Rebecca Westbrook Toker

Host

Small is Beautiful Part II Chapter 5

Mar 1, 2014·29 visitors

Seth Westbrook Toker

Cohost

Stage· 500 messages

Mar 1, 2014

Green Techie Seth Westbrook Toker sits in for usual host Green Business Guru Aaron Meyers, as we dive into EF Schumacher's seminal work, Small is Beautiful: Economics as if People Mattered. This week, we continue discussing Resources, exploring "Technology with a Human Face." Can we redirect our efforts toward salvation, not destruction? Come by and share your thoughts! nFree PDF version of Small is Beautiful at http://www.ee.iitb.ac.in/student/~pdarshan/SmallIsBeautifulSchumacher.pdf

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

i is early this time

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yay, rick! stay awake now. = ]”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

staying awake is half the battle

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

i try to take naps in the subway - but then i wake up and see crazy people and remind myself it is not a good idea to do that

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

hi Robin

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“not good to wake up?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

some crazy people on the NYC subway are really crazy - and the cold drives them into the train

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i bet it does. very little problem like that here in Montana.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

showtime!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Hi, guys!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

So nice to see you!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Seth will be along in a minute - he's putting the 2-year-old to bed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

hi Rebecca and Seth

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yay! hi rebecca and Seth!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

I hope Aaron comes along in a bit - he was off on a work conference this week.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Hi I'm here but dealing with something. I'll be back in 15.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

hi Jordan

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

And i hope JB comes back.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

i decided to not go out to the bar tonight

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

And i hope we can make it worth your sacrifice, Rick! :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Wow, so we've had quite a week in terms of researching stuff about stopping nukes and discussing how to make a better world

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

i have a handle at the house

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

prepared

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

soso Michael Jackson

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ready for the better world part.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

"heal the world" "children are our future" (whoops wrong crackhead)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

hahahaha! most of that has come on the Facebook event page. Be my friend and you can add your comments.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

Also, petition the Shit out of people to stop the KXL.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

here is a link:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

http://action.priceofoil.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=15013

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“for sure, every chance i get. what a terrible idea that is.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

You might be referring to nukes, in which case,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

you can get started here: http://www.nirs.org/

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

(Which is a link Robin sent me in the first place - she's our A student this week :))

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“hey hey”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

hey, Buddy!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

Been missing ya!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

How was your tiny vacation?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“Hello, Aaron”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“exhausting”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“so today is nuclear energy?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“true?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

No, Monday was nuclear energy, but we're doing some housekeeping.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

We had homework, which was to find ways to protest nuclear proliferation.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

So we were revisiting that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“ah”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

This week it's wonderful:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Technology with a Human Face

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“proliferation of nuclear power or weapons?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Any. All.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

We decided we're not actually fans.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

others might be,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

but our crew was aligned with Schumacher.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“=D ya, not actually !”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“well the best way to protest nuclear power is to turn off your light if you're in the service area”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

Excellent point, Sir!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

Well taken!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“and as i see it, the actual problem with nuclear power is that the waste is forever”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“even if it is very little waste, in terms of waste over time, its the dirtiest thing around”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

Dude.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

It's so irresponsible.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i am happy to say... Montana is a "non-agreement state"”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Robin, i want to ask for your opinion: I recently left Montana and came to the conclusion that the KXL was ridiculous because, if they're going to drill anyway, why not put the infrastructure in montana instead of piping it across the country?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

It's not even logical.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

i mean, obviously the ideal would be to STOP burning fossil fuels, but the KXL is like adding arsenic to your McDonalds hamburger.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“none of it makes any sense to me. i think we don't want it at all, thank you very much.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

Fair enough.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“its responsible in a short timeline”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“irresponsible in a long one”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“deadliest too”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“but, aaron, there is no short timeline, really. is there?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

As for nukes:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

I forgot to put As for Nukes above the comments. Meh.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“meh, the shortness of the timeline depends on the perspective of the person”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“kxl product is not even staying in the states, is it? going to china or something?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“and yes its going to China, in the end i think KXL makes something like 2000 jobs, thats it”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

Dear, God!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

That makes it seem like punching ourselves in the face!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“and manages to run oil over the most important watershed in american farmland”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“and not permanent jobs, as i understand it.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i also worry about the apparently inevitable leaks and spills”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“at the end of the day its only getting a push because going in front of the GOP and saying green not oil is like running into a synagogue and screaming nazi”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“they did apply to use thinner steal than normal”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

I am screaming right now. I didn't know about that part.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ugh, ugh. cuts to safety again.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

still pondering biofuel

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

We will get there, Rick! Aaron and Seth are the biofuel guys!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“what about biofuel?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

has there been any discussion on biofuel - that algae fuel stuff

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“i got some experience with ethonol and switchgrass”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

instead of gas

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“but thats about it”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

i saw some new algae that can substitute as gas

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

I heard about that, too, just a blip. made it seem like it was really far off...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“thats true”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

i saw a video

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

if you can find the link, dude, drop it on us. You can even put it at the end of the tawk tomorrow or something.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

ok, i go look now

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

So...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

Technology with a Human Face

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

What's that all about?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“danged if i know, robots?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

Hahaha! i hope not! Androids are creepy! I wouldn't even let the teddy Ruxpin sleep in my room!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs0QZJ0rea0

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

Thanks, Rick!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“well look at the overall assumption”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“lordy no! i wouldn't either.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“that the world is shaped by technology”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“first, true or false, do we buy that”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Well, yes.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

I mean, even our THOUGHTS are shaped by technology, our relationships

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“we can't avoid it to some degree”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“well if we buy that, and an assumption which shumacher doesnt make which i think has to be asked”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“is if technology is becoming more inhuman”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“which he seems to think it is”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“is that a result of us being less human”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“or humane”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

I think it's a lack of perspective.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

And yes, a little loss of humanity.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

because technology grew and continues to grow too fast for us to keep it in perspective, to adapt to it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“maybe a result of our inculcation by our 'economic system'”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“well thats an interesting idea robin brings up”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“if there was any money in it, we could expand our humaneness.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

Indeed. Our systems and paradigms - many of them ideas we don't even know that we've accepted and act through - compel us to act in ways that aren't strictly in the majority's best interest. Or even our own sometimes.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“because less economic 'well off' societies also tended to be less technologically evolved”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“and perhaps, happier and nice to each other.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“theres always money involved”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“so lets explore that point, define humanness”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“well, i was striving for "humane" ness. being nicer, compassionate, etc.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

I agree with you.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

I mean, we could get into tidgy semantics, but the idea is the most important part.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“well this gets interesting though”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

The definition of humanness?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“how so, aaron?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“because i genuinely believe the more capitalistic development groups tend to be the most effective”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“when it comes to filling a compassionate mission”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

Ah, taht is an interesting point.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

Yes.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

I listened to something AWESOME about that recently, but i can't remember where it came from. Maybe This American Life.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“Beckys seen this alot”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“but heres the reasoning”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“a traditional non profit developing organization has a simple pattern”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“get donations do work”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“correct?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yep”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“but lets thing about what happens when that occurs”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“first, you've seperated who pays you from who you service”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“so the way you stay operating is to please those who pay you”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“not those you do things for”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ok”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“which because they are donating, are likely the exact opposite of those youd be helping”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“with the least ability to understand the wants of those you service”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“maybe so”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“but it gets worse”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i'm sure it does”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“because now extend the implications of the marketing”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“it also leads to messages that encourage donations”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“and whats easier to message, one big thing, or a lot of little things”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“one big thing”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“please continue”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“but yet, because developing nations tend to be mostly small villages, the actual problems are diverse and widespread”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“whereas a company, or a foundation that actually makes something people in the area need, or sets up infrastructure in the place to make something they genuinely need”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“they are motivated to listen to the population they help, or they go out of business”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

If you get a chance, you should listen to this episode - Act 1. it's about Give Directly, a new approach to philanthropy.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“the key is whether or not the need is genuine”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“and i think that genuine aspect, is the human face”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

When we think about foreign companies going into underdeveloped places,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

we often have a negative image, and rightly so -

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

but it's not the kinds of businesses Aaron describes.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

The typical situation is abusive - it's a company that goes in to take advantage of cheap materials and labor and lax regulation to make a product that the locals don't need and/or can't afford.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“episode from what? so i can find it.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

Oh, shoot! Sorry! Here's the link: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/503/i-was-just-trying-to-help

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

BAck to finish Aaron's point:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“which if you keep doing, is actually a way to build a society economically that is sustainable”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“makes sense”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“and lets you sell them bigger things down the road”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“so over a long enough timeline, is more profitable”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“and now my fingers are tired”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I'm late, anyone wanna catch me up to what we are discussing?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

sex and porn

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“LOL I think im in the wrong chat...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

Ah, Rick - you scared one off!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i was with you, aaron, until you said, 'sell them bigger things down the road'. to the developing nation? or the donors?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

To the people in the developing country.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

ostensibly because the economy slowly gains momentum because of a business that genuinely meets a local need.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“the developing nation, a people with filled needs develop bigger needs”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“Becca G. you could read the comments. =]”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“if you put food in their belly they have time for art”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“art makes money”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i suppose, if they were "on their feet", but let's not take undue advantage of them and sell 'em stuff they don't need.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“just as a broad example”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“well yeah, its all genuine need, thats the human face of it all”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

Well, the other aspect to the human face part of technology

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

is satisfyin gwork.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

satisfying work.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

Having more people engaged in actual production instead of just doing busy work.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

And reassigning prestige to the production workers, instead of just to the busy worker with the fanciest title.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

Schumacher calculates that only 3% of the population is engaged in actual production.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

But prestige is rewarded in an inverse relationship to your proxin=mity to actual production.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“3%?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

And that was back in the early 70s.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“how are we defining "production"?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

production, according to Schumacher, is

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

"Rather less than one-half of the ntotal population of this country is, as they say, gainfully occupied, and about none-third of these are actual producers in agriculture, mining, construction, nand industry"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

"I do mean actual producers, not people who tell other people nwhat to do, or account for the past, or plan for the future, or distribute what nother people have produced."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Uh oh, does it turn out that most people are wasting their time?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

Yes.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

But it's even more complicated than that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

Hold on, I got that 3% thing backward.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

"The extent to which modern technology has taken over the work of human nhands may be illustrated as follows. We may ask how much of 'total social ntime' - that is to say, the time all of us have together, twenty-four hours a day neach - is actually

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

engaged in real production"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

"In other words, rather less than one-sixth of the ntotal population is engaged in actual production; on average, each of them nsupports five others beside himself, of which two are gainfully employed on nthings other than real production and three

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

are not gainfully employed."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

(This is the whole population, including the elderly, children, invalids, etc.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

Whoa! Invalid is not a PR word.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

People with disabilities. pardon me.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

"Now, na fully employed person, allowing for holidays, sickness, and other absence, nspends about one-fifth of his total time on his job."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

"It follows that the nproportion of 'total social time' spent on actual production - in the narrow nsense in which I am using the term - is, roughly, one-fifth of one-third of none-half, i.e. 33 per cent"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

Um, no, 3.3% Sorry.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

"The other 96 per cent of 'total social time' is spent nin other ways, including sleeping, eating, watching television, doing jobs nthat are not directly productive, or just killing time more or less humanely."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Okay, so does that make sense?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I think this is what happens when things get too big. In a small kibbutz, there's no where to hide.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“what are the rest of the lazy bums doing to justify their existence?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“That numbers only going down then, right. Due to technological advances.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Being an eye doc, I don't build or grow things but feel like I am contributing to peoples well being in another way”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

I would agree!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“yeah, 3 percent of the time is productive time”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yeah, what about the provision of services?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

Service industry is a "soft" industry.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“This should be a good thing....people have more time to live as they please. But I think the issue is how to fairly divide the goods.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Well, taht's exactly what Schumacher says:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

He says we need to multiply the social time we spend in production sixfold

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

and not produce MORE than we do now.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

By increasing it soxfold, we don't ask the producers to work more, we ask everyone to work a little bit, so everyone gets to feel the satisfaction of productive work.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

Including children, etc.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

We're not talking about exploitation,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

but about slowing down the pace of life enough to allow more people to take part in what Schumacher describes as essential activities for the human soul - productive work activities.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“we're talking about 'right work' a satisfying endeavor.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:56 AM

EXACTLY!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

Not "Right to work" which is just worker exploitation. (We've got you pegged, GOP!!!!)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

I mean, if we didn't work so many hours, our kids wouldn't have to be in kid jail for so many hours.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:57 AM

and more siestas

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

We could take our kids to work with us occasionally so they could spend time, maybe help out, maybe learn more.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

And what is presented is incredibly Utopian - admittedly.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

he thinks if we all pitched in to do the work we need to survive and to have an easy-enough life,

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Plus think about the advancement of ideas if people had the time to think...”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

then we could spend extra time actually ENJOYING life - fulfilling the self.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

Work is one part of fulfillment, but are, leisure, socializing...all those things count, too.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

i think that is a huge loss of potential right there jordan

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Unfortunately, you can only afford to find work that fulfills you (unless you're lucky) and do all the other things in your spare time...if you're wealthy.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

that's pretty shitty.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

And, as Schumacher says, it's not doing us any favors.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

So,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

he defends his right to the Utopian ideal by saying, hey, we gotta be brave enough to fream the dream,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

because,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

"Taking stock, we can say that we possess a vast accumulation of new nknowledge, splendid scientific techniques to increase it further, and immense experience in its application. All this is truth of a kind. This truthful knowledge, as such, does not

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

commit us to a technology of gigantism, supersonic speed, violence, and the destruction of human work-enjoyment. The use we have made of our knowledge is only one of its possible uses and, as is now becoming ever more apparent, often an unwise

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

and destructive use."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

So there!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

our BS has been called.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Free education would make it easier”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Everyone needs a background in computer science/technology in order for smaller communities to reap the benefits”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Agreed about education. Seth wants you to explain about the computer comment.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

But i think i get ya!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

ballet and computer technology

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Dude, I'm not even joking!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“lots of amish places”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

thats my feeling Aaron

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

Balance your mind and body, Bro!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

amish ballet and jewish computer technology

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

That. I want that!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

(Now i am joking)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“LOL”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

happy mardi gras!!!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

To all! Yes!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“how they make those crazy fireplaces ill never understand”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“its voodoo”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

It's the work of the Lord, Bro. Don't question.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I hear you, but to enjoy the technological advances of the modern world....”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“How can I work only 1.2 days per week if no one can operate the fancy eye scan spec-printer”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

Hahahaha!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

Yeah, i'm not sure about the role of specialists.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

I'm also a specialist.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

I'm a teacher.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

I don't want to work only 1.2 days a week...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Somewhere out there lies the perfect balance of technology and nature.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“theres the beauty, Becca... job sharing.. share the wealth of satisfaction in a job well done!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

Well, that's what Schumacher says.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I just dont want to end up half robot....”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

And I believe it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

And he basically says it's our job to find it.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

like we arnt now, with all of our repetitive tasks???

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

<---Becca

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:07 AM

Scale back. use technology when appropriate, not ALL THE TECHNOLOGY ALL THE TIME.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“well you have to remember becky, shumacher says social time in production”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“two different things”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“not social time in place of production”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

Good point!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:08 AM

Elaborate, please. :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“well re read the statements”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

But I put them in the wrong order.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“if hes trying expand social time in production sixfold”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“that its not expanding production”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“or collapsing it”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“hes shooting for 1.2 days of the work week that is actually spent socially”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“thats my read of the argument anyways”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

I see that!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

And the rest of the time, you work, but by yourself.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

maybe for yourself.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Grow your own food.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Learn to knit.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Things like that?

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“yes”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Homebrew diesel for your car -

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

which you would have time to do if you were ever home...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

Actually, don't do that.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Shear the sheep”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

massage the pigs...

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

make your own soap

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Collect the eggs”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

boil the tallow

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:11 AM

Hang the laundry out on the line.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

You guys may be joking, but I'm thinking of how much satisfaction I get when i do these things.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

Except that dog thing.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

silly aside we can all appreciate the idea of free time spend doing things for ourselves and neighbors.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

I love working with students, or even planning for classes, but I also love doing the real work it takes to live. I love the danged chickens!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Floss the teeth”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

Dude, and if I had more time, I would DEF floss the teeth.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Like this!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

hahahahahaaaaaa!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“man i loved the chickens when i had them, too”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:13 AM

That settles it, folks!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Commune.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

now i want some fried chickens

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

With the WIFI!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“I do think we are describing happier lives”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i believer you're right!”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

thats part of it too rick

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“mmm fried chicken”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

And WIFI!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

mmmmm.... some mustard on them biscuits...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

wifi fried chicken

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:14 AM

Mmmm hmmm.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

Enough with the Slingblade!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

(sling blade)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“mustard?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Some of you may be closer to this lifestyle than me. How did you get there?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Do you want to enjoy chicken for one dinner, or eggs for breakfast every day?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

Well Becca

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

You only eat the roosters, JB. ;D

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

some of us are super poorish

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i did not eat my chickens.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

and need to do these things to save money

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

(I do not eat my chickens, either)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“LIke, the majority of us, lol.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i live outside a smallish city.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Please, the closest I ever got to this kind of living was visiting a petting zoo for my nieces fifth birthday.”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I feel like for me the lack of funds is a barrier. (Land acquisition, etc)”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

it depends on your situation...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

I grew up more like that, and i like it. makes me feel useful.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

where you live and funds etc.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

I've spent my adult life trying to get back to that.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

And we're doing it in small steps.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“I think its also alittle inherently false to say that you have to go be a forrest living hippy to be fufilled Becca”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

We're reducing consumption.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:17 AM

So true Aaron

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“its more chasing fufillment and making sure that you and those you work with are doing things that are fufilling, and that if you were acting as one person, are things youd still choose”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Ok Aaron, you dont have to be that, but I might, LOL”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

hell, i realized this morning I had only had one shower this week. Not that that's the best way to go, i'm just saying, when you push out the boundaries of what you think you need,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:18 AM

you find you need a lot less.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:19 AM

if i were not a teacher, i would not be happy.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“What is this "shower" you speak of?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

i have to take a shower a day or i would small like funk

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

that thing they do to you some time with the brushes and hoses and stinging powder?

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

some people do that voluntarily.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Backpacking is a great way to open your eyes to what is really necessary for survival”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:20 AM

Exactly!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“what/who do you teach rebecca?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

EVERYTHING!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

Hahahaha!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

My degrees are SPED and ELED,

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

Cheers Aaron, good to see your virtual self.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Aaron Meyers

“i wanna go shower”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

but I teach fitness, nutrition, algebra, painting - whatever anyone wants to know!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ok, so what is that?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

Special Ed and Elementary Ed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“very cool”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

Thanks!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“It can be great aaron but also insurance companies, and i do not own my own practice so sometimes forced to see pts in 15min...its very frustrating”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

I feel your frustration, Becca!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

i was not pleased with working in the public system.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:22 AM

I felt it kept me from doing the best I know.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

As soon as I got brave enough to work for myself (and occasionally others who have similar values), I got a lot happier.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

Keep on keeping on!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Thats how I feel about most aspects of society”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“a bit stultifying?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“yes robin lol”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

You may not be able to do it now, but you'll be able to break free.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“but there is a reason it is done the way it is done: profit margin”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

Exactly.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i'm so tired of the sanctity of the profit margin”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:25 AM

but, hey - you'll find your way!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

You can play the game differently.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

Schumacher just told us so!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Or die trying!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Anyone wanna start bartering?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

Hell, yes!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“I got free eye exams over here!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

I got fitness classes!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i would love to see vast sectors of our society play the game differently.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes, barter!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

Well, I'm about to start and experiment.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

Inspired by my friend Sarah and her learning co-op

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

and also by my friend Brian with his fishing business,

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:27 AM

I'm about to start a new round of classes on a gift economy model.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:28 AM

I don't know that it will work, but I want to try.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“you give stuff to someone? then what?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Like that Radiohead album!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:28 AM

What, JB?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

I give classes, and people pay what they can.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

If it's $1, it's $1.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“They give something back?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Pay what you want, including nothing.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

Yeah.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

maybe barter items.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“oh, i like that”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:29 AM

there is also the semi complex economic theory of pot0latching

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

I figure, if I'm getting, say, $20 an hour, does it matter if it's from 1 person or 10?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

Nope.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“You have to risk not getting something in return I guess”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:30 AM

Exactly.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“what semi complex theory of potlatching”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“What what?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“??”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“not familiar”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

And Seth is going to answer potlatching:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

(I don't know what he's talking about, either)

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:31 AM

you give to the point of embarrassment.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“What is that, like ceramics?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:32 AM

it motivates others to reciprocate because otherwise you are a greedy dick

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:32 AM

if you dont

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:32 AM

it works through social pressure

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“We're talking major culture shift”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“do you subscribe to that theory, Seth?”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:33 AM

so in a community or through open registers we can pursue this

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:33 AM

<robin> Uhhh. it worked in Red Mars....

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

Hahahaha

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

Red mars is part of his favorite SciFi series.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i wonder if 'over-giving' could result in undervaluing the 'gift'”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

Me, too...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ok. i was wondering.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

It's all a social experiment.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“And theres always someone out there who will take advantage”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i haven't watched tv for decades. just netflix sometimes.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

They're books.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

We don't TV, either.

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

true but the idea is that it is all out in the open so the leaches are visible and then admonished or left out.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“ohhhh. please forgive me!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“No cable club!! holla”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

No worries - and Virtual High-Five!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:35 AM

we are all cord cutters here

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Becca Gambs

“Sounds nice!! Gotta take off guys, It'll keep me thinkin!!!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

Thanks for dropping by tonight!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

I loved your perspective!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

peace

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“good meeting you, Becca”

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

Becca

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“llll/ ,- my high five for you”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:37 AM

heck yes!

Seth Westbrook Toker · 3:37 AM

BTW... sorry i came in late, i put my kid to sleep and it usually puts me to sleep too...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:37 AM

It worked out - Aaron got to give some good stuff tonight.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

You guys are THE BEST!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“what a special time, bedtime with a 2 yr. old”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

True. He's a sweet boy!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“so are youuuuuuuuu!”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

Aww, thanks!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Yeah, I'm a fan”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:39 AM

Hey, anyone who wants to keep working on this during the week should be my friend on Facebook - we've got a page that we post on for this series, and it's getting to be pretty fun!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:39 AM

Rebecca Ann Westbrook-Toker

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:39 AM

or caradelsol@gmail.com.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:39 AM

Find me!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:40 AM

Thank you, Robin, for your contributions to the tawk and the page!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“have a great night everyone”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“oh... i was liking your comment”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i'm happy to comment. just don't want to overdo it.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:40 AM

Thanks Seth and Aaron, my cohosts!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

Thanks, Jordan, Becca, Rick - love the forum!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

have a great weekend!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“"Help! I'm holding forth and I can't stop!"”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

Nah! Let it out!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“yes, thanks guys, alla ya.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum

“Good game, good game, good game”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:41 AM

Hahahahaha!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“llll/ JB”

Forum · 310

Forum· 310 comments

29 visitors

Tawkers AdminFeb 28, 2014, 2:46 AM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 1:52 AM★ Spotlighted

yay, rick! stay awake now. = ]

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 1:56 AM★ Spotlighted

not good to wake up?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 1:59 AM★ Spotlighted

i bet it does. very little problem like that here in Montana.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:00 AM★ Spotlighted

yay! hi rebecca and Seth!

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Hi I'm here but dealing with something. I'll be back in 15.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:02 AM

hahaha

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:03 AM★ Spotlighted

ready for the better world part.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:05 AM★ Spotlighted

for sure, every chance i get. what a terrible idea that is.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:06 AM

that too, rebecca

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

hey hey

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:06 AM

an entire garden of earthly horrors.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

Hello, Aaron

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:07 AM

I know!

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

exhausting

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

so today is nuclear energy?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

true?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:08 AM★ Spotlighted

proliferation of nuclear power or weapons?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

=D ya, not actually !

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

well the best way to protest nuclear power is to turn off your light if you're in the service area

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:09 AM

yes, i loved chapter 4

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

and as i see it, the actual problem with nuclear power is that the waste is forever

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

i am happy to say... Montana is a "non-agreement state"

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

even if it is very little waste, in terms of waste over time, its the dirtiest thing around

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

deadliest too

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

its responsible in a short timeline

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

irresponsible in a long one

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:11 AM★ Spotlighted

but, aaron, there is no short timeline, really. is there?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:12 AM★ Spotlighted

none of it makes any sense to me. i think we don't want it at all, thank you very much.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:13 AM★ Spotlighted

kxl product is not even staying in the states, is it? going to china or something?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

meh, the shortness of the timeline depends on the perspective of the person

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

and yes its going to China, in the end i think KXL makes something like 2000 jobs, thats it

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:14 AM

how big is your "big picture"?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

and manages to run oil over the most important watershed in american farmland

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:15 AM

so its very little juice for a lot of squeeze

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:15 AM★ Spotlighted

and not permanent jobs, as i understand it.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:15 AM★ Spotlighted

i also worry about the apparently inevitable leaks and spills

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

at the end of the day its only getting a push because going in front of the GOP and saying green not oil is like running into a synagogue and screaming nazi

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

they did apply to use thinner steal than normal

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:16 AM

indeed, rebecca. tko

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

ugh, ugh. cuts to safety again.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

what about biofuel?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:17 AM

hey rick

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

i got some experience with ethonol and switchgrass

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

but thats about it

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

thats true

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:21 AM★ Spotlighted

danged if i know, robots?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

well look at the overall assumption

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

that the world is shaped by technology

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

lordy no! i wouldn't either.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

first, true or false, do we buy that

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:22 AM

looks like a good video, rick. thanks

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:23 AM★ Spotlighted

we can't avoid it to some degree

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:23 AM★ Spotlighted

well if we buy that, and an assumption which shumacher doesnt make which i think has to be asked

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:23 AM★ Spotlighted

is if technology is becoming more inhuman

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

which he seems to think it is

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

is that a result of us being less human

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

or humane

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

maybe a result of our inculcation by our 'economic system'

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

well thats an interesting idea robin brings up

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:25 AM★ Spotlighted

if there was any money in it, we could expand our humaneness.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:26 AM★ Spotlighted

because less economic 'well off' societies also tended to be less technologically evolved

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:26 AM★ Spotlighted

and perhaps, happier and nice to each other.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:26 AM★ Spotlighted

theres always money involved

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:26 AM★ Spotlighted

so lets explore that point, define humanness

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:27 AM★ Spotlighted

well, i was striving for "humane" ness. being nicer, compassionate, etc.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

well this gets interesting though

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

because i genuinely believe the more capitalistic development groups tend to be the most effective

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

how so, aaron?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

when it comes to filling a compassionate mission

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

Beckys seen this alot

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

but heres the reasoning

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:29 AM

how does that work?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

a traditional non profit developing organization has a simple pattern

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

get donations do work

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

correct?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

yep

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

but lets thing about what happens when that occurs

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

first, you've seperated who pays you from who you service

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

yes

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

so the way you stay operating is to please those who pay you

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

not those you do things for

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

which because they are donating, are likely the exact opposite of those youd be helping

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

with the least ability to understand the wants of those you service

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

maybe so

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

but it gets worse

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

i'm sure it does

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

because now extend the implications of the marketing

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

it also leads to messages that encourage donations

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

and whats easier to message, one big thing, or a lot of little things

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:32 AM

propaganda?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:32 AM★ Spotlighted

one big thing

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

please continue

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

but yet, because developing nations tend to be mostly small villages, the actual problems are diverse and widespread

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

yes

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:34 AM★ Spotlighted

whereas a company, or a foundation that actually makes something people in the area need, or sets up infrastructure in the place to make something they genuinely need

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:34 AM★ Spotlighted

they are motivated to listen to the population they help, or they go out of business

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

the key is whether or not the need is genuine

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

yes

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

and i think that genuine aspect, is the human face

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

which if you keep doing, is actually a way to build a society economically that is sustainable

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

makes sense

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

and lets you sell them bigger things down the road

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

episode from what? so i can find it.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

so over a long enough timeline, is more profitable

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

and now my fingers are tired

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:36 AM

continue educating us becky!

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:37 AM★ Spotlighted

I'm late, anyone wanna catch me up to what we are discussing?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:37 AM★ Spotlighted

LOL I think im in the wrong chat...

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:37 AM

ok, thanks, rebecca

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

i was with you, aaron, until you said, 'sell them bigger things down the road'. to the developing nation? or the donors?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

the developing nation, a people with filled needs develop bigger needs

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:39 AM

maslows heirchy

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

Becca G. you could read the comments. =]

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

if you put food in their belly they have time for art

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

art makes money

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

i suppose, if they were "on their feet", but let's not take undue advantage of them and sell 'em stuff they don't need.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

just as a broad example

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:40 AM

I could, but then I am forever behind, lol. Summaries are fun tho right? Its ok ill catch on or enjoy the show either way

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

well yeah, its all genuine need, thats the human face of it all

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:40 AM

if you wander away from real need, they stop developing

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:41 AM

and you lose that opportunity for bigger returns later

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:41 AM

yes, indeed

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:42 AM

why can't the return be the knowledge you have helped these people?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:42 AM

thats a return, because youre in a society that has filled enough needs that you have the time for self actualization

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:43 AM★ Spotlighted

how are we defining "production"?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:43 AM★ Spotlighted

3%?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:43 AM

but its beckys role to get philosophical, its my role to say that the people who don't have mercy, should still do these things, if they were smart as they thought they were

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:44 AM

ahhh, ok, Aaron.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:44 AM

do it well, rick

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:45 AM

i think the internet makes this number slightly harder to grab ahold of

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:45 AM★ Spotlighted

what are the rest of the lazy bums doing to justify their existence?

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:45 AM★ Spotlighted

Uh oh, does it turn out that most people are wasting their time?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:46 AM

do we count "virtual construction"?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:46 AM

Thanks.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:46 AM

No wonder people are so antsy

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:46 AM★ Spotlighted

That numbers only going down then, right. Due to technological advances.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:47 AM

and the rest in smoking cigarettes and gossip?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:48 AM

its a strange system

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:48 AM

or are in a business other than producing

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:48 AM

such as "management"

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:48 AM

or government

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:49 AM

it was pr back then

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:49 AM

What about medicine?

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:49 AM★ Spotlighted

I think this is what happens when things get too big. In a small kibbutz, there's no where to hide.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:49 AM

and you have to remember, in the united states you have two parents and two point five kids

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:49 AM

so thats already more than 50 percent that is not producing

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:49 AM

if all adults produced

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:49 AM★ Spotlighted

Being an eye doc, I don't build or grow things but feel like I am contributing to peoples well being in another way

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:50 AM

yes it does

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:50 AM★ Spotlighted

yeah, 3 percent of the time is productive time

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:50 AM

if you look at all the time of everyone

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:50 AM★ Spotlighted

Yeah, what about the provision of services?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:51 AM

talking about the plight of humanity online

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:51 AM

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:51 AM

i have to wonder how long we will be allowed that particular pleasure, access to an online community.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:52 AM

manscaping? what the heck is that?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:52 AM

But eventually something will scan your eyes and print out some specs and I will be obsolete lol

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:52 AM

you certainly are, Becca! i love vision.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:52 AM

access to a community, indefinitely, but eventually itll get monatized and regulated

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:53 AM★ Spotlighted

This should be a good thing....people have more time to live as they please. But I think the issue is how to fairly divide the goods.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:53 AM

Like soft ice cream?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:54 AM

its good Becca but what happens when people choose to spend that time

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:54 AM

and that choice is less about being productive for yourself and others

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:55 AM

sounds good to me, rebecca.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:55 AM

WWSTD? (What Would Star Trek Do?)

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:56 AM

Recent Star Trek? Lens flare

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:56 AM★ Spotlighted

we're talking about 'right work' a satisfying endeavor.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:56 AM

theyd do lens flare

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:56 AM

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:56 AM

So the weekend should be like 5.8 days long !! :)

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:57 AM

it should, Becca!

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:57 AM

Working collectively and harmoniously towards a shared goal is fun! Just ask the Amish!

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:57 AM

a part of this is not growing so big that you cant eficiently pare the right person with the right work

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 2:58 AM

That also means we need to educate/train everyone

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:58 AM

yes. they would have more time for creativity and exploring the world

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:58 AM

at a certain size, you have so much stuff to fill, that people get long work weeks cuz its easier than finding the next guy

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:58 AM

it sounds like FUN! but we can't have fun, its not "economical"

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 2:58 AM★ Spotlighted

Plus think about the advancement of ideas if people had the time to think...

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:59 AM

didn't he also talk about paring down "essentials"?

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 2:59 AM

it is economical, but its also enlightened

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 2:59 AM

for sure, JB.. people do not have enough time to think

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:00 AM

it sure is

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:00 AM

Thinking is only overrated for people who keep secrets from themselves.

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Free education would make it easier

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:01 AM

Lol

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:02 AM★ Spotlighted

Everyone needs a background in computer science/technology in order for smaller communities to reap the benefits

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:02 AM

But almost all action is preceded by a thought, so it's not really an either / or kinda thing...

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:03 AM

nah

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:03 AM

small communities that dont have IT skills can thrive

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:03 AM★ Spotlighted

lots of amish places

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:03 AM★ Spotlighted

how they make those crazy fireplaces ill never understand

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:04 AM★ Spotlighted

its voodoo

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:04 AM★ Spotlighted

LOL

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:05 AM★ Spotlighted

I hear you, but to enjoy the technological advances of the modern world....

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:05 AM

oh god, rick, and mardi gras, no good will ccoe of this

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:05 AM

but, how lovely to have an appreciation for the variety of cultures in this world.

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:05 AM★ Spotlighted

How can I work only 1.2 days per week if no one can operate the fancy eye scan spec-printer

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:06 AM★ Spotlighted

Somewhere out there lies the perfect balance of technology and nature.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:06 AM★ Spotlighted

theres the beauty, Becca... job sharing.. share the wealth of satisfaction in a job well done!

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:07 AM★ Spotlighted

I just dont want to end up half robot....

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:07 AM★ Spotlighted

well you have to remember becky, shumacher says social time in production

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:07 AM★ Spotlighted

not social time in place of production

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:07 AM★ Spotlighted

two different things

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:08 AM

Sometimes I think being human means being half robot

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:08 AM

My husband stacks bags for a living!! Gahhh.

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:08 AM★ Spotlighted

well re read the statements

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:09 AM★ Spotlighted

if hes trying expand social time in production sixfold

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:09 AM★ Spotlighted

that its not expanding production

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:09 AM

Dont worry he's quiting soon..

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:09 AM★ Spotlighted

or collapsing it

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:09 AM★ Spotlighted

hes shooting for 1.2 days of the work week that is actually spent socially

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:09 AM★ Spotlighted

thats my read of the argument anyways

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:10 AM★ Spotlighted

yes

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:10 AM★ Spotlighted

Shear the sheep

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:11 AM★ Spotlighted

Collect the eggs

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:11 AM

Feed the ox

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:12 AM★ Spotlighted

Floss the teeth

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:12 AM★ Spotlighted

Like this!

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:13 AM★ Spotlighted

man i loved the chickens when i had them, too

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:13 AM★ Spotlighted

I do think we are describing happier lives

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:14 AM★ Spotlighted

i believer you're right!

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:14 AM★ Spotlighted

mmm fried chicken

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:15 AM★ Spotlighted

mustard?

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:15 AM★ Spotlighted

Do you want to enjoy chicken for one dinner, or eggs for breakfast every day?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:15 AM★ Spotlighted

Some of you may be closer to this lifestyle than me. How did you get there?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:15 AM★ Spotlighted

i did not eat my chickens.

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:16 AM★ Spotlighted

LIke, the majority of us, lol.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:16 AM★ Spotlighted

i live outside a smallish city.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:16 AM★ Spotlighted

Please, the closest I ever got to this kind of living was visiting a petting zoo for my nieces fifth birthday.

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:16 AM★ Spotlighted

I feel like for me the lack of funds is a barrier. (Land acquisition, etc)

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:16 AM

did you both love it, JB?

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:17 AM

Absolutely!

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:17 AM

makes me feel connected to the earth

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:17 AM★ Spotlighted

I think its also alittle inherently false to say that you have to go be a forrest living hippy to be fufilled Becca

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:17 AM★ Spotlighted

its more chasing fufillment and making sure that you and those you work with are doing things that are fufilling, and that if you were acting as one person, are things youd still choose

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:18 AM

No one here is in the business of absolutes.

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:18 AM★ Spotlighted

Ok Aaron, you dont have to be that, but I might, LOL

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:18 AM

so you work in optometry from the sound of it?\

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:18 AM

peace n' love!

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:19 AM

that is inherently a technology with a human face everytime you genuinely help someone see better without over selling them

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:19 AM

Yes, yes I do. for better or worse

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:19 AM

less is easier to keep up

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:19 AM

because sight required to operate day to day, is a human health matter

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:19 AM★ Spotlighted

What is this "shower" you speak of?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:19 AM★ Spotlighted

what/who do you teach rebecca?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:20 AM★ Spotlighted

Backpacking is a great way to open your eyes to what is really necessary for survival

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:20 AM

Delousing?!

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:21 AM

on this note, i think its time for me to retire

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:21 AM★ Spotlighted

i wanna go shower

Aaron MeyersMar 1, 2014, 3:21 AM

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:21 AM

oh wow! love it

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:21 AM

bon voyage, aaron

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:21 AM★ Spotlighted

ok, so what is that?

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:21 AM

You're too young to retire, Aaron

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:22 AM★ Spotlighted

It can be great aaron but also insurance companies, and i do not own my own practice so sometimes forced to see pts in 15min...its very frustrating

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:22 AM★ Spotlighted

very cool

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:22 AM

g'night sir

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:23 AM★ Spotlighted

a bit stultifying?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:23 AM★ Spotlighted

Thats how I feel about most aspects of society

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:23 AM★ Spotlighted

yes robin lol

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:24 AM★ Spotlighted

but there is a reason it is done the way it is done: profit margin

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:25 AM★ Spotlighted

i'm so tired of the sanctity of the profit margin

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:26 AM★ Spotlighted

Or die trying!!

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:26 AM★ Spotlighted

Anyone wanna start bartering?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:26 AM★ Spotlighted

I got free eye exams over here!!

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:26 AM★ Spotlighted

i would love to see vast sectors of our society play the game differently.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:26 AM★ Spotlighted

yes, barter!

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:27 AM

free paintings.

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:27 AM

Problem: proximity lol

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:27 AM

sounds interesting

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:27 AM

pony express, Becca!

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:28 AM★ Spotlighted

Like that Radiohead album!

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:28 AM★ Spotlighted

you give stuff to someone? then what?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:29 AM★ Spotlighted

They give something back?

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:29 AM★ Spotlighted

Pay what you want, including nothing.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:29 AM★ Spotlighted

oh, i like that

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:29 AM★ Spotlighted

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:30 AM★ Spotlighted

You have to risk not getting something in return I guess

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:30 AM★ Spotlighted

What what?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:30 AM★ Spotlighted

what semi complex theory of potlatching

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:30 AM★ Spotlighted

not familiar

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:31 AM★ Spotlighted

What is that, like ceramics?

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:32 AM

i suppose, in your experiment, Rebecca, you could both discuss the potential outcome beforehand and decide if you want to engage.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:32 AM★ Spotlighted

do you subscribe to that theory, Seth?

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:32 AM★ Spotlighted

We're talking major culture shift

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:34 AM★ Spotlighted

i wonder if 'over-giving' could result in undervaluing the 'gift'

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:34 AM★ Spotlighted

ok. i was wondering.

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:34 AM★ Spotlighted

And theres always someone out there who will take advantage

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:34 AM★ Spotlighted

i haven't watched tv for decades. just netflix sometimes.

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:35 AM

You gotta hope the majority of people are better than that. I do have some doubts...

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:35 AM★ Spotlighted

ohhhh. please forgive me!

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:35 AM★ Spotlighted

No cable club!! holla

Becca GambsMar 1, 2014, 3:35 AM★ Spotlighted

Sounds nice!! Gotta take off guys, It'll keep me thinkin!!!

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:36 AM

llll/

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:36 AM★ Spotlighted

good meeting you, Becca

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:36 AM★ Spotlighted

llll/ ,- my high five for you

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:37 AM★ Spotlighted

what a special time, bedtime with a 2 yr. old

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:38 AM★ Spotlighted

so are youuuuuuuuu!

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:38 AM★ Spotlighted

Yeah, I'm a fan

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:38 AM★ Spotlighted

have a great night everyone

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:39 AM

* like

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:40 AM★ Spotlighted

oh... i was liking your comment

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:40 AM★ Spotlighted

i'm happy to comment. just don't want to overdo it.

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:40 AM★ Spotlighted

"Help! I'm holding forth and I can't stop!"

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:41 AM★ Spotlighted

yes, thanks guys, alla ya.

Jordan BirnbaumMar 1, 2014, 3:41 AM★ Spotlighted

Good game, good game, good game

Robin MaynardMar 1, 2014, 3:41 AM★ Spotlighted

llll/ JB