KK

How Much Sex Do Women Want?

Dec 10, 2013

LT
Stage· 149 messages
Dec 10, 2013

Women get hit from all sides. We're "supposed" to be sexual, but not too sexual. Then if we don't have a high enough drive, we have “Female Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder.” So, what's the deal?nLeah Torres, an OB/Gyn who's amazing on issues of sexual health at her blog and on Twitter, is joining me to discuss the bogus notion that there is a true "normal" for female sexual desire. Check out her blog at http://leahtorres.com/female-sexuality/ and get in on the discussion!

KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin

“Welcome to the Forum! To get involved, click "Who's Here" and then FOLLOW people.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin

“Once 25 people gather in the audience, a comment needs at least one LIKE to become visible to the two Hosts and anyone not following them. So LIKE the comments you want everyone to see!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:30 PM

Hi, everyone!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:30 PM

Hi, Dr. Torres! Thanks for joining me -- us! -- today. Actually, since we usually chat on Twitter, I've never had to ask -- do you prefer Leah or Dr. Torres?
LT

Leah Torres · 10:31 PM

"Leah" is fine, I'm not too formal. =) Glad to be here. I was just about to address our first question.
LT

Leah Torres · 10:50 PM

Here we are!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:50 PM

Hooray!!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:50 PM

We're back!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:51 PM

Sometimes technology is as reliable as the female sex drive! <bah dump>
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:51 PM

Great! So, first…if you're new to Tawkers, Dr. Torresnand I will see comments that get a thumbs-up from "listeners" and then we can throw them into the chat. So help each other out by highlighting anything you want us to respond to!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:52 PM

(Sorry, Leah, ha! While we were waiting had I some stuff pre-thought out so we could jump right in.)
LT

Leah Torres · 10:52 PM

I was going to answer Never Notnow's question: we should be much further along. Female sexuality has been the target of pathologization (making something a disease that isn't) throughout history. This has been for a variety of reasons but today...
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Never Notnow

“I'm looking for the historical perspective: is this about the pace we should expect our culture to progress, given the slow crawl of Victorian times, through "hysteria," other women's rights issues, Title IX, etc? Or should we be much further along?”

LT

Leah Torres · 10:53 PM

…we must embrace human sexuality for what it is: natural, individual, and ever-changing.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hey Leah & Katie! :-)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“aand we're back :)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“Yay!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:53 PM

Thanks for waiting it out, everybody.
LT

Leah Torres · 10:53 PM

Greetings all! Glad to be here!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:54 PM

I'm with Leah. Sexuality should be natural and part of life, but we have this Victorian era fascination from afar with it.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:54 PM

While still having it in our faces every day.
LT

Leah Torres · 10:54 PM

We are bombarded daily with "everyone wants sex, a lot of sex, and they want it all the time… everyone is a sex fiend and if you're not, there's something wrong with you." This simply is not the case.
LT

Leah Torres · 10:55 PM

Right, Katie. Everyone has a unique sexuality, and everyone will have different libidos at different times in their lives. For whatever reason, women feel that if they "don't want sex" as much as their partners, there must be something wrong. Not so.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:56 PM

I like the way you explain it in your blog description. You say that issues of sex and sexuality in our culture are "sensitive."
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:56 PM

And you've focused on the conversation surrounding those issues, making it a more normalized (not "normal") discussion.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“My thought; if you are comfortable with your sexual "temperature" than why should you change it?”

LT

Leah Torres · 10:57 PM

Yes, and by "sensitive" I mean that it is a social faux pax to discuss sex and sexuality which I feel stems from Victorian era-type beliefs.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“Is this another case of "Not Normal" or why don't you act like a giant throbbing pelvis all the time?”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:58 PM

I usually give it a Puritanical throw back -- but that's just because I'm a Victorian Lit fan, so I give a little unwarranted love to that era. ;)
LT

Leah Torres · 10:58 PM

Correct. Sexuality is a normal part of being human, just like eating, sleeping, and other daily functions we have. I can talk to my patients about their sex lives because I don't "tee hee" or giggle about it.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:58 PM

That's SO important.
LT

Leah Torres · 10:59 PM

Puritans, Victorians, all of the above. =)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:59 PM

The only radio gig I have where we talk about anything sex related on a regular basis is Hal Sparks's show.
LT

Leah Torres · 10:59 PM

What is normal is what is comfortable for the individual.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:59 PM

We have a running joke that we can do it like grown-ups while so many are affected by the "snicker factor."
KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“what is "normal" anyways?”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 10:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“On the other hand, women are often marginalized in sex talks because when we stop being able to produce babies, our sexuality is supposed to die off, as is right and proper.”

LT

Leah Torres · 10:59 PM

If you are someone who wants sex all the time but your partner doesn't, neither of you are "abnormal," but you may be sexually incompatible.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:00 PM

That snicker factor prevents us from having all kinds of important conversations from appropriate sex ed, to reproductive care to this issue -- what amount of sex women are "supposed" to want.
LT

Leah Torres · 11:00 PM

Along those lines, Jessica, I think that the advent of "Viagra" is quite interesting-- yet the female equivalent doesn't exist.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:01 PM

Is our inability to boil things down to simple incompatibility a function of our taboo on sex before marriage in this culture? We aren't supposed to "test things out
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:01 PM

…and find someone compatible.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“Yes, that's what I was going for, Leah. It's a clear divide in what our society deems more important.”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:02 PM

Which can be a huge mistake, as you know, Katie. If anyone has ever listened to Dan Savage's podcast, you know there are people who have the misfortune of marriage and sexual incompatibility.
LT

Leah Torres · 11:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“should sexuality be taught in schools? if yes,from what age? really young - e.g say 5 or 7 years or maybe wait till they are in their teens...”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:03 PM

I have in fact, I love the Savage Lovecast. ;) It's recommended on my podcast blog page. EVERYONE should go listen. Later.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i guess,if want to try and stop the snicker factor maybe "educating" people when young might help”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“Yes, Lucy! I am a strong advocate for Sex Ed in schools beginning young, Learning body part names can help children be protected from sexual abuse.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:03 PM

Lucy -- is sexuality a part of education where you are in the UK?
LT

Leah Torres · 11:03 PM

Talking about sex with children early helps to normalize it and make them comfortable with the topic. They should be old enough to understand, though, in order for it to be useful. That will pre-empt outside Puritan influences, in theory.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:04 PM

So early on discuss it with age-appropriate topics, but introducing the words and terminology that give them the tools to address issues later?
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@Katie -it was,but i dont know how much of a big thing it is now”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:04 PM

And Jessica makes a good point, too. When it is normalized for children, there is less shame and confusion whilst growing up. More comfort with body/sexuality = healthy
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:05 PM

Absolutely.
LT

Leah Torres · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“people want to give kids as young as 3 years sex=ed...but of course there are lots of people who say thats too young. is it really?”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:05 PM

Would better education reduce the "to your own corners!" of sex ed and the way the various genders are taught to WANT different things?
LT

Leah Torres · 11:06 PM

Lucy, I think that under 5 is too early for the mere fact that until 6 years of age children are unable to understand permanent concepts such as "death." My parents tried to tell me I was adopted before I was ready, then they tried again and it stuck
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“I am a big believer in developmentally appropriate language. Make the facts small enough and digestible.”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:06 PM

I think so, Katie.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:07 PM

Which is how we get to today's specific issue.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:07 PM

"Female Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder"
LT

Leah Torres · 11:07 PM

THere are certainly cultural and social drives around differences in sexuality between men and women, and this under the guise of heterosexual "norms."
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:08 PM

With sex such a taboo subject, but sexuality a required feature of femininity -- we get this strange juxtaposition where women can't "win" and we're judged from every angle.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“where did these norms come from? like you have said,everyone is different and so everyone will have a different level of sex drive”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:08 PM

Much like homosexuality was pathologized in the 1970s (and before?) I think that "female hyposexual desire" is another made-up diagnosis for something we are uncomfortable talking about--and something that can be profitable. =(
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:09 PM

I caught the documentary Orgasm, Inc…the filmmaker definitely take the position that the pharmaceutical industry saw $$$ if they could make a "female Viagra."
LT

Leah Torres · 11:10 PM

These "norms" often come from religious backgrounds--a pattern one can observe among different faiths is repression of women and their sexuality, or sexuality in general.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:10 PM

Definitely. And I think Americans absorb it whether they're in a highly religious home or not. The sexual repression is pretty pervasive.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“everything has to have a name....so people can fit in”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“true leah,but maybe bring it in gradually so its not such a big deal”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:11 PM

@Lucy -- more so that corporations can make a buck. smh
LT

Leah Torres · 11:11 PM

Much agreed, Lucy. The "less of a deal" it is, the better.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“Maybe it's the researcher in me, but I'd be interested in how many women are actually in crisis or are being coerced by their partner or societal norms that say you're not "normal" if you lack sex drive.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:11 PM

Great thought, Jessica. Is this "disorder" created?
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“ack damn those corporations!”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:11 PM

That would be very interesting, Jessica, and in fact my post and this Tawk were inspired by my own patients seeking my help for the same.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:12 PM

You've had patients concerned that their drives weren't "normal?"
LT

Leah Torres · 11:12 PM

Correct, Katie. They have had diminished sex with their partners and, though they may not desire the sex, they want to desire the sex because not desiring sex "isn't normal."
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:13 PM

Does having a pill for doctors who aren't as conscious as you are to prescribe to "fix" the situation perpetuate the problem?
LT

Leah Torres · 11:13 PM

What I have to explain is that if they are happy with their partners and are otherwise satisfied, there is no need to force sex-having in a partnership. There are many approaches to take if there is sexual incompatibility, which is another discussion
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:14 PM

Yes! One I'd love to have, actually. If technical hiccups won't keep you from coming back!. ;)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“There are so many reason for diminished sexual drive. Depression, hormones, crises.”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:15 PM

Doctors love pills… it would perpetuate it, yes, unless docs continue to ask questions and exercise their brains. Some prefer not to, however. Most don't even like discussing sex.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:15 PM

Depression being a HUGE one. Not that I'm speaking from experience. (I'm totally speaking from experience.)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“It seems like we are such a "take a pill" society.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:15 PM

Oh! Super important!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:15 PM

With so many of us signing up for ACA plans and FINALLY having comprehensive plans...
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:16 PM

A lot of us are doctor shopping. What screening questions do we ask to see if our potential GP/OBGYN is sex-positive and open to discussing issues?
LT

Leah Torres · 11:16 PM

Jessica and Katie, you are right on. There is an "immediate satisfaction" to this entire issue (that really shouldn't even be an issue).
LT

Leah Torres · 11:18 PM

Ask if they have LGBT patients. Ask if they prescribe contraception. Ask if they prescribe contraception to unpartnered people. I will try to think of a good, comprehensive screening question, the response of which should tell you what you need 2know
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:18 PM

Which is a good time for me to tell everyone to GO FOLLOW Leah on Twitter because she's an amazing follow. Entertaining and super informative: @LeahNTorres
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:18 PM

Seriously, she will patiently answer questions or direct you to resources.
LT

Leah Torres · 11:19 PM

Thanks, Katie, you're a great one to follow, too!!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:19 PM

Why thank you! I definitely don't have your patience. ;)
LT

Leah Torres · 11:19 PM

@Katie_Speak for all the latest and greatest!
LT

Leah Torres · 11:20 PM

Patience is a very effective educational tool to have in the tool belt. ;)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:20 PM

It sounds [aww! <blushing> ] like you are basically saying this "disorder" is a created name for a thing that doesn't exist.
LT

Leah Torres · 11:20 PM

When my patients come to me with questions about their sex lives, I listen. <-- Doctors who don't listen should not be worth your time, btw.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:21 PM

We're really conditioned to feel like we're wasting doctors' time when we have "lists" -- I always have a list. ;)
LT

Leah Torres · 11:21 PM

That is pretty much exactly what I'm saying, Katie. It may exist, but if it does, it isn't as common as we like to diagnose it, that's for certain. We don't even have an appropriate way to diagnose it!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i have a list too! altho i do try and keep it to about 3 things hehe”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:22 PM

Lists are good if given ahead of time, too. Lists are important. The next patient can wait if the doc is willing to give them as much focused time, too.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:22 PM

Gotcha. It's not that there can't be underlying physical issues or ailments causing lowered sex drive, but who you are and how you express yourself sexually shouldn't be inherently pathological. ;)
LT

Leah Torres · 11:22 PM

If I'm late to my next patient due to lengthy discussion, I apologize, explain, and offer equal attention. People generally appreciate that.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin

“Just want to apologize for the technical difficulties earlier... several people and some computers have been destroyed as punishment.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:23 PM

Does it seem weird to anyone else (by which I mean illogical) that we expect women to apologize for "not wanting enough sex," but never give so much as some side eye to men who want "too much?"
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“aww bless you Tawkers Admin!”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:24 PM

Correct, Katie. I will due a proper physical exam to rule out the physical causes, and I will take a thorough history to rule out other organic causes (medication, depression as was mentioned, etc). Chances are they've had orgasms before.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:24 PM

RIGHT -- which would mean having listened to your patient previously and cared about their sexual health as a part of their overall health.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin

“Thank you all for bearing with us during turbulent times, now please continue tawking about women things...”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:25 PM

So perhaps a doc that isn't willing to include that in the "overall" discussion wouldn't be a keeper?
LT

Leah Torres · 11:25 PM

Yes. So I rule out stuff I can "treat" first, then I discuss next steps. "Do you masturbate?" "Can you have a discussion about sex with your partner?" "Is this bothering you?" etc etc
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

Do you find people are unable to talk about sex when they aren't having it?
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“my doctor,altho a man,was the best doctor i have ever had. i could talk to him about anything. and he would talk to me in plain language that i could understand.”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:26 PM

Right-- avoid doctors who give you a feeling of being judged. I've had a doc like that-- it wasn't fun.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

So helpful, Lucy! Comfort-level is something we should all look for with our healthcare providers.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

Me too!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“Female Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder, Tawker Admin. It's ok. You can say it.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:27 PM

Hahaha -- Jessica, I think I pulled the admin out of a meeting in a panic to fix the site. lol
LT

Leah Torres · 11:27 PM

Ha! Jessica and Tawkers Admin… you crack me up!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“sadly he has moved back to germany. i miss him”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:27 PM

Leah, I really appreciate your advocacy.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“OMG I thought you were talking about the Tawker Admin, Lucy.”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:27 PM

Katie, I really appreciate your support!!!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:28 PM

Doctors don't do a lot of talking publicly about issues surrounding, well anything, but especially sex.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“lol maybe i was Jessica. they are a little scamps you know!”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“Didn't mean to like your sad comment. It's hard to find a good doctor.”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:28 PM

Since many of us aren't getting well-rounded, open, non-shaming sex ed at home or growing up, having public voices with medical background to discuss it with is vital.
LT

Leah Torres · 11:28 PM

I encourage discussion in all realms. I have a spot for it on my website, too.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:29 PM

Yes! Leah's site is a safe space: http://leahtorres.com
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“its ok jessica,no harm done :-)”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“I saw some great comments on your blog. I will be checking in there often!”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:30 PM

Very safe. I wish I could educate all the doctors to be better, but Twitter and leahtorres.com will have to do for now. =)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:30 PM

Just publicly showing people what "doctoring" can look like raises standards. ;)
LT

Leah Torres · 11:30 PM

The more comments, the more responses I can give. I've been trying to incite more discussions as of late. Any help/advice would be appreciated.
LT

Leah Torres · 11:31 PM

Thank you, Jessica, Katie, and Lucy!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:31 PM

Awesome! So, everyone go leave comments. And let us know what you want us to tawk about next in the sex ed/cultural "norms/misinformation genre!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“most welcome Leah”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:32 PM

Hopefully Leah will come back the next time a topic she thinks needs more discussion pops up!
LT

Leah Torres · 11:32 PM

Katie is my Tawker boss, I merely do what she tells me. ;)
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:32 PM

HA! I am no one's boss. That's for sure.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jessica Oliva

“Thanks all! We will be bumping into each other, I'm sure.”

LT

Leah Torres · 11:32 PM

Oh there's always a topic for discussion!!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:33 PM

Awesome. After the holiday busy is over, I'll check back in and see what's on your mind! In the meantime, THANK YOU so much for chatting today!
LT

Leah Torres · 11:33 PM

Take care everyone, this has been a great experience and I hope a little bit helpful! Thank you!!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:33 PM

And if anyone has things come up that they want to hear Leah weigh in on, you can tweet them at either/both of us.
KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“thank you to Leah,Katie and Jessica. i certainly learnt a few things. hope i was helpful too :-) look forward to Tawking again”

KK

Katie Klabusich · 11:34 PM

Thanks, everyone!
KK

Katie Klabusich · 1:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“sorry I missed this one!”