When we're kids, we're told we can grow up to be anything! ...or are we? nWomen only make up 24% of the STEM (science, tech, engineering, math) workforce. If we're more than half the population, why are we so underrepresented?nProfessional astronomer Sarah Tuttle is joining me to discuss why this might be & what we can do about it. Check out AAUW's study on the disparity http://ow.ly/tvNUC & stop by to tell us what you wanted to be when you grew up and thought anything was possible!
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Katie Klabusich · 2:00 AM
Hi, everyone! Thanks for coming to "Reaching The Stars: Girls in Science" with the fantastic Sarah Tuttle!
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Katie Klabusich · 2:00 AM
Real quick, if you’re new to Tawkers, Sarah and I will be chatting on the left. And if you’re signed in (it only takes two minutes to set up a profile!), you can add comments/questions on the right.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:00 AM
Sarah and I can spotlight comments to toss them into our conversation, so be sure to “thumbs-up” anything you want us to respond to. (That also makes it easier for us to see them.) & interrupt anytime w/questions!
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:01 AM
*goes in for the proverbial mic tap* I'm excited to talk about this tonight!
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Katie Klabusich · 2:01 AM
Ha!! When I found out Sarah — who I know from reprojustice/access circles — was an astronomer working on a new, badass project I couldn’t invite her to chat fast enough! (Full disclosure: I’m def a science geek, bio degree & all.)
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Katie Klabusich · 2:01 AM
Women only make up 24% of the STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) workforce. That’s just obnoxiously low. I was sure she’d have some thoughts on why and how we could address the underrepresentation.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:02 AM
So, tonight, Sarah has graciously passed her busy scheduled to share her thoughts so we can solve parity in science! <grin> Thanks so much, Sarah!
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Katie Klabusich · 2:02 AM
**paused
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:02 AM
It has been a big issue, and hopefully we can sort it out tonight.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:02 AM
Listen, no big deal...we're just going to solve a huge problem in an hour.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:02 AM
For folks who aren’t familiar, give them a little primer on what you do at McDonald Observatory in Austin, TX. (For those who want to follow along/find out more later: http://hetdex.org/updates/virus-units-come-together.php )
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:02 AM
Do excuse the truly terrifying high speed mirror. I've never known so much about my nostrils.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:03 AM
But it is a great link to find out how we're making progress on measuring dark energy.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:04 AM
Ha! Yeah, I'm a little obsessed with a phrase from the observatory website: “mysterious dark energy.”
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Katie Klabusich · 2:04 AM
What is mysterious dark energy??
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:05 AM
If only I knew, I'd have a job for life. ;>
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Katie Klabusich · 2:05 AM
Ha!
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:05 AM
As opposed to the every day dark energy... We do get into danger when our copy is written by people who have mixed backgrounds, it turns out.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:06 AM
So I've been poking back through the AAUW report a little bit in preparation for talking to you tonight.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:06 AM
Yeah....in every field. So there isn't like a standard dark energy and a MYSTERIOUS dark energy? (cue the music)
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Katie Klabusich · 2:06 AM
Great!
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:07 AM
Mysterious dark energy is like the sock you lose in the dryer drum. Whereas everyday dark energy is the sock you know you missed the laundry basket with.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:07 AM
(Sarah's talking about The American Association of University Women (@aauw) study from 2010 on why so few women are in STEM fields.)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:07 AM
I'd forgotten both how encouraging and discouraging it is. (the report is here - http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/Why-So-Few-Women-in-Science-Technology-Engineering-and-Mathematics.pdf)
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Katie Klabusich · 2:07 AM
Nicely done on the explanation.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:07 AM
Yeah, I found it to be both myself.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:08 AM
On the one hand, it feels like there are big but easy things. But a lot of it is very systemic problems. Many small issues that end up leading to the much lower representation by the time we all have jobs.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:08 AM
Yeah, I thought the study did a good job of pointing out early education issues, societal issues and higher ed/career field issues.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:09 AM
When you were growing up -- before you knew all this feminist-y parity stuff -- did you always want to go into a science-related field?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:09 AM
Weirdly, yes. I wanted to be an astronomer from the get go. I've dabbled in a lot of other things, but always had an unnatural interest in looking up.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:10 AM
Did you have that desire challenged as you pursued your education/career?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:10 AM
(That being said, one of my best friends is an accidental astronomer. In the sense that.. it really wasn't a *life dream* as such. And she's a great scientist. It really challenged my views on how we find our jobs and passions.)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:11 AM
There were various times when I meandered. It was nothing like a straight path for me.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:11 AM
I first worked in "professional" astronomy when I was 16, and volunteered for a professor at our local university. But I staggered through several university programs. My first college physics professor drew boobs on his stick figures demonstrating m
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:12 AM
sorry, demonstrating mechanics.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:12 AM
WOW
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:12 AM
So I generally ditched his class and went to juggle and hang out on the long at the center of campus.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:12 AM
So there's that.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:12 AM
That obviously went really well for my physics grade. :>
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:13 AM
I spent a few semesters at a program run by Goddard College. Liberal arts focused, non-residential. I did odd jobs and travelled a ton.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:13 AM
<sigh> I was pretty lucky in undergrad -- I had a very welcoming, non-sexist environment. It's actually broken my heart (but not surprised me) that my experience was unusual.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:13 AM
Before I started university I'd had the chance to take part in a summer research program at a telescope facility in Chile. I wanted to get back to that.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:13 AM
Did the sexist bullshit cause second thoughts for what you wanted to do for your ultimate career, or were you just looking for a different path to get there?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:14 AM
It was a mixture of things. If you'd asked me then, I wouldn't have said it was sexism - or not *just* sexism.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:14 AM
Looking back, those things were discouraging. Sometimes they were understandable and funny, but still discouraging.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:15 AM
Before university, I joined a "summer" research program at a telescope facility in chile. It was fantastic. But people always assumed I was someone's kid.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:15 AM
(I was 17 at the time, having finished school a bit early)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:15 AM
And Chile was still a fairly sexist place. There were a very small # of female scientists.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:15 AM
So you were a smart. ;)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:15 AM
As my mother always said - smart enough, but pretty persistent.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:16 AM
**smartie (thanks, autocorrect)
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Katie Klabusich · 2:16 AM
You'd have to be, it seems, to pursue a STEM field.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:16 AM
The irony is.. I think the persistence is the key, at this point.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:17 AM
I know it sounds weird, but I'll be so excited on the day when we can have mediocre women scientists.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:17 AM
YES. Mediocre women everywhere....It sounds like your experience needing to be persistent is relatively typical of women in collegiate science programs.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:18 AM
The AAUW study found girls & boys take STEM related classes & pursue those majors as 1st-year college students — which totally surprised me. I assumed the disparity started earlier.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:18 AM
I think that we have girls excited about science. I think we've gotten a lot better about "prepping" the pipeline, as it were
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Katie Klabusich · 2:18 AM
**take them at the same rate/percentages (sorry, my internet is unexpectedly spotty)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:18 AM
(really quickly, the idea of pipeline is problematic for a lot of reasons, but I'm going to use it here because its the best I have for now.)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:19 AM
That's right. We *are* in many ways doing better.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:20 AM
But tenured/tenure track faculty positions still are an old white guy club, most of the time.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:20 AM
That's who teaches. That's who hires. That's who advises.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:20 AM
So it isn't something we're saying or implicitly implying with girls when they're growing up?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:21 AM
It depends what you mean. To some extent, yes.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:21 AM
My niece just turned two and it seems like we still have pink vs blue and girl vs boy activities. I assumed that would be a factor in what we grew up to pursue.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:21 AM
We hear messages throughout our whole growing up, and those do have an effect on how we react when confronted with the implicit and explicit bias that still abounds.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:22 AM
(Interestingly, the pink vs. blue has gotten SO MUCH worse lately. In my unscientific cranky parent opinion.)
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Katie Klabusich · 2:22 AM
Word.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:22 AM
With you.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:22 AM
As a parent, how do you address the process of your kids deciding what they want to do or be when they get older? It’s a pretty common question for kids to hear, even if their parents aren’t asking/pressuring.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:22 AM
So the report demonstrates that there are differences - boys overestimate their abilities, girls underestimate.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:23 AM
With my own kids (my son is 6, my daughter is 2mo) - We try to let them find their own way, and offer balance from what they are hearing outside.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:23 AM
I thought that was interesting too. We've prepped our boys to think they're GREAT at things and our girls to think they aren't good enough, even if they're just as good as the boys at something.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:23 AM
As GI Joe used to say - Knowing is half the battle ;>
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Katie Klabusich · 2:23 AM
That has to be hard as a parent -- combatting what they're hearing outside. (Maybe not with the 2 mo....lol)
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Katie Klabusich · 2:23 AM
HA! Awesome.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:23 AM
I think as women moving through these biased structures, we can teach ourselves to respond differently.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:23 AM
(and teach our kids too)
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Katie Klabusich · 2:24 AM
Interesting.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:24 AM
When our daughters come home and say "I'm bad at X" we can help them address the root of that.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:24 AM
And really, it is something I have to moderate for myself too. It is easy to say "Oh, this is hard for me, I'm bad at it."
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:24 AM
But then I definitely watch male colleagues bluster on ahead totally unimpeded by the fact that they haven't the foggiest clue what they're talking about.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:24 AM
So what they hear their parents and older family members saying -- that seems like a way all of us (even those of us without kids) can get better at to help address the problem.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:25 AM
We also suffer the fact that everyone (men and women alike) perceive the same actions from men and women differently.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:25 AM
When I hear (professionally, or elsewhere) people bandying about the old tired stereotypes, I try to call them out (in a gentle, educational sort of way)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:26 AM
I have several undergraduates in my lab (two men and two women, it turns out) - and when we talk about work together I try to help them be mindful
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:26 AM
Language *matters*, for all of us.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:26 AM
But I think the biggest issues at this point really are system wide problems.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:26 AM
How did you end up with an equal representation?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:27 AM
And the struggle here is - we need to amass enough women that it isn't one person against the machine.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:27 AM
In lab? Pure chance.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:27 AM
I have an advantage, because I'm (sort of) young, I give a lot of talks to the public, and undergrads. So often people like me find me.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:27 AM
System-wide seems to happen around the collegiate level.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:27 AM
★ Spotlighted from Stephanie Hunt
“When I taught, I often found that families were more indulgent with boys egos. Thinking you're infalliable is a big deal”
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:28 AM
I think Stephanie makes a good point - Both at the family level, and at the school level, people react differently to boys and girls.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:28 AM
Truth.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:28 AM
You posted a piece by Frances Hocutt on twitter today — http://modelviewculture.com/pieces/i-didn-t-want-to-lean-out — "I Didn’t Want To Lean Out: Why I Left, How I Left, and What It Would Have Taken to Keep Me in STEM.”
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Katie Klabusich · 2:28 AM
That was a really good, but hard read for me. Tell us why her story resonated with you.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:29 AM
I think for many of us, we hit junctions when we consider moving out of science.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:30 AM
A lot of us come to it as a passion. And at some point, you get tired. We're grown ups. We pay bills, we have families. And choosing science as a profession ends up meaning - moving a lot, low pay, poor support...
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Katie Klabusich · 2:30 AM
Does that affect women in those jobs more than men?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:30 AM
near the end of my PhD a friend observed that EVERYONE she knew that finished had either a physical or mental break near or after the end of the PhD.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:30 AM
Everyone. (Her PhD was from Harvard, in astrophysics)
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Katie Klabusich · 2:30 AM
**jobs or programs
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:31 AM
I think for women the effects are increased because of the microagressions that pile on to the normal difficulties of graduate school.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:31 AM
The further you go, the more it happens. Most departments have at least one person you learn you should avoid, if you're a woman.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:32 AM
★ Spotlighted from Stephanie Hunt
“I had a father whose mother was a feminist, and unlike too many fathers I've seen, was never disappointed in having a daughter.”
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Katie Klabusich · 2:32 AM
★ Spotlighted from Stephanie Hunt
“Far too many girls lack the cushion of confidence to tackle "hard subjects"”
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Katie Klabusich · 2:32 AM
That's awful.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:32 AM
Even overt sexual harrassment is often bounced around universities who are more worried with avoiding getting sued than supporting students.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:32 AM
You end up directing your study based on what path is "safe."
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:33 AM
And I think we're .. brainwashed? Maybe that isn't quite the right word. But even as a grad student, I didn't feel like I would talk about issues in terms of sexism.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:33 AM
There is definitely a stigma to women who speak out about experiencing things differently because of gender
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:34 AM
I didn't get involved with "Women in Science" because I just wanted to be ... a scientist.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:34 AM
Yeah. You're expected to be tough enough to fit in.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:34 AM
You picked a man's subject/study/direction/career -- so deal with it.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:34 AM
That's right. If you just act like the boys it'll be fine.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:34 AM
I could quote the study, but I'm more interested in how you think we can combat that barrier.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:35 AM
The further I get, the more I see how problematic that is. And now I have some tiny about of power to toss around, I'm working on addressing it.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:35 AM
(Also, b/c acting like the boys doesn't actually help you.)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:35 AM
Some of it is just for us, as we get further, to reach down and support the women below us.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:35 AM
YES! More badass feminists in power! <cheering>
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:35 AM
Even *validating experience* is often missing.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:36 AM
Having male allies helps here too. If I can shoot a look to a male colleague who will tag team raising the flag on sexism in meetings, its a huge help.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:36 AM
Making space for women at every step to find support if they want it is necessary.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:36 AM
How do we find male allies in male dominated fields? It would seem to be just as risky for them to step out in support of a female colleague as for a woman to speak up.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:36 AM
And not everyone wants it - That's fine too. Things chnage throughout your career.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:36 AM
★ Spotlighted from Stephanie Hunt
“Yeah, grew up with 4 who said their dads actually said how sad they were that they were not born boys. And a friend' s husband blew up when their daughter was born. He also thinks college is wasted on girls.”
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Katie Klabusich · 2:37 AM
Bizarre that those overt comments are still made, right?? You;d think we'd be in full-on micro aggression land nowadays.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:37 AM
Unfortunately, there is definitely still explicit bias.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:37 AM
I've still heard comments about facility candidates based on how they look, etc.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:38 AM
Sorry, Faculty.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:38 AM
No, I think women run the distinct danger of becoming "That Woman". The one who is the pushy feminist, who sits on all the committees to talk about women in science, the one who you call on to talk about family leave.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:39 AM
When a man speaks up about family leave, or takes on a committee assignment, or calls out a colleague for saying something inappropriate - it tends to have less long term impact
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Katie Klabusich · 2:39 AM
So, you have to pick between getting the work done that you pursued the career for in the first place OR trying to change the environment for the women who will hopefully come after you.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:39 AM
People might be taken aback, but he doesn't become "That guy"
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:40 AM
It is definitely challenging. I know many people who feel torn - if you're the only woman in a dept, and people want "diverse" committees - who do they come to?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:40 AM
and how do you say no, as you march towards tenure?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:40 AM
You can, but again - it is hard, and it is different from our male colleagues.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:40 AM
Yeah. There's no danger ever of being "that guy" unless it's "that guy who brings the doughnuts" or "that guy who buys drinks after work."
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:40 AM
And look - People are going to leave. Science is not all gumballs and fairy dust.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:41 AM
No fairy dust in dark matter??
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:41 AM
But when a man leaves, it is his choice. Maybe it is sometimes surprising, but it is less of a community conversation.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:41 AM
Because women are so thin on the ground - there is often this feeling of LETTING DOWN THE SIDE
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:41 AM
That article I retweeted earlier hits on that.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:41 AM
Interesting. yeah, I heard that in Hocutt's piece. Lots of condemnation and lack of support when she chose to leave.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:41 AM
She heard whispers of: "Diversity is good. This woman is adding to diversity in STEM. Her leaving decreases diversity. Therefore, she is bad to leave."
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:42 AM
We just don't have a critical mass in departments. And we use really unsupportive language - "Leaving", "quitting", "giving up"
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Katie Klabusich · 2:42 AM
She heard overtly: "You have to take the bad with the good." (Implied: gender bias is a normal and survivable situation, not worth complaining about.)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:42 AM
Most people I know who've left have moved to something (often science related) that makes them happy.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:42 AM
That's right. There is lots of "Oh, old guys, what do you do."
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:42 AM
But the data shows you - we are all biased.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:43 AM
So what do we do to make STEM fields more welcoming, a place where women WANT to stay, not endure?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:43 AM
I think there are the.. low level things. Really, we should channel AA.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:43 AM
First, you have to admit there is a problem.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:43 AM
Right now I don't feel like that's a given in many departments.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:43 AM
Let alone at individual universities.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:44 AM
If we had large scale policies in place - that called out discrimination and consequences for overt bias, and those policies were seriously enforced? Even that would be a start.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:44 AM
Then addressing where implicit bias hits us.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:44 AM
This often comes down to how admissions happen, at the graduate level.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:45 AM
There's ongoing conversation about what matters, and how you get good students.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:45 AM
Would better recruiting be a start?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:45 AM
Most current methods yield a consistent group of young men.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:45 AM
It is a mix - we definitely get more women when we reach out to our colleagues to get them.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:45 AM
Actively working to recruit female candidates? Or does that turn them into perceived tokens by department heads and profs?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:46 AM
But again - we also tend to have higher expectations for women. We tolerate more mediocrity in the men we admit.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:46 AM
Lots of universities compete for a very small number of "gold standard" women.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:46 AM
And then complain there are none left.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:47 AM
I always find the token thing interesting. I think we have to be careful no one *feels* like a token. But I think its been demonstrated that *all* our methods are pretty biased.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:47 AM
We can also talk big dreams - what if we took names off of applications and professional publications? Or at least first names.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:47 AM
If I was S. Tuttle and you were K. Klabusich, no one would know what was in our pants!
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Katie Klabusich · 2:47 AM
Or just went first initial.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:47 AM
Exactly.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:48 AM
But it turns out this only does so much - Recommendation letters (still used a lot) tend to be extremely different when written for men or women.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:48 AM
Getting our colleagues to recognize and work on addressing their own implicit bias is key
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:48 AM
Have you taken the harvard implicit bias test?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:48 AM
It is here, for anyone who is reading. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:49 AM
★ Spotlighted from Stephanie Hunt
“That tokenism is still everywhere. People just pretend it isn't.”
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:49 AM
But I think saying "tokenism" is just a way to stop us from addressing systemic problems.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:49 AM
The system is wildly skewed. You have to address that skewing.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:49 AM
Every time we change it, people cry unfair. Yes, well.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:50 AM
Yeah. I wasn't implying that the women would be tokens -- just that they could be seen that way by professors.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:50 AM
No, absolutely. It is an issue. We've talked about it for recruiting grad students. You have to be careful.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:50 AM
It's part of the "men belong here" & "women have to earn their way in" thing. >_<
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:50 AM
You don't want to, in the middle of a visit, say "All the girls, you go in room X and we'll talk about LADY THINGS."
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:51 AM
It makes it worse than 6th grade sex ed.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:51 AM
Blech.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:51 AM
The AAUW study suggested we create clear criteria for success and transparency, aka removing bias from competency/performance evaluations. Is that doable?
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:52 AM
And I think you have to be mindful of how it looks. Plenty of people feel like "We're *past* sexism, it doesn't affect me."
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:52 AM
I think it is ... an important goal.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:52 AM
And I think tools are coming up that can help us.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:52 AM
One of the issues I see, that I"m only just learning about, is the lack of consistency in things like evaluation.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:52 AM
A lot of stuff at universities happens in a very ad hoc manner.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:53 AM
So one year, you might convince people - Implicit bias is a problem, here is the rubric we should use and distribute, etc.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:53 AM
But next year? You have a whole new batch to convince. It takes a long time to propagate long term change.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:54 AM
So consistency in an inconsistent environment; obviously you're going to have designed turnover because students move on.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:54 AM
This is a huge problem with universities address all kinds of issues. (sexual assault comes to mind)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:54 AM
I mean, graduate admissions is an easy example - It varies from institution to institution, often involves volunteers. It is very time intensive. You might have a lot of input from the whole faculty, it might just be two or three people.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:55 AM
And at most institutions, there aren't rewards for getting it right.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:55 AM
Yowsah.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:55 AM
If universities said - "You have 5 years, and you need to have (on average) equal gender representation" - People would go BATSHIT
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Katie Klabusich · 2:55 AM
Once the seats are filled, there just isn't a mechanism in place to see if the admissions process is working.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:56 AM
Pick your poison - people complaining that it "violates the meritocracy", departments complaining that they need autonomy to do their jobs and MAKE SCIENCE
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:57 AM
The push back about how you are RUINING IT for the smart boys that will be left working at starbucks.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:57 AM
Again - you have to sit down, look at the data, and believe there is a problem. THEN you have to believe it matters.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:57 AM
I think that buy in, for all the lip service, doesn't really exist as an institutional priority in many places.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:58 AM
THAT BEING SAID (to get to a slightly more cheerful note ;>)
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:58 AM
It is, slowly, getting better.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:58 AM
What else do we need? :P
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Katie Klabusich · 2:58 AM
UGH. My internet blipped. What I said was...
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:58 AM
I have a network, including many women, who I work with and think are fantastic.
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Sarah Tuttle · 2:59 AM
We have to fight it on an individual and institutional level. Some days, you just don't have the energy for the institutional bullshit. But you can fight for your peers, or for your group.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:59 AM
We have a few minutes left. We need -- better/more mentorship (like you're saying, a network), less biased evaluation/admission and a more welcoming collegiate environment for female candidates.
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Katie Klabusich · 2:59 AM
Good call -- that goes for everyone.
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:00 AM
We chip away. Every time someone stands up and says "But.. is this really a problem?" a big group of us stand up and say YES IT IS.
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:00 AM
We recognize that science isn't a gang.
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Katie Klabusich · 3:00 AM
So, talking about it. And not accepting the status quo.
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:00 AM
My job now as a mentor is to help people get to their next best place.
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:00 AM
If your next best place isn't academia? Great. Let me help you figure that out.
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Katie Klabusich · 3:00 AM
Awesome -- we just need a few thousand of you!
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:01 AM
For better or worse, that's what we've got.
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:01 AM
I don't think the academy wakes up one day and has left the middle ages in one fell swoop
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Katie Klabusich · 3:01 AM
Sarah, thank you so much. Everyone seemed to be reading and absorbing, but I know if they have questions later, you're super responsive -- and a GREAT follow -- on twitter.
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Katie Klabusich · 3:01 AM
So everyone should go find you at @niais!
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Katie Klabusich · 3:01 AM
(Ugh...well, we can try and drag them into at least the 20th century...)
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:02 AM
I definitely tweet about a wide variety of things.. and abortion only comes up on days ending in Y.
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:02 AM
I think its always a balance between revolution and self care.
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Katie Klabusich · 3:02 AM
ha! I came from a NYAAF event -- so I joked that even when I'm not talking about abortion I'm talking with someone I know b/c of repro justice. ;)
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:02 AM
Eventually, we get the critical mass.
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Katie Klabusich · 3:02 AM
Thanks again so much and hopefully you'll come back and chat more science!
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Sarah Tuttle · 3:02 AM
Anytime. Thanks!