Katie Klabusich

Host

Racism and Sexism are Over, Right??

Dec 18, 2013·54 visitors

Mychal Smith

Cohost

Stage· 156 messages

Dec 18, 2013

What's the obsession w/milestones & checking off inconvenient items from our cultural to-do list? The right claimed misogyny ended w/suffrage & racism ended w/President Obama. (or was it Rosa Parks?) The left needs to congratulate us for growing as a society.nnJoining me to discuss his piece in The Nation "Yes, America Has Gotten Better About Racism, but It Really Doesn't Matter" & whether this better/worse/over narrative hinders real progress is commentating baddass Mychal Denzel Smith!

Katie Klabusich · 4:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin

“Welcome to the Forum! To get involved, click "Who's Here" and then FOLLOW people.”

Katie Klabusich · 4:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin

“Once 25 people gather in the audience, a comment needs at least one LIKE to become visible to the two Hosts and anyone not following them. So LIKE the comments you want everyone to see!”

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

Hi, everyone, thanks for joining us!

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hey Katie & Mychal. Looking forward to this”

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

First, if you're new to Tawkers, Mychal and I will see comments that get a thumbs-up from "listeners" and then we can throw them into the chat. So help each other out by highlighting anything you want us to respond to!

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

Mychal Denzel Smith is a writer and social commentator who's all over the place from MSNBC to every progressive podcast worth your time <grin> and who's stuff you should be reading in The Nation, The Guardian, and The Grio among other publications.

Katie Klabusich · 12:00 AM

Mychal, thanks for joining me!

Mychal Smith · 12:00 AM

it's my pleasure, thanks for inviting me

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

I really dug your piece for The Nation "Yes, America Has Gotten Better About Racism, but It Really Doesn'tBack to real life Matter." ( http://ow.ly/rL0He ) And I heard you discuss it on a panel for Melissa Harris-Perry's Show.

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

The way you described your instinctual reaction to the question "Is America better about racism?" in all its variations got me thinking about that type of question in general. You describe the framing "Is <blank> getting better?" as "useless." It al

Katie Klabusich · 12:01 AM

**also seems like a lazy question -- better for whom? better than what? How often do you get that question with specifics or context?

Mychal Smith · 12:02 AM

yeah, it's useless in the sense that the comparison doesn't have any material benefits for anyone

Mychal Smith · 12:02 AM

sure, things are better now than they were doing the hundreds of years of chattel slavery. how exactly does it being better translate into justice and freedom now?

Mychal Smith · 12:03 AM

are people who are victims of the racist prison industrial complex supposed to take solace in the fact that it's "better" than slavery?

Katie Klabusich · 12:03 AM

Those at least would be specific questions. The is it better sounds like the interviewer version of "hey, how are ya?" or "what's up?"

Mychal Smith · 12:04 AM

so yes, when we ask the question "are things better?" question is one that's grating because it asks us to find comfort in the progress, rather than working on the current manifestations of oppression

Katie Klabusich · 12:05 AM

Right. Also, you get it a lot. Like A LOT. That has to be exhausting, finding the direction of a conversation useless and happening over and over again. Why do you think people fall back on it?

Katie Klabusich · 12:05 AM

Is it just laziness?

Katie Klabusich · 12:06 AM

Uh. I

Katie Klabusich · 12:06 AM

I'm a magnet for tech issues. <insert elevator hold music>

Katie Klabusich · 12:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“greensleeves gain?”

Katie Klabusich · 12:07 AM

Heh….nice choice, Lucy.

Katie Klabusich · 12:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“its a classic :-)”

Katie Klabusich · 12:08 AM

Huzzah! small talk saves the moment. ;)

Mychal Smith · 12:09 AM

i don't think it's laziness, i think it's fear

Mychal Smith · 12:09 AM

i think people are really just afraid of what it means to still live in a white supremacist capitalist patriarchy, when they've been taught their world is different/better

Katie Klabusich · 12:10 AM

If people are forced to learn/see, they might have to actually DO something?

Katie Klabusich · 12:10 AM

Good question from Lucy who's in the UK --

Katie Klabusich · 12:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“is racism just confined to colour?”

Mychal Smith · 12:12 AM

yeah, if they're a person actually committed to the ideas they profess around justice, equality and freedom, what then would it mean to exist in a world where those are not a reality for some people? and not just that...

Mychal Smith · 12:12 AM

a world where they themselves benefit from the system that denies people equality, justice and freedom? they may have to change the system

Katie Klabusich · 12:12 AM

That would be terrifying to the majority of people.

Mychal Smith · 12:13 AM

racism has become more closely identified with color, but it's not the source. race was constructed around color in the US because they people who were enslaved happened to be darker skinned

Mychal Smith · 12:14 AM

if those european settlers were able to enslave another group of europeans, race and racism would have been constructed around something else

Katie Klabusich · 12:15 AM

Is it our history that maintains color as a basis for discrimination? I know our white male ruling class has enveloped ethnic groups as needed into the "white" category when their majority has been threatened by population fluctuation.

Katie Klabusich · 12:16 AM

Or is it something basic like habit? Parents and communities who pass down a way of thinking and a language that's perpetuated by a governmental structure of white supremacy?

Katie Klabusich · 12:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“that is so true over here,Katie. sadly.....”

Katie Klabusich · 12:17 AM

(reinforced, rather than perpetuated)

Katie Klabusich · 12:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“but you can have racism against white people tho,cant you? why does does it always seem to be racism against those of a darker skin?”

Katie Klabusich · 12:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Lucy, racism isn't just confined to color. Especially in America, we have a stellar history of ostracizing and caricaturizing (is that a word?)...the Irish, the Italians, Chinese, etc.”

Mychal Smith · 12:18 AM

it's our history of who has had and maintains power. so from the start it has been a group that has been defined as white. that's where power rests, in whiteness.

Katie Klabusich · 12:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“We do it now, too - "hillbillies" and "rednecks" are definitely "less than" other groups of whites.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:19 AM

I hear what Rebecca is saying, and there's a definite rigging of the system against people of poverty and lesser levels of education, but there isn't the systematic and structural

Mychal Smith · 12:19 AM

Rebecca is raising an important point i want to address/think through some more

Katie Klabusich · 12:20 AM

discrimination that we've created in America that affects people of color.

Mychal Smith · 12:20 AM

there are people who are white who don't always have access to the power of whiteness. so it would appear

Katie Klabusich · 12:20 AM

That's a really interesting way to put it.

Mychal Smith · 12:21 AM

but i think that's what's so ingenious about the whole thing. racism has fooled some people into believing that they do or will

Mychal Smith · 12:22 AM

that's why when people ask me if the real problem isn't just one of economics, i flinch, becomes white supremacy/racism affects that discussion as well

Mychal Smith · 12:22 AM

for all of the lack of mobility inherent in our economic system, there is still a certain amount of capital afford to whiteness that can/may allow for more opportunity

Katie Klabusich · 12:24 AM

There's more knowledge about how to work the system within the white community. Fewer first time college grads, first time home owners, etc. Community knowledge that's available.

Katie Klabusich · 12:24 AM

Just look at which schools are closing around the country.

Katie Klabusich · 12:25 AM

There's simply less support to start with.

Katie Klabusich · 12:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“to me,and this is just my opinion,i find it kinda funny when those who are religious,"have a go" at people of colour and think white people are more superior. wasnt Jesus a coloured person?”

Katie Klabusich · 12:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“A long-haired hippie jew-boy, if at all. Sounds like my kinda guy!”

Katie Klabusich · 12:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“lol @rebecca”

Mychal Smith · 12:25 AM

poverty is deplorable. but being poor and white is more advantageous than being poor and black. there's evidence to suggest it's even more advantageous than being middle class and black

Katie Klabusich · 12:25 AM

Yep. I know that first hand.

Katie Klabusich · 12:26 AM

I haven't exactly had it easy, but my privilege is apparent. I moved to NYC with literally nothing, relatively sure I'd "figure it out" and land some crappy service job (or 2 or 3) if needed.

Katie Klabusich · 12:27 AM

I'm a "nice looking" white chick. I'm more likely to land a job at an interview.

Katie Klabusich · 12:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Yes, Mychal, I hear you - I know that even if salaries are higher, blacks find it harder to find housing outside of black neighborhoods. But I'm a woman from the poor white South, and that's pretty low on the totem pole.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Not a lot of community knowledge to draw from, and ostracism in the face of the regional accent.”

Mychal Smith · 12:28 AM

i get that, Rebecca. but this is why i'm not that interested in comparing oppressions. i'd rather acknowledge they exist, but also note the differences, then work to end them all

Katie Klabusich · 12:29 AM

That's an awesome transition. Nicely done, Mychal. ;)

Katie Klabusich · 12:30 AM

The left and the right have different motives to the desire to "check off" cultural to-do list items like racism -- which ended with President Obama was elected according to the right-wing.

Mychal Smith · 12:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“So what are your suggestions to work to end all oppressions? I agree that we could spend all day comparing them”

Katie Klabusich · 12:30 AM

…or was it with Rosa Parks? (The GOP tweeted her their congratulations recently https://twitter.com/GOP/statuses/407161769069924352 )

Katie Klabusich · 12:31 AM

But the left has its own issues. We like to do the self-congratulatory thing that leads to the "look how far we've come!" conversation.

Mychal Smith · 12:31 AM

Clarice, i think it comes down to recognizing where you're complicit, then actively working to undo the damage

Katie Klabusich · 12:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“doesnt everything we have a problem with,start with teaching the kids right from wrong? altho,to be honest why are we not teaching them right from wrong? there are way too many points of views and differences.”

Mychal Smith · 12:32 AM

i'm a cisgender man in a patriarchy. it's incumbent upon me to take not of the privileges afford me, then counter them by extending what privilege i have to those who suffer under that particular system

Katie Klabusich · 12:33 AM

Lucy -- the trick is that we won't agree on "right" or "wrong" or anything in between. Take a look at how we pick textbooks in the US if you ever feel you're having too nice of a day.

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“I've been reading A People's History of the US lately, and it seems that racism and sexism have been carefully constructed and reinforced through public policy OVER AND OVER again.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Which leads me to wonder, is there really any element of human nature in it?”

Katie Klabusich · 12:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“I mean, they seem to be constructed concepts. So maybe we can just stop.”

Mychal Smith · 12:34 AM

i'm not a lawmaker, but if a law reifies sexism, i can campaign against it. i'm a writer. i can tell different stories that don't center the experiences of men that then reinforce patriarchy.

Mychal Smith · 12:34 AM

i can change my language and behavior once i've identified it as sexist

Katie Klabusich · 12:35 AM

In your piece you said ""So long as we’re caught up in celebrating our “progress,” we neglect the opportunity to do the necessary work required to actually uproot racism and white supremacy."

Katie Klabusich · 12:35 AM

So is the continually assessment and need for comparison detracting from the real work people like you are doing to change the culture, the conversation and the ultimately the system?

Katie Klabusich · 12:35 AM

(continual)

Katie Klabusich · 12:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“That is so on-pointe, Mychal. I've been carefully focusing on my words lately - and when I change my words, I change my thoughts and my actions.”

Mychal Smith · 12:37 AM

well, the comparison, not the assessment. we should constantly be assessing. it's the "we've come so far!" that i think has us stagnant

Katie Klabusich · 12:37 AM

understood

Mychal Smith · 12:37 AM

if we keep celebrating our achievements, it can distract from the work that still lies ahead

Katie Klabusich · 12:38 AM

Isn't there also an inherent "you should be grateful you live in this day and age" to the how-far-we've-come talking point? Or is that just my passive aggressive upbringing reading into it?

Mychal Smith · 12:38 AM

not to say that we shouldn't celebrate. but we have to do so in a way that allows us to then refocus on the fight

Mychal Smith · 12:38 AM

no, that's definitely a part of it

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

Cause OH MY do I hear that a lot in discussions of gender and feminism. // Agreed. There's acknowledging accompaniment and then there's using it as a distraction/detraction.

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“or the classic "you've never had so good" to the "back in my day..."”

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“I think women and any minority group get the "what do you want, now?" or "Aren't you happy yet?" treatment almost reflexively.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:39 AM

Rebecca -- that shit makes me rage-y.

Mychal Smith · 12:39 AM

because there are so many people doing work now to change these systems, those in power will blast back "we gave you so much already, why aren't you happy yet???"

Katie Klabusich · 12:40 AM

Yeah. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

Katie Klabusich · 12:40 AM

I have a one word answer for that: equality.

Katie Klabusich · 12:40 AM

<shrug>

Mychal Smith · 12:40 AM

exactly

Katie Klabusich · 12:41 AM

It really feels that simple intellectually to me. And I find it frustrating trying to impart empathy onto people who say things like "Well, NOW whaddya want."

Katie Klabusich · 12:41 AM

What do we do to reach the empathy deficient? Or do we just have to work around them?

Katie Klabusich · 12:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“It's fairly apparent these last few weeks in the whole white CHristian "Put CHrist back into Christmas" uproar. "Why do we have to change OUR holiday?!?!" And the rhetoric goes from "We're the opressed" to "We're the Majority (subtext: so shut up)!"”

Katie Klabusich · 12:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“How do we work to find how they've been marginalized?”

Katie Klabusich · 12:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“maybe there are just some who will never come round to the idea of equality.”

Mychal Smith · 12:43 AM

for me, it's not worth the fight. i'm not going change that person's mind. i'm not so interested in talking to brick walls. i'd rather just plow through them.

Katie Klabusich · 12:43 AM

I like it.

Mychal Smith · 12:44 AM

Clarice: listen to them. they're out here writing/shouting every day. all you have to do is tune in and listen

Katie Klabusich · 12:44 AM

I kinda picture an enormous snow plow….

Katie Klabusich · 12:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“With the Christmas 'debate' - I always want to say - you can have your holiday, now please let me have mine, or not. Either way, you're not minimized”

Katie Klabusich · 12:45 AM

Clarice makes a point that has a direct line back to equality -- the white, patriarchal power structure really does seem to think that if they "cave" to us, they'll be losing some rights.

Katie Klabusich · 12:45 AM

As though we can't all just have the rights.

Katie Klabusich · 12:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Ha, Clarice! Exactly.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:45 AM

We heard it the most starkly in the marriage equality fight -- "gay marriage will hurt heterosexual marriage." really?

Katie Klabusich · 12:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“They really do seem threatened. Anger is a manifestation of fear. So odd.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“Exactly. You can have your right to xxx, and I'll have mine to do zzz, and both of us are better for it”

Mychal Smith · 12:46 AM

well, yeah. that's fear. but not fear of any actual rights, fear of the privilege that comes along with their identity in this current structure

Katie Klabusich · 12:46 AM

Yeah, the end of the game being rigged.

Katie Klabusich · 12:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“@Rebecca, indeed - I've seen so much anger out of fear”

Mychal Smith · 12:46 AM

they knew who they are as white men in a white supremacist capitalist patriarchy. who will they be if that doesn't exist any more? they're afraid to find out

Katie Klabusich · 12:46 AM

Who would they be?

Katie Klabusich · 12:47 AM

If I may ask the question.

Katie Klabusich · 12:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“AS if hetero couples had some outstanding legacy of purity and devotion... :D”

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“One of the rest of us, where all of us are doing well. in my opinion”

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Just people. They'd just be people.”

Mychal Smith · 12:48 AM

i have no idea. i have no idea who i'd be under a different system, based on equality/justice/freedom for all, either. but i want to find out

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

Me too, my friend.

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

I had to take a minute to just picture that world.

Katie Klabusich · 12:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“scared of change,of changing their way of life.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:49 AM

Everything would have to change -- from the history books to the economic structure to the governmental structure.

Katie Klabusich · 12:50 AM

I've seen the studies on anti depressants in our tap water -- we might have to actually up that to handle all the rich white men freaking out.

Mychal Smith · 12:51 AM

right. and the fear, it seems, is that once those things change, white men would no longer be special. well, they aren't all particularly special now, but the power and privilege that's afforded whiteness and maleness would disappear

Katie Klabusich · 12:51 AM

Hahaha. Yeah, but don't tell them they're not special….at least not without a lot of other people around.

Mychal Smith · 12:52 AM

then what? then who are you? then who are we? we're human being trying to figure this whole thing out. we're at square one, as it were

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

That sounds amazing.

Katie Klabusich · 12:52 AM

We might actually have to get to know each other as -- gasp! -- human beings.

Katie Klabusich · 12:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“But...it's okay. It's okay to let go of power and control. I mean, most of our life-changing moments happen when we, as individuals, let go.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“too true rebecca”

Mychal Smith · 12:53 AM

yeah, and form community and society and civilization based on the idea that we're all equal. that's too much to handle for rich white dudes. and they've got allies now

Katie Klabusich · 12:53 AM

Holy shit, that's totally what I want for Christmas.

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

the community and society and civilization based on equality.

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“Bill Hicks had the right idea then...”

Katie Klabusich · 12:54 AM

Alright, Lucy -- give us the quote you're thinking of.

Katie Klabusich · 12:55 AM

Before I forget, everyone go follow Mychal on twitter -- https://twitter.com/mychalsmith

Katie Klabusich · 12:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“It's past time. Humans have been in this really awkward prolonged adolescence for much longer than was cute. It's time to grow up. I mean, really.”

Katie Klabusich · 12:55 AM

I like that phrase "prolonged adolescence." It really does feel that way.

Katie Klabusich · 12:55 AM

From our resident Bill Hicks historian:

Katie Klabusich · 12:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

““The world is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly”

Katie Klabusich · 12:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question: "Is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey, d”

Katie Klabusich · 12:57 AM

Thanks, Mychal for chatting tonight! Tell everyone where they can read your stuff? Is there a central website or FB page?

Katie Klabusich · 12:57 AM

Cause you write for the everyone.

Katie Klabusich · 12:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“@Lucy: Reminds me of the book, the Giver - where color vision was taken away from all, but one boy who can see color, and the whole system eventually falls when the people rise against the oppression”

Mychal Smith · 12:58 AM

thanks for having me! i'm horrible at updating my FB page/website/all that jazz. but people can follow me on twitter, and check TheNation.com where I write weekly, and Feministing.com where I also contribute

Katie Klabusich · 12:59 AM

Yes, GO AND READ THINGS. And Mychal's a great twitter follow. Super responsive. (as long as you're not a jerk)

Katie Klabusich · 1:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“thanks for Tawk you guys. was interesting. :-)”

Katie Klabusich · 1:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“"You write for the everyone" I really like that. :)”

Mychal Smith · 1:00 AM

haha

Katie Klabusich · 1:00 AM

Thanks so much everybody for taking time during a busy part of the year. Hopefully I'll have Mychal back, so if you have stuff you want to hear us talk about, let me know!

Katie Klabusich · 1:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clarice Piper

“Thanks all”

Katie Klabusich · 1:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Thank you both so much!”

Forum · 70

Forum· 70 comments

54 visitors

Tawkers AdminDec 15, 2013, 4:15 PM★ Spotlighted

Welcome to the Forum! To get involved, click "Who's Here" and then FOLLOW people.

Tawkers AdminDec 15, 2013, 4:15 PM★ Spotlighted

Once 25 people gather in the audience, a comment needs at least one LIKE to become visible to the two Hosts and anyone not following them. So LIKE the comments you want everyone to see!

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

hey Katie & Mychal. Looking forward to this

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:07 AM★ Spotlighted

greensleeves gain?

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:08 AM★ Spotlighted

its a classic :-)

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:10 AM★ Spotlighted

is racism just confined to colour?

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:13 AM

may have? i think a complete over haul of society is needed

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:13 AM

people are VERY stuck in thier ways,god knows how long it will take to change that

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:15 AM★ Spotlighted

but you can have racism against white people tho,cant you? why does does it always seem to be racism against those of a darker skin?

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:16 AM★ Spotlighted

that is so true over here,Katie. sadly.....

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:18 AM★ Spotlighted

Lucy, racism isn't just confined to color. Especially in America, we have a stellar history of ostracizing and caricaturizing (is that a word?)...the Irish, the Italians, Chinese, etc.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:18 AM

which,in an odd way,brings it nicely round to sexism - does it not?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:19 AM★ Spotlighted

We do it now, too - "hillbillies" and "rednecks" are definitely "less than" other groups of whites.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:19 AM

and then there is religion too. (sighs) and so it goes on

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:19 AM

Geez. This Christmas anger thing has really gotten out of control this year...

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:20 AM

ha! i dont feel christmassy at all this year. its kinda passed me by

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:20 AM

Me, too, Lucy! I'm down for the count. Don't care. Bah, humbug! :D

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:22 AM★ Spotlighted

to me,and this is just my opinion,i find it kinda funny when those who are religious,"have a go" at people of colour and think white people are more superior. wasnt Jesus a coloured person?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:23 AM★ Spotlighted

A long-haired hippie jew-boy, if at all. Sounds like my kinda guy!

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:23 AM★ Spotlighted

lol @rebecca

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:25 AM

also,it seems that those of a darker skin kinda carry on the "myth" that black people have bad etc etc....which is sad in this day and age.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:26 AM

sorry i cant find the right words to express myself here,please excuse :-)

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:26 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes, Mychal, I hear you - I know that even if salaries are higher, blacks find it harder to find housing outside of black neighborhoods. But I'm a woman from the poor white South, and that's pretty low on the totem pole.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:27 AM★ Spotlighted

Not a lot of community knowledge to draw from, and ostracism in the face of the regional accent.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:27 AM

yes

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:27 AM

I had to learn to speak differently to move outside the region.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:29 AM

Right on!

Clarice PiperDec 18, 2013, 12:29 AM★ Spotlighted

So what are your suggestions to work to end all oppressions? I agree that we could spend all day comparing them

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:30 AM★ Spotlighted

I've been reading A People's History of the US lately, and it seems that racism and sexism have been carefully constructed and reinforced through public policy OVER AND OVER again.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:30 AM★ Spotlighted

Which leads me to wonder, is there really any element of human nature in it?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:31 AM★ Spotlighted

I mean, they seem to be constructed concepts. So maybe we can just stop.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:32 AM

That sounds flippant, but it's not. Maybe we can JUST STOP.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:32 AM★ Spotlighted

doesnt everything we have a problem with,start with teaching the kids right from wrong? altho,to be honest why are we not teaching them right from wrong? there are way too many points of views and differences.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:33 AM

everyone will say "do it this way.." or "do it that way.." will there ever be just one way?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:34 AM

Lucy, there won't ever be just one way, but it would be nice if humans could learn a balanced and nuanced approach instead of this sickening pendulum-swing that we prefer...

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:35 AM

yeah it would be nice. one day perhaps,one day

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:36 AM★ Spotlighted

That is so on-pointe, Mychal. I've been carefully focusing on my words lately - and when I change my words, I change my thoughts and my actions.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:36 AM

think of it this way Katie,hasnt what Occupy done taken a while to get into peoples minds? wouldnt this be the same kinda thing?

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:38 AM★ Spotlighted

or the classic "you've never had so good" to the "back in my day..."

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:39 AM★ Spotlighted

I think women and any minority group get the "what do you want, now?" or "Aren't you happy yet?" treatment almost reflexively.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:41 AM★ Spotlighted

It's fairly apparent these last few weeks in the whole white CHristian "Put CHrist back into Christmas" uproar. "Why do we have to change OUR holiday?!?!" And the rhetoric goes from "We're the opressed" to "We're the Majority (subtext: so shut up)!"

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:42 AM

It's like lashing out at progressive movements.

Clarice PiperDec 18, 2013, 12:42 AM★ Spotlighted

How do we work to find how they've been marginalized?

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:43 AM★ Spotlighted

maybe there are just some who will never come round to the idea of equality.

Clarice PiperDec 18, 2013, 12:44 AM★ Spotlighted

With the Christmas 'debate' - I always want to say - you can have your holiday, now please let me have mine, or not. Either way, you're not minimized

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:44 AM★ Spotlighted

Ha, Clarice! Exactly.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:44 AM

chrismtas is made up anyways by the corporations. so who is the bigger fool?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:45 AM★ Spotlighted

They really do seem threatened. Anger is a manifestation of fear. So odd.

Clarice PiperDec 18, 2013, 12:45 AM★ Spotlighted

Exactly. You can have your right to xxx, and I'll have mine to do zzz, and both of us are better for it

Clarice PiperDec 18, 2013, 12:46 AM★ Spotlighted

@Rebecca, indeed - I've seen so much anger out of fear

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:46 AM★ Spotlighted

AS if hetero couples had some outstanding legacy of purity and devotion... :D

Clarice PiperDec 18, 2013, 12:47 AM★ Spotlighted

One of the rest of us, where all of us are doing well. in my opinion

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:47 AM★ Spotlighted

Just people. They'd just be people.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:48 AM★ Spotlighted

scared of change,of changing their way of life.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:51 AM

rich white men freaking out? hey,we women get PMS,we can handle them easy

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:52 AM★ Spotlighted

But...it's okay. It's okay to let go of power and control. I mean, most of our life-changing moments happen when we, as individuals, let go.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:53 AM★ Spotlighted

too true rebecca

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:53 AM★ Spotlighted

Bill Hicks had the right idea then...

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 12:55 AM★ Spotlighted

It's past time. Humans have been in this really awkward prolonged adolescence for much longer than was cute. It's time to grow up. I mean, really.

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:55 AM★ Spotlighted

“The world is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:55 AM★ Spotlighted

coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question: "Is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey, d

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:56 AM

"Hey, don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we kill those people.”

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:56 AM

or theres - "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 12:57 AM

all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here’s Tom with the weather."

Clarice PiperDec 18, 2013, 12:58 AM★ Spotlighted

@Lucy: Reminds me of the book, the Giver - where color vision was taken away from all, but one boy who can see color, and the whole system eventually falls when the people rise against the oppression

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 1:00 AM★ Spotlighted

"You write for the everyone" I really like that. :)

Lucy DyerDec 18, 2013, 1:00 AM★ Spotlighted

thanks for Tawk you guys. was interesting. :-)

Clarice PiperDec 18, 2013, 1:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Thanks all

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 18, 2013, 1:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Thank you both so much!

Blake IanDec 31, 2013, 2:44 PM

Just got a chance to come back and read this Tawk... great one! Thanks Katie and Mychal!