Jordan Birnbaum

Host

The Racism Institute

Sep 20, 2013·76 visitors

Seth Hochman

Cohost

Stage· 203 messages

Sep 20, 2013

The Trayvon Martin Verdict. Stop And Frisk. The Repeal Of The Voting Rights Act. The Prison Industrial Complex. The Anti-Immigration Movement. Could institutionalized racism be any more blatant? And what are we to do about it? Let's Tawk.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

Mr. Hochman, I presume?

Seth Hochman · 1:00 AM

It's good to be here

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

How are you, pal? You know, this is our 3rd Tawk, the most I've ever done with anyone.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

That's what happens when you are snmart and agree with me!

Seth Hochman · 1:01 AM

Wow, I consider myself flattered...do I get any awards:)

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“YO! hello boys!!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

You get LKucy's love!

Seth Hochman · 1:01 AM

Welcome Lucy!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

OK - so some Tawks are intended to be fun - this one not so much.

Seth Hochman · 1:02 AM

This is true

Seth Hochman · 1:02 AM

No way around it

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

Even since the Trayvon Martin verdict, Seth and I have been discussing the overwhelming hypocrisy in the US

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

and we started to look at the degree to which racism is embedded in our society

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

Now, I think everyone wants to believe that the election of Obama is an indication that we've moved into a post-racial era here in the States.

Seth Hochman · 1:04 AM

Ironically, in some ways it has reversed things...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

Seth - do you think this is a case of wishful thinking, or is there some truth to the idea that Obama's election signifies a new era in race relations?

Seth Hochman · 1:05 AM

Some people, who didn't want Obama there to begin with, are fighting that much harder now that they see their World changing right before their very eyes

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

Well, I think that because of the election of Obama, and because overt racism has in fact receded dramatically since the 1950's, there is a tendency to want to move on from the subject

Seth Hochman · 1:06 AM

It is hard for them to stomach that Latinos make up an increasing amount of the electorate and in some states, like California and Florida, there is a majority minority population

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

and in fact it might mean we're taking our eye off the ball

Seth Hochman · 1:07 AM

It's true...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

so do you think that the progress that has been made has in fact made us less vigilant, and as such more succeptible to racism?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“ack Obama is a government puppet just like those before him”

Seth Hochman · 1:08 AM

looking at a lot of the issues, whether it's immigration or quotas, or fairness in employment, the tide is starting to shift

Seth Hochman · 1:09 AM

people took for granted so long that things were going to be this way, and now the other side is fighting, with all they've got to overturn these things

Seth Hochman · 1:09 AM

stating that it's a level-playing field and therefore these policies are yesterday's news

Seth Hochman · 1:10 AM

But anybody looking at the Zimmerman trial, or how differently people are treated today in America based on their minority or ethnicity knows otherwise

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Seems to me there has always been and will always be us vs them. The only thing that changes are the colors.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

This is true, Robin. The question is the degree to which we are aware of it.

Seth Hochman · 1:11 AM

That is true Robin, however policies were put into place during the 60's, such as the Voting Rights Act, EEOC, etc. to level the playing field

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

because the more we are aware of it, the less likely we are to be able to stomach it

Seth Hochman · 1:12 AM

And they worked well which is exactly why the other side wants them dismantled

Seth Hochman · 1:12 AM

But getting to the Zimmerman trial...what was your take from it JB?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

OK -so before we begin to build the case for the pervasive presence of racism, I'd like to take a quick look at the roots of racism, by highlighting 2 comments from the forum:

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Possibly another layer of distraction for the American people? Divided we fall?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“oh yes I think they purposely make people of different "races" fight against each other... when we are divided we lose track of who is screwing us. the system hi all :)”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

Quite specifically, this is the point made by Howard Zinn in The People's History Of The United States.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

His evidence shows that poor whites and blacks in pre-revolutionary America were rioting together for their rights against the rich.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

when they came together, their forces were overpowering, and so a strategy was devised to separate them.

Seth Hochman · 1:14 AM

We do know one party, with an elephant symbol, used to be a northern, white, educated party

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

Poor whites were granted slightly better rights than poor blacks

Seth Hochman · 1:15 AM

But since that was not proving to be a 'winning' formula they changed course and sought the Southern vote, particularly Southerners who were upset with the end of segregation

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:15 AM

and as such a divide was created, with poor whites no longer willing to risk the small gains they had won

Seth Hochman · 1:15 AM

That was Goldwater's platform in '64 and he was the first Republican to win deep south states in over 100 years

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“It appears to be race against race to detract from it actually being how to keep the poor from killing the rich.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:16 AM

so that's where racism was born, and seth has begun to lay out the path we've been down since

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:16 AM

slightly making gains, and then slightly having them undone

Seth Hochman · 1:16 AM

That's right, it's been kind of a tug-o-war struggle

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:17 AM

So let's start most recently with Trayvon Martin. Seth - what are the greatest frustrations for you in the rationales used behind his not guilty verdict?

Seth Hochman · 1:17 AM

What amazed me is that many people, not all, who thought Zimmerman was innocent, jumped to the same conclusion Zimmerman did

Seth Hochman · 1:18 AM

That the Black boy was the aggressor and there was no way the GZ could have instigated the fight

Seth Hochman · 1:19 AM

A lot of people are re-thinking that now in light of how GZ has gone b*tshit crazy lately, but it's too little, too late

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

So is there a sense that in spite of the shocking verdict, there may in fact be an "awakening" resulting from it? That seems to be emerging from the forum:

Seth Hochman · 1:20 AM

Amazing thing about the verdict was it was split nearly 50/50 and usually a left/ right thing

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“I'm thankful some of those who support the Powers That Be are finally coming around to fighting it but we need more of them and we need more of them to stand taller and speak louder.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“Jordan, I really have to agree with the awareness factor, they are finding it hard to hide the truth, and those who have been helping are getting fed up with it, they know it's wrong.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ Rachel -- Yep. His admin. expanded on the Nixon call for the war on crime. Like Sinclair said, "when fascism comes to America it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." I might add, in the other hand, a corporate logo.”

Seth Hochman · 1:20 AM

Great quote Michael and very prophetic for today

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:21 AM

so does this mean we all think that some awareness is arising because of such a horbile set of circumstances? Did we need a tragedy to sopark the discussion?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:21 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“The Stand Your Ground law needs to be changed. That's how Zimmerman got off. It was a technicality. That law, like many, is vague.”

Seth Hochman · 1:21 AM

Honestly, if the tables were turned does anybody think TM wouldn't have been arrested and possibly facing the death penalty?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:22 AM

I think everyone agrees with that. At least, intellectually honest or clear thinking people agree with that.

Seth Hochman · 1:22 AM

And the verdict had a lot to do with race

Seth Hochman · 1:23 AM

As celebrity attorney Mark Geragos said Racism is the dark underbelly of the legal system

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

If the roles were reversed, do you think the same legal framework would even be brought into play?

Seth Hochman · 1:23 AM

And he knew from the jury selection, 5 whites and one minority, that the prosecution lost the case in jury selection

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

Copuld Trayvon have asserted his rights under Stand Your Ground?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“I have no idea what to think about that case other than that it was clearly used to manipulate racial division.”

Seth Hochman · 1:24 AM

Just look at the two OJ trials. The first one in downtown LA with predominantly Afro-American jurors, not guilty...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“If the tables were turned, MSM wouldn't have forced it down our throats with constant coverage. It just woulda been another open-shut case, with a black guy and a gun. i realize that sounds super cynical, but true i fear.”

Seth Hochman · 1:24 AM

yet the civil trial in a suburban, white area, 12-0 guilty

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

so the coverage was more of a tool than anything else? a tool to...?

Seth Hochman · 1:25 AM

Agreed Mike....good question Jordan

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“what about the defense: "it's not racism GZ wasn't even white!" That is the defense statement that I got so angry about! It's still racism sorry”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

widen the chasm?

Seth Hochman · 1:26 AM

Sadly TM isn't around to tell his side of the story. I imagine he felt very threatened by a strange, white-Latino guy chasing him throughout the neighberhood

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:26 AM

When you actually imagine what it must have been like for him, it gets much more visceral and upsetting than from a safe emotional distance...

Seth Hochman · 1:27 AM

On a side note, there was a black woman in FL who shot her abusive husband after an altercation, she claimed stand your ground but got 20 years in jail

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:27 AM

Now THAT is the most damning indication of blatant institutional racism I have ever heard

Seth Hochman · 1:28 AM

That's another thing, as a white person it's hard to appreciate being constantly watched by police, being pulled over for no reason other than your skin color....

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

fortunately for me, I'm not white. I'm Jewish.

Seth Hochman · 1:28 AM

so it is hard for a white juror to sympathize with that...but it's certainly no excuse for the verdit

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

Seth Hochman · 1:29 AM

Lookup the case it's interesting...you look white to me

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:29 AM

although I will say this to the black community - when they come for you, they're coming for me too, so we're in this together!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:29 AM

of course you're right, Seth

Seth Hochman · 1:30 AM

lol, many Jews were helpful in ending Segregation

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

indeed -OK, let's look at some of the other damning indications pf this incredibly unjust reality of our society. I saw some good comments earlier about the privatized prison industry.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ Jordan -- Great point. Well, US comprises of a quarter of the prison population worldwide. Prison complexes ran by CCA and GEO have been booming throughout the Great Recession. Racism is apparent in that 80 percent of jailed are black/hispanic.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Although, to be fair, crime is more rampant in those communities - not because of racial predisposition but due to socio-economic factors.”

Seth Hochman · 1:31 AM

Yes, we've more prisoners than anyone...yes even China and Russia

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“MSM does a wonderful job of giving us fluff and not reporting on the increasing prison industry. We don't see inmates hanging themselves at max security prisons, but we get to see Miley twerking it.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

Now - the state of the prison industry is more screwed up than just racism.

Seth Hochman · 1:32 AM

For-profit prisons are a joke, they've the highest recitivism rate, rate of prisoners returning to prison, and...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

the blatantly obvious conflicts of interest with tying profits to the size of the prison population is outrageous

Seth Hochman · 1:32 AM

they do not save taxpayers money, they cost a lot more...there only incentive is to have more customers, aka prisoners, and they've to be guaranteed a certain number of prisoners to build a prison

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

I know - the entire justification for doing it is a total fabrication - costs the taxpayers WSAY MORE MONEY

Seth Hochman · 1:34 AM

Unfortunately Blacks and Hispanics are arrested way more often than whites mainly due to unfair policing, lack of money for attorneys, etc.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:34 AM

Exactly -leaving the basic stupidity of private prisons aside - what they expose is even more pernicious

Seth Hochman · 1:34 AM

But the majority of 'crimes' are petty crimes. In fact, half of the prison population, I believe, is in for marijuana

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

it is a systematic targetting of the people least able to defend themselves

Seth Hochman · 1:35 AM

In some states, for-profit prisons are bankrolling political candidates just to insure marijuana remains illegal and has harsh sentences so the prisons are guaranteed "customers" for a long time

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“JB, you have done 3 Tawks with me. :P”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

OMG -you're right!

Seth Hochman · 1:36 AM

The US is the only place in the World that has for-profit prisons...because there incentive is only to jail as many people for as long as possible

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“Did y'all know they are now using prisoners to mass produce stuff for corporations? It's slave labor.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

It's all very "Shawshank Redemption"

Seth Hochman · 1:36 AM

In Colorado and Washington they legalized marijuana yet there are nearly 1.5 million people in jail because of Mary J

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

i like that Texas or Arizona prison warden who makes all the prisoners sleep in tents and wear pink

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

So this of course leaves us in a familiar place - blatant criminality happening in OUR name (the citizenry), and we are powerless to do anything about it. Money in politics, anyone?

Seth Hochman · 1:38 AM

Yes R I saw Sherriff Joe Arpaio, who I think is being sued by the Feds for discrimination and unlawful treatment of prisoners, did that

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

But some of the comments from the forum are making me think this: are we maybe a little responsible ourselves?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mano Dogs

“And the constant fearmongering has too many people to willing ot give up their rights, liverties,and freedoms for the illusion of safety.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

are we allowing ourselves to play along?

Seth Hochman · 1:39 AM

Absolutely due to Citizens United, and some other awful rulings by the Supreme Court, Big Business and the billionaires who run those business control about half of the politicians

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

are we convicting minorities when we have jury duty? would we give a pass to a white defendant?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

is the brainwashing working on us?

Seth Hochman · 1:40 AM

The top 2% can legally bankroll elections and that is why it's a fight for a simple 3% tax increase on millionaires

Seth Hochman · 1:40 AM

We also have to look at Death Row...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

Just another damning set of stats

Seth Hochman · 1:41 AM

the vast majority on Death Row are black, and how many times have we heard there was DNA evidence that overturned the verdict?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

the discrepancy in death sentences by race is staggering

Seth Hochman · 1:41 AM

But many times they simply cannot afford a good lawyer and suffer because of that

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

So the prosecutors and the judges across the country who are arguing for / handing down these sentences, I doubt they think they are racist.

Seth Hochman · 1:42 AM

Another thing to look at is I believe over half of black males have been arrested at one point in their lives

Seth Hochman · 1:42 AM

usually for really petty things, yet it still destroys their ability to get a decent job, and they've problems getting a mortgage, car loan, etc. as a result

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

sure, and think about the emotional ramifications of that for the entire commuity. It's not like you get arrested and there no consequences to arise from it.

Seth Hochman · 1:43 AM

So it becomes a perpetual cycle

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I think people do take the easy way out and rely on stereotypes and the status quo vs. looking at the facts and we are partially to blame for that society is also to blame for brainwashing us to hate on eachother”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

or lack of wealth racism

Seth Hochman · 1:43 AM

Even Pat Robertson, not exactly a liberal, said we've to stop arresting people for petty drug crimes

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

and back to my earlier point - these prosecutors and judges don't think they're racist. But how could you conclude anything different when you consider the statistics?

Seth Hochman · 1:44 AM

In other countries people get rehab when they're caught with drugs, which should be the first thing that happens

Seth Hochman · 1:45 AM

And also look at the massive expense it is to keep people in jail. We're over $17 trillion in debt yet we've the largest prison population by far, many of them for super petty crimes...it costs over $30,000/yr to have someone in jail

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Jailing people for illness (addiction) makes about as much sense as having rape victims foot the cost for the rape test kits.”

Seth Hochman · 1:46 AM

Just think if we gave the 1.5 million Mary J users rehab instead of prison, how much we would save

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:46 AM

let's not pretend marijuana requires rehab.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“Portugal ought to be a model for us. They decriminalized drugs in 2001. Before that they had the most drug crimes; but now that they treat it like a health issue, the numbers of drug users has gone down dramatically.”

Seth Hochman · 1:47 AM

And many times the people going to jail for little things like marijuana end up becoming harden criminals to simply survive in an environment like that with gangs and violence everywhere

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

So let's pile on this mountain of s**t. Let's tawk about The Voting Rights Act. Who's head exploded when you heard that verdict. (I am raising my hand.)

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

Whose

Seth Hochman · 1:47 AM

Ditto...but I'm not that surprised

Seth Hochman · 1:48 AM

It was another 5-4 vote, four wealthy, white men and Uncle Thomas

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

lol

Seth Hochman · 1:48 AM

Amazing how Thomas forgot that he got to school because of affirmative action yet he is so willing to pull the ladder away once 'he got his'

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

have you ever heard a more non-sensical argument in your life? It's working, so let's stop it!

Seth Hochman · 1:49 AM

Somebody once called Clarence Thomas a self-hating, black man and the more I think about that, and see his actions, the more I think it's true

Seth Hochman · 1:49 AM

Esp. when you look at all the Voter suppression in the last election and who it was aimed at

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

Yes -another instance of blatant criminality in our ihnstitutions, and we sitting powerless to witness it.

Seth Hochman · 1:50 AM

The only Voter Fraud was the ridiculous rigging of elections that took place in Tea Party states

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:51 AM

so, when we were earlier talking about the degree to which well-intentioned people may unintentionally be contributing to the problem...

Seth Hochman · 1:51 AM

How so?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:51 AM

I think language is an excellent example of how that can permeate into our ways of thinking:

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“One of the most telling indicators of the racism (and sexism) in this country is in our language - common parlance. Pay attention for a week or two and listen to the words we choose.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Words are thoughts. They become actions. That's where the first changes HAVE to happen.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ Rebecca -- Ya you could put your Chomsky hat on and look at the linguistic, rhetorical formations of say, FOX News anchors and see how the very language perpetuates racism and sexism.”

Seth Hochman · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Uncle Thomas is a prime example of how the lense of Washington distorts perception of the real world.”

Seth Hochman · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“aint it amazing how much a vote costs these days? :-/”

Seth Hochman · 1:53 AM

It's amazing...like during the '08 election I remember Palin saying he isn't one of us--referring to Obama, he doesn't think like us

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I got in a debate with someone on what happened in the Voting Right's act this year and their argument was 'well why can't they get a government issues ID (driver's license) my response was well the poor often can't afford a car and thus now ID.”

Seth Hochman · 1:54 AM

Amazing Rachel that the very same people insisting on voter ID's insist on no background checks on guns

Seth Hochman · 1:54 AM

So it's A-Okay to buy an assault riffle with unlimited bullets, yet to vote I need ID

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

So there is a common thread in all of these things - the legal system, the prison industry, political power, the roots of racism...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

at its core, racism is driven and motivated by PROFIT

Seth Hochman · 1:55 AM

To some degree true...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

maintaining the stauts quo ios a means of maintaining political power and creating discrete revenue streams

Seth Hochman · 1:56 AM

Ever since 1980 there has been a strong movement for corporations to take over the govt

Seth Hochman · 1:57 AM

and unfortunately some minorities lack the political or financial capital to have a lot of say in a govt run by billionaires and big business

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

so what are we going to do about it, because:

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rich Hagberg

“So we're back where we started when we came to this continent..... skip a step...repeat whole thing over....”

Seth Hochman · 1:57 AM

As a result they find themselves victims of a system that is pay-to-play

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

of course, step one is always raising awareness.

Seth Hochman · 1:57 AM

Rich in a lot of ways we're becoming like France, pre-revolution

Seth Hochman · 1:58 AM

The US has the greatest imbalance of income of any modern country

Seth Hochman · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“@ Michael - I ALWAYS think "Fuck Ann Coulter!" immediately when someone mentions her. It's like Tourette's or something!”

Seth Hochman · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“@ Rebecca -- Or how Ann Coulter referred to Obama as a monkey the other nite when talking about the Syrian conflict... She is awfully tasteful, that girl.”

Seth Hochman · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“@ Michael - Geez, I cannot watch Fox news because the subtext makes me want to vomit. Their phrasing, their whiteness, their economic discrimination...it is like listening to a nail being dragged on glass. Ack!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:58 AM

so like with all our systemic problems, the solutions are actually not that hard to find. Implementing them, though, is impossible.

Seth Hochman · 1:59 AM

The thing that is surprising Mike is not that there are Ann Coulters, Glenn Beck's etc but that they've such a large audience

Seth Hochman · 1:59 AM

Fox News is another indication of how big business is taking over the govt. Instead of simply reporting news, like the Big three and CNN always did...

Seth Hochman · 2:00 AM

Fox decided it was going to be a propaganda network for Big Business and the Republican party, which of course is run by Big Business

Seth Hochman · 2:01 AM

The solutions are not hard Jordan...they're clear

Seth Hochman · 2:01 AM

Citizens United must be overturned...and we must get money out of poltiics

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

Holy Moly - that hour FLEW by. There's a lot more for us to discuss on this topic, and I think we could spend quite a bit of time imagining how to unravel ourselves from all of this.

Seth Hochman · 2:02 AM

All elections should be publicly funded, so every candidate gets the same amount of money and has no reason to sellout their values to a billionaire willing to bankroll their campaign

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

It's so true Seth!

Seth Hochman · 2:03 AM

Just based on those two things, you would eliminate many, if not, most of the problems with the govt

Seth Hochman · 2:03 AM

I think we

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

But right now, our friend Rebecca is hosting a new Tawk, and I'm a little sick of hearing myself, so it might be time to check in over there!

Seth Hochman · 2:03 AM

I think we'll have to Jordan, since I'm tied with Rebecca now:)

Seth Hochman · 2:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@rachel - i always try and make up my own mind. sometimes thats goes against what the "popular" consensus is but i dont give a dam”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

seth - we will certainly meet in this arena again.

Seth Hochman · 2:04 AM

Sounds good, maybe a lighter topic next time

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

it's a tease of how loud the voices in your head are

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

You have no idea! forum - I am so grateful for each of you - hyperbole I'll grant you, but you do restiore my faith in humanity.

Seth Hochman · 2:05 AM

Goodnight all!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

see you soon, and remember you are NOT alone!

Seth Hochman · 2:05 AM

I think I'll join you in the other chat for a bit Jordan and Rachel

Seth Hochman · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Micklow

“oops *tawk I should say ;)”

Seth Hochman · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“@rachal - dam right!”

Seth Hochman · 2:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“@Lucy well that's the whole point we should be able to be free from propaganda and psychological blackmail long enough for us to make up our own minds but we are basically good people and those in charge know that and they can't have us caring”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

here's the link to Becca: http://tawke.rs/15vZ4cV

Seth Hochman · 3:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rebecca Westbrook Toker

“Come on over to our Tawk now - we may beed your advice!”

Forum · 178

Forum· 178 comments

76 visitors

Michael MicklowSep 18, 2013, 8:31 PM

Hey guys, this tawk looks interesting but unfortunately I have to work at this time. Good luck with the tawk.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:00 AM★ Spotlighted

YO! hello boys!!

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:01 AM

Hi, Lucy, Tawkers!

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:01 AM

hey Mano!

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:01 AM

Hockman! I thought you said Rogan!

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:02 AM

love you too!!! *blows a sloppy wet one at you* :-)

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:02 AM

Joe Rogan? Why would you think anyone said that? "Hochman" isn't even CLOSE to "Rogan."

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:03 AM

yeah hochman has way too many letter for rogan

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:03 AM

@ Jordan, ah but the best comedy is when it is juxtaposed to tragedy..

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:03 AM

Why do I have a volume indicator? It keeps going up every time I come in here yet I hear nothing.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:04 AM

i think no matter how hard you try to get rid of rasism,there will always be someone somewhere who is

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:04 AM

Does anybody here have a sense of humor or am I in the wrong room, which I'm suspecting.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:04 AM

and i cant spell tonight! lol dam it

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:04 AM

i think i have one Robin

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:06 AM

So, maybe we could say it has intensified things?

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:06 AM

one world,one race,one love...simple as,right?

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:06 AM

seems simple too me Lucy!

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:07 AM

Sorry, Robin, I guess we didn't get the joke.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:07 AM

Obama is a good ol boy now. He was never really concerned with race relations or system abuses leveled at certain ethnicities; he was only concerned with filling out his Washington Rolodex to cash in when he gets out. Hence, no immigration reform.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:07 AM★ Spotlighted

ack Obama is a government puppet just like those before him

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:08 AM★ Spotlighted

Seems to me there has always been and will always be us vs them. The only thing that changes are the colors.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:08 AM

oh btw guys,if you want JB or seth to see what you are saying...hit that THUMB!!!

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:09 AM★ Spotlighted

Possibly another layer of distraction for the American people? Divided we fall?

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:09 AM

but it shouldnt be like that,Robin

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:09 AM★ Spotlighted

@ Jordan -- Great point. Well, US comprises of a quarter of the prison population worldwide. Prison complexes ran by CCA and GEO have been booming throughout the Great Recession. Racism is apparent in that 80 percent of jailed are black/hispanic.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:10 AM

@michael -you are SO true

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:10 AM★ Spotlighted

oh yes I think they purposely make people of different "races" fight against each other... when we are divided we lose track of who is screwing us. the system hi all :)

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:10 AM

But the government must always keep us united on a common enemy or they lose control of us. Consider that.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:10 AM★ Spotlighted

Although, to be fair, crime is more rampant in those communities - not because of racial predisposition but due to socio-economic factors.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:10 AM

yeah but the trouble is Robin,we are waking up to that fact. and the government is shitting itself

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:11 AM

exactly Mano! but people blame it on the color of their skin when really people of color get held down at the bottom more and forced to live in those environments that breed violence and crime out of necessity of things like trying to feedtheirkids

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:11 AM★ Spotlighted

MSM does a wonderful job of giving us fluff and not reporting on the increasing prison industry. We don't see inmates hanging themselves at max security prisons, but we get to see Miley twerking it.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:11 AM

wanna hear about us and them? just watch the mainstream media...

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:12 AM

And I'm sure that went just swimmingly.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:12 AM

but Seth,didnt they just demolish the voting rights somewhere?

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:12 AM

Media slants the views to control the direction an event goes in

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:12 AM

"believe nothing,question everything"

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:13 AM

@ Mano -- Crime is more rampant because quotas and minimum sentencing requirements are more stringent than elsewhere, say the suburbs. This is why you have a longer sentencing for crack cocaine as opposed to cocaine, latter used by yuppies.

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:14 AM★ Spotlighted

Jordan, I really have to agree with the awareness factor, they are finding it hard to hide the truth, and those who have been helping are getting fed up with it, they know it's wrong.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:14 AM

much like Occupy is doing today JB

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:14 AM

@Michael you can thank the Regan administration for the 5:1 rule on crack vs. powder cocaine the same substance but crack was used by minorities so they get longer sentencing racism defined in that "law"

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:15 AM★ Spotlighted

It appears to be race against race to detract from it actually being how to keep the poor from killing the rich.

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:16 AM

SH - you're right. They didn't free the slaves because people needed a cleaning lady. They freed slaves for votes.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:16 AM★ Spotlighted

I'm thankful some of those who support the Powers That Be are finally coming around to fighting it but we need more of them and we need more of them to stand taller and speak louder.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:16 AM★ Spotlighted

@ Rachel -- Yep. His admin. expanded on the Nixon call for the war on crime. Like Sinclair said, "when fascism comes to America it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." I might add, in the other hand, a corporate logo.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:16 AM

the worse the economy gets the worse it will get for all of the 99% and the more the system will have to rely on stereotypes to hold its power over dividing us omg that's why they are making us dumber!

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:17 AM

We also need to overcome the fear and conditioning we've grown tolerant of. Most of that conditioning relies on fear to work, after all.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:18 AM

Well there's a hell of a lot of fascism involved on the PC side of things too. That's conditioning of a different sort, telling us what words we can use and how we can feel about things.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:18 AM

and why did they jump to that conclusion? i would say mainly cos of the MSM

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:18 AM

We all know if Zimmerman was a black man, he'd have been convicted.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:19 AM★ Spotlighted

The Stand Your Ground law needs to be changed. That's how Zimmerman got off. It was a technicality. That law, like many, is vague.

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:19 AM

GZ will OJ his way i to jail. Beware the telltale heart.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:20 AM

GZ is a fucking psychopath and we put him back on the streets... prison is no longer for psychopaths.. the system works FOR them and against minority and poor people poor Trayvon :(

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:20 AM

By convincing us that we have a "right" to be offended and need to be bypersensitive to this right while simultaneously remaining hyperaware of others' same right and hypervigilant in promoting this right while shaming and demeaning those

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:21 AM

who transgress against it, we are always finding fights with one another.

C. Brian SmithSep 20, 2013, 1:22 AM

But can Barack Obama be the person who tips the scale here?

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:22 AM★ Spotlighted

what about the defense: "it's not racism GZ wasn't even white!" That is the defense statement that I got so angry about! It's still racism sorry

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:22 AM★ Spotlighted

I have no idea what to think about that case other than that it was clearly used to manipulate racial division.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:23 AM★ Spotlighted

If the tables were turned, MSM wouldn't have forced it down our throats with constant coverage. It just woulda been another open-shut case, with a black guy and a gun. i realize that sounds super cynical, but true i fear.

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:24 AM

Why not?

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:25 AM

Race is a dirty word for money.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:25 AM

@ Rachel -- True. He was, however, the symbol of safety and security for a predominately white, affluent gated neighborhood..

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:26 AM

I agree @Mano - it was to create even further division among minorities in this case Mexican Americans and African Americans they were becoming too united in being the most widely discriminated minorities of this country

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:27 AM

Wannabe.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:27 AM

@Michael also true... so again it is all about affluence(wealth) over the poor

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:27 AM

Cop wannabe. Failed the test.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:28 AM

@ Rachel -- if one lives in a fascist state that was born on racial supremacy, yes. I mean, that is up for debate I suppose. But I think that describes our national heritage quite well, unfortunately...

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:28 AM

Like I said, racism is code for elitism.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:29 AM

especially considering she was scared for her life! misogyny played its part in her verdict too.. the poor. minorities, and women just really need to stop trying to be equal to everyone else *sarcasm*

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:29 AM

agreed Robin

Robin BakaySep 20, 2013, 1:30 AM

They've been coming for my tribe since Hitler.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:31 AM

@ Robin -- eugenics was born out of, not Germany, but rather America. The Rockefeller foundation began studying it in late nineteenth century. A young Dr. Mengela was actually part of the program...

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:31 AM

they already slaughtered my ancestors (Natives) they think we should be "lucky" to be Native and still live here

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:33 AM★ Spotlighted

JB, you have done 3 Tawks with me. :P

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:33 AM

@ Jordan -- Yes it is! We are morally incarcerated with these non-substantive issues that are given to us through MSM. You gotta just turn off and find news elsewhere -- i.e. Democracy Now! or RT.com

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:34 AM

nothing makes me more mad than people who support the massive prison industrial complex in this country and the war on drugs.. the stats don't lie it is all about keeping the poor in check so they don't rise up and fight for something better &racist

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:34 AM

It is all about the image of safety and security. As long as they are jailing people and as long as cops are cracking down on drugs, then the people feel safe. Whether or not that safety has any factual value or not is quite another question.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:34 AM★ Spotlighted

Did y'all know they are now using prisoners to mass produce stuff for corporations? It's slave labor.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:35 AM

even tho white collar crimes cost the country billions of more dollars than the petty crimes people get locked away for and taxpayers blame the victim

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:35 AM★ Spotlighted

And the constant fearmongering has too many people to willing ot give up their rights, liverties,and freedoms for the illusion of safety.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:35 AM

@ Seth -- Yes, that is true. Most of the prison population I think is due to some form of drug abuse. This ought to be treated as a mental issue not a criminal one. Take Portugal as a model..

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:36 AM

They are literally closing prisons in other countries due to lack of prisoners.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:36 AM

Kentucky abolished for-profit prisons.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:36 AM

Ya they make license plates and answer phones for customer support. Fuckery.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:37 AM

Now the fed IS backing off enforcing marijuana laws at the state level, so that's a good thing.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:38 AM

ok yes the war on marijuana is something that gets me just as upset..

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:39 AM

Now that I did not know, Seth Hochman! About time someone got on to Arpaio.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:39 AM

And then of course there is the long-distance calling scam.. I think it was CCA that was overcharging phone calls to inmates and loved ones. Fuckery.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:40 AM

people blame the victim because it is easier than admitting that the system is screwing us... and on racism and stereotypes we are forced to believe at an early age and you have a recipe for the people not standing up against thingslike profitprisons

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:40 AM

It is absolutely brainwashing. Fear and conditioning.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:41 AM

@R true and again that is war on the poor.. and many minorities are disproportionately poor

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:42 AM★ Spotlighted

I think people do take the easy way out and rely on stereotypes and the status quo vs. looking at the facts and we are partially to blame for that society is also to blame for brainwashing us to hate on eachother

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:43 AM

"a man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client" - The Addams Family

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:43 AM

@ Seth -- Yep. I've heard that stat. And then then this automatically labels them. And if they are felons, they do not qualify for things like education aid and it is hard for them to get jobs. So they return to crime.. cycle of oppression.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:45 AM

@ Seth -- LOL. jeeeebus. even pat, the guy who thinks natural disasters like the one in haiti was due to god punishing them for entering into a deal with the devil.. suddenly even this quack is sound reasonable. sheeeesh.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:45 AM

@Rachel and vice-versa, Rachel (or vise-versa?) in that people are just as quick to reject what they consider to be stereotypes too.

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:45 AM

Rachel, would you say we have lost our sense of personal responsibility and along with that our integrity?

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:45 AM

The OJ verdict, for instance.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:45 AM

really shouldn't the whole point of being put in prison be whether you hurt someone? Who cares what people put in their bodies if they aren't hurting anyone or prescription pill users should go to rehab too

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:45 AM

and people who drink

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:45 AM★ Spotlighted

Jailing people for illness (addiction) makes about as much sense as having rape victims foot the cost for the rape test kits.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:46 AM★ Spotlighted

Portugal ought to be a model for us. They decriminalized drugs in 2001. Before that they had the most drug crimes; but now that they treat it like a health issue, the numbers of drug users has gone down dramatically.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:46 AM

@Rich yes and no I think we have lost our integrity because we gave up our personal responsibility for the easier path

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:47 AM

Maybe that is the bigger picture, or how would have any of this come about?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:47 AM★ Spotlighted

One of the most telling indicators of the racism (and sexism) in this country is in our language - common parlance. Pay attention for a week or two and listen to the words we choose.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:47 AM

thank you Jordan! Marijuana has so many health and environmental benefits it is through the roof!

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:47 AM

ok i'm back. my computer exploded! anyone miss me? did i miss anything?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:47 AM

The words are divisive, discriminatory and violent.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:48 AM★ Spotlighted

Words are thoughts. They become actions. That's where the first changes HAVE to happen.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:48 AM★ Spotlighted

@ Rebecca -- Ya you could put your Chomsky hat on and look at the linguistic, rhetorical formations of say, FOX News anchors and see how the very language perpetuates racism and sexism.

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:49 AM

Like, culture wars

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:50 AM

Hey what are we talking about?

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:50 AM

I think unfortunately money has trumped being loyal to yourself and where you come from. Money runs the system and those in the system become willing slaves to the $ sign they probably all hate themselves deep down

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:50 AM

Tawking

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:50 AM

That is true to an extent, Rebecca, but actions DO speak louder than words.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:50 AM★ Spotlighted

Uncle Thomas is a prime example of how the lense of Washington distorts perception of the real world.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:50 AM★ Spotlighted

aint it amazing how much a vote costs these days? :-/

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:51 AM

Or O'Reilly's oft reference to "the folks." If that isn't reference old white guys that go to church and talk about how Islam is a religion of hate or how woman just don't get it, then i dont know what is..

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:52 AM

vote rigging has been going on for years,its just until recently,no-one cared

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:52 AM★ Spotlighted

I got in a debate with someone on what happened in the Voting Right's act this year and their argument was 'well why can't they get a government issues ID (driver's license) my response was well the poor often can't afford a car and thus now ID.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:52 AM

(...) therefor it is discriminatory

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:52 AM

A lot of people say things they don't mean and this increasing attention to that is a subversive way of keeping people in-line. It's a form of conditioning.

Rich HagbergSep 20, 2013, 1:52 AM★ Spotlighted

So we're back where we started when we came to this continent..... skip a step...repeat whole thing over....

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:53 AM

BUT, again, you definitely have a point. I think angry people use angry words but not all angy people resort to violence.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:53 AM

mano,people get told what they want to by the very same people who tell the government what to d and say

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:53 AM

oop *no id I meant :p

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:54 AM

"we are the puppet people....."

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:54 AM★ Spotlighted

@ Rebecca -- Or how Ann Coulter referred to Obama as a monkey the other nite when talking about the Syrian conflict... She is awfully tasteful, that girl.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:55 AM

the common thread here JB,is money in politics. which is what should be gotten rid of

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:55 AM

@ Seth -- YES, she did say that. She totally played the race card there. As if living in a frozen tundra and dodging moose and talking in weird high-pitched tones is the 'Murican way.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:55 AM★ Spotlighted

@ Michael - Geez, I cannot watch Fox news because the subtext makes me want to vomit. Their phrasing, their whiteness, their economic discrimination...it is like listening to a nail being dragged on glass. Ack!

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:56 AM

@ Rebecca -- I rarely can watch more than a snippet or two before my earballs start to shoot steam out.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:56 AM

ann coulter is a poor mans rush limbaugh

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:56 AM

all started in this country with slavery and suppression of the Natives they needed a way for people to be "ok" with suppressing these people, because those in control were making so much money off slavery and gaining land.

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:56 AM★ Spotlighted

@ Michael - I ALWAYS think "Fuck Ann Coulter!" immediately when someone mentions her. It's like Tourette's or something!

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:56 AM

Does anyone walk down the street - see a guy/girl that is of a different race and immediately feel afraid?

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:56 AM

enter racism, which I think was started by the system

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 1:57 AM

I've noticed that all of you keep discussing news outlets. What's the longest ou've gone without watching the news?

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:57 AM

yeah ... But does anyone ever judge because of race

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:57 AM

Immediately

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:57 AM

@ Rebecca -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz9hrmvugBE

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:58 AM

Mano,i havent watched the news in a couple of years.

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:58 AM

sure - I get that

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:58 AM

ooops -- that was a foreign version of it hahaha

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:58 AM

Do you ever judge on race - in ur heart of hearts?

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 1:58 AM

@R unfortunately perpetuating the system's ever growing hold over the internet is pitfall of relying on online I am guilty of it too, but another way they control us :/

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:58 AM

More or less, when I was in Peace Corps I was unplugged for the better part of two years. But now, it's like a sick obsession (news).

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 1:59 AM

@ Rebecca -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBhlyXQeAL0

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:59 AM

im not saying we hold onto it but in the first instance?

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 1:59 AM

Um, yes Seth, that is the disturbing part!

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 1:59 AM

so you dont judge race at all?

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 1:59 AM

like i have said before "believe nothing,question EVERYTHING!". and thats what the governments of the world are afraid we will do

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 2:00 AM

good for u - I do

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 2:00 AM

I cant help it

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 2:00 AM

@Lucy and that's why informing ourselves is one of our biggest weapons right now.. and why the MSM has become a counteract on actual knowledge :/

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 2:00 AM

I dont hold onto it but I do

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 2:01 AM

If I see an an aboriginal person at 2am on a vacant train platform - I know Im good as bashed

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

@rachel - i always try and make up my own mind. sometimes thats goes against what the "popular" consensus is but i dont give a dam

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 2:01 AM

I know ...:)

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 2:01 AM

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 2:01 AM

@ Seth -- Right. It mystifies me. I mean, my entire family loves her. I am the black sheep in the family. It's rather embarrassing to think that somebody that is so obviously predisposed to hatred can gain so much traction. sign-o-the-times.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 2:02 AM

Turrible. That's turrible.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 2:02 AM

back to FB JB and SETH to continue this discussion?

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 2:03 AM★ Spotlighted

@Lucy well that's the whole point we should be able to be free from propaganda and psychological blackmail long enough for us to make up our own minds but we are basically good people and those in charge know that and they can't have us caring

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 2:03 AM

Aright, I'm out. Great talk everybody! Thanks Jordan and Seth.

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 2:03 AM★ Spotlighted

@rachal - dam right!

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 2:04 AM

Again, anyone know what this volume indicator is for?

Michael MicklowSep 20, 2013, 2:04 AM★ Spotlighted

oops *tawk I should say ;)

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 2:04 AM

mano,go to the help section,it explains it all there

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 2:04 AM

It's fairly accurate.

Rachel McDonnellSep 20, 2013, 2:04 AM

great tawk Jordan and Seth! :)

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 2:05 AM

Okay thanks, and where is the help section?

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 2:05 AM

awesome sauce Tawk you guys!! thank you

Jason AndrewsSep 20, 2013, 2:05 AM

i wish I felt the same about witchetygrubs

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 2:05 AM

You're right though I still have no idea.

Mano DogsSep 20, 2013, 2:05 AM

Bye Tawkers!!!!

Lucy DyerSep 20, 2013, 2:06 AM

see you in the other chat guys!! TTFN!!

Rebecca Westbrook TokerSep 20, 2013, 2:06 AM★ Spotlighted

Come on over to our Tawk now - we may beed your advice!