Blake Ian

Host

Net Smart: How to Thrive Online

May 22, 2013·259 visitors

Howard Rheingold

Cohost

Stage· 119 messages

May 22, 2013

Social media and communications legend Howard Rheingold, credited with inventing the term "Virtual Community", stops by to Tawk about his latest book, "Net Smart: How to Thrive Online" with Tawkers Founder Blake Ian. Rheingold discusses the importance of using social media intelligently, humanely, and, above all, mindfully. "How can we use digital media so that they make us empowered participants rather than passive receivers? Grounded, well-rounded people rather than multitasking basket cases?"

Blake Ian · 2:00 AM

Good evening Mr. Rheingold, welcome to Tawkers... it is SUCH an honor to have you stop by and Tawk!

Howard Rheingold · 2:02 AM

It's my pleasure to communicate with people who share my interest in social media literacies

Blake Ian · 2:02 AM

Well I certainly do!

Blake Ian · 2:02 AM

Tonight we will be tawking about your newest book, Net Smart: How to Thrive Online

Blake Ian · 2:03 AM

A book I have spent the last couple of weeks with... (I like to go slow)

Howard Rheingold · 2:03 AM

Excellent. What do you want to know?

Blake Ian · 2:03 AM

Well as I think most of us know...

Blake Ian · 2:04 AM

As every brand, businessman, personality, educator and the rest of humanity continue their race to figure out how to best use social media and new technologies, I don’t think you really need to explain the importance of this book...

Blake Ian · 2:04 AM

But since we are here...(though I guess we can’t prove that) How about a quick word on why it’s so key today for people to “learn to use the media that have infiltrated, amplified, distracted, enriched, and complicated our lives.”

Howard Rheingold · 2:05 AM

It hardly makes sense to complain that your automobile doesn't take you any place interesting or useful if you haven't learned how to drive and read a map.

Howard Rheingold · 2:06 AM

So there is an immediate understanding that social media enable many to many communication around shared interests, that search can find answers to any question, that various collaboration platforms enable people to do things together in ways...

Howard Rheingold · 2:06 AM

that were not possible before. But the real power of online media -- for the individual and for society -- depends on a critical mass of the online population gaining a deeper and broader understanding.

Howard Rheingold · 2:07 AM

The capital costs of wiring up the world and getting powerful media into the hands of billions were very high. The cost of helping more of those people learn how to use the media at our disposal is much lower.

Howard Rheingold · 2:08 AM

And there is no guarantee that social media will end up being good for our thinking, our social relationships, our democracies, if this literacy does not become widespread.

Howard Rheingold · 2:09 AM

From dataveillance to griefers to porn, spam, and just bad information, there are plenty of ways that online media can be dangerous and destructive.

Howard Rheingold · 2:09 AM

Educating people about how to empower themselves personally and also contribute to improving the commons seemed to me to be an important thing for someone who has been around as long as I have to do.

Blake Ian · 2:10 AM

So it's a responsibility as well as a beneficial practice

Howard Rheingold · 2:11 AM

Absolutely. Just as knowing how to filter facts out of propaganda is a responsibility for citizens of a democracy. And with so much money going into deception, that isn't necessarily easy to do these days.

Blake Ian · 2:12 AM

Totally agree and that has always been a key motivator in our work here at Tawkers...

Blake Ian · 2:12 AM

It's quite serendipitous that you mentioned the complaints right away in your response.

Blake Ian · 2:12 AM

My next question that I have for you is...

Blake Ian · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Was just reading his article on The Well - very similar in spirit to Tawkers.”

Blake Ian · 2:13 AM

We are all constantly hearing the complaint that advancements in technology somehow rob us of our abilities. They weaken our abilities to memorize, socialize, decipher etc.

Blake Ian · 2:13 AM

Several times throughout Net Smart you mention Nicholas Carr’s article / question “Is Google Making Us Stupid?” ... Well Is it?!

Howard Rheingold · 2:14 AM

I don't locate agency in technology, but in people. It's certainly true that the fascination with communicating can cause people to die while texting and driving. If you Google for medical info without knowing how to think critically about what you..

Howard Rheingold · 2:14 AM

find, you might end up dead. Again, do you blame the automobile or the person who hasn't learned to drive or read a map?

Blake Ian · 2:15 AM

I'd have to go with the person

Blake Ian · 2:15 AM

the question always makes me think of Einstein’s quote “Never remember anything you can look up”

Blake Ian · 2:15 AM

haha

Howard Rheingold · 2:16 AM

I do think that the complexity and unknown (to many people) pitfalls of using new media are a force to be reckoned with. Like John Dewey a century ago, I believe that better educated netizens is the only practical answer. We can't uninvent the tools.

Blake Ian · 2:16 AM

Exactly, trying to fight the wave of progress and change is futile.

Blake Ian · 2:17 AM

Learning to surf however!

Howard Rheingold · 2:17 AM

Knowing how to search -- and to evaluate what you find -- is a huge huge step in human culture, just as using writing to encode knowledge was, 6000 years ago.

Howard Rheingold · 2:17 AM

But too many people trust the information they find when they search without looking at it critically.

Howard Rheingold · 2:18 AM

The most important digital divide now is between those who know how to think for themselves and critically evaluate information and those who only know how to follow one authority or another.

Blake Ian · 2:19 AM

On the flip side...

Blake Ian · 2:19 AM

Throughout your career you have written about and been fascinated by technologies that improve our mental and social abilities... I am a big fan of Lumosity, the brain training software. Have you used it?

Howard Rheingold · 2:20 AM

I have not, but I've noticed it, and with your recommendation I am more likely to try it out. Why do you like it?

Blake Ian · 2:21 AM

Well I only recently in the past 2 years began physical training, and the difference it has made is incredible

Blake Ian · 2:22 AM

and it just seems like a no brainer, excuse the pun, that this type of disciplined practice should be applied to mental exercise

Howard Rheingold · 2:22 AM

I have a lot of physical routines. I walk, stretch, do yoga and qi gong

Howard Rheingold · 2:22 AM

I've also tried to shape my mental routines

Howard Rheingold · 2:23 AM

Don't get in flamewars in blog comment threads or arguments on Twitter, for example .-)

Blake Ian · 2:23 AM

April 30th marked 2 years for me of practicing Transcendental Meditation twice a day every day...

Howard Rheingold · 2:23 AM

But also, I ask myself what I am paying attention to and why -- try to develop a habit of metacognition in regard to where I put my attention online.

Howard Rheingold · 2:24 AM

There you are. I practice mindfulness meditation -- just returning to the breath and observing the flow of thoughts and feelings without judgement.

Howard Rheingold · 2:24 AM

How I could have gone for 50 years without spending a few minutes watching thoughts arise and drift away amazes me.

Blake Ian · 2:25 AM

hahah I feel the same way about my first 30

Howard Rheingold · 2:25 AM

Most people spend a lot of their time thinking and almost no time observing the flow of their thoughts.

Blake Ian · 2:25 AM

Which is why I took my 11 year old nephew to the TM center a month ago

Blake Ian · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“lol - I've always wanted someone to do a study of the physiological effects of a nasty twitter war.”

Blake Ian · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Zinn

“Does anyone else think "BORG" when looking at http://www.google.com/glass/”

Howard Rheingold · 2:25 AM

In that sense -- I'm always accused of being an optimist -- any kind of mindfulness about how one is directing attention online is significantly better than no mindfulness at all.

Howard Rheingold · 2:26 AM

So far, we've touched on two of the essential literacies in Net Smart -- attention and crap detection

Howard Rheingold · 2:26 AM

THere's also participation, collaboration, and network know-how.

Blake Ian · 2:27 AM

Let's look at collaboration for a minute

Blake Ian · 2:27 AM

You look at crowdsourcing a bit in the book as well. What are some of the most interesting and promising initiatives you have seen so far?

Howard Rheingold · 2:28 AM

Citizen science is a winner in many ways -- in terms of helping real science get done, of involving people.

Howard Rheingold · 2:28 AM

stanford.folding.edu and foldit, galaxy zoo, are a couple that come to mind

Howard Rheingold · 2:29 AM

There are the efforts by Ushahidi and Swiftriver to crowdsource testing of factual claims in fast-moving story-rumors on Twitter.

Howard Rheingold · 2:29 AM

Crowdsourcing is one of many collaboration literacies.

Howard Rheingold · 2:29 AM

Virtual communities, from support communities to knowledge communities.

Blake Ian · 2:30 AM

We actually have a Tawk coming up soon with Andy Carver from NPR, who has a huge following based on his news tweeting

Howard Rheingold · 2:30 AM

Smart mobs, political and otherwise.

Blake Ian · 2:30 AM

the subject is actually how much good vs bad social media news is creating

Howard Rheingold · 2:30 AM

Commons based peer production -- Wikipedia, open source software, the Web itself.

Blake Ian · 2:30 AM

Open source is a pretty incredible movement isn't it?

Howard Rheingold · 2:31 AM

Social media enables millions of people to become reporters, and, like search, the power it bestows depends on a critical mass of people who know how to check veracity before retweeting -- triangulation is a key skill.

Howard Rheingold · 2:32 AM

Will the role of social media in news end up being an amplifier for misinformation and accelerator of rumors, or will it help journalists crowdsource reporting? It depends on how many ppl know h ow.

Blake Ian · 2:32 AM

and until then, likely both

Howard Rheingold · 2:32 AM

I don't think most people understand how much of the Internet depends on software that was created to be free and available to everyone.

Blake Ian · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Hauptman

“little known fact- those annoying captcha boxes with mostly illiterate text are actually used to help digitize books...captchas are a method of crowdsourcing OCR :)”

Howard Rheingold · 2:33 AM

From the BIND software that attaches IP numbers to human-readable URLS, to the Web protocols.

Howard Rheingold · 2:33 AM

Apache web servers.

Blake Ian · 2:33 AM

Well I guess it's not very different from other great advancements in arts and science right? They usually come from people working for free

Blake Ian · 2:34 AM

not for pay

Howard Rheingold · 2:34 AM

And of course Google is a valuable company and public good largely because of the economics of using vast numbers of cheap linux boxes.

Howard Rheingold · 2:35 AM

There's a balance between voluntary contribution to public goods and the profit motive. A lot of valuable private wealth has been created because the Internet is a commons that anyone can join, modify, or contribute to.

Howard Rheingold · 2:36 AM

I do think that "caveat emptor" is increasingly important in light of dataveillance and playbor -- who is watching you in exchange for free information, what info about you are they selling others, who profits when you "like" something?

Blake Ian · 2:36 AM

I didn't even know until about a year or so ago that Mozilla is a non-profit organization!

Howard Rheingold · 2:36 AM

I'm an enthusiast, but we all need to be critical enthusiasts.

Blake Ian · 2:37 AM

As you said before, critical thinking is the key divide, without it we are at the mercy of the trends

Blake Ian · 2:37 AM

I'd like to jump to another subject from Net Smart for a minute

Howard Rheingold · 2:38 AM

Blake Ian · 2:38 AM

You discuss the interval of time between the invention of a revolutionary technology and the actual revolution. Your example is the the printing press, and the sociological changes that followed.

Blake Ian · 2:39 AM

’m curious what your thoughts are, if any, on how this interval and the resulting changes on society may have have been effected considering the current rapid rate at which a new technology is introduced, developed and made available world wide.

Howard Rheingold · 2:39 AM

Well, yes. Elizabeth Eisenstein is the master of the changes initiated by print literacy 500 years ago.

Howard Rheingold · 2:40 AM

I'm concerned, just as the Toffler's were in 1970 when they wrote "Future Shock," that the pace of change is breaking things. Breaking social norms, breaking institutions, breaking the ability of individuals to cope. Certainly, fundamentalism around

Howard Rheingold · 2:41 AM

the world is one reaction to the shocking pace of change that started with the transition to modernity -- industrialism, urbanism, technological society, capitalism, corporatism, powerful states.

Howard Rheingold · 2:42 AM

I don't see educating people about digital literacies as the cure to all these issues, but it does seem to me to be something practical and affordable that most people can do to effect positive change.

Howard Rheingold · 2:42 AM

So don't just read Net Smart -- tell your friends to read it. ;-)

Blake Ian · 2:42 AM

Haha

Blake Ian · 2:42 AM

its a moral imperative!

Howard Rheingold · 2:42 AM

And if you are a teacher, use it to create curriculum.

Howard Rheingold · 2:43 AM

I made several Google docs available for anyone who wants to create a syllabus for teaching high school or college students, so my remark isn't entirely tongue in cheek.

Blake Ian · 2:43 AM

That is excellent

Howard Rheingold · 2:44 AM

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1whawicjQdSDh1ohWF4-CDnSrrpkjfFtnpc6632vGBvg/edit

Blake Ian · 2:44 AM

You mentioned a term before...

Blake Ian · 2:44 AM

“Every man should have a built in automatic crap detector operating inside him”nWho said that and what does it mean to you in terms of modern technology?

Blake Ian · 2:44 AM

Is that back to critical thinking?

Howard Rheingold · 2:44 AM

And there is the meta-issue of how we are going to learn emerging literacies quickly even though educational institutions are slow to change.

Howard Rheingold · 2:44 AM

My response to that issue is the peeragogy project http://peeragogy.org

Howard Rheingold · 2:45 AM

The quote is attributed to Hemingway, and it means that we live in an era where the answer to any question is accessible within seconds, anywhere you are -- but it's up to you to determine the veracity of the answers.

Blake Ian · 2:46 AM

Right, so I guess we well covered that, but I loved that the quote was in Net Smart so I wanted to get it in to the Tawk!

Blake Ian · 2:46 AM

Before we wrap... on a personal note.

Blake Ian · 2:46 AM

I learned that we share a mutual hero recently.... Alan Watts has influenced my work in technology, music, self improvement and all around grooviness! When did you first discover Mr Watts?

Blake Ian · 2:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Adam Densky

“Alan Watts is a revalation”

Howard Rheingold · 2:49 AM

That's a good story. Imagine Phoenix Arizona in 1961. (Opening scene of Psycho)

Howard Rheingold · 2:49 AM

I was 14.

Howard Rheingold · 2:49 AM

There was something called "educational television." I was watching it one day when something weird happened.

Howard Rheingold · 2:50 AM

There was this guy in a kimono, sitting in an empty room, silent. He slowly reached for a cup of tea and sipped.

Howard Rheingold · 2:50 AM

Then he started talking about Zen. I went to the bookstore to look for books by Alan Watts and discovered the Tao te Ching as well. It certainly was a transformative moment in my life.

Howard Rheingold · 2:51 AM

This has been fun. Good luck with Tawkers. It's a critical mass issue -- when you get hundreds of people in a Tawk it will get interesting.

Blake Ian · 2:52 AM

Thanks Howard! Thanks for taking it for a spin! It has been a surreal treat for me and I'm sure the entire audience!

Blake Ian · 2:52 AM

Be well.

Howard Rheingold · 2:53 AM

Bye!

Blake Ian · 9:49 PM

Hey Hunter... I stop by my older Tawks here and there, happy to respond to any comments still! Hope you enjoyed reading the Tawk between Howard and I

Blake Ian · 9:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Hunter Elizabeth

“Ugh missed the tawk”

Blake Ian · 9:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Hunter Elizabeth

“By a year and 4 days lolol”

Forum · 49

Forum· 49 comments

259 visitors

Tawkers AdminMay 22, 2013, 1:11 AM

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Tawkers AdminMay 22, 2013, 1:11 AM

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Jordan SudyMay 22, 2013, 2:00 AM

A hero of ours at Tawkers!

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:02 AM★ Spotlighted

Was just reading his article on The Well - very similar in spirit to Tawkers.

Andrei BermanMay 22, 2013, 2:05 AM

curious when he says "learn to use" how he's referring to the concept of "use." Not trying to be all like epistomological here...just wondering if he thinks we ought to understand the social dynamics of these platforms or if he means we should under

Andrei BermanMay 22, 2013, 2:05 AM

stand the programming/technology of it all

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:08 AM

I heard someone at Pinkberry making fun of some guy for using e-mail. As if the guy was writing in hieroglyphics.

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:09 AM

What's the best case scenario for people reaching a certain level of sophistication? What would we be hoping for?

Jordan SudyMay 22, 2013, 2:10 AM

I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on how you feel the Tawkers experience helps engender the sort of broader and deeper understanding that you speak of

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:11 AM

sorry late........but lets get this going

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:12 AM

Alkways wondered why the responsibility came down to the citizen to filter and not the corporation from deceiving.

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:14 AM

Howards Comment about there is no gurantee that social media will end up being good for our thinking.....hits home

Andrei BermanMay 22, 2013, 2:14 AM

I'm curious to hear what he has to say about online platforms being used as a means to foment offline action. And whether or not the uniqueness of online discourse either helps of hurts offline action

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:14 AM

who is right and wrong with that comment

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:15 AM

love the fact he brought up the text and drive......does that effect his thoughts

Andrei BermanMay 22, 2013, 2:16 AM

Curious too, whether he ever fears that technologists themselves will be used as a means of suppressing the masses by manipulating technology to ends desired by folks in power

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:17 AM

you say cant uninvent the tools, but dont you think they can be changed???

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:18 AM

Do people subconsciuously choose to be naive because it's more comfortable?

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:19 AM

but does ones job dicate on their on how they evaluate info?

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:22 AM

acknowledgement.......and successsssss

Michael ZinnMay 22, 2013, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

Does anyone else think "BORG" when looking at http://www.google.com/glass/

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

lol - I've always wanted someone to do a study of the physiological effects of a nasty twitter war.

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:27 AM

If someone is accusing you of being an optimist, doesn't that make that person a dick?

Michael ZinnMay 22, 2013, 2:28 AM

Is The advent of social networking is a testament to people's willingness to exist in a collective experience

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:31 AM

The T-Squares - my name for a smart gang. It's not a smart mob, but it's the best I can do. What?

Michael HauptmanMay 22, 2013, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

little known fact- those annoying captcha boxes with mostly illiterate text are actually used to help digitize books...captchas are a method of crowdsourcing OCR :)

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:33 AM

Aaron Swartz certainly did.

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:33 AM

disagree wiht you michael hauptman

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:34 AM

what densky - he's making it up?

Michael HauptmanMay 22, 2013, 2:34 AM

you are welcome to live in your own version of reality mr densky

Michael HauptmanMay 22, 2013, 2:35 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCAPTCHA

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:36 AM

The balance between the public good and profit motive is so far off that gravity is kicking in...

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:38 AM

not saying making it up, but the capthca acutally helps the overcrowding of ticket sources

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:40 AM

My mother is a critical enthusiast. She's very enthusiastic about criticizing me.

Michael HauptmanMay 22, 2013, 2:41 AM

@Adam Densky - can't say i disagree with that

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:42 AM

How does my critical enthusiast joke not get a single like? Tough crowd.

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:42 AM

@michael hauptman: thank you.

Eric GoldsmithMay 22, 2013, 2:42 AM

@densky isnt there a bar missing you right now

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:43 AM

@howard, as an ex teacher i did used to create curriculum but the higher up had the final say in what was allowec

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:44 AM

those docs are arbituray if the school will allow them

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:44 AM

and@eric Goldsmith the borgata is holding a room for me whenever your ready to go down

Jordan BirnbaumMay 22, 2013, 2:45 AM

MY MOTHER IS A CRITICAL...oh, never mind.

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:47 AM★ Spotlighted

Alan Watts is a revalation

ed goldsmithMay 22, 2013, 2:51 AM

Really, I mean really! enjoyed this TAWK and BTW Howard great comment about not to just read Net Smart but for Blake Ian to tell his community to read it....it just HAPPENED thanks to TAWKERS...thank you both for the excellent conversation! I

Adam DenskyMay 22, 2013, 2:54 AM

well done gentleman

Luna Live Media NetworkJul 31, 2013, 10:26 PM

Hello just dropping by to say our Citizen Media Network will be using Tawkers to interview some of our more high profile people we interview. Thank you for a great plate form and internet tool.

Mer@ A.R.Sep 19, 2013, 4:07 AM

Hunter ElizabethMay 18, 2014, 4:51 AM★ Spotlighted

Ugh missed the tawk

Hunter ElizabethMay 18, 2014, 4:51 AM★ Spotlighted

By a year and 4 days lolol