Philip Dobard, VP of the SoFAB Institute, and Philip Greene, a founder of The Museum of the American Cocktail, one of SoFAB's signature collections, discuss seasonal spirits. Cocktail historian, attorney, and Renaissance man Phil Greene is the author of TO HAVE AND HAVE ANOTHER: A HEMINGWAY COCKTAIL COMPANION.
PD
Philip Dobard · 12:10 AM
★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin
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Philip Dobard · 1:00 AM
Good evening Tawkers!
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Philip Greene · 1:01 AM
Happy Holidays, everyone!
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Philip Dobard · 1:01 AM
Philip Dobard here. Joining me is Philip Greene.
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Philip Dobard · 1:02 AM
To distinguish between the two of us, I think I'll go by "Philip" tonight.
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Philip Dobard · 1:02 AM
Mr. Greene, are you good with going by "Phil"?
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Philip Greene · 1:02 AM
Phil works!
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Philip Dobard · 1:02 AM
So, Phil, tell us a bit about yourself.
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Philip Greene · 1:02 AM
Perhaps they can call us Phil and RePhil. Sorry.
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Philip Dobard · 1:03 AM
Phil 'er up!
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Philip Dobard · 1:03 AM
★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum
“Let's drink and be merry!”
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Philip Greene · 1:03 AM
Let's see, I'm an attorney in my "real" life, Trademark and Internet Counsel at the Pentagon for the USMC, but on the side I'm one of the founders of the Museum of the American Cocktail
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Philip Dobard · 1:04 AM
AKA MOTAC
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Philip Greene · 1:04 AM
And last year I published To Have and have Another - A Hemingway Cocktail Companion, sort of a bartender's guide to Papa
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Philip Dobard · 1:04 AM
Papa...?
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Philip Dobard · 1:04 AM
Hemingway!
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Philip Greene · 1:04 AM
55 authentic recipes all taken from his novels, short stories, letters, etc., Papa being Hemingway's nickname
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Philip Dobard · 1:04 AM
Of course.
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Philip Dobard · 1:05 AM
And a great play on words, I think.
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Philip Greene · 1:05 AM
The name came to me back in 2008, the first time I presented a Hemingway cocktail seminar, at Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans
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Philip Dobard · 1:05 AM
Great event!
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Philip Greene · 1:05 AM
★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum
“So you recommend regular drinking with your Hemingway?”
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Philip Dobard · 1:05 AM
A monster of an event.
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Philip Greene · 1:06 AM
Not sure what Jordan means by "regular drinking," but in my book I go drink by drink, alphabetically, and cover where you can find that drink mentioned in, say, Islands in the Stream, For Whom the Bell Tolls, etc
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Philip Dobard · 1:07 AM
A Hemingway mixology concordance, if you will.
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Philip Greene · 1:07 AM
So you can fix a Martini and enjoy the passage from The Sun Also Rises where Brett and Jake have a few at the hotel bar in madrid.
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Philip Greene · 1:07 AM
Correct!
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Philip Greene · 1:07 AM
A mixable feast, some have said
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Philip Dobard · 1:07 AM
Tell us a bit about what you and its co-founders motivated you to establish MOTAC.
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Philip Greene · 1:08 AM
Philip, I think everyone out there's still mixing their drink! ;-)
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Philip Dobard · 1:08 AM
Waste not...
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Philip Greene · 1:08 AM
Back in 2004 I was fortunate enough to fall in with some amazing folks who were already in the process of starting MOTAC
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Philip Dobard · 1:08 AM
Dale DeGroff et al.
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Philip Greene · 1:08 AM
People like Dale and Jill DeGroff, Ted Haigh, et al
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Philip Greene · 1:09 AM
And because of my New Orlleans roots (cousin to Antoine Peychaud, creator of peychaud's bitters, the Sazerac, etc., and my knowledge of New Orleans history and folklore, they invited me to join the group
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Philip Dobard · 1:10 AM
From one New Orleanian to another, what led you to establish the physical collection in N.O.?
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Philip Greene · 1:10 AM
For the first year MOTAC had an exhibit at the Pharmacy Museum in NOLA, then partnered with Southern Food and Bev. Museum (SoFAB), with whom we're relaunching our amazing new facility next spring!
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Philip Dobard · 1:11 AM
Indeed. We've joined forces, formed the SoFAB Institute. And now we're introducing programming out here in Los Angeles!
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Philip Greene · 1:11 AM
Because of New Orleans' rich cocktail history, from the old haunts like the Sazerac Coffee House, to the Cafe Refugies, to the Stag to the Imperial Cabinet, the classics like the Ramos Gin Fizz and the Vieux Carre, New Orleans is a great home to MOTA
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Philip Dobard · 1:12 AM
Yes, the Crescent City has quite the cocktail pedigree.
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Philip Dobard · 1:12 AM
And so do you, Peychaud, Sazerac, etc. and et al.
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Philip Greene · 1:12 AM
Many will tell you that the Sazerac was the world's first cocktail, and me, like a true moron know-it-all, I had to go disprove that story!
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Philip Dobard · 1:12 AM
A revolutionary.
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Philip Greene · 1:13 AM
Peychaud did in fact invent his bitters and they were in fact used in the first Sazerac, but it was about 50 years after everyone thought!
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Philip Dobard · 1:13 AM
History recedes.
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Philip Dobard · 1:13 AM
Memory recreates it.
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Philip Greene · 1:13 AM
After all, the first time the word appeared in print was something like 1803, and first time defined in the newspaper was 1806, when Peychaud was 3!
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Philip Dobard · 1:14 AM
A prodigy!
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Philip Greene · 1:14 AM
★ Spotlighted from Jordan Birnbaum
“It sounds like the basis for a great vacation adventure...”
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Philip Greene · 1:14 AM
Yes, come to New Orleans next year and learn all about great food and drink at the new SoFAB Institute, of which MOTAC will be a key piece. Philip,can you tell us more?
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Philip Dobard · 1:14 AM
Yep.
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Philip Dobard · 1:15 AM
We're currently renovating the old Dryades Market, one of the city's many Victorian-era public markets.
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Philip Dobard · 1:15 AM
About 15K square feet of space will house our two signature collections: the Southern Food & Beverage Museum and The Museum of the American Cocktail.
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Philip Greene · 1:16 AM
Oh, since it is the Holidays, and we were talking Hemingway, here's a recipe that's been very well received of late (garnering two notices at last summer's Tales!) Hemingway Hot Rum Punch
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Philip Greene · 1:16 AM
Hemingway Hot Rum Punchn9 oz Papa’s Pilar Blonde Rumn6 oz Papa’s Pilar Dark Rumn6 oz Cognac Ferrand 1840n15 oz watern4 1/2 oz lemon juicen3 oz lime juicen3 oz Depaz Cane Syrup (from Martinique), or brown sugar simple syrup
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Philip Dobard · 1:16 AM
Ah yes, seasonal spirits.
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Philip Dobard · 1:16 AM
Screen shot!
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Philip Greene · 1:16 AM
Add all ingredients to a pot, set on stove on low, simmer for 30 minutes, stirring occasionally. Serve in punch cup, Irish coffee glass, sturdy wine glass, or rocks glass. Garnish with lemon peel.
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Philip Dobard · 1:17 AM
By the way, everyone, all of this is archived at sofabinstitute.org/tawkers.
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Philip Dobard · 1:17 AM
Phil, when you did develop/discover your passion for, well, spirits?
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Philip Dobard · 1:18 AM
Was it via Hemingway? Or the other way 'round?
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Philip Greene · 1:18 AM
That recipe is stolen, ahem, inspired by Charles Baker's great punch in his classic book The Gentleman's Companion, Book II
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Philip Dobard · 1:18 AM
Our secret.
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Philip Greene · 1:19 AM
Well, I started as a craft beer buff, mid 1980s when that boom was happening, then late 1980s into the 90s I became a wine aficianado, then eventually learning more about cocktails and their histories
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Philip Dobard · 1:19 AM
So beer is a gateway drug?
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Philip Greene · 1:19 AM
I think living and attending school in New Orleans (Loyola Law 1986) created in me a great love of food, drink, and the rich stories behind them
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Philip Greene · 1:19 AM
Yes, leads straight to the hard stuff! Too easy
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Philip Dobard · 1:19 AM
A gateway libation, rather.
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Philip Dobard · 1:20 AM
Low-hanging fruit.
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Philip Dobard · 1:20 AM
Do you indulge in beer and wine cocktails?
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Philip Greene · 1:21 AM
What I find fun and interesting about the whole concept of "cocktail history" is that the stories behind the drinks, the venues, the drinkers, etc., all pretty fascinating, belies the notion that history has to be dry (ok, another one)'
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Philip Dobard · 1:21 AM
Rim shot.
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Philip Greene · 1:21 AM
I've created a few beer-based cocktails, one that got some nice reviews, called the Brewin' Storm, it had Depaz Rhum agricole, another rum, plus Domaine de Canton and a nice crisp French beer
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Philip Dobard · 1:22 AM
All good.
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Philip Greene · 1:22 AM
and there are some classic wine cocktails out there, like the French 75.
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Philip Dobard · 1:22 AM
Love the French 75.
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Philip Greene · 1:22 AM
One of my favorite Hemingway drinks is a mix of dry and sweet vermouth with Angostura, called the Vermouth Panache, I found it listed in his fishing logs
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Philip Dobard · 1:22 AM
So then, liquor led you to Hemingway?
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Philip Greene · 1:23 AM
Not really. The first Hemingway story that "hooked" me, no pun intended, was Big Two-Hearted River, no drinkin' in that at all
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Philip Dobard · 1:23 AM
A dry tale.
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Philip Greene · 1:23 AM
I just came to love how well and vividly he described the scene, the setting and what his characters were doing
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Philip Greene · 1:24 AM
so when it came to his characters drinking and eating, I naturally wanted to know WHAT they were drinking
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Philip Dobard · 1:24 AM
Yes, he was particularly good at that. Witness the bullfight in FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS.
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Philip Greene · 1:24 AM
But Hemingway did "turn me on" to drinks like the Americano, and Campari, also Holland Gin (which I didn't much care for before) Try a drink called the Death in the Gulf Stream, might change your mind about Holland Gin/Genever!
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Philip Dobard · 1:25 AM
:-)
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Philip Dobard · 1:25 AM
I'm willing to test your theory.
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Philip Greene · 1:25 AM
And I never thought I'd enjoy a drink made solely of vermouth, but it's delicious!
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Philip Greene · 1:26 AM
a good way to dispose of opened bottles of vermouth, if you fear you won't make enough Martinis or Manhattans to use it up (perish the thought, right?)
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Philip Dobard · 1:26 AM
TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT is one of my favorite films. I know it wasn't one of Hemingway's favorite adaptations of his works.
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Philip Greene · 1:27 AM
Yeah, well he always said that the only screen adaptation he really liked was The Killers. He groused about the film version of Snows of Kilimanjaro, said something like "They got it just about right, stuck to the story all the way, well,...
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Philip Dobard · 1:27 AM
Did you try punning any of his other titles before settling on this one?
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Philip Greene · 1:27 AM
except they had the guy live at the end
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Philip Dobard · 1:27 AM
Hollywood ending.
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Philip Greene · 1:28 AM
Oh, people have said "For Whom the Happy Hour Bell Tolls" or Vermouth the Bell Tolls, or The Sun Also Rises ... With a Hangover
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Philip Dobard · 1:28 AM
Follow-up tomes.
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Philip Greene · 1:28 AM
To have and Have Not is a great film, how can you go wrong with Bogie and Bacall, but not the same story as Hem's novel!
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Philip Dobard · 1:28 AM
A derivative work in the very best sense.
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Philip Greene · 1:29 AM
And so what if Bacall isn't a singer, she's so sultry you can overlook it!
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Philip Dobard · 1:29 AM
Well, Hoagy Carmichael did wonders supporting her.
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Philip Greene · 1:30 AM
Well, maybe Dooley Wilson was booked!
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Philip Dobard · 1:30 AM
Indeed. By the way, was you ever stung by a dead bee?
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Philip Greene · 1:30 AM
No, love Hoagy Carmichael, he was great.
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Philip Greene · 1:30 AM
a dead bee, .... I'm only partly getting the reference!
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Philip Dobard · 1:31 AM
Walter Brennan's character to anyone who would listen.
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Philip Greene · 1:31 AM
Ahhhh, of course. One of those lines like Gene Hackman and "do you clean your toes?"
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Philip Dobard · 1:31 AM
Yes!
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Philip Greene · 1:31 AM
well, somehow we've gone off the tracks!
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Philip Dobard · 1:32 AM
A mere diversion.
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Philip Dobard · 1:32 AM
We're at about the end of our time here tonight. Aside from always imbibe with food, any seasonal cocktail advice you can offer?
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Philip Greene · 1:33 AM
check out the Museum of the American Cocktail blog for some amazing Holiday recipes
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Philip Greene · 1:33 AM
Just to go with the classics, enhance them as you see fit, add your own take, if you will! And of course get a cab!
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Philip Dobard · 1:33 AM
Sound advice. Always.
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Philip Dobard · 1:34 AM
Thanks for joining us, everyone. And thanks, Phil, for joining me tonight.
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Philip Greene · 1:34 AM
It was my pleasure, I hope we can do it again sometime! Happy Holidays!! Have Another on me!
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Philip Dobard · 1:34 AM
Likewise. Hey, a quick plug for the book...
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Philip Dobard · 1:35 AM
TO HAVE AND HAVE ANOTHER...
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Philip Greene · 1:36 AM
Still a top seller on Amazon, happy to say http://amzn.to/18i3suR
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Philip Greene · 1:36 AM
and makes a great Holiday gift! Take care, Philip, thanks again!
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Philip Dobard · 1:36 AM
Bravo! Thanks again, Phil. Good night, all. Happy holidays!