouldn't hands on application of the knowledge we acquire be MORE useful than rote memorization?”

Seth Hochman · 2:12 AM

Testing isn't teaching! And sadly when the state tests are done most teachers kick their legs up and call it a day, because that is what they are evaluated on

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

so is this mainly a legacy of Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policies? Or was it heading in this direction for a long time before?

Seth Hochman · 2:14 AM

In Finland, which was rated #1 in education there is almost no testing and about a third of the homework that American kids receive, so more homework and more testing is not the answer

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

Boy, I bert that information is inconvenient to a lot of financial interests...

Seth Hochman · 2:14 AM

It is and we must remember Ted Kennedy went along with that...so both sides of the aisle were complicit

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

bet

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“When addressing primary education, I believe diet and meditation are key variables to successful ed.”

Seth Hochman · 2:15 AM

Yes it is JB...even the SAT/ACT

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

well, I think that is a much more holistic perspective of education, and one I can readily get behind.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“ugh the diet at schools is horrid too Johnathonfall :/”

Seth Hochman · 2:15 AM

technically non-profits, receive the highest salaries of any non-profit company in America

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

i get primary education and prison confused sometimes

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

lmao rick

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

but am a little scared by how well that comparison works...

Seth Hochman · 2:16 AM

And the new system, common core, was written by the SAT maker, college Board and some textbook publishers

Seth Hochman · 2:17 AM

In America Rick, unfortunately, they aren't that different at times :)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

So this addressees an interesting problem - the intersection of public and private interests and goals.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

often conflicting

Seth Hochman · 2:17 AM

So we can see why the common core is promoting new textbook sales and on the common core tests, on some of them, it even has the McMillan logo

Seth Hochman · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“so there was no bias in the decision to increase testing, is what you are saying Seth? ;)”

Seth Hochman · 2:18 AM

Oh, there was a bias Rachel, and there is a big interest in getting rid of public schools and public school teachers

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

so let's take on the role of nutrition in school

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“Way too much emphasis today on testing instead of the food they are consuming and a bit of mandatory meditation every school morning.”

Seth Hochman · 2:19 AM

Alright

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

shouldn't school be the source of nutrition for all children regardless of circumstance?

Seth Hochman · 2:20 AM

I agree but there is a certain side that doesn't want healthy food "forced" on them and wants to have the option to eat whatever they want, i.e. junk

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:20 AM

I mean, as a society, should we use this gigantic platform to address more than arithmetic and Steinbeck?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“Are there vegetarian school lunch programs in America and what percentage if so?”

Seth Hochman · 2:21 AM

Not to mention there isn't much budgeted for public school food, hence the pre-packaged, lousy food that rivals prison food.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

I mean, shouldn't we teach and train children to be healthy? To lower future medical costs, for one thing?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“my nephew's school is pretty good about being able to give him gluten free foods.. but they are very progressive considering most other schools around here also delve into GMOs and you have a whole other set of awful!”

Seth Hochman · 2:21 AM

Although the first lady did make a big effort to get healthier meals in schools...there was a big push back by people saying they didn't want to be "forced" to eat certain foods

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“but the worst is the poor kids who are going to school starving and not able to get any help from the system that should be helping them :/”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

yes, the absurdity of the pushback on healthy eating was truly disturbing and depressing

Seth Hochman · 2:22 AM

I agree, and it is definitely an issue although a smaller one considering the major issues with public education

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

vegetarian pack your own lunches

Seth Hochman · 2:23 AM

And what happens Rachel is when kids are given the choice of junk food or a side of broccoli, the junk food is going to win out

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“what's wrong with having the option to choose healthy tho?”

Seth Hochman · 2:23 AM

The bottom line is it shouldn't be a choice

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:24 AM

OK - so let's talk about the intersection of public and private finance around public education.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:24 AM

From a simplistic point of view, one would think that

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:24 AM

the education system is funded through taxes

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:24 AM

and that every school gets roughly the same amount of money per student.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

Now that isn't the case, huh?

Seth Hochman · 2:25 AM

Right, part of NCLB, no child left behind meant that better performing schools would get more money.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

so their solution for struggling schools was LESS resources?

Seth Hochman · 2:26 AM

Which is ridiculous when you think about it...it would be kind of like saying the Boston Red Sox won the World Series and the Yankees had a great year so let's give them the best rookies.

Seth Hochman · 2:26 AM

That is what happened with the schools. It was kind of like punishing lesser performing schools who already have enough problems to deal with

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

the seeming stupidity is staggering.

Seth Hochman · 2:27 AM

If anything lets give more resources to the lesser performing schools so they can turn thing around

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“maybe they should have made sure each school was on a level playing field before even considering this”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

far too logical, Rach

Seth Hochman · 2:27 AM

and after all they need it most.

Seth Hochman · 2:28 AM

I always though lesser performing schools should be able to pay teachers a lot more money to attract talented teachers

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“damn! logic... gets me every time! ;)”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

(get used to it, kid)

Seth Hochman · 2:28 AM

But usually the most talented teachers get cushy jobs in the nicest suburbs

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

so why do some schools outperform others so vastly?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

Is it resources? Family involvement?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

higher salaries for teachers/

Seth Hochman · 2:29 AM

Good question, usually you will find those top-performing schools in the wealthiest areas.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

lack of care

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

so does that mean they get more money?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

or that the families are ore involved?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

or both?

Seth Hochman · 2:30 AM

There is a strong link between income level and school performance...one of the biggest arguments against the SAT

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“socio-economics HAVE to come into play here”

Seth Hochman · 2:30 AM

In wealthier areas many times there is only one working parent

Seth Hochman · 2:31 AM

meaning the other one can stay home and be heavily involved in their kid's education

Seth Hochman · 2:31 AM

Exactly Rachel...I've seen it myself over and over

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

That has to play a huge role. but does the school actually get more money on top of that?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

my mom was bad at algebra, she wasn't going to help

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

lol

Seth Hochman · 2:31 AM

But to be honest with you, give me a heavily involved parent and I'll show you a kid succeeding

Seth Hochman · 2:32 AM

Parent involvement is far and away the #1 predictor of academic successs

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

I feel like THAT fact needs to become really ingrained in us.

Seth Hochman · 2:32 AM

Funny Rick, but many of the parents I work with don't know much about Alg. or Trig but they do know how to open a can of whoop-ass on their kids when they're out of line

Seth Hochman · 2:33 AM

Did you see the movie Waiting for Superman?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:33 AM

It's on my Netflix list, tho

Seth Hochman · 2:33 AM

It was kind of a propaganda movie in my view...

Seth Hochman · 2:33 AM

blaming the teachers, the unions, and the public school system in general for failing kids, cities, and our society in general

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

speaking of whoop ass

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

no, i almost saw Wigstock and I saw GLOW Glamorous Ladies of Wrestling earlier today

Seth Hochman · 2:34 AM

In it the director Guggenheim tries to make charter schools out to be the great savior, or Superman, saving children from the "mean" public schools

Seth Hochman · 2:35 AM

In truth, charter schools perform no better than public schools, despite all their advantages...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

Well, I think that any time someone tries to paint a direct line or simple solution when it comes to matters such as these, they're kind of full of it.

Seth Hochman · 2:35 AM

of being able to kick underperformers out, greater budgets, and greater control over discipline

Seth Hochman · 2:36 AM

There is this myth created mainly by charter schools and their funders that union, public school teachers and public schools in general are 100% to blame for the failure

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“if parents weren't forced to work 3-4 jobs they would have time and energy to create and sustain a better home environment.. :/”

Seth Hochman · 2:37 AM

But in truth there are less union teachers today than there were in 1980 when the US education system was rated #1, not to mention unions have less power

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

exactly, rachel - there are so many contributing factors that there is no simple solution

Seth Hochman · 2:38 AM

The teachers only see students for at most 2.5hrs a week, usually in only one class, so how much can they do in that time, with 25 other students as well?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

So let's shift to teachers here

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

I've known of private schools (SCAD) where teachers were threatened to be fired if they tried to Unionize

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“why are teachers unions losing their power? wasn't that the whole point of their creation? My mother is a professor and she was the union president for a while and it nearly broke her spirit :(”

Seth Hochman · 2:39 AM

The charter schools are often for-profit and have principals making over half a million dollars per year, with execs making even more....

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

and the teachers?

Seth Hochman · 2:39 AM

many of them have been involved in scandals, indicted on embezzlement, etc.

Seth Hochman · 2:40 AM

Are you asking about the difference with charter school teachers?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

for the moment, yes

Seth Hochman · 2:41 AM

Yes they're typically non-union. However, like I said, charters, even with all their great advantages, do no better than public schools

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

do they get better teachers? offer better salaries?

Seth Hochman · 2:41 AM

They also drain a lot of funds away from the public schools

Seth Hochman · 2:41 AM

Some cases they can get better salaries...mostly they make about the same or less, since they're non-union

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“I am all about unions, but I have to say the teachers unions have way overreached when they protect teachers who really aren't teaching anymore for various reasons and keep them in the classroom which is not helping the students.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

I agree Johnathon

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

I support unions in theory, but they seem to become as corrupt as the forces they organized to oppose...

Seth Hochman · 2:42 AM

In a few cities, like NY, the unions were keeping around some dead wood ...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I agree Johnathonfall but there are also a lot of teachers who feel trapped by all the red tape and politics and feel like they can't do what they were truly hired to do. but you are right there are plenty of AWFUL and CRUEL teachers out there”

Seth Hochman · 2:43 AM

but in most cases the unions have been weakened and most of the school systems either have no unions or unions with no power

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

Ever since I was a little kid, I remember everyone in seeming universal agreement that teachers were far too underpaid.

Seth Hochman · 2:44 AM

I wish teachers could get paid differently...some of their contracts don't allow that

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:44 AM

and that tons of people would have become teachers if it offered a living wage (metaphorically speaking)

Seth Hochman · 2:44 AM

Keep in mind, that non-union teachers typically underperform union teachers, but let's get to the heart of the issue

Seth Hochman · 2:44 AM

Very true JB...

Seth Hochman · 2:45 AM

JB, you and I are products of a public school system...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:45 AM

so why don't we pay teachers more?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:45 AM

the principles take all the money

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:45 AM

bastards!

Seth Hochman · 2:45 AM

when I was younger, I didn't blame the teacher if I was getting bad grades, I didn't say it was all the school's fault as many parents and politicians do today

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Good question Jordan!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

right on, Rich!

Seth Hochman · 2:46 AM

It was my fault, and we've to stop scapegoating teachers, union, and public schools for a lack of parenting, discipline and parental involvement!

Seth Hochman · 2:47 AM

I agree teachers should be paid about 80% on salary and the remaining 20% based on a basket of performance measurements

Seth Hochman · 2:47 AM

And teachers teaching harder subjects, calc, physics, should get more money to attract more talent

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:48 AM

How about we throw some psychological training into the mix?

Seth Hochman · 2:48 AM

I have a friend who teaches first grade at a public school and she hasn't had a raise in four years

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:48 AM

I mean, shouldn't teachers understand more child psychology? Wouldn't that be a good thing for all of us?

Seth Hochman · 2:48 AM

And yes Rick, there is way too much admin, and they are way overpaid. Get rid of some of them and pay teachers better

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“Psychology in the house! woop woop! :)”

Seth Hochman · 2:49 AM

And not every school needs state of the art football stadiums, gyms, theaters, etc. Spend that money more wisely

Seth Hochman · 2:49 AM

I think it's treating more of the symptoms than the problem JB

Seth Hochman · 2:50 AM

As Rachel said before if you've parents working three jobs, there is no parent involvement, and the kid is more than likely to fail, and end up on govt services...

Seth Hochman · 2:51 AM

or worse yet in jail, at the cost of $47,000/yr to the taxpayer

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

I guess I feel like teaching should be as much about socializing as transferring knowledge...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

In my idealized classroom environment

Seth Hochman · 2:51 AM

In wealthy areas are almost equal to Europe and the best countries...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

a lot of subconscious issues would get resolved for students while in school.

Seth Hochman · 2:51 AM

it's in the poorer areas that our schools are just terrible

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

well that economic model isn't surprising.

Seth Hochman · 2:52 AM

If parents in those areas had a higher min wage, better salary they could work one job and be home with their kids...

Seth Hochman · 2:53 AM

making sure they're studying, not doing drugs, or committing crimes

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

so what about the length of the school day and homework? do these need to be adjusted?

Seth Hochman · 2:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“as the more prisons get privatized.. the more we play right into their hands that way.. the child doesn't get the education they need to survive, put on the streets, end up in jail and the blame the victim cycle begins all over again :/”

Seth Hochman · 2:53 AM

It would just be smart for society....

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

I mean, wouldn't it be great if a parent could drop the kid at school on the way to work, and pick him / her up on the way home from work?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

remove daycare from the equation?

Seth Hochman · 2:54 AM

When these parents work two and three jobs and still can't afford rent, we the taxpayers have to foot the bill for rent, food, healthcare, etc...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

another boot on the neck of most parents...

Seth Hochman · 2:54 AM

since they're working so many jobs that means no one is home to watch the kids and this often leads to drug use, crime, gangs, etc. and the downward spiral continues

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

do you think we should use the schools as an antidote to broken homes?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

offer shelter, psych counseling, etc.

Seth Hochman · 2:55 AM

Pay them a little more, we'll have less crime, better students, people will have better jobs and a more competitive workforce...not to mention give me the taxpayer a break,..

Seth Hochman · 2:56 AM

so I don't have to pay Colonel Sanders' employees because he is too stingy to do so

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

do you think the schools could be used as a tool like I described?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

almost as a broken home rehab center?

Seth Hochman · 2:57 AM

JB that would be tough to do. Some of these parents don't come home to 11 or 12 at night--no school will stay open that late

Seth Hochman · 2:57 AM

It would help a little bit but not fix the main problem of not having parents home to play their role

Seth Hochman · 2:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“guys I got a duck out of this becausemy talk to text feature is screwed up everything I'm trying to say? and when I try to type I cannot even see what I'm typing”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

You gotta start somewhere...

Seth Hochman · 2:58 AM

I agree it would help but in 1980 when our schools were #1 we had a much higher min wage

Seth Hochman · 2:58 AM

with greater income equality

Seth Hochman · 2:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“And what about the schools that have 3 or 4 assistant principals…is it really necessary for there to be more than one assistant principal?”

Seth Hochman · 2:58 AM

Totally agree Jon

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

I can't believe the 80's are the good ol' days...

Seth Hochman · 2:59 AM

For starters: less testing, less administration...

Seth Hochman · 2:59 AM

more making school enjoyable, a place where kids want to be, more making school applicable to real life

Seth Hochman · 3:00 AM

More parent involvement

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

Yes - you're describing intrinsic motivation, which is always the most powerful. You do the things you WANT to do.

Seth Hochman · 3:00 AM

More balanced education, do you realize some kids have no PE these days, no art, no music...

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

that's gross and unfair and bad for our future

Seth Hochman · 3:00 AM

no wonder they're bored to tears

Seth Hochman · 3:01 AM

And follow successful models: Finland, Korea, Singapore

Seth Hochman · 3:01 AM

Yes the US is a great country but if other countries are doing things better why not adopt their methods

Seth Hochman · 3:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I have to go too.. but this was a great tawk! Thanks guys! :)”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

All right, my friend. I think it might be time to wrap. But we never got to curriculum, which is the MOST interesting part.

Seth Hochman · 3:02 AM

Buenos noches Rachel

Seth Hochman · 3:02 AM

We have three mins left

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

So maybe our next Tawk should be about the curriculum of the future?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

and we should probably explore the role of the federal and state governments in this mess...

Seth Hochman · 3:03 AM

That would be a good chat...

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

4 word answer for fixing the education system: Hire Sir Ken Robinson

Seth Hochman · 3:03 AM

One last question

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

and I should learn who the hell is Sir Ken Robinson

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

my last question: how important is class size?

Seth Hochman · 3:04 AM

Just going to ask that myself

Seth Hochman · 3:04 AM

famous British educator involved with Ted

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:05 AM

ah - that sounds like a GREAT idea!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:05 AM

Sir Ken Robinson is an expert on education and you've probably seen his TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

Seth Hochman · 3:05 AM

A topic for another Tawk Smartass

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:05 AM

OK - our next Tawk will touch on curriculum, state vs. fed, and Sir Ken Robinson.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

i probably didn't

Seth Hochman · 3:06 AM

And let's not forget colleges

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

Rick - you need to go on a Ted Talk binge

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

oh yeah - college...

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

that little thing...

Seth Hochman · 3:06 AM

lol

Seth Hochman · 3:07 AM

And why colleges cost so damn much in America

Seth Hochman · 3:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“I am afraid that schools and too many prisons share a commonality now: profit #1”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:07 AM

no shit. thanks seth -it was really fun!

Seth Hochman · 3:07 AM

A good Tawk JB!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:07 AM

thanks forum - as usual, a very cool collection of cats.

Seth Hochman · 3:07 AM

Privatization rearing its head Jonathan

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:08 AM

later cha'll

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:08 AM

gnite. Thanks for reminding me I'm not alone.

Seth Hochman · 3:08 AM

Goodnight everyone!

Forum · 59

Forum· 59 comments

46 visitors

Tawkers AdminJan 6, 2014, 3:10 AM

Welcome to the forum, where audience members can enter questions and comments about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't be shy, participating in the forum is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerJan 6, 2014, 3:54 PM★ Spotlighted

Oooh, this is exciting!

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

Hi Jordan and Seth! And Happy New Year to you two too! :)

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

Hello and Sawasdee Pee Mai to everyone!

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

when it comes to our children's education and knowledge, little is more important. I feel like those politicians forget that and it becomes "a game" :/

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

ugh.. the GRE.. was... painful. :p

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:11 AM★ Spotlighted

It means happy new year Jordan.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:12 AM★ Spotlighted

wouldn't hands on application of the knowledge we acquire be MORE useful than rote memorization?

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:14 AM

I think it takes things out of the teacher's hands too.. I can't imagine how disheartening it would be to a teacher these days that actually WANTS to teach and wants their students to learn :/

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

When addressing primary education, I believe diet and meditation are key variables to successful ed.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:15 AM★ Spotlighted

ugh the diet at schools is horrid too Johnathonfall :/

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

Way too much emphasis today on testing instead of the food they are consuming and a bit of mandatory meditation every school morning.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:16 AM

@Rick at least they aren't making our kids eat

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:16 AM

the loaf" yet?? :p

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

so there was no bias in the decision to increase testing, is what you are saying Seth? ;)

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:17 AM

@rick "the loaf" is this horrid thing they make prisoners eat now... it has been called "cruel and unusual punishment" by prisoners

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

Are there vegetarian school lunch programs in America and what percentage if so?

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:19 AM

this is so interesting, considering when you delve into why public school systems were invented in the first place - to act as a cheap babysitter so that the parent's could go to work in the new industrial age. I guess if it doesn't benefit those in

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:19 AM

... power it isn't needed

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:21 AM★ Spotlighted

my nephew's school is pretty good about being able to give him gluten free foods.. but they are very progressive considering most other schools around here also delve into GMOs and you have a whole other set of awful!

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

but the worst is the poor kids who are going to school starving and not able to get any help from the system that should be helping them :/

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

what's wrong with having the option to choose healthy tho?

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:24 AM

yes health should always win out.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:25 AM

that's what I (a product of the public school system) was taught

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:26 AM

what an awful way to pit people against each other!

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:27 AM★ Spotlighted

maybe they should have made sure each school was on a level playing field before even considering this

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:27 AM★ Spotlighted

damn! logic... gets me every time! ;)

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

socio-economics HAVE to come into play here

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:31 AM

very sad that we punish the child of parents who do nothing but try and survive :/

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:33 AM

One thing that needs to happen for sure (especially in these times) is be more aware and tuned-in to the home environment of the child.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:34 AM

@Rick lol! do they throw chairs at each other? wrestling lol

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:34 AM

Too many kids are coming from homes that aren't happy or very nutritious.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:34 AM★ Spotlighted

if parents weren't forced to work 3-4 jobs they would have time and energy to create and sustain a better home environment.. :/

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:36 AM

what about waldorf education? My cousin is a waldorf teacher and absolutely loves it!

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:38 AM

There should also exist less stringent requirements for a substitute teacher.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

why are teachers unions losing their power? wasn't that the whole point of their creation? My mother is a professor and she was the union president for a while and it nearly broke her spirit :(

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:41 AM★ Spotlighted

I am all about unions, but I have to say the teachers unions have way overreached when they protect teachers who really aren't teaching anymore for various reasons and keep them in the classroom which is not helping the students.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:42 AM★ Spotlighted

I agree Johnathonfall but there are also a lot of teachers who feel trapped by all the red tape and politics and feel like they can't do what they were truly hired to do. but you are right there are plenty of AWFUL and CRUEL teachers out there

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:43 AM

my sister had a teacher that would put the "bad" children in a literal box around their desk where they were then mocked and ridiculed by the teacher and the students.. that's when my mom decided to homeschool her

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:45 AM

think of all the AMAZING people our children could be learning from, if only we gave them what they were worth, sad. :(

Rich HagbergJan 8, 2014, 2:45 AM★ Spotlighted

Good question Jordan!

Rich HagbergJan 8, 2014, 2:46 AM

easier to point fingers then take responsibility

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:46 AM

@Rick I wrote an "expose" on my public school and almost got suspended for stating that he was only interested in keeping students in their seats because we were nothing more than a $ sign to him.. he was PISSED lol

Rich HagbergJan 8, 2014, 2:47 AM

I'm chatting mobile I'm learning how to use my tablet....

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:48 AM

@Rick - yeah luckily I was under 18 at the time. it was published in the local paper. but I still stand for what I said he didn't care whether we were getting educated, for him it was the money

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:48 AM★ Spotlighted

Psychology in the house! woop woop! :)

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:50 AM

I am surprised more teachers don't need a psychology degree or background to even get the job.. but our system tends to ignore the best science has to offer .. :p

Rich HagbergJan 8, 2014, 2:50 AM

lack of parent involvement is huge these days s working 2 more jobs

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:52 AM★ Spotlighted

as the more prisons get privatized.. the more we play right into their hands that way.. the child doesn't get the education they need to survive, put on the streets, end up in jail and the blame the victim cycle begins all over again :/

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:53 AM

yes that's what we need Seth! to give them a fighting chance, both the child and the parents.

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:54 AM

and then again the poorest get blames by the other taxpayers.. it isn't their fault either!

Rich HagbergJan 8, 2014, 2:55 AM

and now there forCing everybody to buy healthcare they cannot afford

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:55 AM

@Rich - that is so beyond wrong. I have people I know who are LITERALLY wasting away and can't afford to get the care they need and now that?!? BS

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:56 AM

If Rebecca were here she would tell you her story how school was her sanctuary.. which is what it should be for a child, if needed

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 2:57 AM★ Spotlighted

And what about the schools that have 3 or 4 assistant principals…is it really necessary for there to be more than one assistant principal?

Rich HagbergJan 8, 2014, 2:57 AM★ Spotlighted

guys I got a duck out of this becausemy talk to text feature is screwed up everything I'm trying to say? and when I try to type I cannot even see what I'm typing

Rich HagbergJan 8, 2014, 2:57 AM

rachel I agree with you you miss understanding what I mean

Rachel McDonnellJan 8, 2014, 2:58 AM★ Spotlighted

I have to go too.. but this was a great tawk! Thanks guys! :)

Johnathonfall thethirdJan 8, 2014, 3:06 AM★ Spotlighted

I am afraid that schools and too many prisons share a commonality now: profit #1