RT

How NOT to Hate Your Kids

Jan 3, 2014

SM
Stage· 427 messages
Jan 3, 2014

How does a creative mom manage to bellydance, make art, run a non-profit, teach AND run a household with two toddlers while keeping everyone happy and sane? Sarah Meyers drops by to tell us how she does it and introduce us to the Love & Logic Institute, which has incredible sane-making tips and philosophies for making parenting about ENJOYING your offspring. Drop by! Tawk it out with us!

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Sarah Meyers · 2:31 AM

hello becky!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:32 AM

John, Love and Logic can help you with relationships with adults too, so I hope you're here participating!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:33 AM

Becky is having some internet issues, but we're going to get started in case she gets on.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:33 AM

if she doesn't suceed, we'll reschedual!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:34 AM

first of all, when we talk about "love and Logic" we're talking about this: http://www.loveandlogic.com/c-79-featured-selections.aspx?gclid=CMrp5Ob74LsCFWRk7AodYi8AUw
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Sarah Meyers · 2:34 AM

here's the home page, that's a less messy link! http://www.loveandlogic.com/
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Sarah Meyers · 2:35 AM

that's ok leland, it's not jsut for parents!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:36 AM

L&L is for anyone who has to deal with other people, which is most people!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

oH! I'm here!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:36 AM

Especially people who have to deal with people who act like children : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

Big thanks to my husband!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:36 AM

HI BECKY!!!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

Thanks for waiting, you guys are great!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

And yes, Love & Logic works with EVERYONE!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:37 AM

I've posted the L&L website.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

Especially adults who act like children.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:37 AM

So people can find it : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

Smart thinking.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:38 AM

most adults act like children, and not well behaved ones at that : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

They have a variety of resources, some of which are free.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:38 AM

but the cool thing is, by using lova and logic, you can disarm them and help them be their better selves when interacting with you!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

Yes, they do. And many children act like children.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

And not so well-behaved, at that. :P
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Sarah Meyers · 2:38 AM

L&L has an e-mail sign up that sends you tips regularly that are great!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

They also have a FB page that posts thoughts pretty frequently and lets you post your current conundrum for commitee comment.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Rickard

“I just don't know. I'm single with no children. I appreciate the invite, but I would only be specuationg, at best.”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Leland Freeman

“I'm with John”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

Okay, so for you guys, we've already said that L&L works for everyone, and here's why:
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

L&L keeps the locus of the problem with the other problem and also places a strong focus on respect and empathy.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

How can you lose in relationships like that?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

I mean, locus of the problem with the other person.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:41 AM

there you go : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

I'm a little flustered. :)
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Sarah Meyers · 2:42 AM

so let's dumb that down a little bit and explain it another way: It helps people see that they have choices and that YOU (the parent, the boss, the person they are talking to) isn't their real problem.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

Yes.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:42 AM

I LOVE it!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:43 AM

I've used it in my classroom (low-income high schoolers), with my family (the adults) with my 4yr old and my (almost) 2yr old.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:43 AM

so far, it's worked with everyone.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

And instead of engaging with an emotional person looking to give someone else their frustration, anger or pain, you empathetically respond but don't accept the problem.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

Yes!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:43 AM

Becky, I made a list of my 4 favorite things that I use with my children.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:44 AM

Would you like me to talk about those, and then you can tell us about what you use in your family?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

I've used it here in the states with a RANGE of students, in Honduras with a range of students (including teachers)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

with autistic children,
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

with my 2-year-old
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

and my husband.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

The better I get at using the principles and tools, the better it works with EVERYONE!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

Oooh, yes. Give us your a-list!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

ok : )
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

1. Choices.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

this works with EVERYONE!!!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

people feel empowered when they are given choices.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

(including husbands!)
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

My 2yr old gets choices like "do you want to wear red pants or black pants?" b/c he's two
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Sarah Meyers · 2:46 AM

but even something as simple as that makes him feel better, like he has control of his life, and he's calmer afterwards.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

YES!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

My son, too!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:46 AM

"do you want to go to the big potty or the little potty?" instead of "YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE POTTY NOW!!!"
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Sarah Meyers · 2:46 AM

I've tried both.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

That will bring him back from the depths of a fit.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:46 AM

the first one works WAY better!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

Yes. Big potty or little potty is very key right now!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:47 AM

so, choices.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

There's a trick there, though
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

YOU MUST GIVE CHOICES THAT YOU'RE OKAY WITH!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

THERE CAN NEVER BE A RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:47 AM

"Do you want to get up and ride with me or would you liek to walk to school? My car leaves at 7:30"
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Sarah Meyers · 2:48 AM

lol, yes, Matt has a problem with giving choices and having a wrong answer.... it's hilarious. he's getting better at that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

I love that. Because it establishes your boundary, but it gives wiggle room within that.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:48 AM

Boundaries. I love them. : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

Yeah - we all do it sometimes.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

Sometimes I forget and give a yes or no when I shouldn't.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

Are you ready to get your clothes on?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

When I should ask which pants he wants.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

And therefore avoid any circumstance where no is an answer.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:49 AM

yeah, cuz naked is better and we all know he's going to say no : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

Because if NO is NOT A CHOICE, then we can just redirect to the sctual choice.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

If anything, he is going to say no.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

That's where we are right now.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:50 AM

Ok so next one is "people who........ don't get to ......."
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

(I do a lot of "planned ignoring" in my day)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Ooooh, nice trick!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:50 AM

we've been doing this one to explain the consequences of behaviors : )
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Sarah Meyers · 2:50 AM

Aria is starting to use it on her brother, which is SO cool!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:50 AM

example: "people who lie about cleaning their rooms don't get to play outside."
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Sarah Meyers · 2:51 AM

"people who hit don't get to jump on the pillows" "people who throw hard toys don't get to play with hard toys" "people who don't show up to work don't get paid for the hours they miss"
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Nice!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:51 AM

this is a non-shaming way to explain what is happening.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Yes!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

I do a twist on that one, which is just, "I don't like ....., so ......" II don't like it when you hit me, so I'm going to put you down."
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Sarah Meyers · 2:51 AM

yes!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:52 AM

it helps high light the behavior wihtout shaming, but also gives a heads up on the consequence.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

But I wonder if I should move to the more third-person and avoid the "you" - though it is an I statement...
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Sarah Meyers · 2:52 AM

Torin droped a glass today and Aria said "people who drop glass in the hallway don't get to play with me!" (which isn't quite right).
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

Your example shows how malleable L&L is, how it can fit anyone of any age group.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:53 AM

so I told her "people who drop glass in the hallway don't get glass cups anymore" and then she understood : )
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Sarah Meyers · 2:53 AM

I think it works however you're comfortable with saying it.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:53 AM

I like saying "people" b/c I have two kids
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Sarah Meyers · 2:53 AM

whn i had one, I said "you".
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Right. I like that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

I find that "I don't like it when..." is really effective with kids, for some reason.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

It's like you're levelling with them or something, and they just understand.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:54 AM

I have to be carefulw ith that one, b/c Aria is REALLY first born, always trying to please.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

Ooooh, yeah.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

I can see that being troublesome.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:55 AM

so if I say "I don't like that" she gets all crazy and starts trying to please me.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:55 AM

and that's not why I want her to do her behaviors.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

Yeah - we make a point of avoiding the "B Word" (Bad).
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Sarah Meyers · 2:56 AM

now let's say, she kicked me. If I say "I don't like it when you kick me" that's a different statement than saying "It's hurts me when you kick me".
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

True.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:56 AM

so I make sure that I express my feelings, but It's not about her pleasing me. It may be different with Torin, I don't knwo yet : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

:)
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Sarah Meyers · 2:57 AM

so, next one:
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Sarah Meyers · 2:57 AM

I like to answer/talk to my children with questions.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:57 AM

L&L can't take credit for this, b/c socrates invented it, but they highlight it well!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

:D
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

Yes!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:57 AM

"Aria, what are you supposed to be doing right now?" instead of "go put on your jammies!"
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Sarah Meyers · 2:58 AM

b/c She knows what's supposed to be happening.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:58 AM

and I don't have to use my brainpower to tell her if she already knows.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:58 AM

how can I get my imaginary kids to behave better?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Yes!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Kids are smart.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:58 AM

put them in a hampster ball!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Hahaha!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:58 AM

They are very smart! and asking them a question makes them think instead of going on defense!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:59 AM

You can use all this with adults too.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

Yes. I can say to my 2-year-old, "It's time for......" and he'll say, "No want to" and I'll say, "I know. And what did I say?"
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Sarah Meyers · 2:59 AM

oo, yeah!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

And he'll repeat what I said and then fall in line!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

So cool!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:00 AM

I love it when they repeate what you already said!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

He got his angst out and was recognized. And then he did what we needed to do. Winning all around.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Me, too!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:00 AM

"I want to perform!" "well, what's our rule for performers?" "You have to be at the previous practice."
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

It does show that they were listening, at least!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:00 AM

done, problem solved.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

Nice.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:01 AM

like parrots?
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Sarah Meyers · 3:01 AM

parrots are very smart, I'm cool with parrots.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

And yes, kids sound lie parrots.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

like
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

And sometimes they repeat things you didn't think they heard, also like parrots.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:01 AM

lol
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

parrots use to get tangled in my cousins hair - it was mess. her hair was curly
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Sarah Meyers · 3:02 AM

which is also cool and sometimes embarassing : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Kids also do that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Kids are pets.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

That's all there is to it.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:02 AM

I had to cut my hair b/c mine got tangled in it......
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Sarah Meyers · 3:02 AM

this is weird. I never knew there were so many similarities!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Hahahaha!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:02 AM

anyway, asking questions works better than making statements.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:02 AM

it teaches them to use thier own brains and problem solve.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Yes.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:03 AM

"You weren't supposed to be out here after bed time, what do you think should happen now?"
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Sometimes, when my kid says "Don't want to," I ask what he wants instead. And sometimes he has a pretty reasonable alternative.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:03 AM

Aria constantly comes up with her own consequences! things I never wold have thought of, that matter to her and make a difference!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:04 AM

"Not the belt!"
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

And it's so much easier than making something up.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:04 AM

exactly RIck! not the belt!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

As we can see by Rick's comment!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:04 AM

kids are way more creative than us.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:04 AM

when i'm thinking "geez, I can't think of anything" she comes up with her own solution!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

That's the nicest thing about L&L. You stay a lot more calm.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

And you do less work.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:05 AM

ok, so the last one I wanted to talk about before we move to you becky
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

They are all about leaving the mental heavy-lifting to the person who created the problem.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:05 AM

is not using "no"
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

SO HARD!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

SO WORTH IT!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:05 AM

I've been working on this one recently and it's very hard for me, but I'm getting a lot better.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:05 AM

now, before we lose everyone, let me explain this.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:05 AM

I don't mean letting my kids run wild while I sit by and allow them to do anything they want.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:06 AM

I eman, literally, don't use the word no, but make sure they know what needs to be done.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

No is inherently inflammatory. You only use it if you want to fight. Just use different words to get the point across.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:06 AM

"Mom, can I have ice cream since you're giving him some?" "Everyone who has already had ice cream, raise your hand". Problem solved.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:06 AM

I did that one today!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

Nice!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

the silent mom stare
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

no look of death?
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Sarah Meyers · 3:07 AM

"Mom, can I go outside right now?" "yes, after you put on shoes and a jacket."
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

Oh, those are also important tools. But they're nonverbal.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:07 AM

I do love the look of death : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

"Yes, and..." is a hard one to learn, but very helpful. Or "First....., then ....."
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Sarah Meyers · 3:07 AM

"can we go out to eat tonight?" "we went to a restruant two days ago, let's wait a while before we go again"
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Sarah Meyers · 3:08 AM

all of these situations could have been answered with a simple "no" and then the aruging and whining would have started.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:08 AM

but it was avoided b/c I didn't say "no".
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

When I had a classful of kids with autism, I had to purge no really quickly. Best thing I ever did!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

No is just a fighting word.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:08 AM

it really is.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

I keep it for emergencies.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

Like, when we're about to touch something hot or fall in a hole.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:09 AM

Which is good, b/c when you bellow "NO" across the house as the kid is leaning in to lick the phone charger, they stop!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

"NO!" when used sparingly still has it's power.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:09 AM

I use it at work whne a kid is jumping on the fancy furniture
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

When people hear no all day, they tune it out.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

but I have learned to get the parents attention and let them dicipline
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Sarah Meyers · 3:10 AM

In that case Rick, I'd say "uh-oh, that's not a trampoline, let's try something different" and re-direct.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:10 AM

re-direct them stright to the parents : )
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Sarah Meyers · 3:10 AM

*straight
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Try, as an experiment, "People who aren't jumping on the furniture are welcome to stay in the store." Just to see what happens...
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

i point and shake my head
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Sarah Meyers · 3:11 AM

the kids don't want to be there to begin with
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Sarah Meyers · 3:11 AM

lol, that's funny.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

That's probably true.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

So there's another trick from L&L:
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Sarah Meyers · 3:11 AM

"I want time off" "tjat
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Sarah Meyers · 3:11 AM

whoa, keyboard went crazy, try that again,.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

It's a "whisper/retreat" strategy.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:12 AM

"I want time off" "that's cool, feel free to fill out the forms." instead of "no"
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Sarah Meyers · 3:12 AM

alrighty, becky, what works for you?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

Lean over the kids shoulder and say in the kid's ear, "Hey, would you mind saving that jumping for the store next door? Thanks." And walk away.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:12 AM

that's hilarious!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:13 AM

the store next door is going to be peeved : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

Yep. But if you give them time to answer, you get excuses or whatever.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

But if you just use "the assumption of compliance" by saying Thanks and walking away, it's over. MOST of them will quit.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

or tell the parents they are about to buy the $5000 couch works too
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

Hahaha.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:14 AM

yay new couch!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Or, ask them to save it for the car ride. ;P
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Then you're sending it right back to the parents.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

LOL
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Sarah Meyers · 3:14 AM

"I'd appreciate it if you'd save that desk tapping for after I go down the hallway, thanks : )"
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Sarah Meyers · 3:14 AM

but you have to say it with a smile, not with a snarky voice.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Yes!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

THAT IS KEY!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:14 AM

that's something we mentioned earlier.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:14 AM

none of this works if you're snarky.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:14 AM

then people get all defiant!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

you have to be empathetic and kind.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

which is hard to fake sometimes, but I believe in you.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

you can do it!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

L&L is founded on empathy. Replace sarcasm with real feeling. "Oh, this is so sad. I don't know how you're going to fix this problem...but you're so smart, you'll come up with something."
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Sarah Meyers · 3:16 AM

"it's so sad that you can't go outside with us. I really hope next time you clean your room so you can play with us!!"
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Sarah Meyers · 3:16 AM

with real feeling and empathy, that really means something to them!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

It's sad that you can't have ice cream. I'm sure tomorrow you'll be able to finish your dinner and have some. :) "
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Sarah Meyers · 3:17 AM

ooo, yeah, that is sad!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:17 AM

I say as i eat my chocolate.....
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Sarah Meyers · 3:17 AM

lol
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

Often, kids need hugs as they're processing this.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:17 AM

that is a hard one for me
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

Without snark, you can eat your ice cream and hug the kid who didn't get any.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:18 AM

I've recently learned tha tI am HARDCORE physical touch on love languages, so I don't like touching people I'm bothered by.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:18 AM

Matt is really good at hugging aria when she's freaking out.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:18 AM

so your live the kid alone inside to mess up the rest of the house
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Sarah Meyers · 3:18 AM

Rick, I did today, yes.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

And that's a caveat, too - all of this is highly subjective. Nothing works for every kid. But it's a principles approach.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:19 AM

and she stayed in her room and cleaned it up.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:19 AM

I checked on her every 5 mintues or less.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

Yes, and if they mess up the house, it's another opportunity to learn about consequences.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

It's another choice to give,
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Sarah Meyers · 3:19 AM

If she's made more of a mess or destroyed the rest of the house, there would have been more imediate consequences.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

and another potential opportunity to solve a problem.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:19 AM

she'd have to clean that up too, do extra chores and pay for anything that is broken.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:20 AM

so I trusted that she'd not make that big of a mistake.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:20 AM

and she didn't : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

And maybe, if she makes a huge mess at 4 while unsupervised and has to devise a strategy for cleaning it up, then she can be trusted at 16 because she'll know that she's going to have to pay for the stuff her friends break when she has an illicit par
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Sarah Meyers · 3:20 AM

you don't leave them alone, but you do need to give them time to make their own choices.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Yes. Lots of thinking time.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:20 AM

hahaha, illicit party : )
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

This is hard for me.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

Because you want to do something NOW.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:21 AM

ninja moms
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Sarah Meyers · 3:21 AM

ninja moms for ninja babies!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

And when other adults are around, they don't understand the method and think you have to jump in.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:21 AM

yes, children take longer to do things : )
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

wa taa!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:21 AM

that is hard.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:22 AM

most of the time, if you phrase the question right, you can include the part :i'm giving you time to solve this" and the adults will back off a little bit.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

I have adopted recently, "Okay, tell me when you're ready."
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Sarah Meyers · 3:22 AM

oo, that's good!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

Because my son always says no. because he is 2.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:22 AM

"are you ready to clean your room and come out for snack?no? ok, tell me when you're ready!"
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Sarah Meyers · 3:22 AM

I like that.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

He doesn't really mean it, but he's building his own identity.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

And I have to give him the chance to correct himself.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:23 AM

"are you ready to come and set up our calnedar so we can all be on the same page? no? ok, well I'm going to play bejewelled, tell me when you're ready!"
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Sarah Meyers · 3:23 AM

hahahaha
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

So I'll say, "Avin, please come put your plates on the shelf"
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Sarah Meyers · 3:23 AM

childhood is one big cleaning spree
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Sarah Meyers · 3:23 AM

we never stop cleaning.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

And he'll say no and do a lap around the house.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

yes!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

And I'll say, "Okay, when you're ready, they're right here."
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

And in a minute he'll coem get them.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

that's cute.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

Meanwhile, I unloaded the rest of the dishwasher and got on with my life instead of fighting with my kid.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

it's so cool!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

because parenting is one big cleaning spree.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

my imaginary kid never does the dishes
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Sarah Meyers · 3:25 AM

maybe you should start with the silverwear.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

Well, if he doesn't at 5, he won't at 25.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:25 AM

it's less scary.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

That's the thing about L&L. There is a focus on lettin gkids make choices and mistakes when they are relatively small and afforadable.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:25 AM

my 2 yr old does the dishes..... so you need to get crackin rick : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

:D
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Sarah Meyers · 3:25 AM

yes! affordable mistakes!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

going outside without a jacket, affordable.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

not eating dinner, affordable.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

refusing to clean your room, affordable.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

running into the parking lot, not affordable, you yell NO and they respond immediatly.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

it's so cool.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

Because having to pay for the iphone you broke or the bike you lost is cheaper than a car you might steal or crash at 16. Learn to take care of your stuff young.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:27 AM

yes!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

Yes, running in the parking lot. A nightmare. So, our choices are holding my hand and walking or being carried. If he lets go, he gets carried. End of story.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:27 AM

I had a student who kept breaking his game boy and his parents kept buying him a new one!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

crap, we have no water...have to go out in the blizzard to get some, a block and a half away
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Sarah Meyers · 3:27 AM

mulitiple times!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:28 AM

That sucks, Rick. Safe travels!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:28 AM

so when he breaks his iphone, are you going to buy him a new one? and his new shoes? and his car?
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Sarah Meyers · 3:28 AM

it's ridiculous.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:28 AM

I know, right??? I went to HS with a kid who crashed his brand new mustang TWICE and got replacements of the same.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:29 AM

DUMB!!!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:29 AM

I would have given him my Neon and taken good care of the mustang : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

Haha!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:29 AM

my first car was an el camino
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Sarah Meyers · 3:29 AM

yesh!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

I also like that there is a focus on NOT YELLING in L&L.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

one of the doors didn't work
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Sarah Meyers · 3:30 AM

yeah. b/c yelling at people doesn't make them do what you want : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

(I had a 1980 Buick Century)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

It doesn't.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

And, like saying No all day, it drains your energy and makes you feel terrible.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:31 AM

it just makes them cry : )
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Sarah Meyers · 3:31 AM

true story!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:31 AM

Lemme go get that orange rhino post, brb.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

So, in order to enjoy your kids and your relationship, it's better to just do something that works.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

Yes! That's a must-read.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

my imaginary kid doesn't cry
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

The he MUST be imaginary.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

Or mute.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:31 AM

i like this lady's sense of humor: http://theorangerhino.com/12-steps-to-stop-yelling-at-your-kid/
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Sarah Meyers · 3:32 AM

her list of alternatives is very funny: http://theorangerhino.com/alternatives-to-yelling/
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:32 AM

L&L gives you express permission, yoo, to beg off, take a personal timeout, until you are calm and can talk about the issue.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:32 AM

yes! I tell aria that!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:33 AM

"I need quiet time, you need quiet time, we'll come back and deal with this in a few minutes."
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:33 AM

I use "bedroom time" as much for me as my kid. When he is soing something that makes my blood pressure rise, I say, "Uh oh. I'm so sorry" and I carry him to the room and close the door. I give him hugs and kisses. And then take a few minutes to colle
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

Or clean up the glass. Or whatever.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:34 AM

b/c me being angry doesn't express empathy.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

take a few minutes to collect myself.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

yeah. Anger gets in the way of everything.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:35 AM

and her crying in her room for a few minutes while I breathe and calm down is WAY better than me yelling at her or hitting her.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

It creates distance, so you have to work harder. Who needs that?
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Sarah Meyers · 3:35 AM

anger will consume your soul!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

I mean, andger creates distance in understanding. It makes you work harder.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:35 AM

rick, I rage like a barbarian.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:35 AM

I need a time out sometimes : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

Bedroom time gives space to that you can talk out of love. SO that's less work, in the end.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:35 AM

yup
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

they use to piss me off at work to make me work harder when i did manual labor
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

That's sort of a dick move.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

I mean, the quality of the work is bound to suffer.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

Not saying anything about YOU, just in general.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

My judgement goes to shit when I am angry.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:37 AM

And so does my kids.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:37 AM

kid's.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:37 AM

it was roadie work, so it was about loading it in and loading it out - anger worked
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

So when he's angry, I bow out. i let him collapse and cry. I put him in his room if he's hitting. Let him get ahold of himself.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:38 AM

anger doesn't make my child clean her room better, or vaccum better, or eat her dinner...... so we try to cool it down first. you should have kicked them. and then torn your shirt off and gotten really large and green.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:39 AM

The hardest part is keeping all of these practices up in public.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:39 AM

That's my weakest point.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:39 AM

really? I do WAY better in public : )
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Sarah Meyers · 3:39 AM

hahhaa
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Sarah Meyers · 3:39 AM

if you were visiting, you better be involved in cooking or cleaning your not just going to sit by
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:39 AM

Because I can feel people judging because I'm not yelling and threatening and "making" my kid behave.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:39 AM

I love that Rick!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:40 AM

see, I feel the other way, b/c they see how quickly everything is diffused, so I'm proud to use L&L in public
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Sarah Meyers · 3:40 AM

b/c I don't have to yell, or bribe and my kids are way better, more quickly, than the ones getting yelled at.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:40 AM

But if Avin isn't able to follow the rules and make good choices, we have to leave. That's it.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

Yeah, it's not every time, just in certain situations. I feel myself tempted to repeat idle threats or whatever.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

Mostly, it feels great to be the only parent in the room who isn't pulling her hair out and making threats and bribes.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:41 AM

yup
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

It makes you look like a jerk to parent conventionally.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:41 AM

true story.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

I am not a jerk. So I try not to parent like one.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:42 AM

I mean, we all slip up. And we all have to learn and evolve as parents and as people, WITH our kids.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:42 AM

I feel so bad for the kids who are being smacked, or yelled at in public. and I feel for the parents too, b/c you know they don't like that, it's just all they know, which is why we're doing this!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:42 AM

This is a tough job.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:42 AM

I feel likeone! L&L is like the Rosetta St
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Sarah Meyers · 3:42 AM

quote of the night!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:43 AM

The ROsetta Stone
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Sarah Meyers · 3:43 AM

I just love that it helps me plan ahead, so when there are problems, I already have a solution
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:43 AM

It gives me secrets. It makes it all make sense!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:43 AM

YES!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:43 AM

it's way easier then just going and hoping that no one dies b the hands of a family memeber : )
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:43 AM

Already having the phrases ready is invaluable.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:44 AM

yup
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:44 AM

It makes it easier to then use it with adults in your life, which can be troublesome.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:44 AM

HA!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:44 AM

yup
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:44 AM

It's hard to feel okay using a "teacher trick" with an adult for me for some reason.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:45 AM

some adults need it.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:45 AM

But it's so reasonable to say, "I will be happy to drive anyone who's in the car by 9:30"
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Sarah Meyers · 3:45 AM

My husband had a boss that actually raised his voice at people in a professional setting to make them do stuff.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:45 AM

My reaction? "I'll talk to you when you can lower your voice and treat me with respect."
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Sarah Meyers · 3:46 AM

that's not a trick, that's boundaries.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:46 AM

Yes.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:46 AM

Yes, yes, yes.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:46 AM

I'll be happy to talk with you when we're both calm.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:46 AM

yup
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Sarah Meyers · 3:46 AM

L&L for adults : )
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:47 AM

They have a book on it - L&& for Lasting Relationships.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:47 AM

Great stuff.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:47 AM

They have a Youtube channel.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:47 AM

They have some free podcasts on itunes.And some you can pay for.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:48 AM

it's all good!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:48 AM

I get most of my books used, but I find them really awesome to have around. Just to remind me whe I get off-track or we get to a new stage.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:48 AM

well, i think that wraps it up for tonight!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:48 AM

I'd encourage people to go to the web site
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:48 AM

They have great stuff for early childhood - because kids change so quickly then that it's hard to keep up!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:48 AM

sign up for the e-mail, it's a great reminder to be on track/stay on track.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:49 AM

the books are great, I love the pre-schooler one that becky got me!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:49 AM

it works with infants as soon as you see that they understand you when you talk to them!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:49 AM

Yes, please do. It's really worthwhile for any person, and kind of relationship. Establishing boundaries and diffusing conflicts are not skills that can ever be wasted!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:50 AM

We should do this again some time, with maybe one of the books and go chapter by chapter, that'd be cool.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:50 AM

That would be! We'll get something worked up. Looking forward to it!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:50 AM

Thank you, Sarah!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:50 AM

boundaires are super helpful, and L&L teaches you how to state them in a clear and empathetic way : )
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:50 AM

And thank you, audience.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:50 AM

Thank you Becky!!!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:50 AM

bye Rick, good luck with your imaginary child and the real ones at work!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:51 AM

I love it that we had people with no kids, that was awesome. Because this is really universal stuff.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:51 AM

true story!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:51 AM

bye!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:51 AM

Indeed! Good luck, everyone, with the adult children in your lives!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:51 AM

Be well. Happy New Year!