Jordan Birnbaum

Host

The Evolution of Perspectives

Feb 11, 2014·60 visitors

Joy Hurwitz

Cohost

Stage· 261 messages

Feb 11, 2014

When I consider what I believed to be true in my 20's vs. what I consider to be true now, I have to laugh at myself. Which got me thinking about how my perspectives have changed. Which got me thinking about my beloved friend Joy Hurwitz, who has done more living and more evolving than just about anyone I know. Plus, she's an open book, and quite hilarious. Let's learn what we've learned, shall we?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

Ms. Hurwitz, I presume?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

Ms. Hurwitz, I presume?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:00 AM

It is I

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

Hello!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

So nice to see you, sorta!

Joy Hurwitz · 2:00 AM

Hi Jordan, glad to be here.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

Hi everyone hanging out in the forum

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

hello everyone

Joy Hurwitz · 2:00 AM

Hi everyone

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

so tonight we've got a pretty huge topic

Joy Hurwitz · 2:01 AM

indeed we do. are you going to begin Jordan?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

there's the personal evolution of Joy and me, there's the factors contributing to evolution, and or blocking it...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

and then there's some large topics, like God and politics. So where to begin...

Joy Hurwitz · 2:02 AM

up to you

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

Joy, when I ask you to explain how you have changed over the years, what are some of the first responses?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:03 AM

i think the first response is much less drama now then years ago. something I have worked very hard on accomplishing

Joy Hurwitz · 2:03 AM

what was so important then is much less if not at all what is important now.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

That seems like a pretty major divide - those who figure out how to minimize drama, and those who don't

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

what perspective tends to lend itself to drama? narcissism?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:04 AM

it depends on what you "choose to feed you". I believe that the more centered and self aware the less need for drama to propell you

Joy Hurwitz · 2:04 AM

i don't think narcissism. i think a need to dull the pain of insecurity and being unsure

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

Is it harder to be dramatic if you are more aware of others suffering around you?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“What was your defining moment, Joy, when you realized that it was ok to put yourself and your needs first?”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:06 AM

the defining moment was finding sharing my life with the man who supported and encourage me to take the time to take care of myself.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:06 AM

the better myself the better I was for him.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:06 AM

sometimes fossee fingers can lighten a mood

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

we're speaking of your late husband?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:07 AM

yes Harry taught me more about myself than I had every known. Loving someone opened me to myself. I know that sounds trite but it was true for me. I became for individualized by being partnered than I was alone.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:07 AM

more individualize

Joy Hurwitz · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from C. Brian Smith

“I think it had something to do with breaking up with Walter, right Joy?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:08 AM

So before you met Harry, you had a less clear understanding of yourself?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:08 AM

Glad to see you here Brian. Yes Walter (aka "my fat") made me more vulnerable.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:09 AM

Yes Jordan, because I myopic to myself and that relationship forced me to open my heart and my self to much more

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:09 AM

Joy named her belly fat Walter and gave him a personality fyi...

Joy Hurwitz · 2:09 AM

thanks for the clarity.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:10 AM

I think that when I was supported by someone I respected it changed me. What I believed to be true about myself was either validate or denied.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

OK - I asked earlier about whether awareness of others' hurt minimizes drama - some cool thoughts from the forum followed...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“I don't think so, Jordan. I think for most, it's easier to be dramatic when others are suffering because, for that person, they feed off the energy and attention and feel as though they are a part of something (someone else's drama and/or suffering).”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Kristin, i think youp might be right. People feel really uncomfortable with another's emotions...partly because they think they need to have an in-kind reaction.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Or similar in proportion. We're not really good (most of us) as letting others feel what they feel.”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“Respect is huge. I think once you find someone who truly has respect for you, change and strength are inevitable”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

I guess my experience is that the more aware I am of other people, the harder it is to get worked up over my own drama.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

so i wonder if other people experience the same

Joy Hurwitz · 2:12 AM

It is also a decision. Like picking your battles.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:12 AM

Life experience taught me what I should get crazy about and what I should let go.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

whats worth getting crazy about?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:12 AM

I believe the most important lesson I learned was that MY truth may not necessarily be THE TRUTH

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

That might be the biggest epiphany a person can have. Literally, I mean #1.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“You can pick your battles and you can pick your friends, but you can't wipe your battles on your sleeve!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

lol

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“Empathy gives me more tools to get through the day. It's up to me whether I use them or not.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

good quote!

Joy Hurwitz · 2:13 AM

the I have to live with the consequence of being ME and that I am the judge of what drama I want to get involved with.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“sorry to butt in,but i have seen people change before my eyes. i have tried to be respectful to people and their feelings,i have tried to be a friend to some. but most either throw it back in my face or just walk away. so i have given up”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:14 AM

Most people don't change ..... they just show what is really going on that they have kept hidden.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

so going back to the epiphany that MY truth may not be THE truth - why do you think that might be hard for people to accept?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:15 AM

I take responsibility for the choice in People and Decision I made or make and also the choice to get rid of the People who do not fit with me.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

empathy towards crazy people does no good, and crazy people who are scattered brained - that don't or can't focus

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

tru dat

Joy Hurwitz · 2:16 AM

Jordan, most people myself included used to believe that my truth was it for everyone. That's when I do in trouble.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

So, one of the major shifts in my perspective was my degree of certainty.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

In my 20s, I was certain of everything.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:16 AM

absolutely\

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

and I think that's because reality, which is very uncertain, was to scary for me to process

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

too scary

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Rick, taht is so fucking true! Empathy toward crazy people is a huge waste.”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:17 AM

The best way to test this ..... listen to a 19 year old today and see yourself. It is so much the same as it was ...... you cannot dismiss them but

Joy Hurwitz · 2:17 AM

be understanding that we all had that "certainty" when we were twenty. Also the need to tell everyone.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

But some people seem to hold onto that perspective their entire lives, right?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“question: why is it men always think they know everything in their 20's,whereas women are thought to know nothing?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

good question

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

dunno if its true about women tho

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“We need to "tell everyone" when we're 19, 20 because we're done "being told." And if we say it long enough and loud enough, maybe we can make it be true! :D”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:19 AM

I don't think that is true at all, quite the opposite. All men want at 20 is to be certain of getting laid.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

the truth shall set us free

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

or drunk

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

so Joy do you think it requires a certain strength to let go of certainty?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:19 AM

just laid. they are already drunk and high

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“LOL, Joy.”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:20 AM

yes strength and clarity. Certainty is relative

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:20 AM

OK so what do you think are some of the major perspective altering life events?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:20 AM

death of parents.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

oy - i get a pit in my stomach thinking about it

Joy Hurwitz · 2:21 AM

not achieving what you were certain you would by a certain age.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:21 AM

and especially that people believe your bull shit

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

so the loss of your parents -what impact did it wrought?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:22 AM

Death of parents ... means your next

Joy Hurwitz · 2:22 AM

death of parents means there is no safety net

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

wow -so is that inspiring or terrifying?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:22 AM

death of parents means that those two people who there at your first moment are no longer

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Yeah, Rick, that "almost death" thing is pretty huge...”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

flipping car upside down into a bayou

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

so what happens to your view of the world following a bad accident? do you appreciate life more?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:23 AM

hopefully you do and notice maybe for the first time how fragile we all are

Joy Hurwitz · 2:24 AM

when you notice an accident or experience the death of a loved one .... the lowest common denominator presents itself and hopefully your perspecitive on the little stuff changes

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“It so depends on the individual, Jordan. And as an ex-boyfriend once said to me, "Time is the greatest of all equalizers." So, the more time that passes from an accident or near death experience, the farther (further?) one becomes from”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

OK -let's pivot to a specific topic - let's tawk about our perspectives on God and religion and how they have evolved over time.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

How were you raised?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:25 AM

my perspective or God has not changed since I was very young.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

really? that's unusual.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:26 AM

It all depends on the perspective

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

most kids have religion thrust upon them first

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

and then start to think about it critically somewhere later

Joy Hurwitz · 2:26 AM

Religion for me has always been culture. Faith for me has always been constant

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

"Eat your cracker and shoot the wine"

Joy Hurwitz · 2:27 AM

My faith was given to me by my Mother at a very early age and it has never changed.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:27 AM

My religion/culture is an on going study.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

how did she pass it to you?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:27 AM

Over the years, Judaism has become less of a religion to me and more of a culture to be a part of, especially in College

Joy Hurwitz · 2:27 AM

Religion historically has caused a great deal of suffering and deatgh

Joy Hurwitz · 2:28 AM

My mother passed on "faith" by having it

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

did she articulate it to you? or it was more you "felt" it?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:28 AM

I love being Jewish. I find it easy and fun and the food is great

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

there's an italian laughing at us somewhere right now. Good food?!

Joy Hurwitz · 2:29 AM

She articulated it but I felt it from a very early early again.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:29 AM

Isn't Italian food Jewish?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“That would be me, Jordan”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:29 AM

I know Sushi is

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

yeah, Jewish food with taste

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

how about politics -have you been a lefty since birth, or did you go through an Ayn Rand phase?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:30 AM

Everyone wanted to fuck John Galt

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

lol

Joy Hurwitz · 2:30 AM

I am so the wrong person to believe in Politics

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

why?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:30 AM

I gave it all up after 1968 in Chicago. They are all the same ........

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

yeah, I only arrived at this truth during the Obama administration

Joy Hurwitz · 2:31 AM

This is a subject I never talk about.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

I gave up politics for lent

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

friggin bummer

Joy Hurwitz · 2:31 AM

I arrive at truth sometimes when watching Bill Mahr

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

so do many

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@rick - i think most politicians did too”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:32 AM

when you grow up with Eisenhower (if anyone knows who he was) and have hope with Kennedy and then watch the killing of Dreams JFK MLK RFK it is difficult to believe in any system

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:33 AM

does your belief in the fundamental "goodness" of humanity waver all over the place? Or is it consistently good or bad?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Totally understandable. And that generation also had Nixon. No faith was even left to be had!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:33 AM

understood

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:33 AM

when Nixon resigned, I heard a lot of everyone just say..did the president just quit? now what?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:34 AM

I believe that all people are similar .... it is the choices that are made that differentiate us.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

are we responsible for our choices? Or are they a product of our experiences? I guess that's an impossible question...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“"All people are similar." That should be on a t-shirt. Yeah.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“Both, Jordan”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

education, money, that all matters too

Joy Hurwitz · 2:35 AM

absolutely responsible. the problem is that so few own the results of their choices.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

why is accountability so hard to find?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:35 AM

education, money NOT NECESSARILY

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

no one wants to be held accountable

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“Right on, Joy. Why do you think that is?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:36 AM

the struggle of someone who has no money is different than someone who does

Joy Hurwitz · 2:36 AM

Because we all fear the judgement of others

Joy Hurwitz · 2:36 AM

and in doing so we believe that they believe our bullshit and how we talk our way out of owning our choices.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:36 AM

but we preach accountability as a virtue, and then punish anyone who demonstrates it?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:36 AM

judgement exists - in the eys of each and everystranger

Joy Hurwitz · 2:36 AM

We rich, fat, americans (all of us) have choice

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“That we all feel that judgment will only highlight our insecurities and then we'd have to look deeper into ourselves to reveal our truth?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

so is there an underlying theme of emotional health through everything we're discussing?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:37 AM

I always are surprised when people comment "you are so honest" .... what actually do you think I am supposed to be. Tell Your Truth .... lose friends

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“YES!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

So if one friends appreciates honesty, and another runs from it, what is the determining factor in that difference?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:38 AM

that I made the wrong CHOICE WITH ONE OF THEM

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

lol

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“Tell your truth, GAIN friends.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

if they are not honest, they are not your friend

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“@ Kristin: ...worth having.”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:39 AM

Get rid of those "friends" who do not honor you

Joy Hurwitz · 2:39 AM

as a person

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

we is it that so often we hold on to toxic relationships so tightly?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

why is it

Joy Hurwitz · 2:40 AM

they do not have to believe Your Truth but they have to respect it

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“THAT is the question, Jordan.”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:40 AM

because they validate what we believe is the worst in us

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

yeah, I'm pretty impressive

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“damn good question Jordan. one i am struggling with”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

but why would we WANT to believe the worst in us?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

maybe we confuse "want" with "used to"

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

familiar with

Joy Hurwitz · 2:41 AM

because when we were small someone said we were "bad" and we believed it

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“I think it's because we don't feel comfortable saying "no". We feel obligated in some way”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Because if it's TRUE, then we don't have to be AFRAID that it's true.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“cos thats what we have been told over and over for most of our lives. its a damn hard habit to break”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

OK -so this Tawk has taken a decidedly psycho-analytic turn...

Joy Hurwitz · 2:42 AM

i think so

Joy Hurwitz · 2:42 AM

Thank God for Shrinks

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

let's get a little more tangible for a moment -how does world travel impact your perspectives?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:43 AM

World travel is the best and most fun way to test your truth about the world and the people in it

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

can you think of a specific example from your life that illustrates that?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:43 AM

It also gives perspective and valiadation that people are basically the same

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

give us a good travel story

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from C. Brian Smith

“South Africa story!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:44 AM

my man

Joy Hurwitz · 2:44 AM

I spent time in South Africa. It is believed that "MAN" began there. All I know is that I met some of the most gentle, loving, accessible people I have ever know .... I also experienced that when living in Hawaii

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:44 AM

love a great travel story

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:45 AM

now what are the factors that account for the dramatic different world view?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“I think it is crucial for people to take themselves away from everyone they know, everyone who knows them and put themselves in an environment that is not comfortable...just to find out what's still true about themselves.”

Joy Hurwitz · 2:45 AM

C bRian you know WAY too much about me.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:45 AM

With Joy Hurwitz, too much is never enough!

Joy Hurwitz · 2:46 AM

We went to South Africa at the height of Apartheid. To work on a film "Safari 3000"

Joy Hurwitz · 2:46 AM

The SAG Actors went on strike and we were there for 6 months.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:47 AM

At the time African Blacks made extra money by selling Dagga (marijuanna).

Joy Hurwitz · 2:47 AM

Of course I promised that I wouldn't smoke but the AD on the film (that I am now reunited with on FBN

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:47 AM

support your local economy!

Joy Hurwitz · 2:47 AM

Facebook) gave me 5 joints.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:47 AM

sounds like a song by Sublime

Joy Hurwitz · 2:48 AM

The crew went to a party that was busted by the South African Police with dogs and David Caradine was busted for possession.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:48 AM

Bill? Kung Fu?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:49 AM

Not wanting to go "down" by himself he brought the Police to our hotel room where they immediately search and busted me for possession (2 joints). I was not arrested by had to go to court and was convicted of possession.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:49 AM

King Fu?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

wasn't he the star of that TV show Kung Fu?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

that's the saddest kung fu story I ever heard

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

you killed my master

Joy Hurwitz · 2:50 AM

I was given a suspended sentence and was allowed to remain in South Africa until the movie was finished. I had to be nice to David Kung Fu because he was the star of the film.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

kind of a jerk move by him tho, huh?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

That's why I'm gonna Kill Bill

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

the worst

Joy Hurwitz · 2:51 AM

I never really saw him again BUT when in died from sexual strangulation (because I cannot spell the other word) I got a call from his co star and we both said that KARMA IS A BITCH no matter how long it takes to manifest.

Joy Hurwitz · 2:51 AM

The End.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

I did NOT see that one coming

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from C. Brian Smith

“Midnight Express - Hurwitz Style”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

here's my quick tidbit:

Joy Hurwitz · 2:52 AM

Thank you Brian Smith

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“asphyxia, Joy. ;)”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

I am clapping my hands in my head

Joy Hurwitz · 2:52 AM

that you Kristin

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

I was traveling during my Ayn Rand phase, and during a political conversation with an Aussie he asked me, "Why can't you just be nicer." And my Ayn Rand phase ended right there.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

Aussie Aussie Aussie. Oy Oy Oy!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

ha!

Joy Hurwitz · 2:53 AM

Who is John Galt .... a bumper sticker on every car in the parking lot at UCLA .... until they were all covered with a bumper sticker that read ....WHO THE FUCK CARES

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

lol

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kristin Ciasulli

“Traveling and talking "America" with any of the locals, really puts perspective on our thoughts, actions, and politics.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

for sure

Joy Hurwitz · 2:54 AM

I had a lover who had a shrink NATHANIEL BRANDON who was Ayn Rand's lover. Nathaniel Brandon then went on to marry my Cousin's Cousin .... that was the end of AR for me.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

OK Joy -I have a great question to take us out. What is your advice for someone in their 20's? 30's? 40's? 50's? Beyond?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:55 AM

Keep your sense of humor and smoke a lot of dope.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

for all of them?!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

great advice!!!

Joy Hurwitz · 2:55 AM

for all of them

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

So are there any other thoughts you'd like to share on evolving perspectives?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:56 AM

life is really hard ..... have as much of a good time as possible and love love love

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

it always comes back to that Beatles line "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Joy Hurwitz · 2:57 AM

Amen Jordan and thank you for including me

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

You know, a Tawk on the evolution of perspectives by The Beatles would be pretty good...

Joy Hurwitz · 2:57 AM

especially from RINGO STARR

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

you have his email?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

didn't he give you something once?

Joy Hurwitz · 2:58 AM

NO but I did have his crabs

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

i think you should provide context as the final story of the night.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Ewwwwwww!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

we all live in a yellow submarine...

Joy Hurwitz · 2:59 AM

too long a story ..... you'll have to ask me to do this again. i only said that for C Brian. Ewwwwwwwwww is right

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

all my friends -what faun Tawk

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

fun

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

Joy -0 thank you so much

Joy Hurwitz · 2:59 AM

so much my pleasure. thank you all for checking in and commenting

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

you are such a lovely human being

Joy Hurwitz · 3:00 AM

as are you Jordan and so very smart

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

wish there were more like you!

Joy Hurwitz · 3:00 AM

thanks

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

amigos in the forum - you guys rule

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Good night, all. XOXO”

Joy Hurwitz · 3:00 AM

Bye

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

I'm tawking tomorrow night with Rachel McDonnell, so see you then

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

nite!

Forum · 84

Forum· 84 comments

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Tawkers AdminFeb 4, 2014, 8:17 PM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:02 AM

Hey, Rick.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:03 AM

Are you frozen in where you're at?

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:04 AM★ Spotlighted

What was your defining moment, Joy, when you realized that it was ok to put yourself and your needs first?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:04 AM

Eff this winter. I'm done with it, but it just won't get it's drunk ass up off my couch!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:05 AM

Yeah - beign from the South where people don't know how to drive in...weather...I just feel that people shouldn't drive.

C. Brian SmithFeb 11, 2014, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

I think it had something to do with breaking up with Walter, right Joy?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:06 AM

Oooh, points for the Fossee reference. Nice!

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

I don't think so, Jordan. I think for most, it's easier to be dramatic when others are suffering because, for that person, they feed off the energy and attention and feel as though they are a part of something (someone else's drama and/or suffering).

C. Brian SmithFeb 11, 2014, 2:07 AM

Yo Rick.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

Kristin, i think youp might be right. People feel really uncomfortable with another's emotions...partly because they think they need to have an in-kind reaction.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:08 AM★ Spotlighted

Or similar in proportion. We're not really good (most of us) as letting others feel what they feel.

ross dittmanFeb 11, 2014, 2:09 AM

Was it a eureka moment of becoming a better person, or did it involve more hard work?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:09 AM

@ Ross: Life is work. There's always more work.

C. Brian SmithFeb 11, 2014, 2:09 AM

doesn't everyone?

Blake IanFeb 11, 2014, 2:11 AM

I just entered the Tawk on "Joy named her belly fat Walter and gave him a personality" excuse me while I scroll up to find out how we arrived there!

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:11 AM

ok what have i missed?

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:11 AM★ Spotlighted

Respect is huge. I think once you find someone who truly has respect for you, change and strength are inevitable

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:11 AM

oh good

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:12 AM

@ Kristin: It definitely becomes less acceptable to be around people who DON'T respect you. Which is to say, you can't help but begin to respect yourself.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:12 AM

Grounding, isn't it Jordan? And do you think this evolution has become more evident with pursuing your psych degree?

Blake IanFeb 11, 2014, 2:12 AM★ Spotlighted

You can pick your battles and you can pick your friends, but you can't wipe your battles on your sleeve!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:13 AM

ROFL, Blake.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:13 AM

Yes, Joy!

ross dittmanFeb 11, 2014, 2:13 AM★ Spotlighted

Empathy gives me more tools to get through the day. It's up to me whether I use them or not.

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:13 AM★ Spotlighted

sorry to butt in,but i have seen people change before my eyes. i have tried to be respectful to people and their feelings,i have tried to be a friend to some. but most either throw it back in my face or just walk away. so i have given up

ross dittmanFeb 11, 2014, 2:14 AM

Thanks.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:14 AM

That's deep, Ross. Seriously.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:14 AM

No need to give up Lucy, you just have to learn/recognize who will or won't be receptive

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:15 AM

trouble is,whenever i need help or i am in need of a friend...theres no-one there.so...you know,whats the point?

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:15 AM

Doesn't mean you should give up all together

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:15 AM

Lucy, i read once that, "Assholes are born that way and they seldom change" - though many of them can mask it for awhile. :/

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:15 AM

kristin,for me it does

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:16 AM

@Rebecca - lol so true

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:16 AM★ Spotlighted

Rick, taht is so fucking true! Empathy toward crazy people is a huge waste.

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:17 AM

people who i thought were good,and true and had a heart,i found to be complete ass heads.maybe that says something about me

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:17 AM

Not, like, schizophrenic people, people with depression or delusions, but people with Asshole Disorder - people who manufacture crazy. It does NO GOOD to try to get where they're coming from!

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:17 AM★ Spotlighted

question: why is it men always think they know everything in their 20's,whereas women are thought to know nothing?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

We need to "tell everyone" when we're 19, 20 because we're done "being told." And if we say it long enough and loud enough, maybe we can make it be true! :D

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:19 AM★ Spotlighted

LOL, Joy.

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:19 AM

drunk and laid

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:21 AM

having a kid when young will either change you for the better or make into a total dickhead

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:21 AM

Lucy, you poor thing! I have felt that way SO OFTEN! I'm a shithead magnet: I get all the losers with all the drama. But it can change, it can get better. "Take no one who is not as good as you for your friend." Seriously, Honey, it will change you!

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:21 AM

@rebecca - its certainly beginning to

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

Yeah, Rick, that "almost death" thing is pretty huge...

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:22 AM

Word.

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:22 AM

the death of my parents was a relief,to be honest

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:23 AM

LOL, Lucy! I shouldn't laugh, but I know how you feel! If mine were dead, i could at least forgive them! ;D

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:23 AM

mine couldnt give a shit about me when they were alive

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:24 AM

but i get what your emaning,rebecca

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:24 AM

And also, you tolerate less shit. Ain't nobody got time for that!

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

It so depends on the individual, Jordan. And as an ex-boyfriend once said to me, "Time is the greatest of all equalizers." So, the more time that passes from an accident or near death experience, the farther (further?) one becomes from

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:25 AM

"life-changing revelations" and previous behavior resumes

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:25 AM

That's true, Kristin. It becomes just another story you tell yourself about who you are.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

That would be me, Jordan

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:31 AM★ Spotlighted

@rick - i think most politicians did too

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

Totally understandable. And that generation also had Nixon. No faith was even left to be had!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:34 AM★ Spotlighted

"All people are similar." That should be on a t-shirt. Yeah.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

Both, Jordan

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

Right on, Joy. Why do you think that is?

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:37 AM★ Spotlighted

That we all feel that judgment will only highlight our insecurities and then we'd have to look deeper into ourselves to reveal our truth?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:37 AM

That's an acute observation, Rick. Being poor sucks, makes you feel like YOU suck.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:37 AM★ Spotlighted

YES!

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

Tell your truth, GAIN friends.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:38 AM

The type of friends who won't attempt to suck out your soul, emotions, patience, and kindness.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

@ Kristin: ...worth having.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:39 AM

Joy has hit it on the head!

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

THAT is the question, Jordan.

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

damn good question Jordan. one i am struggling with

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:41 AM★ Spotlighted

I think it's because we don't feel comfortable saying "no". We feel obligated in some way

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:41 AM★ Spotlighted

Because if it's TRUE, then we don't have to be AFRAID that it's true.

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:41 AM★ Spotlighted

cos thats what we have been told over and over for most of our lives. its a damn hard habit to break

Lucy DyerFeb 11, 2014, 2:42 AM

being a bloody Virgo doesnt help matters either!

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:42 AM

Plus, as you stated earlier, Jordan, the majority of us have religion thrust upon us, I did. And now I have to live with Catholic guilt for the rest of my life. I guess I don't have to but a little is still there.

C. Brian SmithFeb 11, 2014, 2:43 AM★ Spotlighted

South Africa story!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:44 AM★ Spotlighted

I think it is crucial for people to take themselves away from everyone they know, everyone who knows them and put themselves in an environment that is not comfortable...just to find out what's still true about themselves.

C. Brian SmithFeb 11, 2014, 2:51 AM★ Spotlighted

Midnight Express - Hurwitz Style

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:52 AM★ Spotlighted

asphyxia, Joy. ;)

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:53 AM★ Spotlighted

Traveling and talking "America" with any of the locals, really puts perspective on our thoughts, actions, and politics.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:54 AM

That's a pretty great agent for change. Not only traveling but being open to other ways of life.

Kristin CiasulliFeb 11, 2014, 2:57 AM

You know what else I found to be really great? Reciting the serenity prayer. And you don't have to believe in god for those words to be effective.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:58 AM★ Spotlighted

Ewwwwwww!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:59 AM

Thank you!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerFeb 11, 2014, 2:59 AM★ Spotlighted

Good night, all. XOXO