Jordan Birnbaum

Host

Libertarians R Us

Dec 11, 2013·35 visitors

Scott Stenholm

Cohost

Stage· 159 messages

Dec 11, 2013

You might remember Scott from his last Tawk, fresh off his research work at Real Time with Bill Maher. Well, now he is a senior producer at The Ron Paul Channel (ronpaulchannel.com). So not only is he great at landing very cool jobs, but he's the perfect person to get us up to speed on the libertarian movement, in theory and in practice.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

Mr. Stenholm I presume?

Scott Stenholm · 3:03 AM

hello from Los Angeles

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

Hi buddy! Thank you so much for coming back to do a Tawk with me!

Scott Stenholm · 3:04 AM

of course, my pleasure

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

did you see e got an Adam Felber comment from last night:

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Steve Bumgarner

“Actually, I'm looking forward to Adam Felber. Actually, I'm looking forward to tonight with Adam Felber.. What a funny and genuinely nice human being!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

he must have stumbled in here thinking you were him!

Scott Stenholm · 3:04 AM

I did not

Scott Stenholm · 3:05 AM

My relationship existed with us talking sports (and the occasional political issue) around the Bill Maher office

Scott Stenholm · 3:05 AM

his office was right next to me

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

I know! OK - so I want to tawk about the libertarian movement, and how it intersects with progressive and conservative ideologies.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

and since you have joined the Ron Paul Channel as a senior producer, I feel like you're pretty qualified!

Scott Stenholm · 3:06 AM

lets

Scott Stenholm · 3:06 AM

I am certainly well versed on it these days

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:06 AM

So - you've gone from Real Time to Ron Paul. How much of an ideological shift have you experienced?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Bill Maher to Ron Paul...that's a bit of a jump”

Scott Stenholm · 3:07 AM

It is less of a jump than you would imagine

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:07 AM

See, I think Bill Maher is VERY libertarian, and wants to be even more so, but Repubs make it too hard

Scott Stenholm · 3:08 AM

Bill started out as a libertarian and he likes to say that Republicans rebranded it and he left their version of that ideology

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:08 AM

Now as it happens, I think that most progressives consider themselves libertarian on social issues. Do you think that's fair to say?

Scott Stenholm · 3:09 AM

Though I would contend that the whole country is shifting towards the fundamental ideology of libertarianism

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:09 AM

Not me, but that's for later.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:10 AM

but I mean, I feel most progressives want no government involvement in any moral judgment role

Scott Stenholm · 3:10 AM

I would say yes... certainly in terms of marijuana decriminalization, drones, civil liberties

Scott Stenholm · 3:11 AM

I would not agree with that all together - many progressives believe that the state should mandate certain moralities... ie brown v board of education

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:11 AM

That is a perfect example of the paradox of libertarianism

Scott Stenholm · 3:12 AM

gun control... etc

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:12 AM

theoretically, a libertarian shouldn't want the government stepping in to, say, stop gay marriage

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:12 AM

right?

Scott Stenholm · 3:12 AM

Yes, that is true

Scott Stenholm · 3:13 AM

they may not agree with homosexual marriage but they want government involvement at a min when it comes to individual rights

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:13 AM

But a libertarian wouldn't want the governmet to step in to enforce civil rights. True?

Scott Stenholm · 3:14 AM

Right - most would argue that citizens, or the free market even, would take care of policing istelf

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:14 AM

What is the line for a libertarian? Physical harm?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:14 AM

I mean, when is it appropriate for the government to step in?

Scott Stenholm · 3:15 AM

That is a solid line I would say - they would argue that the military, for instance, is meant to only DEFEND our shores. They are very anti-American interventionalism

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:16 AM

LOVE that!

Scott Stenholm · 3:16 AM

Anti war unless we are getting attacked at Pearl Harbor...

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:16 AM

Here's the complexity I see

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:16 AM

in the case of gay rights, we want the government to stay out of it with regard to individual liberties

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:17 AM

but with civil rights, we sometimes need the government for protection to ensure our individual liberties

Scott Stenholm · 3:17 AM

I agree with that

Scott Stenholm · 3:18 AM

See Ron would argue, lets say in the case of environmental issues, that if a town in the victim of an tar sands spill that the townspeople sue the company rather than call in the EPA

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:19 AM

Although, that's just a different form of government -the courts vs. the EPA.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:19 AM

still a government solution in my view

Scott Stenholm · 3:19 AM

excuse my misspellings - it was a long day at the office - ron was interviewing a player form the New Orleans Saints who is a libertarian early this morning

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:19 AM

who?

Scott Stenholm · 3:20 AM

I see what what you are saying and I agree

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“And what if the judges are bankrolled by the company...and who plays the role of preventing accidents before they start?”

Scott Stenholm · 3:20 AM

Chris Carr

Scott Stenholm · 3:20 AM

he is a starting DB, kick returner for the Saints

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:20 AM

so Seth and my comments I think highlight the great area

Scott Stenholm · 3:20 AM

I set up the interview for him as I am big NFL fan

Scott Stenholm · 3:21 AM

I agree Seth

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:21 AM

sorry to jump back and forth -go Saints! - back to politics!

Scott Stenholm · 3:21 AM

it is a paradox

Scott Stenholm · 3:22 AM

But keep in mind, Ron and most libertarians are not looking to abolish govt --- just limit it

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:22 AM

so we started off by looking at how libertarianism intersects with progressives. Now let's discuss the intersection with conservatives, which seems more formalized.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“It's kind of why there is a civil war on the Republican side: the libertarians want to end wars meanwhile the rank-and-file Republicans are often war hawks”

Scott Stenholm · 3:22 AM

Well the GOP is all about limited govt of course

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:23 AM

in words. not deeds.

Scott Stenholm · 3:23 AM

that falls in line with libertarianism -- obamacare is a prime example for them of a nanny state interfering in the free market

Scott Stenholm · 3:23 AM

yes, true

Scott Stenholm · 3:24 AM

but Ron and many of his supporters are against war and have knocked both sides of the aisle for supporting it - iraq libya syria etc

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:24 AM

True.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:25 AM

I think a lot of people admire Ron, myself included, for his authenticity. Even though I don't agree with much of his policy, I trust his intentions.

Scott Stenholm · 3:25 AM

I hear that a lot

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:26 AM

Must make you proud to work with him.

Scott Stenholm · 3:26 AM

I would consider myself a bleeding heart liberal democrat who voted for dems every president election since Gore

Scott Stenholm · 3:26 AM

but

Scott Stenholm · 3:26 AM

I agree with 75-80% of what Ron says

Scott Stenholm · 3:26 AM

his son --- not so much

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:26 AM

see -this is why I love you.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:27 AM

you make distinctions!

Scott Stenholm · 3:27 AM

although Rand is doing good work in trying to end mandatory minimums

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:27 AM

right - I couldn't believe he was my hero on the NSA stuff. And the Fed stuff. But I find him reprehensible on a hoist of other issues.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“I kind of liked some of the things Paul says, but then I found out his district gets the second most money of any district in congress, and only because of all his lobbying. Kind of hypocritical for a guy who preaches less govt. spending all the”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“time. Don't you think?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:28 AM

yes!

Scott Stenholm · 3:29 AM

Sure - it could be argued that the dems are falling behind their basic principles and gone too far right - too hawkish - too intrusive ie the NSA, the Fed as the GOP did with the tea party

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:29 AM

But it's like that Putin Op-Ed -don't discount the worth of the message based on the hypocrisy of the speaker.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:29 AM

Scott -I think that is a VERY important argument

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:30 AM

But let's go back to the idea of business solutions as an alternative to government intervention

Scott Stenholm · 3:30 AM

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:30 AM

even Adam Smith, the founder of capitalism, discussed the need for powerful regulatory forces to stop things like monopolies and price-fixing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:31 AM

the market is intended to allow people to rise based on talent and merit, and as such everyone has to get equal access to resources.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:31 AM

It seems to me that we need an expansive government to counteract the forces of corporate interests.

Scott Stenholm · 3:31 AM

equal access is a lofty goal

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Good point JB, plus Smith said the greatest assets are the workers, something today's free-market crowd doesn't realize”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:32 AM

Agreed, Scott.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:32 AM

I don't even know how to get there.

Scott Stenholm · 3:32 AM

not too many kids from the south side of chicago will have the chance to work at the chicago board of trade

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:33 AM

right. so shouldn't something be done to improve that?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:33 AM

whose responsibility is it? anyone's?

Scott Stenholm · 3:33 AM

of course - Ron would argue that it is up to the local community of people and parents

Scott Stenholm · 3:34 AM

since throwing money at a poor school district like that in DC seems to do very little and he has a solid point

Scott Stenholm · 3:35 AM

I believe that it should be an all hands on deck approach

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:35 AM

I certainly agree that the current Washington machine is completely ineffective, and I understand the logic behind starving the beast in its current incarnation

Scott Stenholm · 3:35 AM

I would say the opposite almost

Scott Stenholm · 3:35 AM

We need to free up the gridlock

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:36 AM

I assume you enjoyed the nuclear option?

Scott Stenholm · 3:36 AM

this congress is the most obstructionist, do nothing congress in history and it has stifled our economy, our environmental improvements, etc

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:36 AM

Does Ron like that, though?

Scott Stenholm · 3:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“His son is going to be a career politician and votes Republican mainly not libertarian”

Scott Stenholm · 3:37 AM

That is because he is looking to be President one day (would be my guess) seth

Scott Stenholm · 3:37 AM

He does and he doesnt

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:38 AM

You mean he likes that the government is being constrained from making problems worse, but he doesn't like the means by which it is happening?

Scott Stenholm · 3:38 AM

I think what he doesnt like what they choose to act on

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Unlike Ron who seems to keep his beliefs, Rand makes a 10 hour Filibuster and then changes his mind the next day after a "sitting down" with party bosses--seems more like a Romney type”

Scott Stenholm · 3:39 AM

they should be auditing the Fed and regulating the NSA, making sure we dont get involved in another conflict abroad, etc

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:39 AM

Well, I completely agree with that

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:39 AM

I would LOVE to re-prioritize things!

Scott Stenholm · 3:40 AM

as would the nation

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:40 AM

you'd think we could do what we want….

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“The Fed is a way to siphon off our money for the benefit of the big banks.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:41 AM

One of my favorite Libertarian positions is the dismantling of the Fed

Scott Stenholm · 3:41 AM

and seth, ron argues that the fed has only weakened the dollar since its inception

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:42 AM

So, is it true that the government used to print its own money, but then handed that off to The Fed, a private corporation, who charges us interest on money we shouldn't pay interest on?

Scott Stenholm · 3:43 AM

That is essentially true, yes

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:43 AM

why isn't the citizenry more aware and enraged?

Scott Stenholm · 3:43 AM

and they dictate interest rates that will HAVE to raise at some point or we will burst

Scott Stenholm · 3:44 AM

I think they are becoming more so

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:44 AM

What % of my income tax goes to paying the interest to the private company that we gave the right to print our money?

Scott Stenholm · 3:44 AM

now that Obama is no longer the liberal, progressive darling that many of us hoped for - a mistrust in ALL govt is growing

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:45 AM

That's why last night I tried to create the Felbercratic Party!

Scott Stenholm · 3:45 AM

I wouldnt want to given you a % - i am not 100% sure

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:45 AM

more a rhetorical question designed to elicit anger…

Scott Stenholm · 3:45 AM

hah ok fair enough

Scott Stenholm · 3:45 AM

and Felber's party would elect a NY Yankee president

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:46 AM

Derek Jeter, 2024!

Scott Stenholm · 3:46 AM

exactly

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:46 AM

who WOULDN'T want Jeter as president?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:46 AM

an asshole, that's who!

Scott Stenholm · 3:46 AM

well I am a Cubs fan so...

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:47 AM

ouch. I'm really sorry, man.

Scott Stenholm · 3:47 AM

One day...

Scott Stenholm · 3:47 AM

but any last questions that are less depressing than the cubs?

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:47 AM

OK -so I want to circle back, because I really want to challenge Ron's position on this.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:47 AM

The local parents and village that is supposed to handle things instead of the govt…

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:48 AM

what if they fail? do we just accept it?

Scott Stenholm · 3:49 AM

I would pose the same question - I would assume that most logical libertarians would say that in that case that the govt should have a limited role in protecting its citizens from say, bodily harm

Scott Stenholm · 3:49 AM

they just shouldnt be collecting our cell data

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:49 AM

so more of a fail-safe than a plan A

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:50 AM

OMG -SO agree on the NSA.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:50 AM

NSA - nice snooping, assholes!

Scott Stenholm · 3:50 AM

well a plan A if you hear something at the back door but not to be used to increase revenue for the state or local govt by excessive ticketing

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:51 AM

all right - this was really interesting!

Scott Stenholm · 3:51 AM

happy to have been a part of it

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:51 AM

I hope that a new political ideology will emerge that encompasses the best of everything, and I think you do too. (And Seth does too.)

Scott Stenholm · 3:51 AM

you still need to have me back to talk about climate change!

Scott Stenholm · 3:52 AM

I do.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:52 AM

hell ya. I'm actually doing a Tawk with Jackie Eco tomorrow night, whose an environmental stand-up comic!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:52 AM

who's

Scott Stenholm · 3:52 AM

that is an interesting niche

Scott Stenholm · 3:53 AM

well thank you jordan, and seth.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:53 AM

not easy to draw a laugh in a comedy club about polar ice caps

Scott Stenholm · 3:53 AM

Goodnight from Los Angeles!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:53 AM

thanks! goodnight!

Scott Stenholm · 3:53 AM

West Hollywood to be more specific

Forum · 24

Forum· 24 comments

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Steve BumgarnerDec 9, 2013, 5:56 PM★ Spotlighted

Actually, I'm looking forward to Adam Felber. Actually, I'm looking forward to tonight with Adam Felber.. What a funny and genuinely nice human being!

Blake IanDec 11, 2013, 3:04 AM

I will be watching the remake of Red Dawn in the background of reading this Tawk, because I think it will make a nice blend of media

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:07 AM★ Spotlighted

Bill Maher to Ron Paul...that's a bit of a jump

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:08 AM

On foreign policy they're about the same, and maybe drug policy but those are the only overlaps I see

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:13 AM

Although I believe Ron Paul is against gay marriage

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:17 AM★ Spotlighted

It's kind of why there is a civil war on the Republican side: the libertarians want to end wars meanwhile the rank-and-file Republicans are often war hawks

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:19 AM★ Spotlighted

And what if the judges are bankrolled by the company...and who plays the role of preventing accidents before they start?

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:21 AM

Kind of like suing BP when BP bankrolls a lot of judges in the areas they operate...not to mention what would prevent BP from doing the same thing again since worst case scenario they pay a fine

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:24 AM

Lol not really check out the voter ID laws they're passing all over the country, restrictions on women, abortions, union-busting. Limited govt. may be what they're selling but not what they're serving up

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:27 AM★ Spotlighted

I kind of liked some of the things Paul says, but then I found out his district gets the second most money of any district in congress, and only because of all his lobbying. Kind of hypocritical for a guy who preaches less govt. spending all the

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:27 AM★ Spotlighted

time. Don't you think?

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:28 AM★ Spotlighted

His son is going to be a career politician and votes Republican mainly not libertarian

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:29 AM

Kind of like preaching against eating meat but eating the super-sized burger combo at McDonald's everyday--you lose all credibility

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:31 AM★ Spotlighted

Good point JB, plus Smith said the greatest assets are the workers, something today's free-market crowd doesn't realize

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:34 AM

A big reason everyone in politics has moved to the right Scott is b/c of Citizens United ruling, which the Supreme Court used to allow unlimited, anonymous funding from billionaires and big business, and they're mainly on the right. Most politicians

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:34 AM

are nothing but whores in fancier clothes who will follow the money no matter where it comes from

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:38 AM★ Spotlighted

Unlike Ron who seems to keep his beliefs, Rand makes a 10 hour Filibuster and then changes his mind the next day after a "sitting down" with party bosses--seems more like a Romney type

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:40 AM★ Spotlighted

The Fed is a way to siphon off our money for the benefit of the big banks.

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:45 AM

banks borrow from the Fed at 0.75% but poor students can pay up to 9.5%, because the Tea Party wanted a free market for students but free money for banks

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:48 AM

The damn goat cursed you guys, and my Marlins were no help either

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:52 AM

The libertarian philosophy came about during the 40's mainly as a way for Big Business to politely say get out of business and let us do whatever we want. It wasn't about personal freedoms

Seth HochmanDec 11, 2013, 3:55 AM

Great chat guys. Good luck with your future endeavors Scott