Blake Ian

Host

The Gift of Adversity

Oct 3, 2013·5,132 visitors

Norman Rosenthal

Cohost

Stage· 76 messages

Oct 3, 2013

Dr. Norman E. Rosenthal is the world-renowned psychiatrist and author whose research in describing seasonal affective disorder (SAD) has helped millions of people. His 2011 book Transcendence was a New York Times bestseller. In this interview with Tawkers Co-Founder and fellow TM practitioner, Blake Ian, the two will discuss transcendental meditation, and his next book, The Gift of Adversity,

Blake Ian · 9:30 PM

Good evening all...

Blake Ian · 9:30 PM

Doctor Rosenthal will be just a moment.

Blake Ian · 9:32 PM

Welcome Doctor Rosenthal. May I call you Doctor Norm? I feel like that’s what all the cool people call you.

Norman Rosenthal · 9:32 PM

Good evening

Blake Ian · 9:34 PM

Welcome to Tawkers...

Norman Rosenthal · 9:36 PM

By all means call me Dr. Norm

Blake Ian · 9:37 PM

Ok! So Doctor Norm, I'd like to discuss as much of your work as I can in the next 30 minutes.

Blake Ian · 9:37 PM

Let's begin at the beginning...

Norman Rosenthal · 9:37 PM

Go for it

Norman Rosenthal · 9:37 PM

Maybe we should start with Seasonal Affective Disorder - SAD

Blake Ian · 9:38 PM

For sure

Norman Rosenthal · 9:38 PM

What would you like to know about it?

Blake Ian · 9:38 PM

Well... I suppose what I found most interesting is that it is an area you studied because you yourself experience the effects is that correct?

Norman Rosenthal · 9:39 PM

Yes, it is what I have called "The Gift of Adversity," which happens to be the title of my latest book.

Blake Ian · 9:40 PM

Haha, yes it is a great example of the gift of adversity, in this case it was a gift you were able to share with so many others.

Blake Ian · 9:41 PM

Can you share when you first experienced the effects of SAD?

Norman Rosenthal · 9:41 PM

Yes, when I first described Seasonal Affective Disorder, many people thought it was quite funny, but it turned out to be a common, important, and fortunately highly treatable condition. I write all about it in my book Winter Blues.

Norman Rosenthal · 9:43 PM

That occurred after the daylight savings time change the very first year I was in New York City -- 1976 -- the bicentennial year, when tall ships sail down the Hudson River

Norman Rosenthal · 9:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Harry Martinian

“In truth we can all look at our past event that might be characterized as events of adversity and glean how that event became a transition to a new direction that was not apparent before.”

Norman Rosenthal · 9:44 PM

Harry, I think that is very true

Blake Ian · 9:44 PM

Another very important book you have given as a gift to many is Transcendence. Which focuses on the practice Transcendental Meditation

Blake Ian · 9:44 PM

a method we both practice

Norman Rosenthal · 9:45 PM

I wrote Transcendence after experiencing personally the transformative effects of TM or Transcendental Meditation. When I saw how many first-rate studies there are about the beneficial effects of TM and heard the wonderful stories from so many people

Norman Rosenthal · 9:46 PM

regarding their personal transformation, I simply could not resist writing a book about the subject. Blake, I hope it has been as helpful to you.

Norman Rosenthal · 9:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Paul Miller

“Although devestating news, when my son was diagnosed with Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, I have found many blessing along the way with this adversity. First and foremost a purpose of trying to cure this disease.”

Blake Ian · 9:46 PM

It has been unimaginably helpful to me

Blake Ian · 9:47 PM

My life has absolutely transformed since beginning the practice 3 years ago

Norman Rosenthal · 9:47 PM

Paul, I really respect people who try to view their life challenges -- even very difficult ones -- in positive ways. I wish you well in your journey.

Norman Rosenthal · 9:47 PM

Blake, how has TM transformed your life?

Blake Ian · 9:48 PM

It has allowed me to access a calm that I had never experienced before, but one that seemed quite natural.

Blake Ian · 9:48 PM

As well as a creativity that I had accessed before but only through unhealthy methods

Norman Rosenthal · 9:48 PM

Hey Simon, call your Mom and tell her to get on the chat.

Blake Ian · 9:49 PM

★ Spotlighted from Simon Gornick

“My mom should be in on this. She has the SAD”

Norman Rosenthal · 9:49 PM

Blake, it is extraordinary that TM can produce both feelings of calm and creative energy at the same time. I have heard it from many people.

Blake Ian · 9:50 PM

It is indeed. I suppose it is more of an access to where calm and creativity come from

Norman Rosenthal · 9:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Eric Carter

“Books about meditation and adversity, interesting. I have heard people achieve "enlightenment" through suffering. Dr. Norm, do you have thoughts on this?”

Blake Ian · 9:50 PM

A source as many meditators refer to it as

Norman Rosenthal · 9:51 PM

Eric, I don't think you need to suffer in order to be enlightened, but suffering is an inevitable part of life and one of the few benefits that suffering brings -- if you allow yourself to let it in -- is enlightenment -- much better than bitterness

Blake Ian · 9:51 PM

Very well said, no wonder your books are so widely read.

Blake Ian · 9:52 PM

Let's move into adversity and suffering

Norman Rosenthal · 9:52 PM

Thanks Blake

Blake Ian · 9:52 PM

I have a few direct questions for you on this...

Norman Rosenthal · 9:52 PM

Go ahead

Blake Ian · 9:53 PM

This first one may be more spiritual than psychological...

Blake Ian · 9:53 PM

why do you think we have the instinct to avoid adversity, why do we need educated men like yourself to teach us that there are gifts within

Blake Ian · 9:54 PM

*excuse (men and women)

Norman Rosenthal · 9:54 PM

I am all for avoiding adversity. The common expression is "never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you."

Norman Rosenthal · 9:55 PM

But troubles will come as part of life -- sometimes small and sometimes big. What I am saying is that when that happens, we should try to use those opportunities for learning and growth.

Blake Ian · 9:57 PM

Whoa the entire World Wide Web just went down for a minute!

Blake Ian · 9:57 PM

We are back.

Blake Ian · 9:58 PM

Amazon servers, "up 99.9% of the time"

Blake Ian · 9:58 PM

So to get back to the Tawk

Blake Ian · 9:58 PM

a couple of more questions while we have the Doctors time

Norman Rosenthal · 9:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mary Boehnlein

“Dr. Rosenthal: I love this forum. Love both Transcendence and the Gift of Adversity. Loved meeting you personally in Garden City last week. I promise to send my and my family's TM experience. It certainly has changed my life for the better.”

Norman Rosenthal · 9:58 PM

Thanks, Mary, for that wonderful feedback; as my friend David Lynch always says about TM, water the root and enjoy the fruit

Blake Ian · 9:59 PM

Catching the Big Fish is another great book inspired by TM

Blake Ian · 9:59 PM

by David Lynch

Norman Rosenthal · 9:59 PM

Yes, it is a very enjoyable book - and emphasizes the importance of going for what really matters in life

Blake Ian · 10:00 PM

I suppose what I meant with my last question is, if adversity always comes with hidden treasure, which I believe it does..

Blake Ian · 10:00 PM

Why do we as humans still resist it, and do you think we will evolve to eventually accept the reality of adversity being a necessary and eventually positive thing

Norman Rosenthal · 10:01 PM

Adversity is not in itself good

Norman Rosenthal · 10:01 PM

Sometimes it is devastating, fatal, painful, awful

Norman Rosenthal · 10:01 PM

But sooner or later we have to face it, and how we deal with it can make all the difference . . .

Norman Rosenthal · 10:01 PM

Between success and failure . . .

Norman Rosenthal · 10:01 PM

happiness and misery . . .

Norman Rosenthal · 10:01 PM

victimhood or empowerment . . .

Norman Rosenthal · 10:02 PM

So, I want to be careful not to glamorize adversity

Norman Rosenthal · 10:02 PM

But to encourage people to look it straight in the eye and make the best of it

Norman Rosenthal · 10:02 PM

When I looked over the lessons of my life, I found that the most important ones followed adversity -- and what I learned from it

Norman Rosenthal · 10:03 PM

So I wanted to share that perception with my readers, and encourage them to look at adversity through that lens

Norman Rosenthal · 10:03 PM

Blake, I have so appreciated the opportunity to be here and talk with you and your terrific audience

Blake Ian · 10:03 PM

Wow, brilliant and powerful words.

Blake Ian · 10:04 PM

I know your time was limited today, thank you so much for hopping on to help even more people.

Norman Rosenthal · 10:04 PM

Thanks and take care

Blake Ian · 10:04 PM

I hope you enjoyed! Be well

Norman Rosenthal · 10:04 PM

My pleasure; let's talk again sometime; blessings and best wishes to you all

Forum · 44

Forum· 44 comments

5,132 visitors

james robersonOct 1, 2013, 12:53 PM

hey guys

Tawkers AdminOct 1, 2013, 1:45 PM

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Tawkers AdminOct 1, 2013, 1:46 PM

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Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:34 PM

Looking forward to the Tawk.

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 9:36 PM

Lets get this party started!

Rachael WorkmanOct 3, 2013, 9:38 PM

@Eric i dig your website

Simon GornickOct 3, 2013, 9:38 PM★ Spotlighted

My mom should be in on this. She has the SAD

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 9:39 PM

Thanks sister!

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:39 PM

Cut to the chase already!

Simon GornickOct 3, 2013, 9:40 PM

This is kinda like being able to talk at the back of class without having a book thrown at you.

Harry MartinianOct 3, 2013, 9:41 PM★ Spotlighted

In truth we can all look at our past event that might be characterized as events of adversity and glean how that event became a transition to a new direction that was not apparent before.

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:42 PM

Adversity is inevitable in our lives, stress on our soul is an option. It is our own individual choice on how we react to adversity.

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:43 PM★ Spotlighted

Although devestating news, when my son was diagnosed with Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, I have found many blessing along the way with this adversity. First and foremost a purpose of trying to cure this disease.

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 9:44 PM

"When tall ships sail down the Hudson River." Very poetic

Rachael WorkmanOct 3, 2013, 9:44 PM

@Paul that's amazing that you've found that outlook

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:46 PM

Everyone's adversity is relative to them. Before my son's diagnosis, I would have scoffed at a seasonal disorder, but now realize that someones adversity is defined by them individually.

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:48 PM

How do you make the distinction, between TM and prayer. Or can it be one in the same.

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:49 PM

Thank you Dr. Norm. Just don't see the benefit of the glass half empty viewpoint. No downside to being positive!

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 9:49 PM★ Spotlighted

Books about meditation and adversity, interesting. I have heard people achieve "enlightenment" through suffering. Dr. Norm, do you have thoughts on this?

Harry MartinianOct 3, 2013, 9:50 PM

Perhaps when we are able to take inventory of our adversity and see the silver lining it allows us to be more appreciative of others trials and tribulations.

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:51 PM

Would you consider the giddy, reckless abandon of spring fever the inverse of SAD

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:52 PM

Thanks @Rachel

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:53 PM

Thanks @Rachael

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 9:53 PM

Thanks Tawkers for putting my question up, and thanks Dr. Norm for responding!

Mary BoehnleinOct 3, 2013, 9:54 PM★ Spotlighted

Dr. Rosenthal: I love this forum. Love both Transcendence and the Gift of Adversity. Loved meeting you personally in Garden City last week. I promise to send my and my family's TM experience. It certainly has changed my life for the better.

Harry MartinianOct 3, 2013, 9:55 PM

You don't have to go out of our way to find adversity

Michael MicklowOct 3, 2013, 9:55 PM

@ Dr. Rosenthal -- Many thinkers, philosophers have posited that DMT is able to create a pathway into a sort of spiritual otherwordly dimension, leading to a renewal of actions thereafter in this-world reality. Mckenna comes to mind. Thoughts?

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 9:55 PM

LOL -- "Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you!" #Thatsamouthful

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 9:55 PM

Our troubles or adversity helps define who we are and our purpose on the planet

Harry MartinianOct 3, 2013, 9:56 PM

Michael, what is DMT

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 10:00 PM

@Harry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine

Michael MicklowOct 3, 2013, 10:01 PM

Recent studies have shown that DMT is released naturally by the human body in times of REM sleep, and also extremely high doses are released at the time of death, this could explain the popular phenomenon known as “near death experiences”.

Harry MartinianOct 3, 2013, 10:02 PM

Paul, TM is distinct practice that involves not concentration or contemplation. Go to tm.org, get more of an explanation. Or visit a TM center

Matthew SadofskyOct 3, 2013, 10:02 PM

So then adversity builds character, which could be viewed as a good thing. At some point in our lives, we should all be faced with obstacles and challenges. These are the life experiences that make us who we are. right?

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 10:02 PM

Adversity does not have to rob you of joy.

Michael MicklowOct 3, 2013, 10:02 PM

Could the relation of near death experiences, seen as a form of adversity, be directly linked with this amazingly powerful psychedelic, DMT?

Michael MicklowOct 3, 2013, 10:04 PM

TM discussion but no talk of psychedelics? hmmmm

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 10:05 PM

I have never done DMT, however my thought is that something like DMT is just not sustainable, never mind the possible negative implications psychologically (which is arguable, I know). Also, a sort of depression might come in as a side effect of havi

Eric CarterOct 3, 2013, 10:05 PM

ng a deep experience and not being able to "get back there." #Mytwocents

Harry MartinianOct 3, 2013, 10:06 PM

Think this went well Blake.

Paul MillerOct 3, 2013, 10:07 PM

Thanks @Harry. I will check it out further.

Harry MartinianOct 3, 2013, 10:09 PM

It is becoming more commonly understood that we have within a pharmacy of vast porportions...

Harry MartinianOct 3, 2013, 10:11 PM

That we can unfold that sequence of distribution in our neurophysiology that is most auspicious and beneficial by bringing the mnd to the least excited state of thought. All a possibility with the right instruction in meditation.

Esther NjeruMay 5, 2014, 12:07 PM

I am learning a lot from this...