Rebecca Westbrook Toker

Host

Small is Beautiful Part II Chapter 3

Feb 16, 2014·26 visitors

Aaron Meyers

Cohost

Stage· 370 messages

Feb 16, 2014

Returned Peace Corps Volunteer and Green Business Guru Aaron Meyers dives into EF Schumacher's seminal work, Small is Beautiful: Economics as if People Mattered. This week, we continue with Part II, Resources and talk about Resources for Industry. "The most striking thing about modern industry is that it requires so much and accomplishes so little."nFree PDF version of Small is Beautiful at http://www.ee.iitb.ac.in/student/~pdarshan/SmallIsBeautifulSchumacher.pdf

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“whooooooHooooo!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Game on!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:00 AM

Well, nice to see some excited persons in the forum. :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:00 AM

How's everyone?\

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Good n you”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

Things are pretty swell, Jordan, thanks. :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

I love doing this series, even though it's absolutely depressing that Schumacher pretty much foretold the last 40 years of the history of development and we just went right on and wreched things anyway.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

wrecked, that is.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“We can't help ourselves.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

It appears that way. I have no sympathy for human beings with the onset of the fracking quakes. None.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“yea! depressing!!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:03 AM

LOL

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:04 AM

I'm still waiting on my elusive cohost, but I'm just gonna get started, since we've got such shiny, eager personalities here already. :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“I do have sympathy for the people suffering the consequences of others wrecklessness.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

Eh. I kind of think we're all implicated. We're like a mound of fire ants.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

In a general, detached sense.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

I mean, yes, of course it sucks. There are many things that suck about the cycle of human suffering upon the earth. i feel it. I sympathize and empathize.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Stupid human nature.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

But...that. Yeah.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

I mean, until we've created a just, verdant, synergistic world, we've all just got to do better.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“So! chapter 3!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:07 AM

Yep!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:07 AM

Resources for industry.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

Schumacher was an economist for the British Coal Board for most of his career, remember?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“Yes!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Coal? Cough.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“He was a Dirty Santa.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:09 AM

Whatever that means, Seth?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:09 AM

So, he can elaborate on the depletion of myriadrare resources - and he does -

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:10 AM

but says that it all basically boils down to whether we can keep pace with the growth of energy consumption (i.e., industrialization).

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“its called stream of consciousness joke making.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Lol”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:10 AM

Anyway

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:11 AM

he makes the very salient and interesting point that, either we can't keep up with energy consumption rates - in which case, depletion of the other resources that industrialization needs will NOT proceed apace....

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:12 AM

or we WILL keep up with energy needs as technology progresses, in which case technology will keep up with our needs for other resources as well - we'll recycle or substitute or synthesize.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“He certainly made it his daily goal to recognize how energy plays a part in the economy of england.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Was there a sufficient understanding of renewable energy in his day?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:13 AM

I think so, JB. He talks about it a lot. Solar, wind, etc.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:13 AM

He also talks a lot about coal.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:14 AM

He recounts hearing projections about oil consumption outpacing coal consumption and the resultant debates on what to do about coal or whether to regulate oil consumption...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

and he talks about how "everyone" was saying in the late 60s taht coal was irrelevant and that we could use as much oil as we wanted as fast as we wanted because it would all be replaced by nuclear energy generation in a few decades.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

Recklessness.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Peak oil?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

EXACTLY!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

He is able to cite the predictions and also essays of his from before the oil crisis

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:16 AM

wherein he says, hey, wait - Britain imports ll its oil - it needs to keep coal viable so that when oil slows down, it can still keep finctioning.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:17 AM

But britain took coal production down to about 1/3 and disassembled infrastructure - so it no longer had the capacity to produce.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:17 AM

Then the oil crisis came and Britain was hit hard. And couldn't rebound as they could have if coal infrastructure still existed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Kinda dumb”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“Well, that was the prevailing theory at the time that everything would go electric and.or mini nuclear.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“the anti nuclear psycology never really grew large until the late late 70s and early eighties with regan and MAD”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:18 AM

This is all still talking about "dirty" energy, mind you,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:18 AM

but he uses these points to illustrate how silly economic projections ARE.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:19 AM

Everyone was looking AT THE SAME DATA and then using it to say whatever they wanted. Mostly, they said that growth and consumption were justified and everything would be fine.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Sillynomics”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:20 AM

Which they still do, today. (the Climate Change debate, anyone????)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“So that is the large Take-Away here, that projections are poor? he bases his judgements on his own previous predictions and relates them to the present crises!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“his judgement of being right, i mean.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:21 AM

I see what you're saying. Yes, he's making projections, also.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:21 AM

And he owns that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:21 AM

However

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:21 AM

his numbers were based on EXISTING supplies.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:21 AM

he mocks himself for making projections.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:22 AM

He says that basing policy on the unforseen and the unknowable is foolish.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:22 AM

(No sympathy for human beings seems to be a theme tonight :P)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Too many variables for economic projections to be sound...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:23 AM

He talks a lot about dirty energy - iol and coal use

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:23 AM

because that's his field of expertise.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“So, he wants us to be more practical and work from common knowledge?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“or known facts, not predicting, for instance, that more reserves of whatever will be found?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Just watched the movie Dirty Wars and saw how all thus military action is driven by trying yo prevent something they assume will happen. Madness.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

Exactly, both of you!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

But Schumacher's "thing" overall, is that, whether we actually WILL or WANT TO,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

Ultimately, we're going to have to make do with less.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Gold stars all around”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:25 AM

Hahaha.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:25 AM

The actual question we need to be asking is whether the earth can support ever-growing consumption.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

And, he says, this is obviously impossible on a finite planet.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

He says we don't need teams of experts

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

and funding

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

or complex calculations and computer models

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

to derive an intuitive answer.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Answer: no”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

Exactly.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

He's a "walk lighter on the earth" guy.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

But not in those words.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Just common sense”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

Right.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

We know this.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

And WE HAVE KNOWN THIS.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

That's the thing that resonates with me,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

that gets me over and over again as we go through this book:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

Schumacher saw the future,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

and he told us about it,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

and we did it anyway!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

In this chapter, he foretold the TPP.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

Hold on, let me find the excerpt.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Failure to act on knowledge”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

Well, I think a lot of people failed to BELIEVE.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

Update from Aaron: His computer is blowed up.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

And the tablet is not so Tawkers friendly. :(

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

But we can get messages.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:31 AM

Okay, so in foretelling the rise in cost of the important non-renewable resources:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

like manganese, copper, gold, petroleum, etc.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

He cites an MIT study where the authors "do not believe that very much time is left before modern industry, "heavily dependent on a network of international agreements with the producing countries for the supply of raw materials" might be faced with

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

He goes on to further excerpt the MIT study as they speculate on the political questions which would likely hit before the shortage crises,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

namely that smaller nations would suddenly be shown to have a hidden hand as resource reserves were discovered

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

and since then, what has happened???

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

Oil all over the Middle East,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

the rise in their political power,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

all these wars under different guises

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

and now the shady political agreements.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

First there was NAFTA,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

Now TPP.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

And anyway, Schumacher says again that it didn't take a ahole team of MIT schientists and their computers to figure this out.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

But anyway they DID the work - and we still didn't listen.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

WTH, humans?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Sigh”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“atleast its not more outright war...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

The TPP is just outright war on everyone who doesn't own a company.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

An international corporation, at that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

So, TPP is a war on the global 99% crafted behind closed doors by the .01% to please the 1%.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

It stinks to high heaven!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“... havent read much about it other than a highlight on what people said were the most pressing concerns, which were environmental regulations with no enforcement...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

Yeah, it's also an outright war on the planet,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“It's going to take income inequality to a whole new level.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

And Schumacher maintains, basically, that our economic system is both of those things inherently.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

It's damaging to people and the planet

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

for the brief enrichment of a relative few.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

FURTHER,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

HOW RICH ARE THE PEOPLE WHO PROFIT????

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

Even in the US, which, even then, was a massive consumer of all the world's resources (near 50% on most everything)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

despite having only 5% of the world's population,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

crap, i'm late - just got home

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

Hey, Rick! Wouldn't be the same without you!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

So...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

the US consumed so much, but was only rich by economic measurements.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:44 AM

It didn't appear, then or now, that all the consumption made Americans HAPPIER.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:44 AM

So - Again, WTH?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:44 AM

I want to meet one of these rich people someday, get them drunk and steal their money

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

Well, you'll be temporarily richer...but will you be happier? :P

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“it did make them somewhat healthier, for a while...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

Briefly. And now look at us!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

I swear, doing med brigaed in Honduras was CRAZY!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

The US docs who would come down were always BLOWN AWAY by HOW HEALTHY the people were.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

my richness won't last, my wife has expensive taste

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

Venezuela is in Civil War

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

well, war on it's own people

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

What do you want to bet we have our fat hands stuck all in that mess?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

I mean, we effed up Venezuela the last time.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

we probably gave them the guns

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

Oliver North sold em

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

That's funny...but...not. Schmurrr.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Oliver North. What a dick.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

To the point.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

surpised he didn't have a bigger political career

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

Who says he didn't?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

These people are all incestuous about their underhanded dealings. We don't know half of what they do.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

He may not BE a politician, but he may be running something or he may be exchanging money and favors in ways we won't know until far too late.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

they make their own law or can buy their way out of trouble

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

Yes. That.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“North came into the public spotlight as a result of his participation in the Iran–Contra affair, a political scandal during the Reagan Administration, in which he claimed partial responsibility for the sale of weapons via intermediaries to Iran, with”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“the profits being channeled to the Contras in Nicaragua. It was alleged that he was responsible for the establishment of a covert network, which subsequently funneled those funds to the Contras.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

And, Wiki for the win!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“Yea, he is a dick”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

And...they're born that way and seldom change. So I just figure he's still up to no good. :P

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“It's so cool having a research department!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“I cannot believe such a criminal is out being a author and commentator on TV...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

Um...Dick Cheney? George W?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

Why wouldn't you believe that in this day and time?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

Koch Brothers?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

how far is Nicaragua from Venezela?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

far.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

Nica is Central America.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

in slave trade terms?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

OMG, Rick. Are we talking modern slave trade or, like 1492-style?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

because you could probably truck them in 2 days.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

maybe

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“a thousand miles or so, Nica is in central AM, Ven is on the east coast of SA”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

But the Santa Maria would take like a month.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

a thousand mile is a day trip

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

I have only terrible jokes about delivering them fresh.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

And i feel taht we should say that slavery is horrible and not to be joked about.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

salvery is horrible

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

three tanks of gas

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

Ah, we are horrible people!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

So, to atone...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

How do we solve the problem of resources for industry?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU),[18] North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“congressional testimony”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“WTF?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

The ACLU?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

Are you fucking kidding me?????

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

damn human trafficking

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Bummer”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

Well, maybe there IS no hope, if the ACLU worked to get Oliver North free. my mind does not accept this fact.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“While the defense could show no specific instance in which North's congressional testimony was used in his trial, the Court of Appeals ruled that the trial judge had made an insufficient examination of the issue.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“Consequently, North's convictions were reversed. After further hearings on the immunity issue, Judge Gesell dismissed all charges against North on September 16, 1991.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Sigh”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“ok, I know we are really really off track here...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“but this is crazy.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“and I am now done.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

Dude.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

That's totally something outrageous that should be discussed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

But I don't even know what to say!!!!\

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

slow clap?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

That works, Rick.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

Jeezy, Creezy!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

So...who the fuck wants to invite Oliver North as a keynote speaker? I mean, really?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

What does that do for your organization?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

For your morale?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

What can he possibly...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

I am aghast. Preplexed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“good job, MR. Money and Power to free a convicted, treasonous felon of a slap on the wrist, using a Civil Rights organization as your battering ram.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

We have to stop talking about this.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“yep”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

WTF?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

are you two in the same room, throw something at him

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

I don't even have to anymore. #thelook

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

something soft and billowy

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

Well, what do you think I wear to these tawks, Rick?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Like pasta?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

#thelookofdeath gasp!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

Anyway, yeah...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

so...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

answers about what to do about resource consumption...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

Probably with LESS pasta usage.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Nothing like a good spaghetti fight. Assuming no sauce, obviously.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“Kill the Humans!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“Release the Zombies!!!!!!!!!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“Only the strong and clever survive!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

get more players in the system that can get us money so we can be players - go team

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

How do we do that, Rick?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

Oh, wait - Seth told me that there are some Repubs who espouse something akin to the Fair tax

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

wherein there is a standard yearly tax rebate for EVERY man, woman, child.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“yea! invest in Solar!!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“We can all be rich!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“as a group, solar stock rose 140% last year!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

and the bar is not where they are at

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

that's what I been trying to figure out my entire life

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

Hahahahaha! they're probably at the bar - in the private yacht on board the private jet.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

energy kickbacks are big dividends

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“@rick: what kickbacks?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“stock dividends?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

tax incentives, grant write offs

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

That's true!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

I view this as mostly positive.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

BUT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Have you heard ablout ALEC trying to punish people by taxing them for getting off the grid???

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Because they "don't pay their fair share"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

ROFL.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

These are all the tax-evading Cayman Island rats!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“yes, they are trying to do that, its justified as the fee for keeping the grid kept up”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“no one invests for dividends anymore unless youre a billionaire.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“thats not the same deffinition as a kickback. ;)”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

the grid will control your life

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“actually, most all of those fights have been won by the solar industry”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“the biggest losses are taking a 7 dollar per KWh fee down to about 35 cents.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“but the idea is that it the wedge to raise those rates”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

That's so effing annoying.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“if you look at germany, it shows that the fears of peak production de stabilizing the grid are un warrented”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

YES!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

What's gremany up to now?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

% Solar production?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

It's HIGH.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Germans are smart

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

And disciplined.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

and scary

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“the real fear in destabilization is the loss of energy production revenue. and perhaps that if they loose enough they will not invest in infrastructure any more... and so we might want to follow Boulders lead and”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“take over the maintainence locally”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

YES!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

I mean, Boulder is having a continuing fight to maintain sovereignty over their hard-won energy rights, but they are still a success story, though the energy company propaganda would have you believe otherwise.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“about 35% of their energy is solar”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“they purchased too much too early when products were more costly, but it gave them the advantage of being the first”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

I worked with a German technical crew offshore - they were possibly the most brilliant people I ever met

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

they were responsible for the device that drove piles out in 2000' of water

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

Holy cow. That's freaking cool!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

And scary, like you said.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“@ rick: thats soo cool. they have a lot of vision and self esteem in their abilities.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

no the scary one was the drunk named Constantine in New Orleans

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

hahahaha!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

We had a drunk German in Honduras.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

named Arthur.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

He pooped on the roof.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

And couldn't get down.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“and he loved loved loved bananna milk shakes”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“put those two together....”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Roof pooper”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

Yep. Never lived it down.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

It's an unfortunate even in one's social life.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“well economic discussion aside, this is a great time we are all having...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Tru dat”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

We HAVE answers.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

We KNOW what to do, which is:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

Use less.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

Do better.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

we sure know how to throw down ona Saturday night

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

True!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

One more story:\

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

So, today on the radio i heard that some scientists are working on Colorado's water problem in a seriously cool way.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

So,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

I guess the sand storms in Arizona have worsened in recent years

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

um...surprised, anyone?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

and this causes a problem for CO because the sand blows all the way up there.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

this is a reefer story isn't it - wait you went from Colorado to Arizona

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Sort of?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

So, the sand settles on the snow.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

makes it darker and therefore less reflective

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

so the snow melts faster

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

which affects the ecology because water melts more quickly than it normally would and runs off faster

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

as well as raising temperatures just s little bit on the ground so that plants germinate days or weeks faster

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

using just that much more water during the growing season.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

So it exacerbates the water shortage.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

flash floods

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

And that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

SO...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Jan brewer has a lot of hot air.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

And that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

So...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

this guys was talking about how normally, there is a living skin on the earth

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

including in the desert

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

and this is what holds topsoil (and sand) in place.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

It's made up mostly of cyanobateria.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“This has a happy ending?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

YES!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

So, this team is working on REGROWING that skin!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

Because:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

sandstorms are not fun

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

I went thru one in missippi and in texas

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

They're culturing and growing the crust/skin!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Sometimes they have to stabilize dunes with, like, hay bales,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

which, they admit,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

isn't exactly natural,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

but ti gets the job done faster.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

the delta had a dry season and a gust of wind blasted the area yards in phoenix have rocks and cactus

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

no grass

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

It has widespread implications!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

It seems like we could do this anywhere that we've damaged that skin.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

ie, through plowing, etc.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

So, I was telling Seth this story, and he gets all amused and excited because;

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“In fact, there is a series of books, Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars, by Kim Stanley Robinson, a Si Fi author, whos charactors use this technique as one of the first tera-forming techniques for colonizing Mars.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“if most SiFi at some point turns out to be useful, if it is based on good science, this is a good indicator that this will work too.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

Wouldn't you LOVE to know if that's where he got his idea????

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

(We watched this Netflix series awhile back called "Prophets of Science Fiction" - y'all should look it up! Super Cool!)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Cool!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

they were totally cool with their rock garden

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“by the way, if you want to read a book that is really plausable and exciting about exo-colonies, yall need to read these.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

I finally just ate dinner

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“http://www.amazon.com/Red-Mars-Trilogy-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553560735/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392517708&sr=8-2&keywords=red+mars”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

So, anyway, that's a super nerdy and positive note to end on. NPR marries Sci-Fi. <3 <3

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“Cheers for dinner.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“I also ate dinner, earlier, and it was eye-opening.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Fun Tawk!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“it has inspired me to up my barbeque game.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

With a solar oven?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

mm, I wish I had a grill

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

coal and lighter fluid

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

Mmmmp. Og make fire. Burn meat. Yum! :P

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

Anyway, you guys are great!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

Thanks for being here Jordan, Rick and Seth.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

I am decidedly less peeved than when we started.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

it's been fun

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

I'll see you guys next week for Nuclear Energy!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

Man, there will be some opinions on that one!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Nite all”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

g'night

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“True that. this has been super fun. We love you.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Muah!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

Enjoy your weekend. Have a great week!

Forum · 113

Forum· 113 comments

26 visitors

Tawkers AdminFeb 14, 2014, 3:59 PM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 12:58 AM★ Spotlighted

whooooooHooooo!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 12:59 AM★ Spotlighted

Game on!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 12:59 AM

Aaron! when you gonna move out here and bask in the 1GB internet??

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Good n you

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:02 AM★ Spotlighted

yea! depressing!!!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:03 AM★ Spotlighted

We can't help ourselves.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:04 AM★ Spotlighted

I do have sympathy for the people suffering the consequences of others wrecklessness.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:05 AM★ Spotlighted

Stupid human nature.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:06 AM★ Spotlighted

So! chapter 3!!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:08 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:08 AM★ Spotlighted

Coal? Cough.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:08 AM★ Spotlighted

He was a Dirty Santa.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:09 AM★ Spotlighted

its called stream of consciousness joke making.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:10 AM★ Spotlighted

Lol

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:10 AM★ Spotlighted

He certainly made it his daily goal to recognize how energy plays a part in the economy of england.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:11 AM★ Spotlighted

Was there a sufficient understanding of renewable energy in his day?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:15 AM★ Spotlighted

Peak oil?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:15 AM

It's not going to be fun

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:16 AM★ Spotlighted

Well, that was the prevailing theory at the time that everything would go electric and.or mini nuclear.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:16 AM★ Spotlighted

the anti nuclear psycology never really grew large until the late late 70s and early eighties with regan and MAD

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:17 AM★ Spotlighted

Kinda dumb

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:19 AM★ Spotlighted

Sillynomics

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:20 AM★ Spotlighted

So that is the large Take-Away here, that projections are poor? he bases his judgements on his own previous predictions and relates them to the present crises!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:20 AM★ Spotlighted

his judgement of being right, i mean.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:21 AM★ Spotlighted

Too many variables for economic projections to be sound...

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:23 AM★ Spotlighted

So, he wants us to be more practical and work from common knowledge?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:24 AM★ Spotlighted

Just watched the movie Dirty Wars and saw how all thus military action is driven by trying yo prevent something they assume will happen. Madness.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:24 AM★ Spotlighted

or known facts, not predicting, for instance, that more reserves of whatever will be found?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:24 AM★ Spotlighted

Gold stars all around

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:26 AM★ Spotlighted

Answer: no

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:26 AM★ Spotlighted

Just common sense

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:28 AM★ Spotlighted

Failure to act on knowledge

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:32 AM

I'm always amazed at the correlation between computer mishaps and the perennially late.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:33 AM

sorry, bed time called for Bonzo

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:37 AM★ Spotlighted

Sigh

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:38 AM★ Spotlighted

atleast its not more outright war...

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:40 AM★ Spotlighted

... havent read much about it other than a highlight on what people said were the most pressing concerns, which were environmental regulations with no enforcement...

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:40 AM★ Spotlighted

It's going to take income inequality to a whole new level.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:43 AM

Hey Rick!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:43 AM

Hey Rick

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:44 AM★ Spotlighted

it did make them somewhat healthier, for a while...

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:48 AM★ Spotlighted

Oliver North. What a dick.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:50 AM★ Spotlighted

North came into the public spotlight as a result of his participation in the Iran–Contra affair, a political scandal during the Reagan Administration, in which he claimed partial responsibility for the sale of weapons via intermediaries to Iran, with

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:50 AM★ Spotlighted

the profits being channeled to the Contras in Nicaragua. It was alleged that he was responsible for the establishment of a covert network, which subsequently funneled those funds to the Contras.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:51 AM

-wikipedia

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:51 AM★ Spotlighted

Yea, he is a dick

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:51 AM★ Spotlighted

It's so cool having a research department!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:51 AM★ Spotlighted

I cannot believe such a criminal is out being a author and commentator on TV...

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:53 AM★ Spotlighted

a thousand miles or so, Nica is in central AM, Ven is on the east coast of SA

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:54 AM

yea, but those guys slinked back into their corporate shadows...

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:56 AM★ Spotlighted

However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU),[18] North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:56 AM★ Spotlighted

congressional testimony

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:56 AM★ Spotlighted

WTF?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:57 AM★ Spotlighted

Bummer

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:57 AM★ Spotlighted

While the defense could show no specific instance in which North's congressional testimony was used in his trial, the Court of Appeals ruled that the trial judge had made an insufficient examination of the issue.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:57 AM★ Spotlighted

Consequently, North's convictions were reversed. After further hearings on the immunity issue, Judge Gesell dismissed all charges against North on September 16, 1991.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:58 AM★ Spotlighted

ok, I know we are really really off track here...

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 1:58 AM★ Spotlighted

Sigh

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:58 AM★ Spotlighted

but this is crazy.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 1:58 AM★ Spotlighted

and I am now done.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:00 AM★ Spotlighted

good job, MR. Money and Power to free a convicted, treasonous felon of a slap on the wrist, using a Civil Rights organization as your battering ram.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:02 AM★ Spotlighted

yep

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:02 AM★ Spotlighted

Like pasta?

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:03 AM

Do you have a vest or something I can wear?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:04 AM★ Spotlighted

Nothing like a good spaghetti fight. Assuming no sauce, obviously.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:04 AM★ Spotlighted

Kill the Humans!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:04 AM★ Spotlighted

Release the Zombies!!!!!!!!!!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:04 AM★ Spotlighted

Only the strong and clever survive!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:05 AM★ Spotlighted

yea! invest in Solar!!!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:05 AM★ Spotlighted

We can all be rich!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:05 AM★ Spotlighted

as a group, solar stock rose 140% last year!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:06 AM

the minimum living wage, or something, it ranges from 7 to 10k and not kids, it would count everyone over 18 as a recipient.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

@rick: what kickbacks?

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

stock dividends?

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

no one invests for dividends anymore unless youre a billionaire.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:08 AM★ Spotlighted

thats not the same deffinition as a kickback. ;)

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

yes, they are trying to do that, its justified as the fee for keeping the grid kept up

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

actually, most all of those fights have been won by the solar industry

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

the biggest losses are taking a 7 dollar per KWh fee down to about 35 cents.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

but the idea is that it the wedge to raise those rates

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

if you look at germany, it shows that the fears of peak production de stabilizing the grid are un warrented

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:11 AM★ Spotlighted

the real fear in destabilization is the loss of energy production revenue. and perhaps that if they loose enough they will not invest in infrastructure any more... and so we might want to follow Boulders lead and

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:11 AM★ Spotlighted

take over the maintainence locally

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:12 AM★ Spotlighted

about 35% of their energy is solar

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:13 AM★ Spotlighted

they purchased too much too early when products were more costly, but it gave them the advantage of being the first

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

@ rick: thats soo cool. they have a lot of vision and self esteem in their abilities.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

and he loved loved loved bananna milk shakes

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

put those two together....

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

Roof pooper

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

well economic discussion aside, this is a great time we are all having...

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

Tru dat

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:19 AM

Lol

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:21 AM★ Spotlighted

Jan brewer has a lot of hot air.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:23 AM★ Spotlighted

This has a happy ending?

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:24 AM

yea! really exciting

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:24 AM

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:26 AM★ Spotlighted

In fact, there is a series of books, Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars, by Kim Stanley Robinson, a Si Fi author, whos charactors use this technique as one of the first tera-forming techniques for colonizing Mars.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:27 AM★ Spotlighted

if most SiFi at some point turns out to be useful, if it is based on good science, this is a good indicator that this will work too.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:27 AM★ Spotlighted

Cool!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

by the way, if you want to read a book that is really plausable and exciting about exo-colonies, yall need to read these.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Mars-Trilogy-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553560735/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392517708&sr=8-2&keywords=red+mars

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

Cheers for dinner.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

I also ate dinner, earlier, and it was eye-opening.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

Fun Tawk!

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

it has inspired me to up my barbeque game.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:31 AM

nah... wood and smoke and cancer.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:31 AM

its the best way.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:31 AM

why does cancer taste so good?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 16, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

Nite all

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

True that. this has been super fun. We love you.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:34 AM

Maillard reaction.

Seth Westbrook TokerFeb 16, 2014, 2:34 AM

Nite!!!!