Rebecca Westbrook Toker

Host

Small is Beautiful Part II Chapter 4

Feb 25, 2014·41 visitors

Seth Westbrook Toker

Cohost

Stage· 441 messages

Feb 25, 2014

Green Techie Seth Westbrook Toker sits in for usual host Green Business Guru Aaron Meyers, as we dive into EF Schumacher's seminal work, Small is Beautiful: Economics as if People Mattered. This week, we continue discussing Resources, and this time we look at the still-controversial role of Nuclear Energy. Come by and share your thoughts! nFree PDF version of Small is Beautiful at http://www.ee.iitb.ac.in/student/~pdarshan/SmallIsBeautifulSchumacher.pdf

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin

“Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

hello, Boys and girls!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

HOWDYYYY!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Good evening!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

I MUST apologize for spacing outon you all Saturday night.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

but, we're all right here for a good old time talking about nuclear proliferation on monday night!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“hiya! =D”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“no prob. i did too”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

Wooohooo! We know how to start the week of right!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

Well, then here we are, when and where we should be.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“oh, good, i was wondering”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Hahaha.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Okay, folks, let's get right to it:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Hello hello!”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Jordan!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Hey, Jordan! I'm always happy to see you!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“"small is beautiful"? nuclear? none... is beautiful!”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

I air quote in honor of you, sir.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Um, this, Robin.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“No where else I'd rather be”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

Well, we're glad to have you - as we talk about what Robin says, which is, that nuclear is a mistake.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

People just do not have this shit under control.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“<-- waiting to be enlightened”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

Exhibit A: http://optimalprediction.com/wp/plutonium-release-from-the-wipp-radioactive-waste-facility/

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

the reactors are bad enough as a risky enterprise, but its all the waste that comes out that really poses huge risks

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

And that's EXACTLY what Schumacher said in the early 70s!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

I am a semi suporter of nuclear. I support it as a theoretical idea.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

To whit: "...while man now can - and does - create radioactive elements, there is nothing he can do to reduce their radioactivity once he has created them...except to try and put the radioactive substance into a safe place. But what is a safe place,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

for the enormous amounts of radioactive wastes produced by nuclear reactors?"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“there is no safe place”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Did Fukushima happen because they cut corners? Or didn't keep things up to par? Is it possible to have a truly safe reactor?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

good question. mostly they did not want to build the sea wall suggested by the principal architect.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

Well, the problem is obvious: you produce radioactive material, you can't DE-activate it, so you have to transport the material to somewhere where you just wait for it to be less dangerous.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i think thats pretty much the case, jordan”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Idiots”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“Buckminister Fuller said the best distance from a nuclear reactor is 93 million mikes away which is the distance from the Sun to Earth.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Seems Mankind is hell bent on destroying itself.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

probably not have a safe one, though there are designs, untested, of thorium reactors, that, if they break or over heat, pour their contents into a containment bunker, pre built.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Buckminster Fuller was a damned smart gentleman, i'll take his advice!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“indeed jordan, but why?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Robin that is a question for the ages”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Well, Schumacher says taht it's because of the "religion of economics."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

In those terms, and to answer just that question.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

we must have faith greed will lead us to safety

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“...I'd agree Rebecca and add Greed”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i think its because whoever 'they' are, they are facing their own demise and can't bear the thought of the rest of use living happily ever after, so they figured out how to take us with them.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

maybe.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

"The religion of economics promotes an idolatry of rapid change, unaffected by the elementary truism that a change which is not an unquestionable improvement is a doubtful blessing. The burden of proof is placed on those who take the 'ecological view

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

viewpoint': unless THEY can provide evidence of marked injury to man, the change will proceed. Common sense, on the contrary, would suggest that the burden of proof would lie on the man who wants to introduce a change: HE has to demonstrate that ...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

there CANNOT be any damaging consequences."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Greed has no sense of direction.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“greed has no sense, period.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

Well, right.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Just like in the above story about the New mexico explosion,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

like the KXL Pipeline,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Like Glyphosate,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Like DDT,

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“That is so true, Rebecca. We just keep rolling shut out there as we come up with it with no regard to the consequences...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Like the atom bomb, for that matter,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

That. You finished my sentence. :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Shit”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

Has Tawkers made you misanthropic, JB? :P

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

Okay, so it seems that no one in the forum is pro-nuclear.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“No, just the oppsite”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

i am sorta

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“knowing what is happening in the world has made me misanthropic, or at least anti-powers that be.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

@ JB, So it's just people??? :D

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

Or that, Robin.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Knowing there are those who see the world like I do fills me with hope”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

well, good.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

So now we gotta get busy and shut this nuclear shit down!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes!!!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

Seriously, though.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

solar for everybody!!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

Schumacher says in this chapter that the dangers of the so-called peaceful uses of nuclear energy pose a much greater danger than the bombs...

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

Ive listened to many a pod cast about Germany. they are, for the most part, doing GREAT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

because there is at least the CHANCE that the bombs will never be used again.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes, or wind, lots of wind in montana”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Robin my gut feeling is that there are more of us than not. Not everyone is comfortable or can afford to speak up.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

The odds are good they wont be

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Ever since you two ranked about Adobe houses it's how I envision Utopia.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

but the power plants produce unimaginably more dangerous crap.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Tawked - dunno how that turned into ranked”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“no one i know wants to hear about it.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

Robin, i totally know how you feel!!!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

Are you in montana?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes, i am”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

Wind is a great source, they are having trouble lobbying in washington and getting good press, so they are foundering a bit right now.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

Dude, we just left there. Nobody wanted to hear what we had to say, either. Go to Billings? We had an anti-Monsanto march there last year!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“billings is far away... 250 miles”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

EVERYTHING IS 250 MILES AWAY IN MONTANA!!!!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Ugh Seth that makes me so mad”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

Seth has a great brainstorm on how to make wind get better press.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

what exactly?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Robin, tell us more about the WWII Bombs while he tells that. i didn't hear about that!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

they need to join forces with solar and combine message and funding

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

the end

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“lets hear it seth”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“How do you think the lobbyists rationalize their jobs?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“That lobbyists can deter superior technology”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

they will support each other, or they should because they all have the same enemies

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

the same lobbying power can be used for both as a renewable front, not separate industries

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Who's lobbying for "The Obvious Right Thing To Do?"”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

Well, yeah.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

But that's what we're saying. Wind + solar would be that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Us?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

hahaha!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Yes, us.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Dude, we are talking today about how to build a green test house in Chattanooga. totally

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

you and robin and becky and I

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

You guys should come out and we'll do a documentary on it or something. :P

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/07/world-war-2-bombs-washed-sussex-beach_n_4554152.html here is one article”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

Wow, Robin, that is terrifying!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

Especially in the context of what we're talking about now, which is nuclear and that it's more dangerous than we can contain.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes. as terrifying as fukushima, or carlsbad? maybe not.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Well, true, but it makes those incidents MORE scary. At least in my mind. But I'm super paranoid.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

can we poke her, gently?

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Hey Jane why so quiet tonight?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“Isotopes! isotopes! get yer red hot isotopes!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Lol Robin!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

It's funny 'cause it's true!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

Oh wait, it's not really funny. :(

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

So what does Shumacher say is the answer away from this terrible idea.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

???

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

The same thing he always says!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ya still gotta laugh or you'll go crazy.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

Exactly!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

Schumacher says, like always, that we need to move away from the violent and to the non-violent.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

hello folks, sorry i'm late just got home and wanted to give some love before I head out and do drunken laundry

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“You're never fully dressed without a smile?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Rickster!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

The best kind of laundry?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“so, really, how can we accomplish something meaningful with regard to nuclear BS?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

Howdy Rick!!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

Well, nuclear was supposed to be the answer for the impending fuel crises -

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

we wouldn't need coal or oil, we'd just jump on the nuclear train and life would be rosy and happy and the air would be clean.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

(Forget about the ocean, because nothing lives down there, right?)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

hello Seth and Rebecca

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

nuclear is making all the Japanese fish glow in the dark

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“they have had clues all along the way that it wasn't such a great idea.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

yes, they have.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

I'm trying to get around to answering your question,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

but I want to say that Schumacher calls out the bullshit of scientists and economists who are/were nuclear supporters:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

they have to justify their own professions.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I have a mental image of Mr. Burns saying Eggggggsellent.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

speaking of clean air, I just got an air filter and a vacumn cleaner - all about HEPA Filters

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

can you filter out nuclear toxins?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

That's a damn good question...

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

yes with HEPA filters.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

they are rather large

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

I want one of those!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yes, Rick, with a surgical mask.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

as you could imagine

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i thought nuclear toxins were rather small”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

well a mask is rather loose around the edges

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

you would really want like a painters mask thingy

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

I always wanted a rhinestone face mask

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

ed hardy face mask

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

well, the RADIATION they give off can penetrate quite a few things

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

but the actual pieces of material are like house dust and they are very heavy

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

just look where they are on the periodic table

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

"Radiation hits our bodies like tiny bullets" says Schumacher.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

I would out douche the couchest douche at the bar

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“it's just that we've been fighting this nuke thing for so long, I'm all nuked out quite frankly, we'll never learn or win”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“My surgical mask says "My child made the honor roll at GNN High School"”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

Heres the thing as i see it

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

Jane,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i am not taking all the precautions i could, because, we can't outrun everything.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I see. But look how quickly gay marriage and pot legalization picked up steam. We got to keep on keeping on!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“..stop drop roll for nukes?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

especially if, like me, running is not an option

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

rolling might be

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

we need to use the system, as it is against itself

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

lobby for green

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

innovate green industry

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

make it so cheap you cant compete

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

USE LESS

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

in any other way

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

if you look at the price curve for solar it has almost reached parity with COAL, the cheapest fuel by far.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

Schumacher never flinches from the imperative to use less.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

He also encourages US, right here, tonight:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

He says that we can choose the direction of scientific advances and technology.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

We can't leave it to science or politicians because,

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

and coal is so cheap and has so much downward pressure on it from other energy sources that coal mines are being abandoned.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

in short, they're all bought and paid for.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

So WE have to BE the public that they're keeping a good face on for.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

We have to demand the cessation of nuclear.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“all of those "other" energy sources (polluters) need to go the way of the dodo, before we all do. cost be damned. we can surely suffer a little to ensure the survival of life on the planet.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

And we have to accept policies that ask us to be okay with using less.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

We have to be willing to cooperate.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

Say, your block is without water one day a week. Big fucking deal! Suck it up! Be happy we're making strides to heal the planet and survive!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

i agree, that is what aggravates me daily. We could use a little less or funnel more tax money into this thing, just look at Germany.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

YES!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“In the part of the documentary, the music is REALLY uplifting!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

LOL

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i'll cooperate, i hope they will hold up their end of the bargain.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“absolutely, rebecca”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

EXACTLY!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

SO what if you can't water your lawn, so what if every house doesn't have every appliance? We are talking about not shitting in our own beds, as it were. Or, in more elegant terms, ensuring our own survival and the health of our planet.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I'm still holding out hope for a stationary bike electrical generator like the professor had on Gilligan's Island.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

Seth has designs for one of those right now...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

We've gotta crowdfund that...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

RIP professor

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“me too, JB. my son says it wouldn't power much”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yes! Can we outlaw grass lawns, like, tomorrow?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

its mostly bamboo and coconuts...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

power the oven to make tacos

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

What?

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

whoo Rick, have one for me.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

with the bike generator

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

Ah. Island bike generator tacos.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

I haven't started drinking yet

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“they do make solar powered cooking thingies.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

yes, they do!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

And they work!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

Seth has also been making "rocket stoves" this winter!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

they are super awesome and can make massive heat with very little fuel because they combust twice and burn all the carbon out of the smoke in the second burn

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

so the exhaust is CLEAR!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

its a rocket mass heater

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

its a little different than ones made from coffee cans

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Seth would be the ideal handyman for a quarantined apocalyptic fallout shelter.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

if i just knew a bit of chemistry we'd be set

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

http://cdn.funkyspacemonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/biolite-stove-iphone.jpg

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

Dang, dude! That is cool!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

how much heat does it throw?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

What's the fuel source?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

it emergerged during Hurricane Sandy

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“i want one”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

i don't know details

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Guys, I have to duck out early. I'll see you all tomorrow night.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

Bye, Jordan! Thanks for playing!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“<- waiting to hear what rocket mass is.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

http://i.ebayimg.com/11/!BT(1WGgBGk~$(KGrHgoH-CgEjlLl1Ej9BKIEpt()7Q~~_35.JPG

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

here is a rocket stove

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

combine this with some mass it heats and you have a rocket mass heater

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxMTERUUERIWFhUXFxQYFRQYFxgUFxUZGhgXFxYXFBMcHSggGBomGxgYITEhJiktLi4uGB8zODMtNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGxAQGzQkHyQvLiwsLCw3LCwsLC8sLC8sLDAsNCw0LCwsMCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw0LCwsLCwsLywsLP/AABEIAKkBKQMBEQACEQE

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

The idea behind heating a mass of something - like a brich enclosure, or whatever,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

is so that the mass captures the heat.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

And then slowly releases it over several hours.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

So you don't have to continuously burn to have continuous heat.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“gotcha”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“sort of like a solar heat sink?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

I no use computers much

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

sorta

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

solid objects like concrete and stone trap temperature

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

but using a fire to release the heat

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

they can be quite large

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“on a smaller scale, i'm sure”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

right

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

we all get it

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

the features i like are that they use very little wood

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

they can re burn soot and create more hear

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

heat

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“gravestones trap heat too.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“,,and your point is Robin?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

i always carry one around with me

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“just remembering how nice it was walking through the graveyard in the evening and the stones were still warm”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

and the heat can be captured so efficiently that the exhaust can be touched

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

That's exactly how it works, except, you know, not in the cemetery.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

Oh, that's cool! And the exhaust is, what? H20

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

:) mee to

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

hot rocks are one of lifes un spoken pleasures

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“what are you a lizard or snake looking for a hearrock?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“heat?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“sometimes, jane.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

the exhaust is mostly water and CO2

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

it depends on how well its working

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

So...I mean, there is technology available that doesn't kill us all.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

And this is what Schumacher says - move froem violence toward nonviolence. Toward cooperation with nature rather than warfare against nature.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

so true.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“pretty nifty, Seth. is it expensive?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

it can be practically free

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Use the "noiseless, low-energy, elegant and economical solutions normally applied in nature

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

using found parts and recycled fire bricks

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

rather than the noisy, high-energy, brutal wasteful and clumsy solutions of our present sciences.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“very kewl, seth! its good to recycle too.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“the Dalai Lama is gonna be on Huff Post Live tomorrow for those interested”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

Definitely interested! Thanks for the tip, Jane! :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

But, what Schumacher says is a principles approach, you know?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

Guidelines. things we should ask ourselves when trying to determine if a technology is something we should adopt or not.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“what do you mean, rebecca?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

I mean that (and i think Schumacher means that),

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

we can move more slowly.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

We don't have to have this rapid acceleration of technology all the time. We don't have to have an upgrade every year.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

We can take the time to study whether DDT makes ugly babies.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

We can test the effects of GM crops before we make ourselves sick and kill all the bees.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

You know, reasonable amd responsible approaches to taking acare of the planet.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“like, "will it cause an extinction event?"”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

hahaha. That.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“tell that to the profiteers. no upgrades every year?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

Well, eactly. Economics gets in the way of good decisions.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

gotta split - laundry night beckons...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“I think high-tech is okay but you've to use discretion when you use it”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“For example, we all are using high-tech right now and couldn't have a chat without it; however things like GMO's and Agent Orange are tech that has no useful place in society”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

I agree, Seth.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

Discretion is the better part of valor. or, wait, Discretion is what we need to keep us all alive?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i think we need to quit looking on humanity as "consumers" whose obligation is to keep that bottom line healthy.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

YES!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

YES!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Well, I think humans need to myth-bust the idea that all science is good science.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

because it's not.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

We do not need to make or incorporate everything we can dream up.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Nor should we.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

The atom bomb?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Could have done without that one.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Manty Hose?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

See?

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Ironically when people say business can't be regulated they're forcing themselves to be regulated by dirty businesses that will pollute their food, air and water”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

A scourge released on society. Didn't need it!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

that is am amazing turn of phrase

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Oooh, Seth. Direct hit! I love it! By NOT speaking up, you vote with silence, as Lee Camp says!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i miss the good ol' days when products were made to last. i had a microwave that lasted over 30 years.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“moobs?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Moobs can also last 30 years..

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

But yes, Robin!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Planned obsolescence is shameful.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

Without exaggeration, it should be a crime.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

When did "thrift" stop being a moral value?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“that and "repackaging" in smaller, more expensive containers.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“agreed Rebecca”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

OMG! SO FRUSTRATING!!!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

And WHY plastic?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

I cannot live a plastic-free life! (though I want to)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

*pout

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Definitely when you say the govt or regulating body can't do something, we just now empowered the company to be their own regulator, and we all know how that ends up :-)”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“YESSSSS!!!!”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

@seth; are you perchance related to the infamous John Hochman?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

We do know how that ends up, but we keep allowing it. WTF, humans???

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“It's kind of like telling a bunch of ten year olds to behave, not cause any trouble and put themselves in bed on time. The chances of that are between zero and negative infinity”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Okay, meat packaging plants, make sure your workers are safe and that the food is clean. We trust you!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i began noticing long ago... 40 years... that what is "in style" was becoming more and more simplified and, yes, cheaper constructed, slowly, so maybe we wouldn't notice.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“plastic oceans with plastic face people using plastic credit cards”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“can't get around plastic for sure”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

cheers to my Sethy brothers.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“I'm not Seth...by the way that's a cool name you've lol”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“LMAO”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

we are all cutting up because the talk time is over, btw

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“In the Graduate, they said plastics was the business to get into. Joan Rivers certainly has taken stock ;-)”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

So, the takeaway from this chapter is: "No degree of prosperity could justify the accumulation of highly toxic substances which nobody knows how to make "safe" and which remain an incalculable danger to the whole of creation for historical or even

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

geological ages."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ugh, tho. i really wanted a concrete answer to theproblem of nuclear presence.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

Well, the answer is, just say no.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

We HAVE to say no.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

and shoot the rest of it into space

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

And we have to stand up to politicians, economists and scientists to do so.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

into the sun

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

It's hard, but we can direct the use of technology.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

Becky is right. the times they are a changin

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“of course”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“do they care what we say?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

they care in alot of things

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“hooray for the sun!”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

we need a critical mass, and for that we need awareness

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

tell your friends

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

WE care. I guess the problem is making THEM care.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

Yes. tell everyone!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

And start getting by eith less.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“oh, i tell them, alright. -D”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

Good on you!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

Try experiments, you know.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

Try cutting out one little thing in your life.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

When you don't die, you can tell your friends how you didn't die. ;D

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“People need to start caring before it affects them”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

Yes!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

Remember, too: It's not your fault you were born and live here and now.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

YOU didn't make these problems.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

But you have just as much say as anyone else in how you use resources.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“oh, yes, i make all my clothes and used recycled materials. no TV just computer. no cell phone.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Awesome, Robin! You are making a statement by making those choices!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

And you're keeping skills alive!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“nope. but we need to protect the children.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

Yes, we do.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

but you can't control anyone else, either. You can just live the best way you know how and set a good example,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

and you can keep talking (and Tawking).

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“shut off 1/2 of my house in the winter. no heat”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“people think i'm nuts. probably am”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

But, it's OKAY. AND, you don't die, right? That totally helps people see what's possible.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

When I went to Honduras for peace Corps, people said all kinds of stupid things, "Oh, I CAN'T live without my..."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

I hated that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

YES, YOU FUCKING CAN!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“You can't control them but you can push them in the right direction. When there's enough of a groundswell, they'll come around...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i like this Tawking!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“good for you, Rebecca! my sister was in the peace corps too”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes. they should be interested, even if only to save some money.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Peace Corps makes you weird. ;P Like Tawking. But it's nice.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

We can make these changes.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

I don't have all the answers, i just want to do better. i think many people are liek that, and I think the momentum is growing.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ihpe you're right rebecca”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i believe it is growing”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

:) See. We can do this!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

We just have to keep going.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

And shutting down nuclear is a good first step!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“...try to join the Peace Corps, I wasn't bi-lingual so they said no”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“Jane... they didn't want me, either”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

There are other organizations that aren't so bureaucratic.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

Frankly, it was way too much like Catch-22. Working for the government is, of course, working for the government...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

Look around, you can find other programs taht work on specific initiatives and will send you for like 6 months or so.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“who is good to start with for trying to shut down nuclear?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“a nun and 2 old guys....lol”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“an imprisoned nun?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

I'm not sure where to start. I mean, probably EPA.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

Let's look around some and we'll post links to anti-nuclear orgs on the Facebook Event page for this tawk???

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

How does that sound?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“that is soooo outrageous”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

It is. that's a crazy story.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“they are the government, yes?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

Yeah. Poor EPA. but they know good and well that nuclear is damaging, so it's good to get your two cents in with them.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i listened to a phone conf with the head of epa. she was not addressing 'uncomfortable' questions.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

Yeah, the do that...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Politicians.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

*sigh.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“they sure do.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Robin, friend me and I'll add you to the group!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i am following you on Tawkers”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“sweet, how do i do that?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

Look up Rebecca Ann Westbrook-Toker. I'm the only one.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

Or my email, which is caradelsol@gmail.com.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ah... facebook?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

Yes! i should have said that. Sorry.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“okay, thank you very much, i will”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

Great!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

Thank you all so much!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

This was fun!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

Jane and Robin, thanks for sticking it out to the end.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes, it was!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“thank you both!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

Jordan, Rich, Seth 1 and Seth 2, we just love you guys!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“have a great evening!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jane Smith

“gn all”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

I hope you all have peaceful, non-irradiated dreams!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Great Tawk from what I saw...have a goodnight!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

As an addendum, our "homework" of finding links for anti-nuclear sites and petitions is turning up some great stuff (thanks in no small part to Robin).

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

Here are some links:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

http://earthdirectory.net/nuclear

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Good analysis and mythbusting here: http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Facebook this shit: https://www.facebook.com/pages/RadChick-Radiation-Research-Mitigation/260610960640885

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

and here: https://www.facebook.com/nonukesnirs

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

And, visit this site for plenty of info on actions in your area and petitions you can sign: http://www.nirs.org/

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

And, while you're at it, protest the KXL Pipeline here: http://action.priceofoil.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=15013

Forum · 182

Forum· 182 comments

41 visitors

Tawkers AdminFeb 24, 2014, 6:38 PM★ Spotlighted

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:00 AM★ Spotlighted

hiya! =D

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

no prob. i did too

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

oh, good, i was wondering

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:02 AM★ Spotlighted

Hello hello!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:02 AM★ Spotlighted

"small is beautiful"? nuclear? none... is beautiful!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:02 AM★ Spotlighted

No where else I'd rather be

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:03 AM★ Spotlighted

<-- waiting to be enlightened

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:05 AM

a horrendous tale. outrageous.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

there is no safe place

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

Did Fukushima happen because they cut corners? Or didn't keep things up to par? Is it possible to have a truly safe reactor?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

i think thats pretty much the case, jordan

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

Idiots

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

Buckminister Fuller said the best distance from a nuclear reactor is 93 million mikes away which is the distance from the Sun to Earth.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

Seems Mankind is hell bent on destroying itself.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:08 AM★ Spotlighted

indeed jordan, but why?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:08 AM★ Spotlighted

Robin that is a question for the ages

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

i think its because whoever 'they' are, they are facing their own demise and can't bear the thought of the rest of use living happily ever after, so they figured out how to take us with them.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

...I'd agree Rebecca and add Greed

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

Greed has no sense of direction.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

greed has no sense, period.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:11 AM★ Spotlighted

That is so true, Rebecca. We just keep rolling shut out there as we come up with it with no regard to the consequences...

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:12 AM★ Spotlighted

Shit

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:13 AM★ Spotlighted

No, just the oppsite

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:13 AM★ Spotlighted

knowing what is happening in the world has made me misanthropic, or at least anti-powers that be.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

Knowing there are those who see the world like I do fills me with hope

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:14 AM

yes, JB, but i think there are not enough of us.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

yes!!!!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:15 AM★ Spotlighted

Robin my gut feeling is that there are more of us than not. Not everyone is comfortable or can afford to speak up.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:15 AM★ Spotlighted

yes, or wind, lots of wind in montana

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

Ever since you two ranked about Adobe houses it's how I envision Utopia.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

no one i know wants to hear about it.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

Tawked - dunno how that turned into ranked

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:17 AM

Robin why do you think that is?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:17 AM

did you see all the bombs washed up on shore in england from WWII, i reckon?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

yes, i am

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:18 AM

of course they are. they doen't have the money behind them

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

Ugh Seth that makes me so mad

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

billings is far away... 250 miles

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:19 AM

true!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:20 AM★ Spotlighted

How do you think the lobbyists rationalize their jobs?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:20 AM★ Spotlighted

lets hear it seth

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:20 AM★ Spotlighted

That lobbyists can deter superior technology

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:21 AM

i wonder where i saw that. i'll have to check a bit.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:21 AM★ Spotlighted

Who's lobbying for "The Obvious Right Thing To Do?"

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

Us?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/07/world-war-2-bombs-washed-sussex-beach_n_4554152.html here is one article

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:23 AM★ Spotlighted

Hey Jane why so quiet tonight?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:23 AM

Omg IN!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

yes. as terrifying as fukushima, or carlsbad? maybe not.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

Isotopes! isotopes! get yer red hot isotopes!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

Lol Robin!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:26 AM★ Spotlighted

ya still gotta laugh or you'll go crazy.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:26 AM★ Spotlighted

You're never fully dressed without a smile?

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:27 AM★ Spotlighted

Rickster!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:27 AM★ Spotlighted

so, really, how can we accomplish something meaningful with regard to nuclear BS?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

they have had clues all along the way that it wasn't such a great idea.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

I have a mental image of Mr. Burns saying Eggggggsellent.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:30 AM

justify and secure their positions

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes, Rick, with a surgical mask.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

i thought nuclear toxins were rather small

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:30 AM

i'm still here Jordan

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

My surgical mask says "My child made the honor roll at GNN High School"

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

it's just that we've been fighting this nuke thing for so long, I'm all nuked out quite frankly, we'll never learn or win

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

i am not taking all the precautions i could, because, we can't outrun everything.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

I see. But look how quickly gay marriage and pot legalization picked up steam. We got to keep on keeping on!

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

..stop drop roll for nukes?

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:33 AM

duck and cover worked on the ittle kids back in the day

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:33 AM

some states are back tracking on gay marriage. >:[

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:34 AM

lol....rick

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

all of those "other" energy sources (polluters) need to go the way of the dodo, before we all do. cost be damned. we can surely suffer a little to ensure the survival of life on the planet.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

absolutely, rebecca

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

i'll cooperate, i hope they will hold up their end of the bargain.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

In the part of the documentary, the music is REALLY uplifting!

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

I'm still holding out hope for a stationary bike electrical generator like the professor had on Gilligan's Island.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

me too, JB. my son says it wouldn't power much

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes! Can we outlaw grass lawns, like, tomorrow?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

they do make solar powered cooking thingies.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:40 AM

Robin, maybe he's not pedaling hard enough.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:40 AM

maybe not, jordan. i think batteries may pose some problem, as well.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:40 AM

Lol

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:40 AM

sweet!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:41 AM

good to hear that.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:41 AM★ Spotlighted

Seth would be the ideal handyman for a quarantined apocalyptic fallout shelter.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:41 AM

what is rocket mass?

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:42 AM★ Spotlighted

i want one

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:43 AM★ Spotlighted

<- waiting to hear what rocket mass is.

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:43 AM★ Spotlighted

Guys, I have to duck out early. I'll see you all tomorrow night.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:43 AM

g'nite JB

Jordan BirnbaumFeb 25, 2014, 2:44 AM

You're all so cool.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:44 AM

see ya Jb

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:44 AM

hmmm. that did not work for me.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:45 AM

me neither

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:45 AM

ok. just so its not 'dangerous' eh?

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:45 AM

no link there

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:45 AM★ Spotlighted

gotcha

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:45 AM★ Spotlighted

sort of like a solar heat sink?

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:45 AM

hehehhehehe

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:46 AM★ Spotlighted

on a smaller scale, i'm sure

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:46 AM★ Spotlighted

gravestones trap heat too.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:46 AM★ Spotlighted

,,and your point is Robin?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:47 AM★ Spotlighted

just remembering how nice it was walking through the graveyard in the evening and the stones were still warm

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:47 AM★ Spotlighted

what are you a lizard or snake looking for a hearrock?

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:48 AM★ Spotlighted

heat?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:48 AM★ Spotlighted

sometimes, jane.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:49 AM

I like taking pics in the graveyard...lots of great stone work...and some people actually think outside the conventional gravestone box and get really crative in their choosing of markers

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:49 AM★ Spotlighted

pretty nifty, Seth. is it expensive?

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:51 AM★ Spotlighted

the Dalai Lama is gonna be on Huff Post Live tomorrow for those interested

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:51 AM★ Spotlighted

very kewl, seth! its good to recycle too.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:52 AM

yes, i am interested, thank you Jane.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:52 AM

sure...I was excited to see that too

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:53 AM★ Spotlighted

what do you mean, rebecca?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:54 AM★ Spotlighted

like, "will it cause an extinction event?"

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:55 AM★ Spotlighted

tell that to the profiteers. no upgrades every year?

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 2:55 AM★ Spotlighted

I think high-tech is okay but you've to use discretion when you use it

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 2:56 AM★ Spotlighted

For example, we all are using high-tech right now and couldn't have a chat without it; however things like GMO's and Agent Orange are tech that has no useful place in society

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:56 AM★ Spotlighted

i think we need to quit looking on humanity as "consumers" whose obligation is to keep that bottom line healthy.

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 2:59 AM★ Spotlighted

Ironically when people say business can't be regulated they're forcing themselves to be regulated by dirty businesses that will pollute their food, air and water

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 2:59 AM★ Spotlighted

moobs?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 2:59 AM★ Spotlighted

i miss the good ol' days when products were made to last. i had a microwave that lasted over 30 years.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:00 AM

they'll ahve human being some kind of planned obsolence next

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:01 AM★ Spotlighted

agreed Rebecca

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:01 AM★ Spotlighted

that and "repackaging" in smaller, more expensive containers.

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 3:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Definitely when you say the govt or regulating body can't do something, we just now empowered the company to be their own regulator, and we all know how that ends up :-)

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:01 AM

"new and improved"

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:01 AM★ Spotlighted

YESSSSS!!!!

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 3:02 AM★ Spotlighted

It's kind of like telling a bunch of ten year olds to behave, not cause any trouble and put themselves in bed on time. The chances of that are between zero and negative infinity

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 3:03 AM★ Spotlighted

I'm not Seth...by the way that's a cool name you've lol

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:03 AM★ Spotlighted

i began noticing long ago... 40 years... that what is "in style" was becoming more and more simplified and, yes, cheaper constructed, slowly, so maybe we wouldn't notice.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:03 AM★ Spotlighted

plastic oceans with plastic face people using plastic credit cards

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:03 AM★ Spotlighted

can't get around plastic for sure

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 3:04 AM★ Spotlighted

LMAO

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 3:04 AM★ Spotlighted

In the Graduate, they said plastics was the business to get into. Joan Rivers certainly has taken stock ;-)

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:04 AM

ya, =[ this was a good one.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:05 AM

,,,true that Seth 2

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:06 AM★ Spotlighted

ugh, tho. i really wanted a concrete answer to theproblem of nuclear presence.

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:06 AM

..well point Rebecca...thanks for the sum up

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:06 AM★ Spotlighted

of course

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:06 AM★ Spotlighted

do they care what we say?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:07 AM★ Spotlighted

hooray for the sun!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:08 AM★ Spotlighted

oh, i tell them, alright. -D

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:08 AM

less is bes'

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:08 AM

experiments?

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 3:09 AM★ Spotlighted

People need to start caring before it affects them

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:09 AM★ Spotlighted

oh, yes, i make all my clothes and used recycled materials. no TV just computer. no cell phone.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:10 AM★ Spotlighted

nope. but we need to protect the children.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:10 AM★ Spotlighted

shut off 1/2 of my house in the winter. no heat

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:11 AM★ Spotlighted

people think i'm nuts. probably am

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:11 AM

yep

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:12 AM★ Spotlighted

i like this Tawking!

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 3:12 AM★ Spotlighted

You can't control them but you can push them in the right direction. When there's enough of a groundswell, they'll come around...

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:13 AM★ Spotlighted

yes. they should be interested, even if only to save some money.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:13 AM★ Spotlighted

good for you, Rebecca! my sister was in the peace corps too

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:14 AM

she started out weird. ;D

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:14 AM★ Spotlighted

ihpe you're right rebecca

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:15 AM★ Spotlighted

...try to join the Peace Corps, I wasn't bi-lingual so they said no

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:15 AM★ Spotlighted

i believe it is growing

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:15 AM★ Spotlighted

Jane... they didn't want me, either

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:16 AM

..i'm in good company then...lolRobin

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:16 AM★ Spotlighted

who is good to start with for trying to shut down nuclear?

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:17 AM★ Spotlighted

a nun and 2 old guys....lol

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:17 AM★ Spotlighted

an imprisoned nun?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:18 AM★ Spotlighted

that is soooo outrageous

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:18 AM★ Spotlighted

they are the government, yes?

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:19 AM

..seriously.....those are our ballysy people nowadays

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:19 AM★ Spotlighted

i listened to a phone conf with the head of epa. she was not addressing 'uncomfortable' questions.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:19 AM

ok. i'll try

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:20 AM★ Spotlighted

they sure do.

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:20 AM★ Spotlighted

sweet, how do i do that?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:21 AM★ Spotlighted

i am following you on Tawkers

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:22 AM★ Spotlighted

ah... facebook?

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:23 AM★ Spotlighted

okay, thank you very much, i will

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:23 AM

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:23 AM★ Spotlighted

yes, it was!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:23 AM★ Spotlighted

thank you both!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:24 AM★ Spotlighted

have a great evening!

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:24 AM★ Spotlighted

gn all

Seth HochmanFeb 25, 2014, 3:25 AM★ Spotlighted

Great Tawk from what I saw...have a goodnight!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:26 AM

you too!

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:26 AM

g'nite, seth H

Robin MaynardFeb 25, 2014, 3:27 AM

lovely evening to you, Jane

Jane SmithFeb 25, 2014, 3:30 AM

you too Robin