Eleanor Goldfield

Host

Militarization Nation

Aug 19, 2014·2,042 visitors

Lee Camp

Cohost

Stage· 294 messages

Aug 19, 2014

Activists Eleanor Goldfield and Lee Camp take on the ever increasingly militarized police & what it now means to "serve and protect."

Lee Camp · 10:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“And this explains why the UK does not have armed police,and probably never will - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398”

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

HEY!!!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Hey everyone! Thanks for joining us!

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

Welcome to militarization nation!

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

Say hi to the awesome Eleanor Goldfield

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mary Anna Howell

“Excited about this one! ”

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“Hello everyone”

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Hi guys!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Say hi to the equally awesome Lee Camp :)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“to those who watched the chaos last night, man did my heart skip a beat a few hundred times!”

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

First off - can you tell your friends to come here NOW?! Just post the URL to your Twitter, FB, and POV porn sites.

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

If you're joining us right now it likely means you are not on the streets of Ferguson in the middle of a war zone.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

and just in time for our tawk, another young black man has been shot to death by cops in st. louis

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“i have invited my friend. i only have one.”

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

Way to be upbeat, El.

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i've used smoke signals,pigeon carrier and two tin cans attached to each other...to tell others. that ok?”

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

I imagine the pigeons will get shot by the cops.

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

my kids are in the bathtub, I'll be back

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

gotta stay positive lee - i hear it protects you from rubber bullets and tear gas

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

No one is allowed to bathe children during our tawk!!

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

Whassup badasses?

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

Hey Keef! (Got to see Keef in the flesh this weekend. If you don't already, follow his FB page - Art with Teeth! )

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“on a positive note, I learned how to alleviate suffering from tear gas this week, thanks to the people of Gaza...”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I have to say that it has been hard watching the state the I was born in and lived most of my life in tear itself apart”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Glad to see the protestors getting smart and wearing gas masks!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

that's something worth sharing rachel - do you have a link to that?

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

I watched the Ferguson livestream last night and it very much seemed like cops were tear gassing small groups of peaceful protesters and journalists.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

and arresting journalists and photographers for not being in "media zones"

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

reminds me of the "first amendment areas"

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

scott olson, the man who took that already infamous picture of the militarized police holding up their guns to an unarmed black guy was arrested for being outside the media zone

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“They are trying to keep journalists, photographers etc from being able to show what is going on past the "press zone"”

Lee Camp · 11:05 PM

Yeah, they always try to pull that "free speech area" bullshit.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

"Press Zone" "Free Speech Zone" ... this has gone beyond ridiculous.

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

Okay, so lets start with the grand chicken-egg question: Do militarized police create confrontation or are violent protests and criminals the reason for militarized police?

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jose Cervantes

“"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has! M, MEAD”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

I'd say the former.

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“their guns have become more powerful cos they have become more tubbier - so the gun has to shoot further...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

Actually I heard an interesting interview with a guy who had researched about 2,000 political rallies in the past few years

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

do tell

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

he said that when militarized police showed up, physical confrontation was almost inevitable.

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“Why have so many cops become so stupid...is it partly due to their diet?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

for two reasons: one, the cops are more willing to use force b/c they're all robo-copped out

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“I don't know that it's a racial thing there, though. I live in St Louis, and all the cops have been pretty brutal the past ten years, to blacks and whites alike.”

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Cops with a hair trigger and bad attitude, treating normal citizens like criminals starts the problem every time.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

and two: the protestors get way more defensive b/c they literally feel their rally is being invaded

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“brb please don't bill me by the minute”

Lee Camp · 11:07 PM

Everybody quickly make fun of Ben.

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I saw something from the former Seattle PD Chief who was in charge during 1999's battle for seattle and he says that Ferguson pd are repeating the same mistakes that Seattle pd made. that they should never have gone in with the military and riot gear”

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

Tim - I saw that. He calls the Seattle police reaction the worst mistake of his career.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

on the flip side, when cops showed up in the "blues" the protestors not only remained peaceful but there was usually dialog between cops and protestors because the protestors felt that the cops were there to keep the peace, not start a riot

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“and what the hell were the SWAT teams there for? this aint freakin' Gaza or Iraq....but i guess they gotta practice somehow,somewhere,right?”

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

heads are shampooed, I'm back for 2 more minutes

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

lucy - swat deployment is up 1400% in the past 20 years, i think it is.

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

MF - Can't you just put them in a big bottle with soap and water and shake? (I don't have kids.)

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

You New York people going to the Ferguson protest this weekend?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

swat is now used for routine search warrant calls

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Military gear = army fighting the enemy, not police serving the community.”

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

el - that number is correct. I'm using it in my rant this Friday

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

exactly kailyn, and that's how protestors and any average citizen view it

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kristen Ingman

“Almost every cop I've ever known as an adult has been former military. As a former Marine I can say that if you bring that elite us vs them mentality to the civilian police force you'll act with military force. ”

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“really? that is just fucking nuts and so damn wrong. when did the friendly cop go? WHERE did he go? and yes,i guess i am saying it about here in the UK too”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I served in the military in Iraq, and I will be honest. If we had done some of the things I am seeing in the images from Ferguson my unit would be in leavenworth now. They are using tactics against unarmed civillians that the army wouldnt use in war”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

@Tim - that's what I heard as well. I just typed this but I think my connection was lost. Basically taht military is taught to only raise their weapons when they're ready to kill

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

as opposed to how it happens now where cops just wander around with their guns perpetually raised

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

I was told by a former sheriff's deputy that there are two kinds of cops - former military and the others. And the others usually follow the former military.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“altho, if the government stops giving post military gear to the cops, wouldnt a big corp buy it all up and sell it back to the police anyways?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

@lucy - it's different when police are just GIVEN the equipment tho

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“So... I got nothing... I'm disgusted by everything at this point... Fucking shameful... Enough said...”

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“That is true, and never against someone clearly unarmed with their hands up and you have what we call "strength of force".”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

we taxpayers paid for it, almost a third of it is actually UNUSED - as in, we paid for these military contracts to make all this crap, it didn't even go to war and instead, pentagon just gives it away to the cops

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

local police don't have to pay for it at all. we're being blasted with weaponry we paid for, and the majority of WE didn't even want to pay for it in the first place

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

And actually we saw the difference in techniques between Occupy evictions. Most of them were brutally done by riot cops. However, in Salt Lake City apparently they used regular clothes and talked to the protesters about whether they wanted to

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

leave or be peacefully arrested.

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

Of course I would prefer no arrests, but if they're going to do it, that's the way.

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“The police case for it is that they need the equipment "because terrorism can happen anywhere." Along with their para military was on drugs”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

but it's now a permanent part of our spending - 1033 i believe it is - mandatory defense spending

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

which is the stupidest phrase ever

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

terrorism kills fewer people than peanut allergies.

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@Lee - wish that happened way more than it does”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jose Cervantes

“I thought we were broke? Broke not to create jobs, but not broke to deploy the Military and to declare martial law.”

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

It is 1033.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

I usually suck with numbers - go me!

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

Gonna talk about it on Redacted Tonight this week - Alan Grayson proposed bill that would stop 1033, military weaponry in cops hands.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

and yes jose - we always seem to have money to kill people, but never to educate, feed, clothe, house or give health care to them

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

The bill was defeated like 62 to 355 in the House.

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Michelle Renee

“Small town I grew up in (3,500 people) just got their chief to quit over militarization and over staffing. http://www.freep.com/article/20140807/NEWS06/308070218/barry-township-police-chief-quits”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

and all because military companies paid off lawmakers

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Rise of the Warrior Cop.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

god what a tired fucking cycle that is

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“we do we train them in hand to hand tactics is they aren't going to use them, I always thought it was starting to get beyond ridiculous when they started zip tying people, how inhumane can you get, aside from blatant abuse which we see too”

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

The Representatives voting to continue funding the program received 73% MORE from the defense industry than those voting to defund

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

@Rachel - there has been a tremendous increase in military style training for police. 20-30 years ago, most training was on diplomacy, peace keeping. cops were trained to keep the peace, to try and deliberate and avoid conflict. now they're trained

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Things like this just confirm just how far we are from progressing into a better world. Those cops are your neighbors, brothers and sisters yet they stand there and do this because the Man told them too. WTF! C'mon... That shit is just depressing!”

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“am I the only one who thinks narcissists are drawn to these positions of "power"? :p and then we wonder why they enjoy brutality”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

how to beat the shit out of people and how to drive tanks

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

Rachel - you're right but it's not just narcissism - it's a need for power, a feeling of inadequacy.

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

So therefore they are quick to trigger and eager for force.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“they need to screen those with a love of power out of law enforcement positions”

Lee Camp · 11:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yeah you are right lee”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Cops just need to dial it back a bit so they stop killing unarmed people! It's so fucking simple!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

it is simple, and yet today - after all this unrest, the st. louis police chief actually says publicly that he feels "the safety of police is his primary concern."

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

El - and of course that's ridiculous because they're making EVERYTHING less safe, for the cops and the protesters.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

of course! and the fact that you can fucking stand there and say that when two kids under the age of 25 have been shot to death, many others injured by "non-lethal" weaponry and no cops have been injured...

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“not the safety of the people, maybe if the police handled it correctly in the first place they wouldn't have to worry about people being angry, in a real democracy wouldn't they be out on their asses? these cops involved?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“i said to my friend "just doing my job" will be the battle song of the death of freedom”

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

Hmmm, where have we heard this before? Extreme power saying they need to "defend" themselves... Israel anyone?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

i might steal that line ben

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

this entire charade by the police seriously pisses me off

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

I hate to draw this comparison but um...nazi germany

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

If you were a community leader, what would you tell people to do right now?

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

Ben, I don't advocate that kind of violence. And honestly, there are a lot of good cops. Unfortunatley they sit back while the bad ones lead.

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I would urge non violence as much as I could. But i have to be honest, I am at a loss”

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“The purpose of police is to keep the masses quiet so that the wealthy can live their lives in peace.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

i'd organize a sit in - something simple yet effective in its non-violence. sit right by that fucking "media area" or whatever the hell it's called.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“would you say, lets protest because that has gotten us so much change in the past?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

ben, if you advocate killing cops - how are you any better than the crooked cops you go up against?

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

Ben - have you seen the weapons cops have? You're not gonna win that battle, my friend. Bad idea.

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kristen Ingman

“I was told by my HS history teacher that when an economy is bad go to war. It always perks up the economy. User he was right ”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“it needs to be a sustainable protest too, like Eleanor said stage things in other parts of the city, I also say the people of Ferguson are also protesting with their wallets boycotting Ferguson stores”

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

Kristen, apparently that's also what Bush told to a leader of a south american country (can't recall which one)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“buddhists are killing people!”

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

He said "You should go to war. Good for the economy"

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jose Cervantes

“PEACE is the only answer. Not guns, because they are looking for an excuse to complet the plans of the NWO! To get rid of the "fluff" and to kill off 9/10th of the world's population, If this doesn't do it, well there is always Fukushima.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:25 PM

i'm gonna go with christopher hitchens on this one. don't do anything an organized religion is doing. follow morality not some dude in the sky or a dude under a tree

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“Community leaders should demand the policy of deadly force be eliminated. Shit, the Governors should be on this. We should put the responsibility for these murders on the political ringleaders, district attorneys, mayors, governors...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

Sit-in. Great idea! Something super clearly non-aggressive. Indeed, surround the media area. *shudders* (< that phrase gives me the willies)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“The protests at least have people around the world looking at the problems here, are embarrassing the POTUS, and have him talking to Ferguson. The protests have done at least that. There's a new police chief there now.”

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Dennis Owen

“Drug war keeping the economy going . yeah”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

exactly. and the more we protest with cameras instead of looting, the more we shine the light on the injustice and inequality.

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“From my perspective, having been to war. Violence done by other side will only keep the cycle going. The police need to deescalate and their needs to be dialogue with the community”

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

Tim - They also need to prosecute when a cop murders an unarmed civilian for little reason.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

I haven't been to war, Tim. but i agree fully with that sentiment - just having read about these instances in our and other countries' history

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

Right now cops act with impunity. They know nothing will happen to them.

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kristen Ingman

“Lee, why does that not surprise me? I'm not getting a full economic recovery vibe this go round. ”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

agree, Lee. the fact that he had stolen some cigars is not cause to shoot him 6 times

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“from what i could see the community leaders were saying to the protesters to do what the police said, stay on the sidewalk. which they did. it was peaceful .no-one did anything.”

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“A true Buddhist must be on the Noble eight-fold path and must not kill anything. A true Buddhit will self-immolate for a powerful reason Eleanor.”

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mattrick Holbert

“The only way to end the militarization of the police force is through public dissent.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

this isn't really the forum to get into a religious debate john - suffice it to say that every religion can call upon the bad eggs and say they're not "true" to that religion, but the fact of the matter is that the bad eggs always point to the same

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

god as the ones condemning them.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“but you dot eliminate hatred by killing people. that only makes it worse. for everyone”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“i think the only way to stop the police is to defund them, like congress does to kill a bill they dont like”

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

put that kind of gear on them and give them that kind of equipment and suddenly they feel pretty damn powerful to boot

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

you can't defund the police ben - we actually do need cops.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

and that wouldn't take away militarization anyway

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

Yes, and when you feel like you're in a tank, you will act like you're in a war.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

they're getting these war toys free of charge

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“The cycle of violence will never be ended by more violence. And we have a lot of history, like all of it, to back that up”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“Cops and their their Chiefs should be held accountable for every murder they cause. Cops have got to stop being sheltered from the law by their District Attorneys and others.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jose Cervantes

“We need policy to start collecting DATA on these kind of deaths, as of right now there is not data collection.”

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

1033 is in NDAA. A lot of this goes back to NDAA.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

exactly jose - we need cameras on cops while they're on duty

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

if there's video surveillance of a drive thru window, there should fucking be surveillance on a guy carrying a gun and a taser

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Look, I have been thinking a lot lately, as I got to the solidarity with Ferguson rallies, that the "Us and them" rhetoric is part of the problem.”

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“we in the UK are getting cameras on cops.”

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“You mean The Freedom Act? Ha Ha Ha!”

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

Did we already go through the numbers? In Rialto, CA where cops HAVE to wear cameras, use of force is down 60% and complaints down 88%

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“That is another thing. that you @El for making me think of it. Where is the report, or dashboard cam or audio. You know the officer had that in his cruiser and if things happened the way they said you would think they would have brought that out”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“It's simple psychology that you act better when you know you will be held accountable.”

Lee Camp · 11:32 PM

@Tim - They have cameras in Ferguson but I don't think his was on.

Lee Camp · 11:32 PM

We could use some heavy celebrity presence on the front lines. People that could galvanize support and be a much higher risk, higher-profile "target" for the jackboots.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:32 PM

yeah - it shouldn't be something that the cop can turn off him/herself

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

Keef - By heavy celebrity presence you mean Kirsty Alley?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

it should be like a punch card - once your shift starts, the damn thing turns on. when it's over, it turns off

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kathy Grinslade

“This is a racial thing and if you do not understand that, we can't really communicate the gravitas of the issue.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“the fact that he actively turned it off kind of says something right there”

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

Kathy - It is racial in that the PD is almost entirely white and harass the black community

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

Crazy that the dash-cams can be "turned off". Why the fuck have them in the first place if they can just get flipped off on a whim?

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

When asked how many black officers they had, the chief replied, "I think 5. There was 6 but one left."

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mattrick Holbert

“The way to solve these problems is through information, and action. What more is there to say. We all know things are bad, you just have to Get MAD!!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

he also mentioned that they have one hispanic

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

as if that were some sort of consolation prize

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

Close enough, El!!

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from edie angelo

“I don't care if cops have riot gear. We just need to get the cops on our side. a LOT OF POLICE (AS WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO VOLUNTEER FOR THE ARMED FORCES ARE DAMAGED ANGRY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET THEIR HANDS ON A GUN.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“I heard a story that made me cry today because it was policing done right: Police in San Antonio have made a special unitl to deal with people who have mental illness. SO they don't just get arrested or taken to the ER. They go to atreatment facility”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

@Rebecca - imagine that!

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

Edie, you're demanding angry people by your use of all caps.

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

How about the police chief's response to how many shots were fired? "More than two, but not much more!"

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

just last week, a black boy was killed in LA by an LAPD officer. he had mental health issues, was on medication and the cops cornered him bc he was "acting erratically"

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

Rebecca - I heard that too!

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

They actually deal properly with people with mental issues!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“I don't think this was necessarily racial. I'm white, and the've run up on me a few times too! For something stupid, like an expired registration. I'm telling you guys, the police here are really "crazy." PTSD or something.”

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

Didn't know "erratic" was against the law.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

@Kailyn - i have bad luck with cops too. but the fact of the matter is, if i were black - that bad luck would statistically be raised by 50% or more

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Chris Owens

“Sorry to hear that bill was so quickly defeated”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

the system is INCREDIBLY racist

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“why does it take a killing to make people wake up and realise how shit things are? THAT is what niggles at me.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“as if they are very in turn with how many minorities they need in the force not to be subject to any discrimination laws, MO isn't known for it's racially forward thinking to begin with”

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“The police have been given far too many powers that are too far reaching and vague. And while we here are totally against it, the sad, sad part is there is a portion of the population that buys into their politics of fear”

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

But police brutality in general is often not racial. Look at Cecily McMillan.

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

Tarintino has said that the prison system is modern day slavery...probably others

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

There are far more black people in jail now than there were slaves in the US.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

police brutality is opportunistic, yes. but cecily's story, while awful, is not the norm. most of the time, a white woman is not the one thrown in jail

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I am ex military and when I left I was offered positions with law enforcement. I turned them down because I knew that my psyche issues from combat would make me a horrible cop.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

@Tim - do they actively seek out ex-military for police jobs?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I have to wonder though, how many with worse issues than mine have taken those positions and are part of the reason we are seeing such escalation”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“obviously classism comes into play here too.. it is about power over powerless”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“They try to offer ex military anything like that that they can to help them transition back to civilian life.”

Lee Camp · 11:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“question - did the police last night incite a riot? is that not against the law? ...wait,they are above the law (hits head on desk).”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

although being a cop isn't technically civilian life either - particularly with all these military weapons. that's interesting tho that they actively seek ex-military.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“They thing that the experiance will help., and maybe to a degree they are right, but when you take someone who has seen alot of death and bloodshed, they may not be psychologically capable of doing the job conscientiously”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

Great point Tim. If the objective - in classic terms - is to protect and serve and to AVOID physical or violent conflict, a military background may be the last thing you want

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kristen Ingman

“Sorry had to open some chickpeas. My brother called me right after switching off Fox news to tell me "the kid was a thug & robbed a store just before". I am so sick of media outlets fencing facts for ratings. All they've done is stir the unrest ”

Lee Camp · 11:42 PM

Kristen - I love the idea that if someone is "a thug" you can murder them.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

I can only imagine for someone dealing with PTSD to be given gear they just used in the middle east and told to go out into the streets of a US city - how can that not fuck with your head?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

So, what do we think, guys? Does the massive media coverage of the heavy handed response help the cause, or hurt it (by throwing gas on the fires of division)?

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

Tell your brother, EVEN IF Mike Brown WERE a thug and EVEN IF you had proof he robbed the store of some cigars and EVEN IF you had proof the cop KNEW he robbed the store, you STILL CAN'T murder an unarmed teenager!!!

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mattrick Holbert

“Psychology of the military and the police force is almost the same.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“you gotta keep people on point when talking about this, like you said just because you are a "thug" in someone's eyes doesn't mean you deserve to be shot to death when you weren't even armed or a threat”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I am not in law enforcement. I cant go to a theatre to watch a movie. If RR played Seattle I couldnt go see it, or same with Lee. Because of my ptsd.I freak out when surrounded by people. I cant imagine being a cop with gear and authority over people”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

Tim, I'm sorry to hear that. Sounds awful.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

Tim, I'm sorry to hear about the PTSD - but I think it's also great and strong of you not to take a position in the police, knowing that about yourself.

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

But it's important for anyone to know their limits if they have a condition. If rock concerts are a trigger, avoid them. That's important.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

I wish more would

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kristen Ingman

“Lee: exactly! We've gone right past the due process and the fact that certain people think that's ok are dangerous as well as a red flag as to the nature of our society. When is it ok to be judge, jury & executioner? ”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“WE ALL HAVE PTSD! We see thousands of scenes of violence per week!”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

Rebecca - careful not to make light of something very serious. We don't all have clinical ptsd.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

Rebecca - I don't think the scenes of violence you or I see can be compared with what war veterans have seen

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I found ways to deal, that is why I stat out in the forest and photograph wildlife. I took time to find what worked for me, but alot of people coming out and taking these jobs arent doing it. they are just taking what is offered without considering”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

This doubtlessly ties into the lack of resources for veterans with PTSD too

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Many police forces lack the money to properly treat PTSD or screen for it.”

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

Tim - and many former military I think have a condition that makes them seek out battle and seek out force. I don't know whether it's always PTSD or something else.

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“if they are pscyhologically prepared for it”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:48 PM

@Kailyn - another good point. That should be a pre-requisite for becoming a cop - no PTSD

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“the resources for PTSD for vets is drugs. Thats what they did with me and it left me as my friends said, "almost cult leader like" everything was sunny”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

Kailyn - I imagine with police as with veterans there's probably a tendency to view it as "not tough" to deal with it properly or even admit it to oneself.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:48 PM

yeah, i imagine it's the same medicine they like to "test" on people who are bipolar and that shit is scary

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“but it was a false reality and when I came off the drugs I tried to commit suicide”

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“how many vets commit suicide daily? more than are killed in battle.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

bottom line, what makes someone want to get into a line of work where they can pull someone over and bust them for weed.

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

Ben - that's true. Many many more commit suicide than die on the field of battle.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

MF - that's the problem. the police no longer recruit people who care about the safety and the peace of a community.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

literally, their recruitment videos now show MRAPs and tanks instead of community service

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“and how do we treat them when tehy come back? we cut their benefits, make them use the most overbooked hospitals, pay them literally shit.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

it'd be like showing a video for potential doctors of all the cool drugs you have access to as opposed to helping people be healthy

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

fucking twisted

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

so they really get the "tough" guys

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“But now you have them, with the same gear from their war experiances, going through city streets, like we did in war”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

yep, MF - exactly

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

these recruitment videos are even set to heavy metal music like it's a damn war video game. it's atrocious

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

Tim - absolutely. And they view American protesters the same way as they viewed insurgents. How could they not?

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“random unscientific stat: most homeless people in the USA are veterens”

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

I don't know whether it's most or not, but it's a very very high percentage.

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Carr

“Are the police forces privatized like companies in each state of the US or are they governmental?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:51 PM

Add to that, Lee, the concepts and ideologies of a racist system...and you get Ferguson, LA, St. Louis, etc.

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

Police are governmental.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

im here in missouri, and this is scary

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

Are you in Ferguson, lee anna?

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

But there are private forces - such as the ones that protect Koch Bros retreats and ALEC and shit.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I find it a curious mindset, because my time led me to guilt and grief and led me to wanting to be a force for positive change in the world. but if i had taken a job in law right out, i can only imagine how I would treat peopple”

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

And there are private military obviously - like blackwater.

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ben Hertz

“Rich, mostly public but they are using private compnaies also now”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

I heard a similar sentiment Tim - watching a video panel of IVAW

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

(Iraq Veterans Against War)

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

And Vets for Peace are also great.

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Carr

“So the response we are seeing is purely local government or is it now higher up considering the scale and media coverage?”

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

Rich - It's local and state police, although national guard was called in.

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“The current response is I think a combination of local and state”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

the state called in national guard

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jose Cervantes

“Where is the NRA in all this, while the incident in Bundy Ranch in Nevada went well in their stand off, or is it a double standard???”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I have been wondering about that too. All the people who were screaming about freedom being taken away when it came to guns are silent on this”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

probably bc guns don't help here, and they know that

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

victims of militarized police force often have guns.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

i can't remember the percentage but several cases of swat home invasions involved a home owner with a gun

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

doesn't matter when you're up against 8 swat team members with assault rifles

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

NRA can't ever admit that being armed to the fucking teeth won't help.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

gun control should be applied across the board.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

hell, in some cities in sweden, for example, police aren't even allowed to have guns b/c it's totally unecessary

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I wonder if it was because the home owner was a gun owner or if the home owner was being raided for something else and happened to own a gun”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

@Tim - SWAT suspected him of having weed

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

he ended up having one ounce of weed. they shot and killed him. he died with his gun in his hand, unfired

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Carr

“Excuse my ignorance of the US hierarchy but, and knowing full well the President is usually only a figurehead and doesn't hold real power, where does the buck stop with the decision making on how this is all handled?”

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

Rich - combination of local and state. Ultimately it could land in Federal hands, but unless it truly gets nuts it's state and local.

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“And that is why I live in Washington lol”

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from John Henry

“i demand the right to own a personal nuclear missile!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:57 PM

Federal will try to calm the situation - well in a perfect world - by sending representatives and what not, but typically they don't get involved

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

We're wrapping up soon but you guys are welcome to keep talking! We do this every Tuesday at 7pm EST!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

Wow, that hour flew by!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“Its weird, becauseI go out and spend weeks with my bears in the wilderness. and then come back to things like this.”

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

Please sign up for my new newsletter at LeeCamp.net. And Check out Redacted Tonight!

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

Here's the last episode - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzEossY7Woo

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

Great tawk everyone! Please stay and continue talking if you like. Be sure to suggest topics too!

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

So, sit-in is the best suggestion I heard here. Is there a way to get that suggestion to Ferguson?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

And watch Lee's show!

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“Thanks for the tawk Lee and Eleanor! :)”

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Carr

“Cheers. Thanks for letting the little people be a part of something meaningful. :)”

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“Keep doing what you are doing Lee.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

And our new EP is also available for pre-order on our website: rooftoprevolutionaries.com

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

comes out august 26th!

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

Thanks guys! Thanks Tim for sharing with us! I hope things keep getting better for you.

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“@ Tim - Thank you for your service.”

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

The new Rooftop Revolutionaries EP is AMAZING!!

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“Thanks everyone. good night”

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

Thanks everyone....awesome stuff. oh shit, the kids in the tub!!!!

Forum · 370

Forum· 370 comments

2,042 visitors

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 10:27 PM

Mapping the Spread of the Military’s Surplus Gear - http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/15/us/surplus-military-equipment-map.html?smid=tw-nytimes&_r=1

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 10:36 PM★ Spotlighted

And this explains why the UK does not have armed police,and probably never will - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 10:54 PM

Serve the DEA and protect the NSA.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 10:55 PM

Serve and protect Israel & Monsanto.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 10:56 PM

we have too many narcissists in law enforcement, they would never *want* to be unarmed, they like having that control.. if you ask me, but it's just a theory I'm working on, hi everyone!

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 10:57 PM

hey Rach!

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 10:57 PM

and hello to the lovely and gorgeous hots - Lee and Eleanor!

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 10:58 PM

and i can't forget the audience...you lovely people you!

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 10:59 PM

good evening friends

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 10:59 PM

hots? lol wtf?

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 10:59 PM

hey there Ben

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 10:59 PM

Lucy if you come to the U.S. get ready for a dramatic change in the police force, if you are used to unarmed police :/

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:00 PM

@rach - i'll come armed with my big booty! lol

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:00 PM

Hey Lee and Eleanor!! :)

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Hi guys!

Mary Anna HowellAug 19, 2014, 11:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Excited about this one!

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Hello everyone

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:00 PM★ Spotlighted

to those who watched the chaos last night, man did my heart skip a beat a few hundred times!

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:01 PM

Hello

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:01 PM★ Spotlighted

i have invited my friend. i only have one.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:01 PM★ Spotlighted

i've used smoke signals,pigeon carrier and two tin cans attached to each other...to tell others. that ok?

Justin ClarkeAug 19, 2014, 11:02 PM

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:02 PM

@Lee - pigeon pie

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:02 PM

@Keef - leave my ass outta this. it may be bad but its mine

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

on a positive note, I learned how to alleviate suffering from tear gas this week, thanks to the people of Gaza...

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:03 PM

good morning y'all

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

I have to say that it has been hard watching the state the I was born in and lived most of my life in tear itself apart

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:03 PM

if you can use positive and tear gas in the same sentence :/

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

Glad to see the protestors getting smart and wearing gas masks!

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:04 PM

it was great to see most wanted a quiet,peaceful protest. it was the cops who wanted a "fight"...

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:04 PM

yeah let me find it

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:04 PM

it was really interesting

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:04 PM

All protestors should start doing that from now on--wear gas masks and bullet-proof vests. Perhaps just all citizens of Ferguson...

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:04 PM

if this doesn't start the revolution, nothing will

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:04 PM★ Spotlighted

They are trying to keep journalists, photographers etc from being able to show what is going on past the "press zone"

Justin ClarkeAug 19, 2014, 11:04 PM

you guys heard about James Foley :(

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:04 PM★ Spotlighted

Why have so many cops become so stupid...is it partly due to their diet?

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:05 PM

almost as if they were bored and wanted something to happen. it was pathetic. grown men - and some women - wanting to gas their fellow folk.

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has! M, MEAD

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

their guns have become more powerful cos they have become more tubbier - so the gun has to shoot further...

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

I don't know that it's a racial thing there, though. I live in St Louis, and all the cops have been pretty brutal the past ten years, to blacks and whites alike.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:06 PM

here it is: http://maxineanwaar.tumblr.com/post/94691113630/protect-yourself-from-teargas-palestinians-send

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:06 PM

Its free speech and free press only if you promise not to tell, show or write the truth of any event otherwise you risk arrest and harassment.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:07 PM

they way it was going last night, it was the police presence that was creating the nastyness. if they werent there,it probably would have gone off without any trouble

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:07 PM★ Spotlighted

Cops with a hair trigger and bad attitude, treating normal citizens like criminals starts the problem every time.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:07 PM★ Spotlighted

brb please don't bill me by the minute

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:07 PM★ Spotlighted

I saw something from the former Seattle PD Chief who was in charge during 1999's battle for seattle and he says that Ferguson pd are repeating the same mistakes that Seattle pd made. that they should never have gone in with the military and riot gear

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:07 PM

Not in Nevada!

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:08 PM

Just like the cops killing the NY man selling cigarettes--way, way, over-the-top responses.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:08 PM★ Spotlighted

and what the hell were the SWAT teams there for? this aint freakin' Gaza or Iraq....but i guess they gotta practice somehow,somewhere,right?

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:09 PM

@Keef - if i could, i would be there

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

Military gear = army fighting the enemy, not police serving the community.

John SmithAug 19, 2014, 11:10 PM

Page won't display properly.

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

Almost every cop I've ever known as an adult has been former military. As a former Marine I can say that if you bring that elite us vs them mentality to the civilian police force you'll act with military force.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

really? that is just fucking nuts and so damn wrong. when did the friendly cop go? WHERE did he go? and yes,i guess i am saying it about here in the UK too

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:11 PM

I'd say the former. You respond to what you're confronted with.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

I served in the military in Iraq, and I will be honest. If we had done some of the things I am seeing in the images from Ferguson my unit would be in leavenworth now. They are using tactics against unarmed civillians that the army wouldnt use in war

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:11 PM

I hear police departments like to hire ex-military who are used to killing people now…they're more comfortable with the new, militarized vision of America.

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:11 PM

What is up with the KKK now solititating new members even from the black community to go against immigration?http://www.africanglobe.net/headlines/ku-klux-klan-work-blacks-fight-illegal-immigration/

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

altho, if the government stops giving post military gear to the cops, wouldnt a big corp buy it all up and sell it back to the police anyways?

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:12 PM

There ain't no more Officer Friendly!

Lisa Del ReyAug 19, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

So... I got nothing... I'm disgusted by everything at this point... Fucking shameful... Enough said...

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

That is true, and never against someone clearly unarmed with their hands up and you have what we call "strength of force".

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:13 PM

@EG - true. but it would be a chance for a big corp to make money,even from free stuff

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:13 PM

It is also a plan to Militarize the border Patrol with drones, and tanks.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:13 PM

John O did a great piece on the swat and their silliness the other night.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:14 PM

ah yes, the next best thing to the military - the police force. yeah, makes total sense

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:14 PM

It used to be that SWAT teams were the ones with specialized weapons, and the cops handled more domestic stuff. It should be that way. Keep Barney Fife's one bullet in his pocket, just in case.

Michelle ReneeAug 19, 2014, 11:14 PM

The town I grew up in has 3500 people in their township. The police chief just resigned after much pressure from the community. Pierce hired and trained nearly 40 reserve officers for his department, which has four full-time officers.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

The police case for it is that they need the equipment "because terrorism can happen anywhere." Along with their para military was on drugs

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:15 PM

protect & serve now suppress & contain

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee - wish that happened way more than it does

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

I thought we were broke? Broke not to create jobs, but not broke to deploy the Military and to declare martial law.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:15 PM

fuck peanuts!

Michelle ReneeAug 19, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

Small town I grew up in (3,500 people) just got their chief to quit over militarization and over staffing. http://www.freep.com/article/20140807/NEWS06/308070218/barry-township-police-chief-quits

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:16 PM

We're never broke for any type of conflict.

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

Rise of the Warrior Cop.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

we do we train them in hand to hand tactics is they aren't going to use them, I always thought it was starting to get beyond ridiculous when they started zip tying people, how inhumane can you get, aside from blatant abuse which we see too

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:16 PM

*why

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:16 PM

ost cops here in the UK don't want to be armed BUT there are lots who want them to be. mostly by those who have had relatives killed in the line of duty.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:17 PM

I sometimes wonder if the real escalation of the military police state is because they are afraid of how the masses will react as the economy sinks further as the US Govt continues to spend to protect corporate interests

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:17 PM★ Spotlighted

am I the only one who thinks narcissists are drawn to these positions of "power"? :p and then we wonder why they enjoy brutality

Lisa Del ReyAug 19, 2014, 11:17 PM★ Spotlighted

Things like this just confirm just how far we are from progressing into a better world. Those cops are your neighbors, brothers and sisters yet they stand there and do this because the Man told them too. WTF! C'mon... That shit is just depressing!

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:17 PM

And what about the fact that they then began shooting tear gas into people's homes, who weren't even part of the protest?

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:18 PM

america should fight iteslf...might be a battle they could win

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

Cops just need to dial it back a bit so they stop killing unarmed people! It's so fucking simple!

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

they need to screen those with a love of power out of law enforcement positions

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

yeah you are right lee

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:19 PM

my gun is bigger than...oih sorry, you don't seem to have one.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:19 PM

Hello all!

Michelle ReneeAug 19, 2014, 11:20 PM

"To serve and protect" THEMSELVES

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:20 PM

oh yeah, take care of your own and not those you are meant to protect.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:20 PM

hey Matt

Kathy GrinsladeAug 19, 2014, 11:20 PM

Hello, white Opossums!!! I am not going to be able to be on here long.. my two cents is FUCK THE POLICE!!!! The cops have got to stop the use of deadly force against our mentally ill and black citizens. We as whites have to insist on policy changes,

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:20 PM

I believe we have seen the end of the "civil servant" days and it's likely to get uglier before it gets better.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:20 PM★ Spotlighted

not the safety of the people, maybe if the police handled it correctly in the first place they wouldn't have to worry about people being angry, in a real democracy wouldn't they be out on their asses? these cops involved?

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:20 PM

The military industrial complex ey

Dennis OwenAug 19, 2014, 11:21 PM

Radical change is the only solution http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

i said to my friend "just doing my job" will be the battle song of the death of freedom

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:21 PM

It's not narcissists--it's those who lack empathy and felt powerless growing up, then disrespected by society at large. They become bullies and are attracted to violence.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:21 PM

FIAT MONEY IS THE FIRST ACT OF VIOLENCE AND OPPRESSION

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

thanks for the warning Eleanor, you can have it. just make me a footnote at least

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

keep the public under the thumb,and you can get them to do anything. problem is, the public aint buying it no more

Dennis OwenAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

The shoe fits

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

kill cops

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

the comparison does fit, except it isn't just our nation, the world is being run by these douchebags who love war because.. money of course and power

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

all of them

Lisa Del ReyAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

This is another distraction people... Keep your eyes overseas where the real action will be happening.

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

The propaganda is to keep American "MEDIA" eyes controlled, control what is seen, shoot journalist on the streets while they continue BOMBING Iraq, continue with Genocide in Ukraine (War with Russia), and Ethnic Cleansing in Palestine! So much death!

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

dont be a dick,ben

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:22 PM

that's what i'd be telling my followers in the ghetto, lee

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM

seriously

Kathy GrinsladeAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM

We have to change the local and community elections of police chiefs and sheriffs. We as whites have to demand changes happen through the political process.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM

i would

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

I would urge non violence as much as I could. But i have to be honest, I am at a loss

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM

they are accomplices at least

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM

sit back? kept silent more like

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM

non-violence by protesters is a must, this is the only way the militarization of police will look unjustified

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

The purpose of police is to keep the masses quiet so that the wealthy can live their lives in peace.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

would you say, lets protest because that has gotten us so much change in the past?

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:24 PM

did you see the video of the angry black guy telling all black people that its time to change the way they think.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:24 PM

lol guys, there's lots more people than there are cops

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

I was told by my HS history teacher that when an economy is bad go to war. It always perks up the economy. User he was right

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

it needs to be a sustainable protest too, like Eleanor said stage things in other parts of the city, I also say the people of Ferguson are also protesting with their wallets boycotting Ferguson stores

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:25 PM

Myself...my favorite has always been the Molotov and tires...love that stuff👍

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:25 PM

do you know that there are buddist monks going around killing militant muslims in asia?

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:25 PM

Sorry...I see he was right

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

buddhists are killing people!

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

PEACE is the only answer. Not guns, because they are looking for an excuse to complet the plans of the NWO! To get rid of the "fluff" and to kill off 9/10th of the world's population, If this doesn't do it, well there is always Fukushima.

Kathy GrinsladeAug 19, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

Community leaders should demand the policy of deadly force be eliminated. Shit, the Governors should be on this. We should put the responsibility for these murders on the political ringleaders, district attorneys, mayors, governors...

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:25 PM

Our Neo-Prussian training called Common Core, is dumbing down the population to accept obedience to a gradually globalizing world, into the dark pools of debt slavery. Kept in check by a jack booted enforcement agency.

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

The protests at least have people around the world looking at the problems here, are embarrassing the POTUS, and have him talking to Ferguson. The protests have done at least that. There's a new police chief there now.

Dennis OwenAug 19, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

Drug war keeping the economy going . yeah

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:26 PM

i got an idea. EMP lazer pointer pens. you can just drive around disabling police cars and shit

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:26 PM

that would stop those pigs

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

From my perspective, having been to war. Violence done by other side will only keep the cycle going. The police need to deescalate and their needs to be dialogue with the community

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:27 PM

READ DICTATORSHIP TO DEMOCRACY

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

from what i could see the community leaders were saying to the protesters to do what the police said, stay on the sidewalk. which they did. it was peaceful .no-one did anything.

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee, why does that not surprise me? I'm not getting a full economic recovery vibe this go round.

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

A true Buddhist must be on the Noble eight-fold path and must not kill anything. A true Buddhit will self-immolate for a powerful reason Eleanor.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

The only way to end the militarization of the police force is through public dissent.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:28 PM

but what is happening with the cop that killed this kid? is he getting charged? will he get charged? and with what? cos thats what most of the protesters want.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:28 PM

yeah a thorough investigation and suspension of the cop should be mandatory, this is not a ridiculous thing to ask

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:28 PM

Absolutely @Lee, but it never happens. Not in the case of Kelly Thomas, and not in any of the others

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:28 PM

PEOPLE POWER

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:28 PM

buddist monks fighting muslims - http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22356306

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:28 PM

they realize that the only way to peace is to eliminate hatred

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:29 PM

I'm all for cameras! If we could all go hidden cameras imagine what we'd shine the light on!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:29 PM

I would like to present what's up in my neck of the woods: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322562/-What-Could-Possibly-Go-Wrong-Just-Did-Georgia-s-Carry-Protection-Act-in-Action?detail=email

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:29 PM

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/ this was shared with me, shows Brown paying for his cigars, not sure but it looks legit

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

i think the only way to stop the police is to defund them, like congress does to kill a bill they dont like

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

but you dot eliminate hatred by killing people. that only makes it worse. for everyone

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:29 PM

Read From Dictatorship to Democracy by Gene Sharp. IT has 198 methods of nonviolent revolution to overthrow a dictatorship.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

The cycle of violence will never be ended by more violence. And we have a lot of history, like all of it, to back that up

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:30 PM

do we El?

Kathy GrinsladeAug 19, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

Cops and their their Chiefs should be held accountable for every murder they cause. Cops have got to stop being sheltered from the law by their District Attorneys and others.

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

We need policy to start collecting DATA on these kind of deaths, as of right now there is not data collection.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:30 PM

nothing is free, c'mon, you know that!

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:30 PM

cops and the people need to reconnect, a big wedge has been driven.. on purpose, divide and conquer

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:30 PM

no there can be no violence.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:30 PM★ Spotlighted

Look, I have been thinking a lot lately, as I got to the solidarity with Ferguson rallies, that the "Us and them" rhetoric is part of the problem.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM★ Spotlighted

we in the UK are getting cameras on cops.

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM★ Spotlighted

You mean The Freedom Act? Ha Ha Ha!

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM

there is so much fun & creative stuff to do.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM

We all have to own that it is intolerable for police to kill young black men at the statistical rate that they do.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM

Would it be fair to say that this is an integral problem, which is integrally connected to one or several other contingencies? Such as: economics, education, and cultural ethics?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM

That means police own it, too.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM

it all distracts from the fact we are all getting screwed, even the police

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM

And we invite the police into the discussion about how to make it stop.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM★ Spotlighted

That is another thing. that you @El for making me think of it. Where is the report, or dashboard cam or audio. You know the officer had that in his cruiser and if things happened the way they said you would think they would have brought that out

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:31 PM

Cameras on Cops not a takeover of people's home computers, and cell phone!

Kathy GrinsladeAug 19, 2014, 11:32 PM

Rebecca,,are you saying if the cops just lower the statistical numbers you are okay with the murders? I bet you don't mean that...do you?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

It's simple psychology that you act better when you know you will be held accountable.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:32 PM

@Thank you El, sorry typos are bad

Kathy GrinsladeAug 19, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

This is a racial thing and if you do not understand that, we can't really communicate the gravitas of the issue.

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:32 PM

No dashboard cams in Ferguson. Not enough tax dollars.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:32 PM

@ Kathy - no way! But that's the starting pint.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:32 PM

that seems suspicious in itself, because they are supposed to be on as long as the officer is on duty i though

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM

*point

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM

you could buy a drone (with a camera) on the web for about 68 pounds. How fun could that be?

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM

If so, my suggestion would be to start by educating others on these matters, and working with others to come up with alternative solutions to convention.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM

And it's important. Because cops need to think through WHAT in their thinking and training makes them more likely to shoot black men.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

the fact that he actively turned it off kind of says something right there

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM

i say stick Jersey Shore on the Front line

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM

The worst thing is we get no facts from any of the media sources. Only right or left opinion and distorted details for the target audience.

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM

Nellie was in Ferguson…but you're right, we could use a real celebrity presence!

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:33 PM

there should objectively be a separate entity that would regulate when cop cameras; when they are turned on and off and who store the data, so they can't act biased

Kathy GrinsladeAug 19, 2014, 11:34 PM

The only way this is gonna change and change quick is if the white's rise up to demand policy, change. The poor black community does not have the political clout.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

The way to solve these problems is through information, and action. What more is there to say. We all know things are bad, you just have to Get MAD!!

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:34 PM

Think about what is happening to inner city families. fathers are being killed and thrown in jail. this cycle perpetuates violence. this all goes back to education and family values

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:34 PM

Why can't we just get the scoop on what happened by/to whom, when, where...?

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:34 PM

i saw that on John Oliver. the mayor looks lost

edie angeloAug 19, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

I don't care if cops have riot gear. We just need to get the cops on our side. a LOT OF POLICE (AS WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO VOLUNTEER FOR THE ARMED FORCES ARE DAMAGED ANGRY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET THEIR HANDS ON A GUN.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:34 PM

everyone should be mad. if you're not mad, you are asleep

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:34 PM★ Spotlighted

I heard a story that made me cry today because it was policing done right: Police in San Antonio have made a special unitl to deal with people who have mental illness. SO they don't just get arrested or taken to the ER. They go to atreatment facility

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:35 PM

At this point I see Gov Nixon going down as this generations George Wallace

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:35 PM

Then lets change the system, lets really make things different. Lets be what every generation has been before us, but more informed and more ablaze than ever!

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

I don't think this was necessarily racial. I'm white, and the've run up on me a few times too! For something stupid, like an expired registration. I'm telling you guys, the police here are really "crazy." PTSD or something.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:36 PM

the way mentally disabled people are treated by police is disgusting and the ADA should get involved.

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:36 PM

Lets get on the conversation of RACE and Genocide. What are your thoughts! IS Ebola being used as a military weapon of mass destruction abroad (on Black people in Africa)? While the CDC has patents on the virus, it make you wonder.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

as if they are very in turn with how many minorities they need in the force not to be subject to any discrimination laws, MO isn't known for it's racially forward thinking to begin with

Chris OwensAug 19, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

Sorry to hear that bill was so quickly defeated

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

why does it take a killing to make people wake up and realise how shit things are? THAT is what niggles at me.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:36 PM

The police have been given far too many powers that are too far reaching and vague. And while we here are totally against it, the sad, sad part is there is a portion of the population that buys into their politics of fear

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:37 PM

That's the problem with hiring ex-military--too quick on the trigger. They think everyone's got a bomb!

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:37 PM

why are there so many fat cops tho?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:37 PM

I take advantage of the fact that I look like a white elementary school teacher. Cops do not hassle me. I get away with all kinds of subversion, just because I act like nothing is wrong. I know it's fucked up that I can climb a fence but a black pers

Kathy GrinsladeAug 19, 2014, 11:37 PM

Bye, you lucky white babies!!! T

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:37 PM

@Tim which is why we have regulations and policies in place, now if we could just find a way for people to STICK to these things... maybe a pizza party every friday? :p

Paul MartinAug 19, 2014, 11:37 PM

Police should be held accountable for their action no matter what, If they kill with out cause , jail time! NO police force should have military on them at any time, if it is needed it should be called for by a commanding police official.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:38 PM

person may not be able to walk down the street.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

I am ex military and when I left I was offered positions with law enforcement. I turned them down because I knew that my psyche issues from combat would make me a horrible cop.

Dennis OwenAug 19, 2014, 11:38 PM

Where still slaves

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:38 PM

It is really sad Rebecca, we are back in the 60's... we have learned almost NOTHING

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

I have to wonder though, how many with worse issues than mine have taken those positions and are part of the reason we are seeing such escalation

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

What prevents the aggregate from unifying as a mass in self-defense against such a domestic threat?

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

obviously classism comes into play here too.. it is about power over powerless

Dennis OwenAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

If they want killers

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

@ Tim - well, with the rate of veteran unemployment, I'm sure a lot of them take those jobs!

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

They try to offer ex military anything like that that they can to help them transition back to civilian life.

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

KKK Reaches Out To Black Community In Efforts Against Undocumented Immigrants - See more at: http://madamenoire.com/450624/kkk-reaches-african-american-comhttp://madamenoire.com/450624/kkk-reaches-african-american-community-fight-illegal-immigration/

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

Blackwater, XE Corp., police dept., justice.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

WTF, KKK???

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

so how can we debate these issues and we all wonder why, topic after topic, week after week, why things are happening like this. these things make no sense. no normal person with any power would allow these things to continue?

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

question - did the police last night incite a riot? is that not against the law? ...wait,they are above the law (hits head on desk).

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

Rachel check this out http://www.scribd.com/doc/237069870/Cloud-Theory-of-Economics

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

That's *almost* hilarious!

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

it's a trap!

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

is it not an obvious hidden agenda, or should i say....consipracy?

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

thanks Mattrick I'll take a look

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

Who are the Illuminati? Jokes on you, you are the Illuminati!

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

MF, good benefits, join our gang, we treat you good. better to be on the inside. just doing my job.

Cameron KokujinkunAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

Everyone has PTSD! It's like that scene in "Team America" where they have the play "Everybody has AIDS!" Lol.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

MF - I don't know why anyone would want to be any kind of employee of the system - you can't even teach these days and not feel like an asshat!

Dennis OwenAug 19, 2014, 11:41 PM

They want trained killers

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

They thing that the experiance will help., and maybe to a degree they are right, but when you take someone who has seen alot of death and bloodshed, they may not be psychologically capable of doing the job conscientiously

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

Sorry had to open some chickpeas. My brother called me right after switching off Fox news to tell me "the kid was a thug & robbed a store just before". I am so sick of media outlets fencing facts for ratings. All they've done is stir the unrest

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:41 PM

Once again Prussian Education

Cameron KokujinkunAug 19, 2014, 11:41 PM

How many of most cops served in the military at one time? If we're not in a time of war, aren't they ALL going to be back in the U.S and have to take jobs similar to military work?

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:41 PM

It was C.S. Lewis who said that when training beats education, civilization dies.

edie angeloAug 19, 2014, 11:42 PM

Rachel McDonnell WE are not back in the sixties. I was back in the sixties but this is a whole new generation that needs to learn what those of us who WERE in the sixties learned first hand. As long a people are poor there will be more

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:42 PM

@ Cameron: I actuallythink we DO all have PTSD. Studies show that your brain responds to fictional images of death and violence with emotional responses like those of witnessing REAL violence!

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:42 PM

do these type of cops only come out at night? and why? why dont you see them at protests - like occupy. maybe i am not seeing much but thats just what ive seen. correct me if i'm wrong

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:42 PM

he looked like a thug. who knows how he acted tho

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:42 PM

who cares. he must be destroyed!

edie angeloAug 19, 2014, 11:42 PM

anger and politicians are deliberately working to turn the people against each other. And it is working

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

Psychology of the military and the police force is almost the same.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM

what media coverage? only mdeia coverage i ahve seen, and ones worth watching,ave been from the live streams and indie jorunos

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM

We were marching in solidarity on SUnday and some guy in a business suit walked buy and said, 'He was a felon!" Bullshit! A felony is decided AT TRIAL!

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM

so there's all these "patriot" groups on facebook that continually call for revolution.....unless its started by blacks. then the guy was a thug and they're all looting scumbags

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM

Police training is much more ruthless and inhumane.

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM

Lucy, the National Guard's been called in for night time stuff because that's when the protestors go to the sidewalks and the rioters and looters take over.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

you gotta keep people on point when talking about this, like you said just because you are a "thug" in someone's eyes doesn't mean you deserve to be shot to death when you weren't even armed or a threat

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

I am not in law enforcement. I cant go to a theatre to watch a movie. If RR played Seattle I couldnt go see it, or same with Lee. Because of my ptsd.I freak out when surrounded by people. I cant imagine being a cop with gear and authority over people

edie angeloAug 19, 2014, 11:43 PM

people still believe that the DEMS are the good guys and on the side of the people. It's a dog and pony show of good cop/bad cop NONE of them are on the side of the people

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:44 PM

and everyone deserves the right to a trial, innocent before proven guilty.. yeah we need that back

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:44 PM

@Kayliyn - then thats wrong. and you gotta ask why.

Rich CarrAug 19, 2014, 11:44 PM

It's hard to imagine, looking on from here in Australia, that this should ever happen anywhere outside of a warzone.

Cameron KokujinkunAug 19, 2014, 11:44 PM

Every single symptom of PTSD is being exhibited by both sides. That's what I really think about this situation? I'd really like to know if others agree or disagree with that?

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:44 PM

Impeach our congress, abolish our Federal Reserve, and restore our sovereignty.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:45 PM

In 1868, the united states became a corporation.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:45 PM

don't they ever think that by giving police increased militarized powers and supplies that this could cause these police to become hyper-sensitive of danger as well, thus just creating more aggression

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:45 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee: exactly! We've gone right past the due process and the fact that certain people think that's ok are dangerous as well as a red flag as to the nature of our society. When is it ok to be judge, jury & executioner?

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:45 PM

Lucy, what's wrong? National Guardsmen trying to protect the community from looters? The looters aren't protesting, they just show up at night while the police are distracted and rob stores, then set them on fire.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:45 PM

WE ALL HAVE PTSD! We see thousands of scenes of violence per week!

Dennis OwenAug 19, 2014, 11:45 PM

million man march on Ferguson

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM

I am fusking serious!

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM

trouble is tho rebecca, we are slowly becoming immune to it. well,some are.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM

The history of industry is central to the development of this complex complex. To combat the rising tide of tyranny, we must stand together with understanding.

Rich CarrAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM

Is the police mobilization organized at purely a state level or is there an overseeing countrywide control behind this?

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

I found ways to deal, that is why I stat out in the forest and photograph wildlife. I took time to find what worked for me, but alot of people coming out and taking these jobs arent doing it. they are just taking what is offered without considering

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM

@Tim good luck to you, can't imagine having to go through that... <3

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM

There are varying degrees of PTSD, most of it controllable.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM

i get what rebecca is saying tho. hollywood and tv have brought war right into the home.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

if they are pscyhologically prepared for it

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:47 PM★ Spotlighted

Many police forces lack the money to properly treat PTSD or screen for it.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:48 PM

PTSD is only controllable with ALOT of attention to it, which is usually not affordable or available to veterans or very difficult for people to get help for, understandably, it isn't something to make light of, it shows how sensitive wearetoviolence

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:48 PM

That's not what studies say. Studies show that the parts of the brain that are activated by witnessing REAL violence are ALSO activated by viewing fictional violence. Remember: we are a species that thrives on STORIES - because we have EMPATHY.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

the resources for PTSD for vets is drugs. Thats what they did with me and it left me as my friends said, "almost cult leader like" everything was sunny

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

but it was a false reality and when I came off the drugs I tried to commit suicide

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

how many vets commit suicide daily? more than are killed in battle.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:48 PM

This is not to minimize the experiences of veterans, only to draw attention to the effects of media saturation.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:48 PM

ugh I heard that too Tim, it is disgraceful they are pushing pills instead of actual mental health :(

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:49 PM

PTSD is a phenomenon that has started to appear in the average population due to war. However, the only other common reason for this response is familial trauma.

Dennis OwenAug 19, 2014, 11:49 PM

Ex vet murdered the kid with a bb gun in San Jose

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:49 PM

You sometimes don't even know you have PTSD until an 'incident' occurs. YOu just think you're grumpy, or jumpy.

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:49 PM

I always say, if you want to know what war is REALLY like? Ask the ones who come back completely disillusioned... they know exactly what is up

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:49 PM

A primary reason for suicide is previous trauma.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

and how do we treat them when tehy come back? we cut their benefits, make them use the most overbooked hospitals, pay them literally shit.

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:49 PM

Weed is an excellent treatment for PTSD!

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:50 PM

weed is an excellent treatment for LIFE

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

But now you have them, with the same gear from their war experiances, going through city streets, like we did in war

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:50 PM

So is ayahausca.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:50 PM

So is self reflection.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

random unscientific stat: most homeless people in the USA are veterens

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:51 PM

i'd like to see some homeless cops if you know what i mean

Rich CarrAug 19, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

Are the police forces privatized like companies in each state of the US or are they governmental?

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:52 PM

I don't think humans are innately wired for violence or war. I also don't believe you ever are prepared for the scale of violence seen today in war and on our streets.

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:52 PM

The military must be propped up on the popular culture, but when it comes to the veterans, whats a veteran?

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

Rich, mostly public but they are using private compnaies also now

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

I find it a curious mindset, because my time led me to guilt and grief and led me to wanting to be a force for positive change in the world. but if i had taken a job in law right out, i can only imagine how I would treat peopple

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:52 PM

well it is sort of a prerequisite in the military at least to NOT as questions, so protesters would be strange to them, because we are questioning things

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:52 PM

There's always desensitization but I believe PTSD is the humanity scarred by violence trying to cope and rise above.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:53 PM

I found out from some older gentlemen who had previously lived in St. Louis that Ferguson used to belong to St. Louis, but to save tax money, they made them an independent district.

Rich CarrAug 19, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

So the response we are seeing is purely local government or is it now higher up considering the scale and media coverage?

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:53 PM

here, a town in minnesota privatized their police force http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-11-14/police-private-security-foley/51194090/1

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

The current response is I think a combination of local and state

Jose CervantesAug 19, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

Where is the NRA in all this, while the incident in Bundy Ranch in Nevada went well in their stand off, or is it a double standard???

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:53 PM

@ Ben: WHat could possibly go wrong?

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM

are you fucking kidding me Foley, MN is like 5 mins for me WHAT??

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM

obama took a week to make a statement. wtf is up with that?

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM

I better watch my ass

John HenryAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM

as william s. burroughs once said : This is a war universe. War all the time. That is its nature. There may be other universes based on all sorts of other principles, but ours seems to be based on war and games.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM

@Jose: NRA is white people.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM

seeing someone gassed and shot at, even on live stream, is scary assed shit

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

I have been wondering about that too. All the people who were screaming about freedom being taken away when it came to guns are silent on this

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM

I don't think the NRA defends blacks.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:54 PM

the NRA defends gun owners, not races

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:55 PM

or worse, because I have seen many ugly racist comments that I will not go into, I am sure everyone has seen similar

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:55 PM

I get that this is for venting, but how are we being constructive to solving this overarching problem of a militarizing nation?

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:55 PM

the fact of the matter is that most legal gun owners are white. like 100million

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:55 PM

Yeah where is Ted cat scratch fever?

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:56 PM

i like the illinois law that allows you to shoot a cop who enters your house illegally ie without announcing he's a cop or a no knock raid

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:56 PM

They got a chance to try out their new LRAD machine…I'm sure they got a woody over that.

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

I wonder if it was because the home owner was a gun owner or if the home owner was being raided for something else and happened to own a gun

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:56 PM

we need more citizens with guns, tbh

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:56 PM

non-violent peaceful protest + disablement of misinformation + empathy and compassion for EVERYONE

Rich CarrAug 19, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

Excuse my ignorance of the US hierarchy but, and knowing full well the President is usually only a figurehead and doesn't hold real power, where does the buck stop with the decision making on how this is all handled?

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

And that is why I live in Washington lol

John HenryAug 19, 2014, 11:57 PM★ Spotlighted

i demand the right to own a personal nuclear missile!

Mattrick HolbertAug 19, 2014, 11:57 PM

Coming this Fall: The War On Us

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:57 PM

Love Washington, man, I'm jealous! I should get the fuck outta St. Louis and go there for while to chill out!

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:57 PM

Rich- rogue agencies like the FBI, CIA and others are supposed to be accountable to congress, but congress is a bunch of moneywhipped bitches

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM

@Mattrick people would watch that show, but never get the connection to real life lol

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM

This is how many timhttp://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-18/how-many-times-british-cops-fired-guns-all-last-year-3es British cops fired guns all of last year: 3 -

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM

Rich Carr: it isn't handled. We aren't very different from you when it comes to Congressional ineptitude. We have the best money government can buy!

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

Its weird, becauseI go out and spend weeks with my bears in the wilderness. and then come back to things like this.

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM

Oops best government money can buy.

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM

there's a difference between being able to protect your family and owning nuclear missiles

Rich CarrAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

Cheers. Thanks for letting the little people be a part of something meaningful. :)

Rachel McDonnellAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

Thanks for the tawk Lee and Eleanor! :)

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:58 PM

This is how many times British cops fired guns all of last year: 3 http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-18/how-many-times-british-cops-fired-guns-all-last-year-3

Johnathonfall thethirdAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Keep doing what you are doing Lee.

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM

Yeah, Tim, aren't you glad to be back in Civilized society? Ha!

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM

That was a great Tawk. I hope everyone has a good night and take time in between all the bad things happening to breathe, I love you all

Ben HertzAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM

thanks for hosting lee and eleanor. see you guys next week!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM

Thanks, guys!

Kailyn KyleAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM

Thanks, guys, it was fun!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

@ Tim - Thank you for your service.

Lucy DyerAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM

thanks for the tawk Lee and Eleanor.

Kristen IngmanAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM

John Henry: you might be able to find one at a gun show and hey, no background check!

edie angeloAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM

Both my brother and sister-in-law taught for 30 years in an inner city school sistem. They are white, students primarily black. Most of the other teachers were minorities as well. Parents are all on drugs, won't participate in child rearing and swear

Tim HayesAug 19, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Thanks everyone. good night

Kristen IngmanAug 20, 2014, 12:00 AM

Thanks Eleanor and Lee. See ya next week!

Rich CarrAug 20, 2014, 12:00 AM

Come down to Brisbane for the G20 guys. We are sooo looking forward to it. :/

edie angeloAug 20, 2014, 12:01 AM

at the teachers and hang up the phone rather than engage with teachers. We need busing again but not the way it was done. You have to SHUT down the dangerous schools and bus all kids to better environments They have NOTHING to strive for in inner cit

Kristen IngmanAug 20, 2014, 12:02 AM

Tim Hayes: I'm glad you find peace in the forests. That's where we go for ours as well. Photography is his passion also so if you ever need a chat look for a couple old Marines in here

Barry HamillAug 20, 2014, 12:09 AM

shit i missed it

jasmine TaylorAug 20, 2014, 4:12 AM

Hey

rachel atwoodAug 20, 2014, 7:30 AM

greetings from the other side of the fence :)

rachel atwoodAug 20, 2014, 7:31 AM

hopefully I'll be able to catch you next time

javion mcdougaldAug 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

Hhh

edo ekongAug 21, 2014, 8:27 PM

maryianna wyssAug 22, 2014, 4:56 AM

Anusheel BhushanAug 22, 2014, 5:36 AM

Hi everyone

Tia EberlyAug 22, 2014, 4:04 PM

Tia EberlyAug 22, 2014, 4:05 PM

Kristin KaskAug 23, 2014, 8:52 PM

Grace MaHaffeyAug 24, 2014, 4:56 PM