Melanie Berliet

Host

Social Surrogacy: The New Choice?

Jun 18, 2014·31 visitors

Kayt Sukel

Cohost

Stage· 194 messages

Jun 18, 2014

It's impossible to predict how pregnancy will impact a woman's body—and her life overall for nine straight months. For those who aspire to motherhood but would rather sidestep the risks associated with carrying a child (morning sickness, insomnia, general discomfort, etc.), surrogacy is becoming a popular, albeit pricy, option. Should surrogacy be limited to those who resort to it for medical reasons? Or is "social" surrogacy a valuable service for the pregnancy shy career woman?

Kayt Sukel · 5:00 PM

Hello!

Kayt Sukel · 5:00 PM

I'm so excited to be back this week. I've missed you, Melanie.

Melanie Berliet · 5:00 PM

HELLO!

Kayt Sukel · 5:00 PM

And I'm psyched to talk about social surrogacy.

Melanie Berliet · 5:01 PM

Me too. For starters, here's the Elle article on social surrogacy that inspired this topic: Elle article on social surrogacynhttp://bit.ly/1gHmStU

Melanie Berliet · 5:01 PM

Kayt, what do you think of the notion of surrogacy in the the name of protecting your career?

Kayt Sukel · 5:01 PM

I think it's an interesting notion.

Melanie Berliet · 5:01 PM

Were you every afraid of how pregnancy might impact your work?

Kayt Sukel · 5:02 PM

I mean, when we talk about "having it all," though I hate that phrase, we recognize that you have to outsource a lot of stuff that was once considered to be "women's work."

Melanie Berliet · 5:02 PM

(For the record, I have never been pregnant)

Kayt Sukel · 5:02 PM

And if I'm willing to pay someone to wash my dirty underwear, why not have a baby for me?

Kayt Sukel · 5:02 PM

I was very afraid of how pregnancy would affect my work.

Kayt Sukel · 5:02 PM

Everyone had horror stories! I could be sick, I could be fired!

Melanie Berliet · 5:03 PM

The scary part to me is just how difficult it is to predict how pregnancy will affect your body and your life overall

Kayt Sukel · 5:03 PM

And, at the time, I was actually in between jobs, so I was very worried about how it would look to would-be employers with my big belly walking into the interview room.

Melanie Berliet · 5:03 PM

Women seem to have such different experiences

Kayt Sukel · 5:03 PM

And when I was offered a full-time gig with an hour plus commute, I ended up turning it down because I was preggers.

Melanie Berliet · 5:03 PM

How did people respond to your belly in an interview room?

Kayt Sukel · 5:03 PM

I mean, it wouldn't be sustainable.

Melanie Berliet · 5:04 PM

Right. It's definitely a big change in pace for 9-plus months

Kayt Sukel · 5:04 PM

In theory, employers can't discriminate against a pregnant jobseeker.

Kayt Sukel · 5:04 PM

But they definitely asked questions about my plans, how I'd handle maternity leave, etc.

Melanie Berliet · 5:04 PM

Of course

Melanie Berliet · 5:05 PM

I can definitely relate to the fear of how pregnancy would impact my work. My career is largely why I have not yet had a child.

Kayt Sukel · 5:05 PM

And as a freelancer? It's tough.

Melanie Berliet · 5:05 PM

I fear morning sickness, fatigue, general discomfort. I'm not a good writer on lack of sleep, or when I'm in a bad mood. that's a fact.

Kayt Sukel · 5:05 PM

If you are in charge of your own writing, marketing and accounts stuff, what happens when you can't work?

Kayt Sukel · 5:05 PM

But is the answer a good assistant? Or having someone else bake your baby for you?

Melanie Berliet · 5:05 PM

right.

Kayt Sukel · 5:06 PM

And, as usual, when it comes to women's issues, I think the answer is "it depends."

Melanie Berliet · 5:06 PM

then of course there is the issue of women who choose surrogacy to avoid the impact pregnancy might have on their bodies

Melanie Berliet · 5:06 PM

There were rumors that Camille Grammer from The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills used a surrogate to avoid the affect on her trim figure

Kayt Sukel · 5:07 PM

Pregnancy does take a toll. I'm 9 years past my due date and I still haven't completely lost the baby weight.

Kayt Sukel · 5:07 PM

Given that it has been 9 years, I probably should stop calling it baby weight. =)

Melanie Berliet · 5:08 PM

Do you think it's important to pinpoint a person's motivation for going the social surrogacy route? Whether out of vanity or for career reasons? It would be dicy territory to go there....

Kayt Sukel · 5:09 PM

Well, I think for actresses, a body is part of their career, right?

Kayt Sukel · 5:09 PM

Can you really tease the two apart?

Melanie Berliet · 5:09 PM

Ah yes. Very good point.

Melanie Berliet · 5:10 PM

I had not thought of it that way.

Kayt Sukel · 5:10 PM

And is hiring a surrogate any different than getting a boob job or a tummy tuck?

Melanie Berliet · 5:10 PM

I suppose you could argue that how one looks matters in many fields.

Kayt Sukel · 5:10 PM

Philosophically?

Melanie Berliet · 5:10 PM

Nope.

Kayt Sukel · 5:10 PM

I hope you don't need washboard abs to run a Fortune 500 company!

Melanie Berliet · 5:10 PM

Or hiring a nanny

Kayt Sukel · 5:10 PM

Or a wet nurse.

Melanie Berliet · 5:11 PM

well within reason, looks can matter. as you were saying you feared how people might view your belly

Melanie Berliet · 5:11 PM

What do you think are the main risks to outsourcing pregnancy?

Melanie Berliet · 5:11 PM

Missing out on the experience? Or lack of control over what the surrogate does/eats/etc.?

Melanie Berliet · 5:12 PM

I would feel uneasy about the idea of another woman's decisions impacting my fetus...

Melanie Berliet · 5:12 PM

(FYI: Kayt is experiencing some power outage issues do to storms in Texas)

Kayt Sukel · 5:13 PM

It's the experience.

Kayt Sukel · 5:13 PM

Sure, you are hosting a parasite.

Kayt Sukel · 5:13 PM

But it's something.

Kayt Sukel · 5:14 PM

I mean, you really do start bonding with that baby before you give birth.

Kayt Sukel · 5:14 PM

And pregnancy makes changes to your brain and body to help you bond with your children. So you are missing Mother Nature's preparation for parenthood.

Kayt Sukel · 5:14 PM

And you raise a good point about how another woman's choices may affect your child.

Melanie Berliet · 5:15 PM

yeah. I mean, everything you eat matter, correct?

Melanie Berliet · 5:15 PM

you're the scientist!

Melanie Berliet · 5:15 PM

even what you think might matter, right?

Kayt Sukel · 5:15 PM

Well, it depends on where you are.

Kayt Sukel · 5:15 PM

I was in Europe while I was pregnant. So I was told no deli meats or raw fish. But a couple ounces of wine with food was A-OK.

Melanie Berliet · 5:16 PM

right. I thought you meant how far along you are in the pregnancy at first. but it's about cultural differences too

Melanie Berliet · 5:16 PM

Here's another interesting risk

Melanie Berliet · 5:17 PM

I was watching a wonderfully cheesy Lifetime film called Sorority Surrogate in which the biological mom and dad die during the pregnancy, which left the surrogate in a tricky place.

Kayt Sukel · 5:17 PM

That would be tricky.

Melanie Berliet · 5:17 PM

Of course there are legal documents addressing such issues, but the risk is still there

Kayt Sukel · 5:17 PM

But it's a valid issue. What happens?

Kayt Sukel · 5:17 PM

I know there was one case about 10 years ago where the baby ended up being born with Down Syndrome and the parents didn't want him.

Kayt Sukel · 5:18 PM

The surrogate sued.

Melanie Berliet · 5:18 PM

sued for custody?

Kayt Sukel · 5:18 PM

No, sued the parents to take him anyway.

Melanie Berliet · 5:18 PM

Ohhhhhh

Kayt Sukel · 5:18 PM

Or at least pay for his care for the rest of his life

Melanie Berliet · 5:18 PM

That's a interesting conundrum

Kayt Sukel · 5:18 PM

She argued, and as I recall, successfully, that they were the baby's true parents.

Kayt Sukel · 5:19 PM

What I found really interesting about this topic is that military wives often act as surrogates.

Kayt Sukel · 5:19 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/military-wives-surrogates-carrying-babies-love-money/story?id=11882687&singlePage=true

Kayt Sukel · 5:19 PM

The trend really grew during the past 10 years of war.

Melanie Berliet · 5:19 PM

Do they do it for the money?

Kayt Sukel · 5:19 PM

Their husbands go off to war for a year and, during that time, they give birth to another couple's baby.

Melanie Berliet · 5:20 PM

I mean, that makes sense to me.

Kayt Sukel · 5:20 PM

They do it partially for the money--but many also do it because they enjoy being pregnant or feel like they are giving back to couples who can't have children.

Melanie Berliet · 5:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sasha A. Tcherevkoff

“I would never tell a woman what she can do with her body, but social surrogacy just seems so wrong.”

Kayt Sukel · 5:20 PM

I'd be curious how they'd feel about having a baby for a woman who just didn't want to gain weight!

Kayt Sukel · 5:20 PM

Sasha, why so wrong?

Kayt Sukel · 5:21 PM

If we outsource cooking and cleaning, why not pregnancy?

Kayt Sukel · 5:21 PM

What's the line?

Melanie Berliet · 5:21 PM

One lady writing for the HuffPo argues that women who elect not to be pregnant would make unfit mothers because they're clearly selfish: http://huff.to/UMly5e

Kayt Sukel · 5:21 PM

Um, there are a lot of qualities that may make people unfit to be parents. Unfortunately, we cannot police them all.

Melanie Berliet · 5:22 PM

The angry HuffPo writer suggests that if a woman is unwilling to shelve her career for 9 months, she's going to be unwilling to deal with all the sudden challenges presented by childrearing

Kayt Sukel · 5:22 PM

If we support a woman's right to choose, isn't social surrogacy just one more choice some women have?

Melanie Berliet · 5:22 PM

I would agree with that

Kayt Sukel · 5:22 PM

The one thing that concerns me is the class/financial aspect.

Kayt Sukel · 5:23 PM

Obviously, this is a choice open to very few wealthy women.

Melanie Berliet · 5:23 PM

There are women out there, however, who think that the choice not to have children is selfish. (Even women I know who have had abortions)

Melanie Berliet · 5:24 PM

though it's also an issue for the less financially well off in a way. because some might face the choice to be the surrogate for the wealthy couple for non medical reasons

Melanie Berliet · 5:24 PM

according to the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, surrogacy should be used only 'when a true medical condition precludes the intended parent from carrying a pregnancy...

Melanie Berliet · 5:24 PM

... or would pose a significant risk of death or harm to the woman or the fetus.

Kayt Sukel · 5:25 PM

What do they say about abortions?

Melanie Berliet · 5:26 PM

I'm not sure. Good question.

Kayt Sukel · 5:26 PM

That's kind of the class issue I'm talking about though. It means the have-nots are having babies for the haves. What kind of dynamic does that set up?

Melanie Berliet · 5:26 PM

I think some people would argue that it's impossible to KNOW that you don't want to be pregnant until you ARE pregnant. Just like some love to purport that you cannot know you want a child until you have one.

Kayt Sukel · 5:26 PM

And I think we need to think about how social surrogacy might affect both families.

Melanie Berliet · 5:26 PM

But there are definitely those who know!

Kayt Sukel · 5:27 PM

If you are a surrogate, how might that affect your spouse, kids, extended family?

Melanie Berliet · 5:27 PM

Yes, the class issue is important

Kayt Sukel · 5:27 PM

Especially if your choice is more financially driven?

Kayt Sukel · 5:27 PM

How might it affect the family of the person outsourcing the pregnancy? What if you had one baby the regular way and one by a surrogate?

Kayt Sukel · 5:27 PM

Obviously, like anything, your mileage will vary. But it's an interesting consideration.

Melanie Berliet · 5:28 PM

I have to admit that I once considered donating my eggs for the $8,000 I could fetch for them

Kayt Sukel · 5:28 PM

So what's the difference between donating eggs vs. giving birth?

Kayt Sukel · 5:28 PM

Except the time/pain commitment?

Melanie Berliet · 5:28 PM

I decided against it, but I think a lot of women resort to donating eggs for purely financial reasons rather than wanting to help out a couple. And that can become problematic for the egg donors psychologically at some point down the line

Kayt Sukel · 5:29 PM

And, of course, the potential emotional wrench of bonding with the baby growing inside your body.

Melanie Berliet · 5:29 PM

It's a lot less time consuming to donate eggs

Melanie Berliet · 5:29 PM

and it's not outwardly apparent

Kayt Sukel · 5:29 PM

I wonder if sperm donors have the same psychological fall-out?

Kayt Sukel · 5:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Nathalie Benareau

“I found that pregnancy is the least of the problems in the workplace, when the child arrives is when life starts being more complicated, especially in the workplace when you can't stay late anymore, or have to leave because you child is sick.”

Kayt Sukel · 5:29 PM

Nathalie, good point. But I think it depends on how you feel during your pregnancy.

Kayt Sukel · 5:30 PM

I have a friend who had to go on bed rest at about 5 months. She had to use her FMLA then--and didn't have ANY leave left once the baby actually came home.

Kayt Sukel · 5:31 PM

So much depends on your own experience.

Melanie Berliet · 5:31 PM

But for the average pregnancy I imagine Natalie's right that the major change comes later, once the baby is born.

Kayt Sukel · 5:31 PM

True.

Kayt Sukel · 5:31 PM

But, I have to say, while I think social surrogacy is a viable choice--it would be nice if companies would be more flexible when it comes to families so it wasn't necessary.

Kayt Sukel · 5:31 PM

I mean, that's kind of a core issue here.

Kayt Sukel · 5:32 PM

If there was more support for working mothers, most of the arguments for social surrogacy would be moot.

Melanie Berliet · 5:32 PM

That's a very good point. I can't believe how short maternity leave is for most of my friends. And that men are generally not granted paternity leave in this country is ridiculous!

Melanie Berliet · 5:32 PM

Why is it the people tend to get all holier than thou when it comes to pregnancy?

Kayt Sukel · 5:33 PM

You must elaborate.

Melanie Berliet · 5:33 PM

I'm talking about the people who like to frame the choice of natural childbirth as a moral choice

Kayt Sukel · 5:33 PM

Dude, I don't know.

Kayt Sukel · 5:33 PM

I think because we are all afraid and clueless--and we clutch on to anything we think is "best" so we aren't totally flailing around.

Melanie Berliet · 5:33 PM

Apparently that is the widespread belief amongst the contributors to this book, Labor Day: Birth Stories for the Twenty-First Century http://amzn.to/1yjfK2k

Kayt Sukel · 5:33 PM

Women, in general, can be quite mean to each other. But Moms? They can be downright NASTY.

Kayt Sukel · 5:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sasha A. Tcherevkoff

“I think you already state it very clearly: "And pregnancy makes changes to your brain and body to help you bond with your children."”

Melanie Berliet · 5:34 PM

Right, how can there be a "right" or a "wrong" way to do labor? it’s damaging to perpetuate a one-size-fits-all approach to having babies.

Kayt Sukel · 5:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Nathalie Benareau

“exactly! which is why pregnancy has to be turned into something positive, surrogate pregnancy emphasizes the fact that women can't work and have children at the same time, which is so wrong!”

Kayt Sukel · 5:34 PM

Nathalie, I agree. I would love to see more family-friendly policies in the workplace. From pregnancy until school age.

Kayt Sukel · 5:35 PM

Living in Europe made me see how possible it is.

Kayt Sukel · 5:35 PM

Melanie, there is a whole industry of "you're doing it wrong, stupid!" when it comes to pregnancy and parenting.

Kayt Sukel · 5:35 PM

And people love it--at least if you go by the New York Times bestseller list.

Kayt Sukel · 5:35 PM

We want easy-to-follow, one-size-fits-all kind of rules.

Kayt Sukel · 5:36 PM

And I'm convinced it's because, deep down, none of us is quite sure of what we're doing.

Melanie Berliet · 5:36 PM

It does make sense that the social surrogacy trend is an offshoot of unfair workplace policies. Still, I don't think it's wrong. Even if, as Sasha reiterates, pregnancy enables your brain to start adjusting to being a mother

Kayt Sukel · 5:36 PM

While that is the more "natural" approach to bonding, it isn't the only way.

Melanie Berliet · 5:37 PM

I mean, men don't have the luxury of being pregnant but no one worries that they'll be below par parents

Kayt Sukel · 5:37 PM

Adoptive parents certainly do bond with their kids, even if they aren't related.

Kayt Sukel · 5:37 PM

Men get extra high fives if they change a diaper once a week!

Melanie Berliet · 5:37 PM

I would also venture that there are some women who hate being pregnant so much that it makes them somewhat resentful of their child upon birth

Melanie Berliet · 5:37 PM

It's possible!

Kayt Sukel · 5:37 PM

And yet, as more men take on the role of stay-at-home parents, I think that will change a bit.

Kayt Sukel · 5:38 PM

(BTW, we are going to talk about stay at home Dads in two weeks)

Kayt Sukel · 5:38 PM

I know women who LOVE being pregnant.

Kayt Sukel · 5:38 PM

They would do it again and again if they could.

Kayt Sukel · 5:38 PM

Others feel like they have an alien living inside their gut.

Kayt Sukel · 5:38 PM

★ Spotlighted from Nathalie Benareau

“I loved being pregnant!”

Melanie Berliet · 5:38 PM

Yeah, I've heard both sides of the spectrum

Melanie Berliet · 5:38 PM

I hope I am one of the ones who loves it

Kayt Sukel · 5:38 PM

I hope so, too!

Kayt Sukel · 5:39 PM

If not, you can outsource the second one. =)

Melanie Berliet · 5:39 PM

I've also heard (Kayt, tell me if this is pseudoscience) that our bodies/brains make us believe that we loved being pregnant in retrospect so that we do it all again!

Kayt Sukel · 5:39 PM

That's pseudoscience.

Kayt Sukel · 5:39 PM

But we don't have keen memories of the pain involved with the birth process.

Melanie Berliet · 5:39 PM

It sounded so

Kayt Sukel · 5:40 PM

I think we fall in love with our babies. And that makes it all seem worth it--awful pregnancy or not.

Melanie Berliet · 5:40 PM

How often do you think surrogates fall in love with the babies they birth?

Kayt Sukel · 5:40 PM

I'm sure it happens.

Melanie Berliet · 5:40 PM

That must be painful

Kayt Sukel · 5:40 PM

Just as it does with mothers who choose to put their babies up for adoption.

Kayt Sukel · 5:41 PM

I imagine it would be.

Kayt Sukel · 5:41 PM

But maybe not as painful as raising a child when you don't have the financial/social/emotional resources.

Melanie Berliet · 5:41 PM

Right. Although with surrogacy I imagine it's a lot harder to present a case that the child is yours, whereas the women who choose to give their children up for adoption know on some level that they can change their minds

Kayt Sukel · 5:42 PM

I imagine, legally, it would come down to whether or not the child was biologically related to the carrying mother.

Kayt Sukel · 5:42 PM

If not, she's a vehicle, not a Mom.

Melanie Berliet · 5:42 PM

The financial issue is definitely a big one

Kayt Sukel · 5:42 PM

(Legally, I mean).

Melanie Berliet · 5:42 PM

So many people say "there's never a right time" when it comes to having a child

Melanie Berliet · 5:43 PM

but I honestly believe that there are times that are more right than others for most of us.

Kayt Sukel · 5:43 PM

I think, social surrogacy is a choice. And a viable one. And I wonder, as women gain more traction in industry, what kind of other choices will come up.

Kayt Sukel · 5:43 PM

But, I think, in the end, your mileage will vary. And it's hard to take a "this is wrong for everyone" kind of view.

Melanie Berliet · 5:44 PM

Yes. And one day soon I imagine there will be a viral video about the choice to go the social surrogacy route, just as there was viral abortion video: http://bit.ly/1ngql5r

Kayt Sukel · 5:44 PM

No doubt.

Melanie Berliet · 5:44 PM

Every trend needs its viral video!

Melanie Berliet · 5:44 PM

But we are probably a long way from tehre

Kayt Sukel · 5:44 PM

We'll see where we are in 10 years.

Melanie Berliet · 5:45 PM

rent a womb dot com

Kayt Sukel · 5:45 PM

HA!

Kayt Sukel · 5:45 PM

And on that note, I think we'll close.

Kayt Sukel · 5:45 PM

Once again, a pleasure, Melanie!

Melanie Berliet · 5:45 PM

Yes! Good-bye for now!

Melanie Berliet · 5:45 PM

Always a delight, Kayt.

Melanie Berliet · 5:45 PM

Feel free to email us with ideas. melanie.berliet@gmail.com

Kayt Sukel · 5:46 PM

Or info@kaytsukel.com. Until next time!

Forum · 8

Forum· 8 comments

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Sasha A. TcherevkoffJun 18, 2014, 5:20 PM★ Spotlighted

I would never tell a woman what she can do with her body, but social surrogacy just seems so wrong.

Nathalie BenareauJun 18, 2014, 5:29 PM★ Spotlighted

I found that pregnancy is the least of the problems in the workplace, when the child arrives is when life starts being more complicated, especially in the workplace when you can't stay late anymore, or have to leave because you child is sick.

Sasha A. TcherevkoffJun 18, 2014, 5:33 PM★ Spotlighted

I think you already state it very clearly: "And pregnancy makes changes to your brain and body to help you bond with your children."

Nathalie BenareauJun 18, 2014, 5:34 PM★ Spotlighted

exactly! which is why pregnancy has to be turned into something positive, surrogate pregnancy emphasizes the fact that women can't work and have children at the same time, which is so wrong!

Nathalie BenareauJun 18, 2014, 5:38 PM★ Spotlighted

I loved being pregnant!

حح

حسبن حسنAug 1, 2014, 6:30 PM

حح

حسبن حسنAug 1, 2014, 6:30 PM