Maggie Rowe

Host

Scientology and Zen

Dec 11, 2013·134 visitors

Conrad Romo

Cohost

Stage· 166 messages

Dec 11, 2013

A talk with with Conrad Romo, a former Scientologist for 14 years and a current Zen practitioner also for 14 years. Find out the similarities and differences between Zen Buddhism and Scientology: why Scientologists don't blink and Zen Buddhists do, how it feels to go clear, and what an "end of an endless drug rundown rundown" is (and why it costs $1500 dollars.)

Conrad Romo · 2:01 AM

welcome squirrerls boddisatvas and wogs

Conrad Romo · 2:03 AM

I am not an authority on Zen or Scientology but I was in the cult for 14 years and have now been practicing Zen for 14 so that counts for something

Maggie Rowe · 2:04 AM

Conrad!!

Maggie Rowe · 2:04 AM

Oh, I had a problem logging on - question - what is a squirrel?

Conrad Romo · 2:04 AM

Maggie

Conrad Romo · 2:05 AM

someone who alters the tech of the cult

Maggie Rowe · 2:05 AM

In zen, it's not a bad thing to alter the tech, right?

Maggie Rowe · 2:05 AM

that's part of the process right? A dialogue?

Conrad Romo · 2:06 AM

right, it's been interpreted and reinterpreted many times

Maggie Rowe · 2:06 AM

An oral tradition that evolves?

Maggie Rowe · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Plus I heard that Zen is much less expensive…”

Conrad Romo · 2:06 AM

yeah on both counts

Maggie Rowe · 2:07 AM

Yeah, what would you say is the monetary difference?

Maggie Rowe · 2:07 AM

Can you be a poor scientologist?

Conrad Romo · 2:07 AM

yeah but you wont go up the bridge and that is what its all about

Maggie Rowe · 2:07 AM

Zen centers don't seem to be pulling in the cash

Conrad Romo · 2:08 AM

they would say that Scio is for the able to become more able but if you don't have the dough to afford the tech to freedom then too bad

Maggie Rowe · 2:09 AM

It seems to praise the lucky and punish the unfortunate

Conrad Romo · 2:09 AM

yeah they don't have a lot of compassion

Maggie Rowe · 2:10 AM

It seems like zen is about accepting what you have and scientology about trying to get more

Maggie Rowe · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“My dog's name is Bodhi - he turned 6 months today, so feel free to meditate on that.”

Maggie Rowe · 2:10 AM

That's important Blake

Maggie Rowe · 2:10 AM

Conrad, what would you say Scientology promises? as opposed to zen?

Conrad Romo · 2:11 AM

that more thing can be a bit of a trap

Maggie Rowe · 2:11 AM

Seems like scientology and other prosperity theologies try to bend life to your ego

Conrad Romo · 2:12 AM

scio promises ultimate freedom and great power and zen nothing but I'll take nothing

Maggie Rowe · 2:12 AM

Seems like religion should be about "not getting what you want"

Maggie Rowe · 2:12 AM

I like the promise of nothing. Less disillusionment.

Conrad Romo · 2:12 AM

I dunno. Scio is a biz not a religion

Maggie Rowe · 2:13 AM

Conrad, is there a meditation tradition in scientology?

Conrad Romo · 2:13 AM

eyes closed was OT TROnthen eyes open.

Maggie Rowe · 2:13 AM

You had told me about the OT TRO - I love these terms

Conrad Romo · 2:14 AM

Training Stress: Have student and coach sit facing each other, neither making any conversation or effort to be interesting. Have them sit and look at each other and say and do nothing for some hours. Student must not speak, fidget, giggle or be embar

Maggie Rowe · 2:14 AM

what happens if you do any of these things?

Conrad Romo · 2:15 AM

This was done with another student, one would act as the coach, and as the coach if your partner blinked you would say, " flunk, you blinked. Start" And the TRO would resume. Or " Flunk, you twitched. Start." Or " Flunk, you yawned!" Start!"

Maggie Rowe · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“freedom from the human condition -- which sounds odd for a religion that purports to not practice 'disconnecting'”

Maggie Rowe · 2:16 AM

Seems like there's not so much "flunking" in zen

Conrad Romo · 2:16 AM

In the early 70's we were to do this and not blink for 2 hours nIn zazen/meditation, we just sit. nIn the early 70's we were to do this and not blink for 2 hours nIn zazen/meditation, we just sit. nnIn the early 70's we were to do this and not blink

Maggie Rowe · 2:16 AM

What's with the not blinking?

Maggie Rowe · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“LMAO - I flunked out of Zen!”

Conrad Romo · 2:17 AM

I was just following orders

Maggie Rowe · 2:17 AM

But do you not blink so you don't disconnect? Seems bad for your eyes

Maggie Rowe · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“is that possible? did you fall off your motorcycle?”

Conrad Romo · 2:17 AM

it's ok to blink in zen

Maggie Rowe · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Is anyone else thinking of that scene in A Clockwork Orange?”

Conrad Romo · 2:18 AM

a couple times

Maggie Rowe · 2:18 AM

Is there a God figure in scientology?

Conrad Romo · 2:18 AM

I didn't see it at the time but years later yes

Maggie Rowe · 2:19 AM

Someone you worship?

Conrad Romo · 2:19 AM

God/8th dynamic as symbolized as sideways 8 In Scientology, I don't recall that God was ever spoken of. Scientologists would rather point to Hubbard as Source and the "tech" the word of God and themselves as all powerful gods once they have worked t

Maggie Rowe · 2:19 AM

Pretty great promise - you can be God -

Maggie Rowe · 2:20 AM

They also think you get powers right? To control universe?

Maggie Rowe · 2:20 AM

Is it different than Buddhist "siddhis?"

Conrad Romo · 2:20 AM

An OT has no reactive mind and is cause over mater energy space time and thought and is completely free. In Buddhism I don't hear about God but rather an interdepence an interconnectedness a big mind and a little mind.

Maggie Rowe · 2:21 AM

how do you go about clearing a reactive mind?

Conrad Romo · 2:21 AM

this is what is sold in the cult but its not true

Conrad Romo · 2:22 AM

the auditing/thearapy and many hours of it

Maggie Rowe · 2:22 AM

as an auditor, what are you trying to do? Do you think you helped anyone during your auditing sessions?

Maggie Rowe · 2:23 AM

I'm not accusing you conrad - I'd love to be audited sometime

Maggie Rowe · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“im thinking of that scene in scienfeld, where george isnt recruited by the sunshine carpet cleaners”

Conrad Romo · 2:23 AM

I was a low lever Dianetics auditor and at the time I thought there was something to it but upon reflection don't think so

Maggie Rowe · 2:24 AM

What does it mean to "go clear?"

Maggie Rowe · 2:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from JIm Vallely

“I was going to ask the "all clear" question!”

Maggie Rowe · 2:25 AM

Jim is my husband. I would like him to go all clear.

Conrad Romo · 2:25 AM

here is the definition Clear is a condition in which a person is free of unwanted influences of past memories, unwanted emotions or painful traumas which are not present in real time. Becoming Clear strengthens a person's native individuality and cr

Maggie Rowe · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from JIm Vallely

“Conrad, do you think people from Scientology are looking at this now, monitoring you?”

Maggie Rowe · 2:25 AM

Don't make Conrad paranoid

Maggie Rowe · 2:25 AM

We're trying to let go of anxiety at the zen center

Conrad Romo · 2:25 AM

I'm a small fish

Maggie Rowe · 2:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“so "Clear" is the same thing as "Zen" only it costs a fortune.”

Maggie Rowe · 2:26 AM

What's the difference between going clear and enlightenment? is it the same goal with different methods?

Maggie Rowe · 2:26 AM

oh and the cost

Conrad Romo · 2:27 AM

The first time I ever heard of a clear, was in that Leonard Cohen song,n “Famous Blue Raincoat.” At that time I was still a wog, a term that Scientologists use to refer to non-Scientologists. I had no idea what Leonard C meant when he sang;

Maggie Rowe · 2:27 AM

that's the first time I heard of it!!

Maggie Rowe · 2:27 AM

He's so plaintive in that song

Maggie Rowe · 2:27 AM

it made me want to go clear

Conrad Romo · 2:28 AM

I became clear #9408. As a point of reference William Burroughs in the ‘60s became clear # 1163. I haven’t read his book, “Naked Scientology”,

Maggie Rowe · 2:28 AM

Whoa, Conrad you have a number? Fierce!

Maggie Rowe · 2:28 AM

Conrad, will you tell everyone about your event coming up at the Cinefamily?

Conrad Romo · 2:28 AM

I should say that I was given the clear number but didn't feel like one

Maggie Rowe · 2:29 AM

What did you feel like when you went clear?

Maggie Rowe · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“What impact does Paul Haggis and other high profile defections have on the community?”

Conrad Romo · 2:30 AM

well it's up in the air still but we are shooting for an auditing demo on stage for the sat telethon

Conrad Romo · 2:30 AM

I think Haggis made a big difference.

Maggie Rowe · 2:30 AM

What is an SP? And is it better or worse than being in a "state of treason?"

Maggie Rowe · 2:30 AM

Is Haggis an SP?

Conrad Romo · 2:31 AM

I venture to guess there will be some major blows that the cult will deal with in the next year

Conrad Romo · 2:31 AM

the cult would probably label him one but I don't know if he actually was declared or not

Maggie Rowe · 2:31 AM

Scientology seems to be into permanence. Do you think they will be have permanence?

Conrad Romo · 2:32 AM

an sp is a suppressive person.

Maggie Rowe · 2:32 AM

Are you an SP?

Maggie Rowe · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Who has it worse? Haggis or Rushdie? And what is the word for "jihad" in Scientology?”

Conrad Romo · 2:33 AM

I was told I was and a few old friends disconnected but I'm actually in an unfavorable status so not so bad

Maggie Rowe · 2:34 AM

Is the equivalent for "jihad" - "treason consequences?"

Conrad Romo · 2:35 AM

fair game meaning that one is open to just about anything bad that could be done to an ex that is on the outs

Maggie Rowe · 2:35 AM

Is there a code of ethics for Scientologists?

Maggie Rowe · 2:35 AM

what would you say is the number one commandment?

Conrad Romo · 2:35 AM

they have an MAA a master of arms and an ethics book and

Maggie Rowe · 2:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“like operation freakout”

Conrad Romo · 2:36 AM

thou shalt worship LRH

Maggie Rowe · 2:36 AM

There's blasphemy everywhere

Maggie Rowe · 2:36 AM

What is a floating needle?

Conrad Romo · 2:37 AM

a needle reaction that indicates that things are peachy

Conrad Romo · 2:38 AM

a couple things that came to mindnsea org billion year contract to clear the planet " Their motto is "we come back"n Boddisatva vow to work for the liberation (nirvana) of all sentient beings Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them

Maggie Rowe · 2:38 AM

A heavy needle means things suck - or you're trapped in thetans?

Maggie Rowe · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“@John is that from Fight Club? Or was that Project Mayhem? (I have to watch that movie again!)”

Conrad Romo · 2:39 AM

there were all kinds of needle reactions, rock slams were bad

Maggie Rowe · 2:39 AM

Why do Scientologists seem so happy when their belief system is so strange?

Conrad Romo · 2:39 AM

a red tag wasn't good either

Maggie Rowe · 2:39 AM

What's a rock slam?

Maggie Rowe · 2:40 AM

Or a red tag? All good band names

Maggie Rowe · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“well... im sure some likenesses can be drawn”

Conrad Romo · 2:40 AM

you can learn more about their cult than they can they are in the Truman show

Maggie Rowe · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Red Tag rocks! Their new album is killer!”

Conrad Romo · 2:41 AM

can't define the rockslam easily but it ain't good

Maggie Rowe · 2:41 AM

Just cuz I love the name so much, Conrad, can you tell us what the "end of the endless drug rundown rundown" is?

Maggie Rowe · 2:42 AM

Scientologists are such better marketers than zen folk

Maggie Rowe · 2:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“@Maggie redundant. that's what it is.”

Maggie Rowe · 2:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“i feel like ive missed a joke. is there a band called red tag though?”

Maggie Rowe · 2:43 AM

There's power in redundancy, huh?

Conrad Romo · 2:43 AM

this action that would once and for all handle my case that the auditing sessions would continue as long as they needed to until this stuff was handled

Conrad Romo · 2:44 AM

it was supposed to deal with stuff related to the effects of drugs

Maggie Rowe · 2:44 AM

but then they told Conrad he could get it taken care of in one fell swoop

Maggie Rowe · 2:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“is whats said about the device different than what its stated for the purposes of being a legal religion?”

Conrad Romo · 2:45 AM

I did the Drug Rundown, that dealt with the effects of drugs, alcohol and of this life and those of the past lives that had residual charge. I did the Grades 0-4 and along the way I also did the Purification Rundown and before that the Sweat Program

Maggie Rowe · 2:45 AM

There's a sweat program?

Conrad Romo · 2:45 AM

this was all supposed to lead to the clearing course

Conrad Romo · 2:46 AM

used to be now it's sitting in a sauna for hours and called a purification rundown

Maggie Rowe · 2:46 AM

I love this story. So it's all building up and they offer you the end of the endless drug rundown rundown for 1500 dollars...?

Maggie Rowe · 2:47 AM

...and you've been trying to go clear like Leonard Cohen...

Maggie Rowe · 2:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“how do they deal with adrenaline junkies? Is that a crack in the foundation?”

Conrad Romo · 2:48 AM

yeah and we went in session and after less than ten minutes I was told that I had gone clear in a past session so that was that we could not go on and I was now broke but didn't argue because the meter didn't lie I believed

Maggie Rowe · 2:48 AM

Tha'ts your book, Conrad. "The Meter Didn't Lie - I Believed"

Maggie Rowe · 2:49 AM

I could say the same thing with "The Bible Didn't Lie - I Believed"

Maggie Rowe · 2:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I'd read both!”

Conrad Romo · 2:50 AM

I don't know why scientologists don't look at the cult and read the label the way that they would a product that they eat

Maggie Rowe · 2:50 AM

It's nice believing things. Jeffrey Dauhmer believed he should eat people. Dude totally followed his faith

Maggie Rowe · 2:51 AM

The New Age is ready for a cannibal religion

Conrad Romo · 2:51 AM

if they just looked at the life of hubbard, his family life his physical condition his autopsy they'd see all sorts of things that were inconsistent

Conrad Romo · 2:51 AM

I wont bite if you won't

Maggie Rowe · 2:52 AM

Conrad, will you start it with me? We can repurpose your old e-meter - We'll be the best squirrels ever!

Maggie Rowe · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“lol @ Dahmer following his faith”

Maggie Rowe · 2:53 AM

Dahmer is a man of faith. It always seems silly when that is praised - "man of faith"

Maggie Rowe · 2:53 AM

Faith in what?

Conrad Romo · 2:53 AM

I don't have my old emeter any more but I sure could use a buck so why the hell not

Maggie Rowe · 2:53 AM

We'll make our own e-meter

Maggie Rowe · 2:54 AM

Hubbard said "if it's not written, it's not true,"

Conrad Romo · 2:54 AM

I just learned that hubbard ripped off that invention from some too

Maggie Rowe · 2:54 AM

So Hubbard is a squirrel himself?

Maggie Rowe · 2:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“miscavige is and all of the revision and new "tech" they "discovered"”

Conrad Romo · 2:55 AM

Hubbard said: if it's not written, it's not true- referring to his bulletins and policies that he signed as the author. a word on the written word, Hubbard took ownership of the writing of a number of others.

Maggie Rowe · 2:55 AM

Yeah, what's with the titanium slabs?

Conrad Romo · 2:55 AM

hubbard was a big fat squirrel

Maggie Rowe · 2:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from John Baker

“im sorry. i read a lot and have actually been to scientology centers but they wouldnt hire me to clean the carpets”

Maggie Rowe · 2:56 AM

It's like the new versions of the Bible where they had to destroy previous ones

Conrad Romo · 2:56 AM

the whole of the library of hubbard is written on slabs stored underground in New Mexico

Maggie Rowe · 2:57 AM

but it's the old squirrely version, right?

Conrad Romo · 2:58 AM

but the books have all been rewritten without the edits that were previously in and resold to the members a brilliant way to make a lot more money

Maggie Rowe · 2:58 AM

Zen folk should work on their salesmanship

Maggie Rowe · 2:59 AM

There's no hard sell

Conrad Romo · 2:59 AM

a good scientologist would have to toss out his old books and buy all new ones and pay through the nose and smile

Maggie Rowe · 2:59 AM

And not blink, right?

Maggie Rowe · 3:00 AM

Thanks for talking Conrad and everyone. It's 7 - love to talk more at some point - see you at the zen center conrad!

Conrad Romo · 3:00 AM

attraction rather than promotion and blink as you like

Maggie Rowe · 3:00 AM

haha - great ending!!

Conrad Romo · 3:00 AM

thanks

Forum · 44

Forum· 44 comments

134 visitors

Tawkers AdminDec 9, 2013, 2:11 AM

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Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:02 AM

why hello!

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:04 AM

Tawk On!

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

Plus I heard that Zen is much less expensive…

Blake IanDec 11, 2013, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

My dog's name is Bodhi - he turned 6 months today, so feel free to meditate on that.

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:14 AM

This is supposed to help you deal with stress in other areas of your life?

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:15 AM★ Spotlighted

freedom from the human condition -- which sounds odd for a religion that purports to not practice 'disconnecting'

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:15 AM

the ability to willful disassociate

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:15 AM

John-O!

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:16 AM

Mr Birnbaum (in the voice of Hugo Weaving)

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

LMAO - I flunked out of Zen!

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

is that possible? did you fall off your motorcycle?

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

Is anyone else thinking of that scene in A Clockwork Orange?

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

im thinking of that scene in scienfeld, where george isnt recruited by the sunshine carpet cleaners

JIm VallelyDec 11, 2013, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

I was going to ask the "all clear" question!

JIm VallelyDec 11, 2013, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

Conrad, do you think people from Scientology are looking at this now, monitoring you?

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

so "Clear" is the same thing as "Zen" only it costs a fortune.

JIm VallelyDec 11, 2013, 2:25 AM

Sorry

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

What impact does Paul Haggis and other high profile defections have on the community?

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

Who has it worse? Haggis or Rushdie? And what is the word for "jihad" in Scientology?

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

like operation freakout

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

@John is that from Fight Club? Or was that Project Mayhem? (I have to watch that movie again!)

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:38 AM

lol

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

well... im sure some likenesses can be drawn

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

Red Tag rocks! Their new album is killer!

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:41 AM★ Spotlighted

i feel like ive missed a joke. is there a band called red tag though?

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:42 AM★ Spotlighted

@Maggie redundant. that's what it is.

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:43 AM

@Jon only a hypothetical one

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:43 AM

@jordan i need to practice my @'s

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:43 AM

@Jon I can send you some workout tapes.

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:44 AM★ Spotlighted

is whats said about the device different than what its stated for the purposes of being a legal religion?

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:46 AM★ Spotlighted

how do they deal with adrenaline junkies? Is that a crack in the foundation?

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:47 AM

@jordan i dont workout. thats unamerican

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:49 AM★ Spotlighted

I'd read both!

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:52 AM★ Spotlighted

lol @ Dahmer following his faith

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:54 AM★ Spotlighted

miscavige is and all of the revision and new "tech" they "discovered"

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:55 AM★ Spotlighted

im sorry. i read a lot and have actually been to scientology centers but they wouldnt hire me to clean the carpets

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:56 AM

lol @Jon. Stupid Sunshine Carpet Cleaners!

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:56 AM

@jb lol yes

Jordan BirnbaumDec 11, 2013, 2:57 AM

Great Tawk!!! so sorry I have to bounce. (I have a Tawk of my own!) I hope this is to be continued…

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 2:57 AM

@jordan good luck

John BakerDec 11, 2013, 3:00 AM

thank you both for a very entertaining and informative discussion

Omar somethingMar 15, 2014, 6:25 AM

Scientology shouldn't be considered a religion. It's more of an occult for the rich and famous