Katie Klabusich

Host

Let's Get Proactively Prochoice!

Sep 5, 2014·35 visitors

Leah Torres

Cohost

Stage· 182 messages

Sep 5, 2014

In a recent op-ed for The Salt Lake Tribune, Dr. Leah Torres wrote in support of a national law expanding access to reproductive healthcare services. The "Women’s Health Protection Act" would eliminate the need to navigate the patchwork of anti-abortion laws and ensure that a patient's zip code did not determine their quality of care. nJoin me and Dr. Torres in a chat about her work as a provider in Utah & the challenges faced by her and her patients. Then, let's get proactively prochoice!

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

Hi, everyone! Thanks for coming to "Let's Get Proactively Prochoice!"

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

Before we start, my tawks are a safe space. Ask questions, share — but no abusive language will be tolerated. If you need to mute someone, click the “ … “ nunder the thumbs in their comment or click on their profile.

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

With the disclaimers out of the way, let’s start "Let's Get Proactively Prochoice!" Thanks so much for joining me, Leah!

Leah Torres · 12:01 AM

Hey, everyone! Thanks for inviting me for this, Katie!!!

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

Most of you joining us are familiar with Dr. Torres from the Twittersphere (@LeahNTorres) and from our previous chats, which means you know why I love her and keep having her back!

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

So, let’s just jump right in. Tell us what prompted you to write the Op-Ed.

Leah Torres · 12:01 AM

This stuff makes me super excited and happy, as another disclaimer

Katie Klabusich · 12:02 AM

Hahaha

Leah Torres · 12:03 AM

Actually Physicians for Reproductive Health (@Reprodocs) asked me for help

Katie Klabusich · 12:03 AM

I wish we didn't need an org with that title -- all physicians should be physicians for repro health!

Leah Torres · 12:04 AM

We're trying to raise public awareness of the piece of legislation that can help women access health care no matter their zip code

Leah Torres · 12:04 AM

The Women's Health Protection Act is something everyone should be talking to their state Congresspeople about

Katie Klabusich · 12:05 AM

Tech pause: I'm hearing that the chat room isn't able to comment. I have my Twitter up, so if you guys have questions, hit me there & I'll paste them in.

Leah Torres · 12:06 AM

For details and links please see my latest blog post at leahtorres.com :)

Leah Torres · 12:06 AM

Oh noes!

Katie Klabusich · 12:06 AM

Yeah, apparently a glitch. I can multitask!

Leah Torres · 12:07 AM

Cuz @Katie_Speak is awesomesauce

Katie Klabusich · 12:07 AM

I think having providers be vocal about how these TRAP laws (targeted regulation of abortion providers) affect their ability to do their jobs is really important.

Katie Klabusich · 12:08 AM

You all are the experts.

Leah Torres · 12:08 AM

We are on the front lines of health care. We see how real people and their families are affected

Leah Torres · 12:09 AM

I feel it's part of my responsibility as a doctor to let legislators know if their policies are hurting my patients

Katie Klabusich · 12:09 AM

I think that's amazing.

Katie Klabusich · 12:09 AM

You mention the 72-hour waiting period specifically as a major hurtle to accessing care. How have anti-choice groups/politicians been able to pass it off as being about patient health?

Katie Klabusich · 12:10 AM

(Dr. Torres is is Utah, which has one of the longest waiting periods in the country; patients must meet with their doctor multiple times for a safe procedure.)

Leah Torres · 12:10 AM

There's concern about coercion--as if doctors are forcing women to make a quick decision about having an abortion. So it's under the guise of "protection"

Leah Torres · 12:11 AM

I can tell you from people I've spoken with that the decision is most often sure and decided before the pregnancy test is positive

Katie Klabusich · 12:11 AM

Mine definitely was.

Katie Klabusich · 12:12 AM

And I had plenty of time to talk about it with my provider the day of my procedure.

Leah Torres · 12:12 AM

There are women who are uncertain and who I've turned away because I wanted to be sure they had the time to ensure it was the right decision for them

Leah Torres · 12:13 AM

All in all, no one should be forced to wait for health care

Katie Klabusich · 12:13 AM

Wait a minute.....that doesn't sound like the abortion mill the right-wing describes!

Leah Torres · 12:14 AM

There needs to be more trust in the doctor-patient relationship and less interference

Leah Torres · 12:14 AM

Exactly. I respect women and their autonomy. Crazy, I know. ;)

Katie Klabusich · 12:14 AM

Yes!! It never ceases to amaze me how much the anti-government folks like to regulate OBGYNs. -__-

Leah Torres · 12:15 AM

If I suspect she's being forced by someone else (a parent, a significant other, etc), I'll also ask that she wait and make sure it's her decision.

Leah Torres · 12:15 AM

So what do we do? I can tell you--

Katie Klabusich · 12:15 AM

This is the real counseling that happens as part of basic abortion care -- as opposed to the fake counseling outside the Supreme Court just affirmed.

Leah Torres · 12:16 AM

Correct.

Katie Klabusich · 12:16 AM

Yes, bring on the proactive hope!

Leah Torres · 12:16 AM

Get your voices heard!

Leah Torres · 12:16 AM

Let local newspapers know that this is not ok.

Leah Torres · 12:17 AM

Call and email your representatives repeatedly to support the Women's Health Protection Act!

Leah Torres · 12:17 AM

Refer to it by number as listed in my site--that's helpful for legislative offices

Leah Torres · 12:17 AM

If we stay silent, nothing changes

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

btw the best representative contact website is this one: http://contactingthecongress.org

Leah Torres · 12:17 AM

Oh yeah, and VOTE

Katie Klabusich · 12:18 AM

You can let your reps know via social media/phone/letter/etc. that you vote on this issue.

Katie Klabusich · 12:18 AM

In your op-ed you talk about why it's so important to eliminate zip code as a factor in accessing care.

Katie Klabusich · 12:18 AM

Half of Utah women live in a county without a provider — that’s actually a less awful stat than the national average of 80+ %. What challenges does that cause — aka, why is it such a big deal?

Leah Torres · 12:19 AM

If you've ever had to make a doctor's appt, or a dental appt, you know how hard that can be to coordinate with your schedule.

Leah Torres · 12:19 AM

Now imagine you need childcare

Leah Torres · 12:19 AM

Can you afford it for TWO appointments?

Leah Torres · 12:20 AM

Can you drive 5 hours each way for these appts?

Katie Klabusich · 12:20 AM

Do you have a car to do that driving?

Leah Torres · 12:20 AM

Can you take the time off work or will you lose your job?

Katie Klabusich · 12:20 AM

Can you afford the time off work?

Katie Klabusich · 12:20 AM

(Another good plug for mandatory paid time off/sick leave.)

Leah Torres · 12:21 AM

All of these are factors in getting an appointment, right? But now make them TWO appointments and make them across state lines or in far corners from where you live...

Leah Torres · 12:22 AM

It's amazing what harm a law, proposed and passed in the name of "protection," can actually do

Katie Klabusich · 12:22 AM

Many people don't realize that they don't have a full-spectrum clinic, either.

Leah Torres · 12:22 AM

Precisely

Katie Klabusich · 12:22 AM

So you're adding time for research and logistics on to that timeline.

Katie Klabusich · 12:23 AM

What is so important about having providers like you speak out is what you just said about "protection.:

Leah Torres · 12:23 AM

Yes. Doctors don't even understand the laws, let alone how to navigate them. I know because it's part of my weekly patient care

Katie Klabusich · 12:23 AM

The anti-choice movement and their politicians have spun laws like these into being "for women" and their health.

Katie Klabusich · 12:24 AM

As long as they drive the debate without push back, removing stigma and breaking down their arguments is almost impossible.

Leah Torres · 12:24 AM

I speak out because on the front lines I see the harm these laws cause my patients and their families

Katie Klabusich · 12:24 AM

It's so brave of you to do that.

Leah Torres · 12:25 AM

Thank you. I don't know if it's brave--it's a necessary part if providing the best and safest care for my patients

Katie Klabusich · 12:25 AM

I have friends who wear bullet proof vests and have had their "side jobs" as abortion providers cost them their primary practices.

Katie Klabusich · 12:25 AM

So, thank you, my friend!

Leah Torres · 12:25 AM

I know those stories and I hope together we can make them a thing of the past

Katie Klabusich · 12:26 AM

It seems not to be enough that the best practices guidelines from the OBGYN/medical boards are on our side. We need vocal providers talking about the effects of these laws.

Katie Klabusich · 12:26 AM

btw -- there's a great project called "Abortion is Healthcare" http://www.abortionishealthcare.com

Leah Torres · 12:26 AM

I feel like more and more we're talking, but we need EVERYONE to participate

Katie Klabusich · 12:26 AM

You can write your own providers and tell them this is important and ask them to support access. SO COOL!

Leah Torres · 12:26 AM

Yes, that's a great project!

Katie Klabusich · 12:27 AM

I'm biased cause I know the creator. ;)

Katie Klabusich · 12:27 AM

I *may* have written letters to the Supreme Court at her birthday party. ;)

Leah Torres · 12:27 AM

I'm biased cuz I know that abortion is health care ;)

Katie Klabusich · 12:27 AM

Hahaha -- YES!

Leah Torres · 12:28 AM

I had help with my op-ed, but people can call legislators' offices and say simply this:n"Please support and vote Yes for the Women's Health Protection Act"

Leah Torres · 12:28 AM

It might take 2 minutes

Katie Klabusich · 12:28 AM

An important two minutes!

Leah Torres · 12:28 AM

Draft an email to the same point, send it out to all reps weekly

Katie Klabusich · 12:29 AM

And honestly, tweet it at them.

Leah Torres · 12:29 AM

Yes, the Twitter!

Katie Klabusich · 12:29 AM

They all have aids running their social media. Those are the folks who see what has traction.

Katie Klabusich · 12:29 AM

You can promote the bill AND pressure them publicly.

Katie Klabusich · 12:29 AM

Please be respectful! Shitty tweets get disregarded.

Leah Torres · 12:29 AM

Sen Mike Lee answered one of my questions on abortion live on his online townhall session

Katie Klabusich · 12:30 AM

You can even tweet maps of access, etc to them.

Katie Klabusich · 12:30 AM

NICE!

Katie Klabusich · 12:30 AM

Yes -- GO TO THINGS.

Katie Klabusich · 12:30 AM

This is going to be really important past this election. Even if you think we can't get the legislation through this Congress, the next presidential election will likely be decided on SCOTUS hearing TRAP laws right before the GOP has to fundraise.

Katie Klabusich · 12:31 AM

So, your reps and senators knowing where you stand is SUPER important going forward.

Leah Torres · 12:31 AM

When I went to my Rep's office in DC and explained how Utah women were being harmed, they were INTERESTED in hearing more! In the Red State office with Fox News on the TV!

Leah Torres · 12:32 AM

Know who's up for election in your state--see how they've voted in the past--look at the records of new contenders also running

Katie Klabusich · 12:32 AM

And once you know their position, make sure it's not *just* an opinion!

Katie Klabusich · 12:33 AM

We titled this "proactively prochoice" b/c it isn't enough anymore for candidates to just say they will vote down bad laws. We need good laws!

Leah Torres · 12:33 AM

Voting while informed is a matter of life and death for you, your family, your neighbors and friends. It sounds dramatic, but as a physician I'm telling you--that's an accurate statement.

Katie Klabusich · 12:33 AM

TRUTH

Leah Torres · 12:33 AM

We need good laws to protect everyone, not just those who happen to not live in TX, Mississippi, Alabama, etc

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

It's time to demand more access, not simply further erosion of access.

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

The law passed in California was revolutionary.

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

We need that on a national scale.

Leah Torres · 12:34 AM

That's what the WHPA should help to do-- replace access that has been wrongly revoked

Leah Torres · 12:35 AM

That was supposed to have happened last century

Leah Torres · 12:35 AM

And before, really, but I digress...

Katie Klabusich · 12:35 AM

It's important to keep saying.

Katie Klabusich · 12:35 AM

This is basic healthcare.

Leah Torres · 12:35 AM

This is standard health care

Katie Klabusich · 12:36 AM

I have to do a quick plug for the NY AG b/c he's up this November -- I heard him speak at a NARAL event and he's been involved in access since law school, pre-Roe.

Leah Torres · 12:36 AM

Great!

Katie Klabusich · 12:36 AM

He's the real deal. @AGSchneiderman on twitter

Katie Klabusich · 12:36 AM

He stood up and demanded we demand proactive politicians and candidates. I about fell over.

Leah Torres · 12:36 AM

It's the same with gun reform--if we don't know who we're voting to power, we're responsible for the bad policies and harm that follow

Katie Klabusich · 12:37 AM

Absolutely.

Katie Klabusich · 12:37 AM

That's what makes voting a reproductive justice issue.

Leah Torres · 12:37 AM

I believe I've seen him speak, too. He's amazing and super inspirational

Katie Klabusich · 12:37 AM

States like NC and Texas where they're gerrymandering and reducing voting rights end up being more conservative than the electorate.

Katie Klabusich · 12:37 AM

So, talk to your friends and neighbors; see if they need help getting to a polling place, etc.

Leah Torres · 12:38 AM

Voting is one of the most important and powerful rights we have.

Katie Klabusich · 12:38 AM

You mention a couple other TRAP laws in your piece that would be, in essence, repealed by the WHPA.

Leah Torres · 12:39 AM

They've attacked our right to not reproduce, they've attacked our right to standard health care, and they will attack our right to vote if we're not paying attention

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

The ambulatory surgical requirement is getting a lot of press right now (including in my own writing) because the Texas law (HB2) is in court. 26 states have this requirement.

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

Beyond being simply unnecessary because of safety, is harm being done to the quality of care and patient experience b/c of the ACS requirement?

Leah Torres · 12:39 AM

Yes.

Leah Torres · 12:40 AM

If I have to send my patient to another state because I am not allowed to perform her abortion in my clinic when it would be safe (& legal) to do so if she were having a miscarriage, that is harm.

Leah Torres · 12:40 AM

I'm all about safety

Leah Torres · 12:41 AM

But if I "need" an ASC to perform standard outpatient procedures, then so does the general surgeon. And the plastic surgeon. And the dentist.

Katie Klabusich · 12:41 AM

Absolutely.

Leah Torres · 12:42 AM

The harm is not having access to health care.

Katie Klabusich · 12:42 AM

If people want to see the difference b/t a licensed abortion facility and an ASC, I went with Andrea Grimes of RHRC to do this video in San Antonion: http://rhrealitycheck.org/video/2014/08/29/like-inside-one-texas-last-abortion-clinics/

Katie Klabusich · 12:42 AM

We toured the Whole Woman's ASC and the standard clinic.

Leah Torres · 12:42 AM

That was amazing, btw

Leah Torres · 12:42 AM

And thank you for doing that

Katie Klabusich · 12:42 AM

You really get to see the difference (I WAS SO EXCITED TO GO!) in patient experience.

Katie Klabusich · 12:42 AM

Oh, so my pleasure!

Katie Klabusich · 12:43 AM

The stress of the day -- which is often separate from the stress that may or may not accompany the decision -- is enough without the experience being unnecessarily terrifying.

Leah Torres · 12:44 AM

I want to be able to take care of my patients in the safest environment possible, but with appropriate use of resources. I don't need a ventilating machine to give a patient a pill.

Katie Klabusich · 12:44 AM

To walk into the ASC, patients have to sign the DNRs, etc. And they're in an operating room. FOR THE SAME PROCEDURE. It's so awful.

Katie Klabusich · 12:44 AM

Exactly.

Leah Torres · 12:44 AM

An operating room is a lot scarier than a clinical setting

Katie Klabusich · 12:45 AM

Also, our tour guide talked about how much the ASC requirements add to cost. You need additional full time staff just to maintain some of the equipment.

Leah Torres · 12:45 AM

Yes, exactly

Katie Klabusich · 12:45 AM

TOTALLY. The standard clinic room looks like your OBGYN's office.

Katie Klabusich · 12:45 AM

Frankly, I was a little jealous of the blankets and recovery room chairs at Whole Woman's. ;)

Leah Torres · 12:46 AM

But if these laws were *really* for improving safety, they would also be imposed on other specialties. As it turns out, that is not the case anywhere I know of.

Leah Torres · 12:46 AM

They do things right there :)

Katie Klabusich · 12:47 AM

Word.

Katie Klabusich · 12:47 AM

So, a quick note...

Katie Klabusich · 12:47 AM

This is my last Tawkers chat.

Leah Torres · 12:47 AM

So sadface

Katie Klabusich · 12:47 AM

I can't think of a better co-host to "go out" with!

Katie Klabusich · 12:47 AM

Alas, the resident host program is no more. :/

Leah Torres · 12:47 AM

Aw!!! I'm honored and humbled to share this with you

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

BUT! I am very chatty on the Twitter. So! I'm hoping some of you (who aren't able to comment b/c of tech glitches) will have ideas about how we can use other platforms to continue the discussions!

Leah Torres · 12:49 AM

Yes!!! Check out my post, contact me with questions, etc:nhttp://leahtorres.com/use-your-voice/

Leah Torres · 12:49 AM

We can't be silent and suffer the dangerous consequences

Katie Klabusich · 12:49 AM

Yes, and if people have questions about the legislation/policy, the folks at the Center For Reproductive Rights are super responsive.

Leah Torres · 12:49 AM

Reprorights.org

Katie Klabusich · 12:49 AM

@ReproRights

Katie Klabusich · 12:49 AM

Go team, lol

Leah Torres · 12:49 AM

Nice

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

One of their policy people was going to join us tonight, but tech. Whomp.

Leah Torres · 12:50 AM

We've got connections, just ask Katie or me

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

Absolutely!

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

And talk to other people.

Leah Torres · 12:50 AM

Use your voice!!!

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

Just talking about healthcare reduces stigma

Leah Torres · 12:50 AM

And email and phone

Katie Klabusich · 12:51 AM

@AllAboveAll is doing a badass bus tour right now.

Leah Torres · 12:51 AM

Very true

Leah Torres · 12:51 AM

Great to hear

Katie Klabusich · 12:51 AM

Share the stories -- share your stories! And tell your elected officials from your city council to your President that access matters and you vote on whether or not they're being bold and proactive!

Leah Torres · 12:52 AM

Well said!!

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

Leah, thank you again so much for joining me and for doing hero work!

Leah Torres · 12:52 AM

Thank YOU for coordinating, blogging, videoing, ranting, traveling, and not sleeping in the name of health care access!!!

Katie Klabusich · 12:53 AM

Hahaha. My pleasure! See you on the Twitter..... ;)

Leah Torres · 12:53 AM

Til the next!