Lee Camp

Host

Privacy In The Age Of Surveillance

May 20, 2014·7,254 visitors

Eleanor Goldfield

Cohost

Stage· 299 messages

May 20, 2014

Comedian Activist Lee Camp and Rocker Activist Eleanor Goldfield talk with you about the surveillance state that is tracking nearly every move we make. Is it keeping us safe? Is it out of control? Join us for more.

Eleanor Goldfield · 10:58 PM

Hey everyone!

Lee Camp · 10:58 PM

Hey guys! Welcome! And say hi to the NSA - who are touching themselves to this chat AS WE SPEAK!

Eleanor Goldfield · 10:58 PM

This thing is starting a few minutes early, so tell all your friends to come join us!

Lee Camp · 10:58 PM

Welcome to my tough-as-nails co-host Eleanor!

Lee Camp · 10:59 PM

Please post to your friends to come join us!

Eleanor Goldfield · 10:59 PM

Ha - and hello to you, Lee

Lee Camp · 10:59 PM

We're gonna cover a bunch of things in this tawk -

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:00 PM

Be right back. the NSA is fucking with my tawkers window and not showing me what I or Lee write...

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

Is Snowden a hero? How much surveillance is necessary? How much privacy do we deserve? Is it possible to even achieve it? Do cops have the right to not be filmed? Do factory farms?

Lee Camp · 11:00 PM

So we got a lot go over. I just started reading Greenwald's new book on Snowden's NSA leaks. Pretty insane stuff.

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hello NSA - you bastards! :-)”

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“LOL. I can only imagine Lee!”

Lee Camp · 11:01 PM

So Rachel anticipated the first question - is Snowden a hero??

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:01 PM

I actually had this conversation on a radio show this past weekend

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:02 PM

I think regardless of what Snowden is guilty of, he brought to light some of the intense atrocities and rights-raping that our gov't had tried to cover up.

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Net neutrality will make it worse. they can route you to and from servers to "match your speed"”

Lee Camp · 11:02 PM

To me, Snowden is incredible because he appears to have been completely motivated by a need to keep his country free and open. I have no other motivation and he knew quite well that he might be in jail for the rest of his life.

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I think Snowden is a hero! I don't think we need to be treated like such children in this country. we need MORE transparency. imo”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Net neutrality basically limits the bandwidth of certain, unpaid, web assiociates. While fast-tracking corporate sites.”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

But Eleanor, when you say "besides what he's guilty of" does that mean he should be in jail for it?

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Snowden is a hero. Surveillance should be for warrants. As much privacy we can get. Cops do not have the right to no be filmed. And factory farms are debatable.”

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i guess its a fine line between privacy and hiding something illegal. but then describing what illegal is is hard too”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

@Lee - it means that that argument is a moot point

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

some people have argued that he broke the law

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:03 PM

well so did rosa parks

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

Not moot for Snowden.

Lee Camp · 11:03 PM

And not moot for other potential whistleblowers.

Lee Camp · 11:04 PM

And I don't believe in the word "moot" because it means both "arguable" and "inarguable" - I'm not kidding.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:04 PM

moot as in it has nothing to do with what he shed light on. just like the phony rape allegations have nothing to do with what assange has done. they're distractions, fluff, folk devils, if you will

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“eleanor,he made people talk. which is a good thing”

Lee Camp · 11:05 PM

I don't disagree with you. But they matter for whistleblowers.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:05 PM

i don't disagree with that, but that's not the point i'm making.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:06 PM

of course we need to push for unjust laws to not just be broken but abolished all together

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“honestly he risked everything to give us just a peek a glimpse into just how much we are being watched and controlled. and yes it started the conversation of privacy in this country, one we should have had LONG AGO”

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“unjust laws should be broken”

Lee Camp · 11:06 PM

I often ask myself if I would be able to do what he did. It's easy to say you would when you're safe at home, but I have no idea. Giving away your freedom for your beliefs is not an easy choice.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:07 PM

True. I think, like Rachel said, there's a first step of refusing to follow unjust laws. A lot of brave people in history have taken that first step, and then waves of people have followed.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“and he showed us why whistleblowers ARE important and why they should NEVER be punished for doing the right thing by people”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

I think just like Occupy changed the conversation and shifted paradigms, what Snowden did is doing the same

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“exactly Elanor, maybe the first step is refusing to follow those laws”

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

So perhaps the next question is what level of surveillance should we "be okay" with? There will always be some.

Lee Camp · 11:08 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Global Whistleblower Initiative?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:08 PM

I'm a big fan of what just passed the CA senate here. SB828

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:09 PM

it states that the federal government must have just cause and a warrant in order to search phone and email records of CA residents

Lee Camp · 11:09 PM

That sounds great.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

Yep. Ted Lieu is a bad ass

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

If we don't stop the NSA's "sniff it all/ collect it all" programs NOW, it will be too late. It's now or never.

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“If I could handle the military, not that I went into it - but if I did, and was put in the same position as Snowden.. I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

@Daniel - there is hope. CA has a tendency to set the tone for many state initiatives and legislation

Lee Camp · 11:10 PM

Tony, I don't see that as smug. I see that as determined.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:10 PM

Keep fighting as Lee would say

Lee Camp · 11:11 PM

And even if he were smug, the attitude of someone probably shouldn't decide whether they're a hero or not

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:11 PM

Well, back to Snowden - even if he is smug, I think he can have some smugness

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Too bad it's only in California..”

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“I don't think he is a hero but the results of his actions have made things a lot more transparent. He is a little smug to be a hero.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:12 PM

@Rachel - that's very true. It's hard to draw definitive lines, particularly with so much information floating around - just the fact that we have our entire lives/geographic location in our pockets

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

Yeah, I think he's incredibly intelligent and thought this all through pretty damn well.

Lee Camp · 11:12 PM

Reading about his determination and work he put in before the first article was even published is pretty incredible.

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Yeah, I saw his interview and don't see Snowden as smug. I see, however, the certain people calling out for his head as smug though.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“It's so hard because there are so many things wrong with our current laws and regulations - or lack there of - it makes it harder to decide what's ok to use surveillance on”

Lee Camp · 11:13 PM

Speaking of malware, it seems the NSA has been using "heartbleed" for two years without telling anyone that a lot of sites were not safe.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

@Daniel - Glen Greenwald's new book

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:13 PM

Lee, what's the name of it?

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

Was that a joke Daniel? I got it from Greenwald's book.

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shara Rabich

“When someone with money and power gets humiliated using the same tools that are used to spy against us...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

@Lucy - probably not but you can regulate the hell out of em

Lee Camp · 11:14 PM

"no place to hide"

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

@Daniel - yes

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“you guys seen this? "Restrictions placed on NSA's data store after intense talks over surveillance bill" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/20/nsa-reform-restrictions-data-surveillance-talks”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“maybe we need to step back and restructure our system and laws before we decide how we are going to regulate and enforce them. we need a redesign”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“I haven't read that far back into his efforts. I wonder if someone will write a book about it?”

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

Tony has a point. As technology gets better and better, we need to make rules or our monkey brains will be left behind.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Funny, nothing restrictive with surveillance seemed to happen until congress found out THEY were being spied on!!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“the NSA is a bit like GMO's - can you ever fully get rid of them?”

Lee Camp · 11:15 PM

The military is already talking about drones that will decide for THEMSELVES whether to bomb or not.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Eleanor - 'No Place To Hide'? I googled for it.”

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shara Rabich

“And heartbleed is one example - that we know about.”

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

75 Nobel Laureates sent a letter demanding we stop robot warfare before it starts. Technology will destroy us if we don't make rules.

Lee Camp · 11:16 PM

Yes, the Supreme Court has no idea what they're legislating.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

@Shara - it seems almost too obvious - kind of like having visited a country before becoming its ambassador...which we also don't do

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

Kailyn - that would be AWESOME though!

Lee Camp · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“Technology has surpassed our morality and laws.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“that is one thing we the people need to get used to, this good fight will never be over because there will always be people trying to make money or gain power over others suffering, this is a life long fight and always will be”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:17 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yeah we need some sort of ethics initiative that actually has power to change things Tony”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“oh my god I mean HOW STUPID CAN THEY BE??? that will be QUITE the malfunction... jeez!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:18 PM

I do think, that although we need a system reboot - pun intended - there is a way to use the system to fight the system, like the bill that passed in the CA Senate, for example. We can make headway

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shara Rabich

“We have idiots who think the internet is a "series of tubes" legislating. Understanding of Science and Technology should be prerequisite to a position on the House Science and Technology committee.”

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

Next privacy question - what if google glass can facially recognize you on the sidewalk and automatically look up whether you have a homemade porn or a criminal record. So a stranger could watch your porn as they walk by you. Sound good?

Lee Camp · 11:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Can anyone say "Robocop"? Who'd buy that for a dollar?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“@Tony and Mano - no matter the cause, we need more ethical treatment of well everything, we can agree on that! :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:19 PM

I would have to wear my bandit disguise more frequently

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

El - Ha. And your viking helmet

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:20 PM

well that goes without saying

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

By the way Obama has prosecuted whistle blowers under the 1917 espionage act more than all other presidents combined.

Lee Camp · 11:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“obviously Terminator didn't make them think at all! lol”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

I wonder if it will become more accepted tho. I mean I know people in older generations who abhor facebook b/c they see it as an invasion of privacy. most of us don't

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Might be helpful in finding good dates!”

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“we need more fighters / heroes for the common man and I think that is what was so refreshing to me about Snowden”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:21 PM

yeah, he's a real dick stick on pretty much every issue. hope and change, my ass

Lee Camp · 11:21 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Could you imagine a global counsel of super intelligent androids?”

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“Snowden shined a light on what everyone thought was going on anyway but governments use fear to steal our freedom.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:22 PM

@Daniel - do they give a stance on the subject?

Lee Camp · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Chelsey Manning too Rachel!”

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

Rachel - bullshit.

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

Tony - We already use pre-crime when we assassinate people with drones.

Lee Camp · 11:23 PM

They haven't done anything but we fear they might. So therefore we kill them.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“The idea about instant recognition through google glass has been explored in an anime called Eden of the East, if anyone is interested.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:23 PM

yep, those children and wedding goers are potential threats, for sure

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

actually anyone who is "military age" which is between what 18-95 is a threat

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yeah that prosecuting whistlerblowers is B.S. they are meant to be protected from harm, as they shine light into unethical, immoral, or hurtful acts”

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“No, it's just a tool for them.”

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Eleanor, I think that's why more people weren't rioting when they first found out--they don't see the potential for harm!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:24 PM

clinton empire vs. bush empire. 2016

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

Oligarchy VS No One 2016

Lee Camp · 11:24 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“I am more afraid of something like Minority Report, we are already getting to Elysium.”

Lee Camp · 11:25 PM

Back to privacy for a moment - do you guys ever avoid saying something or use encryption because you fear surveillance?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“#NoConfidence2016”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“"Suspected" terrorists”

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

I've been pixelating my junk a lot. There's actually pill I take that pixelates it for me.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

I personally don't but know people who do. It's probably why I'm one middle finger away from the no-fly list but...

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

your actual junk?

Lee Camp · 11:26 PM

Yeah, it pixelates me in the real world. It's awesome.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:26 PM

or the hovel of anarchy cook books you keep under your bed?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“so pathetic. Jill Stein is running again though isn't she? I like her”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“I am also worried about this blatant crackdown on whistle blowers and nothing happening to the people being exposed.”

Lee Camp · 11:27 PM

Those anarchy cookbooks are just to keep the nice normals away.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:28 PM

ew...normals

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

Double ew.

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Exact opposite Lee. I've been trying to get noticed for years. I think I'm ignorable. :/”

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Nah. I only avoid saying things because I might lose followers/friends. And I'm quickly getting over that.”

Lee Camp · 11:28 PM

I think I know the answer - but where does everybody stand on filming the cops? Filming factory farms? Do they have a right to privacy?

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Shara Rabich

“@Lee, I've used encryption for years. My 9 year old has a gpg key.”

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I do use code words a lot when I text and stuff I want to learn TOR though”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

wasn't there a city that started having the cops wear go-pros?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:29 PM

i thought i read that somewhere

Lee Camp · 11:29 PM

I think we have a right to film any time the cops are arresting someone or dealing with anyone. Why shouldn't we?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“third that.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

I worked at a high profile recording studio and there were cameras in every studio - to make sure none of the gear went missing. I never felt weird about it. i'm on the clock after all

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

The "Ag Gag" bills banning factory farm filming DRIVE ME INSANE.

Lee Camp · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Johnathonfall thethird

“It is bad enough that we are all be spied upon, but what really sucks is how gathered private info is sold to anybody who wants that info and is willing to pay (not that much) for YOUR info!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

and i wasn't even a public servant!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“You may lose the normals, but you'll attract the real peeps - being all realsauce and stuff.”

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“When ever laws are being broken, we have a right to film.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

if your job is to "serve and protect" - the people have the right to know whether you're doing that

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

particularly since police brutality is on the rise

Lee Camp · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“I'm into the art of converting "the normals" into actual human beings.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“We may even have the duty to film crimes.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:32 PM

@Lee - totally agree. and it's not directly related to filming, but a new north carolina law proposes that even discussing fracking chemicals would be illegal

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Carl Dodge

“At the end of the day...we pay their salary, and their job is to uphold the law. So...tough shit! We have the right to film them.”

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

Yes, they've been trying to keep the fracking chems secret forever!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:33 PM

@Kailyn - that's an interesting point. If you get footage of police brutality, does it even make sense to hand it over to the same police station you were filming?

Lee Camp · 11:33 PM

Why doesn't wikileaks get to work on the fracking fluids!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

Is there a wikileaks suggestion box we could submit to?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“I think a majority of those laws say that you can film the abuses as long as you turn the footage over to the police w/in 24 hours (if you can trust them with it)”

Lee Camp · 11:34 PM

Whatever the fuck they are they've been making tap water flammable - So I don't think they're soy sauce.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:34 PM

which would be GMO anyway

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“I wonder if the NSA will be okay with Anon hacking a satellite to record factory farms. hehe”

Lee Camp · 11:35 PM

Daniel - no. It was methane from the fracking.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i think this is what Eleanor is on about - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/20/us-usa-california-spying-idUKBREA4J02I20140520”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:36 PM

@Tim - yeah, it's a bit like fracking companies paying off the EPA to say that fracking is safe

Lee Camp · 11:36 PM

I think if they wanna pump our towns full of some fucking fluid, they should have the decency to tell us what it is! That's how it works with sex.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

...fracking fluid in sex...that's awfully kinky. or just awful

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

There are some pretty clear connections to monsanto for some politicians.

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“I thought that was a part of the petrol leaking into the reservoir?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

clarence thomas...cough, cough

Lee Camp · 11:37 PM

Roy Blunt said flat out that Monsanto helped him write the Monsanto Protection Act

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Enough people complained about the fracking chemicals to the EPA that two reps from their office met w/ environmental groups and answered questions, so they're being hounded and are aware ppl are pissed!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“The police routinely "investigate" themselves, but I don't think you can trust the same organization that is accused of corruption to be sincere in any investigation into itself”

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

I treat my fracking like my women... (top ten beginnings to bad jokes)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

It's actually pretty damn difficult to find a politician who doesn't have a past or present in the lobbying sector. It's a revolving door for the majority of politicians.

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

El - Why is that?? (He says knowing full well)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:38 PM

@Lee - please try that and let me know how it works. Disclaimer - I am not respsonsible for any injuries you may sustain

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“I saw where someone had posted to a group that they were trying to confirm the connections of various politicos to Monsanto, based on those graphics people not unlike myself keep circulating, and said they could only find 'specious' connections.”

Lee Camp · 11:38 PM

:) I'll try it and get back to you.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

oh, the money trail Lee, the money trail. pay for my campaign, scratch my back. get out of office, there's a seat waiting for you

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“then they would have to tell you they are slowly killing you all with cancer, to keep the economy going - wait, I can't believe they DON'T use that sales pitch”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“The mere fact that they want to cover up what is in the fracking fluids is, I think, a huge insight into whether or not there are some serious questions to its environmental effects”

Lee Camp · 11:39 PM

El - Well said.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

@Mitchell - give us a full list if you have it!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Tom Wheeler worked for the media companies. :D”

Lee Camp · 11:40 PM

Not to mention that even if the fracking chemicals are WONDERFUL, fracking also uses BILLIONS of gallons of fresh water, much of it left in the shale. Meanwhile some areas are in drought conditions.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:40 PM

by 2020, 1/3 of the world's population won't have access to fresh water

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

Tony - That goes for our democracy too. Huge profit in managing our illness, little money in the cure.

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“marker chemical for fracking can include iodine 131. do you need to know any other chemical?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Carl Dodge

“@Eleanor... I can run for office :)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

meanwhile, fracking companies are suing farmers in CA for using water...ummmm - who the fuck needs food, right?

Lee Camp · 11:41 PM

El - Can't we just live off fracking fluid?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“They're selling cancer and disease to make you pay for medication and hospital bills.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“keep your friends close and your payed off senators even closer...isnt that how the saying goes?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

I'm down to try. Can't be much worse than living in downtown LA

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“politicians run on money. The lobbyists realize that they can drive a dumptruck full of money up to any politicians front door and that person will vote however the lobby wants them to. Untill there is real reform in campaign finance it wont change.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Many congresspeople/senators become lobbyists after leaving office...says something right there!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“You can't make a profit from cure but you can make a huge profit managing sickness.”

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“we waste so much water, CLEAN water, on RIDICULOUS things...”

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

Just so I don't forget, I'll interrupt real quick for my dumb commercial: MY NEW COMEDY SPECIAL IS OUT!

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“As if the CEO of Nestle draining the great lakes wasn't enough of a burden on our fresh water.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

@Kailyn, absolutely. I was kidding about giving it a try. I've tried some off-color things in my day, but I'd have to draw the line at flammable water

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

It's pay-what-you-want.

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

Get it here - http://leecamp.net/standupspecial/

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“Especially if Nestle keeps buying up rights to the water!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Yes, there is a LOL video of that CEO from Nestle explaining why we don't have a "right" to free, clean water.”

Lee Camp · 11:43 PM

Ok, I'm done now. I'll go back to angry tirades.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

@Parry - good idea. Yet another dumbshit catastrophe that went unmentioned in the media

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“There's no way to clean fracked water for safe consumption”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Lee made a good reaction to that video if I remember right.”

Lee Camp · 11:44 PM

Daniel, that's good.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:44 PM

@Tony - fantastic book

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“that shit is EPIC Lee”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

Tim - very true.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“wohoo it is a GREAT special Lee!! Loved it! :D”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

and yes, it's a tried and true way of getting people to toe the big brother line and stay quiet

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i still cant get over tha fact that it take 3 bottles of water to make 1 bottle of water....thats just fucked up”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Parry Nattkemper

“Eleanor,you should make a music video about the LA oil spill lol”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“base fracking chems - 131Iodine would be added as a tracer http://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used”

Lee Camp · 11:45 PM

It's incredible hypocrisy that the government wants complete secrecy and so do corporations, while they tell us our every move is open to them.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“that special is deep as fuck for comedy”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Kailyn Kyle

“The only way to protect ourselves is to make fracking unnecessary--stop buying petroleum and get solar panels for our homes!!”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“the root of the problem is all the corruption of power, corruption in almost every agency that is meant to be for US and the environment, which have been bought”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“Tears of joy n sadness at the same time. trippy”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

not only that, but the fact that our rights are continuously restricted while they shed regulations like a damn snake skin

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Who else is filling up with tabs to be looked at later?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“America is running on some sort of false survivor mode, playing on people's fears and our environment and opportunity to reverse climate change. A play on the shock doctrine.”

Lee Camp · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“Dont wanna talk about an oil spill in LA when you are trying to sell a pipeline”

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

Yeah, in their ads they love to say the pipeline creates jobs - SO DOES MURDERING PEOPLE. (Good for cleaning services.)

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

@Daniel - corporations are already bigger than the gov't. Not to sound too solemn but we the people are the ones who have to stay on government like white on rice

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

@Lee - and the pipeline wouldn't even create that many long term jobs!

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

Yes, for those who didn't see it, it turns out the NSA LITERALLY watches every phone call in the Bahamas. It's basically a testing ground for the bigger program.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:47 PM

far fewer than renewable energy

Lee Camp · 11:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Not so much hypocrisy as a dare.”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“3 bottles of water to make one is the RO bypass ratio. Water is also expended in recharge of other filtration stages. However, the RO bypass water can be repassed or reused as greywater”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“that commercial is fucking disgusting watching them sell their nail in the coffin for climate change.”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“If only we could hire corporations bigger than the government to spy on them in opensource videos. Or something. lol”

Lee Camp · 11:48 PM

Eleanor - You LIE! It would create ONGOING jobs cleaning up oil spills!

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“and now the nsa is listening in to phone calls in the bahamas. maybe they wanna find out about all those tax havens out there”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

Aren't I just the negative nancy then?

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“the pipeline would create jobs, till it is built. than those jobs go away”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:49 PM

@Tim, another good point. the majority would be exported anyway

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I don't think it is hypocrisy or a dare. I think it is a huge middle finger to those who dont belong to the more elite”

Lee Camp · 11:49 PM

Lucy - Is that the singing competition that everyone watches over there?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

Did we just totally stray from the surveillance issue?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Yes, literally EVERY other form of energy would create far more jobs.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:50 PM

I see we have 10 minutes left...

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“creating jobs should not b looked at as a good thing”

Lee Camp · 11:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“What Americans don't realize is that every nation/country that the US has not subjugated to its rule has moved far beyond us.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:51 PM

What else can we dig into in terms of privacy and surveillance in the last 10 minutes?

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“But, if the XL pipeline were traded for the sewage to fuel pipelines instead. 10 million would be put to work for 20 years. Hard to get any body behind the sewage to fuel issue though”

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“i got to vote an EU member on thursday and i am really have no idea who to go for. they are all as shite as each other”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“Keep in mind that the pipeline is just meant to move oil from Canada to refineries in the Gulf before being moved overseas. not alot of its operation will help people here”

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

Tony - probably the auto industry and oil, if I had to guess.

Lee Camp · 11:51 PM

Yeah, does anyone have privacy questions to raise?

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@Lee - yeah its their 4 yearly karaoke competion”

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

Yes, Ellsberg is another hero.

Lee Camp · 11:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“At some point the planet runs out of oil and fresh water at this rate, how do we stop ourselves from being screwed?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:52 PM

yes, if anyone has suggested reading or whistleblower/spying names we should know about, throw them out there!

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“I also want to know what is holding up high speed rail, a line from New York to DC would make so much money.”

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

Tim - Yeah, I think there is a bad effect when each generation acclimates to the new norm. They only know a world where they think their emails are being read. They have known nothing else.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

@Tim - wow, that's a really good point. And frightening

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:53 PM

I've had many people say to me, "well it doesn't bother me, I have nothing to hide"

Lee Camp · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Yes, it appears that we have enough fresh water for only 7 billion of the 10 billion people expected to populate planet in twenty years.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Ryan Peekoh Mitchkowski

“Good to see others reading the Greenwald book. Let's not forget Daniel Ellsberg, for taking the steam out of Nixon era spying too.”

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

Each step creeps people out for a matter of months. Remember when it became clear that google was reading our emails and advertising to us from that? I flipped out. But now it's just the norm.

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

Most people who go to jail have nothing to hide.

Lee Camp · 11:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I think that it is more scary that alot of younger people arent that upset about the NSA. Because they hadnt used the internet prior to the Patriot Act.”

Lee Camp · 11:55 PM

Tim - you listed all good things. If you had said your Spice Girls CDs, I woulda seen where you were coming from.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:55 PM

@Rachel - absolutely agree. And I think it has to be a two way street. Surveillance in some cases is necessary, but that shouldn't exclude government. Transparency is necessary

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

We need a "show me your junk and I'll show you mine" system, I guess.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

Again Rachel, absolutely

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“i think that in ANY case of surveillance we should know exactly why it is necessary and what it will entail, transparency is key! and that is something the NSA has not and given us”

Lee Camp · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“I have lots to hide. My anime collection, my bootleg bill hicks cds, my membership to the Pearl Jam Fan club”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:57 PM

well to a certain extent, Lee. they have an obligation to show us their junk since you know, they represent us. i'll only show mine if there's probable cause i'm being an asshole to society

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“and remember, if anyone gives you that "nothing to hide" excuse, INFORM THEM!!”

Lee Camp · 11:57 PM

Tim - The gov't has proven they try to keep everything secret until they no longer can. --even when it doesn't threaten security even SLIGHTLY.

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

El - I agree.

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Ew. I do not want to be part of that system.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“one rule them and one for us should NOT be used anymore.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“definitely, like with Manning, if that is what is too "sensitive" for the American people, maybe we SHOULD know about it so we can STOP it”

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

We're wrapping up here, but you're welcome to stay and keep discussing! Please tell your friends to join us every Tuesday!

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“@Mano you are right. Again citizens need to buck this system and demand alternative fuel and solar.”

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“lol I guess we do Lee, until we all learn how to be "civilized adults" lol”

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

Here's a free clip from new special - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZrxDzo3Zzw

Lee Camp · 11:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tim Hayes

“The intelligence community will always argue that they cant operate at full capacity while maintaining transparency”

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

we don't have time to really get into it but I do think there's a difference between spying and surveillance. surveillance in some cases is warranted and necessary, and people can be aware that they're under surveillance. spying is always covert.

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

I hope you'll consider grabbing it. If you don't ahve the $5 recommended donation, just grab it for whatever price. Enjoy.

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

Check out eleanor's music too!

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

Thanks everyone for joining us!

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“@Eleanor, the motive behind spying is completely profit. They profit of terrorists attacks so yeah, any type of spying is just no good.”

Lee Camp · 11:59 PM

Follow me at Facebook.com/LeeCampComedian

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

Make sure you join us every Tuesday at 4pm PST/7pm EST

Eleanor Goldfield · 11:59 PM

and if you have suggestions on what we should discuss, let us know thru one of our sites

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“and then they wonder why we don't trust the system?? UH CUZ WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

rooftoprevolutionaries.com

Lee Camp · 12:00 AM

Also @LeeCamp on Twitter. And feel free to recommend topics!

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:00 AM

@rooftoprev @rooftopeleanor

Lee Camp · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yay! I was so happy I didn't have to watch my nephews tonight so I was able to make it. Great Tawk everyone! Thanks Lee and Eleanor! :)”

Lee Camp · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Tony Carr

“Fracking is a crime against nature even with all the protests nothing changes, very frustrating.”

Lee Camp · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“Thanks everyone, been awesome.”

Lee Camp · 12:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Wes Lee

“Peace Eleanor n Lee, Yall have a great night, Yall are cool peeps”

Lee Camp · 12:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Parry Nattkemper

“Thanks everyone”

Eleanor Goldfield · 12:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Daniel Young

“A topic that is resistant to sidelines! lol :p These hour things fly by.”

Forum · 362

Forum· 362 comments

7,254 visitors

Tawkers AdminMay 19, 2014, 6:59 PM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Johnathonfall thethirdMay 20, 2014, 8:29 AM

Fuck no and totally out of control. I reckon being outside of America probably is not as bad in some areas of surveillance and same in other areas. The problem that really disturbs me is how info sold and bought and not even for big money to corpora

C.j. ParkMay 20, 2014, 5:11 PM

No it is not keeping us safe. It's tightening the grip that the government already has on the American public. American's need to know that we live in a police state and it's getting worse.

C.j. ParkMay 20, 2014, 5:14 PM

Orwellian surveillance is only one aspect of the illegality of this country. There are numerous other heinous actions that the corrupt members of this country are performing to innocent American men, women, and children.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 7:50 PM

will net neutrality make it safer? is this the reason they want to get rid of net neutrality is cos they want to make it easier to spy on you?

C BMay 20, 2014, 9:00 PM

No, safety is an illusion. Completely out of control.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 10:21 PM

Hey hey hey. How is everyone today? Ready for some heavy conversation?

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 10:33 PM

I would object if there wasn't a surveilance program for nuclear issues. However, I feel that giving companies access to information gleaned in exchange for cooperating is unconstitional. The information should be limited only to attacks on the

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 10:34 PM

Once your information is collected, it should not be shared with advertisers to help place proper ads on websites that you visit.

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 10:36 PM

We didn't use the data to prevent 9/11. If anything, it may have been used to make sure that 9/11 happened.

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 10:37 PM

Some of the training was done in Minnesota which was the last place to save phone metadata. Were they guided on where to train?

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 10:38 PM

Minnesota phone system was not capable of metadata collection until after 9/11

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 10:40 PM

Oh really? Not surprising.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 10:47 PM

People invited. :)

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 10:53 PM

It's as quiet as the dead just minutes before they're live.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 10:57 PM

hey all!!

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 10:57 PM

and Hey there to the lovely hosts Eleanor and Lee!

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 10:57 PM

It's like they start tracking us the moment we leave our house, especially if we have a cell phone. Track us at every light. With satellites, etc. What don't they use to track us?

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 10:58 PM

Mitchell- I did not know that and I am from Minnesota, interesting. hi everyone! :)

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 10:58 PM

hey Rachel

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 10:58 PM

hey lucy :)

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 10:59 PM★ Spotlighted

hello NSA - you bastards! :-)

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 10:59 PM★ Spotlighted

LOL. I can only imagine Lee!

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 10:59 PM

One FBI agent followed a tip to a Mn flight school and without metadata discovered the plot to crash commercial planes into buildings. She, of course, lost her job

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Net neutrality basically limits the bandwidth of certain, unpaid, web assiociates. While fast-tracking corporate sites.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:00 PM

From my understanding.

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Net neutrality will make it worse. they can route you to and from servers to "match your speed"

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:00 PM

of course, we don't reward the truth in this country :p

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:01 PM★ Spotlighted

I think Snowden is a hero! I don't think we need to be treated like such children in this country. we need MORE transparency. imo

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:01 PM★ Spotlighted

i guess its a fine line between privacy and hiding something illegal. but then describing what illegal is is hard too

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:01 PM★ Spotlighted

Snowden is a hero. Surveillance should be for warrants. As much privacy we can get. Cops do not have the right to no be filmed. And factory farms are debatable.

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:01 PM

You can have fast lane internet without packet sniffing and you need packet sniffing for metadata

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:01 PM

Cops deserve to be filmed the moment they step out of the station with their badge.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:01 PM

for telling the truth? yes Snowden is ahero

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:02 PM

Two years is the minimum prison sentence for filming a cop in Illinois

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:02 PM

that is b.s. Mitchell, obviously they are pretty scared they will get caught doing something

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

eleanor,he made people talk. which is a good thing

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:03 PM

If only all our servicemen were motivated by such traditionally American ideals.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:03 PM

maybe the military are "brainwashed" into thinking that what they do is good

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:03 PM★ Spotlighted

honestly he risked everything to give us just a peek a glimpse into just how much we are being watched and controlled. and yes it started the conversation of privacy in this country, one we should have had LONG AGO

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:03 PM

who knows for sure

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:04 PM★ Spotlighted

unjust laws should be broken

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:04 PM

It's inarguably arguable.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:05 PM

Snowden change the way laws are made. He helped make things easier for people to speak out,for those who had no voice or were afraid to speak out,to tell their story

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:05 PM

or at least what he did

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:05 PM★ Spotlighted

and he showed us why whistleblowers ARE important and why they should NEVER be punished for doing the right thing by people

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

Global Whistleblower Initiative?

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:06 PM★ Spotlighted

exactly Elanor, maybe the first step is refusing to follow those laws

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:07 PM★ Spotlighted

If I could handle the military, not that I went into it - but if I did, and was put in the same position as Snowden.. I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:08 PM

like Armsrong said "its one giant leap for mankind..."

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:09 PM

Is Snowden a hero? That is a good question.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:09 PM

I'm okay with surveillance at traffic lights, no more. Traffic is a big side issue in America.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:10 PM

Warrants from the secret courts or an actual court,Eleanor?

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

I don't think he is a hero but the results of his actions have made things a lot more transparent. He is a little smug to be a hero.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:10 PM★ Spotlighted

Too bad it's only in California..

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

you guys seen this? "Restrictions placed on NSA's data store after intense talks over surveillance bill" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/20/nsa-reform-restrictions-data-surveillance-talks

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

Yeah, I saw his interview and don't see Snowden as smug. I see, however, the certain people calling out for his head as smug though.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:11 PM

that bill gets a vote this thursday

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

It's so hard because there are so many things wrong with our current laws and regulations - or lack there of - it makes it harder to decide what's ok to use surveillance on

Shara RabichMay 20, 2014, 11:11 PM★ Spotlighted

When someone with money and power gets humiliated using the same tools that are used to spy against us...

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:12 PM

anyone who lives that long in an airport for OUR freedom is pretty badass I think! :)

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:12 PM

with everyone questioning everything,who knows what to use surveillance on,Ravhel

Shara RabichMay 20, 2014, 11:12 PM

Malware in routers assists more than the NSA.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

maybe we need to step back and restructure our system and laws before we decide how we are going to regulate and enforce them. we need a redesign

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

I haven't read that far back into his efforts. I wonder if someone will write a book about it?

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

the NSA is a bit like GMO's - can you ever fully get rid of them?

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:13 PM★ Spotlighted

Funny, nothing restrictive with surveillance seemed to happen until congress found out THEY were being spied on!!

Shara RabichMay 20, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

And heartbleed is one example - that we know about.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

Eleanor - 'No Place To Hide'? I googled for it.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:14 PM

No. Lol. I honestly wasn't aware of the book until just now.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

that is one thing we the people need to get used to, this good fight will never be over because there will always be people trying to make money or gain power over others suffering, this is a life long fight and always will be

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:14 PM★ Spotlighted

Technology has surpassed our morality and laws.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:15 PM

and thats the sad truth Rachel

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:15 PM

No, our morality and laws are corrupt. Technology just makes it visible. :)

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:15 PM★ Spotlighted

yeah we need some sort of ethics initiative that actually has power to change things Tony

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:16 PM

@Lee - thats scary as hell

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

oh my god I mean HOW STUPID CAN THEY BE??? that will be QUITE the malfunction... jeez!

Shara RabichMay 20, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

We have idiots who think the internet is a "series of tubes" legislating. Understanding of Science and Technology should be prerequisite to a position on the House Science and Technology committee.

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:16 PM

Rachel I think you are right, Mano has a point too.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:16 PM

Our ever advancing technology is reaching a point that it could take off without us evolutionary-wise.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:16 PM★ Spotlighted

Can anyone say "Robocop"? Who'd buy that for a dollar?

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:17 PM

I can't affor it. :(

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:17 PM★ Spotlighted

@Tony and Mano - no matter the cause, we need more ethical treatment of well everything, we can agree on that! :)

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:17 PM

Yeah, they need a lot more schooling there in the white house.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:17 PM

china has a robot for a CEO

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:17 PM

so anything is possible

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:18 PM

Google's purchase of a robotics company that's developed one that runs is scary Orwellian.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:18 PM

I would like to also buy a "D" to append to that last message but I cannot afford that, either...

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:18 PM

Yes indeed, all because technology to do it doesn't mean that we should.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:18 PM★ Spotlighted

obviously Terminator didn't make them think at all! lol

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:18 PM

Self aware robots may be our only hope, as long as they don't turn on us!

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:19 PM★ Spotlighted

Might be helpful in finding good dates!

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:19 PM★ Spotlighted

Could you imagine a global counsel of super intelligent androids?

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:19 PM★ Spotlighted

we need more fighters / heroes for the common man and I think that is what was so refreshing to me about Snowden

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:19 PM

and i thought they only did that in the movies,Lee....

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:19 PM

I haven't had google glasses to know their current capabilities.

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:19 PM★ Spotlighted

Snowden shined a light on what everyone thought was going on anyway but governments use fear to steal our freedom.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:19 PM

@Daniel the irony would be the global robot initiative would outsmart us with logic probably haha

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:20 PM★ Spotlighted

Chelsey Manning too Rachel!

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:20 PM

The viking helmet in your next porn flick?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:20 PM

@Rachel as long as everything they did was in the best interests of the planet as a whole, the lesser evils that may come about are negligible.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:20 PM

If you all haven't watched "The Running Man" in a while, I highly recommend it. It's a really fun movie until it's over and it starts worming into yo brains.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:20 PM

yes of course Chelsey Manning! Thanks Kailyn! :)

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:20 PM

Is that available for download?

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:21 PM

is this the movies coming to life? Robocop,Terminator,A.I...whats next?

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:21 PM

too bad the vulcan race is fictional Daniel lol

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:21 PM

The Running Man? It's on Netflix and Amazon Prime.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

The idea about instant recognition through google glass has been explored in an anime called Eden of the East, if anyone is interested.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:22 PM★ Spotlighted

yeah that prosecuting whistlerblowers is B.S. they are meant to be protected from harm, as they shine light into unethical, immoral, or hurtful acts

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:22 PM★ Spotlighted

Eleanor, I think that's why more people weren't rioting when they first found out--they don't see the potential for harm!

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:22 PM★ Spotlighted

No, it's just a tool for them.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:22 PM

when you have something to hide,you want to shut the messenger up any way possible.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:22 PM

holy crap did you guys hear that Obama was going to run for a third term? I don't know if it's true, but you can't do that??

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:22 PM

It isn't possible.

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

I am more afraid of something like Minority Report, we are already getting to Elysium.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:23 PM

Unless he's become a dictator for realzies.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:23 PM

that's what I thought Daniel, I just read it yesterday didn't know if I could trust it because I think it's against the Constitution

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:23 PM

A US President can't hold a third term. Instead, they're just trying to reinstall Hilary.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:23 PM

Same difference.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:23 PM

Pre-crime is such a horrible notion. Unless we're talking about the elites' crimes.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

"Suspected" terrorists

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:24 PM

haha good one mano dogs

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

#NoConfidence2016

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:24 PM

I'm not joking, kiddo.

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:24 PM★ Spotlighted

I am also worried about this blatant crackdown on whistle blowers and nothing happening to the people being exposed.

Johnathonfall thethirdMay 20, 2014, 11:24 PM

"The Lives of Others" 1984 in Berlin is an excellent movie about spying. 30 + years ago this shit was going on.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:24 PM

I know I was alive for the Bill Clinton era lol. it just makes it easier for me to laugh at it right now

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:24 PM

I started that as a group a few days ago. I hope the idea explodes in time.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:25 PM

Which is really redundant, Eleanor; it's all the same regime with the same players.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:25 PM

International legal community hasn't even defined what a terrorist is, so how can we prosecute for something that hasn't been legally defined?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:25 PM

The People vs The Puppets 2016. lol

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:25 PM★ Spotlighted

so pathetic. Jill Stein is running again though isn't she? I like her

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:26 PM

Terrorist definition: Someone who believes something different than what the gov't wants you to believe.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:26 PM

yes Tony! we reward all the wrong things in this system, it pisses me off!

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

Nah. I only avoid saying things because I might lose followers/friends. And I'm quickly getting over that.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

Exact opposite Lee. I've been trying to get noticed for years. I think I'm ignorable. :/

Shara RabichMay 20, 2014, 11:26 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee, I've used encryption for years. My 9 year old has a gpg key.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:26 PM

pixelating your junk? sounds private lee lol!!

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:27 PM

It's a cultural thing moreso than a systemic thing though, Rachel; culturally, socially, our morals and values have become nigh hopelessly perverted.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:27 PM

In photoshop, you only have to resize your junk for it to pixelate. xP

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:27 PM★ Spotlighted

I do use code words a lot when I text and stuff I want to learn TOR though

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

third that.

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:28 PM

As citizens we have to take our power back, we may have to sacrifice our own convenience for the sake of our privacy.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:28 PM

@mano that's why we have to live our lives differently and hopefully people start catching on I mean come on people will choose kindness 9/10 but they just aren't used to that way of life anymore, be the change... :)

Johnathonfall thethirdMay 20, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

It is bad enough that we are all be spied upon, but what really sucks is how gathered private info is sold to anybody who wants that info and is willing to pay (not that much) for YOUR info!

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:28 PM

at least pixelating is better than having a blue dot.....

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:28 PM★ Spotlighted

You may lose the normals, but you'll attract the real peeps - being all realsauce and stuff.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

When ever laws are being broken, we have a right to film.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:29 PM

We are allowed to film whatever we want in public

Mary NicholsonMay 20, 2014, 11:29 PM

Accountability needs to start from the base level. A simple HR department at a local hospital can't even do their jobs in a competent manner. It has to start somewhere....its very sad!

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

I'm into the art of converting "the normals" into actual human beings.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:29 PM

yes I do Courtenay thanks for the tip! :) It is my summer project and I want to study quantum physics lol

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

We may even have the duty to film crimes.

Shara RabichMay 20, 2014, 11:30 PM

There are many ways to encrypt IM's, SMS, even phone calls. Most are quite simple and freely available. https://prism-break.org/en/

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:30 PM

We do Kailyn, but as someone who has had his eyesocket broken, that shit hurts.

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:30 PM

We do have to make sure our cameras are out, surveillance can go both ways. We can use the tools we have to keep our police and government accountable.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:30 PM

isn't it our civic duty?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:30 PM

Ag Gag bills?

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:31 PM

We have so many more ways to get information out! We have to be bold and use them. Victims no more.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:31 PM

Those ag gag laws deserve to be broken!

Johnathonfall thethirdMay 20, 2014, 11:31 PM

Sadly, spying + many broke & desperate people creates a snitch environment.

Carl DodgeMay 20, 2014, 11:31 PM★ Spotlighted

At the end of the day...we pay their salary, and their job is to uphold the law. So...tough shit! We have the right to film them.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:31 PM

@Daniel You aren't allowed to film agricultural farming places for animal cruelty abuses, illegal pesticides stuff, et. al.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:32 PM

Wow. That's news to me. Makes me want to do it now..

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

I think a majority of those laws say that you can film the abuses as long as you turn the footage over to the police w/in 24 hours (if you can trust them with it)

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:32 PM

Well, saying that I still appreciate the bravery of what Snowden did. It does not discount the sacrifice he made to get that information out.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:32 PM

Do cop cars say "protect" anymore?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

I wonder if the NSA will be okay with Anon hacking a satellite to record factory farms. hehe

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:33 PM

They'll suppress it, Kailyn.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:33 PM★ Spotlighted

i think this is what Eleanor is on about - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/20/us-usa-california-spying-idUKBREA4J02I20140520

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:33 PM

@Kailyn Wouldn't know, you could try googling it?

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:34 PM

The reality is that the corporations and wealthy literally run this country and, by extension, the entire world. And those cats are shitbag lunatics.

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:34 PM

You know maybe our extinction should be considered a blessing, cuz I'm not sure if we're making any progress with these Rothchilds, Rockerfellers, and JP Morgans

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:34 PM

The formula for the chemicals they use in fracking?

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:34 PM

btw you on a list yet?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

I thought that was a part of the petrol leaking into the reservoir?

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

The police routinely "investigate" themselves, but I don't think you can trust the same organization that is accused of corruption to be sincere in any investigation into itself

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:35 PM★ Spotlighted

Enough people complained about the fracking chemicals to the EPA that two reps from their office met w/ environmental groups and answered questions, so they're being hounded and are aware ppl are pissed!

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:35 PM

Ahh.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:36 PM

Tim - Word.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:36 PM

@Tim yeah there is a reason why we need to cross-validate such things, especially when the well being of a human being is involved

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:36 PM★ Spotlighted

I saw where someone had posted to a group that they were trying to confirm the connections of various politicos to Monsanto, based on those graphics people not unlike myself keep circulating, and said they could only find 'specious' connections.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:36 PM

And I wanted terribly to reply, "Well... DUH," but I did not want to create an account. :/

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:37 PM

This reminds me of the BP fiasco. Altering pictures to make them seem like they were doing more than they were.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:37 PM

When they were letting it all hang out.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:37 PM

Absolutely.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

then they would have to tell you they are slowly killing you all with cancer, to keep the economy going - wait, I can't believe they DON'T use that sales pitch

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

The mere fact that they want to cover up what is in the fracking fluids is, I think, a huge insight into whether or not there are some serious questions to its environmental effects

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:37 PM★ Spotlighted

Tom Wheeler worked for the media companies. :D

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:38 PM

Hillary Clinton = Monsanto money

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:38 PM★ Spotlighted

They're selling cancer and disease to make you pay for medication and hospital bills.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:38 PM

Same for the GMOs/Monsanto, Tim! Absolutely, Kailyn.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:38 PM

just another reason NOT to support her, I have to calm myself when people go on and on about how great she is, UGH WAKE UP PEOPLE

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:38 PM

the fact that people are talking about things and asking questions,is a HUGE step in the right direction. like they say in the X Files the truth is out there....

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:38 PM

Organic food, Earthing, and Cannabis are the ways to resist the cancer economy. Cheaper than doctors too.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:38 PM

Stuntcasting: "We had a black President, so now we NEED a woman President!"

Carl DodgeMay 20, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

@Eleanor... I can run for office :)

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:39 PM

speaking of which, EVERYONE PLANT ORGANIC THIS YEAR! :D

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

marker chemical for fracking can include iodine 131. do you need to know any other chemical?

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:39 PM★ Spotlighted

keep your friends close and your payed off senators even closer...isnt that how the saying goes?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:39 PM

We need a revolving door tax on politicians. Lol.

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

politicians run on money. The lobbyists realize that they can drive a dumptruck full of money up to any politicians front door and that person will vote however the lobby wants them to. Untill there is real reform in campaign finance it wont change.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:40 PM

Lucy LOL.

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:40 PM

there is no trust in this system. its sad to be honest

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

Many congresspeople/senators become lobbyists after leaving office...says something right there!

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:40 PM★ Spotlighted

You can't make a profit from cure but you can make a huge profit managing sickness.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:40 PM

I try hard to afford American Spirits cigarettes so as to cut-down on the additivews. But I smoke the shit outta weed too, so, it's cool.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

we waste so much water, CLEAN water, on RIDICULOUS things...

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

As if the CEO of Nestle draining the great lakes wasn't enough of a burden on our fresh water.

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:41 PM★ Spotlighted

Especially if Nestle keeps buying up rights to the water!

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:41 PM

i'm sure i read earlier this week that they had found a cure for cancer. didnt see that on MSM...wonder why?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:41 PM

WHAT? They're sueing farmers in Cali for using water? -_-

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:41 PM

the question is how to get off this system? no one can answer this shit

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:41 PM

Even if waste wasnt as big as an issue that it is, you still have large corporations trying to push this line that water "isn't a right."

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes, there is a LOL video of that CEO from Nestle explaining why we don't have a "right" to free, clean water.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:42 PM

cannabis oil Lucy, I know is one, but a doctor in Canada also had found something, but big pharma wouldn't fund it because he wanted it to be *gasp* affordable to people

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

There's no way to clean fracked water for safe consumption

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee made a good reaction to that video if I remember right.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:42 PM

exactly Rachel!

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:42 PM

it's SO MESSED UP!! Where to even BEGIN?!?

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:42 PM

which is why hardly anyone knows about it

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

that shit is EPIC Lee

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM

Rachel - There's also Earthing. The next big medical wonder. That big pharma is pissing themselves hoping doesn't catch on.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

wohoo it is a GREAT special Lee!! Loved it! :D

Parry NattkemperMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

Eleanor,you should make a music video about the LA oil spill lol

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

i still cant get over tha fact that it take 3 bottles of water to make 1 bottle of water....thats just fucked up

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

base fracking chems - 131Iodine would be added as a tracer http://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM

who still buys that shit?

Kailyn KyleMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

The only way to protect ourselves is to make fracking unnecessary--stop buying petroleum and get solar panels for our homes!!

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:43 PM★ Spotlighted

that special is deep as fuck for comedy

Johnathonfall thethirdMay 20, 2014, 11:44 PM

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

Tears of joy n sadness at the same time. trippy

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

the root of the problem is all the corruption of power, corruption in almost every agency that is meant to be for US and the environment, which have been bought

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:44 PM

square one

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

Who else is filling up with tabs to be looked at later?

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

America is running on some sort of false survivor mode, playing on people's fears and our environment and opportunity to reverse climate change. A play on the shock doctrine.

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:44 PM★ Spotlighted

Dont wanna talk about an oil spill in LA when you are trying to sell a pipeline

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:45 PM

I think the survivor mode is legit compared to our policies.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:45 PM

There was another big oil spill recently in Ohio or somewhere that they covered-up pretty handily.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:45 PM

@Tony we couldn't survive a heart attack, people need to "get that" they don't, we are so distracted it is sad

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

Not so much hypocrisy as a dare.

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

3 bottles of water to make one is the RO bypass ratio. Water is also expended in recharge of other filtration stages. However, the RO bypass water can be repassed or reused as greywater

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

that commercial is fucking disgusting watching them sell their nail in the coffin for climate change.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

If only we could hire corporations bigger than the government to spy on them in opensource videos. Or something. lol

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

I don't think it is hypocrisy or a dare. I think it is a huge middle finger to those who dont belong to the more elite

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:46 PM

yeah why should we follow their laws and rules, when they can't even follow them? sorry, nope.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

and now the nsa is listening in to phone calls in the bahamas. maybe they wanna find out about all those tax havens out there

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:47 PM

Yeah, my point exactly, Tim! "What are you gonna do about it? Fuck you!"

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:47 PM

No, Lucy. They are listening for business tips

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:47 PM

The real issue with government today is, it was traditionally installed the way it was to resist corporate domineering.

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:47 PM★ Spotlighted

the pipeline would create jobs, till it is built. than those jobs go away

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:47 PM

And, to that point, I don't want to hire anyone to SPY on them...

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:47 PM

Seriously though.. I give us 20 years max. if we haven't ditched the monetary system by then, then we won't be here.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:48 PM

@Lee - you reckon they can do a better job than what you and Negin did?

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes, literally EVERY other form of energy would create far more jobs.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:48 PM

I always think of the job creation debate with organic farming, wouldn't spraying less chemicals give more people jobs in the fields?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:48 PM

I like my rice brown, but that says nothing to us having to keep tabs on our government at all possible routes.

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

creating jobs should not b looked at as a good thing

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

What Americans don't realize is that every nation/country that the US has not subjugated to its rule has moved far beyond us.

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:48 PM★ Spotlighted

But, if the XL pipeline were traded for the sewage to fuel pipelines instead. 10 million would be put to work for 20 years. Hard to get any body behind the sewage to fuel issue though

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:49 PM

but you can't clean up oil lee! :p

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

i got to vote an EU member on thursday and i am really have no idea who to go for. they are all as shite as each other

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:49 PM

I try to stay in front of the sewage issue, Mitchell.

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:49 PM★ Spotlighted

Keep in mind that the pipeline is just meant to move oil from Canada to refineries in the Gulf before being moved overseas. not alot of its operation will help people here

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:50 PM

And why is there such a reluctance to rebuild our infrastructure, are Republicans just waiting to get back in power and pretend it is their idea?

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:50 PM

TOTALLY.

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:50 PM

and how much oil is left? do we ever get to know? or is this just like a surprise type deal?

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

At some point the planet runs out of oil and fresh water at this rate, how do we stop ourselves from being screwed?

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:50 PM★ Spotlighted

@Lee - yeah its their 4 yearly karaoke competion

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:50 PM

Yes we did

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:50 PM

No, the purpose of XL pipeline is probably to process the oil in the US so that the US has to dispose of the radionuclides in the fuel as if we don't have enough radioactive waste anyway.

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

I also want to know what is holding up high speed rail, a line from New York to DC would make so much money.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:51 PM

it's all intertwined in the same clusterfuck of a system :/ we have our work cut out for us

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:51 PM

@Daniel, I think this is where we fight, or we die anyway

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:51 PM

No the Republicans are FAR more dastardly than that. That's the Big Oil, Big Steel party; they're ALL about war and religion, which go hand in hand.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:51 PM

We covered police, Snowden.. How about what they can get from metadata?

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:51 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes, it appears that we have enough fresh water for only 7 billion of the 10 billion people expected to populate planet in twenty years.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:51 PM

The technology would displace the Industrial steel and big oil corporations, Tony.

Ryan Peekoh MitchkowskiMay 20, 2014, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

Good to see others reading the Greenwald book. Let's not forget Daniel Ellsberg, for taking the steam out of Nixon era spying too.

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:52 PM

@mano the steel jobs are going overseas anyway. All over PA steel plants have been shutting down.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:52 PM

Nixon era spying? I wasn't alive for that. How was it worse?

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:52 PM

You realize that Nixon is about the only one from his administration not still in some form of office or consultation, though.

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

I think that it is more scary that alot of younger people arent that upset about the NSA. Because they hadnt used the internet prior to the Patriot Act.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:52 PM

i wish some english person had the same guts and came out as a whistleblower. but they are probably too busy kissing ass to care

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:52 PM

So for them it has always been like this

Ryan Peekoh MitchkowskiMay 20, 2014, 11:53 PM

It was relative to the technical capabilities of that time.

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:53 PM

I will probably be talking about sewage to fuel on Talking Left and Filterfree radio soon

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:53 PM★ Spotlighted

i think that in ANY case of surveillance we should know exactly why it is necessary and what it will entail, transparency is key! and that is something the NSA has not and given us

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:53 PM

They gave us 9/11 and 7/5, Rachel. What more do we need?

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:53 PM

Sewage to fuel never takes food from people's mouths. It just waits for it to come out the other end.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:53 PM

As one of the younger ones, for a couple more years at least, I can say that kids today are far too distracted to really care who's paying attention to them from afar.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:54 PM

we need transparency on spying and what they are holding. whether get that is a totally different matter

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:54 PM

let me tell you, when I gauge the younger generation they eat up Obama and Hilary's speeches they LOVE them and they have no idea what is really going on

Johnathonfall thethirdMay 20, 2014, 11:54 PM

Fracking companies, the DEA, Monsanto, etc., see all the information they want to see from the NSA so as to make sure they are protected...they have the advantage!

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:54 PM

I don't want Hillary. I want fair trade not free trade

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:54 PM

Free trade was never free anyway.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:54 PM

@Lee - thats why there are no bankers in jail

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:54 PM★ Spotlighted

I have lots to hide. My anime collection, my bootleg bill hicks cds, my membership to the Pearl Jam Fan club

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:55 PM

LOL Tim.

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:55 PM

well, not so much hide as it just isnt any of the govts business

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:55 PM

Good points all, Tim.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:55 PM★ Spotlighted

and remember, if anyone gives you that "nothing to hide" excuse, INFORM THEM!!

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:56 PM

It's the current issues that they keep from us, the moment it's less than relevant they just work on WMDistractions and whiteout.

Kevin ArrhMay 20, 2014, 11:56 PM

I am old fashioned! Privacy should be complete when I close my front door and not when I draw the curtains! Remember peeping Tom laws?

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

definitely, like with Manning, if that is what is too "sensitive" for the American people, maybe we SHOULD know about it so we can STOP it

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

one rule them and one for us should NOT be used anymore.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

Ew. I do not want to be part of that system.

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

The intelligence community will always argue that they cant operate at full capacity while maintaining transparency

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

@Mano you are right. Again citizens need to buck this system and demand alternative fuel and solar.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:56 PM★ Spotlighted

lol I guess we do Lee, until we all learn how to be "civilized adults" lol

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

my hump,my hump,my little lady lump....check it out! - said all the male senators......

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

That's been their argument since the invented of the sector, Tim.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

You know there's an engine that runs on water, right? Since like 1990. They poisoned that dude and stole his designs.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

invention*

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

exactly Courtenay

Dawn AdamsMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

*Crashes in like Cosmo Kramer* Hi

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM★ Spotlighted

@Eleanor, the motive behind spying is completely profit. They profit of terrorists attacks so yeah, any type of spying is just no good.

Tim HayesMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

And untill the laws are reformed, whch they have needed to be since WW1, I cant see that changing. But without public pressure to change, nothing will

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

Got here late Dawn.

Mitchell HeldtMay 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

If you have flown in the last few years, the NSA and NRO already have pictures of your junk. If you make the NSA erase theirs, the NRO will still have theirs

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:58 PM★ Spotlighted

and then they wonder why we don't trust the system?? UH CUZ WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:58 PM

When I show mine, I am generally BEING an asshole to society.

Wes LeeMay 20, 2014, 11:58 PM

they cheer for terrorists attacks because it further reinforces the need for them

Johnathonfall thethirdMay 20, 2014, 11:58 PM

Still way to many Americans using the "I have nothing to hide" excuse. They're not understanding that you private collected data is being sold to the highest scumbag bidder and more than likely used to undermine you or others connected to you.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:58 PM

That's why random violence doesn't work, and never will.

Mano DogsMay 20, 2014, 11:59 PM

But plotting it is getting harder, Daniel...

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:59 PM

It has to be so broadreach that it hits them in all the critical spots.

Rachel McDonnellMay 20, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

yay! I was so happy I didn't have to watch my nephews tonight so I was able to make it. Great Tawk everyone! Thanks Lee and Eleanor! :)

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:59 PM

Indeed.

Lucy DyerMay 20, 2014, 11:59 PM

shit that was a great tawk Lee and Eleanor! thank you :-)

Tony CarrMay 20, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Fracking is a crime against nature even with all the protests nothing changes, very frustrating.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Thanks everyone, been awesome.

Daniel YoungMay 20, 2014, 11:59 PM

Tim - you still around?

Mano DogsMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM

Yeah all this marching and signing petitions ad nauseam doesn't really seem to work, huh?

Kevin ArrhMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM

See you all in a FEMA camp in the near future! LOL

Wes LeeMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Peace Eleanor n Lee, Yall have a great night, Yall are cool peeps

Parry NattkemperMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Thanks everyone

Mitchell HeldtMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM

ping pong size hail. prepping for tornado. GWC?

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

A topic that is resistant to sidelines! lol :p These hour things fly by.

Mano DogsMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM

I <3 ALL YOU TAWKERS!

Lucy DyerMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM

love you to mano!

Mitchell HeldtMay 21, 2014, 12:00 AM

Want to discus sewage to fuel?

Tony CarrMay 21, 2014, 12:01 AM

Hillary is to the right of Obama, we have to stop going for "safe" and find leaders who will listen to the people.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:01 AM

We would need like 3 hours to discuss everything about everything being brought up from a single topic.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:01 AM

Hillary needs to wake up.. If that's possible.

Mano DogsMay 21, 2014, 12:02 AM

I need to tackle a sewage issue of my own right now. I'll try to see you all next Tuesday. Enjoy!

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:02 AM

Okay after party, who knows about Earthing?

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:03 AM

It's as easy as taking off your shoes and standing in the grass.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:03 AM

And it can save you hundreds in future medical bills.

Dawn AdamsMay 21, 2014, 12:03 AM

I haven't heard of Earthing.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:03 AM

don't believe it? Try it out. In just 10 minutes you can feel your temperature normalize.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:04 AM

As it helps blood flow.

Dawn AdamsMay 21, 2014, 12:04 AM

I garden barefoot.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:04 AM

Neat. It's all something we as a species has taken for granted, even though there was once upon a time a point where everyone was Earthing.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:04 AM

Before the industrial revolution.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:05 AM

They didn't realize that we have an electrical connection with the planet.

Dawn AdamsMay 21, 2014, 12:05 AM

A former Penobscot chief runs marathons barefoot

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:06 AM

That's only possible through Earthing. Shoes and socks that insulate denies your feet the power of the earth and ruins your gait.

Tony CarrMay 21, 2014, 12:06 AM

Earthlings is a great movie about how animals are treated but it is hardcore. Hard to sit through.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:06 AM

We have thousands of nerve endings on the bottom of our feet, through evolution, that correspond to our entire body.

Daniel YoungMay 21, 2014, 12:07 AM

Yeah. I remember that, I don't think I managed the whole way through.

Tony CarrMay 21, 2014, 12:09 AM

Great discussion, good night y'all.