Jordan Birnbaum

Host

Reaching The Same Place From Opposite Directions

Sep 25, 2013·1,833 visitors

Amy Holmes

Cohost

Stage· 186 messages

Sep 25, 2013

We all have our own ideas about HOW the government ought to behave. But WHAT exactly are we trying to achieve? And WHY do we think the things that we do? With things this dysfunctional in Washington, it's probably time to explore some new questions. So Amy and I are going to Tawk it out.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

Ms. Amy Holmes, I presume?

Amy Holmes · 1:00 AM

Jordan, what a pleasure!

Amy Holmes · 1:00 AM

Right off the top, all spelling errors must be forgiven.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

Hi! Thank you so much for being here tonight -I am incredibly excited for this Tawk! and spelling is a suggestion, not a requirement on Tawkers!

Amy Holmes · 1:01 AM

I'm excited, too. Even a bit nervous. Never communicated in this medium before. I'd like to address one tawkers immediate contention -- that we're not all trying to get to the same place.

Amy Holmes · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clinton Freeman

“Who says "we" want to "reach" the same place?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

Well, on a certain level, that is our thesis tonight. What I think we can assume is that we all advocate for what we believe to be the "best" course of action for the country.

Amy Holmes · 1:03 AM

so, if I may before we launch into specifics. I agree. We all want the best course of action. But I also think we agree on some more specific goals. Just not the same way of achieving them. Take it away.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

Well to that point, I think we agree (amy correct me if I'm wrong) that the very ideas of Democrat and Republican, left and right have become quite poorly defined.

Amy Holmes · 1:04 AM

PS. My BB keeps buzzing with new listeners and participants. Please everyone, write in and share your thoughts

Amy Holmes · 1:05 AM

I agree that partisan labels are misleading. Parties work for parties. Ideas are another matter.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

PS -I don't think you're supposed to admit you still have a blackbaerry.

Amy Holmes · 1:05 AM

lol. I need the buttons. have big hands!

Amy Holmes · 1:05 AM

over to you.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

OK -So Amy and I want to start off tonight by shedding all labels and assumptions

Amy Holmes · 1:05 AM

got it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

And begin our discussion with a question of "what" we want. What we think government should do. And why.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

Then we'l take it from there.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“theres no place in politics for politicians.”

Amy Holmes · 1:06 AM

Okay. You start.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

OK -let's begin with the economy. I want three basic things from the government.

Amy Holmes · 1:07 AM

they are?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

1 -regulation of markets to ensure the necessary conditions for capitalism - no monopolies, no price collusion, etc.

Amy Holmes · 1:07 AM

agreed.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:08 AM

excellent -I think alot of people would have wrongly assumed you were against regulation, so right off the bat I think we're doing great!

Amy Holmes · 1:09 AM

Ha! I was an economics major. Anti-trust law is an important mechanism for ensuring fair and free markets. I wrote my senior thesis on the collusion in the music industry when only a few labels controlled it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:10 AM

I know -you graduated from Princeton with an economics degree. pretty badass.

Amy Holmes · 1:10 AM

technology has lowered the barriers to entry. but it use to be, if you wanted a record deal, and young unproven talent, you were screwed in your contract. I appreciate the problem of monopolies, well.

Amy Holmes · 1:11 AM

as for badass, we'll save that for solving the world's problems!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

quick side note -I think they are having fun in the audience, based on this:

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Let's just get naked and freaky!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

and he's my Republican friend...

Amy Holmes · 1:11 AM

Jordan is a handsome fella. I can attest. I've seen him I person!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:12 AM

#2 for what I want from my government in regards to the economy (blushing)

Amy Holmes · 1:12 AM

yes???

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:12 AM

Regulation of the money supply through the elimination of the privately held Federal reserve

Amy Holmes · 1:13 AM

Well, the Fed regulates the money supply. So, clarify...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

The Fed is a private corporation that charges the government interest on the money that it could print for itself.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

so I believe it creates a huge expense for the American taxpayer for the benefit of a few.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

I think libertarians are pretty hip to this idea.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

Ron and Rand Paul in particular.

Amy Holmes · 1:15 AM

You and libertarians agree. I don't feel compentent to weigh in fully. I don't like QE because it distorts incentives. Thus the stock run ups. The Fed is trading Wall Street for risky stocks. Seems to be a game of musical chairs.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:15 AM

and false prices on the stock market

Amy Holmes · 1:15 AM

If you believe in gravity, than you know it can't last. Taking bad stock bets off the backs of banks and sticking it to the tax payers seems like a really bad idea.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:16 AM

that is exactly right

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Now the dollar is an IOU for nothing.”

Amy Holmes · 1:16 AM

While I understand that they want to keep the banks liquid. Too big too fail. Failure is a feature of capitalism.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:16 AM

OK -so you can't agree without more information, but you still don't DISAGREE. so I still think we're doing pretty well.

Amy Holmes · 1:16 AM

Failure is discipline. Without it you have the Volga.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:17 AM

Right -I think that we can agree on an end to corporate welfare, correct?

Amy Holmes · 1:17 AM

By the way, just becase I like you and know you have a good heart and come form a good place, we CAN disagree. I'm sure we'll get to that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:17 AM

oh yeah, it's coming on the next one, I guarantee it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“exactly David!”

Amy Holmes · 1:18 AM

Corporate welfare is an abomination. In large part because the capitalists at corporations know better. They're just trying to gain an advantage over competitors through favorable tax policy and subsidies.

Amy Holmes · 1:18 AM

Shall we start with farm subsidies?

Amy Holmes · 1:18 AM

Or Solyndra?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:18 AM

Would you agree that these very people would be the bad guys in an Ayn Rand novel?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:19 AM

both government AND corporate

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Wait so is she saying that what goes up must come down? This conversation is difficult enough to follow as I don't know much about the stock market or how Wall Street works. We get into physics and I'm out.”

Amy Holmes · 1:19 AM

yes. Would agree that green energy policy that gives literally billions of tax payer backed loans is corrupt?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

Mano -the Fed is basically buying stock in order to keep the prices up. It keeps the richest 1% in great shape. But it will eventually crash.

Amy Holmes · 1:20 AM

Dear Mano Dogs, The Fed is buying up risky stocks from Wall Street to take those bets off their books. The banks get cash. But those bets haven't gone away.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

Back to your important question, Amy.

Amy Holmes · 1:21 AM

The left love corporate welfare when it advantages their goals.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:21 AM

I believe the government must engage in research and developmnent in order to drive progress in our society. However, I totally agree that the way things are in Washington makes ALL of these projects corrupt and lacking proper supervision.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:22 AM

The problem isn't government investing in R&D -the problem is the corruption that flourishes from a lack of regulation.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Think not Amy...remember the GOP doled out nearly $150 billion in "farm aid" to some of the richest corporations in America while cutting food stamps for the poorest Americans”

Amy Holmes · 1:23 AM

Ah... The question of R and D. Yes. There have been incredible breakthroughs in understand from government grants to science. but the commercially applicable breakthroughs have tended to come from the private sector. Smart people with vision.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

to be fair, Seth, she acknowledged that it's wrong on both sides.

Amy Holmes · 1:23 AM

To Seth's point. R's are just as guilt. Remember, they're politicians with constituents. Guess who voted consistently against farm subsidies and lost the Iowa caucus? john McCain.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:24 AM

I don't know that I agree with you there Amy. I don't know enough, but intuitively I feel like there's a lot of great stuff to come from government research, includiong the Internet.

Amy Holmes · 1:24 AM

Jordan, love how you're coming to my defense. very sweet. But no need. I do MSNBC every weekend.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I think I love her.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

Yes, and your affection is pouring in from all around.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clinton Freeman

“EVERY loan is a "taxpayer backed loan." The only difference is how many steps there is between Congress and the borrower.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

CDlinton that is a fair point I think we both agree with.

Amy Holmes · 1:26 AM

I'd like to bring attention to the great work of a good friend of mine. Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's. He is trying to get the money out of politics. But I fear that regulating at the end point is not the solution. The solution is getting governme

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“money out of politics - is a must.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“It may be getting worse but thanks to Citizens United, any pretense of Democracy was thrown out the window”

Amy Holmes · 1:26 AM

Getting government out of business. Gov't spending is nearly a quarter of the GDP. Of course you're going to lobby, fund campaigns.

Amy Holmes · 1:27 AM

Seth, interesting line of thought. you would argue that corporations are not people, as my friend Ben argues. problem is tax policy affects them too. Should they not have a say? the solution is getting government out of rigging the system

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

Amy do you support public financing of elections?! I'll be really excited if you do!

Amy Holmes · 1:29 AM

Sorry to disappoint. No. Not as a restriction. If I want to get three old biddies to fund me to run on the "Babies come for the stork" campaign, I should be able to.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:29 AM

assuming public financing of elections is the best way to get money out of politics....

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:29 AM

yes -but is that worth the cost of what happens in reality?

Amy Holmes · 1:29 AM

The best way to get money out of politics is to get politics out of money. let capitalists rise and fall on their own merits.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

what about campaign contributions in exchange for legistlation?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“When we act ideologically there are often unintended consequences. When we act to affect consequences it screws with ideology. Finding a balance that is practical, in everyone's best interest and politically expedient is almost impossible.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

nuanced and layered, Liz, and I agree with ALL of it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Swoon..”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:30 AM

David you're married

Amy Holmes · 1:31 AM

If I want to run a personal campaign using my wealth a riches (does hawking my flat screen TV count as "riches"?, I should be able to. I welcome all comers. Michael Huffington ran the most expensive campaign in history at the time. 20 million bucks

Amy Holmes · 1:31 AM

And lost

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Yes, I know, but I'm adding someone to my freebie list?..”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

OK -we're in a different universe on this one, so let's go back to the government and the econmy.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

becuase I think the huffington example is a statistical anomaly

Amy Holmes · 1:32 AM

George Will wrote about this well. We all hate money in politics. of course it's corrupting. What we need is rigorous transparency. And then let the voters decide

Amy Holmes · 1:33 AM

Nit really. Romney was well funded...

Amy Holmes · 1:33 AM

Not really. but nit is a funny word to use as well!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

lol

Amy Holmes · 1:33 AM

And #3?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

ok here's another place for a massive disagreement between us.

Amy Holmes · 1:34 AM

Bring it baby!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:34 AM

I want the government to establish a minimally acceptable standard of living for all citizens as the building block for the society.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

literally, we start there and build around that

Amy Holmes · 1:35 AM

Ahhh... The living wage. We disagree on that. I believe it disincentavizes work. Did I spell that

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

Well -I have some other ideas that might make you choke, but before we go there...

Amy Holmes · 1:35 AM

What I support is a safety net for those on hard times, for those who are unable for physical or mental reasons, and support to get people educated properly to be able to make a decent wage.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

So I know alot of people believe in the disincentive theory. Is that based on intuition, a basic understanding of human nature, or have studies backed that up?

Amy Holmes · 1:37 AM

Today I passed a young man panhandling on the street with the sign that he was homeless. I couldn't help but thin, why? Homeless means no job. Is he mentally ill? Is he disabled. why? I think we need to better at locating the reasons.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“What incentive is there Amy for a guy working 40 hours a week with no hope of a raise, little job skills, and no way to afford paying for rent”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

well, I thihnk we have to realize that the jobs they can get pay so little that they would be homeless even working

Amy Holmes · 1:37 AM

Dear Seth, there is the hope that one day you'll send two kids to private school, one of whom will be on an internet an chat with you.

Amy Holmes · 1:38 AM

Which is not to say that my family was destitute. We were not. but we scraped. my mom went back to work to scrub floors to pay my tuition, and then my brothers. our family worked damn hard.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

The belief that opportunity exists and laziness of charater flaws is what is keeping people from work is impossible for me to accept

Amy Holmes · 1:39 AM

It's not laziness. It's a system that traps people. It almost trapped my mom when she was a single mom with two kids struggling. But she said no. She saw the trap and kept moving forward.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

well, I fear that the educated and successful have lost perspective or understandng on how difficult things are out there.

Amy Holmes · 1:41 AM

I also feel very, very deeply that our educational system is a shambles and the people suffering most are those who are trapped. I lie in NY. If I had a kid, I couldn't afford to send him to private school.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

When I owned Vanguard, I had 100 employees in low wage jobs. Even with my being extraordinarily generous, it was verey hard for them to survive. and they worked their asses off.

Amy Holmes · 1:41 AM

But I couldn't morally afford to send him to public school. And I mean that in terms of the three R's.

Amy Holmes · 1:41 AM

we were writing at the same time.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

so it sounds like you support a reinvestment in the educational infrastructure?

Amy Holmes · 1:42 AM

Totally. Starting with a way out. I love with SEED school in DC is doing. Are you familiar?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

no pease share

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“There will always be work that must be done but is dead end and without great value. Those that do that work, actually work very hard, but have little to show for it. Those are the people who really need help.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

right LIz

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

we have to take care of them

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Anyus Grasso

“Most people want to move forward. But want if they can't? What if there's no possibility of getting to a better place when they need it most? The "they should get a better job" would work great if there was 0% unemployment, but that's not the case...”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“ty Jordan, which is largely my point as well.”

Amy Holmes · 1:43 AM

Ahh.. SEED school is an urban boarding school. Lottery system. Parents are interviewed to make sure they will be invested in their kids. No social promotion. Started by young people who were appalled by the DC schools.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

Be even better if you didn't have to win a lottery, but at least it's a start

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from Clinton Freeman

“But you can pay tuition for YOUR kid to get educated at a private school or you can pay taxes for EVERY kid to be educated at a public school.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“Actually, I pay both.”

Amy Holmes · 1:44 AM

Forgive me. When I say lottery system, that means no skimming. All applications are considered equally.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

ahh, even better! How about the point of private school tuition vs. taxes for public school?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“i.e., If you made the public educational system better, all of society would improve. AND, if you prefer ONLY YOUR kids be better educated, you're actually going to reach a bottleneck where there's nothing but competition for a very limited number of”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:46 AM

good point dude

Amy Holmes · 1:46 AM

Wow! I'm seeing that our tawkers care about education policy as much as I do. It hurts me deeply that generation after generation of kids is getting left behind. Seriously.

Amy Holmes · 1:47 AM

DC spends the most per capita on its students and has one of the worst outcomes in the country. We need to think better people! I'm begging you.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“What amazes me is with all the budget cuts to schools, veterans, healthcare, there is always money for War and Weapons in the good ol' USA”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

seth makes a fair point, Amy

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“amen Seth”

Amy Holmes · 1:48 AM

I really like the NY chief who made parents get involved. Studies show... (yes, I know, but it's true.) Studies show that parental involvement is the greatest predictor of academic success.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

Yes, but that may be correlation, not causation -too hard to know

Amy Holmes · 1:49 AM

Not money. Not standards testing. Parents.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“We have cut things that help students, like PE, and only feed them well now that we have learned how badly they were being fed. Remember ketchup is a vegetable. Even school lunch is taken over by larger corporations.”

Amy Holmes · 1:49 AM

A KY superintendant years ago made parents come into the classroom at least once a semester. At the time he got results. Would have to look again and see how it's doing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

but Seth and Liz and Lucy are making points about where we choose to direct our resources.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

I think with resources we could help create circumstances for students and parents to foster the best possible outcomes

Amy Holmes · 1:50 AM

I totally agree on the food thing. did you see SuperSize me? Also, childhood diabetes is an epidemic.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:51 AM

I guess the hope is that if we can agree on the importance of these issues, that when we start to divy up the pie, we have these educational priorities high enough on the list.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“for the price you pay for war,you can pay ALL teachers full wage for 5 years!!!”

Amy Holmes · 1:51 AM

Right. I think we need to focus on what works. And if that means helping low income parents take a day off to come into classroom? That's a whole lot cheaper than a lot of so-called solutions.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:51 AM

that feels like an example of something both left and right could get behind

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

check us out making policy, Amy!

Amy Holmes · 1:53 AM

helping low income parents, no income parents, connect with their kids? A much better solution. And let the folks working in those communities do the hard work, trial and error. Support them. Forget the feds, frankly.

Amy Holmes · 1:53 AM

The feds only fund about 7% of ed spending. But they load it up with rules and regs.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

OK -so we still have a whole lot to cover. Social issues. Foreign Affairs. Government Ops. And what OWS and The Tea Party (prior to being taken over by corporate interests) have in common.

Amy Holmes · 1:54 AM

Okay. So we agree that jobs are better than dependency. but jobs are thin on the ground these days. I suspect you and I have will not agree on how to bring jobs back. but moving on...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

but we're coming up on an hour, so I'd like to go out on an issue of tone.

Amy Holmes · 1:55 AM

Alright, my dear. Hit it!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

Let's say the biggest disagreement we have in this Tawk is around the living wage.

Amy Holmes · 1:55 AM

yes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:56 AM

What I want all my lefty friends to understand is that you don't oppose the living wage because you want people to suffer. you oppose it because you think it will lead to bad outcomes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

I totally disagree with you, but the best solutions will likely arise from our going back and forth on why we think what we do.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Liz Williams

“Civil disagreement is a better method than one ideology smashing the other.”

Amy Holmes · 1:58 AM

Ha! That's funny. No. I'm not nasty Mrs. Hannigan. In fact, I think social policy to bend toward those least among us. Clever people will always be able to make money, in boom or bust times. They will always have access to the powerful.

Amy Holmes · 1:59 AM

I believe that those of us who are politically engaged need to look for solutions that help the least among us. I always have. and I wish more conservatives would be focused on that goal.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from David Kaufman

“I think we're all looking for a better world. Except Seth. I think he eats his pets. ;)”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Got my Golden Retriever sitting right next to me David”

Amy Holmes · 2:01 AM

As JFK said, rising tides lift all boats. Let's figure out how to get everyone above water. Death tax? I understand the conservative argument against it. It just doesn't seem like it ought to be a priority.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

Well, Amy I feel very proud to have engaged in a discussion like this. I think this is a representation on how things ought to be. And I appreciate and applaud your taking your stands on an issue by issue basis, and not part of some party line.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

Wow, Amy - that's a big one.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hot dog,Seth?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Poor dawg...”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Seth, don't forget to floss.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

we need a drummer for some rim shots with all these comedians.

Amy Holmes · 2:02 AM

Let's tawk about getting living, breathing people to work, supporting themselves, their families. Or being freaky Montana survivalists if they want. I believe in maximum freedom, including economic freedom.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

amen to that

Amy Holmes · 2:03 AM

And I am honored that you invited me to join in this tawk. Thank you. I hope there's a next time, and we can get into more specifics. In the meantime, In solidarity, Yours, A

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

I hope you hate private prisons as much as me.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

Yes Amy, I hope you'll come back. You were amazing. As were you audience!

Amy Holmes · 2:04 AM

Ah hell. Isn't life a private prison? only kidding. Sending you all good things.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“BYE AMY, I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

good night everyone. And remember, you are NOT alone.

Amy Holmes · 2:05 AM

Bye Mano Dogs, Don't know what that means, but love you, too!

Forum · 275

Forum· 275 comments

1,833 visitors

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Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 12:56 AM

Who says there ARE opposite directions?

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 12:57 AM

magnets

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 12:57 AM★ Spotlighted

Who says "we" want to "reach" the same place?

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 12:58 AM

Let the games begin!

Bryan KisselSep 25, 2013, 12:58 AM

how do they work?

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:00 AM

i cant wait for the tiddly-winks part....

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:00 AM

I *LOVE* Tiddly-Winks!

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:00 AM

hey JB and Amy! :-)

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:00 AM

Tiddly-Winks rock

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:00 AM

see JB will win that part

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:01 AM

now who brought the cheese and crackers? cos i'm starving

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:02 AM

Aaaaaand the cynicism right from the top...

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:02 AM

No food here, just fluff

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:02 AM

belly button fluff,Seth?

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:03 AM

In the US we've marshmallow gook called Fluff, which goes on sundaes

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:03 AM

we have Fluff here too. tis very yummy!

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:03 AM

I know the stuff has enough chemicals to choke a horse...but it tastes damn good!

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:04 AM

Shouldn't be choking horses.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:04 AM

have you had with the chocolate in it too? oh man....

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:04 AM

neigh you shouldnt

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:04 AM

GODDAMMIT LUCY!

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:04 AM

Hot fudge sundae with Fluff...life doesn't get any better:)

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:04 AM

what,Mano? :-)

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:05 AM

No horses were harmed in the making of this Mano :)

Johnathonfall thethirdSep 25, 2013, 1:05 AM

Excuse me and thanks for the invite. Much of my family in America (if not all) haven't even heard of RT news.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:05 AM

There is exactly zero place in politics for puns.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:05 AM

Authoritarian vs libertarian was always more accurate, to me, than left/right.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:05 AM

Barely any room in comedy for them.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:05 AM★ Spotlighted

theres no place in politics for politicians.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:05 AM

Well, we just got started, Seth. ;cD

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:06 AM★ Spotlighted

Let's just get naked and freaky!

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:06 AM

I love it when people complain that politicians are playing politics...yeah that's all they know

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:06 AM

I'm already there, David. Already there.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:06 AM

good call,David!! i'm game

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:07 AM

JB,"i want" never got....

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:07 AM

David you just cut right to the chase

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:07 AM

yeah david,seth and the others...theres a lady in the room...

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:07 AM

1. Typing classes

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:08 AM

2. Free spel check.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:08 AM

3. Profit.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:08 AM

Let us know where she is Lucy...just kidding

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:08 AM

ha!! i was just looking for her too!

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:09 AM

How much regulation are we talking about?

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:09 AM

Jb,for that to happen you need to get rid of TPP. that will destroy what fragile economy you guys have

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:09 AM

What's tpp?

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:10 AM

trans pacific partnership

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:10 AM

or NAFTA on steroids

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:10 AM

No doubt, NAFTA was definitely shafta for a lot of American workers

Johnathonfall thethirdSep 25, 2013, 1:10 AM

spooky bastards tired of their shit

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:11 AM

Tariffs and protectionism increases monopoly power.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:11 AM

http://www.flushthetpp.org/ - there ya go David

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:11 AM

Just wondering Amy how you could've a view so counter to your party and boss, Glenn Beck

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:11 AM

wash your mouth out now Seth

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:11 AM

Too much Fluff in it Lucy?

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:12 AM

WAY too much fluff

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:13 AM★ Spotlighted

money out of politics - is a must.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:13 AM

both here and in the US

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:13 AM

And a return to the gold standard? How Ayn Randian of you, jB!

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:13 AM

England has nothing compared to the US. Here politicians are literally for $ale!

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:14 AM

money is just a piece of paper,an IOU. it dont mean jack...

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:14 AM

I'm pretty sure he's referring more to what JFK did back in his Presidency.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:14 AM

Seth,oh how wrong you are lol

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:14 AM

When we were still on the gold standard.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:14 AM

the US is having a major influence on that area

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:14 AM

Pretty much everything is for $ale here in America. It's sad and it's destroying us.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:14 AM

Gold standard was still around while the Fed existed. Nixon didn't take us off until the 70's

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:15 AM★ Spotlighted

It may be getting worse but thanks to Citizens United, any pretense of Democracy was thrown out the window

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:15 AM

It may be getting worse in England that is

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:15 AM

I know - but generally speaking the abolition of the fed goes hand in hand with a restoration of the good standard.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:15 AM

the dollar bill is an iou for some gold - or it used to be. when the gold runs out,you is up poop creek without a paddle

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:16 AM★ Spotlighted

Now the dollar is an IOU for nothing.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:16 AM

Gravity can't last?

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:16 AM

Now it's just a huge printing press to add to our Chinese Visa card

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:16 AM★ Spotlighted

exactly David!

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:16 AM

Wait does anyone *NOT* believe in gravity here?

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:17 AM

watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:17 AM

Man, Amy, he's got you fooled...

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:17 AM

even if you dont believe what is being said in that video,its dam interesting

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:18 AM

Failure is a feature of capitalism but when you've five banks that control 50% of the economy, a failure means economic collapse, Great Depression style

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:18 AM

Civil disagreement is the bedrock of democracy.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:18 AM

Didn't work in the 1920's and doesn't work today

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:18 AM

ooo tax havens = a place where the rich 1% can go roll in all their lovely money

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:19 AM★ Spotlighted

Wait so is she saying that what goes up must come down? This conversation is difficult enough to follow as I don't know much about the stock market or how Wall Street works. We get into physics and I'm out.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:19 AM

They are the bad guys in every Ayn Rand novel.

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:19 AM

Farm subsidies are definitely one of the causes of poor eating and bad food choices in America.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:19 AM

It's said the average American family spends $6,000 for corporate subsidies, AKA corporate welfare. And certainly one party is more prone to this

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:20 AM

hell yeah its corrupt. like the government that gives it out. they give it out with one hand then take it all back with the other

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:21 AM

the banks are getting cash? then how about that trickling down to the 99%? mmm doubt that will happen any time soon

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:21 AM

oOo. ty.

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:22 AM

Not only the left. The right wants to have corporate welfare in support of its goals too.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:22 AM

Of course they do. Both wrong.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:22 AM★ Spotlighted

Think not Amy...remember the GOP doled out nearly $150 billion in "farm aid" to some of the richest corporations in America while cutting food stamps for the poorest Americans

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:22 AM

I realize the premise for this debate is Left/Right but they're all just thugs. There is absolutely no difference between the parties.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:22 AM★ Spotlighted

EVERY loan is a "taxpayer backed loan." The only difference is how many steps there is between Congress and the borrower.

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:23 AM

I agree, Mano Dogs. Neither side is right.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:23 AM★ Spotlighted

I think I love her.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:23 AM

congress is bought by the banks. they control what happens to the money.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:23 AM

There are definitely differences Mano. We do have a terrible system and that adds to the problem on both sides. But there are incredible differences

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:24 AM

and the banks are controlled by the top 1%.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:24 AM

There may be amongst voters but that's an illusion to keep you preoccupied. Once the party people get into position, they do what their corporate masters tell them to.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:24 AM

The internet didn't become theINTERNET until private companies got involved.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:25 AM

HAHAHAHAHA! Wow, sassy.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:25 AM

I agree Jordan, both sides like corporate welfare to some degree, however it's definitely doled out more on the right, and pretty hypocritical for a party that claims to earn their own way and pick themselves up by their bootstraps!

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:25 AM

Jordan is a classy guy. #truefact

Robin BakaySep 25, 2013, 1:26 AM

Money IS politics, don't you think?

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:26 AM

Once again, I love her. Reduce the ability of the government to pick winners and losers and you go a long way.

Robin BakaySep 25, 2013, 1:27 AM

Democracy is a code word for taking resources from other countries.

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:27 AM★ Spotlighted

When we act ideologically there are often unintended consequences. When we act to affect consequences it screws with ideology. Finding a balance that is practical, in everyone's best interest and politically expedient is almost impossible.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:27 AM

No, that's socialism.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:27 AM

I actually agree with you, Seth, but want to reiterate that both parties are sell-outs, period. Both parties will always do whatever makes them and their largest contributors the most money.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:27 AM

As far as research goes, remember we're on the Internet, the greatest growth engine of business in this country and it happened because of Uncle Sam. And let's not forget all the drugs developed by govt grants, NASA, etc.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:28 AM

That's just a recipe for keeping the current people in power.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:28 AM

I see where you're going with that, Robin, and agree to some extent but that's not what actual Democracy is. We do not live in an actual Democracy.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:28 AM

rigging the system? you mean like Romney rigging the elections....?

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:29 AM

Mano there is some truth to that, but one party instituted Citizens United, AKA unlimited bankrolling of politicians, and only one party is for publicly-funded elections

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:29 AM

Who's gonna write the guidelines for public financing? The current guard.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:29 AM

Now I'm with you there 100%, Seth!

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:29 AM

Yes.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:29 AM★ Spotlighted

Swoon..

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:30 AM

no no no JB!! stop it!! you know thats wrong

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:30 AM

When only a small fraction of the public has all "the power" (money, political control, military/police power) they will take all the rest in the other areas too.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:31 AM

Amy just made my point for me: She literally said, "If I want power, I should be able to find someone to finance that instead of allowing 'free' people the actual ability to choose based on fact, etc."

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:31 AM

It's called Fascism Clinton and we're on our way

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:31 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes, I know, but I'm adding someone to my freebie list?..

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:32 AM

So did RuPaul or whatever thatlittle guy's name is but that's beytond the point. Do you not see the problem inherent to that system and way of thinking?

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:32 AM

Most people think Hitler, Mussolini, Franco when they think Fascism but all it is a hard right-wing philosophy of having a small group take over the govt and kicking down the weaker people in society

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:32 AM

And do not let my tone or choice of words be mistaken for trying to impress my feelings upon you, it's merely passion for the subject.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:33 AM

transparency? yeah good luck with that

Robin BakaySep 25, 2013, 1:33 AM

There's well funded and there's carrying a dog on the roof of your car.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:33 AM

Nits are lice. (Scowling face.)

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:33 AM

of course Romney was well funded - he had his wifes money AND was backed by the Koch Brothers

Robin BakaySep 25, 2013, 1:34 AM

No amount of funding will undo an American dog on a car roof.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:34 AM

Transparency actually IS a great approach to solving the issues with that approach.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:34 AM

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:34 AM

Too many voters are disenfranchised and the rest of use only get to choose between millionaires.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:34 AM

People may say they hate it Amy but I don't see them doing anything about it. And why did the Supreme Court remake Citizens United from a simple case of corporate free speech to an unlimited funding mechanism for billionaires and big business?

Robin BakaySep 25, 2013, 1:35 AM

Isn't that what we have? Above and below the poverty line? It exists, but no one cares.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:35 AM

*shouts and screams at screen*....

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:36 AM

No but we know what you meant. :cD

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:36 AM★ Spotlighted

What incentive is there Amy for a guy working 40 hours a week with no hope of a raise, little job skills, and no way to afford paying for rent

Robin BakaySep 25, 2013, 1:36 AM

I agree, Amy. But who defines hard times?

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:37 AM

I agree completely, the problem NOW being that education in America is incredibly overpriced and there are no jobs, regardless of the amount of education one has.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:37 AM

if you paid a living wage you wouldnt need this safety net. people could actually...wait for it...LIVE!

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:37 AM

Keep the minimum wage artificially low is giving corporate welfare to McDonald's, Walmart, etc. so they can pay unlivable wages and the taxpayer, AKA us, have to make up the difference in food stamps, welfare, etc

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:37 AM★ Spotlighted

There will always be work that must be done but is dead end and without great value. Those that do that work, actually work very hard, but have little to show for it. Those are the people who really need help.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:37 AM

NO to living wage for poor people. There are already too many lazy millionaires.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:38 AM

Liz,thats where the living wage comes in.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:38 AM

But did you CHOOSE not to help him becuse of your assumptions as to his character? (Cuz I think that's REALLY where all these problems start.)

Robin BakaySep 25, 2013, 1:38 AM

Private school. Huh.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:38 AM

im sorry but reply to Seth was dam right condescending!!

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:38 AM

How can he minimum wage be artificially low? By definition, the minimum wage is an artificially higher wage.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:38 AM

How would you get better at locating the reasons Amy when your party is cutting health care, funding for the mentally ill, and welfare how is there money to "get to the bottom" of the cause

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:39 AM★ Spotlighted

ty Jordan, which is largely my point as well.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:40 AM

It is low. Canada $10.75/ hr, Europe $11/hr. and Australia $16/hr. At $7.25/ hr the US is paying third-world wages

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:40 AM

Now that's what I'm saying, Seth: You began by asking HER a question then projected it onto her entire party. That's the problem with L vs R stuff.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:40 AM

trouble is Amy,that was then this is now. its a WAY more harder and more expensive nowadays

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:40 AM

I'm simply asking her since she represents a certain viewpoint, to substantiate it

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:40 AM

you tell her JB

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:40 AM

But it's not artificially low - it's just less artificially high than you want it.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:41 AM

It isn't "artificially" low; it is VERIFIABLY low as fuck.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:41 AM

That's why we left NYC.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:41 AM

Excuse my language; I don't know if "verifiably" is a real word.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:42 AM

Minimum wage is in every modern country, unless you want the US to be like China or India, where people work 16hrs./ day for $1/hr with no benefits and have suicide nets where they work because there lives are so miserable

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:42 AM

I think we need a reexamining of the structure. It's not just money.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:42 AM

I agree with that 1000% and a lot of the issues with the educational system is the Ultra-Left taking all the power away from educator in the name of "fairness" and "equality."

Anyus GrassoSep 25, 2013, 1:42 AM★ Spotlighted

Most people want to move forward. But want if they can't? What if there's no possibility of getting to a better place when they need it most? The "they should get a better job" would work great if there was 0% unemployment, but that's not the case...

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:42 AM★ Spotlighted

But you can pay tuition for YOUR kid to get educated at a private school or you can pay taxes for EVERY kid to be educated at a public school.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:43 AM★ Spotlighted

Actually, I pay both.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:44 AM

Again that comes down to POV, Clinton. What you're saying is: "Would you rather YOUR kids did better than EVERYONE ELSE or prefer the world be a better place by helping EVERYONE succeed." (Kinda, limited words here.)

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:44 AM

you know they are closing a school started by young people in NYC? why? cost too much,or so they say

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:44 AM

equally my arse

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:45 AM★ Spotlighted

i.e., If you made the public educational system better, all of society would improve. AND, if you prefer ONLY YOUR kids be better educated, you're actually going to reach a bottleneck where there's nothing but competition for a very limited number of

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:45 AM

opportunities so you're dooming them to failure anyway.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:46 AM

Lottery systems mean some "win" while the rest lose.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:46 AM

ty. :cD

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:46 AM

yeah usually the rich win whilst those who try lose...big time

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:46 AM

It's the difference between the Carter's sending Amy to a DC public school and the Clinton's and the Obamas sending their kids to Side

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:47 AM

Sit

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:47 AM

Grrr. Sidwell Friends.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:47 AM★ Spotlighted

What amazes me is with all the budget cuts to schools, veterans, healthcare, there is always money for War and Weapons in the good ol' USA

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:47 AM★ Spotlighted

amen Seth

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:48 AM

You're back to bumper stickers, Seth.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:48 AM

Can you extrapolate? What is their failure? I'm sure it's the approach; what are they spending that money on?

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:48 AM★ Spotlighted

We have cut things that help students, like PE, and only feed them well now that we have learned how badly they were being fed. Remember ketchup is a vegetable. Even school lunch is taken over by larger corporations.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:48 AM

Ha, David! Though it's a fair point.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:48 AM

A President couldn't send his kids to public school these days...that is unrealistic in light of the security detail and media attention

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:49 AM

Granted Seth but the point is not.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:49 AM

hssssss @ semantics. ;c)

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:49 AM

During Carter's era there was a lot less media attention and less of a threat to the president's family

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:49 AM

Yeah but he had ugly kids too.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:49 AM

Then spend more money educating the parents, instead of punishing the children.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:50 AM

OK but it can't be argued that WAY too much is being spent on really stupid shit like ensuring "equality" and that peope succeed by lowering the bar.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:50 AM

As far as schools go there is testing not teaching in America. No Child Left Behind has left behind more kids than anything else. It was just a scheme to give away testing contracts for pol. contributors

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:50 AM★ Spotlighted

for the price you pay for war,you can pay ALL teachers full wage for 5 years!!!

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:50 AM

We seldom choose education. When school boards take money from Coke and Pepsi, they do so to help the shortfalls that they have, not because they love Coke.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:50 AM

The entire state of Washington just finished spending like$ x billion changing all the language to be gender non-specific.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:51 AM

So, HE is no longer really stupif; THEY are all pretty stupid.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:51 AM

We are condemning children because we sent their parents to crummy public schools.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:51 AM

Lucy for the Price of the Iraq war alone, every American could've had health insurance for five years

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:51 AM

going to war NEVER achieves anything. taching the future generation does. and no-one wants to invest. only those with little or no moeny

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:52 AM

Time to start Nation Building in the USA. Our infrastructure is like a third-world country.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:52 AM

If you gave parents a living wage, they could afford to come to their kid's school

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:52 AM

how about after school classes? then those "low wage" people wouldnt have to leave ealry

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:52 AM

The problem again though is that while that is fine and good, without changes to policy elsewhere, those same parents won't be able to apply what they learn to actually follow through.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:53 AM

AND have the time and resources to actually apply what they learn, Clinton.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:53 AM

This is shortsighted and makes up fall behind economically. Updating our roads, electric grid and high-speed rail would make us economically competitive.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:53 AM

We don't need transportation to jobs that don't exist.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:54 AM

Like it or not, here's how it breaks down:

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:54 AM

They lowered the failing grade to 46% so they could pass more people.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:55 AM

I agree with you Amy, parents are the biggest predictors of childhood success in school. So not raising the minimum wage so that people can actually afford the basic things in life makes it so the parents can't play an active role in their kids live

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:55 AM

since they're working three jobs just to pay ends meat

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:55 AM

This idea that "everyone's a genius" and all that... it's not true. We're bending over backward for this illusion of equality where none is needed nor even achievable.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:55 AM

Exactly Seth.

Rick RosnerSep 25, 2013, 1:55 AM

My Mother insisted I am a genius. Does that count?

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:56 AM

It does now, Rick. It does.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:56 AM

But wait, why move on? What are your ideas?

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:56 AM

When parents have to take three jobs and still have to go on govt aid just to afford the light bill something is wrong and as you said Amy, they wouldn't have the time to take an active role in their kids education

Rick RosnerSep 25, 2013, 1:56 AM

That's a relief. I can now remain deluded.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:56 AM

"Tone" means a gun in my set.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:56 AM

"Set" mens hood where I'm from.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 1:57 AM

Don't put all the decisions about jobs in the hands of 12 people. Put the decisions in the hands of as many people as possible.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 1:57 AM

bad outcomes? like what? (straps herself in to hear this)

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:57 AM

Exactly!

Liz WilliamsSep 25, 2013, 1:57 AM★ Spotlighted

Civil disagreement is a better method than one ideology smashing the other.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:57 AM

So paying low income workers unlivable wages, and having the taxpayer make up the difference, is just bad policy and hurts us in so many ways. There is an actually an incentive to pay more since it goes a long way. And honestly at $10/hr no one is

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:58 AM

disincentives. $10/hr they're lucky if they can afford rent anywhere.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:59 AM

Those sound like prison rules, Amy.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 1:59 AM★ Spotlighted

I think we're all looking for a better world. Except Seth. I think he eats his pets. ;)

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:59 AM

Remember politicians who are bankrolled by big business having been keeping the min. wage at 1990 levels because they're paid to do so. It's time to get with the tiems

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 1:59 AM

Wow! WAY agreed.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 1:59 AM★ Spotlighted

Got my Golden Retriever sitting right next to me David

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:00 AM★ Spotlighted

hot dog,Seth?

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 2:00 AM

He's only got a few moments! Run, Fido, run!

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 2:00 AM

Wrong country Lucy

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Poor dawg...

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:00 AM

whats country gotta do with it?

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:00 AM

dont you call them hot dogs?

Rick RosnerSep 25, 2013, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Seth, don't forget to floss.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:01 AM

they tried something like that over here, didnt work too well

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:02 AM

Death tax? That's morbid and, again, all of these problems come down to a simple and singular problem.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:02 AM

rim shots,JB? dirty boy!!!

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:03 AM

there aint no thing as freedom.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 2:03 AM

If all the money is in the hands of very few, they will continue to be the only ones with economic freedom.

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 2:03 AM

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose...

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:03 AM

That's the problem right there.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:04 AM★ Spotlighted

BYE AMY, I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:04 AM

if there was real freedom,we wouldnt be in this situation

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:04 AM

BYE JORDAN I LOVE YOU!!!!

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

That's not "freedom," David. That's being poor.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

It means ttyl!!!!

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

Right the NSA is watching you :)

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

Naah, that's Janis Joplin.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

Yeah, no shit Seth. lol

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

Goodnight, NSA!

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

Janis Joplin is dead.

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

People used to say "goodbye" on the phone...

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 2:06 AM

Still?

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:06 AM

everyone say na-night to the lovely NSA and PRISM!!

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 2:06 AM

Don't need to say it...they've already heard our Tawk

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 2:06 AM

No reason to say goodbye to the NSA.

Lucy DyerSep 25, 2013, 2:06 AM

ttfn :-)

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:06 AM

ttfn!

David KaufmanSep 25, 2013, 2:06 AM

Hasta, all.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 2:07 AM

Adios

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:07 AM

There you go.

Clinton FreemanSep 25, 2013, 2:07 AM

Goodnight non-NSA

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:07 AM

Are there any other Tawks happening? Let's solve some more shit.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 2:07 AM

More Tawks now JB?

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:08 AM

There really CAN be "real" freedom but we have to do more than just want it.

Seth HochmanSep 25, 2013, 2:08 AM

Why do I get spell corrected with the word Tawks, while I'm on Tawkers JB? Tech Support please :)

Mano DogsSep 25, 2013, 2:12 AM

So... no other Tawks?

Johnathonfall thethirdJun 24, 2014, 8:12 AM

Sept 2013...hahahaha. So that is the best you can say about the Federal reserve...you can't add to that at all. What are you afraid of?

Johnathonfall thethirdJun 24, 2014, 8:12 AM

miss holmes?