Jordan Birnbaum

Host

Shutting Down The Shutdown

Oct 15, 2013·497 visitors

Zach Green

Cohost

Stage· 143 messages

Oct 15, 2013

I'm thrilled to welcome back one of the leaders of modern political activism, Zach Green, founder of UniteBlue.Org (my personal favorite online organization). We're here to address the shutdown, the causes, the ramifications, and the implications for our future. Plus I'll ask what any of us can do about it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:30 PM

Mr. Green I presume?

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:30 PM

well, here's a warning - apparently Zach has not slept in 24 hours, and he launched a major twitterbomb this morning.

Zach Green · 6:31 PM

Howdy Jordan, and everyone tuning in.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:31 PM

Thanks so much for doing this again. I wish it was initiated by better circumstances.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Trey Williamson

“Let's shut this shit down! Or open it up! Or, wait what are we doing?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:32 PM

well, I think part of the problem is we don't know what we're doing!

Zach Green · 6:32 PM

Well, I'm not expecting many good stories to come from Congress before November 2014, so I'm glad we didn't wait.

Zach Green · 6:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“yo!! i am now here. let's get this party started!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:33 PM

good point. Ok for starters, #EndThisNow seemed to be a major hit this morning. Were you pleased with the results?

Zach Green · 6:33 PM

Looks like over 45,000 Tweets have been sent with #EndThisNow since 11am ET, so there's a start.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:34 PM

well that certainly gets me feeling inspired!

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:34 PM

always good to see that other people are sane and care....

Zach Green · 6:35 PM

We both think numbers are beautiful, but the qualitative sense of unity we're seeing is really important. Everyone on the Left is in lockstep over the shutdown.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:35 PM

I completely agree -the intangible impacts are the greatest

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:36 PM

OK -so let's discuss the causes for the shutdown. Ostensiblky, this is about the far-right wing of the Republican House trying to defund the ACA. Do you think it's that simple?

Zach Green · 6:36 PM

That sums it up pretty well.

Zach Green · 6:37 PM

They have given up on defunding, and are just trying to delay implementation for a year, beyond 2014, so it can be defunded at that time. Important distinction without a difference... I mean "compromise."

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:38 PM

Do you think there is a fear it might succeed? what would be the ramifications if Obamacare was a huge hit with the public?

Zach Green · 6:38 PM

Absolutely on the first questions - the GOP is scared that Americans will realize Obamacare works once it is implemented.

Zach Green · 6:40 PM

I'll give it to the GOP: they won the initial messaging war on Obamacare, and the President failed in 2010 to make his case to the public once the ACA was passed.

Zach Green · 6:40 PM

Once Obamacare is implemented, and people see the ACA working with specific and tangible benefits, you'll see public opinion swing the other way, guaranteed.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:40 PM

But it would mean a lot of egg on a lot of Republican / Tea Party faces if it is successful moving forward...

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:41 PM

OK - now this hostage taking strategy is not new - in fact, sequestration was the result of the last debt ceiling showdown. Do you think the far right is emboldened by that experience?

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:42 PM

I mean, I don't see how sequestration represents a right wing compromise at all. It represents a complete win, IMO.

Zach Green · 6:42 PM

All I'll say is that I wish the Democratic Party and progressive grassroots were in lockstep back then like they are today.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:43 PM

Me too! I think we needed to set the precedent then! And we're paying for it with sequestration now!

Zach Green · 6:43 PM

Yes, but I understand that in 2010-2012 the GOP were all too happy to burn this country down so long as they can call Obama the arsonist.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:44 PM

Cutting off your national nose to spite your national face

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:44 PM

turning the Statue of Liberty into the Sphinx!

Zach Green · 6:44 PM

Well the "Tea Party" isn't part of the GOP..*cough*

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:45 PM

lol -good one!

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:45 PM

OK -so Lucy raises a good point:

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“it seems that this shut down cant stop,unless Cantor says so. do you know the GOP passed a bill that said that?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:45 PM

how was this allowed to happen? How is it that the GOP seemingly changes procedure at their whim? Why can't our nside do that?

Zach Green · 6:46 PM

I don't know the different parliamentary procedures for both houses, but if the GOP can do it on a whim then it sure would be nice for Reid to finally deliver filibuster reform.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:47 PM

I saw the recent cover of Time were the words "Majority Rule" with an "x" over them, indicating that majority rule no longer applied in Washington legislative practices. Is that a fair statement?

Zach Green · 6:48 PM

Yea, I was talking about that with a reporter from TIME the other day. I still think this is the better cover: pic.twitter.com/s0xlygC2H3

Zach Green · 6:49 PM

...but seriously, that TIME cover conveyed the idea well - we are seeing a tyranny of the minority.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:49 PM

What kind of impact does that message have on the Americcan psyche? Is it driving us to action, making us more cynical, or maybe even both?

Zach Green · 6:50 PM

Well, let's start with the history. Shutdowns have happened a reasonable amount in the US.

Zach Green · 6:50 PM

The House is meant to have power of the purse, and restrain the Executive, so I think a shutdown by the minority could be acceptable under circumstances.

Zach Green · 6:50 PM

What's different about this shutdown? *It has nothing to do with the budget*

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:51 PM

excellent point

Zach Green · 6:51 PM

Obamacare is funded. It's implementation had absolutely nothing to do with the budget. Don't forget that.

Zach Green · 6:52 PM

So shutting down the government in a last-ditch effort to undermine a program that Senator Obama campaigned on and won in 2008, that was passed by the House and Senate, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court, and reaffirmed in 2012...

Zach Green · 6:53 PM

...this is another matter altogether. That's an abuse of what can technically be done under bad faith, which is destructive.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:54 PM

exactly. I think most reasonable people can agree that the shutdown is just a bargaining chip for these people to try to get what they want, which they couldn't accomplish through legal and acceptable channels.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:54 PM

But what makes this negotiating strategy so deplorable are the ramifications of their being employed.

Zach Green · 6:55 PM

Well, it is funny how hard you have to squint watching the GOP shut that whole thing down while claiming they didn't.

Zach Green · 6:55 PM

"I would never shutdown the government" is a lot more convincing when you don't also say "I want to drown government in the bathtub."

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:55 PM

So true! I've heard some staggering figures about the financial implications of the shutdown -it's already cost $2 billion and counting.

Zach Green · 6:56 PM

$5 billion if it lasts all of October.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:56 PM

not to mention creating severe economic hardship for hundreds of thousands of federal workers.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:56 PM

Does the right wing not realize or not care?

Zach Green · 6:57 PM

They sure do care about one goddamned monument all of a sudden. The rest of the costs? It's just a minor "slimdown" according to FoxNews, what's to worry about?

Zach Green · 6:58 PM

Seriously though, I encourage you all to read this great post by UniteBlue advisor @JRGaillot listing the costs of the shutdown: http://uniteblue.org/community/2013/10/tell-the-house-gop-to-endthisnow/

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:58 PM

Thanks for sharing that! Well, let's go on counting the immeasurable harm achieved by the shutdown. We know have China suggesting the world prepare to un-Americanize.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:58 PM

how do we measure the international impact?

Zach Green · 6:59 PM

Two words I'd use to describe the world's reaction: mocking and scared.

Jordan Birnbaum · 6:59 PM

not a good combo

Zach Green · 7:00 PM

The House GOP are an international joke, just turn on BBC for a few minutes. At the same time, everyone knows the Tea Party can bring this whole party down.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:00 PM

The Tea Party is like Frankenstein - it wil destroy its creator

Zach Green · 7:01 PM

They're going to tear down the Koch brothers? That'd be nice.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:01 PM

well, I haven't consulted them or anything - just conjecture!

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:02 PM

OK - now I remember when Mitch McConnel said that the legislative priority in Congress was to make Obama a 1-term president. This shutdown is another example of the contempt for the public good.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:02 PM

At what point are we allowed to declare treason?

Zach Green · 7:02 PM

Tuesday, November 4, 2014.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:02 PM

Isn't this taxation without representation?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:03 PM

good answer, man!

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“the Koch brothers can kiss my ass!”

Zach Green · 7:03 PM

I hear Mitch McConnell made a new pledge: "Obama will only be a two-term president."

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:03 PM

That's the first promise he'll ever keep!

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:04 PM

so this is a good time to segway to your specialty -what are we as concerned citizens to do about it?

Zach Green · 7:04 PM

Well let's go back a step or two to the polling first.

Zach Green · 7:05 PM

Every single poll puts the blame for the shutdown squarely on the GOP.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:05 PM

is it enough to spark change at the ballots?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:06 PM

and is being enough even enough when the votes are counted by Diebolt and districts are gerymandered?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“JB,everyone knows the ballots are rigged”

Zach Green · 7:06 PM

The only folks who don't blame the GOP for the shutdown are probably the same folks who blame Obama for the response to Katrina in 2005.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:07 PM

You know, instead of having to show id to vote, we should make people pass a reality test

Zach Green · 7:07 PM

(Yes, more Louisiana GOP blamed Obama than Bush for FEMA's failed response to Katrina -- in 2005)

Zach Green · 7:07 PM

Anyway - the blame is on the GOP, but that isn't enough.

Zach Green · 7:08 PM

We need to make the costs of the shutdown painstakingly clear to everybody.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:09 PM

and try to win back democratic control of the House.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:09 PM

imagtine the progress we could make

Zach Green · 7:09 PM

Well, that's the first step :) That's where we are now - holding the GOP accountable, making the costs of their "tyranny of the minority" clear so folks will want to vote them out.

Zach Green · 7:10 PM

Unless we hammer the damage of the shutdown home for folks, they might blame the GOP but not change their votes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:10 PM

So UniteBlue is doing quite a bit to nurture, foster and organize campaigning at a local level. I am impressed and grateful, btw!

Zach Green · 7:11 PM

Thank you :)

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:12 PM

But beyond the votes, shouldn't we have some legislative goals in mind? End the filibuster. End gerrymandering. End procedural manipulation. End all the tools used to bring us to this point of dysfunction.

Zach Green · 7:12 PM

Procedural, legislative goals don't turn out the vote, if that's what you mean. That's just inside baseball for us politics wonks :)

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:13 PM

damn, there's a lot to do!

Zach Green · 7:13 PM

Americans do want action on gun control, job creation, immigration reform, and climate change. Republicans are blocking progress on all of those.

Zach Green · 7:13 PM

Hell, the GOP aren't just making the 113th Congress the least productive in history (only 15 bills passed so far), now they're trying to make it net counter-productive with the shutdown.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:14 PM

Well said.

Zach Green · 7:14 PM

If we want to achieve ANYTHING, anything at all, before 2016, we need to flip the House in 2014.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:15 PM

Again, I cannot overstate my appreciation for how much you and UniteBlue are doing to help bring us to that end.

Zach Green · 7:16 PM

Thank you, and that's where it becomes incredibly clear that it isn't me making this happen. We have over 10 state coordinators working to turn red states blue in 2014, and we're looking for more ;)

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:16 PM

Kudos to them!

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:17 PM

OK - One last thing before I let you go.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:17 PM

You might remember that in our last Tawk, I shared with you my anecdotal theory / paradox.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:18 PM

Which was that the Internet, and Twitter in particular, had achieved the most optimistic goals for its ability to build and empower political communities.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:18 PM

And yet at the same time, it seemed like every year since the advent of the Internet (approx. 1994), the government had gotten WORSE and LESS RESPONSIVE.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:19 PM

And I couldn't figure out why this was.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:19 PM

Well, I got an answer, from a woman named Lorelei Kelly -that I thought would interest you very much.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:19 PM

care to hear it?

Zach Green · 7:20 PM

Sure thing

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:21 PM

In 1994, when Newt Gingrinch came in with his Contract For America, he began to systematically disassemble the presence of Scientific Advisory Boards at all levels of government.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:21 PM

It literally drove all scientists and people with PhD level expertise from the public sector. As a result, the government has been crumbling into madness ever since.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:22 PM

The good news is that provides a relatively simple solution - bring back the smart people!

Zach Green · 7:22 PM

That's tougher than it sounds, and the GOP took great advantage of the recession to cut out that funding.

Zach Green · 7:23 PM

I guess I'll give a quick closing story too..

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:23 PM

Yes -it is tough, but it helps to understand how we got here.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:23 PM

ok god

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:23 PM

good

Zach Green · 7:23 PM

Someone whom I am close with was working on Neuroscience research at Harvard University back in 2010

Zach Green · 7:25 PM

Now we all remember the GOP using the debt ceiling debate to force the Sequester.

Zach Green · 7:25 PM

My pal lost their funding, which was coming from the NIH, and had to go on unemployment.

Zach Green · 7:26 PM

Now, the unemployment checks weren't actually much less than the stipends from neuroscience research.

Zach Green · 7:26 PM

...so, they travelled for a year.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:26 PM

OMG -so they pay him to stop working and do nothing?

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:26 PM

unbelievable

Zach Green · 7:26 PM

Exactly - they were paid to not work. That's what we're seeing today with the shutdown.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:26 PM

everybody loses in that

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:27 PM

especially the people who will benefit from the research

Zach Green · 7:27 PM

800,000 furloughed workers, and now a massive spike in unemployment claims.

Zach Green · 7:27 PM

Yes, this was research to help small deaf children hear for the first time. No big deal.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:28 PM

unfortunately, there is no limit to incompetence and bad intent.

Zach Green · 7:28 PM

I just can't get over how they were paid not to work. So where are the smart people going? The GOP is firing them whenever they get the chance.

Zach Green · 7:28 PM

...and that's the story we need going to 2014.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:28 PM

Well you do a very good job telling it.

Zach Green · 7:28 PM

We have these goals: job creation, immigration reform, gun control, climate change. Republicans won't just block progress, they're causing a lot of damage in the process.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:29 PM

here here

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:29 PM

hear hear?

Zach Green · 7:29 PM

Simple story - but we really need to talk about the specific, tangible impacts of their bad decisions - the real damage they are doing.

Zach Green · 7:29 PM

I'll let you on that note :) #EndThisNow

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:30 PM

Thanks Zach - this was awesome! And I am so excited to dive into the new site - uniteblue.org.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:30 PM

I encourage everyone to go engage. It's good for you, it's good for the country, and it's good for my agita.

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“you wont find any smart people in congress,the senate or the house”

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:31 PM

that's what we're working on, Lucy!

Zach Green · 7:31 PM

Thank you so much for having me, and everyone for tuning in!

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:32 PM

Tawk soon! And thanks to everyone in the forum! You were great (as always!)

Jordan Birnbaum · 7:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“thanks you two for a great Tawk!”

Forum · 21

Forum· 21 comments

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Trey WilliamsonOct 15, 2013, 6:22 PM★ Spotlighted

Let's shut this shit down! Or open it up! Or, wait what are we doing?

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 6:27 PM★ Spotlighted

yo!! i am now here. let's get this party started!

Blake IanOct 15, 2013, 6:33 PM

I saw this earlier today and thought it was, "interesting?" http://www.upworthy.com/congress-did-something-so-spectacularly-creepy-that-its-too-unbelievable-to-make-up?g=2

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 6:34 PM★ Spotlighted

it seems that this shut down cant stop,unless Cantor says so. do you know the GOP passed a bill that said that?

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 6:34 PM

what Blake said!! damn it! lol

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 6:36 PM

and isnt it a coincidence that the price of gold/silver is going up and paper money is becoming worthless? or is that just me?

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 6:38 PM

just me then...

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 6:39 PM

if Obamacare is a hit with the public,then this TPP thing thats going on will probably fall flat on its face. and the fat cats dont want that

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 6:48 PM

did major rule EVER apply in Washington? i mean,really?

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 6:48 PM

majority...damn it i cant spell

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:02 PM★ Spotlighted

the Koch brothers can kiss my ass!

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:03 PM

the Koch brothers own most of congress and the senate....

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:06 PM★ Spotlighted

JB,everyone knows the ballots are rigged

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:07 PM

votes are bought and sold for profit. pure and simple. when you can get money out of politics then ...and maybe then..will you see a change

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:09 PM

oh you will make people realise the cost - when the money runs out,when the food is no longer on the shelves...need i go on?

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:13 PM

what you need is to have more than just the 2 parties. that would be a start

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:23 PM★ Spotlighted

you wont find any smart people in congress,the senate or the house

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:31 PM

and if you do find any? fire em!

Lucy DyerOct 15, 2013, 7:32 PM★ Spotlighted

thanks you two for a great Tawk!