Eleanor Goldfield

Host

Is libertarianism the answer?

Aug 26, 2014·1,737 visitors

Lee Camp

Cohost

Stage· 319 messages

Aug 26, 2014

Eleanor Goldfield and Lee Camp discuss the rising popularity of libertarianism among political progressives - what are the pros, cons?

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

Hey Redactors, Claritians, Rooftop Revolutionaries - whatever you call yourself. Thanks for coming!!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Hey everyone! Thanks for joining this week's REVOLTING tawk. Looks like we already have quite the discussion going! Please let all your friends and foes know that you're here.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Hello to my lovely co-host Lee

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

Please tweet and post about this RIGHT NOW! Just paste the URL so friends can come.

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“Hey Lee and Eleanor looking forward to this tawk! :)”

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

And honestly, isn't making your friends come what life is all about?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

Different tawk lee - but one worth having

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

Hey El!

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“but all my friends are here already, Lee”

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

Then you have cool friends.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

I do indeed :)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

Looks like the conversation has pinpointed the corruption of our two party system

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

Topic this week - What about Libertarianism??

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“hello hosts El and Lee”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

So...how do we all feel about libertarianism?

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Taylor Thorington

“Imma say no to the Libs. Seem a little dogmatic to Capitalism to me.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

It's become pretty popular amongst progressives - ever since Ron Paul separated himself from the flock

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shaymus Bogman

“Just want to say Huge fan of both our hosts”

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

Thanks Shaymus!

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Reading for later: https://www.lp.org/files/2014_LP_Platform.pdf”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

Thanks Shaymus!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I don't know very much about libertarianism so I am here to learn tonight, I have heard it used quite negatively though”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

So Libertarians say they stand for "freedom" at every angle. But as most people know, this also means freedom for all corporations.

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“i think libertarianism is great for people who feel disenfranchised by the two party system”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“but i think we should be careful”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

Libertarianism is a right leaning party that is opposed to taxes, war, the fed - pro free markets, doesn't believe in global warming or a woman's right to choose

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Dawn Adams

“Laissez-faire politics scare the bejeezus out of me.”

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“How do they differ from the Green party?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

some people say they're middle of the road but because of their, what i consider to be, rather extreme economic ideologies, i would put them on the right.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from Taylor Thorington

“They'll just speed up the sale of our sovereignty to the corps IMO. The best way to fight is to not participate. No parties, no "progressiveness", just not participating. Do your own thing.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“hmm.. so another extreme ideology... and they don't believe in global warming?? nooo can't have that”

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

Prof Bea - Green party believes government is not inherently evil. The idea of gov't is meant to help society and help protect those without power. Perhaps our current one doesn't do that, but that's the idea.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

yeah rachel - when asked about global warming, ron paul responded with: it was a really cold winter at my home in texas, so no to global warming

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yeah I love the green party! let's go that route”

Lee Camp · 11:05 PM

Prof Bea - Green Party also believes in strict regulations on corporations thereby putting the power back in the people's hands rather than in the corps hands.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“what's the difference between libertarianism and anarchy?”

Lee Camp · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Taylor Thorington

“Hmmm, we should see if we can't get some libs in here to defend themselves.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

anarchy is the complete lack of government

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I can't back any party that refuses science... and no one should :/”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Barry Hamill

“so ron paul is part of the flat earth movement”

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“How can you help society when you're obligated to make a profit.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

hahah barry - i wouldn't say that necessarily but he is part of the "humans aren't fucking up the earth party"

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“A few of my friends love you, Lee, but unlike me, with copious amount of free time to lollygag online, they are working.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“I refuse "selective research."”

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

Thanks Kimba. Is talking about making a better world "lollygagging"?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Taylor Thorington

“Inevitably government always becomes a tool of the market. I like Green but they seem a little too optimistic to me.”

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jesse Jackson

“Ralph Nader was first person I voted for President”

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“we could use more gaggers, with or without lollies”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

Libertarians became pretty popular bc they got a lot of people on the right to accept an anti-war stance, based on the premise of more isolationist policies

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

I feel like all I need to know about Libertarianism is that the Koch Bros have funded the movement by in large. They're not all of it, but they sure do love it.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

but that of course doesn't make sense in such a global age, nor does a free market. the market is a man made object therefore it must be regulated

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

another good point, lee

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

pretty much anything the koch brothers touch is radioactive bullshit i take care to steer clear of

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“pretty sure i've never talked to a libertarian who supports the federal reserve, IRS, etc.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

@ben, not they don't. they're pretty famous for the line: "end the fed"

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“No Lee, talking about making a better world is not lollygagging :)”

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“yes, end the fed. they support ending it”

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

El - I wish everything they touched was radioactive. :)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

I will say the Fed is one helluva corrupt insititution - they take in over $40 million in interest a day - and aren't under gov't control.

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

The Fed makes $6 billion per year simply by printing our money.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

But I don't see free markets as the answer - we've seen what friedman style economics can do in south america...no thanks

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“the theory is that with a free market there will be more competition, more innovation, less cronyism”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

@ben, yeah, that's just not true tho

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

Hey all! Lee, I'm a big fan - love the new show! I've been a fan of your work for a while too, Eleanor. (and you used to work with my best friend, Steve B) Anyway, I'm a registered Libertarian, but do disagree with their lack of corporate restraint

Lee Camp · 11:11 PM

Hey Brooks - Good to have you here.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

a free market puts loads of money into the pockets of those who control it - basically there is no such thing as a free market. it needs to be regulated so that the society as a whole can benefit

Lee Camp · 11:11 PM

What do you like and don't like about Libertarianism?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Katie Klabusich

“Oh, hi! Just now popping in and I see Eleanor is all over my issue. Thanks. :) #RealLibertariansWouldBeProChoice”

Lee Camp · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“El, we would never know. our market is not free, never was, and never could be. a truly free market is basically impossible”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

@Katie - I've got you. That was one of the first things that made me want to punch Ron Paul...since then, there have been many others

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

exactly ben - that's just the point. it's like communism or anarchy. there is no such thing as a totally equal society or a society without government or rules. it just wouldn't work

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

I like to point out that when something is REALLY important to us (like taking care of your mother or putting a man on the moon) we take it out of the hands of the market. We don't trust the market to help our elderly mother down the stairs.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

I was drawn in by watching the "third party" debates and hearing what Gary Johnson had to say. I liked a lot of what Jill Stein brought to the table as well - but Johnson's ideas seemed more practical and achievable

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

We do it for free.

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“I feel like what libertarians fail to understand is that bureaucracy is not limited to govt - it exists in corporations/conglomerates as well.. hence the term "corporate state." Biz has just as much potential to be state-like/monopolistic as govt.”

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shaymus Bogman

“Responsibility for ones own actions”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Katie Klabusich

“It's true. He's fake libertarian. "Freedom for corporations" -- which is what most of the candidate/elected options are. Personal freedoms (choice, pot legalization, healthcare access, access to education) -- nah so much.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

Exactly Katie - a free market that allows "businesses" ie corporations do whatever they want. regulations are evil, so are taxes. let's have a small government that stays out of our lives but inside our vaginas

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

Shaymus - Responsibility is important but some people use that excuse to blame victims. They say poor people should be responsible for their poverty but most of it is not their fault. We live in an Oligarchy and they are not in the "in" crowd.

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

We also live in a very racist society.

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Good point Lee. The market is struggling to keep what its got and will never say die. I wish it would just get it over with.”

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yes, we need to free ourselves from the control money has over us and our world”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“I mean isn't the history of the robber barons the exemplary of how business can operate as state entities, controlling bills, employing defense contractors, et cetera. How do libertarians respond to this example?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Katie Klabusich

“The Majority Report had a great interview on Monday w/a woman from Demos talking about how "free market" really translates to "racist market." Worth checking out.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

cool - do you have a link to that katie?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“Would true libertarians be in favor of same sex marriage, pro choice, and in favor of religious freedom for all religions?”

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

Michael - A lot of them like to argue that anything else is not "freedom". That we're paying taxes and abiding by laws "by force." But we have agreed to live in a society with laws. For better or worse the idea is that we set up this society to make

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

life better.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Katie Klabusich

“When we aren't interested at all in leveling the playing field, we end up with women making $.70/$1.00 and people of color with twice the unemployment rate of white folks. (one sec...)”

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“the other and probably most important libertarian point of view is the non agression principle which i think most people would be supportive of and works hand in hand with personal responsiblitiy”

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shaymus Bogman

“Corporations are not people”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Katie Klabusich

“Monday's MR clip: http://bit.ly/1vNuJz3”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ El - the sexism and racism of policymaking is def a serious issue that gains zero traction in usual media news cycle. They just give us token Hilary's and Obama's and say "see!" LIke Cornell West said, O is just a "brown-face Clinton."”

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

Ending wars, pro-marriage equality, treating drugs as a health issue/ending the drug war and freeing up our prisons - all pretty appealing to me. Private prisons, and letting corps spew waste cuz people will buy their products... less appealing

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

Yeah, the typical banter between parties and their obvious candidates. I do agree that there need to be more parties and that people shouldn't be required to put up loads of cash to run in elections

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

And while I feel libertarianism should have its place at the table with parties like the Green party, I really don't agree with the majority of their platform

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

What do people think of the fact that Libertarians run in the Republican primary when they have so many differences? And Green Party does not run as Democrats? And Dems and GOP agree on 90% of the structural issues of this country.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

It's kind of how a lot of progressives run as democrats

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

because they want to make sure they get a spot

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@Katie - Right, it is one of those taboo subjects that even so called "progressives" dont touch - like Israeli aid in their apartheid regime. Even Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren support this!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“there is not enough competition between the Rs and the Ds, and they push their own candidates to the front. people have no choice anymore but the steam behind the libertarian party is growing. do we want to keep doing the same crap over and over?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“Eleanor, I tried starting my own party earlier this year.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Risch

“the bernie sanders liz warren thing is really interesting”

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

Ben - It's not lack of competition, it's agreement between the ruling elite. They silently agree not to question MOST things, like Wall Street or NSA or whistle blowers or so many others. Instead they sue each other over a Obamacare.

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shaymus Bogman

“Your right about responsibility Lee but part of being responsible is caring for people”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

the other thing with libertarianism - in it's randian philosophy is that people are encouraged to be selfish - to care for their own property, their own future. the concept of a social structure or society that cares for one another is lost

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@El - exactly. AIPAC is one of the biggest lobbies. Plus, as Ali Abunimeh has shown, Israel is the a security state that "field tests" defense and intelligence tech and then sources it out to first world countires for thier war on terror.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“So, how do you know if you are a libertarian? Can you like certain aspects do all parties? What does that make you? Confused?”

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

Shaymus - Yeah, but that's like when Ron Paul said at the debate that we don't need health care because if someone is sick others will take care of them.

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracy Kay

“Hey Folks,how are you?...Lee kinda new here,but like what you have to say”

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

Hey Tracy - Don't worry about being new. We're ALL new.

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“So, basically, we've answered the question in the first twenty minutes - no, Libertarianism is not the answer ....”

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

Kimba - Sometimes we're just on our game. :)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

Murder somebody? Lawyer on the house. Get sick? Tough shit.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“lucy, i think that makes you a independent free thinking human with a brain that functions party”

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“I'd enjoy addressing police brutality before we go.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ El - Right the selfish ego as Rand argued, is better for the rest of us. Not sure how she twisted that logic. Selfishness equates betterment of society?? No it equals corporate welfare.”

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

Prof Bea - what specifically?

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“A 31 yr old man was shot in the chest with his handcuffs behind his back today in my city.”

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“let's talk about how to get the green party recognized, kick the two-party system! :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

If you believe that we need to all be selfish then you also have to believe that every human being is inherently good - which then means you have some sort of randian transcendentalist ideology

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

and i'm pretty sure that's not what libertarians have

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

Yes, I'm amazed the Green Party can't gain more traction. I mean, it does have the entirety of the media against it - both "left" media and "right" media.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

which also then debunks itself bc being inherently selfish is not inherently good...oh libertarians...sigh

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

I think the green party will rise even more as alternative media rises

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

more and more people know who jill stein is for example

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“the whole thing with Jill Stein shouldn't have happened, people should have walked out of the debates until she was allowed on stage, we need to stand up for these things!”

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

It was amazing that Stein got arrested at the debates and no one talked about it. And then they try to tell us our media doesn't cover things up!

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“i haven't heard anyone speak about the green party in years. i'm sure its being silenced by the dems because they hurt them in elections”

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“The Green Party needs a charismatic "leader".”

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“We are Rach....now. But I agree. Something should have been done then”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ El - I am nodding in agreement with your logic.. And furthermore, I sense a Nietzsche quote coming re: inherent goodness or moral absolutism.”

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shaymus Bogman

“ Why do we have to stand up? Can't we have a sit in I'm tired”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

haha mike - i could go deep but i'll wade on the surface for now :)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I believe we are all born mainly good, but have you seen people's parenting skills? not a basket I want to put all my eggs in lol”

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“Can you not "promote" green topics on your show, lee? Even just hinting at them”

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

We do.

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“Yeah, aren't you in the Green Shadow Government?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

ha! couldn't agree with the parenting comment more, rachel

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ El - Splashing in the shallows is important too - gotta come up for air sometiems.”

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

Kimba - I'm the commissioner of comedic arts. I have tons of pull.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“The right and left don't realise that there is a centre path. One a hell of a lot of people are now taking”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I think it is harder for humanitarians to choose a leader, by definition that isn't what we are really about, but we do need organization like that”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“i wonder how much of our society would change on its own if we just focused more on education instead of material objects or kardashians”

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracy Kay

“I voted Green in 2012...just knew Obama was gonna win”

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ Lee - are you hiring? will work for peanuts, or coffee, or both..”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

yeah tracy - that's the problem with the two party system

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

Am I hiring for what?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“and why the fuck aren't we voting by computer yet?”

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

Ben - I totally agree.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:28 PM

that brings up the idea of democracy 4.0

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

I like this Democracy 4.0 idea - if enough people vote on an issue by computer, then we don't need a representative to vote. If not enough people vote, then the rep casts their vote.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:28 PM

a great idea that parallels perfectly with the digital age

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Phelps

“Some corrections - I don't speak for the Libertarian party but I'm very familiar with their positions... many libertarians DO trust the scientists regarding global warming, they just believe in finding free-market solutions to the problem.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

what exactly is a free market solution paul?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“Oh I like that idea (Democracy 4.0)”

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

Paul - Apparently part of the reason there is no widespread cure for Ebola is because there's no money in it. People are dying becuase of the free market.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Phelps

“And yes, by and large, libertarians are pro-choice. Ron and (possibly) Rand Paul are the exceptions (though they are not necessarily libertarians, just libertarianish)”

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“lee, the two people who were quarantined in atlanta have been released and cured”

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

Ben - You'll notice I said widespread.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

ron paul is the most famous (or infamous, however you want to see it) libertarian. if so many libertarians are pro-choice, why are they not more vocal?

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Katie Klabusich

“Lee is right on. It's part of why scientists are getting politically active; we used to fund research because greater good, etc etc. But Bush & Reagan gave us the corporate everything (including medicine) model. So, now people just die.”

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Phelps

“Also, most libertarians ARE for regulation. They seek regulation to eliminate monopolies so that the free market can thrive.”

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

Paul - That's not the way I've heard it.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

paul - what you just wrote contradicts itself

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

you can't have regulations in a free market

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

a free market is built on the lack of regulation

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

Furthermore, free market wouldn't stop pollution and dumping that gives people cancer down the road. Free market says "profit over all"

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Katie Klabusich

“Eleanor with the reason and the logic.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Phelps

“Mike Dwornik - libertarians ARE pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-drug legalization, and pro-religious freedom.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:32 PM

Paul, can you please give examples of candidates?

Lee Camp · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Risch

“to me the whole free market ideology has always been ridiculous on its face”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ Paul - do you have the stats to back up that claim?”

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“lucy, i think our monetary system is the ticking time bomb. how long can we continue to dig ourselves into debt with no recourse?”

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

Hey guys, it's 7:33 (my time) still time to tell your friends to join us!!

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rory Schreiber

“Sorry, coming in a little late. Unfortunate that the term libertarian has been hi-jacked and now means almost the exact opposite of what it has historically meant.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

well so has the term republican

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shaymus Bogman

“This is not ! A free market it is controlled by special interests and government ”

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“I can't wait until we break free of money.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

we're supposed to have a republic for fucks sake and all we have is an oligarchy backed by republicans...so yeah, the meaning of words, particularly in politics, change over time

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“the dems are in the oligarchy too el”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

i'm aware of that ben, i was simply using the name republicans as an example

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Phelps

“@Lee - LP's are not against community projects. They are against them at a national level, almost across the board, but not on a local level where there is more accountability and less opportunity for scandal.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“How are you going to ensure fairness EL...through a doctrine?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

not sure what you mean by that question john - fairness in what, and what sort of doctrine?

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“the republic is dead. the world has already declared us an oligarchy”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Phelps

“I'm just not sure you guys are really talking about libertarianism. This sounds more like you are disagreeing with a charicature of libertarianism.”

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“lee, why have i never see john in here?”

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

Ben - Ha. He doesn't feel like it.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

what we're talking about paul is what libertarianism looks like today, as far as i've heard from the mouths of libertarians

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

if there's something we're missing - please provide links, names and info where we can see otherwise

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

John IS on my weekly podcast though where we talk about these issues and more. I mean, you don't HAVE to listen, but if you don't, you're kinda a loser.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@Paul - You make some valid points. However, federal legislation is only different in degree from that of local legislation - the real issue is where our money is being routed to: corporate welfare.”

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“lee, you only do one a week, how hard u think it is to listen to them”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rory Schreiber

“Libertarian socialism could be the answer.”

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

Here's the last one - http://leecamp.net/podcast-308-sam-sacks-joins-the-podcast-as-hillary-clinton-goes-on-the-war-path/

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

Ben - Jesus, I have a TV SHOW TO DO!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ El - other than the Paul's, who else is a Libertarian in Congress? Is there any?”

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“yeah i think you take the topics we run off with here and use them on your next redacted. c'mon robot love? that was all us!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

not that i'm aware of

Lee Camp · 11:40 PM

Ben - Not true! That episode was done months ago in rehearsal. We just revised it for the live show.

Lee Camp · 11:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“Shay, you never had rights, only privileges - to quote george carlin.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“I mean, it to argue that only local govt can work ignores the idea of corruption as a whole. Look at small sectarian govts or small cults - the size or locality of representation is not the issue; the nature of that representation is.”

Lee Camp · 11:40 PM

Don't forget - we get a "free speech area" at protests.

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“I have the right to life here. There's natural rights we all have that can't be violated.”

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“ISIS is an example of small govt. Last I checked, ISIS kinda sucks.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

exactly mike - and having a federal government is not inherently evil. having a federal oligarchy is

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

a country this size needs a federal government

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

Speaking of ISIS - don't you love how one year ago we were going to bomb Assad to HELP ISIS and now we want to bomb ISIS to help Assad?!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rory Schreiber

“Direct representation, a person that comes from among the group they represent that can actually be recalled is more democratic and libertarian than what we have now”

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“@Professor Bea tell that to Michael Brown or the people in Gaza... :/ that's what I am saying, these basic human rights are being consistently violated”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

@rory - that was the original idea behind our republic - representatives from the populace

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rory Schreiber

“Anarcho-syndicalism is a good place to start”

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

Rory - That's what Chomsky says he believes in.

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“lee, it like no one in the media has any memory at all”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

and not only that, no career politicians. serving in the gov't was a public service and once your term was done, you'd go back into the populace so you'd never lose touch

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from phil chipper

“Anarchy comes from 'An' meaning "without" and archon meaning "rulers"”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“El - Yes that is the crucial point - I mean this is why we got rid of the Article of Confederation in the ol timey days.”

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Risch

“i saw that glenn greenwald story today Lee”

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

Ben - Yeah, it was a good one.

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“we fucking trained ISIS and does anyone know why the president calls them ISIL when everyone else calls them ISIS?”

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

Ben - It's because they're only ISIS in Syria

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“if we got money out of politics and made running a public service, imagine how many douchebags we would lose! :D I want to see that”

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

When they're beyond Syria, they're ISIL or the Islamic State.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

you and me both rachel. you and me both

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“Who hear also has a Chomsky tramp stamp on their lower back? Let's take a vote....”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

Michael - It's on my taint.

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“America still remains a land of such great potential amongst all the toxicity...there is so much that could be done now all in the name of good...I sure would like to return now.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

well it took us 44 minutes to bring up lee's genitals this time...we're improving

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“... *crickets crickets crickets* i totally dont have one guys, geez it was a joke.. *rubs lower back gently, softly*”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“I agree Rachel. I think the Wolf Pac is a good bet to get money out of politics...”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

El - We're doing great!

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@Lee - I, err,, how dare you trump mine.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Creating an amendment, like the good old days.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

we're the only generation who has yet to pass an amendment.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

we need to get on that

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

And we haven't even brought up yours yet!

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“No El - it wasn't his genitals. Taint aint here nor there.. its sorta the no mans land of genatalia.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Phelps

“On abortion: http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/lp-chair-not-pro-life-or-pro-choice-but-individual-choice-0”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

Shaymus - Have you seen my show? It's half crotch talk.

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Why do you think that is Eleanor? Why is our generation so willingly obedient.”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

Prof Bea - Apathy and goodies. The golden combination to obedience.

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“lee, this is levant otherwise known as israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant but the question remains, why does the president refer to it that way”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

Ben - you're acting like he's the only one. He's not.

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“@ProfessorBea - student loans and debt society makes people obedient.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shaymus Bogman

“Aren't we workin on that El?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

yes shaymus, we are.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

there's a movement in over 40 states to amend

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Dawn Adams

“Also, a lot of libertarians are born-again christians”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Thorn

“The issue with our obedient society is multifaceted”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:48 PM

as for paul's comment and link, thank you for sharing.

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“My student loans suck. I can't pay those fuckers. How am i thirty K in the red for sitting in a room with poor lighting and listening to a tenured prof lecture us on thier bright ideas, and oh i had to buy my own texts?! dafuck?”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Risch

“mystifying to me is how born again types are so pro military”

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@Bea - like lee once said, we are good at noticing sudden changes just not the subtle ones”

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Thorn

“Not all born again christains are anti abortion either”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

that was refreshing to see - however, it irks me that they're "so pro-choice" that they are for companies not having to offer abortion rights as well...

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“as the economic disparities become larger, people feel the need to be part of something, hence we get ALS ice bucket challenges and other mind numbing bullshit instead of people realizing they need to change the system, not flow with it.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

no regulations or subsidies - meaning that poor women who can't afford an abortion (a lot) wouldn't be able to get one - therefore curtailing their freedom to get an abortion...

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

Watch my segment on George W. Bush's Ice Bucket Challenge going horribly wrong! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy0DhdsLjiA

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Dawn Adams

“StrikeDebt will start paying off some student debts in September”

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Randall Blanchard

“About Libertarianism -- there is an intersection in Jakarta, where there are no traffic-lights, and a there is a fatality every few hours -- that is Libertarianism in action -- NO REGULATION !”

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

Randall - exactly. If you like Libertarianism, go to Somalia. There's almost no government.

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“rolling jubilee, love strike debt!!”

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from kimba kradel

“8 Reasons Why American Young People Don't Do Anything to Protest :: http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20Editorials/2011/August/9%20o/8%20Reasons%20Why%20American%20Young%20People%20Don%27t%20Do%20Anything%20to%20Protest%20By%20Bruce%20E%20Levine.htm”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Phelps

“Michael - one of the most important tenets of the libert platform is the abrupt end to corporate welfare. I might add, LONG before individual welfare.”

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“I have seen too much of this incredibly majestic planet of ours to know that JUSTICE is seriously lacking in the states.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

the problem is paul - you can not get rid of corporate welfare, i.e install regulations, in a free market economy

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

it won't work

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“el, in a free market there would be absolutely no such thing as corporate welfare”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

ha! ben, you make me laugh

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Thorn

“Sure yo can El”

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“Paul - there are many examples of libertarian principles worldwide which show enormous human rights atrocities - Shenzhen is a pretty good example i.e. Foxconn.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

ok, tim. i'm listening

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“el, did you support the bank bailout of 08?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:54 PM

corporate welfare is contingent upon the lack of regulations. corporations are allowed to rise in an economic structure that places their profit over the importance of the people in a society

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

Ben - The bank bailout was Socialism saving the day of unfettered capitalism - as it always is needed to do.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Thorn

“How do we know what the actual price of goods and services are when they are subsidized by the government with our money?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

two words tim: chile, argentina

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

we tried our friedman style free market economics there in the 70s

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

When GM continues to make cars that kill people because it would cost more to recall them? That's the free market.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

those countries still haven't recovered

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

a loaf of bread was hundreds of dollars

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

and corporations made a veritable SHIT TON

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

that's the free market

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Q: Is a free market a solution A: No.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Thorn

“the market would regulate itself. The way it stands now because of corporate welfare and regulations, you or I would never be able to start up a company that could compete with Verizon.”

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

No Ben, you're wrong. "Cronyism" was a term created by Koch Bros think tanks to deflect criticism of unfettered capitalism.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

tim, a market can not regulate itself

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

that's the whole point

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

history proves this. again and again and again

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

If you read interviews with the Koch Bros - they endless say "we need to get rid of cronyism"

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Thorn

“History has never proven it....because our government hasn't allowed it.”

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“but yes Lee is right, if the Koch Brothers are funding this effort, why in the world would we want to support it?? :p”

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“cronyism is when you give your friends a different set of rules to play by than everyone else. i'm going to research this and get back to you next week”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

Tim. We brought free market economics to south america, poland, china, the middle east. it has failed every single time.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

it. doesn't. work

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

Ben - "cronyism" and unfettered capitalism go hand in hand. They're not different worlds.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Thorn

“You are not showing factual examples here El”

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“so we agree that what we are doing now sucks but we dont want to get behind the movement that could reset our system, so what is our other choice?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

are you saying that chile, argentina, poland and china aren't real places tim?

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

Ben, what does that mean?

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“The nets of love at Foxconn factory amount to regulation in a libertarian state.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

b/c if they are, and i think they are, those are factual examples

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

"Nets of love" - I like that.

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“there are plenty of good movements trying to help our system”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Thorn

“Not once have we brought a free market anywhere. Our politicians and the ruling elite have feared free market enterprise from day 1.”

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

The nets are real, if that's what you're asking.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

Tim, seriously. You ignore the facts I hand to you and continue with ideological rhetoric. Please, do some research on our friedman style economics practices. i guarantee you'll find some shocking and unfortunate information

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

Tim - That's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard.

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

Anyway, that's the end of the tawk. I gotta run unfortunately. I hope you all keep discussing!

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

Thanks everyone for joining this week's tawk

Lee Camp · 12:01 AM

Please spread the word about Redacted Tonight - if you want it to stay on the air! bit.ly/RedactedTonight

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:01 AM

Feel free to keep discussing

Lee Camp · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Professor Bea

“Thanks for hosting this, I enjoyed myself.”

Lee Camp · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“thanks for the tawk Lee and Eleanor! I learned alot!! :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:01 AM

And our new EP has just been released today, you can get it on our website, itunes and amazon!

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:01 AM

rooftoprevolutionaries.com

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:01 AM

Have a good week everybody!

Lee Camp · 12:01 AM

Get the new EP! It's their best yet!

Forum · 485

Forum· 485 comments

1,737 visitors

EGLA EGLAAug 26, 2014, 7:01 AM

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 10:34 PM

Koch-funded think tank offers schools course in libertarianism - http://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/08/26/15387/koch-funded-think-tank-offers-schools-course-libertarianism

Dennis ButlerAug 26, 2014, 10:38 PM

They seem to be right on the money when it comes to foreign policy, but that's where it ends. They are all wrong on trade, deregulation, privatization...

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 10:42 PM

Who's ready for the rise of Libertarianism and the ensuing Corporate takeover?

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 10:42 PM

is this from the need of more than the two parties?

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 10:49 PM

@Dennis, I kind like the whole personal freedom thing, but considering the .incs are people too...

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 10:54 PM

no.... dictatorship is the way to go...every four years people vote for the person they "like the look of" rather than somebody who actually knows what they are doing...

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 10:55 PM

One question: Do they support getting money out of politics and getting corporate tax back to average?

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 10:55 PM

Implying someone who knew what they were doing would be able to do anything anyways, even if they were elected

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 10:55 PM

@Barry if only people truly understood how groomed those people we vote for truly are

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 10:56 PM

take holidays for example i'm sure if you had a vote on who should fly the plane ..the pilot or your buddy steve ...with drink involved you would probably vote for steve even though steve doesn't know what he is doing

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 10:56 PM

Not even libertarians can run as libertarians to have a fair shot. They run as Republicans.

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 10:57 PM

you're right rachel...bothe parties are singing from the same hymm sheet ...big business dictates us foreign policy

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 10:58 PM

Which party is for the disbandment of the other parties?

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 10:58 PM

The party that isn't a party. It's the group who doesn't participate @prof

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 10:58 PM

looking forward to this one Lee and Eleanor! :-)

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 10:58 PM

it's just crazy the psychological lengths they will go to, to convince people they are on their side - especially after decades of proving that isn't happening... crazy to me

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 10:58 PM

rachel you should run for president ...if for no other reason keep that warhawk hillary out

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 10:58 PM

I second that

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 10:59 PM

i third that

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 10:59 PM

@Barry haha! thank you! Anything to see Hilary run unopposed lol

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 10:59 PM

@rach - can i be vice pres?

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 10:59 PM

First time here hello everyone

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 10:59 PM

Should we second and third by using the up and down thumbs maybe...

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 10:59 PM

ugh 2016 is gonna be the worst

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 10:59 PM

Vermin Supreme, The only dictator I'll ever vote for.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 10:59 PM

haha sure Lucy. I must warn everyone I have no idea what I am doing lol

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:00 PM

Everyone should just write themselves in on the next election.

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:00 PM

hi saymus ....not sure about slandering my people though

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:00 PM

24 degrees, just rained & the sun ain't up yet. Good morning my fellow earthlings.

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:00 PM

@Professor - use thumbs to get the comment exposed to the hosts

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Hey Lee and Eleanor looking forward to this tawk! :)

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:00 PM

Shaymus for prez

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:01 PM★ Spotlighted

but all my friends are here already, Lee

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:01 PM

haha nice pun Lee

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:01 PM

And I don't have friends

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:01 PM

yes i do :-)

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:01 PM

It's not who you know, it's where your friends are.

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:01 PM

the thumbs down tab looks pure evil

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:01 PM★ Spotlighted

hello hosts El and Lee

Jesse JacksonAug 26, 2014, 11:02 PM

Lee so glad I found this

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:02 PM

how do you know if you are a libertarian?

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:02 PM★ Spotlighted

Imma say no to the Libs. Seem a little dogmatic to Capitalism to me.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:02 PM★ Spotlighted

Just want to say Huge fan of both our hosts

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:02 PM★ Spotlighted

Reading for later: https://www.lp.org/files/2014_LP_Platform.pdf

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:02 PM

l like Tom Tomorrow's Invisible Hand cartoons

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:02 PM★ Spotlighted

I don't know very much about libertarianism so I am here to learn tonight, I have heard it used quite negatively though

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM

"It'll work itself out" they say. Sounds familiar...

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM

@Rach - me too

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

i think libertarianism is great for people who feel disenfranchised by the two party system

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

but i think we should be careful

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM

The root word is liberty

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

Laissez-faire politics scare the bejeezus out of me.

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM

@Lee - with any party you have, there will always be a down side. No?

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

How do they differ from the Green party?

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:03 PM

How can that be bad

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:04 PM

libertarianism is just like kinda the same as dictatorship rachel.....i'm sure of it ...i rseen it on twitter ...

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:04 PM★ Spotlighted

hmm.. so another extreme ideology... and they don't believe in global warming?? nooo can't have that

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:04 PM

if you think of the political spectrum as a circle instead of a line, i think libertarianism appeals to far left and far right leaning people

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:04 PM★ Spotlighted

They'll just speed up the sale of our sovereignty to the corps IMO. The best way to fight is to not participate. No parties, no "progressiveness", just not participating. Do your own thing.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM

If "fair" and "just" are part of libertarian policies then it can be the answer. "Free" sounds fabulous, but unfortunately gets twisted and used for evil purposes.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

yeah I love the green party! let's go that route

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM

Not getting involved has its perks

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

Hmmm, we should see if we can't get some libs in here to defend themselves.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

what's the difference between libertarianism and anarchy?

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM

I do agree with the libertarian stance on the military industrial complex, however

Mike DwornikAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM

Greetings!

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

How can you help society when you're obligated to make a profit.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM

(obligated by law)

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

I can't back any party that refuses science... and no one should :/

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

so ron paul is part of the flat earth movement

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:05 PM

greetings

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

A few of my friends love you, Lee, but unlike me, with copious amount of free time to lollygag online, they are working.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

I refuse "selective research."

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

Inevitably government always becomes a tool of the market. I like Green but they seem a little too optimistic to me.

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:06 PM

science rocks.....

Jesse JacksonAug 26, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

Ralph Nader was first person I voted for President

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

we could use more gaggers, with or without lollies

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:06 PM

So does copious amounts of free time that rocks

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:07 PM

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_--YjWiyF8eE/TBkxCNkkN9I/AAAAAAAAGzs/usMOgFnVkAk/s1600/story-1.jpg

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:07 PM

working online has its perks lol

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:07 PM

I know a Libertarian (woman) who is middle of the road and in some cases progressive.

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:07 PM

i think its a good good idea to see both sides of an idea then judge for yourself which one you think is right

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:07 PM

also their monetary policy el

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

I almost said librarian.

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

Because it removes the last fragile barrier to their takeover Lee.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

The Koch Brothers can fund anything they want.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

Liberty does well in any argument

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM★ Spotlighted

pretty sure i've never talked to a libertarian who supports the federal reserve, IRS, etc.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

And they do. And some they don't want.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

that's the scary part lee

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

on the surface it sounds good, but then theres that

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

and "free markets" are scary as fuh

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

not sure about that Shaymus

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:08 PM

The Koch Brothers will eventually own the world....IF we don't put a stop to them

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

Laissez-faire means to allow to do. Kochs want to be allowed to f*ck us without lube without any regulations

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

@ Lee - just like the tea party was a "grassroots" movement which was funded by the Kock bros too

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

So hey where are our gracious hosts anyway

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

sounds like they just want to be free to hoard as much money and control as they want... same shit, different party :p

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

No Lee, talking about making a better world is not lollygagging :)

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

yes, end the fed. they support ending it

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

and the irs

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

End the fed or it will end us

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

their monetary policy is attractive. gold standard

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

Like, when you deregulate a market, these already overpowered corporations have no more obstacles from taking over. It'l be like Lowell for the new age.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

They are funded by corporations, so I guess they are out.

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:10 PM

i really cant understand why everyone is rubbishing my dictatorship idea....micheal could you fill that vacancy ....

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

the theory is that with a free market there will be more competition, more innovation, less cronyism

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:10 PM

thats cos the FED control the government.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:10 PM

If we get a libertarian majority, do you think they'd enact law to change it?

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:10 PM

or ben.....to be fair we could hold a vote on....oh wait

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:10 PM

a free market isn't free when it has corporate welfare backing it

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:10 PM

Root word of dictator is d!"ck

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:11 PM

free market,my arse. free for the big corps etc but not for us little people

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:11 PM

that's what would happen if we got rid of money, Ben :)

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:11 PM

I have never been attracted to Libertarianism nor the Koch Brothers, nor Ron Paul.

Katie KlabusichAug 26, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

Oh, hi! Just now popping in and I see Eleanor is all over my issue. Thanks. :) #RealLibertariansWouldBeProChoice

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

El, we would never know. our market is not free, never was, and never could be. a truly free market is basically impossible

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM

Prochoice only? Oh well, you lost about half of Republicans.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM

Small government and individual freedom and responsibility

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM

Also, speaking of Paul, I think Lee recently showed a video of him running away fro some DREAMers right? Xenophobia aint cool

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM

@katie, this brings up the other point about libertarians. are tea party and libertarians the same?

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM

I also agree with the libertarian take on the drug war

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

I feel like what libertarians fail to understand is that bureaucracy is not limited to govt - it exists in corporations/conglomerates as well.. hence the term "corporate state." Biz has just as much potential to be state-like/monopolistic as govt.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

Responsibility for ones own actions

Katie KlabusichAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

It's true. He's fake libertarian. "Freedom for corporations" -- which is what most of the candidate/elected options are. Personal freedoms (choice, pot legalization, healthcare access, access to education) -- nah so much.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:12 PM★ Spotlighted

yes, we need to free ourselves from the control money has over us and our world

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:13 PM

Self ownership

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:13 PM

sorry folks i'm just playing about with the thumbs up tab....how come nothing happens when you give a thumbs down

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

Good point Lee. The market is struggling to keep what its got and will never say die. I wish it would just get it over with.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:13 PM

Agreed.

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

I mean isn't the history of the robber barons the exemplary of how business can operate as state entities, controlling bills, employing defense contractors, et cetera. How do libertarians respond to this example?

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:14 PM

personal responsibility, focus on education, environmental issues and personal property are all great libertarian views though

Barry HamillAug 26, 2014, 11:14 PM

rich people telling middleclass people to blame poor people

Katie KlabusichAug 26, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

The Majority Report had a great interview on Monday w/a woman from Demos talking about how "free market" really translates to "racist market." Worth checking out.

Taylor ThoringtonAug 26, 2014, 11:14 PM

Well, I gotta go, but I certainly got the info I needed from this forum. See you guys.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:15 PM

So, money out of politics, corporations aren't people, anything else? Corporate taxes and class equality.

Mike DwornikAug 26, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

Would true libertarians be in favor of same sex marriage, pro choice, and in favor of religious freedom for all religions?

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

Corporations are not people

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

the other and probably most important libertarian point of view is the non agression principle which i think most people would be supportive of and works hand in hand with personal responsiblitiy

Katie KlabusichAug 26, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

When we aren't interested at all in leveling the playing field, we end up with women making $.70/$1.00 and people of color with twice the unemployment rate of white folks. (one sec...)

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:15 PM

And they should not have the same rights

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:15 PM

Mike, i believe they would

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:16 PM

to the people already disadvantaged and exploited things would just get worse, for any of this to be "fair" everyone would have to be reset to an equal playing field

Katie KlabusichAug 26, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

Monday's MR clip: http://bit.ly/1vNuJz3

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

@ El - the sexism and racism of policymaking is def a serious issue that gains zero traction in usual media news cycle. They just give us token Hilary's and Obama's and say "see!" LIke Cornell West said, O is just a "brown-face Clinton."

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:16 PM

I agree brooks

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:16 PM

No tax on labor only corporation

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:16 PM

They will say we already have it set up for society to help society. Look at all our international aid programmmes

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:16 PM

@ Lee - Ya, exactly. Well said. Either we have rule of law or rule of men and their opinons.

Katie KlabusichAug 26, 2014, 11:16 PM

Mike -- yes. And I know a handful of those folks. They're appalled to hear what our state legislatures are busy doing, etc.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:17 PM

Look how good the corporations do at eliminating poverty in developing countries.

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

Eleanor, I tried starting my own party earlier this year.

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

@Katie - Right, it is one of those taboo subjects that even so called "progressives" dont touch - like Israeli aid in their apartheid regime. Even Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren support this!

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

there is not enough competition between the Rs and the Ds, and they push their own candidates to the front. people have no choice anymore but the steam behind the libertarian party is growing. do we want to keep doing the same crap over and over?

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:18 PM

I have you know I voted for the Roman Toga Party in our local elections recently (not kidding)

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

the bernie sanders liz warren thing is really interesting

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:18 PM

Think of your great grandfather and how he suffered through PTSD during world war 1 while living in robber baron times.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:19 PM

What about voting for more than one party and allowing them to work with each other? Like proprotional representation?

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:19 PM★ Spotlighted

Your right about responsibility Lee but part of being responsible is caring for people

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:20 PM★ Spotlighted

@El - exactly. AIPAC is one of the biggest lobbies. Plus, as Ali Abunimeh has shown, Israel is the a security state that "field tests" defense and intelligence tech and then sources it out to first world countires for thier war on terror.

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:20 PM★ Spotlighted

So, how do you know if you are a libertarian? Can you like certain aspects do all parties? What does that make you? Confused?

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:20 PM

what about just the people party...sure everybody can agree on that in these times.

Tracy KayAug 26, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

Hey Folks,how are you?...Lee kinda new here,but like what you have to say

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:21 PM

this whole party just seems very selfish from all I have heard...

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

I'd enjoy addressing police brutality before we go.

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

So, basically, we've answered the question in the first twenty minutes - no, Libertarianism is not the answer ....

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:21 PM

Maybe not the total answer.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

lucy, i think that makes you a independent free thinking human with a brain that functions party

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:21 PM

The answer is...no, but.

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:22 PM★ Spotlighted

@ El - Right the selfish ego as Rand argued, is better for the rest of us. Not sure how she twisted that logic. Selfishness equates betterment of society?? No it equals corporate welfare.

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:22 PM

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:22 PM

@Ben - really? That means I'm cool then

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:22 PM

I hope that's not true El I think one could balance personal liberty and responsibility to others

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:22 PM

woot

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:22 PM★ Spotlighted

let's talk about how to get the green party recognized, kick the two-party system! :)

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:22 PM

A 31 yr old man was shot in the chest with his handcuffs behind his back today in my city.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:22 PM

And I'm consistently told, not to blow it out of proportion, cops need to do their jobs and he doesn't deserve justice if he's evading arrest.

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:23 PM

The Green Party is recognised over here, Rach. It's far bigger now than it was years ago

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:23 PM

I think just the people party will do it.

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:23 PM

I mean, the leader got arrested at that fracking site

Tracy KayAug 26, 2014, 11:23 PM

I remember an old episode of Morton Downey Jr from the 80z

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

the whole thing with Jill Stein shouldn't have happened, people should have walked out of the debates until she was allowed on stage, we need to stand up for these things!

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

The Green Party needs a charismatic "leader".

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

We are Rach....now. But I agree. Something should have been done then

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

i haven't heard anyone speak about the green party in years. i'm sure its being silenced by the dems because they hurt them in elections

Tracy KayAug 26, 2014, 11:24 PM

Anyway his guest was Ron Paul

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:24 PM

seriously amazing

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

@ El - I am nodding in agreement with your logic.. And furthermore, I sense a Nietzsche quote coming re: inherent goodness or moral absolutism.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:25 PM

and even now you tell people and they just have this response like, well she must have deserved it... what??

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:25 PM

that is the problem kimba, look what they have and continue to do to leaders.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

Why do we have to stand up? Can't we have a sit in I'm tired

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:25 PM

The Green Party needs to take lessons from the civil rights movement (I think) and realize that idealogies are not enough - the party has to out perform the Democratss and Republicans.

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:25 PM

Can you not "promote" green topics on your show, lee? Even just hinting at them

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

I believe we are all born mainly good, but have you seen people's parenting skills? not a basket I want to put all my eggs in lol

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:26 PM

Sit in, lay in...nap in public. Nonviolence woot.

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

Yeah, aren't you in the Green Shadow Government?

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

@ El - Splashing in the shallows is important too - gotta come up for air sometiems.

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

The right and left don't realise that there is a centre path. One a hell of a lot of people are now taking

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:26 PM

curious to hear this Morton downey ron paul story

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

I think it is harder for humanitarians to choose a leader, by definition that isn't what we are really about, but we do need organization like that

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

i wonder how much of our society would change on its own if we just focused more on education instead of material objects or kardashians

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM

Well, apparently you have more pull than any of us :)

Tracy KayAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

I voted Green in 2012...just knew Obama was gonna win

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM

ugh the things I see from some people that they call good parenting :/

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

@ Lee - are you hiring? will work for peanuts, or coffee, or both..

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM

Then do it more, lee. You know I'll help out if needed. I'm sure lots of others would too

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

and why the fuck aren't we voting by computer yet?

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM

@ But Ben - Kardshians and twerking comprise of 50 percent of our GDP

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:27 PM

I agree Ben Hertz. Online education is beginning to overcome the intentional break from reality people like to take in entertainment.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM

We are, just not in the electorate. Micro votes, crowd funding, crowd sourcing.

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM

@ Lee - as Comedic Commissioner of the Arts

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM

Why would anyone want computer voting?

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM

@ben - they are hoping to do just that for the next election here.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM

@Ben too many risks of tampering still, especially from the elite with their hands in our system

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM

Every youtube like could be a public "vote"?

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM

it would certainly allow many people who wouldn't have voted before to just vote real quick. they dont want people voting. get your iVote app from the itunes store NEVER

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM

You know Adam Kokesh's book Freedom was pretty good at laying out the in outs odds and ends of things for me but not sure exactly what makes one libertarian

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

Some corrections - I don't speak for the Libertarian party but I'm very familiar with their positions... many libertarians DO trust the scientists regarding global warming, they just believe in finding free-market solutions to the problem.

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:29 PM

@ Ben - exactly. Our state officials are so behind in tech.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:29 PM

we should just pick whoever gets the most popular vote from a bunch of candidates. why only 2?

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

Oh I like that idea (Democracy 4.0)

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:29 PM

One person = one vote. Altho some might get round that by getting their corp to vote. They are people after all

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

And yes, by and large, libertarians are pro-choice. Ron and (possibly) Rand Paul are the exceptions (though they are not necessarily libertarians, just libertarianish)

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:29 PM

We have to sell it somehow.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

lee, the two people who were quarantined in atlanta have been released and cured

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:30 PM

isnt forming a govt that makes laws technically a "free market" if you think about it

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:30 PM

Case in point, the recent shooting of Powell - I was debating a law enforcement officer on FB the other day.. he said that dispatch only notifies PD via radio code about details of events, not timeline.. P1

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:30 PM

solution that is

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:30 PM

It still seems like there are a lot of different ideological differences/extremes between those in this one party...

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:30 PM

That's not free market it controlled

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

Also, most libertarians ARE for regulation. They seek regulation to eliminate monopolies so that the free market can thrive.

Katie KlabusichAug 26, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee is right on. It's part of why scientists are getting politically active; we used to fund research because greater good, etc etc. But Bush & Reagan gave us the corporate everything (including medicine) model. So, now people just die.

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:31 PM

Therefore, PD only knew that Powell had stolen sometihng and was "armed." What they should have known was that it was unarmed petty theft, and he had a butter knife. but there is no comm. of that, just that he is armed. p2

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:31 PM

we need to think humanely before we think of money... our priorities are backwards

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:31 PM

They said the latest person to be infected with Ebola can't be cured with this new medicine. And yes, they used the word cure

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:31 PM

paul, please reference that for me. i've been researching libertariansim for almost a year and i've never seen one libertarina say that

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:31 PM

me neither

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:31 PM

Therefore, PD could have been rolling up on either a. rambo with a grenade launcher or b. an autistic kid with a butter knife... why not replace radio with um idk fucking digital communication??!

Katie KlabusichAug 26, 2014, 11:31 PM★ Spotlighted

Eleanor with the reason and the logic.

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

Mike Dwornik - libertarians ARE pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-drug legalization, and pro-religious freedom.

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:32 PM

TPP is the ticking time bomb of the free market

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:32 PM

Wow I am going to have to study what libertarian means again after this tawk

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

to me the whole free market ideology has always been ridiculous on its face

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

lucy, i think our monetary system is the ticking time bomb. how long can we continue to dig ourselves into debt with no recourse?

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

@ Paul - do you have the stats to back up that claim?

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:33 PM

who cares what we trade, if our money isn't worth anything, does that matter?

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:33 PM

although i hate free trade agreements too

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:33 PM

lol

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:33 PM

That's just a part of it Ben. TPP will kill free market and make more money for those who have a shit load now.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:33 PM

Where do you see the libertarian party heading with market reform?

Rory SchreiberAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

Sorry, coming in a little late. Unfortunate that the term libertarian has been hi-jacked and now means almost the exact opposite of what it has historically meant.

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

I did. On facebook.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

yes i agree lucy

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

@Ben until we break free from money or revert to human slavery for the poor... hopefully the former

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

Brooks - agreed on private prisons. Most libertarians would find that a very extreme example of free-market. The good part about LP is there would be a LOT less people behind bars, regardless.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

so has the term freedom

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

This is not ! A free market it is controlled by special interests and government

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

I can't wait until we break free of money.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

It was Rory?!

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

You can break free now

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM

me either Kimba! :)

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM

I've lived without it before

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM

Kimba, what would that look like. I've been waiting.

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM

It would seem Paul's overall characterization of Libertarians, being pro-chioce, is correct. That said, I wonder how many actually have voices in govt? Like El said, the Paul's are both pro-life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_perspectives

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

the dems are in the oligarchy too el

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee - LP's are not against community projects. They are against them at a national level, almost across the board, but not on a local level where there is more accountability and less opportunity for scandal.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

How are you going to ensure fairness EL...through a doctrine?

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM

not just getting rid of money personally but, societally, that is the only way I see us truly finding a humanitarian way of life

phil chipperAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM

Daddy's home! Who's ready to get godfucked by the Truth?

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM

Yes, dems enjoy the same lifestyle.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM

Government regulation is controll

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

the republic is dead. the world has already declared us an oligarchy

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM

@ProfessorBea: It would look beautiful and m description of it would be too long for one comment.

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

I'm just not sure you guys are really talking about libertarianism. This sounds more like you are disagreeing with a charicature of libertarianism.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM

we need to change the meanings to what they really are... tell everyone who says this is a democracy, that it isn't anymore

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM

Drop out and grow food

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM

I've heard of community juries and international organizations try to accuse the republic of not being a republic, where do those efforts lead?

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM

30 or 40 years left according to Grubb's model

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

lee, why have i never see john in here?

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:37 PM

International judges, those in the UN who haven't been bought off, please help.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:37 PM

figures. lol

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:37 PM

he must be too busy with wrestlers kids

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:37 PM

because John is monitored

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

@Paul - You make some valid points. However, federal legislation is only different in degree from that of local legislation - the real issue is where our money is being routed to: corporate welfare.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:37 PM

Democracy puts 55 in charge of 45

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:38 PM

I want rights that can't be voted away

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

lee, you only do one a week, how hard u think it is to listen to them

Rory SchreiberAug 26, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

Libertarian socialism could be the answer.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:38 PM

not hard enough....do more

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:38 PM

we need get our basic rights back... that would be a good place to start

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:38 PM

I want clear political language, not rhretoric

Pablo ekCampecinoAug 26, 2014, 11:38 PM

Each individual can come to know themselves to be free of all forms of hierarchical control. This is not to imply that we should not trust others or join together in bonds of friendship and community. It is simply a reminder that relative truth is co

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

@ El - other than the Paul's, who else is a Libertarian in Congress? Is there any?

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM

An awesome tv show! :)

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM

There was a framework created for our freedoms once before

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

yeah i think you take the topics we run off with here and use them on your next redacted. c'mon robot love? that was all us!

phil chipperAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM

@Shaymus all being have binding and immutable rights under natural law :)

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM

sam 2.0 was hilarious

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM

So, get local rights back, then State rights, then kick the fed in jail? Can that be a plan?

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

Shay, you never had rights, only privileges - to quote george carlin.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:40 PM

Very true but does the power respect that? noO

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:40 PM

Well duh, of course it doesn't

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:40 PM

Rip George

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

I mean, it to argue that only local govt can work ignores the idea of corruption as a whole. Look at small sectarian govts or small cults - the size or locality of representation is not the issue; the nature of that representation is.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:40 PM

i think john oliver trolls here, reads what we type, he makes a show, then you take his show and make redacted LMAO!!

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:40 PM

Maybe we should all be Browncoats?

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:40 PM

fairness across the board, people not bothered by silly & corrupt rules...allowed to thrive and thinking like a B corp if can get big.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

I have the right to life here. There's natural rights we all have that can't be violated.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:41 PM

Eternal vigilance

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

ISIS is an example of small govt. Last I checked, ISIS kinda sucks.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:41 PM

haha, but only in a specified area or forget it

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:41 PM

It's not a privledge to live.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:41 PM

Well, they can be..

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

@Professor Bea tell that to Michael Brown or the people in Gaza... :/ that's what I am saying, these basic human rights are being consistently violated

Rory SchreiberAug 26, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

Direct representation, a person that comes from among the group they represent that can actually be recalled is more democratic and libertarian than what we have now

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM

(That was a Firefly reference).

Rory SchreiberAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

Anarcho-syndicalism is a good place to start

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM

We are in backwards land Ellenore

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM

What I think of ISIS...they're whatever we want them to be.

phil chipperAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

Anarchy comes from 'An' meaning "without" and archon meaning "rulers"

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

lee, it like no one in the media has any memory at all

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

El - Yes that is the crucial point - I mean this is why we got rid of the Article of Confederation in the ol timey days.

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

i saw that glenn greenwald story today Lee

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:42 PM

I don't think there is any good that can come out of the ISIS / Syria situation.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

we fucking trained ISIS and does anyone know why the president calls them ISIL when everyone else calls them ISIS?

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:43 PM

Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:43 PM

if we got money out of politics and made running a public service, imagine how many douchebags we would lose! :D I want to see that

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

Who hear also has a Chomsky tramp stamp on their lower back? Let's take a vote....

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:43 PM

Child trafficking was also in the news in UK.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

America still remains a land of such great potential amongst all the toxicity...there is so much that could be done now all in the name of good...I sure would like to return now.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:44 PM

no, islamic state of iraq and syria but the L stands for Levant which is the ancient name for the road from egypt to turkey, or i might be reading too many patriot pages on fb

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

... *crickets crickets crickets* i totally dont have one guys, geez it was a joke.. *rubs lower back gently, softly*

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:44 PM

I agree Rachel. I think the Wolf Pac is a good bet to get money out of politics...

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:44 PM

the fact that child and human trafficking is so prevalent in the U.S. and around the world is also something we should NEVER allow... :(

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee - I, err,, how dare you trump mine.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:45 PM

everyone here should join wolf pac right now

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:45 PM

and if you dont, kill yourself

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

Creating an amendment, like the good old days.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:45 PM

Wow crotch talk with Lee and El

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

No El - it wasn't his genitals. Taint aint here nor there.. its sorta the no mans land of genatalia.

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

On abortion: http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/lp-chair-not-pro-life-or-pro-choice-but-individual-choice-0

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:45 PM

If the us and the UK - and possibly the rest of the world - stopped arming these countries, wouldn't that be a start? But with a bill going thru, back by one liz warren amongst other, that's not gonna happen any time soon

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

Why do you think that is Eleanor? Why is our generation so willingly obedient.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:46 PM

haha the up close and personal weekly tawk lol

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

lee, this is levant otherwise known as israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant but the question remains, why does the president refer to it that way

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:46 PM

Yea like corporations are not people

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

Aren't we workin on that El?

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:46 PM

I don't think most of us even know where to begin to get anything passed... we have been brought up with mountains of red tape as if that is the way it has always been

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

@ProfessorBea - student loans and debt society makes people obedient.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:47 PM

We've been really bought off. And we're good at looking the other way.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:47 PM

No no more always been!

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:47 PM

i think the reason some libertarians are prolife is because the non agression principle would not allow you to kill a baby/fetus/zygot/cell

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:47 PM

EL isn't there some type of a fairness doctrine already and why can't it be updated, revised like other doctrines and institutions?

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:47 PM

good point Kimba

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:47 PM★ Spotlighted

The issue with our obedient society is multifaceted

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:47 PM

I skimmed this, didn't read it. Libertarian on climate change: http://libertariangreenhouse.blogspot.com/

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

Also, a lot of libertarians are born-again christians

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM

Damn it! I wanted to be good at something else, like owning technology for productivity and working fewer hours and making more money.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM

I hate that it limits us and makes us feel helpless

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM

That wasn't random, it was about the abortion issue

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

My student loans suck. I can't pay those fuckers. How am i thirty K in the red for sitting in a room with poor lighting and listening to a tenured prof lecture us on thier bright ideas, and oh i had to buy my own texts?! dafuck?

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM

Dawn Adams...is that a problem?

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

@Bea - like lee once said, we are good at noticing sudden changes just not the subtle ones

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM

No more always been! What will be!

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

mystifying to me is how born again types are so pro military

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:49 PM

I was talking to my mom the other day and she said she gets very embarrassed when people she knows are in debt, like deeply embarrassed she says she gets that from her generation, they were taught to be ashamed of themselves for their debt...

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:49 PM

im sorry i mean to say how seemingly so many

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

Not all born again christains are anti abortion either

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

as the economic disparities become larger, people feel the need to be part of something, hence we get ALS ice bucket challenges and other mind numbing bullshit instead of people realizing they need to change the system, not flow with it.

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:49 PM

Tim, I was saying that some LB's may be @ timanti-choice b/c of their religion.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:49 PM

Live like you will never pay off your debt, because we probably won't. (words to live by)

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:49 PM

Why should any company be forced to offer anything?

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:50 PM

@ben - well said

Randall BlanchardAug 26, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

About Libertarianism -- there is an intersection in Jakarta, where there are no traffic-lights, and a there is a fatality every few hours -- that is Libertarianism in action -- NO REGULATION !

Dawn AdamsAug 26, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

StrikeDebt will start paying off some student debts in September

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:50 PM

The new agers may have a solution to the abortion morality thing. I think it's 33 days after conception they say the soul enters the body. It's from some new age channeler so it has to be true.

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:50 PM

Lee: regarding ebola. You're wrong again on liberts. There are some VERY legitimate functions for a libertarians gov't, including protecting the population from disease. Liberts are not anarchists, or satanists.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

rolling jubilee, love strike debt!!

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:50 PM

Libertarian , anarchist , elephant or ass the only important thing is to be a good person

kimba kradelAug 26, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

8 Reasons Why American Young People Don't Do Anything to Protest :: http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20Editorials/2011/August/9%20o/8%20Reasons%20Why%20American%20Young%20People%20Don%27t%20Do%20Anything%20to%20Protest%20By%20Bruce%20E%20Levine.htm

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM

@Paul there will always be outliers, what should be discussed is what the majority of the party stands for

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM

randall i saw what appeared to me to be an insane video of an intersection in Ethiopia like that

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM

Go to Hong Kong, Singapore and Shenzhen - that is libertarinism. Shenzhen is where peeps make iphones for pennies and jump off buildings into suicide preventer nets. nets of love = regulatoin. too late.

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

Michael - one of the most important tenets of the libert platform is the abrupt end to corporate welfare. I might add, LONG before individual welfare.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM

Be a good person and TRY damnit!

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

I have seen too much of this incredibly majestic planet of ours to know that JUSTICE is seriously lacking in the states.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM

michael, how do you say communism is libertarianism?

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM

Somalia...eeek.

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:51 PM

maybe it was really the one you're talking about

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:52 PM

Michael Micklow....you obviously have no understanding of Libertarianism.

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:52 PM

Justin Amash of Michigan, who's the only one fighting the NSA tooth and nail, is the only other "close-to-true" libertarian in DC.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

el, in a free market there would be absolutely no such thing as corporate welfare

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:52 PM

When I say justice I am including accountability in that.

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

Sure yo can El

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

Paul - there are many examples of libertarian principles worldwide which show enormous human rights atrocities - Shenzhen is a pretty good example i.e. Foxconn.

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:53 PM

The value of small community power over national power is the ability to relatively inexpensively pick up and move to another community that works better for your interests.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

el, did you support the bank bailout of 08?

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:53 PM

Corporate Welfare is the direct opposite of free market economics.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:53 PM

because that would not have happened in a free market

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:53 PM

Thanks for the Tawks, revolution-ers. Great to know these will self destruct after we are done.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:54 PM

a free market would have let the banks die, probably with most of the money they were holding for you

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:54 PM

Corporations don't need a govt entity to have a form of welfare. Refer to the robber barons. If they accumulate enough wealth, they can corner the market and control wages.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:54 PM

Anyone else feel like they are argueing over the wallpaper on the titanic

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:54 PM

How can you call it free market when you are taking from one to give to someone else.? For example....farmers get tons of money to grow corn....where does that money come from? It's welath redistribution.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:54 PM

fuck this repub and demo party shit.

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

How do we know what the actual price of goods and services are when they are subsidized by the government with our money?

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:54 PM

"free to screw over other people" market

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

Another point that shows this is not a free market

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

I sense some tension with the two party myth, John.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

ah yes, when you place profit over people, that does happen. we cannot envision a true free market, i'm sorry to say. it doesn't exist in this world

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

Dawn - a lot of libertarians are atheists and anti-theists.

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

yes shaymus

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

Only for the corporate elite. The corporate welfare would not exist in a free market because many of these companies would not be in business

phil chipperAug 26, 2014, 11:55 PM

Lot of fight club references tonight

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

no lee, that's cronyism

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

I love that movie

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

Isn't Argentina going tits-up right now?

Rory SchreiberAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

Libertarianism is the opposite of authoritarianism, regardless of how the right wing have flipped the meaning of the term. Does not mean "chaos". Anarchy, for example, as a concept is highly organized...from the bottom up

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

there are already regulations that tehy are supposed to follow which they don't anyway

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

Q: Is a free market a solution A: No.

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

Furthermore, we need to understand that we live in a post nation-state era. States are operated and owned by transnationals. Libertarianism would only aid this paradigm of corporate state rule.

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

the market would regulate itself. The way it stands now because of corporate welfare and regulations, you or I would never be able to start up a company that could compete with Verizon.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

Yes EL a doctrine that is reviewed by people every so often and included the vote of no confidence.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

in a truly free market, people would stop buying from companies who make bad products and that company woudl have to increase quality or close

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

Libertarianism is not NO regulation. That is a caricature.

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

seriously??

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:56 PM

It sounds like we all need to get together and redefine libertarianism too much variety in the definition...

phil chipperAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

We can create a psychopath identification method with a simple brain scan/ vid combo followed by a quick questionnaire. Then keep those people the fuck away from politics

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

If markets went back to true measures of productivity...

Ben RischAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

hell my fantasy football leagues prove that again and again

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM★ Spotlighted

History has never proven it....because our government hasn't allowed it.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM★ Spotlighted

but yes Lee is right, if the Koch Brothers are funding this effort, why in the world would we want to support it?? :p

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM★ Spotlighted

cronyism is when you give your friends a different set of rules to play by than everyone else. i'm going to research this and get back to you next week

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

What would happen? Collapse...not sure.

Shaymus BogmanAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

Oh great brain scans now Aaarg

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

It must suck to be a libartarian

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

Cronyism is just an alternate pronunciation of "fascism."

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

we're their little show. this tawkers form just another grain of sand to them.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

Maybe we want a collapse.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:58 PM

because when I think Koch, I think honest... haha!

Ben HertzAug 26, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

so we agree that what we are doing now sucks but we dont want to get behind the movement that could reset our system, so what is our other choice?

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

You are not showing factual examples here El

Lucy DyerAug 26, 2014, 11:58 PM

The koch brothers have their hands in more pies than we will ever realise

Paul PhelpsAug 26, 2014, 11:58 PM

El - you CAN get rid of corporate welfare in a free market economy because corporate welfare is a direct contradiction to the very IDEA of a free market economy. The gov't does NOT choose favorites. Corporate welfare is crooked.

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

there are plenty of good movements trying to help our system

Rachel McDonnellAug 26, 2014, 11:58 PM

not just this one

Michael MicklowAug 26, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

The nets of love at Foxconn factory amount to regulation in a libertarian state.

Professor BeaAug 26, 2014, 11:59 PM

I think a tawk is informal, link evidences later?

Tim ThornAug 26, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Not once have we brought a free market anywhere. Our politicians and the ruling elite have feared free market enterprise from day 1.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 26, 2014, 11:59 PM

well thanks again Lee and Eleanor for your time.

Michael MicklowAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

Lee - that is the actual euphemism that Foxconn admin uses!! These jokes write themselves.

Tim ThornAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

Let's take 1 example El...China, please share how that is free market

Shaymus BogmanAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

If the answer to free market is regulation than who regulates

Ben HertzAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

i think there is a lot of misinformation regarding libertarianism, mostly coming from the left and right because they are scared

Paul PhelpsAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

Oh my goodness... there is SO much misunderstanding of how the free market works and what libertarianism is. I BEG you to get someone on here who knows what they are talking about.

Lucy DyerAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

Thanks for the Tawk Lee and Eleanor. And I'm loving the new EP and Redacted Tonight rocks my socks off! Keep it up. See ya next week!

Michael MicklowAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

Tim - The Cayman Islands, where all the corporations are offshoring trillions, is an example of free market. They have zero regulation.

Ben HertzAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

thanks guys for hosting as usual!

Ben RischAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM

have a good evening everyone, ty lee and el

Rachel McDonnellAug 27, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

thanks for the tawk Lee and Eleanor! I learned alot!! :)

Professor BeaAug 27, 2014, 12:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Thanks for hosting this, I enjoyed myself.

Rachel McDonnellAug 27, 2014, 12:01 AM

let's continue trying to find more humane ways of existing.. peace everyone

Shaymus BogmanAug 27, 2014, 12:01 AM

They control all money and it's a free market?

Rory SchreiberAug 27, 2014, 12:01 AM

@Ben Hertz youre right, because it goes against the power structure, hence misleading info

Professor BeaAug 27, 2014, 12:01 AM

Q: What is your definition of a revolutionary today?

Professor BeaAug 27, 2014, 12:01 AM

Oh we are done. Bye!

Shaymus BogmanAug 27, 2014, 12:02 AM

Fearless

Tim ThornAug 27, 2014, 12:02 AM

Sure was a lot of good information discussed by people on both sides who do not have a clue what Libertarianism is about....or free markets.

Ben HertzAug 27, 2014, 12:02 AM

if anyone wants to friend me on facebook, i love to share knowledge with like minds

Shaymus BogmanAug 27, 2014, 12:02 AM

That wAs crazy hard to follow! Fun anyway later all

Professor BeaAug 27, 2014, 12:02 AM

I'd say yes, fearless, also - both informed AND opinionated.

kimba kradelAug 27, 2014, 12:03 AM

I'm still clueless - but great tawk!

Rory SchreiberAug 27, 2014, 12:03 AM

@Ben Hertz -- twitter?

Ben HertzAug 27, 2014, 12:03 AM

no not on twitter

Ben HertzAug 27, 2014, 12:03 AM

sorry lol

jasmine rockAug 27, 2014, 1:25 AM

👌

antonino bongiovanniAug 27, 2014, 3:30 AM

Hola como te llama

antonino bongiovanniAug 27, 2014, 3:32 AM

Hola como te llamas

Bobby RodrigoAug 27, 2014, 3:39 AM

Sorry I missed the conversation. Maybe we can follow up on it another time. I have much to say on this subject. In my view there were some misconceptions about the real Liberty movement.

Bobby RodrigoAug 27, 2014, 3:41 AM

There also was not any mention of the Constitutional Protections and also how Crony Capitalism is distorting the fee market discussion. Be well you two. Till next time. :)

Bobby RodrigoAug 27, 2014, 3:42 AM

Here is a very well written piece. http://www.mintpressnews.com/ferguson-reveals-racists-libertarian-clothing/195788/

خا

خيرالله الكعبيAug 27, 2014, 8:27 AM

خا

خيرالله الكعبيAug 27, 2014, 8:27 AM