Jordan Birnbaum

Let's All Write A Fantasy Novel Together

Oct 9, 2013

RD
Stage· 177 messages
Oct 9, 2013

If you hang out on Tawkers, you're probably a Ross Dittman fan. But did you know that in addition to making us laugh from the forum, he loves writing in the fantasy genre? So Ross has agreed to lead us all in a collective Tawkers fantasy novel drafting session. So bring your dragons, wizards and books of spells, because we are about to escape reality, Tawkers style!

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

Mr. Dittman I presume?
RD

ross dittman · 1:05 AM

Hi.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

What's up my friend?! I didn't realize you were Satan (as indicated by your profile)
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

nice to actually get Satan and an angel in the same room,Tawking to each other :-)

RD

ross dittman · 1:05 AM

That made me laugh, so i put it up.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

was thionking the same thing, Lucy!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

made me laugh too
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

OK so here's our grand plan this evening -you're going to teach Lucy and me (and anyone else who comes) about fantasy novels
RD

ross dittman · 1:06 AM

With that compliment you seem like the angel Lucy.
RD

ross dittman · 1:07 AM

Okay. Whaere do you want to start? Characters, setting, plot?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

Let
RD

ross dittman · 1:07 AM

or plot
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

let's start by defining the genre. how does fantasy differentiate from sci-fi? and where do DC and Marvel superheroes fit in?
RD

ross dittman · 1:08 AM

Fantasy is described as sword and horse, where as sci-fi is described as ship and laser.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:08 AM

from those descriptions, they each seem equally plausible
RD

ross dittman · 1:09 AM

Super heroes are in their own genre by now, but depending on how they get their powers can be either urban fantasy or urban sci-fi.
RD

ross dittman · 1:09 AM

urban meaning modern.
RD

ross dittman · 1:09 AM

day times.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:10 AM

OK -so since fantasy is more sword and horse, does it breed its culture from the medieval era? knights, and chivalry, king arthur and the like?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:10 AM

I mean, Game of Thrones and LOTR certainly fit that bill.
RD

ross dittman · 1:12 AM

Most fantasy novels do that, but publishing companies are becoming more accepting of different settings. I've heard of books that's based on ancient arabian cultures. You're creating your own world, so you can do it about any time and place.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:12 AM

ahh, so more of a trend rather than a rule?
RD

ross dittman · 1:12 AM

Yep.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

Speaking of Game Of Thrones and Lord Of The Rings, and maybe mentioning Harry Potter, is this the golden age for fantasy?
RD

ross dittman · 1:14 AM

Fantasy was really popular during the eighties, and took a big dip in the nineties, but it's regaining its legs.
RD

ross dittman · 1:14 AM

It seems like its on an upward spiral.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

OK -so growing up which one made you passionate about the genre?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

ones
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:15 AM

and I'm trying to remember some 80's fantasies. does Weird Science count?
RD

ross dittman · 1:15 AM

When I was a kid Harry Potter was a big influence, but as I've grown up I've found authors like teryy pratchett, Patrick Rothfuss, Jim Butcher, Brandons Sanderson, Dan Wells and others.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:16 AM

so there's the mass audience awareness of fantasy, but then there is a serious literary world, right?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

How about Ghostbusters does that count?

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:16 AM

it counts as hilarious
RD

ross dittman · 1:17 AM

I mean in economic terms. The seventies and eighties were great times to make money with books.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:17 AM

ahh
RD

ross dittman · 1:17 AM

Ghost Busters Does count. I don't know what weird science is.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:17 AM

see even tho it's called let's write a fantasy NOVEL, I'm thinking movies. I'm not very bright.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:18 AM

weird science was a stupid but hilarious teenage movie in the 80s
RD

ross dittman · 1:18 AM

Ghost Busters is a mix between sci fi and fantasy, shich is hard to pull off. It's okay Jordan we're all dumb sometimes.
RD

ross dittman · 1:18 AM

which
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:18 AM

OK -so let's get into the actual storytelling in the genre.
RD

ross dittman · 1:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Suzanne Whang

Hi, Satan. I'm no sci-fi or fantasy expert, but I'm wondering why there don't seem to be many novels where the protagonist is female. I finally watched all 8 Harry Potter movies, and I kept thinking they should all be called "Hermione Granger..."

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:19 AM

but first, where's the ladies at?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

actually, the golden compass has a female protagonist. big book and movie.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Suzanne Whang

Was it good?

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

yes - very
RD

ross dittman · 1:21 AM

Brandon Sanderson has a female Protagonist is his Mist born Novels. Fantasy novels are in Tolkeins shadow, and his novel were bromances with very few women.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:21 AM

and actually, Game Of Thrones has a whole lot of badass women!
RD

ross dittman · 1:22 AM

Fantasy novels usually focus on emotions, whereas movies focus on visual aspects like fight scenes.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:22 AM

so - let's say we were going to write a fantasy novel right now. do we begin with settting? (audience - please voice your ideas!)
RD

ross dittman · 1:23 AM

@Suzanne Scroll up.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

so -would we decide if we are on Earth, some mythical place?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

like a Middle Earth kind of thing
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

arew other planets out because that would be too sci-fi?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:24 AM

I mean it feels like the natural setting is King Arthur's court type thang, but I think we can be more creative than that.
RD

ross dittman · 1:24 AM

You can have anything as a setting. An abondoned ship, a dentists office, but if you are writing an Epic fantasy then you are creating your own world. There are many genres of fantasy.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

do you have a preference when you write, or do you sample all fares?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

how about a jlly coop or jackie collins novels set in space? kinda debbies does spock....

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

that's a different fantasy\
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:26 AM

So I think I want to create my own world -that is Earth like, but has some weird characteristics
RD

ross dittman · 1:26 AM

I'm writing an epic right now, so I'm creating my own world. with religions, caste systems, cultural tendencies.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:26 AM

ohh - so is it like a feudal lord kind of economy?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle

why not in a desolate desert where "ridge runners" keep the peace? fantastic creatures, roam the land to find food and shelter...dangerous environment, dangerous critters...

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:27 AM

Yeah, what she said.
RD

ross dittman · 1:27 AM

Kind of. In my world you can get magic, by sacrificing goats to a god, so it's a goat based economy.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

with the way things are headed, the US might be a goat based economy soon too.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

PETA is going to get you Ross

RD

ross dittman · 1:28 AM

Cool idea jennifer. What would the creatures be like?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

no goats were harmed in the making of this Tawk
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle

Life is more a game of survival...a struggle to make it from one day to another...nothing is simple in this world

RD

ross dittman · 1:29 AM

PETA would kill goats for magical powers.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:29 AM

OK - we have a desolate desert planet where daily survival is a challenge? Now is it a hunger-games style inflicted challenge, or merely surviving the elements?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

Lol, the government isn't Sci-Fi, more like a horror film

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

and is the US Congress in this desolate planet?
RD

ross dittman · 1:30 AM

People would fight over resources.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Suzanne Whang

A goat-based economy? Bwahahahahah

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

ross - can goats survive in the desert?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jennifer "JD" Arbuckle

that's baaaaaad

RD

ross dittman · 1:31 AM

In such a desolate place war between nomadic tribes would be common.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

now what resources are available in this world, not counting goats. Do we fight for food, water, fuel, the spice?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Suzanne Whang

Did you read or see "City of Ember"?

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

yeah - that was cool.
RD

ross dittman · 1:32 AM

No.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

what are we fighting for gang?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

Seth,everyone knows the government is a fantasy novel

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

fair point, Lucy. someone had to say it.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

we are fighting for my honour,Jordan...obviously!

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

is your honour a finite resource?
RD

ross dittman · 1:33 AM

Water. Also how would people fight? I'd say that small battles not large wars would the main strategy. due to low population.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:34 AM

and do we have technology? or is it a bow and arrow type thing? spears? catapults?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

fish with azer eys,conkers on elastic,rubber poisoned arrows and everyone wears a cute cape

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

a cute cape in the desert? I dunno - I'm always wtoo warm as it is.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

Is there Free Wi-Fi on the planet?

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

that is important for Tawking....
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

Even the eels?

RD

ross dittman · 1:37 AM

Their magic system is based on certain minerals that would be hard to find in the desert. They would have to ingest said minerals for their powers. What are their powers?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

Telekinesis? vision.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Suzanne Whang

It's a laugh-off competition, and the winner gets water. Maybe that's just my fantasy. Never mind.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

I like it - funny or die has a whole new meaning
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

remote viewing -that's a good one
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

where you can peek in anywhere in the world through your mind
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

Maybe the capes represent different factions based on religion or politics? Different "houses?"

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

OK -let's recap while Ross figures out our magic system
RD

ross dittman · 1:39 AM

It allows them to look through the minds of animals, and scout for their enemies, food, water.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

We live on a desolate desert planet with sparse poluation, constantly in search of water
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

there are small tribes at war with each other over resources, identified by their capes
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

they fight with primitive weapons
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

and they compete for laughter to earn extra water
RD

ross dittman · 1:41 AM

many desert cultures use curved blades, and don't have armor.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

yeah, that sounds good.
RD

ross dittman · 1:41 AM

What about characters? Let's think up ages, genders, and ocupations.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

PLUS, there is a rare mineral, which, when ingested, provides the power of remote viewing -thorugh oter people or animals or aliens -anywhere on the planet, or even in the universe (I made up that last part)
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

No wonder you enslaved the bankers...

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

what happened with the bankers?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

With all that Twinkie eating we better have some good Docs. on the planet

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

and when did we get twinkies?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

OK Ross - we're back on point. forget the bankers and twinkies.
RD

ross dittman · 1:43 AM

Ten year old girl, and her father is a low level banker that gets killed, because bankers suck. So now she must figure out how to live on her own.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

I assume the mother died in childbirth?
RD

ross dittman · 1:43 AM

Yes.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

borthers or sisters? older or younger?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

JB,i am writing my own novel with the audience

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

send me a copy
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

and was her father a bad man? does she have to come to terms with that? or was he a good man - the only honest banker in town?
RD

ross dittman · 1:45 AM

I'm saying that she has a younger brother that gets into a lot of trouble with other gangs of children.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

Where the fuck is Disney? Someone get Disney on the phone.

RD

ross dittman · 1:46 AM

Her father was assassinated because he was becoming too powerful in the world of banking. The girl's older brother finds this out somehow, and tries to take revenge against the other bankers.
RD

ross dittman · 1:47 AM

Then we move focus from her to her older brother.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

so she is torn between a younger brother that's getting in trouble with the gangs, and an older brother trying to assassinate the bankers? Plus she just lost her dad. She's having a bad day.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

THIS ALL HAPPENS IN ONE DAY!?

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

figure of speech
RD

ross dittman · 1:48 AM

He's thirteen, which is old enough to be a man in this culture. main character should have awful lives, so you sypathize with them.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

OK -so the bad guys are the bankers who assasinated dad. I think he should be the only honest banker willing to give the little guy a shot, and that's why he was killed.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

would make it easier to root for them in getting revenge.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

It's pretty funny how you can take all these disparate elements and combine them into a rather sensible, if outlandish, story.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

agreed
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

having a bad day? bit of an understatement,JB

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

I'm an understated kind of guy
RD

ross dittman · 1:50 AM

He's one of the very few magic users that can control animal not only look through there eyes. So he kills bankers with mind controlled scorpions. I like your honest banker idea.
RD

ross dittman · 1:51 AM

This is a lot of fun.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

so the kid brother hell bent on revenge is able to ingest a certain mineral that gives him power to control animals to carry out the assasinations.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

but what about the sister - our hero? where did she go in all this?
RD

ross dittman · 1:52 AM

yeah. Every first draft is rough Mano. This is just idea time.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

do you think our hero thinks revenge will kill their souls, and aspires to bring the entire world to a higher consciousness - a new age?
RD

ross dittman · 1:53 AM

She's trying to look after her younger brother, and convince her older brother to stop with his killing.
RD

ross dittman · 1:53 AM

That's a bit much Jordan.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

lol
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

did I go too far?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

you mean it was all a dream? has this turned into a bad episode of dallas?

RD

ross dittman · 1:55 AM

I don't know how he would bring them to a higher conciousness. he already has assassin esque goals. Adding a change the world motif would be hard.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

what a cop out!
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

no I meant the sister is the hero!
RD

ross dittman · 1:55 AM

Where did that dream idea come from?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

the assassin brother is misguided and threatening to plunge the world into darkness in his quest for revenge.
RD

ross dittman · 1:55 AM

Where did that dream idea come from?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

Jordan has a point though, Ross: Do we need to develop motives for the brothers?

RD

ross dittman · 1:56 AM

Oh, Well why would she want to do that?
RD

ross dittman · 1:56 AM

Every character needs motives.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

little brother - loveable trouble maker. big brother -revenge-obsessed badass killer. middle sister - our hero - who must raise her little brother, stop her big brother, and somehow do something to save the world.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

Not to be all feministy but the protagonist's primary motivations seem to be motherly, as in she only exists to look after the goddamn MEN.

Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

yeah -we need to make her more badass.
RD

ross dittman · 1:58 AM

Okay, well then is very religoous and doesn't want her brother going to hell for murder.
RD

ross dittman · 1:59 AM

Maybe she wants to kill the bankers on her own.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:59 AM

OK - so Ross, how do you think we did for our very first group draft? What grade would you give us? And should we start looking for a literary agent?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

You had me at killing bankers...

RD

ross dittman · 2:00 AM

This was very fun. Who gives a shit about grades I loved this. You are all insane
RD

ross dittman · 2:00 AM

In a good way.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

OK - we need to do this again.
RD

ross dittman · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

You had me at Twinkies. And Goat Hell.

RD

ross dittman · 2:00 AM

We're getting people from all demo graphics.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

we were just getting the hang of it.
RD

ross dittman · 2:01 AM

Can Tawks be longer than an hour?
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

audience - we need you to come earlier for the next one.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

yes, they can - but I have to run. but I will definitely do another one soon. Soo fun!
RD

ross dittman · 2:02 AM

Later. Great Tawk everybody.
Jordan Birnbaum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

great tawk everyone! good night everybody7 - see you soon, love you all
RD

ross dittman · 2:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

Thanks JB and Ross! I LOVE YOU ALL, TAWKERS AND JORDAN AND ROSS AND LUCY AND SETH AND SUZANNE AND GOATS!