Kenna James

Host

The Art of Bluffing

Jul 22, 2014·29 visitors

Blake Ian

Cohost

Stage· 166 messages

Jul 22, 2014

Is bluffing ethical? When is the right time to bluff? These questions and more to be discussed...

Kenna James · 11:00 PM

Hey All! I feel like shit, but I showed up anyway.

Kenna James · 11:01 PM

Just Bluffing! Lol

Blake Ian · 11:01 PM

Ahh feining weakness already to throw me off

Blake Ian · 11:01 PM

😉

Blake Ian · 11:02 PM

how's it going my man... You at the tables right now?

Kenna James · 11:02 PM

Fair warning, I'm playing In a Live 2-5 Game while I chat!

Blake Ian · 11:03 PM

Ill take that as yes

Blake Ian · 11:03 PM

2-5 game for anyone who may stumble upon this chat... The blinds are $2 and $5

Blake Ian · 11:03 PM

And is that a no limit game Mr James?

Kenna James · 11:04 PM

Of course!

Kenna James · 11:04 PM

Sry, just dragging a $200 pot.

Kenna James · 11:05 PM

Funny, I started off this session with a 3 barrel bluff.

Blake Ian · 11:05 PM

No worries, stack your chips you earned them im sure

Blake Ian · 11:05 PM

nice

Blake Ian · 11:06 PM

So what was the REASON you decided to bluff

Blake Ian · 11:06 PM

Since I know you don't do anything without a reason

Kenna James · 11:06 PM

Ah, good question

Blake Ian · 11:06 PM

Was it the player? Position?

Blake Ian · 11:06 PM

Limped pre flop and scary board?

Kenna James · 11:07 PM

True. Reasoning behind your actions is most important in poker.

Blake Ian · 11:07 PM

And in life

Kenna James · 11:07 PM

Kenna James · 11:08 PM

So I didn't start the hand looking to make a bluff. I raised with Queen Jack in early position and got three callers.

Kenna James · 11:09 PM

There was $60 in the pot and I decided to bluff the flop because it was a very dry board. 852 no suits

Kenna James · 11:09 PM

actually there was two hearts I apologize

Kenna James · 11:10 PM

Which is important, because when he called me and the other two folding I put him on a flush draw

Kenna James · 11:10 PM

So I decided to continue my bluff on the turn. Betting have to stop hoping he would fold with only one card to come

Kenna James · 11:10 PM

That should read half his stack LOL

Blake Ian · 11:11 PM

right and he called?

Blake Ian · 11:11 PM

No heart on river... All in

Blake Ian · 11:11 PM

Fold

Kenna James · 11:11 PM

Yes, he called me on the turn! Yikes!

Blake Ian · 11:11 PM

So then you were thinking maybe 55?

Blake Ian · 11:12 PM

Or 22

Blake Ian · 11:12 PM

But I guess not if you pulled the trigger on the river

Kenna James · 11:12 PM

he had about $150 left when the river came no heart. So I bet $100.

Blake Ian · 11:12 PM

Ok questions!

Kenna James · 11:12 PM

He showed me the King Jack of hearts and folded!

Blake Ian · 11:13 PM

He would have to be playing poorly to call that turn right?

Kenna James · 11:13 PM

I win the opening pot and start off winner.

Blake Ian · 11:13 PM

Congrats

Kenna James · 11:13 PM

correct. He should have shoved the turn if he was going to call because it was so much of his staff.

Blake Ian · 11:13 PM

Right

Kenna James · 11:13 PM

Stack!

Blake Ian · 11:14 PM

So at that point I would think he is a bad player OR he has a set

Blake Ian · 11:14 PM

Ahh but no because a set he needs to raise against two hearts on the board

Kenna James · 11:14 PM

but this is how you make a profit in poker. By exploiting and weaning off of other players mistakes.

Blake Ian · 11:14 PM

So nevermind

Kenna James · 11:15 PM

Winning! Lol my boo text keeps screwing up. Sry

Kenna James · 11:15 PM

Anyway, some players bluff too much, others don't bluff often enough.

Kenna James · 11:16 PM

There is an art to pulling off a successful bluff.

Blake Ian · 11:16 PM

and baby bear bluffs jusssssst right

Blake Ian · 11:16 PM

I have to say

Kenna James · 11:16 PM

Lol

Blake Ian · 11:17 PM

If I told you "I didn't start off intending to bluff, I raised in eqrly position with QJ"

Blake Ian · 11:17 PM

Your response would be "that IS a bluff"

Blake Ian · 11:17 PM

Haha

Kenna James · 11:17 PM

Lol. Actually I would just say you have a wide opening hand range from early position

Blake Ian · 11:17 PM

Isn't that a very weak hand in early position?

Kenna James · 11:18 PM

Weak is relative. Depends on table composition

Blake Ian · 11:18 PM

and what is your current table composition.

Kenna James · 11:18 PM

But generally, yes idiot.

Blake Ian · 11:19 PM

And since it was first hand how did you ascertain the composition so quickly

Kenna James · 11:19 PM

Lol. That was supposed to say it is not idiot! Wow

Blake Ian · 11:19 PM

it actually fit!

Blake Ian · 11:20 PM

I thought you were saying generally speaking it's an idiot play haha

Kenna James · 11:20 PM

Mostly by look (an older crowd) and a few hands that I witnessed I saw mostly limping

Kenna James · 11:20 PM

Which told me it was a very passive table, looking to be exploited by aggressiveness

Blake Ian · 11:20 PM

nice so you feel pretty good at that table

Blake Ian · 11:21 PM

That's a nice place for someone like you to be

Kenna James · 11:21 PM

Yes, but then I got moved.!

Kenna James · 11:21 PM

just like in music Blake, you get in the groove, and then the song is over.

Blake Ian · 11:21 PM

Haha indeed

Blake Ian · 11:22 PM

But there is always another song

Kenna James · 11:22 PM

So, did you have any questions for me regarding bluffing? I noticed you don't bluff too much.

Blake Ian · 11:22 PM

that just what I want you to think! 😊

Kenna James · 11:23 PM

Touché

Kenna James · 11:24 PM

The reason I bluffed my first hand is I really had no other way to win the pot on the river.

Kenna James · 11:25 PM

But the key to bluffing successfully, is having a proper setup.

Blake Ian · 11:25 PM

you winged it

Blake Ian · 11:25 PM

But you have the experience even though it's not recommended

Kenna James · 11:25 PM

Good way of putting it

Blake Ian · 11:26 PM

I can be in front of a big crowd and call an audible in my set list based on the crowd vibe

Blake Ian · 11:26 PM

But I would never advise that to someone starting out

Blake Ian · 11:26 PM

You could end up on your face

Kenna James · 11:26 PM

Exactly! Now that's talent.

Kenna James · 11:26 PM

Playing to what's in front of you or who rather, takes great skill.

Blake Ian · 11:27 PM

I always loved watching Daniel play on TV

Blake Ian · 11:27 PM

For that reason

Blake Ian · 11:27 PM

He had such a skill of reading the situation and acting accordingly that he could enter any hand with any two cards and never get stuck

Kenna James · 11:27 PM

Yes. Daniel is a good reader of people and adjusts his play accordingly

Blake Ian · 11:28 PM

Yeah two pretty big strengths

Kenna James · 11:28 PM

Correct. For example, one thing you don't want to do is try to bluff the sheriff. Otherwise known as the calling station.

Blake Ian · 11:28 PM

And apparently ones you posses as well

Kenna James · 11:28 PM

Thx

Blake Ian · 11:28 PM

Doyle says in super system "ya can't bluff an idiot"

Blake Ian · 11:29 PM

So true... Which is why an idiot can sometimes be a serious strength! Haha

Blake Ian · 11:29 PM

But only a hand at a time, in the long run they are left with nothing right?

Blake Ian · 11:29 PM

Too many unprofitable plays

Kenna James · 11:29 PM

Lol. True. I like to say, you can't beat stupid.

Blake Ian · 11:29 PM

Kenna James · 11:30 PM

To bluff a guy, he has to be a thinker or at least think logically and reasonably.

Kenna James · 11:30 PM

Which is insight to why you and I are getting bluffed and hustled all the time!

Blake Ian · 11:30 PM

hmmm similar situations in business

Blake Ian · 11:30 PM

hahah

Kenna James · 11:31 PM

Which takes us to number two key to successful bluffing.

Blake Ian · 11:31 PM

Took me a minute to realize that was a compliment

Kenna James · 11:31 PM

Your line of play must be logical and reasonable to your opponent.

Kenna James · 11:33 PM

It must make sense, in other words, that you have what you are representing.

Blake Ian · 11:33 PM

Sorry I was just reading that a few times haha

Blake Ian · 11:33 PM

right it's gotta add up

Kenna James · 11:33 PM

It's okay, it was a deep comment

Blake Ian · 11:33 PM

but you are not telling the truth right?

Blake Ian · 11:34 PM

Is that necessarily true of a bluff?

Blake Ian · 11:34 PM

Is it always a lie?

Kenna James · 11:34 PM

Well, bluffing is representing something you don't have or possess

Kenna James · 11:34 PM

How do you define a lie?

Blake Ian · 11:35 PM

Speaking something other than what you know is the truth

Blake Ian · 11:35 PM

Knowingly

Kenna James · 11:35 PM

Well, then I guess you have your answer.

Blake Ian · 11:36 PM

OK so hmmm that seems to be the one sticking point in the poker microcosm for life theory

Blake Ian · 11:36 PM

ethics

Blake Ian · 11:37 PM

It is sort of accepted and expected that you are going to lie in a poker game

Kenna James · 11:37 PM

Those who are conscious of the fact they are bluffing, are certainly more talented then those who do it out of ignorance.

Blake Ian · 11:37 PM

it can't be looked at as unethical right?

Kenna James · 11:37 PM

Well, there again, it depends on your definition of ethics.

Kenna James · 11:37 PM

Ethics is setting something up to accomplish an objective.

Kenna James · 11:38 PM

While it may not be moral, it is certainly ethical!!

Blake Ian · 11:38 PM

Ah so moral may have been the word I was looking for

Blake Ian · 11:39 PM

The entire premise of poker is that you are going to try to hide information (cards) and deceive your opponent so that you gain and they lose

Kenna James · 11:39 PM

Maybe. Morals involve right, wrong, good, bad, etc.

Blake Ian · 11:39 PM

So maybe it's just semantics

Blake Ian · 11:40 PM

Different games with different purposes and rules

Kenna James · 11:40 PM

I don't think it's semantical at all.

Blake Ian · 11:40 PM

well I'm just trying to see where it fits in to the analogy... Since I do believe truth is always best in life

Blake Ian · 11:40 PM

but clearly truth is not always best in poker

Kenna James · 11:40 PM

Look at the business game. You buy low and sell high. Is that not in someway exploiting your buyers?

Blake Ian · 11:41 PM

sure, but I never said there is anything moral about business! Haha

Blake Ian · 11:41 PM

certainly not in trading stock

Blake Ian · 11:41 PM

the service industry for instance is very different

Kenna James · 11:41 PM

Truth?! Lol what is truth but an agreed upon set of facts?

Blake Ian · 11:41 PM

I provide a service you pay me... Good deal

Blake Ian · 11:42 PM

I disagree

Blake Ian · 11:42 PM

Truth is truth, beyond humans or communication or language

Kenna James · 11:42 PM

Really?

Blake Ian · 11:42 PM

agreed upon set of facts is no truth

Blake Ian · 11:43 PM

Its current accepted circumstances or theory or reality

Blake Ian · 11:43 PM

That can be changed constantly

Kenna James · 11:43 PM

We'll have to save that one for other day. LOL!

Blake Ian · 11:43 PM

Haha k

Kenna James · 11:43 PM

But would love to discuss that with you.

Blake Ian · 11:43 PM

So weird because you and I NEVER go off on tangential conversations! 😉

Kenna James · 11:44 PM

Now Blake, is that the truth?

Blake Ian · 11:44 PM

Nope I was bluffing

Kenna James · 11:44 PM

Lol

Kenna James · 11:44 PM

See, you can do it!

Blake Ian · 11:44 PM

But here is some truth, I'm gonna go catch a yoga class

Blake Ian · 11:44 PM

Take em down and let's pick this up later

Kenna James · 11:45 PM

You got it! Ommmm!!!

Blake Ian · 11:45 PM

namaste motherfucker

Kenna James · 11:46 PM

Rofl! Enjoy grasshopper!

Kenna James · 11:46 PM

Goodnight all!

Blake Ian · 12:27 PM

Re-reading some of this and had a thought... It is against the rules to lie in business.

Blake Ian · 12:27 PM

Im not saying people don't do it obviously! - But it is not "allowed" and if you get caught you are penalized

Blake Ian · 12:28 PM

in poker it is within the allowable rules to lie to the people you are "doing business" with

Blake Ian · 12:28 PM

Of course the rule of - if you get caught you get penalized - is still there haha