Rebecca Westbrook Toker

Host

Free What?

Apr 2, 2014·33 visitors

Jordan Birnbaum

Cohost

Stage· 409 messages

Apr 2, 2014

Jordan Birnbaum says he can make a case that Free Will is an illusion. I don't know if I like that...

Jordan Birnbaum · 11:59 PM

See, you only THINK you chose to be here....

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:00 AM

showtime!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“PTSD stops free will.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:00 AM

Hellooooo, Guys and Dolls!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:00 AM

hi guys - sort I'm back

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:01 AM

How's everybody on this lovely evening???

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:01 AM

hi everyone! so great to see you!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:01 AM

I, for one, am glad you all chose to be here! :P

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Hi Jordan! Hi Rebecca!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:01 AM

hmm - I'm having a bit of technical trouble

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:01 AM

brb

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:01 AM

Me, too! I have to refresh after every comment i type...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:02 AM

me too

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:02 AM

uh oh

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:02 AM

it must be the site.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:02 AM

I can't see anything

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:02 AM

man - I have SOOOOOO much to say...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:02 AM

yeah, my stuff is not updating correctly eaither

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:02 AM

And, man - this episode is going to score big points for Jordan's argument! :D

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:03 AM

keep trying?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:03 AM

hold on ima call someone

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:03 AM

Jordan, i just wanna start by saying:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:03 AM

I sure like you!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:03 AM

I don't want to argue with you.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:04 AM

And i don't want to spoil our tuesday night Date.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:04 AM

So, I want to hear and carefully consider what you have to say.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:04 AM

Good point, Rick. I'll try it!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:04 AM

keep the faith -

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:05 AM

wonder if it'll work on firefox

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:05 AM

no anger here!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:05 AM

wait - it's working!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:05 AM

sweeeeeeet

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:05 AM

is itm working for everyone else?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:06 AM

I'm full on functional

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:06 AM

Dude, it also works on Explorer!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:06 AM

multi-platformed!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:06 AM

haven't heard anyone say that in awhile...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:06 AM

yeah it works on firefox

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“myabe”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:06 AM

I had been using Chrome, but went to safari

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:06 AM

all right - shall we get started?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:07 AM

Then, for the record, it's not Tawkers, it's Chrome!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“what the heck do i use, anyway?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:07 AM

well, i am already over here - not moving

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:07 AM

And, yes, let's proceed!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:07 AM

Start with definitions, if you would, please, Sir.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rodrigo A. Bartels

“Hello!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“hello rodrigo”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:07 AM

use an etch a sketch and point it towards teh window

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:07 AM

OK. So this is definitely NOT an argument, because I realize that I'm pretty far out on a limb here.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“"If we wanted to, we could shut these machines down."”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:08 AM

Nope. No argument, no debate.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:08 AM

but I can explain why free will is an illusion from 2 different points of view: space/time, and psychology. where shall we start

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:08 AM

Definitions.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:08 AM

How do you define Free Will?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:08 AM

I define free will as having control overt the choices you make, big and little

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:09 AM

over

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:09 AM

lol becca!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:09 AM

i feel the same way! same with you Rick!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:09 AM

LOL. You guys are funny!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I believe you! Now I ddon't have to take responsibility for my actions.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:09 AM

free will = the little voice in your head you tell to shut up

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:09 AM

so psychology is probably a little more accessible, so let's start there

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:09 AM

vaya, pues.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:10 AM

Now, does anyone know about the Millgram experiments with electric shocks?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:10 AM

because the point nit makes is where we will begin

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:10 AM

Nope.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:10 AM

Do tell!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:10 AM

In the 1950's, this guy Milgram brought people into a room, and explained that he was testing the impact of punishment on performance

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:11 AM

one at a time, btw

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:11 AM

Oh! Oh!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:11 AM

some people are kinky, rick

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:11 AM

Is this the one where subjects had to punish others for wrong answers?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:11 AM

we're starting with electric shock is never the first thing you want to hear at a gathering

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:12 AM

now, he told his subjects that he as going to ask someone a question who was in another room, but was miked so they could hear him and he could hear them

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:12 AM

So he told people that every time the person in the other room got a question wrong, the subject would prtess a button that would shock the person in the other room.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Rick! HAHAHAHAHA!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:12 AM

Yes!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:12 AM

with every wrong answer, the shock would increase

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:13 AM

so he had this guy pretending to get shocked in the other room, and he was giving his answers on a mic

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:13 AM

but as he got more and more questions wrong, the guy in the other room was getting bigger and bigger shocks, and started screaming like hell

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:14 AM

he was pleading to stop shocking him

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:14 AM

i think after the third shock i would walk in the other room and punch the idiot answering the question wrong in the face

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:14 AM

now the subject in the pom kept looking at Milgram to say, "Shouldn't we stop this?" And all he answered was "The experiment must continue."

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:15 AM

Well, more than 65% of the participants went to the point where the person in the other room stopped screaming, and had presumably lost consciousness or died

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:15 AM

Ba-dum! Ching!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:16 AM

as long as Milgram stood there in a lab coat with a clipboard saying "The experiment must continue" literally drove people to actions they believed were killing someone in the other room

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:16 AM

Freddie Kruger

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“how shocking”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:16 AM

so what does this all mean?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:16 AM

I mean, we know what happened in Germany in the 40s...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:16 AM

that the 65% of participants are deviant human beings who don't mind killing?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:16 AM

they burned the professor , and that is how nightmare on elm street was born

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“HOLY CRAP!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:17 AM

or that external factors had such a huge psychological impact on them that for all intents and purposes, they stopped trusting their own judgment and conscience

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“people are heartless bast*rds”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:17 AM

No - the point is that they are NOT bad people

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:17 AM

they are just like you and me

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:18 AM

it's arrogant for us to all assume that we would have the strength of character to resist

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:18 AM

do you really think that every Nazi started out as an awful human being?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:18 AM

yeah, all it takes is one time being held hostage in teh woods at gunpont to realize how heartless people can be

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Can be Robin, there is that potential just is there the potential for goodness”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“It's a choice”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:18 AM

well - do you guys think that these people were making an authentic choice? or do you think they were overwhelmed by the external factors and the emotional consequences?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:19 AM

No - this is a particularly self-aware group

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:19 AM

so our success rate at existence might be higher than the population at large

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“a grudging choice”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I'm with you Jordan. It takes a special individual to stray from the herd”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:20 AM

not existence - resistance

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:20 AM

succès rate at resistance - sorry

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“I agree Jordan.... it could be arrogance. You won't know what you'd do until your in it if unprepared. If you have pre-situational values in place, it could have a different outcome than submission.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:20 AM

me too

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:21 AM

it is a nice ohrase, Rich. :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:21 AM

*phrase

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“presituational values. i like that.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:21 AM

so let's start from this scientific fact that external behaviors affect our emotional states, our perceptions, our choices

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:21 AM

I'm sorry - external factors affect all those things

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:21 AM

So let's go down the rabbit hole a bit more

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:22 AM

because eventually we're going to try to determine where reactions to situational factors end, and our authentic decision making begins

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i love rabbit holes”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:22 AM

can any of you think of a time in our life when you made a bad choice, you knew you were making a bad choice, you didn't really want to make the bad choice, but you made it anyway?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“It is a possibility...perhaps offering other outcomes.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:23 AM

For more info on Milgram and the Badness (or not) of people: http://www.radiolab.org/story/180092-the-bad-show/

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:23 AM

Becca, i totally believe taht!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:23 AM

great point, Becca! that's exactly where we're heading!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Rabbit Hole here we go.. WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:23 AM

and I totally agree too

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“You can train yourself to be better at controlling how external factors affect your emotions/decide how you react to things to an extent.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:24 AM

However, the decision to work on yourself, to challenge yourself, the reflect - do you think that was impacted by your childhood? Impacted by your experiences? your parents? your genetics?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:24 AM

lol

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:24 AM

well said

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:25 AM

so - I would say that everyone here is a very self aware person

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:25 AM

Indeed.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“sort of jordan... i did want to make the bad choice.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“If you are not fighting against yourself inside, you free yourself to act more freely”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Kindred spirits”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:26 AM

But the decision is...yours. Ultimately.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:26 AM

Right?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:26 AM

but here's the thing about self-awareness - whether or not you get to the point where you can even make a choice to work on yourself, even be aware of the need for it, is totally dependent on about a million different factors, all of which are totall

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes, impacted by all those things, jordan. i call them triggers”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:26 AM

I mean, modern psychology is pretty big on locus of control and that YOU ultimately own your decisions...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:26 AM

I don't see how we can identify a point where we begin and our reactions to external factors ends

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“So, we don't have free will because our decisions are impacted by everything else that exists.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:27 AM

Ah, Jordan. NOW I see where you're going.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:27 AM

And I can jive with that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:27 AM

even the brain I was born into, my height, my weight, my teeth - this all have massive impact on how I see the world

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:27 AM

agreed again, Becca - it's an infinite tapestry

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Rebecca, your decisions affect everyone else too”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:28 AM

Robin - I think I remember us talking about our spiritual energy being identical until we enter our bodies / lives, etc.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“definitely jordan”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:29 AM

yes rich, but even your ability to make that choice isn't really your ability. It's an infinite combination of genetic and external factors that you are reacting to.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“unless you free yourself from that construct”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:29 AM

I totally respect your choices

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:29 AM

and I love you for them

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:29 AM

but just because we ended up in a similar place doesn't mean we chose to be here.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:29 AM

it means our combinations of things led us both to the same place

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:29 AM

so how crazy does all this sound?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:30 AM

Dude!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:30 AM

sweet

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:30 AM

I often get PISSED when I find myself in the same place as someone else who didn't try very hard.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“not at all”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:30 AM

lol!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:30 AM

Don't judge my snippiness here,

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Agreed on many fronts' there are things we cannot control”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:30 AM

but i' tried REALLY hard to not be a statistic,

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:31 AM

I find it very uncomfortable to think I'm not of my choices

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:31 AM

and I'm still a statistic. ;P

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:31 AM

not in control of y choices

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I like it in the fact that you cannot separate yourself from everything else. But we do have the ability to make decisions within the limitations of being who we are if that makes any sense lol”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:31 AM

But, isn't that also comforting, jordan?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:31 AM

I want to take credit for all the decision I've made in my life of which I am proud

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:32 AM

Because, we all make LOTS of choices that we shouldn't be proud of...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:32 AM

if we had to own all of those, well, we'd probably just end it all early.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:32 AM

but how can I? would I be kind if my mother acted differently? would I be self aware if my father beat me?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ya, i dojn't like that either”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Ride the wave, bro! haha”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:32 AM

Oooh, Rich and Becca! Good stuff!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i want to be responsible for what i do. good or bad.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Becca! You hit it!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“a warrior hopes for the best outcome, but plans for the possibilities if it is not the best outcome”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:33 AM

I guess I feel like I could ay to anyone, "You know, if I was born into your body, to your parents, to your exact life experiences, I would have done the exact same thing. So get over yourself!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:33 AM

Well, maybe.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:33 AM

that's the only thing that gives me hope, Rich

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:33 AM

because, there is still the choice...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“We are all connected!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:34 AM

ROFL, Rick!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“the interconnectedness of al and everything becomes more apparent all the time... after going down a lot of rabbit holes. = D”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“As much as we try, we cannot seperate from the collective whole...we are connected to EVERYTHING”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:34 AM

Becca - this makes it possible for me to forgive anyone and everyone for anything

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:34 AM

Hmmm, Becca, you're probably right...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:34 AM

"we are the world"

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Jordan, I think its harder to think that way about someone who you think has made the wrong decisions..”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:35 AM

If I was born to German parents in the 1920's, wouldn't I be a Nazii?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:35 AM

so how can I judge them?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:35 AM

In this respect, it makes people seem like pretty self-righteous, judgey SOBs as a whole, then...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:35 AM

I mean, I'm not comfortable with any of this

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:35 AM

It is very uncomfortable.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:35 AM

But, i think that's good.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:35 AM

I want to judge people. And I do. It's fun!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:36 AM

Maybe we need to stop thinking along such harsh lines.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“You cant.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:36 AM

hell yes. and we all already are. even by participating in a discussion like this.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:36 AM

And apply more of a "sliding" view, if you will.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“but I will argue we should all strive to be the person who stands up.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:36 AM

I think I said this last week, but...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:36 AM

That is maybe the hardest, Robin.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“no matter how hard i try to be generous or magnanimous, it is REALLY hard to forgive those who make life so hard for the rest of us.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:37 AM

When you watch the documentary about a zebra, the lion is a monster. When you watch a documentary about a lion, the zebra is food.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:37 AM

Exactly.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:37 AM

Thanks Rich!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“I like that you ask hard questions Jordan.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:38 AM

so does anyone have some more thoughts on the psych angle? because we still have space time ahead of us, and that is a REAL mindfuck

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:38 AM

So, I guess it takes expanding your worldview to include yourself as the epicenter but also understand that you are limited and small and understand very little.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“at least they are different species”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“True, but in forgiving others, usually the person that needs to be forgiven the most is ourselves.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“from each other”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:38 AM

Because, if you aren't anchored in the center of your universe, you're adrift.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:38 AM

And that takes us right into Space-time!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:38 AM

it's kind of impossible to do, Rebecca, but that's exactly what we have to do

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Victimology 101”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:39 AM

one sec

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Time is man made”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:39 AM

OK sorry

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:39 AM

(Rich and i are working up to a time tawk)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:40 AM

yes, indeedy!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:40 AM

Buckle in!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Time...here we go Rebecca!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“an illusion we created for ourselves, a distraction”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:40 AM

I guarantee my presence. Quick side note. We gotta get Robin, Becca, Rick back on the main stage.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“is this going to be like a roller coaster ride?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:40 AM

so here we go

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:40 AM

(I agree, JB!)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:41 AM

time is relative

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:41 AM

like a stinky step uncle

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:41 AM

albert einstein theorized that time slows down for an object in motion, and moves more quickly for an object that is standing still

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:41 AM

it is related to gravity, space and time

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:41 AM

but the important point to note, as Rich said earlier, is that it theorized, and later proved, that time is not constant

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:42 AM

exactly

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:42 AM

let me explain the experiment that proved it - it makes it easier to understand

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:42 AM

if you sit and watch the talk the day would go by slower than if you spent it moving around

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:42 AM

a French woman in the 50s (forgot her name) took two digital clocks that went to the 100 trillionth of a second

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:42 AM

the clocks were perfectly synchronized

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“we created time to measure”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:43 AM

and she brought them to an air field. She placed one of the clocks on an airplane, and placed the other on the ground.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:44 AM

the plane circled the airfield for 6 hours. when the plane landed, the clock on it was one hundred trillionth of a second behind the clock that had been on the ground

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:44 AM

einstein was right

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:44 AM

time is not constant

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:44 AM

So that's why Superman spinning around the earth totally fixed everything!!!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:44 AM

totally!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:45 AM

so who's ready for the red pill?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:45 AM

Further, Jordan, time is not constant because we made it up.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:45 AM

yep!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:45 AM

Based on our location in space.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:45 AM

yep!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Rebecca!!! LOL”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“(GULP)”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:46 AM

It's like MATH...a great way to expalin large truths to humans that can't really speak in a manguage expansive enough to encompass it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:46 AM

is the red pill cinnamon?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“sorry, but i still don't get it. = P”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“GPS”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:46 AM

But MATH does not equal TRUTH.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:46 AM

MATH is just s description.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:46 AM

robin - if you went into a spaceship that traveled at the speed of light for one year, you would age exactly one year. However, when you returned to Earth it would be 100 years later than when you left. Does that make sense?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:46 AM

Of something we can't quantify any other way.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:46 AM

Yup!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:47 AM

math is a language that is expressed through music among other things

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“well that does explain it! i am no good at math”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Isn't Math a language?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:47 AM

2 + 2 = 4 no debating that truth

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“well, no, jordan. sorry”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:47 AM

@ Robin - Time is just a way to describe a phenomenon that we only partially understand.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:47 AM

Time is, essentailly, a language.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:48 AM

It's OK - it's pretty complex, and I'm not the best teacher. But do you trust us that time is not constant. That it can slow down or speed up? That a second can constitute a different amount of time based on the speed of your travel?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:48 AM

here we go

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:48 AM

planets collapse upon themselves creating black holes

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:48 AM

love you guys!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“how does it relate to free will?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:49 AM

now black holes have so much gravity that nothing can escape them - not even light.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“you dont have to understand why, just believe us its true ;) LOL”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:49 AM

A second on another planet would probably be different than a second here. Time is relative to where you are. And THE WHOLE THING is based on your PERCEPTION of time, not on anything fixed in reality. Time IS flux.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“don't waster yer time trying anymore. i'll never git it”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:49 AM

way to fix it dude!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Jordan, could we dare say math is a scientific language to explain our perception of reality?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yep”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:49 AM

it's totally fixed! <3 Blake!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“Sorry for the tech trouble this evening folks... Our community is growing faster than we can keep up with sometimes :) thank you all for your patience and continued discussions! Tawk On!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:50 AM

so - rather than try to explain the scientific rationale that I don't even understand, let's get conceptual

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“cool ian. thanks.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i mean blake”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Blake I didnt have any trouble”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:51 AM

If time is not constant, if there is somewhere you could go that in an instant could take you 100 years into the future...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:51 AM

it means that we're perceiving time in a linear fashion, but it doesn't exist as one.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:52 AM

so my final point is, everything that is ever going to happen has already happened on a different timeline.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:52 AM

It's like we're on a ride at Disneyland

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:52 AM

Booom! Head explosion!!!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“ya my brain hurts”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“big picture”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:52 AM

Shhhhh! Don't tell me the ending!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:52 AM

just because we can't see what is at the end of the ride doesn't mean it isn't there

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:52 AM

lolololol Rebecca!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“omg!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:53 AM

so, what do we think?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:53 AM

Awww, not leftovers AGAIN!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“The universe is comfortable with containing all life's paradoxes”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Ka-Boom!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:53 AM

leftover reruns is all we have left

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:53 AM

lol

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:53 AM

Well, so you've pushed me just past the edge of my reorganization of my concept of time.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:53 AM

listen, I can't really stand behind this

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:54 AM

because my ability to comprehend the actual mechanics is too limited

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i think i'm gonna need some "time" to find an argument against this.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:54 AM

but damn if I don't feel intuitively certain, and if the argument I presented above doesn't make perfect sense to me

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:54 AM

I'm still back at "Time is made up and not something we should judge others in relation to"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:55 AM

But, probably in like a week i get around to accepting your theory...

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“NOW you tell us.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“great way to convince us hahaha”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:55 AM

Which has already happened like 100 years ago and will happen again in 5 minutes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:55 AM

"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." -Voltaire

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“gotta find that rabbit hole called "time is linear"”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:56 AM

That's the one we were getting to!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:56 AM

me too!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:56 AM

because certainty is absurd!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:56 AM

Well, fuck!

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“your free will is limited to the space-time you perceive.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Ka-Boom! (goes the time clock management!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:56 AM

deep

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:56 AM

If that's TRUE...then WHY do we struggle so much with it?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i have to doubt your asertion”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:56 AM

I don't know. I'll call God.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:57 AM

The Tao says that the glass is already broken.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:57 AM

what does that mean?

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:57 AM

if all time exists, then the energy i exerted in cleaning the house does not matter because the house is already dirty

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:57 AM

You're not speaking to God. So that's out.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:57 AM

I know - bad joke

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:57 AM

That is probably the greatest takeaway from tho Tawk we could create

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:58 AM

The glass is already broken means that you can let go of fear taht the glass that you cherish will GET broken. Just enjoy it. because it's already gone.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“No sense it getting all worked up about things”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:58 AM

there's certainly some space time to that idea!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:58 AM

And it wasn't a bad joke, JB - I'm just very dry sometimes. :P

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:58 AM

and yet, without fear, we never would have survived our early evolution.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“fear of the unknown is a waste of imagination!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:59 AM

But WITH fear, we can't move FORWARD.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:59 AM

Life is the hardest job there is.

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“its still in my head. the loveley broken glass.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:59 AM

all we can do is strive to become as close to our authentic selves as we can.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:59 AM

So I guess I'd better just sign up for that Hip Hop class.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“it is paralyzing”

Jordan Birnbaum · 12:59 AM

and I think that our authentic selves are who we want to be internally

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:00 AM

Maybe who we ARE internally.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

moonwalking with fear

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:00 AM

It seems to only get muddled in the acting on it part.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

I don't mean like a rock star, but I mean if you want to be decent, I think that's your authentic self, even if you sometimes get overwhelmed and lose the ability to demonstrate it

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

Rich - that sounds like "free what, volume II"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

;)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“The ride at Disneyland...the trick is we need to let go of the need of knowing what happends next. Letting go, being Zero... is key. And I can explain that with math lol”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“math? hoow, rich?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

guys, this might be my favorite Tawk yet

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

Word.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

2 x 2 = 2 + 2

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

This has been excellent.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

you are all so friggin special. I'm so happy we found each other!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Good cuz I sure as hell never know what happens next, lol”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

I really wasn't sure where you were going, but I'm glad i came along!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“part 2, i'll vote for that.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

Robin - I can't wait! Frankly, I'm betting on you!!!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“give me time to come up with my argument”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

for me as well - there is nothing better than imagining existence

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“oh me too!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

Just stand up, Rick - you'll go faster!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“now THIS is truly the SPICE of life!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

Becca - consciousness is the subject of your first Tawk.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

i'm not going far, i don't have a car

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

Shoot! the only problem with doing these at night is the resulting brain whirl that precludes sleep!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“what is consciousness?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

all right guys - believe it or not I have to go work on an I/O Psych project

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“if we cant make decisions?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

no way, not after all the fried chicken i just ate - standing may kill me

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“I'm working on it Robin...”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“"free will" if you will”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“now you've done it, becca.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:04 AM

@ Rick - just wiggle your fingers, then. ;P

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

but I'm probably going to reach out to everyone this weekend with a short survey about conflict and harmony in the workplace

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:04 AM

Jordan, this was LOVELY!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

Robin - that'll put me in a good mood for a week.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

a'ight - good to see ya Jordan

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“thanks for existing, jordan”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

wiggles

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

Thanks for sharing what's been niggling in your brain's understory!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

Well, Rebecca, none of this exists without you.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

I'll fill out any survey you send!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

cool

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

all right kids! Next week?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

Jordan, it might also be true that I imagined all of it. Or you did.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

Yes, next week!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

That's PROBABLY true, Rebecca

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

gnite everyone. and good game, good game, good game, good game, good game

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

Well, Becca, we love it when you get here. XO

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“try and stop us!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

g'night Rebecca, Robin, Rich, Becca

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

dito

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

Y'all are just great!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

lol

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I am unreliable due to satellite internet”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

Good night, all!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

PALS

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“may the farce be with you, becca”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I enjoy it! thanks”

Forum · 158

Forum· 158 comments

33 visitors

Tawkers AdminMar 31, 2014, 1:15 AM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Tawkers AdminMar 31, 2014, 1:24 AM

Johnathonfall thethirdMar 31, 2014, 9:06 AM★ Spotlighted

PTSD stops free will.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:00 AM

Here we go!!!!!!!!!!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:00 AM

YES!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Hi Jordan! Hi Rebecca!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:00 AM

Hi Rick!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:01 AM

hi rebecca and jordan

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:01 AM

hey rick

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:02 AM

I really like your profile pic Robin...

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:02 AM

thank you rich = D

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:02 AM

Funny...i did too Had to refresh page

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:03 AM

no fair... tawkers is broken = [

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:03 AM

Bring it Jordan! =)

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:05 AM

so now i have to download firefox?

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:05 AM★ Spotlighted

myabe

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:06 AM★ Spotlighted

what the heck do i use, anyway?

Rodrigo A. BartelsApr 2, 2014, 12:06 AM★ Spotlighted

Hello!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:06 AM★ Spotlighted

hello rodrigo

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:07 AM★ Spotlighted

"If we wanted to, we could shut these machines down."

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:07 AM

hmmm, but chrome is what i use. unless there is google non chrome

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:07 AM

It's Chrome

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:07 AM

glad i didnt miss anything but technical difficulties lol

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:07 AM

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:09 AM★ Spotlighted

I believe you! Now I ddon't have to take responsibility for my actions.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:10 AM

nope

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:10 AM

yes

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:11 AM★ Spotlighted

Rick! HAHAHAHAHA!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:12 AM

That was a good one

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:12 AM

yeah, i remember it now, jordan.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:13 AM

right Rebecca.... and through conditioning exerted control (reward/punishment)

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:13 AM

Rick, you're killing me!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:14 AM

DISOBEY!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:14 AM

; ]

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:15 AM★ Spotlighted

how shocking

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:15 AM★ Spotlighted

HOLY CRAP!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:16 AM

Robin....(shaking head, smiling)

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:16 AM★ Spotlighted

people are heartless bast*rds

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:17 AM★ Spotlighted

Can be Robin, there is that potential just is there the potential for goodness

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:17 AM★ Spotlighted

It's a choice

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:18 AM

yes a choice. i hope i would choose otherwise.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:19 AM★ Spotlighted

a grudging choice

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:19 AM★ Spotlighted

I'm with you Jordan. It takes a special individual to stray from the herd

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:19 AM★ Spotlighted

I agree Jordan.... it could be arrogance. You won't know what you'd do until your in it if unprepared. If you have pre-situational values in place, it could have a different outcome than submission.

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:19 AM

Reminds me of an essay question from HS

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:20 AM★ Spotlighted

presituational values. i like that.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:22 AM★ Spotlighted

i love rabbit holes

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:22 AM★ Spotlighted

It is a possibility...perhaps offering other outcomes.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:22 AM★ Spotlighted

Rabbit Hole here we go.. WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:23 AM★ Spotlighted

You can train yourself to be better at controlling how external factors affect your emotions/decide how you react to things to an extent.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:23 AM

Yes.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:23 AM

Thanks for the link!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:23 AM★ Spotlighted

sort of jordan... i did want to make the bad choice.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:24 AM★ Spotlighted

If you are not fighting against yourself inside, you free yourself to act more freely

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:25 AM★ Spotlighted

Kindred spirits

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:25 AM★ Spotlighted

yes, impacted by all those things, jordan. i call them triggers

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:26 AM★ Spotlighted

yes

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:26 AM★ Spotlighted

So, we don't have free will because our decisions are impacted by everything else that exists.

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:27 AM★ Spotlighted

Rebecca, your decisions affect everyone else too

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:27 AM★ Spotlighted

definitely jordan

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:28 AM★ Spotlighted

unless you free yourself from that construct

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:28 AM

well, i don't remember, jordan. sounds good tho. = D

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:29 AM★ Spotlighted

not at all

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:30 AM★ Spotlighted

Agreed on many fronts' there are things we cannot control

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:30 AM★ Spotlighted

I like it in the fact that you cannot separate yourself from everything else. But we do have the ability to make decisions within the limitations of being who we are if that makes any sense lol

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:31 AM★ Spotlighted

ya, i dojn't like that either

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:31 AM★ Spotlighted

Ride the wave, bro! haha

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:32 AM★ Spotlighted

i want to be responsible for what i do. good or bad.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:32 AM★ Spotlighted

a warrior hopes for the best outcome, but plans for the possibilities if it is not the best outcome

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:32 AM★ Spotlighted

Becca! You hit it!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:32 AM★ Spotlighted

We are all connected!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:33 AM★ Spotlighted

the interconnectedness of al and everything becomes more apparent all the time... after going down a lot of rabbit holes. = D

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:33 AM★ Spotlighted

As much as we try, we cannot seperate from the collective whole...we are connected to EVERYTHING

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:34 AM★ Spotlighted

Jordan, I think its harder to think that way about someone who you think has made the wrong decisions..

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:35 AM★ Spotlighted

You cant.

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:35 AM★ Spotlighted

but I will argue we should all strive to be the person who stands up.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:36 AM★ Spotlighted

no matter how hard i try to be generous or magnanimous, it is REALLY hard to forgive those who make life so hard for the rest of us.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:36 AM★ Spotlighted

I like that you ask hard questions Jordan.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:37 AM★ Spotlighted

at least they are different species

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:37 AM★ Spotlighted

from each other

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:37 AM★ Spotlighted

True, but in forgiving others, usually the person that needs to be forgiven the most is ourselves.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:38 AM★ Spotlighted

Victimology 101

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:38 AM

oh, lets have it jordan.

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:38 AM★ Spotlighted

Time is man made

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:39 AM★ Spotlighted

Time...here we go Rebecca!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:39 AM★ Spotlighted

an illusion we created for ourselves, a distraction

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:39 AM★ Spotlighted

is this going to be like a roller coaster ride?

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:40 AM

= D

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:42 AM★ Spotlighted

we created time to measure

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:44 AM★ Spotlighted

Rebecca!!! LOL

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:45 AM★ Spotlighted

(GULP)

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:45 AM

So why do we let time run us?

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:45 AM★ Spotlighted

sorry, but i still don't get it. = P

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:45 AM★ Spotlighted

GPS

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:46 AM★ Spotlighted

well that does explain it! i am no good at math

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:46 AM★ Spotlighted

Isn't Math a language?

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:47 AM★ Spotlighted

well, no, jordan. sorry

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:47 AM★ Spotlighted

don't waster yer time trying anymore. i'll never git it

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:47 AM★ Spotlighted

you dont have to understand why, just believe us its true ;) LOL

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:48 AM★ Spotlighted

how does it relate to free will?

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:48 AM

now its really getting crazy!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:48 AM

i'll try jordan

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:49 AM★ Spotlighted

Jordan, could we dare say math is a scientific language to explain our perception of reality?

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:49 AM★ Spotlighted

yep

Blake IanApr 2, 2014, 12:49 AM

Sorry for the tech trouble this evening folks... Our community is growing faster than we can keep up with sometimes :) thank you all for your patience and continued discussions! Tawk On!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:49 AM★ Spotlighted

cool ian. thanks.

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:49 AM★ Spotlighted

Blake I didnt have any trouble

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:50 AM★ Spotlighted

i mean blake

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:50 AM

thats cuz you were late becca

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:50 AM

yeeeeeep

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:50 AM

lets do

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:50 AM★ Spotlighted

big picture

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:51 AM★ Spotlighted

ya my brain hurts

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:52 AM★ Spotlighted

omg!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:52 AM★ Spotlighted

The universe is comfortable with containing all life's paradoxes

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:52 AM★ Spotlighted

Ka-Boom!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:53 AM★ Spotlighted

i think i'm gonna need some "time" to find an argument against this.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:54 AM★ Spotlighted

NOW you tell us.

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:54 AM★ Spotlighted

great way to convince us hahaha

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:55 AM★ Spotlighted

gotta find that rabbit hole called "time is linear"

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:55 AM★ Spotlighted

Ka-Boom! (goes the time clock management!

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:56 AM★ Spotlighted

your free will is limited to the space-time you perceive.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:56 AM★ Spotlighted

i have to doubt your asertion

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:56 AM

you got it rick!

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 12:57 AM★ Spotlighted

No sense it getting all worked up about things

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 12:58 AM★ Spotlighted

fear of the unknown is a waste of imagination!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:58 AM★ Spotlighted

its still in my head. the loveley broken glass.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 12:59 AM★ Spotlighted

it is paralyzing

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:00 AM

in spite of all the horror in the world, eh?

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 1:00 AM★ Spotlighted

The ride at Disneyland...the trick is we need to let go of the need of knowing what happends next. Letting go, being Zero... is key. And I can explain that with math lol

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:00 AM★ Spotlighted

math? hoow, rich?

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 1:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Good cuz I sure as hell never know what happens next, lol

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:01 AM★ Spotlighted

part 2, i'll vote for that.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:01 AM★ Spotlighted

give me time to come up with my argument

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:02 AM★ Spotlighted

oh me too!!

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:02 AM★ Spotlighted

now THIS is truly the SPICE of life!

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 1:02 AM★ Spotlighted

what is consciousness?

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 1:03 AM★ Spotlighted

if we cant make decisions?

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 1:03 AM★ Spotlighted

"free will" if you will

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 1:03 AM★ Spotlighted

I'm working on it Robin...

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:03 AM★ Spotlighted

now you've done it, becca.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:04 AM★ Spotlighted

thanks for existing, jordan

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:04 AM

have a good night everyone.

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 1:04 AM

external factors are making you

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:04 AM

sweet, jordan

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:05 AM

= D

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:05 AM★ Spotlighted

try and stop us!

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 1:05 AM★ Spotlighted

I am unreliable due to satellite internet

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:06 AM

g'nite rick =]

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:06 AM★ Spotlighted

may the farce be with you, becca

Becca GambsApr 2, 2014, 1:06 AM★ Spotlighted

I enjoy it! thanks

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:07 AM

g'nite, g'dreams

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:07 AM

pales for sure.

Robin MaynardApr 2, 2014, 1:07 AM

pals

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 1:09 AM

Goodnight!

Rich HagbergApr 2, 2014, 1:09 AM

Great talk everyone!

Annelyse LindleyJun 14, 2014, 6:52 PM

What are y'all doing

Annelyse LindleyJun 14, 2014, 10:03 PM

Nvvhxx