RT

Lady Power Birth Tawk

Nov 15, 2013

SM
Stage· 324 messages
Nov 15, 2013

Or: Looking At Modern Birth Culture Through the Gender Lense. Birth educator and visionary Sarah Meyers returns to look more closely at birth in these United States and compare modern, medicalized, male-dominated birth with traditional, woman-centered practices. Let's take back birth!

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

Hello and welcome to everyone.nIf this is your first time, welcome! Log in to participate.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:30 AM

hi!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

Audience members, you can log comments, ask questions and chat amongst yourselves. Be sure to click on the “Who’s Here?” button and click to listen to the other audience members so you can see their comments.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:30 AM

I like being a visionary, that's fun!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

Hi, Sarah!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

How are you?
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Sarah Meyers · 2:30 AM

I am well! I have fantastic music playing, a coffee drink, and you!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

Well, I just drained my wine glass, but I have great music, too.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

So we're ready, then!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:31 AM

lol, great : )
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Sarah Meyers · 2:31 AM

Thank you Jordan!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

Alright, we've met you before, but one more time, tell us who you are.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yeah, visionary is a great descriptor!”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

I concur, JB.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:32 AM

My name is Sarah, I'm an artist, a teacher and a mom. I running a community center, bellydancing and teaching brith classes/cultivating the natural birth community.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:32 AM

hahahaaa
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Sarah Meyers · 2:32 AM

that seems like a lot!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:33 AM

tell us about you becky! you're a different brand of visionary!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Well, I usuall try to make it about you, but I guess it's relevant that I spent some time in Peace Corps working with midwives.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:33 AM

yes it is!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

That opened me up to a lot of feminine rage and made me a vocal supporter of informed birth choice for women.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:34 AM

hahahaa, yup.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:34 AM

Jordan, I actually sleep a lot.... I'm not sure how it all works!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

And Jordan gives a good place to start:
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Sarah Meyers · 2:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Seriously a lot! When do you sleep?”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“So why is infant mortality so insanely high in the US?”

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Sarah Meyers · 2:35 AM

infant mortality is high b/c of lots of things.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“It's shocking to see how we rate against other countries”

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Sarah Meyers · 2:35 AM

diet, mother's health, environmental crap, hospital error, lack of breastfeeding, lowered immune systems, etc.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

It is shocking, especially in this day and age. It is equally shocking how unwilling to see this the medical establishment is. The myth is that we are lucky to be Americans with the best healthcare in the world.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:36 AM

un-needed medical intervention is near the top of the list, but immune system problems are high too.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

All of these things pertain to BIRTH CULTURE.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

And all of that is a serious social problem.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:37 AM

it is, b/c seeing birth as a medical problem sets you up for ALL SORTS of other issues.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

It may sound like a stretch to blame this on a male-centered culture, but all of these symptoms are the result of men making decisions about women's bodies.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:37 AM

true story.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

And birth is only a medical issue when a DOCTOR is in charge.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:38 AM

most brith's are safe. not all mind you, and I know that emergency medical care is needed and should be used.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:38 AM

but most birth's, especially if the mom's and dad's do some basic health care prep, will be fine.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

Agreed. Let's put that out at the beginning. We are NOT anti-hospital, and medicine, anti-science.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“It seems like birth culture is intertwined with so many other cultural and socioeconomic factors”

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Sarah Meyers · 2:39 AM

It used to be a "femenists right" to not have to feel "eve's pain" in labor.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

That's it, Jordan. Birth is no longer primarily about a mother and her offspring, with the father and family and caregiver playing supporting roles.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

Birth is big business.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:39 AM

when femenism should really be about choices, not right/wrong.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

Exactly.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

We can also clear that up right at the beginning. Feminism made some wrong turns by only trying to make it okay for women to be just like men.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

That hasn't elevated the status of the feminine at all.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:41 AM

yes, which is silly, b/c men don't pop out watermelons. we will never be the same as them, much to their disdain : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

LOL
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

For people that like vaginas so much, they don't like the feminine very much at all, do they? :P
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Sarah Meyers · 2:42 AM

I know, right? it's a strange problem.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“That's a very nuanced perspective on feminism, Sara.”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yeah, we're kind of a backwards bunch, us men.”

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Sarah Meyers · 2:42 AM

thanks Jordan. I think swinging the pendulum the opposite way is unhealthy, no matter what you name it.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:43 AM

I choose mid-ground : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

Male bashing will be kept to a minimum, I promise.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

That is also true, Sarah.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

Okay, so you told me a great story earlier today, and I think it's pertinent.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:43 AM

yeah, I like my men. Of course, I surround myself with men who know not to try stupid power plays with me!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:43 AM

it's easier that way.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:44 AM

which story?
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Sarah Meyers · 2:44 AM

the doula story?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

Tell about the midwives and abortion talk.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:44 AM

haha, ok.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:44 AM

man, that was funny for me.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:44 AM

So, apperently, there are a group of Doulas here in texas who do "abortion doula-ing". they accompany a mom to the abortion and support her through it.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

the other women were talking about this while I was out of the room.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

These women are all birth professionals, and I really repsect them, because we all see a need for change.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

(Doulas are birth support personnel)
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

but we do have differeing opinions, as happens when you get more than one person in a room.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:45 AM

I heard the end of the conversation and I got so excited!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:46 AM

I am completly pro-choice.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:46 AM

I have never been in a situation where i've had to abort a baby, but I think that people should choose what happens inside their bodies.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:47 AM

so I said "OH WOW!!! Abrotion doula, that's fantastic! what a cool idea! THose mom's really need support at the point, because by then, they don't ahve anyone holding their hands. They've probably lost family support too!"
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yeah it sounds like offering support in those circumstances is a really good thing”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

(Jordan - right?)
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Sarah Meyers · 2:47 AM

to which they answered with slightly shocked silence.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:48 AM

and then I realized where they all stood on abortion and I laughed deeply and loudly inside my own head, b/c I'd made it so awkward : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

The thing I love about Sarah is she would have said the same thing, even if she'd known they were all pro-life. <3
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Oh they were criticizing the practice?”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

Yup.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:48 AM

so then one says "well, usually it's the family that makes them do it." (which i can see being true of young teens) and so I said "then they REALLY need your support and maybe you can help them find an alternative."
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Sarah Meyers · 2:49 AM

and then everyone sat quietly for a few minutes and thought to themselves.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:49 AM

I'm tired of people ostracizing those women. If they have come so far as to decide that killing their baby is the only good choice, then they don't need your judgement.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:50 AM

they need options and support and hugs.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Yes. Yes. Yes.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“What is it with the anti choice women? I mean, how do they arrive there?”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

I wonder that, too. I think it's a self-righteous (or guilty) stance.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:50 AM

It's the church. They believe that all life is sacred (i do too) and so they think killing the baby is worng. I get where they're coming from, i really do.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:50 AM

but it's not their body.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Nope. And the thing is, life is sacred - but what about the mother'slife?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“My mom was marching in DC for pro choice since I was a kid. I've never been able to understand the other side.”

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Sarah Meyers · 2:51 AM

I have GREAT pregnancies and EASY labors, and I still wouldn't tell some one to do that if they didn't want to. It's their body, not mine, and I think they need to choose.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

But you're an atheist. You have noone pulpit-beating at you every week.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:51 AM

that's so cool Jordan!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:51 AM

that explains a lot about you sir!
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Sarah Meyers · 2:51 AM

lol
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“And what is "life?" Is it murder if I pop a pimple?”

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Sarah Meyers · 2:52 AM

pulpit beating.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:52 AM

yup.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:52 AM

only if that pimple has fingernails.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:52 AM

but we digress.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I mean, there are probably bacterial cultures in that goo...
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Sarah Meyers · 2:52 AM

the point is that it shouldn't be some one else's choice.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

And every time you poo, those poor e. coli go down the chute...
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

Oh, what?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I was talking about poo.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:52 AM

lol
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Look out, dermatologists. They're coming for you next.”

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Sarah Meyers · 2:53 AM

we always talk about poo.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

Well, it's pretty important.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

But so is a woman's right to choose.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

And that's something the pro-choice movement is missing.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:54 AM

best metaphor ever.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

It's missing the support of all the women who work to make sure that women can choose WHERE and HOW they birth, not just IF and WHEN.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yeah, my sister too. Must be a mom thing. (Talking about poo a lot)”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Jordan, you have no idea. I am relieved and happy when my kid poops.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:55 AM

yes, b/c If i got pregnant and some one told me I'd have to be in a hospital with a c-sec no matter what, I'd serriously consider running away or aborting. I get to make the choice on who touches me and my baby.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

Exactly!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

The movements need to unite, but there is an invisible barrier. What do you think that is?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

Because they want the same things.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I mean, I've gone through it with my pets...”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

Kids are pets, make no mistake. :D
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Sarah Meyers · 2:56 AM

b/c midwives help bring babies to life, so to speak, so it's hard for them to consider helping kill them? I guess? I dunno, since I'm not one. That's the feeling I get from them though.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

But you have to learn to accommodate the different views of things. I mean, I get really uncomfortable and sad when I think about having to decide to kill a foetus.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

But I realize that I'm in no position to say I WOULD NEVER - or to tell someone else what she should do.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:58 AM

ditto
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Sarah Meyers · 2:58 AM

b/c I'm an empath, but I'm not a fortune teller : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

So, there. But I also have no "God says..." problem.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“If someone is anti choice and NOT vegetarian, hypocrite?”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

Good point.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:59 AM

God says to love him, love people, and resepcet yourself.
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Sarah Meyers · 2:59 AM

lol Jordan.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

And the thing is, we're all hypocrites to some degree. So, we have to find our ways as best we can...and take ourselves and everyone else with a grain of salt. And maybe be kind about it.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:00 AM

be kind about it? WHAT?!?!?! (j/k)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I have a Jane Says problem. I can't get the song out of my head....”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Thanks, Jordan. :/
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Yay! Since we have two guys, let's get back to how the birth culture is male-dominated.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

Alright, so in the States, when a woman thinks she's pregnant, who does she go see? A doctor.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Tryin' took me a while to catch up... my daughter had a knowledge bowl tonight...”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Lol, Rich. My son just had a meltdown. I'll take knowledge bowl next time!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:02 AM

yeah, I didn't beleive I was pregnant until I saw an OB the first time, b/c I was so under-educated.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:02 AM

and that was after multiple pee sticks. it's sad
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Yeah. I mean, when I was in Honduras, I was supposed to be teaching midwives safety and sanitation that was taught to me by doctors...
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

But then my REAL education began.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:03 AM

I had all the classic symptoms, but I didn't trust my body yet.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Those ladies knew so much and had sone so much with so little...and now the entire medical establishment was trying to devalue them and run them completely out of business and their social stations.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:04 AM

that's really offensive to me. I know that there are things that you got to share with them that were very useful, but how doctors talk down to midwives is gross.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

I like pee sticks. It tells me whether to make an appointment or not. :P
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Are you guys pro or anti home pregnancy tests?”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

Yes. Doctors talk down to midwives the world over.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

They do it here, too.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:05 AM

pee sticks seem to work, so that's cool. I just didn't know enough to trust them.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

SO, you go see a doctor, and he tells you how it's going to be.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

He runs you through a series of tests. He pokes your vag.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:05 AM

yeah. and if you sway from the norm, they mock you and demean you.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

(But not in an awesome way)
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Sarah Meyers · 3:06 AM

lol becky.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:06 AM

nope, not awesome.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:06 AM

and this isn't all OBs or doctors, it's just the majority, which is sad.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:06 AM

It makes me sad for them that they are so insecure.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

Yes, they do. The OB I went to see stooped to lies and overt intimidation when I told him I was considering a midwife.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:07 AM

if you can't handle consrtuctive criticism, you need to have a long look in the mirror.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

The OB told me that he "did not allow" women to come in for labor without being hooked up to an IV.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Yeah, downplaying experience with a 'formal' education is a crappy way to treat people...”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

The shitties part is that male doctors who can never experience birth just won't ever know as much as a woman. Period.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:08 AM

that's bullshit becky. there's no need for that. there are compromises that can be made.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Do you think there will be fewer male Gynecologists in the future?”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

SO they sort of have a Napoleon complex.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:08 AM

not until doctors are taken off the God pedestal.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

I hope so. There is a groundswell in the natural birht movement. but there's also push-back from the medical establishment.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

The national council of OBs wrote this year that they won't teach how to deliver breech births anymore. So those will forever and always be c-sections from now on, because doctors will be ignorant.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:10 AM

I think it doesn't matter what sex they are though, they are all trained the same.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Yes - and that goes back to the wrong turn of feminism.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:10 AM

omg, that's so stupid.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Female doctors are just as dickish as males.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“I mention chiropractic to a doctor, and the scoff at me...then the get the third degree from me...”

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Sarah Meyers · 3:10 AM

I'd willingly take a male midwife over a female OB.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

Rich, I have the same problem. So I just go to the Chiro now. He or the internet will have a solution and won't be a dick. ;D
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

Yes. Midwives are NOT medical establishment.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

It's a completely different model of care.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

Medicine is Doctor-centered.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

Midwifery really is woman-centered.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“they both have their place....”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

They both do have their place, Rich. Not all doctors are bad. I just haven't had a good one in a long, long time. So I'm bitter.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:13 AM

it's a basic disdain for the earth and the feminine really. Doctors aren't taught nutrition either. Most health problems can be solved by a change in diet. (again I say most, not all)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

But, when I shot rusty metal into my arm with the lawn mower, I went to the ER. Appropriate. My normal birth WAS NOT an occasion for a hospital visit.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

That is very true, Sarah. A good way to put it.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Mutual respect would be great. And that's what I fought for in Honduras. And that's what midwives are fighting for here.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

I don't understand how I can do better for my health care with groceries than a "god-like" doctor who went to school for a billion years and will never be able to pay back his loans. but that's how it is.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

But it's an old problem - women have to work harder and be better to be considered equal.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

It's bullshit.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Nutrition is woefully misunderstood across our entire culture. I learned that from Rebecca!”

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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

it's hard to be a girl : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Agreed... nutrition is huge!”

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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

but, it's b/c everyone is jealous of our vaginas, b/c they're SO COOL!!!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

that's the main prblem I think.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:15 AM

case closed.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:16 AM

*problem.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

Jordan? Thoughts on that?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Legs closed!”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

Hahahahaha!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

So, birth culture is male-centered, but it wasn't always this way.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:17 AM

being anyone is hard here, b/c of all the mis-information.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

It began in the 50s, with "better living thorough science" and all that.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:17 AM

Matt makes fun of me for all the tabs I have open all the time : )
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Sarah Meyers · 3:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Yeah not being able to multi-task with 2,143 browsers open sucks for us guys....”

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Sarah Meyers · 3:17 AM

oh science, you're a double edged sword.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

That's so true - the misinformation has been a part of our culture since Colombus hit land. No kidding.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:18 AM

don't even get me started on that guy. Columbus was an ass of fantastic proportions.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

And in the 50s, men didn't know jack about women's bodies or birth, but they decided that doctors were the only people capable of delivering babies.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:19 AM

did i tell you about the picture of do it yourself forcepts?
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Sarah Meyers · 3:19 AM

oh man, those didn't catch on.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

Ew! WTH?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

LOL
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Sarah Meyers · 3:19 AM

it actually started in the 1700s becky, when doctors started happening.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Well, I guess that's a good point. Hysteria and all that.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:20 AM

that's when they started attending births with blindfolds, b/c they can't look at naked women.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:20 AM

stupid and prudish all at the same time.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Did you know that the clitoris wasn't discovered officially until the 90s?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

That's how far behind the curve dudes are about women.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:20 AM

what? I discovered it before that....... HAHAHAHAAAA
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Sarah Meyers · 3:21 AM

and so did the french.....
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

No, the 1990s. True story.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:21 AM

and the indians......
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“WHAT???? I discovered it in 1989!!!!”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

Hahahahahahahaaaa!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:21 AM

good lord, the english are so behind.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

Right? Because they knew about it in India when they wrote Kama Sutra, for sure. ;)
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Sarah Meyers · 3:22 AM

it's jsut sad. I would go to a guy and be like " hey, I know exactly how your body works and how you should act and what's going to feel good to you, so let me make these decisions for you".
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Sarah Meyers · 3:22 AM

that just doesn't make sense....
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

Right?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“They cut them off in Africa don't they?”

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Sarah Meyers · 3:23 AM

so having a doctor and nurse laugh at me when I said I didn't want drugs and wanted to feel Aria's birth was really offensive to me.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

That happens, yes. Or skin is sewed shut over them so they're less accessible/sensitive. It's so men can own women.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

That is offensive.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

yes Rich, they do, sort of, but's it's a whole thing. it's very hard to make it stop.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

Laughing? Really?
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

and it leads to harder labor (b/c of the scar tissue) and infections
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

and incontenece, b/c of the hard labors tearing things up.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

yes, becky, they laughed at me.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:24 AM

so i got a midwife : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

I'm all for nonviolence, but that makes me want to pound somebody...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

I mean, not the midwife. :)
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Sarah Meyers · 3:25 AM

well, they were of the opinion that no one should "suffer through labor".
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Sarah Meyers · 3:25 AM

which is sweet and all, but you don't have to suffer.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

Yeah. They're really pushy about that.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

I didn't suffer. It was Crazy hard, I thought all my organs were going to pop out, but i didn't suffer, strange as that may sound.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

it's all about education and a support group.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

My MIL told me about what she went through when she had my husband and it is so infuriating. She delivered with no drugs and the doctor was pissed. So he shot her up with demerol and she didn't get those first few hours of bonding.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

WHAT?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

And my SIL had to go back to work THE NEXT DAY.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:26 AM

after the birth, he gave her demorol?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

WTF is the matter with a culture that allows either of those things to happen?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

Yeah, it does.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“That borders on criminal”

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Sarah Meyers · 3:27 AM

she had to go back to work a day after having a baby? what the hell? she shouldn't have even been standing at that point.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:28 AM

He had to sew up her tear, but she was in the shaky period. He didn't want to wait, so he shot her up so he could leave.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:28 AM

that's rude.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:28 AM

he could have come back later.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:28 AM

like, 10 minutes later.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

Yes - it doesn't take long. But he was mad because he hadn't had control.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“You guys need to creat a TV drama about a midwife. That's the only way to educate Americans.”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

Haha, Jordan! There is one, but it's not modern.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:29 AM

ego trip man, that's so sad. what a tiny soul he must ahve had.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:30 AM

"call the midwife" is beautiful!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

I hope he choked on something shortly thereafter.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:30 AM

I love that show, but it's post-war england (i think)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

Yes.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

So, women face a lot of trouble in the hospital, but midwives face a lot of trouble, too.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

Many doctors are actively anti-midwife.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:31 AM

breech, twins, premies, skin-to-skin, unhealthy moms, they've got it all on that show!!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Cool. I assume it's about thru the Telly?”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

JB, Netflix.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:31 AM

netflix
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Sarah Meyers · 3:31 AM

yes, I got kicked out of my OB after telling them i was going to use a midwife.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:31 AM

I got a fancy letter and everything!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:32 AM

there are so many pregnant women, they really need to calm down and just focus on what they are good at.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:32 AM

Midwives are, in my opinion, better-educated than doctors at this point because they can manage breech births and multiples without surgical intervention, and they also can help with breastfeeding and bonding. Doctors cannot, at this point.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:33 AM

so it seems.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Obviously they were insecure Sarah!”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

That's true, and last time we mentioned that maybe a noisy, fluorescent-lit, machiney hospital room isn't the best place to calm the fuck down.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:34 AM

hahahaa, true.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

Especially when someone asks you every 5 minutes if you want that epidural yet.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:34 AM

b/c you do need to calm the fuck down to have a baby, and having random peopel measuring your cervix isn't super conducive to that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Agreed Rebecca, they are more in tune, and the medical community is sooooo JEALOUS!”

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Sarah Meyers · 3:35 AM

maybe if more doctors were on La Leche Leauge facebook groups......
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Sarah Meyers · 3:35 AM

that's where I learn a lot : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

Yeah, I was not a fan of the idea of any random nurse who was on duty having the right to touch my junk. That's mine, I INVITE you to touch it, thanks.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:35 AM

get on there, you doctors!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:36 AM

I've had two kids and my cervix was checked in labor once.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:36 AM

Literally once.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:36 AM

how cool is that?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

Really nice. Non-invasion. Whew.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“I may have a run in soon Rebecca... my body dammit!”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:37 AM

Thanks for being here, Rich.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Thanks Jordan, I try to do the best I can, but they teach me everyday to be better”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:37 AM

We should probably wrap up. There is just so much to talk about, the thread gets lost.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:37 AM

I love that attitude Rich, that's the way we should all be.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:37 AM

oh yeah! red tent real quick.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:38 AM

everyone go look up the "red tent" movement!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

So, I do want to ask how you think we can go about bringing the pro-choice/pro-Birth Choice crowd together to work for better outcomes?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

Oh, yeah, Sarah, tell about that! I forgot to ask you.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:38 AM

it's a new support system for women who want to be more in touch with their bodies and souls and are withdrawing from regular american relationships.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:38 AM

it's super cool.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:39 AM

I think we need to just keep talking Becky, in life and online, to help people see that it's not about death, it's about chooisng what is right for your body, your baby, your family.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:39 AM

And that's what matters.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:40 AM

so maybe we can do a red tent talk soon and maybe we can find some midwives and interview them on pro-choise stuff : )
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:40 AM

Yes! Let's do that!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:40 AM

*choice
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:40 AM

cool.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:40 AM

goodnight guys, I really apprecite you being here and having an open perspective!!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:40 AM

Thanks, Rich and Jordan, for being here. Please don't take my male-bashing seriously. I actually like men.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:41 AM

hahaha
SM

Sarah Meyers · 3:41 AM

most of the time : )
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Sarah Meyers · 3:41 AM

they are cute. men in general i mean.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

Thanks, Sarah. You are great.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:41 AM

especially ones who care about other people.
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Sarah Meyers · 3:41 AM

you are too Becky!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:41 AM

peace out lady power!!!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:42 AM

Please come back and educate me on the Red Tent movement. I know very little about it. Except I read the book.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:42 AM

Good night, all!
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Sarah Meyers · 3:42 AM

good night all you cool people!