Katie Klabusich

Host

"So You Just Met a Bisexual" A Guide

Aug 12, 2014·2,008 visitors

Aaminah Khan

Cohost

Stage· 253 messages

Aug 12, 2014

I'm SO excited Aaminah is back with me to discuss allyship and dispel the myths about bisexuality! nRead her piece "So You Just Met a Bisexual: a Guide for Allies (and “Allies”)" -->nhttp://bit.ly/1pmiTcV <-- & join us for a frank chat about how it turns out bisexuals are (GASP) human! She'll clear some things up & open your eyes in her characteristically funny and awesome way.

Aaminah Khan · 1:08 AM

and we're live!

Aaminah Khan · 1:08 AM

sorry about the tech issues, folks. welcome all, and thanks for your patience!

Katie Klabusich · 1:08 AM

Hi, everyone! Thanks for coming to "So You Just Met a Bisexual! — A Guide" (ProTip: there’s a mobile app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tawkers/id791417999?mt=8 )

Katie Klabusich · 1:09 AM

It's handy to have available tech!

Katie Klabusich · 1:09 AM

Alright. Imma run through the intro/disclaimers...

Katie Klabusich · 1:09 AM

Real quick, if you’re new to Tawkers, Jay and I will be chatting on the left. And if you’re signed in (it only takes two minutes to set up a profile!), you can add comments/questions on the right. Interrupt any time with questions!

Katie Klabusich · 1:09 AM

Also, definitely use the “arrow” icons to share comments on social media so people you know will be into the discussion can join.

Katie Klabusich · 1:09 AM

Before we start, my tawks are a safe space. Ask questions, share — but no abusive language will be tolerated. If you need to mute someone, click the “ … “ under the thumbs in their comment or click on their profile.

Katie Klabusich · 1:10 AM

With the disclaimers out of the way, let’s start "So You Just Met a Bisexual! — A Guide" Thanks for joining me, Jay!

Aaminah Khan · 1:10 AM

I'm so glad to be back here! thanks for inviting me. :)

Katie Klabusich · 1:10 AM

I’m so excited you’re back — we’re even in the same time zone! Congrats on the move half-way around the world to the U.S. <dances about wildly>

Katie Klabusich · 1:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rodrigo A. Bartels

“Hi!”

Aaminah Khan · 1:11 AM

thank you! moving has been hectic, but I'm finally settled, so it's all good.

Katie Klabusich · 1:11 AM

The last time we talked we discovered we needed more time on biphobia — both blatant and accidental/masked/your basic uninformed. Tell everybody a bit about why this topic matters to you before we dive in.

Aaminah Khan · 1:11 AM

sure! the reason I wrote this piece in particular is that I wanted to highlight the ways in which hurtful and violent behaviours aren't always blatant. sometimes they're very subtle and the violence and harm may even be unintentional.

Aaminah Khan · 1:11 AM

but these microaggressions do reinforce structural inequality and perpetuate structural violence against marginalised people - bisexual folks, in this case.

Katie Klabusich · 1:12 AM

( n"So You Just Met a Bisexual: a Guide for Allies (and “Allies”)" --> http://bit.ly/1pmiTcV )

Aaminah Khan · 1:12 AM

there's this idea like if you're not participating in lynchings or beatings, you're not being violent, but "violence" in the structural sense can mean a lot of things, all of which detrimentally impact the quality of life of the marginalised.

Katie Klabusich · 1:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucas Nguyen

“So glad you two are doing this chat!”

Katie Klabusich · 1:12 AM

People at our "Labels On My Soul" chat named after your piece on how you label yourself were really interested in more on this topic, so thanks to everyone who's back.

Aaminah Khan · 1:12 AM

so I wanted to talk about the little things that wear me down as a bisexual, particularly a bisexual woman, and why they're harmful and damaging.

Katie Klabusich · 1:13 AM

Your piece was fantastic.

Katie Klabusich · 1:13 AM

Playful and upbeat, but direct and clear.

Aaminah Khan · 1:13 AM

thanks! writing those things, I always find that a lot of people comment telling me they really relate to what I've said, or I've put some of their own frustrations into words.

Aaminah Khan · 1:13 AM

not everyone has the vocabulary or discursive background to put their lived experience into words, so I'm glad that I can help people express themselves that way.

Katie Klabusich · 1:14 AM

Absolutely. I particularly liked your framing in the piece: here are some questions you'll have. DON'T ASK THEM.

Aaminah Khan · 1:14 AM

yeah, and the thing is, I understand WHY people have those questions and even why they might think they're being harmless. my intention wasn't to point any fingers, just to let people know what they're doing before they can cause harm.

Aaminah Khan · 1:15 AM

it's obviously very natural to be curious, but there are things you can say and do that inflict harm even when your intentions are good. it's easy to focus on the more blatant stuff and forget the harm that microaggressions cause.

Aaminah Khan · 1:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“I find the micro aggressions from other non-straight folks to be the most painful... kind of expect it from straight folks sometimes, but whoa, the zingers from other non-hetero folks REALLY hurt.”

Aaminah Khan · 1:15 AM

for sure! I think there's definitely a monosexual vs non-monosexual thing going on even within the LGBT+ community that a lot of people are unaware of.

Aaminah Khan · 1:16 AM

it's not as simple as "straight vs gay", because obviously bisexual people are neither (or both, some people would say). there's a lot of nuance. and that's where microaggressions tend to come from - a lack of nuance.

Aaminah Khan · 1:16 AM

for example, when your bisexual lady friend starts dating a dude, asking, "so are you straight now?" is a question that might seem harmless but hurts because of that lack of nuance.

Katie Klabusich · 1:17 AM

Uhhhhh.

Aaminah Khan · 1:17 AM

and that's where a lot of bad allyship comes from - not really considering the complexities of a situation or of a person's identity.

Katie Klabusich · 1:17 AM

It's not like saying "So your new boyfriend is blonde; do you not dig brunettes anymore?"

Katie Klabusich · 1:17 AM

Your first one is: "You don’t know how many sex partners they’ve had." I think this oversexed one is what I hear most often from outside the queer community.

Aaminah Khan · 1:18 AM

oh, for sure. you hear it within the queer community as well from monosexuals (gays and lesbians) but it's worse from straight people.

Katie Klabusich · 1:18 AM

Obviously the root in our Puritanical need to limit and count sex partners is problematic, but there's a whole other level to that for bi people.

Aaminah Khan · 1:18 AM

so this is a really good example of making something complex into something far too simplified. when all your exposure to bisexual people - women in particular - is from, say, girls gone wild, you're going to have certain ideas.

Katie Klabusich · 1:19 AM

Aaminah Khan · 1:19 AM

and that's certainly one kind of bisexual identity, and it's not an invalid one. some people do have a lot of sexual partners, which is obviously fine.

Aaminah Khan · 1:19 AM

but to typecast an entire group like that is a microaggression. it ignores that complexity of identity.

Katie Klabusich · 1:19 AM

There are so many people that think LOADS of partners is the "reason" behind bisexuality.

Aaminah Khan · 1:20 AM

I actually read a really good piece by @flyingteacosy once about how we need to lay off "barsexuals" because their sexual expression is just as valid as anyone else's, which I thought was great.

Katie Klabusich · 1:20 AM

I resemble that remark.

Aaminah Khan · 1:20 AM

haha!

Katie Klabusich · 1:20 AM

And thank you.

Katie Klabusich · 1:20 AM

;)

Katie Klabusich · 1:20 AM

It flows into your second "don't ask b/c duh" -- "you don’t know what their sex drive is like."

Katie Klabusich · 1:21 AM

Wait, what's a "barsexual"?

Aaminah Khan · 1:21 AM

the thing some people do to "fight back" against these claims is say "oh, bisexuals aren't like that, only wasted straight girls are like that!" which is obviously really nasty in its own way and feeds into terrible misogynistic stereotypes.

Aaminah Khan · 1:21 AM

hi kare! a "barsexual" is a nasty term for someone who gets drunk and sexually experiments, basically.

Katie Klabusich · 1:21 AM

Yes, totally. Be however you want to be -- just don't assume anything of other people.

Aaminah Khan · 1:21 AM

exactly.

Aaminah Khan · 1:22 AM

as for sex drive, this is another one that absolutely comes from media representation.

Katie Klabusich · 1:22 AM

I'm struggling to think of a real representation of a bisexual character in film or TV....

Aaminah Khan · 1:22 AM

there's obviously no way you can tell from looking at someone whether they have a low or high sex drive. we have coded cues in our media that suggest those things.

Aaminah Khan · 1:22 AM

hmmm. you know, outside of maybe orange is the new black or something, there aren't many.

Aaminah Khan · 1:23 AM

I guess black widow and steve rogers are both implied bisexuals in the marvel comics universe movies.

Katie Klabusich · 1:23 AM

I love your nerdiness.

Aaminah Khan · 1:23 AM

there are a few coded bi characters in doctor who, I think. river song is explicitly pan, which is related but different.

Katie Klabusich · 1:23 AM

I also love that you always toss my issue a bone -- not b/c it's mine, but b/c you don't leave people out when you discuss sex/gender/sexuality.

Aaminah Khan · 1:23 AM

of course, those portrayals tend to be performative and centre on male gaze.

Katie Klabusich · 1:24 AM

"You don’t know if they’re polyamorous, monoamorous, in an open relationship or happily single."

Katie Klabusich · 1:24 AM

(Word; designed for the dudebros watching)

Katie Klabusich · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“They don't call themselves anything, but there are characters on True Blood that have partners of different genders. But of course, that whole show feeds into the oversexed stereotype.”

Katie Klabusich · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Brittney White

“One thing I've noticed is whenever there is a bisexual person in a tv show in particular, they avoid using the word "bisexual" as much as possible.”

Aaminah Khan · 1:24 AM

well, the thing is that people conflate sexuality and relationship preferences, which really doesn't follow logically if you think about it.

Aaminah Khan · 1:24 AM

but there's an idea that all queer people and bisexuals in particular want sex constantly so they must "need" multiple sex partners.

Aaminah Khan · 1:25 AM

now, polyamory is about commitment and building relationships just like mono relationships are, but that's glossed over a lot.

Katie Klabusich · 1:25 AM

(You'd think the marriage equality movement would at least have damped that down a notch.)

Aaminah Khan · 1:25 AM

I think the marriage equality movement is very much centred on the needs of monogamous cisgender gay males.

Aaminah Khan · 1:25 AM

generally white. :P

Aaminah Khan · 1:26 AM

so there's not much discussion of poly relationships because it's like there's no room for it, when really that's absurd.

Katie Klabusich · 1:26 AM

Oh, totally.

Aaminah Khan · 1:26 AM

any relationship between two or more consenting adults can be healthy or unhealthy regardless of the sexuality of the partners.

Aaminah Khan · 1:26 AM

pundits yell "if we let gays marry, what next? polygamy?????"

Katie Klabusich · 1:26 AM

I was just hoping in my polyanna-ish way that maybe we could drop some of that bullshit when there was visible commitment. <sigh>

Aaminah Khan · 1:26 AM

and I'm like, "hell yeah, bring it on! multiple partners for anyone who wants them!"

Aaminah Khan · 1:27 AM

the idea that the state needs to watch over the morality of adult relationships is fundamentally very patriarchal.

Katie Klabusich · 1:27 AM

Yes, you're very much describing my annoyance with trying to explain my ID as poly.

Aaminah Khan · 1:28 AM

it's weird because nobody sees, say, a cishet man and woman and wonders if their relationship is healthy. it's just assumed that it is.

Katie Klabusich · 1:28 AM

People assume very similar things of me that they do you -- SO MANY PARTNERS, SO MUCH SEX, EVERYBODY'S INVITED.

Katie Klabusich · 1:28 AM

Exactly. And yet, massive failure rate.

Aaminah Khan · 1:28 AM

and a lot of the time, it is! lots of men and women happily married, no problems. but those relationships aren't any less inherently abusive than others.

Katie Klabusich · 1:28 AM

Do people ask you why you got married?

Aaminah Khan · 1:28 AM

yeah, sometimes! "why did you marry a dude if you're bi?" is one I get a lot.

Aaminah Khan · 1:28 AM

which...I think they assume bi people will eventually "choose" being gay? but that's not how it works.

Aaminah Khan · 1:29 AM

I just love the person I'm with. I love him as a man, I guess, but also just as a human being. he's the right person for me regardless of his gender.

Aaminah Khan · 1:29 AM

I'm still very attracted to women - slightly moreso than I am to men, actually - but relationships aren't about giving up attraction to other people.

Aaminah Khan · 1:29 AM

they're about commitment, and a bisexual can commit just as easily as a monosexual can.

Katie Klabusich · 1:29 AM

That, my friend, is an excellent point.

Aaminah Khan · 1:30 AM

I mean, when my mother got married, she didn't stop finding george clooney attractive, you know?

Katie Klabusich · 1:30 AM

Pffft. Who could? Which takes us nicely to the "cheating" assumption.

Aaminah Khan · 1:30 AM

oh god. OH GOD. this one is the worst because it gets thrown both at me and at my partner.

Aaminah Khan · 1:30 AM

when they dislike me it's "you're a cheating whore" and when they dislike him it's "your whore wife is probably going to cheat on you". so pleasant.

Aaminah Khan · 1:31 AM

(which is super whorephobic, by the way, likening women you don't like to sex workers!)

Katie Klabusich · 1:31 AM

Oh hell, I didn't even think about your partner getting it. UGH.

Aaminah Khan · 1:31 AM

oh, for sure. and he's very good about taking the abuse - he's a great ally! but it does wear both of us down.

Aaminah Khan · 1:31 AM

people have this idea like a bisexual will never be satisfied, but isn't that equally (un)true of straight people?

Katie Klabusich · 1:32 AM

How do you respond to that? More with strangers and acquaintances I hope, than close friends and family.

Aaminah Khan · 1:32 AM

like I said, my mother didn't stop finding actors hot when she got married. so...why not assume she'll cheat?

Aaminah Khan · 1:32 AM

except people don't, because she's a married straight woman, even though she's still attracted to other men.

Aaminah Khan · 1:32 AM

generally I just make a comment about how they'll never have to worry about having sex with me. XD

Aaminah Khan · 1:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Miltiades Grammenos

“From my experience it's, it's about trust. Being bi makes us untrustworthy”

Aaminah Khan · 1:33 AM

exactly. people think we're untrustworthy because we "can't make up our minds", which isn't true.

Aaminah Khan · 1:33 AM

when I got married, I made up my mind to be with one person. that's a choice any married person has to make.

Katie Klabusich · 1:34 AM

I always want to ask "was your cheating ex bi? Ok then."

Aaminah Khan · 1:34 AM

because we're seen as indecisive, people assume we can't make up our minds about anything.

Katie Klabusich · 1:34 AM

Probably not. Probably wouldn't have been why they cheated if they were.

Aaminah Khan · 1:34 AM

there's this idea like we can't "choose" between men and women. we have chosen! we've chosen both!

Aaminah Khan · 1:34 AM

or in some cases, we choose other genders too, not just men and women.

Katie Klabusich · 1:34 AM

That must confuse people.

Aaminah Khan · 1:35 AM

I wonder, do straight people think to themselves that they've "chosen" a single other gender, or do they just know it's what they like?

Aaminah Khan · 1:35 AM

I suspect the latter.

Katie Klabusich · 1:35 AM

Good question....

Katie Klabusich · 1:35 AM

I was chatting with a friend about the word pansexual the other day. And Brittney brought up that media avoid the word "bisexual."

Aaminah Khan · 1:36 AM

the media thinks all bisexuals are promiscuous (read: immoral, because morality police!) so they don't want to use it. it's a dirty word.

Katie Klabusich · 1:36 AM

Are we really behind in the language tools to discuss people who are attracted to more than one gender?

Katie Klabusich · 1:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from foul speech

“I find that with bisexual women, people assume they are experimenting straight women but with bisexual men they are closeted gay men which is very patriarchal to me because the rhetoric reflects that women always like guys and men only like guys”

Aaminah Khan · 1:36 AM

well, pansexuality is a separate ID. I have a friend who once identified as bi but now identifies as pan. he feels it suits him better.

Katie Klabusich · 1:36 AM

@foul -- I also find both of those stereotypes especially patriarchal.

Aaminah Khan · 1:36 AM

what's actually lagging behind is our understanding of the terms we do have. "bisexual" doesn't have to mean just "men and women".

Katie Klabusich · 1:36 AM

That's more what I was asking.

Aaminah Khan · 1:37 AM

"same gender and other genders" is a definition I mention in my article that is how I personally identify.

Katie Klabusich · 1:37 AM

Also it has the word "sex" in it. It's explicit, unlike gay or straight.

Aaminah Khan · 1:37 AM

pansexuality is more...not caring about gender at all than being attracted to certain genders.

Aaminah Khan · 1:37 AM

the two are often conflated, but they are different and I think it's important to respect people of both IDs and not confuse them.

Katie Klabusich · 1:37 AM

Indeed.

Katie Klabusich · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“It's a subtle cue from the language. "Bisexual" refers to who you sleep with. Lesbian and gay doesn't have the word "sex" in it... There are certainly people who identify as bi who aren't interested in relationships with same gender, just sex, and”

Katie Klabusich · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“vice versa”

Aaminah Khan · 1:38 AM

the reason I don't ID as pan is that when I'm attracted to someone, I do care what gender they are. I just like multiple genders.

Katie Klabusich · 1:38 AM

That's an interesting distinction.

Aaminah Khan · 1:38 AM

I'm attracted to people as men, or as women, or as agender, or as bigender, etc.

Aaminah Khan · 1:38 AM

I love the comment about how bisexuality is inherently more sexualised. that's so true.

Aaminah Khan · 1:39 AM

it's like it only refers to who you sleep with, not whom you love or want to build a life with or spend time with.

Aaminah Khan · 1:39 AM

bisexuals are seen as being "able" to have more sex, which is weird.

Aaminah Khan · 1:39 AM

when people thought I was straight, nobody thought I was attracted to every man ever.

Katie Klabusich · 1:39 AM

That's definitely true.

Aaminah Khan · 1:39 AM

but now that I'm out, people think I'm attracted to literally every man and woman. why would I be?

Aaminah Khan · 1:39 AM

nobody thinks a straight man would sleep with literally every woman on the planet.

Katie Klabusich · 1:39 AM

Seriously. Though women already do start off hearing "What? You can have sex whenever you want to because you're a woman."

Aaminah Khan · 1:40 AM

ohhhh god.

Katie Klabusich · 1:40 AM

Add bisexuality to that and....

Katie Klabusich · 1:40 AM

I say I'm "equal opportunity".

Aaminah Khan · 1:40 AM

yeah, people who say that actually mean "conventionally attractive women can have sex whenever they want," which is still bullshit but shows how they think about women.

Aaminah Khan · 1:40 AM

it's because they see women as giving up sex and men as taking sex.

Aaminah Khan · 1:40 AM

so men always want to take sex, which means women must always be able to have it taken from them, right? that's the (flawed) thinking.

Katie Klabusich · 1:41 AM

That nonsense makes me want to burn it all down.

Aaminah Khan · 1:41 AM

for sure. and it's not true anyway, because none of those men are rushing to have sex with women they don't find attractive.

Katie Klabusich · 1:41 AM

What makes you (not you) think I *want* to have sex just b/c I can? Like, with whatever's laying around?

Aaminah Khan · 1:41 AM

exactly! do women just not have standards, or what?

Aaminah Khan · 1:42 AM

it's funny because there's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on there.

Aaminah Khan · 1:42 AM

men complain that women are picky, but...also that women are out having all the sex they want?

Aaminah Khan · 1:42 AM

and then men claim it's hard to get laid, but...criticise and tear down women who don't fit patriarchy's exacting standards.

Aaminah Khan · 1:43 AM

in both cases, those ideas are fundamentally incompatible.

Katie Klabusich · 1:43 AM

GET BACK IN YOUR BOX, AAMINAH

Katie Klabusich · 1:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from foul speech

“isn't there always cognitive dissonance when oppression is involved? I've never heard a logical, consistent argument for oppression”

Aaminah Khan · 1:43 AM

so true. there's no such thing as intelligent bigotry.

Katie Klabusich · 1:43 AM

It's similar to what you were saying about non monogamy and people who use that "what's next? polygamy?"

Aaminah Khan · 1:44 AM

yeah, that one is weird to me because it's not like monogamy is some kind of gateway drug!

Katie Klabusich · 1:44 AM

I think I'd probably want some different word b/c of the specific oppressive history of the practice, but multiple adults entering into a life together with legal recognition just doesn't bug me.

Aaminah Khan · 1:44 AM

"she tried sleeping with a woman, what's next? HAVING GIGANTIC ORGIES???" how do those things logically follow?!

Aaminah Khan · 1:45 AM

and of course polyamory isn't seen as real commitment, even though there's just as much potential for committed relationships.

Aaminah Khan · 1:45 AM

it's just a matter of your own emotional and physical needs. it's not about wanting so much sex you can't "get" it all from one partner.

Aaminah Khan · 1:46 AM

(the idea of "getting" sex is so fundamentally messed up in and of itself!)

Katie Klabusich · 1:46 AM

Oh for sure. And so much talking. SO MUCH TALKING. ALL THE TALKING.

Katie Klabusich · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from foul speech

“I think a huge part to biphobia is war on agency. especially when it comes to women, they are not keeping themselves in a box. this way men don't know if they are "available" to them like they would know a straight woman isn't or a lesbian is not”

Katie Klabusich · 1:46 AM

That's an interesting perspective.

Katie Klabusich · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“Can you talk more about "caring about the gender of your partner" vs. "not discriminating" in your choice of partner based on gender?”

Aaminah Khan · 1:46 AM

ohhh god. the idea that any women are "available" to men is so messed up and steeped in rape culture.

Katie Klabusich · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from foul speech

“a straight woman is*”

Aaminah Khan · 1:46 AM

I can try! it's hard for me to talk about being pansexual when I'm not, so I may not get it 100% right.

Aaminah Khan · 1:47 AM

so the way I think is, when I'm into a guy, part of the reason is that he's a guy. I don't ONLY like guys, but guys are one gender I'm into.

Katie Klabusich · 1:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“I'm asking because your definition of pan was the opposite of what I've heard from pan people.”

Aaminah Khan · 1:47 AM

huh. well, they'd definitely be bigger experts on it than I am! I'm going off what I understand from discussions with pan people, reading articles, etc.

Aaminah Khan · 1:48 AM

obviously a pan person is a bigger authority on pansexual ID than I am.

Aaminah Khan · 1:48 AM

to me the difference has always been do you think about this person's gender when factoring in what attracts you to them or not?

Aaminah Khan · 1:48 AM

oh!

Aaminah Khan · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“Mainly the thing they said is that they are into trans folks as well as cis men and women.”

Aaminah Khan · 1:48 AM

okay, well, that's a pretty problematic idea. bisexuality does not preclude attraction to trans folks at all.

Aaminah Khan · 1:48 AM

trans women are women and trans men are men.

Aaminah Khan · 1:49 AM

so if I'm attracted to women, I'm also attracted to trans women. they're not a separate gender.

Aaminah Khan · 1:49 AM

and if I'm attracted to men, I'm also attracted to trans men because they're still men.

Aaminah Khan · 1:49 AM

the idea that pansexuality means attraction to trans as well as cis people whereas bisexuality precludes that is definitely problematic.

Aaminah Khan · 1:49 AM

it props up the idea that "trans" is a separate series of genders when it really isn't.

Katie Klabusich · 1:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“I hear you- but I think they meant folks who are transitioning or who have different anatomical parts than the gender they present.”

Aaminah Khan · 1:50 AM

hmmm. well, to me those people are still the gender they identify as and I'll be attracted to them as members of that gender. that's kinda tough.

Katie Klabusich · 1:50 AM

My friends who identify as poly do so in part to make that clear - the openness to being attracted to all genders.

Aaminah Khan · 1:50 AM

I can see what you mean, and I'm sure there are some bi people who aren't attracted to some trans people based on their bodyparts.

Aaminah Khan · 1:50 AM

that has personally never been a consideration of mine.

Katie Klabusich · 1:50 AM

That's not a poly thing. That's a pan thing.

Aaminah Khan · 1:51 AM

katie is more qualified to speak about the conflation of pansexuality and polyamory than I am!

Katie Klabusich · 1:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“Yes- I think there are quite a few bi people who are in that camp.”

Aaminah Khan · 1:51 AM

like I said in my article, different people identify as bisexual for different reasons. it's not for me to say that their reasons are wrong, you know?

Katie Klabusich · 1:51 AM

I've never seen a conflation b/t pan and poly actually. This is a first for me. I'm a cis, straight woman. I'm probably flexible situationally,

Aaminah Khan · 1:52 AM

I've definitely seen the assumption that all poly people must be non-straight.

Katie Klabusich · 1:52 AM

but I don't seek out partners who ID other than male.

Katie Klabusich · 1:52 AM

I get assumptions that I'm specifically bi.

Aaminah Khan · 1:52 AM

it seems that people think you're either all bi, or you're all gay/lesbian (like a bunch of girls living together or something)

Katie Klabusich · 1:52 AM

Yes.

Katie Klabusich · 1:53 AM

Weeeeeeeeee, pillow fight!

Aaminah Khan · 1:53 AM

which is weird, because polygyny is a form of poly relationship where all participants are generally straight.

Aaminah Khan · 1:53 AM

and polyandry is too, generally. the multiple husbands don't have to be in relationships with each other.

Katie Klabusich · 1:53 AM

Careful. There you go with your logic and listening and such.

Aaminah Khan · 1:53 AM

you can argue about the healthiness of such setups, and people have in the past, but they're still kinds of poly relationship w/ straight participants.

Katie Klabusich · 1:54 AM

Agreed.

Aaminah Khan · 1:54 AM

personally, I'm not touching that one. it's not for me to say that two or more consenting adults are somehow doing relationships wrong when I don't know their business.

Katie Klabusich · 1:54 AM

Any kind/type/style/combo of relationship can be unhealthy or abusive.

Aaminah Khan · 1:54 AM

exactly.

Aaminah Khan · 1:54 AM

relationships aren't made healthy or unhealthy by the sexuality of the participants but rather by the attitudes and behaviours of the participants.

Katie Klabusich · 1:54 AM

Before we run out of time -- perish the thought! -- don't forget to follow Aaminah on twitter: @jaythenerdkid

Katie Klabusich · 1:54 AM

And read all her things.

Aaminah Khan · 1:55 AM

read ALL the things! :D

Aaminah Khan · 1:55 AM

I actually just signed on as a staff columnist at @therainbowhub so I'll hopefully get to talk a lot more about this in the future.

Katie Klabusich · 1:55 AM

And enjoy her American-ized time zone and Twitter activity time.

Aaminah Khan · 1:55 AM

(and be paid for it! whee!)

Katie Klabusich · 1:55 AM

Oh, awesome! Congrats!!

Aaminah Khan · 1:55 AM

well, I keep strange sleeping hours no matter where in the world I am, but I'm generally aligned with central time now, yes. XD

Aaminah Khan · 1:55 AM

and thanks!

Aaminah Khan · 1:55 AM

does anyone have any final questions or comments?

Katie Klabusich · 1:55 AM

Is there anything we missed that you want to sneak in?

Katie Klabusich · 1:55 AM

heh.

Aaminah Khan · 1:56 AM

you're too good at this XD

Katie Klabusich · 1:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from foul speech

“I have a Q about coming out. All people who ID as LGBTQ have to come out every day to perfect strangers. it's a common assumption to hear about bi (or even pan) ppl IDing themselves as gay to "make it easier" for straight ppl. thoughts? advice?”

Aaminah Khan · 1:56 AM

oh boy.

Katie Klabusich · 1:56 AM

Just thank you! Thank you both for doing this.

Katie Klabusich · 1:56 AM

I'll let Aaminah take that one while I thank everyone for coming and being patient at the beginning (our server accidentally updated or something)!

Aaminah Khan · 1:56 AM

this plays into passing privilege, which is a series of contingent privileges where you can gain some perks of being in the privileged class by "playing along" with them.

Aaminah Khan · 1:57 AM

people tell me I'm not "really" queer because I'm in a relationship with a man, for example.

Katie Klabusich · 1:57 AM

The transcript will be available immediately, so if you caught something, but almost, or want to ask a question later, it'll be here!

Aaminah Khan · 1:57 AM

the choice to out yourself or not out yourself is ALWAYS a personal one, whether or not you choose to do it for a cause.

Aaminah Khan · 1:57 AM

I don't think bi people in relationships owe it to anyone to come out if they don't want to, whether they're currently passing as straight or gay.

Aaminah Khan · 1:58 AM

there's definitely a lot of pressure on bi people to perform as queer to aid gay and lesbian visibility, which is EXTREMELY unfair.

Aaminah Khan · 1:58 AM

I'm not going to date someone just to aid the movement, you know?

Aaminah Khan · 1:59 AM

and asking bisexuals to perform in that way erases THEIR identities, repositioning them as straight or gay when they're not.

Aaminah Khan · 1:59 AM

alan cumming has a great bit about that, actually.

Aaminah Khan · 1:59 AM

he's bisexual but often portrayed as gay because he's in a relationship with a man.

Aaminah Khan · 1:59 AM

megan fox, of all people, has also talked about it.

Katie Klabusich · 1:59 AM

Yeah, because there are NO other ways to help. WTF

Aaminah Khan · 1:59 AM

she's also bi, which a lot of people either don't know or assume was fake ("she must have been doing it for attention!")

Aaminah Khan · 2:00 AM

I mean, she's megan freaking fox, did she really NEED the extra attention? :P

Aaminah Khan · 2:00 AM

angelina jolie has also talked about it, I believe. bi people are around, we're just often erased and turned into something else by the media.

Aaminah Khan · 2:00 AM

I hope that answered your question!

Aaminah Khan · 2:00 AM

I wish we could keep going for another hour!

Aaminah Khan · 2:00 AM

thank you all so much for coming.

Katie Klabusich · 2:01 AM

Ha! I'll have you back I'm sure!

Katie Klabusich · 2:01 AM

Thank you SO MUCH! xo

Katie Klabusich · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Miltiades Grammenos

“Thank you! <3”

Katie Klabusich · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Heidi Gerbracht

“Thanks y'all!”

Katie Klabusich · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from foul speech

“Yes thanks everyone!”

Aaminah Khan · 2:01 AM

so glad y'all enjoyed it!

Katie Klabusich · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Brittney White

“Thank you!”

Forum · 26

Forum· 26 comments

2,008 visitors

Rodrigo A. BartelsAug 12, 2014, 1:07 AM★ Spotlighted

Hi!

Lucas NguyenAug 12, 2014, 1:12 AM★ Spotlighted

So glad you two are doing this chat!

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:15 AM★ Spotlighted

I find the micro aggressions from other non-straight folks to be the most painful... kind of expect it from straight folks sometimes, but whoa, the zingers from other non-hetero folks REALLY hurt.

Brittney WhiteAug 12, 2014, 1:24 AM★ Spotlighted

One thing I've noticed is whenever there is a bisexual person in a tv show in particular, they avoid using the word "bisexual" as much as possible.

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:24 AM★ Spotlighted

They don't call themselves anything, but there are characters on True Blood that have partners of different genders. But of course, that whole show feeds into the oversexed stereotype.

Miltiades GrammenosAug 12, 2014, 1:33 AM★ Spotlighted

From my experience it's, it's about trust. Being bi makes us untrustworthy

foul speechAug 12, 2014, 1:35 AM★ Spotlighted

I find that with bisexual women, people assume they are experimenting straight women but with bisexual men they are closeted gay men which is very patriarchal to me because the rhetoric reflects that women always like guys and men only like guys

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:37 AM★ Spotlighted

It's a subtle cue from the language. "Bisexual" refers to who you sleep with. Lesbian and gay doesn't have the word "sex" in it... There are certainly people who identify as bi who aren't interested in relationships with same gender, just sex, and

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:37 AM★ Spotlighted

vice versa

foul speechAug 12, 2014, 1:43 AM★ Spotlighted

isn't there always cognitive dissonance when oppression is involved? I've never heard a logical, consistent argument for oppression

foul speechAug 12, 2014, 1:45 AM★ Spotlighted

I think a huge part to biphobia is war on agency. especially when it comes to women, they are not keeping themselves in a box. this way men don't know if they are "available" to them like they would know a straight woman isn't or a lesbian is not

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:46 AM★ Spotlighted

Can you talk more about "caring about the gender of your partner" vs. "not discriminating" in your choice of partner based on gender?

foul speechAug 12, 2014, 1:46 AM★ Spotlighted

a straight woman is*

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:47 AM★ Spotlighted

I'm asking because your definition of pan was the opposite of what I've heard from pan people.

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:48 AM★ Spotlighted

Mainly the thing they said is that they are into trans folks as well as cis men and women.

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:50 AM★ Spotlighted

I hear you- but I think they meant folks who are transitioning or who have different anatomical parts than the gender they present.

foul speechAug 12, 2014, 1:50 AM

nor would I say (from personal experience) that bisexuality necessarily precludes attraction to non-binary people. bisexual people can be attracted (romantically or physically) to NB ppl, it's when attracted to male/female I look for certain traits

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 1:51 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes- I think there are quite a few bi people who are in that camp.

foul speechAug 12, 2014, 1:56 AM★ Spotlighted

I have a Q about coming out. All people who ID as LGBTQ have to come out every day to perfect strangers. it's a common assumption to hear about bi (or even pan) ppl IDing themselves as gay to "make it easier" for straight ppl. thoughts? advice?

Miltiades GrammenosAug 12, 2014, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Thank you! <3

Heidi GerbrachtAug 12, 2014, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Thanks y'all!

foul speechAug 12, 2014, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes thanks everyone!

Brittney WhiteAug 12, 2014, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Thank you!

Carlos RamosAug 16, 2014, 12:42 PM

Hello everyone

Peter PetrovAug 23, 2014, 12:17 PM

Heyy

Peter PetrovAug 23, 2014, 12:17 PM

Is there someone