JA

Led Zeppelin Stole Stairway?

May 21, 2014

JF
Stage· 112 messages
May 21, 2014

The greatest rock anthem ever written has come under scrutiny recently. Surviving members of the 70's band Spirit have filed suit against the megaband Led Zeppelin, claiming that the rockers heisted the guitar intro to Stairway to Heaven. Join JD and Jenn as they discuss the controversial claim!!

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:29 PM

Hello Tami...didn't expect you...
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:29 PM

Jenn should be here momentarily.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:30 PM

Okay, so the deal is...
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:31 PM

Yeah...I was in the wrong Tawk. Ready for my #winewednesday, I guess! lol
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:31 PM

Hi, Tami!
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:31 PM

LOL...I hear that
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:31 PM

So...there is actually a suit filed against Led Zeppelin
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:31 PM

claiming that they stole the intro to Stairway to Heaven
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:32 PM

So, today's Tawk is about (dun dun dunnnn) plaigiarism. Appropriate for a bunch of editorial types, I suppose. lol
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:32 PM

the lines really blur in music
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:32 PM

There a short-but-cool video here that kind of runs the songs together... http://www.people.com/article/led-zeppelin-sued-stairway-to-heaven-plagiarism
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:33 PM

with sampling etc, it's difficult to sustain
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:33 PM

Where to draw the line, I think, is the impossible question to answer.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:33 PM

I found this video of the song "Taurus" by Spirit.... http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/05/20/314256004/led-zeppelin-sued-over-stairway-to-heaven-guitar-line
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:34 PM

Well, here's the story w/Led Zeppelin and Stairway to Heaven...
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:34 PM

Plus it's been, like, 40 years...why the heck are they just suing now? It's obviously more about the money than the music. Especially since Richard California has been dead for quite some time.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:34 PM

It's Randy California...my bad
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:34 PM

Woops! lol
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:34 PM

Here's what is happening...
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:35 PM

California was the guitarist for a band called Spirit. ON an early tour Zeppelin opened for them in 1968
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:36 PM

California always claimed that the song caught Jimmy Page's attention
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:36 PM

The song "Taurus"
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:36 PM

was released in 1968 and is very similar to the 1971 release of Stairway to Heaven
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:36 PM

Hey! Steve's here!
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:37 PM

Hey Steve!!
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:37 PM

why the suit hasn't been filed until now is due to copyrights on "Taurus"...
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:37 PM

Do you think there's enough similarity between Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven and Spirit's Taurus to warrant the lawsuit? This question is for all of you.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:37 PM

ownership of the song changed hands recently and the song now belongs to the surviving band members
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:38 PM

They are filing suit.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:38 PM

It's reported that they had bugged California to file suit for decades but he felt "honored" that Page stole from him.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:38 PM

Is Randy California the one who wrote the song? Because then, if he never found it necessary to sue, I find the point mute.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:39 PM

Ahhh...now there's a true musician!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:39 PM

Just get the music heard!
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:39 PM

right on...in addition to this is another Stairway connection
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:39 PM

If you recall, Jimmy Page was a Yardbird at one time.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:40 PM

That's actually a point I was pondering - would the song ever have escalated to the iconic point it did (California's riff) had it NOT been adopted by Led Zeppelin in Stairway to Heaven?
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:41 PM

There is a song by Chocolate Watch Band, who toured with the Yardbirds when Page was with them, "And She's Lonely" that sounds very similar to another part of Stairway to Heaven...
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:41 PM

I see (or rather, hear) the similarities too, Steve. But at what point, do you think, it becomes plagiarism? With music, it's a pretty fuzzy line. I know the musician in me is inspired to write music from a variety of sources...
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:42 PM

Could it be that one of the most amazing guitarists of all time could have "sampled" Stairway to Heaven from other musicians?
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:42 PM

...not the least of which is another piece of music. I wouldn't copy it outright, but I can definitely say that one piece of music can inspire another.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Steve Hoffman

“so many parts of songs seem very similar to me”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:42 PM

That's why it's so difficult in music...
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:43 PM

Feel better now Tami?
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:44 PM

Think about KId rock...he's all but playing Sweet Home Alabama
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:44 PM

and Werewolves of London at the same time
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:44 PM

That's interesting, JD. And another point that bears discussion, I think. If Jimmy Page did, in fact, "sample" Stairway to Heaven, is it not also relevant that these pieces of sampled music became their own creation entirely when combined together.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:44 PM

...forming the iconic Stairway to Heaven.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tamara Lee Day

“Okay - are Jenn and JD here? Am I not set up right? I'm only seeing responses from you Steve.”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:45 PM

That school of thought is valid...
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:45 PM

Right? That Kid Rock song drives me crazy because after the intro I'm all set to sing Sweet Home Alabama...and then it's not. :(
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:45 PM

If we can sue for a "piece" of the song...I've said the word "heaven" a lot...where's my cut?
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:45 PM

Refresh Tami. I was wondering why she was so quiet!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:46 PM

Did you know you're breaking the law every time you sing Happy Birthday if you don't file and pay royalties to the author?
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:47 PM

And how in the world would you break down a $$ value on a "piece" of Stairway to Heaven???
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:47 PM

ONe step at a time...lol
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:48 PM

I'm certainly not defending plagiarism. You KNOW that! lol. But still, there comes a point when people think in a similar way, and that can create similar words, art forms, music, etc. in an innocently organic fashion, I believe.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:49 PM

as a song writer myself, I understand the influence music can have on another song
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:49 PM

LOL! Oh, you with your silly Led Zeppelin jokes.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:49 PM

I've been inspired by specific songs but what came from it was original...I think?\
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:49 PM

Right, JD - and, in some respects, that is a beautiful part of song writing, is it not?
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:49 PM

Exactly.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:49 PM

Our subconscious can hold on to stuff for a long time
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:50 PM

Well, in that case, if you inadvertently created something a little TOO similar to a piece your heard some time in your past, would you consider it plagiarism?
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:51 PM

ON the other hand, part of being a musician is learning from others...
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:51 PM

Welcome back, Tami! We'd love to get your take on this whole Led Zeppelin Stairway to Heaven plagiarism thing...
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:51 PM

I"ve stolen licks from guitarists, phrases from lyrics but created an entire song from it.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:52 PM

And the best songs are usually a collaborative effort in some aspect, at least by the time they are finished/polished/recorded.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Steve Hoffman

“good point JD”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tamara Lee Day

“Okay - refreshed and can see all now. Sorry - was multitasking.”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:52 PM

Probably just like Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin did with Stairway to Heaven...just not quite as successfully
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Steve Hoffman

“I was going to ask you both that question”

JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Steve Hoffman

“with both of you being song writers”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:53 PM

Change of ownership of the Spirit song "Taurus" happened recently Tami...
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:53 PM

New owners are suing
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:54 PM

Yeah, Tami - the writer of the song in question, Randy California, claimed to be honored that Led Zeppelin would use a piece of his music. He's since passed on & now the rest of the band, Spirit, is suing Led Zeppelin.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tamara Lee Day

“Okay - well. I'm not entirely up to speed and I'm trying to catch up on what's been said but have probably missed things. Here's my take on what I know.”

JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:54 PM

That's pretty much how I feel about it, too.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:55 PM

It's not about the music. It's about the money. Now, granted, Stairway to Heaven would be a pretty nice pie of which to have a piece, but still...
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:55 PM

The problem is that the statute of limitations on music is 100 years
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tamara Lee Day

“Stairway to Heaven is how old? It's been played in millions of movies, school dances (junior high for me - last slow dance of the night - always awkward when it gets fast at teh end)...and NOW they're suiing?????”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:55 PM

They could wait another 60 years and still sue for something
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:56 PM

I think I got a piece of pie to Stairway!!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:56 PM

Steve's got Spirit playing in the background. Good stuff.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tamara Lee Day

“This kind of thing frankly pisses me off. Maybe I'm missing details but I get tired of people just one day waking up and deciding they need to make a buck so hey...let sue Led Zeppelin because their majorly famous song sounds a little like ours.”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:56 PM

they were a relatively regionally successful band in 1967 & 68
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:57 PM

And, again - what in the world do you sue for in an instance like this Led Zeppelin lawsuit? They can't say that Stairway to Heaven is theirs - only a small portion of the music. How in the world do you divide that up?
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:57 PM

Oh, I know this song!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:57 PM

I got a line on you babe!
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 5:57 PM

Truth be told, you can't.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 5:58 PM

Well, it should be interesting to see how this whole thing goes. What do you think the Led Zeppelin guys think about it all? Do they just sit back and laugh and say, "Ha! YOU should've opened for US!"
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:00 PM

My overall take on this: Led Zeppelin or Jimmy Page didn't steal Stairway to Heaven...they used the influences of other musicians to inspire the greatest rock anthem ever written...I would be proud like Randy California was.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:00 PM

right, Steve. And that should be the deciding factor, I think. If Led Zeppelin had California's blessing to use his riff - or even a slight variation thereof - in Stairway to Heaven, then the rest of this whole issue is just pointless.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:00 PM

Me too. ROCK ON!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Steve Hoffman

“California was thrilled that Page used part of a song he wrote...that was enough for him”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:01 PM

Well it seems that the lady now knows that the stairway is actually NOT FOR SALE!!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:02 PM

There's an old band who's sure all that glitters is gold, and they're suing for a stairway to Heaven.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:02 PM

They shouldnv
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:03 PM

They should've run it through Copyscape...
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:03 PM

HA...copyscape for music
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:03 PM

All right...thank you all for a wonderful tawk about one of the most important issues of the day!
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:04 PM

Lord knows Zep takes priority over the VA controversy for sure!!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:04 PM

Great Tawk guys. Now what have we learned? Don't plagiarize. Don't sue Led Zeppelin all willy nilly. Be honored, like the humble and gracious Randy California if Jimmy Page ever decides to "sample" your riff for an iconic rock song...
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tamara Lee Day

“Agreeing with the Jennifers. It's crazy to me that people can claim a combination of notes as their own. And if there is a unique melody that is being used and the original composer supports the use of it, there really isn't a big deal being made.”

JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:05 PM

Agreed...Randy California had it right.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:05 PM

Oh! And don't eat tainted ground beef at your Memorial Day BBQs!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:05 PM

Random. But important. :)
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:05 PM

Music is math so how indeed, Tami Day.
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:06 PM

Truth Steve!!! The "real" musicians can dig it...it's the greed of the business that ruins things.
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:06 PM

Well, here's to the music, then. Keep it real, peeps!
JA

Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle · 6:06 PM

I could tawk about this all day long peeps but I need to sign off. Rock on!!
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:07 PM

Rock on!! But not with a "stolen" riff...
JF

Jennifer Finnell · 6:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Steve Hoffman

“California played with Jimi Hendrix when he was 15, you can't tell me he didn't take a few riffs from Jimi. He was an great guitarist in his own right”