Katie Klabusich

Host

Let Me Be Child-Free!

Apr 10, 2014·99 visitors

Leah Torres

Cohost

Stage· 208 messages

Apr 10, 2014

Some of us don't want kids. There -- I said it! Some of us are even sure about this choice. So, why, in a developed country with "the best" healthcare, is it so hard to access optional sterilization?nDr. Leah Torres is joining me again to discuss OB/GYN guidelines, why this request is so challenging to deliver and why the hurtles are problematic and, at times, unhealthy for the patient.

Katie Klabusich · 5:00 PM

Hi, everyone! Thanks for coming to "Let Me Be Child-Free!" with the fantastic Dr. Leah Torres! (new ProTip: there’s a mobile app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tawkers/id791417999?mt=8 )

Katie Klabusich · 5:00 PM

Pretty excited to see the discussion already started. ;)

Katie Klabusich · 5:01 PM

Just a reminder -- if you don't see comments loading, just refresh your browser. Once in a while the tawkers site likes the extra attention.

Katie Klabusich · 5:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“howdy”

Katie Klabusich · 5:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“hello everyone.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:01 PM

Real quick, if you’re new to Tawkers, Leah and I will be chatting on the left. And if you’re signed in (it only takes two minutes to set up a profile!), you can add comments/questions on the right. Interrupt any time with questions!

Leah Torres · 5:01 PM

I've always known I wanted to be child-free-- it just took me a bit to let go of fearing being public about it

Katie Klabusich · 5:02 PM

Huzzah! A doctor who's open about it!

Katie Klabusich · 5:02 PM

Don't forget to use the “arrow” icons to share comments on social media & ask people you know will dig the discussion to join in.

Katie Klabusich · 5:02 PM

Leah Torres · 5:02 PM

As a woman, I've found a stigma attached to "I don't want kids"

Katie Klabusich · 5:03 PM

Me too! People either don't believe me, think I'll change my mind, or that I've convinced myself simply b/c I'm not "settled down" (something else I don't particularly want).

Katie Klabusich · 5:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“Mind if I ask why you don't want kids?”

Katie Klabusich · 5:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“Very excited for this discussion! Thanks for doing this, Katie. I am in my mid-30s, married, and have never wanted children. I knew that about myself since I was a kid. It's just not something I want to do, or feel that I have to do with my life.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:04 PM

Melissa's comment is totally why I wanted to talk to Leah especially about this issue.

Leah Torres · 5:04 PM

I don't want to change my lifestyle, sacrifice career goals or other opportunities in order to care for children the way they need and deserve

Katie Klabusich · 5:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kate Collins

“I have been asking for a hysterectomy (for MEDICAL reasons) and have yet to find a doctor who will even consider it because "I might want kids someday," except wait, I won't.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“The "you might want kids" someday is total BS and is not a doctor's business. It's your body.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:04 PM

She's a hero of mine, super outspoken and empathetic/understanding of her patients' needs whatever they may be.

Katie Klabusich · 5:04 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“I agree, why is your choice not even considered like they know you better then you know yourself.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:04 PM

I hear that reason a lot. Personally, I'm in Melissa's camp -- I simply don't want them. Kids should be an affirmative choice.

Leah Torres · 5:04 PM

Re hysterectomy--

Katie Klabusich · 5:05 PM

That shouldn't be the default position.

Leah Torres · 5:06 PM

It's major surgery that I won't jump into offering/performing. That said --

Katie Klabusich · 5:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“I just don't want them. Never have. Don't want the responsibility. It has never innately appealed to me.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hey all!”

Katie Klabusich · 5:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“Hi Everyone - at work with headset on!”

Katie Klabusich · 5:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“There is so much pressure from other people when you announce you don't have kids. They are somehow super offended by my choice.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“And in fairness, a lot of people do change their mind. But, it's your decision to make.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“Sounds like a good dr.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:07 PM

A hysterectomy isn't the only sterilization option (which I'm sure Leah is getting to). The National Institute of Health has some solid info if people want to read more about the procedural options/risks/benefits: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti

Katie Klabusich · 5:07 PM

Sorry -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2492586/

Katie Klabusich · 5:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“People have a right to be responsible for their own choices. If someone wants it reversed, it's not the dr's fault or problem.”

Leah Torres · 5:07 PM

I counsel with risks on major surgery in mind, not fertility (tho that shld be a consideration, not a deciding factor)

Katie Klabusich · 5:08 PM

Right. The world would be a much different place if people who didn't want kids were able to make sure they didn't!

Katie Klabusich · 5:08 PM

The reason this topic came up now in particular is that I had a friend who has had trouble accessing sterilization. She feels the way Melissa does --

Katie Klabusich · 5:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“I have one child and it is a HUGE commitment - not something to be taken lightly or "talked into". If you do not feel like you want to have kids, or get married, or buy a house.... then DON'T”

Leah Torres · 5:09 PM

Thank you all for the kind words

Leah Torres · 5:09 PM

If I miss something, pls call my attn to it again

Katie Klabusich · 5:09 PM

-- but even after multiple failed birth control methods, she is still unable to have a permanent procedure.

Katie Klabusich · 5:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“But any major surgery warrants consultation. I totally get that. With sterilization, you get counseled, you pay, you have it done. It should be relatively that simple.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:10 PM

So, Dr. Torres, why is it that patients have SO much trouble accessing sterilization if it's what they want?

Leah Torres · 5:10 PM

With proper counseling re regret, I'll perform sterilization on those who want it

Leah Torres · 5:10 PM

Fear of regret I think, Katie

Leah Torres · 5:11 PM

It's a paternalistic approach to medicine that I fight againsy

Katie Klabusich · 5:11 PM

As a repro activist/advocate who fights patriarchal bullshit a lot, part of me has trouble thinking the entirety of the medical community is beneficent.

Katie Klabusich · 5:11 PM

Yeah. that was my thought.

Leah Torres · 5:11 PM

There's an increased risk of regret in women under 30 yrs old, but that's not a contraindication

Katie Klabusich · 5:12 PM

The NIH info I went through said even with the "risk factors" for regret, only about 10-12% experience it.

Katie Klabusich · 5:12 PM

(being under 30 being the biggest risk factor)

Leah Torres · 5:12 PM

There are also reversible alternatives (IUD/implant) to consider. Those are also non surgical. I take into consideration risks of surgery/anesthesia as well

Katie Klabusich · 5:12 PM

How would you counsel a patient considering sterilization?

Katie Klabusich · 5:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“People need to mind their own business is what it all comes down to,”

Katie Klabusich · 5:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“After we had one child, husband had vasectomy and we got sh*t for THAT! You GOTTA have ANOTHER one!”

Katie Klabusich · 5:13 PM

I want folks thinking about it to be able to determine if the counseling is appropriate to ensure their preparedness & paternalistic doctoring.

Katie Klabusich · 5:13 PM

**whether it's appropriate or paternalistic

Katie Klabusich · 5:13 PM

(I LOVE MY IUD -- just for the record. ;] )

Leah Torres · 5:14 PM

I would offer non-surgical options as well to avoid anesthesia/operative risks, first. If she still wants it, I counsel on regret. If she still wants it, I schedule her for surgery.

Katie Klabusich · 5:14 PM

Kelly -- we're specifically discussing female access. Men have no restrictions. Men can just make an appointment & have it done.

Leah Torres · 5:14 PM

Vasectomy is nice, but doesn't work if the woman changes partners

Katie Klabusich · 5:14 PM

Exactly.

Katie Klabusich · 5:15 PM

Christine -- that's precisely why I wanted to chat with Leah. There is a way -- just as in abortion counseling -- to be compassionate and informative without being a bully or persuading.

Leah Torres · 5:15 PM

So I offer that as an option, but I always have the woman's autonomy at the forefront

Katie Klabusich · 5:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“See Leah, that policy makes SENSE.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:15 PM

What kind of questions should be expect at an appointment where they're discussing sterilization?

Katie Klabusich · 5:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Christine Cugino

“I see the counseling as paternalistic. Other life choices don't seem to go through that much scrutiny as sterilization.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:17 PM

**be expected -- yikes, my typing is awful today.

Katie Klabusich · 5:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“I knew I didn't want kids from the time I was 4 or 5. Truly. I have never wavered.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:18 PM

I didn't realize it was an affirmative choice until I was 30.

Katie Klabusich · 5:18 PM

No kidding.

Katie Klabusich · 5:19 PM

The same way you don't consider that you'll graduate high school, get a job, buy a house, etc. Then it hit me -- wait, this is my life. Marriage + kids = my choice.

Leah Torres · 5:20 PM

Questions should be typical: medical history, surgical history...

Katie Klabusich · 5:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“My daughter says she does not want children and I think that, at 16, I already had the maternal desire to have kids.”

Leah Torres · 5:20 PM

If you feel your doc is being judgmental or paternalistic, go to a different doc

Katie Klabusich · 5:20 PM

That's a great point. So many people don't realize they should doctor shop, essentially.

Leah Torres · 5:21 PM

Brb

Katie Klabusich · 5:21 PM

Now, there are areas where the choices are limited, but you should still demand to be head and respected.

Katie Klabusich · 5:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“Society as a whole still sees women as birthing machines. People are scared when we she against performing our so-called reproductive duties.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:22 PM

I actually found my new docs via Angie's List. The subscription wasn't that expensive and it was a good starting point b/c the reviews are fair and extensive.

Katie Klabusich · 5:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“I'm sure the number of doctors who will perform voluntary sterilization procedures for women is EXTREMELY limited. Are there resources where women can easily find one so they can avoid some of the drama?”

Katie Klabusich · 5:23 PM

Leah & I chatted about this last time -- (she had to grab a call real quick b/c doctor, lol), but you can ask questions on the phone before the appointment.

Katie Klabusich · 5:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“Good idea to look there, Katie.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:23 PM

Places like Angie's Lists will let you email with a provider; you can gage whether they're listening or the practice is inclusive.

Katie Klabusich · 5:24 PM

Yeah, that's my issue, Melissa. Clearly it isn't just concern about patients changing their minds that's happening here. Patients with medical conditions STILL have trouble accessing care.

Katie Klabusich · 5:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kate Collins

“Don't feel like "you might want kids someday" is a valid reason to not do this.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kate Collins

“Sorry for jumping in and out- no doctor has been able I find a solution and I have periods that last almost a year. It has cost me apartments, the ability to wok, social life and romantic life. I have run the gauntlet of treatments and tests. ”

Katie Klabusich · 5:24 PM

If you're in a rural area with fewer options, this is a really hard thing.

Katie Klabusich · 5:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“There shouldn't be drama but there IS. My OB-GYN freaked out when I brought up the word "hysterectomy" as a possoble solution to a medical problem I'm having. I'd hate to see what she would do if I asked her about a voluntary procedure.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:24 PM

Someone asked about cost a while back.

Katie Klabusich · 5:25 PM

The younger you have the procedure, the more cost effective it is. There are sterilization procedures for women that can be done in an office, so it doesn't have to be as invasive as a hysterectomy.

Katie Klabusich · 5:26 PM

Christine -- I read a little of that at the NIH site; while there is some of that, it doesn't seem to be the biggest reason.

Katie Klabusich · 5:26 PM

Consent forms handle most of that.

Katie Klabusich · 5:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“Costs related to one procedure vs. a lifetime of birth control”

Katie Klabusich · 5:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Christine Cugino

“I've read a lot of doctors get sued after a woman changes her mind about being sterilized. Maybe the fear of a legal suit stops many doctors.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:26 PM

Slate did a series last year of people's Child-Free stories -- http://ow.ly/uUXqo

Katie Klabusich · 5:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“How can it even be legal to sue a Dr. for that reason? This world is so screwed up.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kate Collins

“That said, I also know I don't want kids. I never have. There are other things I want out of life.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“Assuming birth control is the patient's reason for sterilization”

Katie Klabusich · 5:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“I think you could just have a contract drawn up for that christine.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:27 PM

Monica Trombley’s essay talks about her willingness to sign ANYTHING to have it done. She's even a lawyer. Eventually, she had to lie to a doctor to access the procedure.

Katie Klabusich · 5:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“true that melissa”

Katie Klabusich · 5:27 PM

The expense-cost/benefit is super subjective; it depends on your insurance.

Katie Klabusich · 5:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“totally gunna read that katie.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:28 PM

There isn't much data yet, now that The ACA requires coverage of birth control. That skews the expensive option to sterilization -- which would be considered "optional" and probably not be covered, at least 100%.

Katie Klabusich · 5:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Christine Cugino

“Looks like a great article, thanks!”

Katie Klabusich · 5:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“I just skimmed that article. Craziness. People are INSANE.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:29 PM

Because you're more practical, over there, Lucy.

Katie Klabusich · 5:29 PM

Unwanted children are expensive.

Katie Klabusich · 5:29 PM

NIH OBGYN US Natl Library of Medicine describes sterilization as "safe, convenient, easy, and highly effective birth control method for the long term.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“And i get that drs are afraid of being sued. But that goes for any procedure.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:29 PM

You'd think best medical practices would be enough to get insurance coverage, etc.

Katie Klabusich · 5:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“just to butt-in,over here in the UK,you can get a vasectomy on the NHS. which means its paid for by national insurance contributions.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:30 PM

Totally -- I meant expensive for society. So, prevention = cheaper.

Katie Klabusich · 5:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“we try to be,Katie :-)”

Katie Klabusich · 5:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“What are the most common side effects women have to worry about as a result of the most common sterilization procedures?”

Katie Klabusich · 5:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“Hell, katie, WANTED children are expensive. ;)”

Katie Klabusich · 5:31 PM

I'll see if Leah's back before we do the side effects. But, the NIH lists them as: significantly lower risks of PID & ovarian cancer.

Katie Klabusich · 5:31 PM

So there's that.

Leah Torres · 5:33 PM

I'm here

Katie Klabusich · 5:33 PM

Hooray! Help with possible side effects to sterilization. :)

Katie Klabusich · 5:33 PM

(Busy doctors, lol)

Leah Torres · 5:33 PM

Risks are minimal--bleeding, infection (typical )

Leah Torres · 5:34 PM

I'm most concerned about potential failure, which could lead to an ectopic pregnancy

Katie Klabusich · 5:34 PM

Tracy -- tawkers is text only.

Leah Torres · 5:34 PM

I'm in clinic :)

Katie Klabusich · 5:34 PM

That's a good point. People relying on the sterilization and then getting pregnant anyway.

Katie Klabusich · 5:34 PM

And we love you for jumping in to help us child free folks!

Katie Klabusich · 5:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“of the subject - I'm at work and wondering if there is audio to this chat? I also tried app but no audio on that either.”

Leah Torres · 5:35 PM

Not many side effects, though blood supply to ovary could be reduced possibly causing mild menopausal symptoms

Katie Klabusich · 5:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Melissa Niksic

“What about early memopause symptims, depression, etc.?”

Katie Klabusich · 5:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Christine Cugino

“Is there a high percentage of pregnancy after sterilization?”

Leah Torres · 5:36 PM

If done well, less than 0.1% failure rate

Katie Klabusich · 5:36 PM

That's awesome! It sounds like a similar failure rate to "standard" birth control.

Katie Klabusich · 5:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“would sterilization help with other medical conditions? for example,migraines”

Leah Torres · 5:37 PM

Sterilization doesn't help with anything but preventing pregnancy :)

Katie Klabusich · 5:38 PM

It would leave all the hormonal parts in tact, correct? (essentially) Unlike hysterectomy.

Leah Torres · 5:38 PM

I don't think there's audio

Leah Torres · 5:38 PM

Correct. Ovaries continue working

Katie Klabusich · 5:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“I think that if you are really sure you do not want to have kids, then sterilization is the way to go. The pill and other BC methods all carry risk, cost, inconvenience etc. Once husband had vasectomy it made my life soooo much easier!”

Leah Torres · 5:39 PM

No hormonal side effects, usually a simple laparoscopic procedure (there's also Essure, which is hysteroscopic--via the vagina, cervix, and uterine cavity to block tubes)

Katie Klabusich · 5:39 PM

So, since I use birth control also to control migraines, PMS, extremely heavy periods, cramps, etc -- you would likely have counseled me toward the IUD (my current method), etc?

Katie Klabusich · 5:40 PM

That would seem to be an appropriate question in counseling: what all are you looking to accomplish with the sterilization? b/c if I needed additional treatment anyway, why spend the money on the sterilization.

Leah Torres · 5:41 PM

To address Katie's question, there are some things an IUD can't help. I'd offer an IUD for contraception but I could add on pills to treat other symptoms like PMS or headaches

Katie Klabusich · 5:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“se,,i would take the pill but i cant due to my migraine and high blood pressure meds. maybe an IUD might work tho...”

Leah Torres · 5:41 PM

IUDs don't stop the hormone communication between brain and ovaries, so you still cycle.

Leah Torres · 5:42 PM

For Lucy, I'd definitely recommend the IUD or implant

Katie Klabusich · 5:42 PM

Lucy -- your healthcare in the UK will cover that, right?

Leah Torres · 5:43 PM

I'm an IUD & implant fanatic, though.nnThey just make sense. They work the best at preventing pregnancy and they're the least amount of work.nn= no brainer

Katie Klabusich · 5:45 PM

Those sound like the perfect combo. lol

Katie Klabusich · 5:46 PM

Yeah, I think doctors tended not to recommend IUDs first here b/c they are WAY cheaper long term, but expensive up front. And insurance didn't used to cover it. THANKS, ACA.

Katie Klabusich · 5:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@katie - yeah it will. i just gotta go to my doc and ask”

Katie Klabusich · 5:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“altho the great,lovely male doc i did have has now left. so hopefully i'll get one thats just as good.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“Leah, can you suggest places for people to go to for these ideas and procedures to be discussed?”

Leah Torres · 5:47 PM

Kelly, I'm not sure I know what you mean

Leah Torres · 5:48 PM

Bedsider.org is great for all things contraception

Katie Klabusich · 5:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“just, sites to visit or places to go to.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:49 PM

Hooray! Leah knows everything.

Katie Klabusich · 5:49 PM

It's why she's one of my real life heroes.

Katie Klabusich · 5:49 PM

She's also fantastic on twitter, so if you have more questions -- hit her up there.

Katie Klabusich · 5:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“excellent.”

Leah Torres · 5:49 PM

Shameless self-promotion....

Katie Klabusich · 5:50 PM

and if you aren't on twitter or have a longer than 140 character question, her website is awesome as well

Katie Klabusich · 5:50 PM

http://leahtorres.com

Leah Torres · 5:50 PM

I have an "Ask Leah" page on my blog so that people can ask me questions

Katie Klabusich · 5:50 PM

It has an "Ask Leah" -- ha!

Katie Klabusich · 5:50 PM

awesome

Leah Torres · 5:50 PM

How did Katie do that?

Katie Klabusich · 5:50 PM

Tracie -- good question!

Katie Klabusich · 5:50 PM

As someone who doesn't "settle down," to use heteronormative lingo...

Katie Klabusich · 5:51 PM

That's super up front.

Leah Torres · 5:51 PM

"Ask Leah" on my site is for your resource

Katie Klabusich · 5:51 PM

I don't want to waste anyone's time. I don't think it's something your daughter has to worry about in high school/college, etc.

Katie Klabusich · 5:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“How do you communicate to people you are dating - that you want to remain child-free?”

Katie Klabusich · 5:51 PM

But if she finds herself in a long term where they're discussing that, she shouldn't be afraid to say that it's not something she wants.

Katie Klabusich · 5:52 PM

It does get negative responses.

Leah Torres · 5:52 PM

Brb

Katie Klabusich · 5:52 PM

But! It sounds like you're raising a confident young woman. She won't be afraid to say what she thinks. Rejection happens for all kinds of reasons.

Katie Klabusich · 5:53 PM

Yeah, I think as the child-free person it's really my (your) responsibility to bring it up. Most people assume the default -- that others want kids.

Katie Klabusich · 5:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“I ask because I didn't really ask husband if he wanted kids - and when I found out - too late! Already in love! Had to twist his arm to "let me" have one. BUT I had to do all of the child-rearing etc. It left resentment.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:53 PM

Let's face it, people who want kids are the majority. So, Child Free folks have to speak up and be willing to look harder/longer for partners.

Katie Klabusich · 5:53 PM

Hahaha. I like her.

Katie Klabusich · 5:54 PM

Do let her know (in the way you would talk to her about anything) that there is a stigma.

Katie Klabusich · 5:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“She will definitely let people know up front - I don't worry about her. She runs around telling people she's a feminist, atheist and that she never wants kids.!!”

Katie Klabusich · 5:54 PM

There are definitely men who -- even if they don't want kids -- think there's something wrong with women who don't.

Katie Klabusich · 5:54 PM

She doesn't want to date them anywa.

Katie Klabusich · 5:54 PM

;)

Katie Klabusich · 5:56 PM

I said that to the guy I'm dating -- who also doesn't want kids -- and he was like "But, there are men who don't want kids." I said, yeah, and they think it's weird too. Which can be true.

Katie Klabusich · 5:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“I am perfectly fine with anyone who is strong enough to think for thmselves.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“Yes, women who don't want kids get labeled. I have several child-free friends and it's rough.”

Katie Klabusich · 5:56 PM

Yes; that's the reason I use "child free" instead of "childless" -- I never want to co-opt (even accidentally) someone's real pain.

Leah Torres · 5:57 PM

What did I miss?

Katie Klabusich · 5:57 PM

My best friend adopted two years ago; that was rough to go through.

Katie Klabusich · 5:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“I have friends who are unable to have children and I see the pain sometimes when they are made to feel "less-than"”

Leah Torres · 5:57 PM

Dating!

Katie Klabusich · 5:57 PM

We're just getting ready to wrap up! I was doing a little early dating advice for Tracie's daughter.

Leah Torres · 5:57 PM

I say: "I don't want to get pregnant and have kids"

Katie Klabusich · 5:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“Great choice of words - I love it. Child-free”

Leah Torres · 5:58 PM

Sometimes you have to be careful in case the person you're dating already has kids

Katie Klabusich · 5:58 PM

Thanks, Lucy! It's always great getting some input from across the pond.

Katie Klabusich · 5:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“thanks for this tawk you two. i learnt ALOT :-)”

Katie Klabusich · 5:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“she's 16 and has already declared "no kids" just played Miss Hannigan in Annie and was great because in her words "I hate kids"”

Katie Klabusich · 5:59 PM

Thank you SO MUCH everyone for coming! And thank you to Dr. Leah Torres who's blindingly busy and always makes time to educate and advocate.

Katie Klabusich · 5:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“glad i could help”

Katie Klabusich · 6:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“thanks for the tawk.”

Katie Klabusich · 6:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“yes, i can tell leah is busy, thanks for the time here, everyone.”

Katie Klabusich · 6:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tracie White Galluscio

“Thank you - glad I was able to join in - now back to work!”

Leah Torres · 6:01 PM

Thank you all! I always love this!

Katie Klabusich · 6:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Christine Cugino

“Thanks for another great Tawk!”

Forum · 143

Forum· 143 comments

99 visitors

Tawkers AdminMar 24, 2014, 9:18 PM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

kelly mackinApr 9, 2014, 3:34 PM

I would like to ask why don't you want kids? I want kids but would not want to bring a child into this messed up world we have today so, I am kinda on the fence. It IS a choice and what ever that choice is, don't let anyone bash you for it.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 4:12 PM★ Spotlighted

Very excited for this discussion! Thanks for doing this, Katie. I am in my mid-30s, married, and have never wanted children. I knew that about myself since I was a kid. It's just not something I want to do, or feel that I have to do with my life.

Kate CollinsApr 10, 2014, 4:30 PM★ Spotlighted

I have been asking for a hysterectomy (for MEDICAL reasons) and have yet to find a doctor who will even consider it because "I might want kids someday," except wait, I won't.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 4:44 PM★ Spotlighted

The "you might want kids" someday is total BS and is not a doctor's business. It's your body.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 4:45 PM★ Spotlighted

I agree, why is your choice not even considered like they know you better then you know yourself.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 4:46 PM

The reason they don't want to give you the option is the economic growth depends on the growing number of tax payers.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 4:48 PM★ Spotlighted

Mind if I ask why you don't want kids?

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 4:56 PM

I don't want kids right now cause this world might not make it another 20 years. Other reason I have heard is kids are very expensive and time consuming. I have also heard about how it can change the birth givers body.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 4:58 PM★ Spotlighted

I just don't want them. Never have. Don't want the responsibility. It has never innately appealed to me.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 4:59 PM

Totally understandable. I have seen so many of my friends completely change after having kids.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 4:59 PM

refresh the page to get the tawk going if it is not working.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:00 PM★ Spotlighted

hello everyone.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:00 PM★ Spotlighted

howdy

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:01 PM

heheheheh

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM

What are the reasons some people do not want to have kids?

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM★ Spotlighted

hey all!

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM★ Spotlighted

There is so much pressure from other people when you announce you don't have kids. They are somehow super offended by my choice.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM★ Spotlighted

Hi Everyone - at work with headset on!

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM

good for you, tracie. = D

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:03 PM

It is not easy to not care what others think and say about a yourself, but getting over that fear is really great. you can then be your true self.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:04 PM★ Spotlighted

And in fairness, a lot of people do change their mind. But, it's your decision to make.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:04 PM

drs. probably get people wanting to reverse it. not so good.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:04 PM★ Spotlighted

Sounds like a good dr.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:05 PM

Exactly.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:06 PM★ Spotlighted

People have a right to be responsible for their own choices. If someone wants it reversed, it's not the dr's fault or problem.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:06 PM

People should have the right to live the life they chose to live, if kids are not part of that idea, why should we feel the pressure from others and let that become the choice we make. That does not sound like a free choice to me.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:07 PM

As a child-free woman, I have never considered sterilization for myself. I don't think it's necessary for me. And it is major surgery. But it should be up to me.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:07 PM

agreed melissa.

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:07 PM

i will admit for a while i wanted kids.but now,not so much. why? i guess for the main reason that have already been said here

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:08 PM★ Spotlighted

I have one child and it is a HUGE commitment - not something to be taken lightly or "talked into". If you do not feel like you want to have kids, or get married, or buy a house.... then DON'T

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:08 PM★ Spotlighted

But any major surgery warrants consultation. I totally get that. With sterilization, you get counseled, you pay, you have it done. It should be relatively that simple.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:09 PM★ Spotlighted

After we had one child, husband had vasectomy and we got sh*t for THAT! You GOTTA have ANOTHER one!

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:09 PM★ Spotlighted

People need to mind their own business is what it all comes down to,

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:09 PM

thank you for having the curage to stand up and talk about this.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:10 PM

DAM tracie.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:11 PM

my brother was able to get a vasectomy thirty years sgo.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:11 PM

In todays fear based world, it works so often to brainwash people into the others choices for you.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:11 PM

he was not married

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:11 PM

I'm wondering about the costs of these sterilization procedures compared to long-term birth control costs. Do you have any stats on that?

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:12 PM

dont long term birth control methods all have some risk?

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:13 PM

my daughter hated the implant. really screwed up her cycle

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:13 PM

and its still screwed up, months after removal

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:13 PM

I would like to ask, how many procedures are for the female as compared to for the male?

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:14 PM

I had awful side effects to the IUD and would not recommend it, FYI. I have heard the same from many others. But it's worth exploring the option, I think.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:14 PM★ Spotlighted

See Leah, that policy makes SENSE.

Christine CuginoApr 10, 2014, 5:14 PM★ Spotlighted

I see the counseling as paternalistic. Other life choices don't seem to go through that much scrutiny as sterilization.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:16 PM★ Spotlighted

My daughter says she does not want children and I think that, at 16, I already had the maternal desire to have kids.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:16 PM

interesting, Why are females always so limited in this world? Why can we not be equals in this world today?

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:17 PM★ Spotlighted

I knew I didn't want kids from the time I was 4 or 5. Truly. I have never wavered.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:19 PM

kelly that is an existential question that requires an extensive reply/discussion. = D

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:19 PM

just putting it out there.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:20 PM

sure. i'd love to discuss it. = D

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:20 PM★ Spotlighted

Society as a whole still sees women as birthing machines. People are scared when we she against performing our so-called reproductive duties.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:21 PM

Look for doctor that let you have choice and do not force an ideal.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:21 PM★ Spotlighted

I'm sure the number of doctors who will perform voluntary sterilization procedures for women is EXTREMELY limited. Are there resources where women can easily find one so they can avoid some of the drama?

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:22 PM★ Spotlighted

Good idea to look there, Katie.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:22 PM

Why is there drama at all about it? It should just be ok for someone to make that choice.

Kate CollinsApr 10, 2014, 5:22 PM★ Spotlighted

Sorry for jumping in and out- no doctor has been able I find a solution and I have periods that last almost a year. It has cost me apartments, the ability to wok, social life and romantic life. I have run the gauntlet of treatments and tests.

Kate CollinsApr 10, 2014, 5:23 PM★ Spotlighted

Don't feel like "you might want kids someday" is a valid reason to not do this.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:23 PM★ Spotlighted

There shouldn't be drama but there IS. My OB-GYN freaked out when I brought up the word "hysterectomy" as a possoble solution to a medical problem I'm having. I'd hate to see what she would do if I asked her about a voluntary procedure.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:24 PM

Yes, those pressures from society are not helpful to true freedom.

Christine CuginoApr 10, 2014, 5:25 PM★ Spotlighted

I've read a lot of doctors get sued after a woman changes her mind about being sterilized. Maybe the fear of a legal suit stops many doctors.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:25 PM★ Spotlighted

Costs related to one procedure vs. a lifetime of birth control

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:25 PM★ Spotlighted

Assuming birth control is the patient's reason for sterilization

Kate CollinsApr 10, 2014, 5:25 PM★ Spotlighted

That said, I also know I don't want kids. I never have. There are other things I want out of life.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:26 PM★ Spotlighted

I think you could just have a contract drawn up for that christine.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:26 PM★ Spotlighted

How can it even be legal to sue a Dr. for that reason? This world is so screwed up.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:26 PM★ Spotlighted

true that melissa

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:27 PM★ Spotlighted

totally gunna read that katie.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:28 PM★ Spotlighted

I just skimmed that article. Craziness. People are INSANE.

Christine CuginoApr 10, 2014, 5:28 PM★ Spotlighted

Looks like a great article, thanks!

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:28 PM★ Spotlighted

And i get that drs are afraid of being sued. But that goes for any procedure.

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:28 PM★ Spotlighted

just to butt-in,over here in the UK,you can get a vasectomy on the NHS. which means its paid for by national insurance contributions.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:29 PM★ Spotlighted

What are the most common side effects women have to worry about as a result of the most common sterilization procedures?

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:29 PM★ Spotlighted

we try to be,Katie :-)

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:29 PM

My friend hade a vasectomy just to assure his own originality hehehe.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:30 PM★ Spotlighted

Hell, katie, WANTED children are expensive. ;)

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:31 PM

Ahhh but for the government, that is a new tax payer, babies have worth to them.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:31 PM

just another slave to the grind.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:31 PM

is that why they don't like abortions?

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:31 PM

exactly.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:31 PM

I just read an interesting book, completely related to this topic. "Tattoos on the Heart" by Gregory Boyle. It's a book about gang life in LA.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:32 PM

One of the things in the book was how so many yound women were grabndmothers...GRANDMOTHERS...before the age of 40

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:32 PM

heheheheh ya I have a niece who is pregnant right now at the age of 15.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:32 PM★ Spotlighted

of the subject - I'm at work and wondering if there is audio to this chat? I also tried app but no audio on that either.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:33 PM

nope no audio

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:33 PM

i dont think so tracie.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:33 PM

And one woman said to the author, when she told him she was pregnant at 19, "I want to have a baby before I die." these people are so afraid of violence in their 'hood, they don't expect to live long and therefore want kids ASAP. And end up with 57.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:33 PM

Just interesting. I'd never thought of that before.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:33 PM

holy crap.

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:34 PM★ Spotlighted

What about early memopause symptims, depression, etc.?

Melissa NiksicApr 10, 2014, 5:34 PM

pardon my spelling errors

Christine CuginoApr 10, 2014, 5:35 PM★ Spotlighted

Is there a high percentage of pregnancy after sterilization?

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:35 PM★ Spotlighted

would sterilization help with other medical conditions? for example,migraines

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:35 PM

I had a girlfriend who after taking birth control pills, had a change in behavior until she went off of them.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:37 PM

headaches, I think, are mostly stress related, so if you are stressing about kids, maybe it would. this is totally just my opinion and should not be takin as fact.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:37 PM★ Spotlighted

I think that if you are really sure you do not want to have kids, then sterilization is the way to go. The pill and other BC methods all carry risk, cost, inconvenience etc. Once husband had vasectomy it made my life soooo much easier!

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:37 PM

I have never had a headache in my life, gunna donate my body to science for that reason.

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:38 PM

Kelly,migraines are totally different to your common headache. the pain is far worse :-)

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:39 PM

I would not know lucy, have not had one of either.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:39 PM

I did not see a behavior change in my friend after he had a vasectomy.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:40 PM

did your husband change at all afterwards tracie?

Christine CuginoApr 10, 2014, 5:40 PM

Does counseling over sterilization depend on the type of sterilization?

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:40 PM★ Spotlighted

se,,i would take the pill but i cant due to my migraine and high blood pressure meds. maybe an IUD might work tho...

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:41 PM

try eating more celery lucy, its good for your heart and blood pressure.

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:42 PM

@kelly - really? didnt know that. thanks :-)

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:42 PM

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:43 PM★ Spotlighted

@katie - yeah it will. i just gotta go to my doc and ask

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:44 PM★ Spotlighted

altho the great,lovely male doc i did have has now left. so hopefully i'll get one thats just as good.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:46 PM★ Spotlighted

Leah, can you suggest places for people to go to for these ideas and procedures to be discussed?

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:48 PM★ Spotlighted

just, sites to visit or places to go to.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:48 PM★ Spotlighted

excellent.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:49 PM

So, there are 35 tawkers here, am I the only male tawker here?

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:50 PM

I tried twitter but i have had problems with the 100 character limit.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:50 PM★ Spotlighted

How do you communicate to people you are dating - that you want to remain child-free?

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:51 PM

be honest would be my answer, no fear of being judged and don't let it bother you if they cannot see your side of the issue.

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:52 PM

honesty is the best policy - as they say

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:52 PM

may the truth set us free.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:52 PM

honest and upfront always, from the start, eliminates misunderstanding.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:52 PM★ Spotlighted

I ask because I didn't really ask husband if he wanted kids - and when I found out - too late! Already in love! Had to twist his arm to "let me" have one. BUT I had to do all of the child-rearing etc. It left resentment.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:52 PM

Yes, thats why I added the part with don't let it bother you what they think.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:53 PM★ Spotlighted

She will definitely let people know up front - I don't worry about her. She runs around telling people she's a feminist, atheist and that she never wants kids.!!

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:54 PM

Ya, that would be a tough situation. Hopefully, others can learn here from what you are talking about right now tracie. tawkers records all the tawks so anyone can go back and look and read them.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:54 PM

LOL

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:55 PM★ Spotlighted

I am perfectly fine with anyone who is strong enough to think for thmselves.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:55 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes, women who don't want kids get labeled. I have several child-free friends and it's rough.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:56 PM

Its about not buying into the brainwashing of TV, i think.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:56 PM★ Spotlighted

I have friends who are unable to have children and I see the pain sometimes when they are made to feel "less-than"

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:56 PM

Good point tracie, our world does that type of thing alot.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:57 PM★ Spotlighted

Great choice of words - I love it. Child-free

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:57 PM

reminds me of "pest free". = D

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:57 PM

child free? I had to pay 50,000 for mine LOL kidding heheheh.

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:58 PM★ Spotlighted

thanks for this tawk you two. i learnt ALOT :-)

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:58 PM★ Spotlighted

she's 16 and has already declared "no kids" just played Miss Hannigan in Annie and was great because in her words "I hate kids"

Lucy DyerApr 10, 2014, 5:58 PM★ Spotlighted

glad i could help

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:59 PM

I love kids, they are some of my best teachers. I just do not want to bring a child into this messed up world right now.

Robin MaynardApr 10, 2014, 5:59 PM★ Spotlighted

thanks for the tawk.

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 5:59 PM★ Spotlighted

yes, i can tell leah is busy, thanks for the time here, everyone.

Tracie White GalluscioApr 10, 2014, 5:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Thank you - glad I was able to join in - now back to work!

kelly mackinApr 10, 2014, 6:00 PM

love ya all, have a good life, the one you chose to have.

Christine CuginoApr 10, 2014, 6:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Thanks for another great Tawk!

Deb RyanApr 10, 2014, 11:44 PM

HI! This is the first time I've gotten to experience a Katie Talk! :-)