Lee Camp

Is Consumerism Consuming Us?

Dec 3, 2013

Eleanor Goldfield
Stage· 291 messages
Dec 3, 2013

It's that time of year! --The time when we put everything else aside so that we can buy and give materialistic plastic craptastic goods! Hooray!!

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:00 PM

Welcome everybody! And welcome to my co-host Eleanor Goldfield!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:00 PM

First question for the audience - Is it morally acceptable to kill someone if you're both reaching for the last Grand Theft Auto Five?
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:00 PM

Hello!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:00 PM

(By the way - you have to vote comments up so that Eleanor and I can see them.)
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

hey Lee and Eleanor!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:00 PM

Ha - if you have to ask, you obviously don't care enough
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

@Lee TOTALLY!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:00 PM

Noticed people talking about buying things 2nd hand
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:01 PM

Interesting thought - is buying 2nd hand or from say, Etsy or a local business bad?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

If you let them live long enoug to reach for the box, then you need to get a lot tougher

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:01 PM

Sorry to derail the GTA5 conversation ;)
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:02 PM

Well, it's not innately bad. But in my opinion we're all trying to fill a very dark hole in our souls that has been created with advertising.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:02 PM

But we do need to buy certain things
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:02 PM

Clothes, food - and I wouldn't be sitting here if it weren't for my computer
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:02 PM

And I saw Lucy ask the crowd whether they buy things from TV, but that's not really the heart of it. Advertising tells us subconsciously that we aren't good enough all fucking day. It's the sum effect of that.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

It's morally acceptable as long as it was the last Grand Theft Auto you were trying to rid the world of

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

grow your own food. tho you end up buying seeds to start

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:03 PM

Good point Melissa
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

grand theft auto is a disc that cost 25 cents to make that they sell you for 60 bucks. You would have to be a fool to want some useless item like that.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:03 PM

There's no way to avoid buying ANYTHING. Lee suggested using a barter system, which is a great idea. But you would need to work up to that system
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:03 PM

From where we're at right now, we have to make choices with the monopoly money we do have
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:04 PM

@Robert - almost everything we buy now costs almost nothing to make because it's done in 3rd world countries with slave labor.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:04 PM

You got monopoly money?! I want some.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

I grow pepper plants from the seeds that I get from peppers

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:04 PM

Where did you get the peppers?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:04 PM

By the way - Is the game Monopoly not the BEST example that capitalism eats itself alive??
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:05 PM

At the end of the day, one person has everything.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:05 PM

Or you flip over the board and throw coke in his face.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:05 PM

Hahaha - very true. Hence the name
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Karen Roylance

the Anti Aging ads really anger me! We are ALL going to get older! I watch my nieces spending WAY too much on "anti aging" creams etc. that they could very well use for their childrens needs.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

and the bank always wins

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Dennis Owen

advertising is there to make you want what you don't need

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

If buy buy from our local mom & pop stores, the world would be a better place. As long as the mom and pop stores sell things made or grown locally. That is the challenge we face today.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:06 PM

Agree with your comment, Lisa
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:06 PM

As for the advertising - how can you avoid feeding into that?
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:06 PM

I'm sure we've all done it even though we're obviously conscious of it? And how do you spread that understanding?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:07 PM

Most people acknowledge the brain has the power to make sick or make healthy - to some degree. So what effect does it have that we take in at least 1,000 ads per day telling us we aren't good enough or are unhappy?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

youth shouldnt be celebrated. wisdom should be

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

We the people need to start the change that our government has failed to do. we need to take care of our own. we need to set-up systems that get local food to people. we need to start more buying clubs (imo). thereby supporting local producers AND sa

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:08 PM

Well said @Melissa.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

Unless you have lived under a rock and you plan on living under a rock for the rest of your life, the effects of advertising on your perception of reality is inevitable.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:08 PM

Very true. We can't avoid being affected by advertising
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:08 PM

The question becomes what to do with it from there
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:08 PM

Yes, but you can get better at seeing through them, despite the subconscious effect.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:09 PM

Sort of like how your brain may pre-judge someone on the bus who looks like a homeless person. And then they surprise the hell out of you by commenting on the book you're reading and opening up a philosophical conversation
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:09 PM

I see an ad saying BP is a WONDERFUL GREEN company and it makes me angry. But most people don't get angry. They believe it to some extent.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:09 PM

Yeah, Einstein looked like a homeless person.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

how do we convince other people to stop consuming

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:10 PM

Conversations like these need to rise above the din of consumerism
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:10 PM

@Martin - I think part of it is to talk about the other important things life is about. It's not enough to just say "why do you want that crap?"
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:10 PM

Anti-black friday campaigns via alternative media
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:10 PM

Rather than just trashing consumption, we have to replace it with something - like art, hobbies, etc.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:11 PM

True, but people eat hypocrisy like candy on Halloween. They don't see the irony in celebrating Thanksgiving the day before they beat the shit out of someone for an Xbox
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:11 PM

People see shopping as a pass-time, a sport.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

We can convince people to stop consuming. Like Lee recently said, you can't do this suddenly. It has to happen s

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jim Munro

a thousand Rev Billy clones

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

people get upset when you talk about important things. they dont want to hear why they shouldnt want a new phone every year. doesnt help them

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:11 PM

I think those two comments bring up a good point
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:11 PM

People don't want to be preached at
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:12 PM

If you can advertise to them in the same way that Hanes does, you can get their attention better than telling them they're being a bad person
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:12 PM

@Eleanor - There's NO hypocrisy! We beat the shit out of the Native Americans and then we beat the shit out of a dude for a video game!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:12 PM

on another note, did I just misspell hypocrisy...gross.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:12 PM

Eleanor, are you offering to do underwear commercials for non-consumerism?
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:13 PM

I already have. So, yes
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

I think the whole thing is a result of the human condition being psychologically unwell.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:13 PM

Explain further, Jordan.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

I shot too quick from the hip there...I got excited...Lee does that to me!

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:13 PM

@Lisa, now this tawk is getting interesting!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:14 PM

Shoot as fast as you like - it's a heated discussion!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

@ Jordan the human condition is a direct result of the social structure we live in. Capitalism, profits above all else. With this at the heart what else could you expect them people to measure their worth buy the things they own.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:15 PM

Yeah, I agree with Robert. The idea of profit over all else has infiltrated every aspect of our lives.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

reducing dependency on money will make u not need a job when the system goes into a depression

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

People need to eat, drink and crap. Even if we don't make flat screen tv's just the basics are over consuming the planet

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:15 PM

True - but not everyone who lives in a social structure adheres to the ideologies set forth by that structure. Case in point, this tawk. The question becomes 1) what's the alternative and 2) how to move the paradigms of others
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:15 PM

Mitchell, I don't think so. We're incredibly wasteful!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:15 PM

There's something like 3 times as many empty homes in the US as there are homeless.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

I'll walk around naked if I thought it would reprogram one person's view.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:16 PM

And someone brought up the point earlier that in Houston and possibly soon LA, it will be illegal to give food to homeless
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jim Munro

Lisa could change two people's points of view

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

Machines are replaceing the need for human labor. Capitalism needs to grow endlessly on a finite planet. These thing are incompatible.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

1) alternatives: stop the disposable lifestyle. if it's trash after 1 use it's trash before you buy it. why are you spending hard earned money on trash?

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:17 PM

Eleanor - is that true? What's the punishment? I say we have feed-in protests.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

its just soo pathetic that we burn soo much fuel just for asshats to go to their pointless job

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:17 PM

yep, Lee it's true.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:17 PM

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/it-is-illegal-to-feed-the-homeless-in-cities-all-over-the-united-states
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:18 PM

@robert - absolutely right. And if the savings from technology (both money and time) were given to the people, we could have a damn wonderful society. But instead it all goes to the top 1%.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

hey forum mates! we have to vote up each other's comments for Lee and Eleanor to see them…

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

There may be 3 empty homes per homeless. But, there are many family living 5 people in a 2 bedroom apt just to get by. the empty houses are mcmansions

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Karen Roylance

I totally agree with the "disposable lifestyle". Everything is geared toward needing to be replaced in a week, in one use, one year etc.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:19 PM

It's an interesting point Karen, since in the 40s and 50s, things were built to last forever!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:19 PM

Planned obsolescence. There's more money in shit breaking than working.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:19 PM

I still have a coffee grinder from WW2 that works like new
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

Now with the holidays at hand, it's so difficult to make people aware of this wasteful spending.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:19 PM

@Lisa - have you tried that naked idea?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:19 PM

Eleanor - You were in WW2?!?!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:19 PM

I age well. Use a lot of anti-aging creams
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:20 PM

God, you look great. What anti-aging cream do you use?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:20 PM

Fuck, you won.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:20 PM

:)
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

The islands of Kiribati can support 500 people. 100,000 people are living in that area and just drawing water from the well is killing the aquifer (called a lens on an atoll)

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

so its not just a US thngs

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

Hahaha....shut up! I'm highly considering it since I got two votes on it.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:20 PM

As for spreading a message, it can even help if one person in a family - say, each person here, decided to buy something local or hand made or 2nd hand for their family
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

after the strikes and and all the effort to at least slow down black friday. Walmart reoirted the best black friday in history. Is it true? Idk. Does it depress the crap out of me? yes, very much.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:21 PM

or as Sophia wrote, donate to a charity
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:21 PM

Robert - It's having an effect. The strikes were twice as large as last year. It's growing even though it doesn't look like it sometimes.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

Eleanor you probably used human blood for anti aging. I heard the kardashians use it to stay looking young.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:21 PM

Which humans?
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:21 PM

No no, human blood is used for moisturizer
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:21 PM

Virgin blood is the best
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:22 PM

Question for people - If you give sustainable-themed gifts to your family for the holidays, or give them other things, do they get pissed? Are they cool with it? It can be a way to slowly influence them.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:23 PM

But I digress...I'm pretty damn poor but I'm going to buy my family money stamps for Xmas. They'll probably hate them but it's a message and a stance. It's something we can all do. Even if you make a point of saying this is from a local store or hand
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:23 PM

made
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

where do i find out about local protests!!

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:23 PM

What are they, Eleanor?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

million mask march on the 5th check ur nearest city

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:23 PM

@Melissa - that already happened. It was in November
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:23 PM

There are many different places to check for protests, Martin. Facebook is a great place to start
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:23 PM

stampstampede.com
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

My wife and I both have MS degrees and engineering undergrad degrees. Can't make enough money to buy presents this year.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:24 PM

That is yet another point, Mitchell. I know many intellectuals and people with college degrees who are barely making ends meet working jobs that have nothing to do with their education
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:24 PM

@Mitchell - you should get creative, give things like favors or whatnot. If you feel like "giving" is important to you, of course.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

my family is cool with it, but we dont exchange gifts. we decide who to donate to and give money to that. once side of the family. my husbands..does the orgy of gifts. those get donated, a lot of times..

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:25 PM

There's a thought! Tell your family members that any corporatized gifts will promptly be donated
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

If we all just agreed to stop buying gifts for the holidays, others would do the same and when it would hit critical mass...viola! Down with consumerism...well, at least for the holidays.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:25 PM

My latest MOC Show was on how rough people with advanced degrees can have it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FtKGEbab4M
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:26 PM

Loan debt is crushing people.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

i dont see what the problem is with re-gifting. if you had a gift that you dont want,give to someone who does.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:26 PM

and the reason it's called Black Friday is b/c that's when many businesses go into the black. So if you cut that life line, even by a fraction, and re-purposed that money, that would have a tremendous effect!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

We are just not doing xmas. No wishing a happy xmas no tress, no presents. Full boycott. We are atheist anyway and sick of having this holiday/jesus fairytale BS consumerism every year.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:27 PM

Robert, DO NOT drag Jesus into this!! He is my lord and savior!!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:27 PM

Haha - I'm an atheist too. I just do the xmas tree and lights b/c I think it's cozy.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:27 PM

Never mind, I was thinking of someone else.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jim Munro

Buy nothing Christmas https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BuyNothingChristmas&src=hash

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:28 PM

A menorah is not cozy, Eleanor?! Sheesh, what an anti-semite.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

lol, I know better then that Lee I follow your work very closely.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:28 PM

hahaha - yep. Not as cozy.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Bre Madsen

The challenge is getting people to see that purchasing goods does not equate to love and happiness

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:28 PM

I heard Jesus was into HUGE christmas presents - he would spend thousands on every single person he knew.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:29 PM

Jesus mainly gave away Gucci stuff. People loved him for it so much that they started a religion.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Karen Roylance

Haha...Athiest here as well!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:29 PM

Bre - that is the challenge. And since much of consumerism is geared towards kids, and younger generations, it's important to replace that with other "things"
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jim Munro

ultraorthadox atheist

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:30 PM

I'm an atheist as well. Maybe that's why we're all against rampant consumerism. Is there a link?
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:30 PM

And here you would think that Christians would be anti-consumerism, considering Jesus's financial status and what not
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:30 PM

There's that hypocrisy again tho
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:30 PM

Which is Religion's constant bedfellow.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:31 PM

I've noticed we just lost 50 audience members when we started talking about atheism. Oh well.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

That is what we are teaching our three children...anti-consumerism. Unfortunately, the middle one has fallen prey to it but the oldest And youngest are totally on board. Homeschooling is the future.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:31 PM

It makes me wonder if the rise of atheism will parallel with a rise in anti-consumerism...
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:32 PM

Lisa, if you don't send them to school where will they get their indoctrination?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:32 PM

You're not gonna be able to raise good soldiers that way.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:32 PM

Home-schooling is a good alternative, depending on the parents. I know some kids that were home-schooled that are absolutely stone cold fucking nuts
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:32 PM

EG - Yeah, I think the correlation is simply thinking deeply before believing things.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

Atheists are far more spiritual people…

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:33 PM

Education reform is another issue entirely but that is also a part of the corporately controlled dumbing down of the population
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:33 PM

No doubt. There is a lot of evangelical home schooling.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:33 PM

Yeah, the privatizing of schools is terrible.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

Our middle son decided to go to public school and he is totally against our life style. It's weird. I always say that they must of installed a consumerism chip into him at the hospital where he was born.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:34 PM

@Lisa - Are you sure it's not just standard rebelling against the parents?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

i think we just really need to stop making our children be in aw when they are given a gift

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Bre Madsen

As Gatto said: When you take the free will out of education, that turns it into schooling.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

i was home schooled and i resemble that remark

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:35 PM

I think that might just be human nature. Oooo shiny, shiny.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

I believe that school needs to be uniform across the country. Even as far as uniforms so that some kids don't have to wear bad clothes

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:35 PM

@Mitchell - but doesn't that make drones?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

I agree that homeschooling depends entirely on the parents. With that said, Fuck Indoctrination and all that shit but like you see, if my children want to chose a different path, I let them. Free will..well, free in our home.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:35 PM

I think clothes are a way of expressing yourself. Or it can be. I dressed like a complete weirdo and I'm glad that I was able to
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Karen Roylance

I know I learned to be a good consumer when they used to send out the annual Sears and JC Penney Christmas Catalogs. I can still smell those glossy pages filled with everything a kid could ever ask for! And I did, believe me I did!

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:36 PM

@Karen- Ha, me too. I fucking loved the toy section of those magazines!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:36 PM

Absolutely Karen - and I once threw a tantrum b/c my mom decided not to take me to the toy store
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:37 PM

So where does everybody stand on the anti-shopping nonviolent pranks? I promoted those on my Facebook and several people got mad at me.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:37 PM

They said I was making workers lives harder.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:37 PM

Maybe more than once, but that speaks to the idea that parenting isn't always the problem. It's where the kid goes, what they see, who they hang out with, what their teachers say, etc.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

@melissa - you're assuming that religious people can co-exist with logical thought. that's where it breaks…

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:38 PM

I think if it raises awareness, and the prank has a small effect on the workers, then to me, it's well worth it
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

What i don't get is that if religious parents really believer that their religion is true, then they should be constantly encouraging their children to go out into the world ad seek truth. knowing that they would only find evidence to support a "true

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Karen Roylance

I LOVE the anti-shopping pranks idea. I suggested them to my 88 yr old dear dad and he too loved the idea. Moms put a stop to our misdeeds in a hurry. That won't stop me from going it alone though! That will be my Christmas Cheer!

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:39 PM

EG - Yeah, making one worker clean up something is worth the overall goal. I mean, striking workers makes life harder for the others - but it is the only thing that gives workers power in the long run
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Bre Madsen

I think pranking corporations are the exact way to hit their wallets and force them to pay attention...I don't think that directly causing harm to the employees

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:39 PM

Exactly. You can't make everyone comfortable or happy
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:40 PM

Comfort is what is killing us. A small degree of comfort.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

yeah i want to do those PRANKtivism!!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

I tried to do the anti shopping prank but my husband got mad at me! I would just get a bunch of random things and misplaced them all over the store. I put a bunch of toys in the meat and freezer section. Hahaha! It was fun!

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:40 PM

If anybody wants to see my Pranktivism videos, go here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOQtEb5zhxc (after the tawk!)
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:40 PM

Absolutely! It's fun and it proves a point. People spread the world.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

you know what might be a good idea? make your own toys. and you could use local wood,and local sell them locally too. fuck the corporations!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:40 PM

word
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:41 PM

@Lisa - Ha! You're my hero.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:41 PM

I put a bunch of Palin books in the roach killer section - saw some guys taking pictures of it and posting it
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

Have you all seen the Yes Men? That is corporate praks at their best.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:41 PM

I have been lucky enough to work with the Yes Men some. They are awesome.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:41 PM

I did this video in coordination with the Yes Men - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXK90PacpJA
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

I tried to explain to him why I was doing it but he said I was setting a bad example to the kids. So I stopped, and went back to the stores alone with the kids to continue my mission.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

My favorite consulting job was going to Lego in Billund Denmark to try a new way to color Lego toys. I've made toys.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:42 PM

Hells bells! Good for you!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

OMG fun with "business reply mail" whenever i get a credit card offer i take out the business reply envelope and stuff it with paper (truth propaganda if i have any) and send them back. companis have to pay the postage on the mail they get

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:42 PM

@Melissa - HA!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:42 PM

Looks like we have quite the wealth of corporate pranksters here :) Keep it up!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:42 PM

I put Cheney's book in "True Crime" section of the book store
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:43 PM

I knew there was a reason I loved you guys!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:43 PM

We projected massive images on the side of Koch Bros. theater - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIRBMY55ShA
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

i always mess with telemarketers and then at the end i say my phone number? 1800 GO FUCK YA SELF and then i laugh

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

I love you too Lee! Eleanor is pretty awesome too!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:44 PM

So is pranking the answer to battling consumerism?
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:45 PM

Well, they continue to try to criminalize even the slightest dissent - things like small graffiti and drawing in chalk. It's insane.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:45 PM

If it didn't scare the powers that be, they wouldn't bother trying to make it illegal.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:45 PM

Very true. And I can only imagine that it will get worse.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

u should make an anual pranktivism day

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

I think 1 of many answers. our corporate overlords don't stop at 1 technique, why should we?

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Bre Madsen

I think its a good starting point. People still shop during protests.. but when it starts to effect their profits.. they have to listen..

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:46 PM

@Melissa - absolutely, many tactics are needed.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:46 PM

Absolutely Melissa - and tactics that can be mentioned in a non-preach but entertaining and engaging way
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:46 PM

non-preachy
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:46 PM

That's why this Worldwide Wave of Action seems like a pretty good idea. https://evolvesociety.org/feature/a-call-for-a-crowdsourced-worldwide-wave-of-action-www/
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:47 PM

holy hell, my spelling today...
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jim Munro

pranktivism could take over the old "Gait Night" which had been officially discouraged

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

the Koch brothers and 4 of the Waltons are 6 of the ten richest people in America. And guess who runs and fund the libertarian and tea parties....

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:47 PM

evolve society is also a great place to learn about days of action, which someone had asked about
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

I am near three employee owned stores. I get good deals and don't have to feel guilty like I am supporting Wal-mart

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

yes, i think we need more ides i've heard of power shutoff days, and i'd like to see more idea sharing

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:48 PM

The worldwide wave of action is supposed to start next year for several months. I think we should all keep an eye on it and whether it seems like it is growing.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from melissa kessler

there are tiny things we can all do every day, we just need the brilliant ones to help us figure it out.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

Yes, evolvesociety.org - is a new activist-created facebook type place. But it does not reveal your information to anyone.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

can i just say,that this topic is not just a US problem. what about the rest of the world too?

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

I am still trying to push TZM and a RBE. Hard to explain things the way Peter J does though.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jim Munro

I do most of my shopping at a unionized big box grocer and then market gardners for most of my produce

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

melissa, we ARE the brilliant ones. dont wait for others. start doing what you think helps and it will spread! trust your gut!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:49 PM

These tactics can be used world-wide, should be used
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

what are these people getting arrested for for chalking on sidewalks

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:50 PM

@Martin - Yes, a man in San Diego was facing 13 years for chalking outside Bank of America
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

Yes Lucy, you're right! We are all in this together. It's not just in one part of the world. What we do here, affects millions worldwide.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:50 PM

that happened here in LA too
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

i push an rbe and tzm as well. its not easy. but i feel like i HAVE to and to do less is not acceptable.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

Okay...let me just get this off my chest since I have a big one...FUCK FACEBOOK!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:50 PM

that was filed under disturbing the piece and defacing city property or something to that effect
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

I've considered starting a business providing green logistics to activist gatherings including selling sweet peppers

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:51 PM

@Eleanor - Well, I was also there the night people were shot with rubber bullets for chalking." If we can't arrest 'em, just shoot 'em!!"
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:51 PM

Any new business ideas and models that support the movement are GREAT ideas to avoid spending money on vapid, useless products
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

yeah but like what are they getting arrested for, while chalking

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:51 PM

Yeah, rubber bullets fucking sting! by the way
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:51 PM

@Martin - literally they were arrested for chalking.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

In houston at a chase back as well.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

if not for fb, i wouldnt know of this tawk

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:52 PM

I think that goes back to the idea that making use of platforms that you might not 100% agree with in order to fight more effectively
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:52 PM

that's a part of activism
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:52 PM

activists have to be a part of the society they're fighting for, otherwise, how can you push for change
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:52 PM

@Sophia - It can be both. Just like an organization could be wonderful but run by a corrupt leader. It doesn't mean the entire platform should be thrown out necessarily.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

I have had some good luck with FB and my page. I agree it is now a NSA shill but, I like them listening to me. Hope it scares the crap out of their owners.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Martin Bigger

disturbing the peace?? :P you know cuse mass the banks werent disturbing the peace

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:53 PM

well, that's just the point
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:53 PM

a man spent 10 years in jail for stealing a TV
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:53 PM

Yeah, foreclosing on millions of americans doesn't "disturb" things a little?
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:53 PM

bankers steal billions and get a bonus
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:54 PM

We have five minutes left. So if you have final thoughts, throw them out there!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:54 PM

it's clearly lop-sided and we know this. that's why these alternative methods of activism and raising awareness are crucial
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:55 PM

By the way, if you're only reading and not participating, please become a member of Tawkers (it's free). I'm enjoying the platform and getting to know everybody.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:55 PM

Also if you're in Los Angeles or know anyone there - I have TWO shows there WITH Eleanor this coming Dec 13th & 14th! Comedy, rock, and revolution!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:55 PM

http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/518092
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:56 PM

The shows are gonna be fucking awesome. Go to www.LeeCamp.net/schedule for details.
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:56 PM

There's the ticket link - it will be rad!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jim Munro

I'm hoping Brazil sponsors a new facebook, email and web search that doesn't sell off our info

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

lucy, mine is "if you're in marketing, kill yourself" lol

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

"watching TV is like spraying black paint on your third eye" - my final thought from a legend...

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:56 PM

Ha - I'm in marketing. I market the shit out of my band every day...but I think I'll stick around for a bit :)
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Bre Madsen

Thanks for taking time out of your day for this talk. It's inspiring connecting with people who have the same ideas and motivation for change!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:56 PM

Thanks for being a part of it, Bre! And everyone else
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:57 PM

Everyone here is inspiring people everyday. Inspiring to change, inspiring to do more...
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:57 PM

Final thoughts: Consumerism can consume if you let it.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

Good to know we are all not alone. Even if the MSM wants us to think that.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:57 PM

Damn straight, Robert!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

I'm a peaceful activist with a big heart hence the big chest to put it in, I agree on the barter system, I agree in spreading the truth and I will stand against consumerism and indoctrination until my final days hoping I have left this world better

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

thanks you two. i have to elenaor,you were the sane mind in a sea of crazyness!!

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:58 PM

But let's keep putting a wrench in the spokes!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:58 PM

What we've discussed are great alternatives to being consumed by the all mighty corporatocratic consumerism
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:58 PM

Or gears! Or something!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

well, I know I feel better about humanity after this Tawk…

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:58 PM

I hope that was genuine, Jordan, or I'll hunt you down and murder you. :)
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:59 PM

Eleanor, give your website for your band. People need better music in their lives!
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:59 PM

:)
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jim Munro

Lisa's a super-mom with super smart observations!

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:59 PM

rooftoprevolutionaries.com
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:59 PM

And @LeeCamp on Twitter
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

Dude - that was too legit to quit!

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 8:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

Thanks Lee, Eleanor for you time and effort. Know you are supported.

Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:00 PM

Thanks Robert! We're all supported in these efforts
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 9:00 PM

I have to run but I believe you can keep chatting after I'm gone. So feel free.
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 9:00 PM

(That's also what Jesus said.)
Eleanor Goldfield

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:00 PM

I do as well, but thanks again everyone! See you next time!
Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 9:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robert Jenkins

have to go slave for the man here doing the ACA. Much love and respect to all.

Lee Camp

Lee Camp · 9:00 PM

Keep fighting!