Rebecca Westbrook Toker

Host

The Rise of the Global Police State

Sep 14, 2013·67 visitors

k caslava

Cohost

Stage· 296 messages

Sep 14, 2013

Paranoid Android Kevin Caslava joins us to discuss the implications of NSA surveillance, the Global Police State, how to minimize your digital footprint and what to do when the police state turns on people like you.

k caslava · 11:00 PM

hello world.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:00 PM

Hello and welcome to everyone.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:00 PM

Hey, K. Nice to see you.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:01 PM

If this is your first time, welcome! Log in to participate. nAudience members, you can log comments, ask questions and chat amongst yourselves. Be sure to click on the “Who’s Here?” button and click to listen to the other audience members so you can

k caslava · 11:01 PM

Hey there becky. Thanks for inviting me to do this thing.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:01 PM

Comments can be “upvoted” by clicking the thumbs-up sign in the bottom right corner. This will change the comment to “Overheard” status, as signified by the blue OH symbol in the upper left-hand corner.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:01 PM

The hosts can see your comments only after they’ve been “Overheard.” We’ll try to spotlight these comments to answer your questions and include as many comments as possible. Glad you’re here!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:02 PM

Okay, with that done, welcome, kevin. Nice to see you on the Tawker's stage.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:02 PM

Let's give the audience a little background on you.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:02 PM

Who is this guy?

k caslava · 11:02 PM

Haha, ok

k caslava · 11:03 PM

Well, to begin with, I am american by birth, I lived there for the majority of my life, and went so far as to take a job working for the US government.

k caslava · 11:03 PM

That's where you and I met, working together in Central America. Well, more precisely, we met because I'd been booted out of my position, as a result of my online communications.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:04 PM

That's a fun story!

k caslava · 11:04 PM

And that for me, on top of several other things, led to my interest in what we're here calling the Global Police State, but could just be called the global surveillance state, or the matrix, or whatever you like.

k caslava · 11:04 PM

Yeah, that's a good enough story.

k caslava · 11:05 PM

Once upon a time, I worked for the Peace Corps in Honduras. And in the course of my time there, I was writing, quite a bit actually.

k caslava · 11:05 PM

Writing to classes of school children, writing home to my family, writing to a wide network of interested listeners, who wanted to know about the Peace Corps, Honduras, or just my ramblings and musings.

k caslava · 11:06 PM

And after some months of this, I'd amassed enough listeners that one of them, who was dating a newspaper editor, put us into contact.

k caslava · 11:06 PM

And she put some of my work into her paper

k caslava · 11:06 PM

That was on a Thursday. On Monday, I was called into the Peace Corps head office, and summarily fired.

k caslava · 11:07 PM

They had, in those 100 hours, found everything I'd ever written, on Facebook, Twitter, my personal blog, in US media, under pseudonyms, you name it.

k caslava · 11:08 PM

I was confronted with a ream or more of paper, organized and categorized with my online life of at least the past four years, across a variety of platforms, and including some of what I had previously thought to be "private" communications.

k caslava · 11:08 PM

Turns out privacy doesn't really apply to those who can compel the owners of major websites to turn over your data.

k caslava · 11:09 PM

So I was given a plane ticket home, and told to leave. And instead I took my government issue passport and hopped on a bus.

k caslava · 11:09 PM

Lived the next year across central america, and got into a whole lot of other trouble that doesn't much fit the topic.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:09 PM

So...if anybody has a reason to be paranoid, it's you. That's a terrifying experience, and it sort of ruined what was going on in your life at the time.

k caslava · 11:10 PM

It destroyed my entire life. I wasn't even doing anything that could be considered "bad." The writing that was in that paper was already released 3 months prior via approved channels.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:10 PM

Because getting g into the Peace Corps and leaving your life for 2-3 years is not cheap or easy, which is why not many manage it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“so why did they show you this data? to scare you? or just as evidence of why you were being fired?”

k caslava · 11:11 PM

Rachel - they saw some of this data as evidence that others within their organization were involved in behavior they didn't approve of. I was offered continued employment if I gave up my colleagues.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:11 PM

Sick.

k caslava · 11:11 PM

I believe it was also an intimidation tactic. "We know what you're doing and who you are."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:12 PM

"See how much we know???"

k caslava · 11:12 PM

But I was lucky enough to be in a position where, young and wild, the bit of money and language skills I had were enough to give me an alternative.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:13 PM

Well, and you were angry enough and willful enough to figure out a way to not return home beaten.

k caslava · 11:13 PM

In the end, I was told point blank that I was being made an example of. It wasn't about me, it was about telling all peace corps volunteers that they were forbidden to speak except through official channels. The new policy had just come into effect.

k caslava · 11:13 PM

That also, Becky.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:14 PM

i actually had a really hard time believing your story when I heard it. It just...how could they do that, you know?

k caslava · 11:14 PM

I don't know if anyone realizes that it takes 2-3 years to enter the Peace Corps, and that it is a 2 year commitment to a very difficult life. And having made that all, having said goodbye to my entire life, I faced the utter destruction of my life.

k caslava · 11:15 PM

Anyway, I've written a lot more of that on a blog I kept at the time.

k caslava · 11:15 PM

It's called Mental Cigarettes, I'm sure it's searchable.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:15 PM

Oh, that's a good joke.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:15 PM

SO, that brings us to our premise here today.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:16 PM

Which is:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:17 PM

that the surveillance state has been growing increasingly with no oversight and very little public resistance since 2001.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:17 PM

And we should be scared and we should be doing something.

k caslava · 11:17 PM

The rise of the global police state, and what that entails on a personal level

k caslava · 11:18 PM

is that everything you do, every movement you make daily, every purchase, payment, every interaction, every relationship, everything that makes up the fabric of your daily life is now being recorded, stored, and analyzed for patterns.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:18 PM

Great!

k caslava · 11:18 PM

These patterns are what we call "your personality" and your inner thoughts

k caslava · 11:19 PM

We're at, right now, not at some future date, the point where your future behavior can be reliably predicted, and using your past information, you can be found guilty of any number of illegal actions.

k caslava · 11:20 PM

My machine is having trouble with the site - typing issues. Sorry to be so slow at it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:20 PM

It's cool. Hitting refresh occasionally helps. :)

k caslava · 11:21 PM

Here's an interesting tidbit - my computer spontaneously generated a process using "image capture" that was sucking up all my spare computer cycles.

k caslava · 11:22 PM

Probably a coincidence.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“It seems to me that the collapse happened officially on 9/11.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:22 PM

That's not too strange an idea, Robin.

k caslava · 11:23 PM

And every time I kill the running process, it immediately recreates itself. Again, probably a coincidence.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:23 PM

How...convenient. ;)

k caslava · 11:23 PM

So, this is my public computer. The one tied to my identity, the identity as a known troublemaker, activist, and all around pain in the ass.

k caslava · 11:23 PM

And this machine gets some very interesting attacks and visitors

k caslava · 11:24 PM

In any case, part of what I'm trying to address is the ubiquity and unavoidable nature of surveillance

k caslava · 11:24 PM

and the dangers this poses to anything resembling a free society.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:24 PM

Sigh. Well, we know that some US military kiddos are assigned to create fake identities and troll all over the internet. It's likely that there are virus trolls employed by the gov, as well.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:25 PM

So what do you think about the 9-11 thing?

k caslava · 11:25 PM

More than likely, actually working in the wild these days.

k caslava · 11:26 PM

The FBI recently raided an irish-run internet service provider, and replaced their websites with an error message that also logged your computers unique identifiers and location and sent them back to Virginia.

k caslava · 11:26 PM

9/11, the 24/7 excuse for everything?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:26 PM

And this:

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“I guess the question is in this world of surveillance is what is America hiding?”

k caslava · 11:27 PM

I think it has been very effectively leveraged into the justification for moving beyond soft (economic) empire, toward hard (force based) empire

k caslava · 11:27 PM

What America is hiding might be best called the "shadow government" if we want to wear tin hats, or the military-industrial-media-intelligence-surveillance complex

k caslava · 11:28 PM

which keeps getting more complex, and more interconnected. And global. It is not an american problem, global surveillance. The USA is simply best positioned to do it, by sitting at the center of the empire.

k caslava · 11:29 PM

center of the internet, that is.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:29 PM

Did you mean America, as in the government, or Americans, the citizenry?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:29 PM

Because the citizenry isn;t hiding much.

k caslava · 11:29 PM

As the big tech companies almost all sit within the USA, the US government holds the ability to copy all internet traffic to and from google, facebook, microsoft, skype (microsoft now) and twitter and all the rest.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:30 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“yes it is the top 1% big money douchebags that run our world and make us think we need to fight against each other.. when they are all in this together... and here we sit divided which is what they want”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:30 PM

I think that's precisely the point, Rach.

k caslava · 11:30 PM

And that's really what is happening - all of the traffic on the internet is being captured, not individuals', and certainly not just some of it. The design of the internet makes it very simple to monitor everything, very difficult to monitor any one.

k caslava · 11:31 PM

And now computer processing speeds and storage capacities have caught up with the volume of internet traffic, and everything can be read, categorized, and filtered in real time

k caslava · 11:32 PM

We live in a strange moment, because perhaps at no other time has more of our collective lives been visible and accessible to those with money and processing power.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:32 PM

I don't even know why you'd WANT that info.

k caslava · 11:33 PM

Well, its not exciting, thats for sure.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:33 PM

LOTS of cat video watchers...

k caslava · 11:34 PM

But if you want to control people, if your end is power, then knowing who knows who, what they talk about, and where they go, what their work is, what they study... that becomes power-enhancing

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“They prey on the gullibility of humanity. omg. we're doomed.”

k caslava · 11:34 PM

The cat videos are the chaff. It gets tossed out easily enough. What the groups in power are interested in are the people talking about them, and more than that, talking about how to combat them.

k caslava · 11:35 PM

The plans of other governments, of corporations, of groups of activists, of anyone who is discontented.

k caslava · 11:35 PM

Think about it: if you had all the power, and your goal was to keep the power, then isn't your dream to know what everyone is saying to one another, what they're doing alone, where they go, etc?

k caslava · 11:35 PM

To know all that, and to manipulate it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:35 PM

The thing is, we need to talk about resistance. It's ironic that the internet is the biggest advance for activists and it's also our Achilles' heel.

k caslava · 11:35 PM

That's the end, that's what the information goes toward.

k caslava · 11:36 PM

I have a quote by Julian Assange. If anyone has not read his book "Cypherpunks" I recommend it. He also wrote a blog 20 years ago worth reading

k caslava · 11:37 PM

"The world is galloping, not sliding into a new international dystopia. This development has not been properly recognized outside of national security circles."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:37 PM

But the thing is, Kevin, we've been warned SO many times!

k caslava · 11:38 PM

"the internet, our greatest tool of emancipation, has been transformed into the most dangerous tool of totalitarianism we have ever seen. The internet is a threat to human civilization."

k caslava · 11:38 PM

We have been warned. But we have also been avalanched with warnings, with data, with more, more, more.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:38 PM

Science fiction writers, activists, everyone has been predicting this stuff with terrifying accuracy for the last century and it hasn't stopped anything!

k caslava · 11:38 PM

Chicken Little comes to mind.

k caslava · 11:39 PM

No, it hasn't. Fahrenheit 451, The Machine Stops, 1984, and all the rest were right on the money. And we have not changed course.

k caslava · 11:39 PM

But it isn't something that we just throw our hands up over. There's still ways out of this nonsense. The internet is still able to help us.

k caslava · 11:40 PM

Because it is incredibly useful. And there is no other communications medium capable of the same reach, without censorship.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:40 PM

It unsettles me every time something else happens, every time the screws tighten and language is lifted right out of Orwell's 1984 or Animal Farm.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:40 PM

I feel like a crazy person, because no one else seems to notice.

k caslava · 11:40 PM

So it is my position that we must use it, if we are to save civilization, and that means finding a way around the censors and watchers.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:41 PM

It's true.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:41 PM

This is the critical moment.

k caslava · 11:41 PM

Yeah, I don't get invited to too many parties.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:41 PM

The time for change is now, which means that violence and repression will escalate.

k caslava · 11:42 PM

It's always the critical moment. There is no other. There will never be a "too late" just as there was never a "too soon." History and life move in circles until we do what we are supposed to.

k caslava · 11:42 PM

Yes. I'm sure everyone here has seen the ratcheting violence and oppressing worldwide.

k caslava · 11:42 PM

And global surveillance has risen in lockstep with the rising oppression.

k caslava · 11:43 PM

Likely, we'll see a continuation for our entire lives, barring some sort of relief from population pressures and resource competition between states and corporate actors.

k caslava · 11:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“I think one of the reasons people didn't act is labels like conspiracy theorist, crazies, or sci-fi (not real) and people just thought "yeah right" more people wake up as the economy continues to tank”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:43 PM

But I feel like evolution happens not just as a biological mechanism. We're in a global cultural awakening.

k caslava · 11:43 PM

It does get harder to ignore Rachel, when one's belly is empty and the kids' too.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:44 PM

It's time for something to happen.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:44 PM

I think that's why power is nervous.

k caslava · 11:44 PM

Yeah, I don't believe it's a biological process we're looking at here. This is competing mindsets, coming to no point of agreement, and each side going to their strengths.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:45 PM

That's a good way to put it.

k caslava · 11:45 PM

Those who want to control and hold the lion's share are going to keep focusing on ways to control critical resources, and among them is the freedom to express one's ideas, either with legitimacy or at all.

k caslava · 11:46 PM

Looking abroad for a moment - In venezuela and in Russia we're seeing state media playing the private phone calls and showing private videos of political opponents in order to embarass and undemine them.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:46 PM

We see it here, too. Every election season.

k caslava · 11:46 PM

All taken by "normal" intrusive surveillance, no specific targetting needed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“I hate to seem selfish, but I have two little boys. Do you see this happening in our lifetime?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:47 PM

I have a 2-year-old...it's going down as we speak.

k caslava · 11:47 PM

Robin - this is now. This is all already here. Nothing I will speak of today is future tense.

k caslava · 11:47 PM

It's grim, but we must face the truth of our situation if we are going to fix anything.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:47 PM

So what can we do to fix it?

k caslava · 11:48 PM

Here's what I would say are my most salient points: surveillance is total and omnipresent. secondly, there is no way to use law to constrain organizations who by their nature work outside the law. Thirdly, we must rely on what is impossible,

k caslava · 11:48 PM

rather than what is illegal, to constrain those watching us and trying to control us.

k caslava · 11:48 PM

Does everyone know Edward Snowden?

k caslava · 11:49 PM

He's ex-NSA, worked for a contractor called Booz Allen, one of the largest companies on earth, and recently fled the USA and leaked secret documents to the Guardian and other papers. Primarily he leaked to Glenn Greenwald, American living in Brasil

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:50 PM

Yup.

k caslava · 11:50 PM

Edward Snowden said a few months ago that one of the few weapons we have left is good encryption. It is still unbreakable.

k caslava · 11:51 PM

Julian Assange, Jacob Applebaum, and several others who make their lives in the grey area outside the law have said similar things.

k caslava · 11:51 PM

Becky, you asked how we fix it.

k caslava · 11:51 PM

We have to encrypt everything, disguise it in unbreakable nonsense, readable only by the parties we choose to communicate with.

k caslava · 11:52 PM

That's the only way left to us. We turn the open internet into our mask, and tunnel beneath it, hiding messages in plain sight, using obscurity and complex math to make it work.

k caslava · 11:52 PM

And atop that, we radically change our internet habits.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“back to the underground railroad and revolution days with covert names and language.”

k caslava · 11:53 PM

The conversation has to change, away from "Dude cool photos of your kid we saw on facebook" and toward "here, people I actually know, you can see my photos. And everyone else gets gibberish."

k caslava · 11:54 PM

Yes. Time to move away from internet 2.0 or whatever you want to call the user-created, centralized internet.

k caslava · 11:54 PM

Toward pseudonymous, deniable, unreadable, untraceable communications.

k caslava · 11:54 PM

The good news is, as the surveillance gets easier, the hiding does too.

k caslava · 11:54 PM

Because 6 years ago, what I'm going to suggest to you all was so difficult I spent until now learning how to do it, and how it worked

k caslava · 11:55 PM

and now, you can download thousands of peoples hard work for free, and run it off of a USB stick.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“@Robin activists could potentially create a system for people who can't write code.. but you'd have to prove you weren't on the 'other" side which could get tricky.. definitely an age where we need computer programmers on our side”

k caslava · 11:56 PM

The answer to global surveillance is global encryption, running off of cleverly designed applications on very well protected USB stick computer system.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:56 PM

That's sort of (exactly) what K is proposing.

k caslava · 11:56 PM

One example is tails. https://tails.boum.org/

k caslava · 11:56 PM

it's designed for journalists, and well, for most anyone.

k caslava · 11:57 PM

It's where we are at in terms of the nexus between usability and security. It's preconfigured, and you'll notice immediately while slow, it doesn't really hinder you or require you to learn command line prompts.

k caslava · 11:58 PM

In a nutshell, Tails is designed to look exactly like every other tails machine out there, to share traffic in order to obscure its origins and destination, and to encrypt all of one's communications by default.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:58 PM

Nice.

k caslava · 11:58 PM

And still, for all of its ease, tails requires you to spend a few hundred hours learning the intricacies of Onion Routing, Off the Record messaging, and Public/Private key encryption.

k caslava · 11:59 PM

You must understand, the adversary here is so big, the resources arrayed against us are so mighty, that it may never get much easier than this. I hope it does, and there are some inroads being made, but currently, you must have an open heart and mind

k caslava · 12:00 AM

Here is an alternative to Tails: http://dee.su/liberte

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Anyus Grasso

“I appreciate the fact that these tools are made available to use, but the fact that they are necessary for the ordinary Internet user is both sad and terryfing.”

k caslava · 12:01 AM

Called Liberte Linux, it is also designed to be USB mounted operating system, extremely tiny, set up for maximum secrecy, and which erases all changes made upon being shut down, to the point of randomizing your machine's RAM

k caslava · 12:01 AM

Yes Anyus, I absolutely agree.

k caslava · 12:01 AM

This page shows a good overview of what the threats posed are: http://dee.su/liberte-motivation

k caslava · 12:02 AM

And one more link before I stop bombing these on you all: This is where a lot of very smart activists hang out to discuss technology and how to use it to help people: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Peg Paluch

“Genicide, homicide,, starvation, and the USA doesn't take care of our own.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:03 AM

Well, Peg, if you think of the US Government as essentially a psycopath, it doesn't seem so personal.

k caslava · 12:03 AM

Remember - this is not only the USA. The USA is best positioned to do it, but anyone with $10,000,000 can do this to a country of about 10 million.

k caslava · 12:04 AM

Hence why we see Bahrain, Iran, and China doing exactly the same thing.

k caslava · 12:04 AM

This is a natural course for those who value power.

k caslava · 12:05 AM

I want to encourage people to consider what Becky is saying here: to view governments as essentially psychopathic creates a more realistic relationship between them and us.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“which they are Rebecca as we have discussed. Douchebags AND Psychopaths... yep that's who controls us *awesome&”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“We're so past the USA caring. It's a sad world, out there, Peg.”

k caslava · 12:06 AM

So then, the natural step from realizing that we have a problem is to talk about, and try to reach upon a solution.

k caslava · 12:06 AM

And that is where these sorts of programs interpose themselves. Keeping people quiet, making sure they don't speak together, and intimidating them not to speak honestly.

k caslava · 12:06 AM

I see two paths before us, two paths toward a better world.

k caslava · 12:07 AM

And we will have to take both somewhat, some of us down one, some down the other.

k caslava · 12:07 AM

The first path is secrecy

k caslava · 12:07 AM

Hiding our words, speaking in coded messages across deniable gulfs of 0s and 1s.

k caslava · 12:07 AM

The second path is to lose our fear.

k caslava · 12:08 AM

To come forward publicly and state that we know what these people are doing, and we refuse to participate.

k caslava · 12:08 AM

There is no excuse to have a facebook anymore. It is the perfect surveillance tool. The Stasi could never conceive an engine of mass surveilance and behavioural manipulation

k caslava · 12:09 AM

It's convenience overlaying a network that knows your facial structure, waking hours, location, job, and most of all your relationships.

k caslava · 12:09 AM

Your relationships are, at the most basic level, who you are.

k caslava · 12:09 AM

Without others, we don't exist, not in the sense of social human animals.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:10 AM

That's all so true, but isn't that the first best reason to keep using Facebook, to say, hey, I am here and you can't so this?

k caslava · 12:10 AM

I spent a lot of time hiding in the shadows, afraid to make splashes on the internet. It was impossible to be a writer and online activist again, knowing that everything I did was being used against me in the court of outside the law

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:10 AM

To say, Hey - I see this! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/02/miranda-rights-trimmed-do_n_667023.html

k caslava · 12:11 AM

Perhaps. But it would probably be better to do something far more radical. And the satisfaction gained by posting that link on facebook keeps millions from taking no further action.

k caslava · 12:11 AM

"Yeah, I like that." We click instead of going outside and smashing a CCTV camera.

k caslava · 12:11 AM

Not that random property damage with fix things either.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:12 AM

I understand. I do. I am paranoid as hell. But I don't know how else to stay informed and how to reach other people.

k caslava · 12:12 AM

But facebook is a more perfect opiate than religion.

k caslava · 12:12 AM

I have decided upon writing letters, and speaking in person.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:12 AM

Writing letter to friends, or to your Congressmen? Because one is effective and the other is essentially worthless.

k caslava · 12:13 AM

In much the same way that writing your congressman is more effective than emailing, writing your friends is much more effective than facebooking them. And an envelope fits a tiny micro SD card of encrypted secrets very easily.

k caslava · 12:13 AM

Anything in the physical world is more secure than the digital one. You're better off spraypainting your private details on a billboard than posting them to a website, just in terms of who gets to see it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:13 AM

But it gets scanned and recorded, too. All your letters and packages are digitally recorded by the USPS.

k caslava · 12:13 AM

Yes, their outsides do.

k caslava · 12:14 AM

Which is a great reason to start pre-printing your labels and sending from false, generic names.

k caslava · 12:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Anyus Grasso

“How great would it be if all these big social media companies would take a step and stand on the right side of the issue... they could provide the perfect enviroment for people to organize, and yes, share the ocasional cat video if they want.”

k caslava · 12:14 AM

I agree with this sentiment. There are some things they can do. But not under the current models

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:15 AM

LOL, to K and Anyus.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:15 AM

The hardest part for me is my own stubbornness. I don't WANT to lie, abscond, obfuscate. I just want to be straightforward and live my life.

k caslava · 12:15 AM

There is no way to build a secure facebook, or a secure gmail. Email and facebook are centralized services. As long as their is a central server, the data can be collected. There are some intersting new exceptions, like Silent Circle

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:15 AM

I have trouble bending, thinking that I need to bend.

k caslava · 12:16 AM

http://www.silentcircle.de/silent-circle.html

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:16 AM

I feel as if I'm being dishonest, and I am not a dishonest person, even to my own detriment.

k caslava · 12:16 AM

Yes, Becky, that is a hell of a thing.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Anyus Grasso

“Yes, I get what you are saying. But I also love being able to meet people from around the world wit whom I share interests and ideas, I love that about it. I wouldn't have meet these people any other way.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:16 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Bakay

“Like, rename ourselves?”

k caslava · 12:16 AM

I've tried always to be truthful in my life, and it has been a lot of work in lying, even if by lying all I mean is hiding the contents and recipients of your messages

k caslava · 12:17 AM

Robin - I was once impelled to send some sensitive objects across the USA, because I didn't want them on me. I sent them from an imaginary person, at a legitimate address, to myself across the nation.

k caslava · 12:18 AM

It's not like that makes things foolproof, but it certainly helps to muddy the waters.

k caslava · 12:19 AM

Anyus - what you are saying is one of the reasons why I'm speaking publically about this

k caslava · 12:19 AM

We need everyone to do it, not just one or a dozen folks.

k caslava · 12:19 AM

We need to change the culture of the internet. Because right now, it is headed off a cliff.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:19 AM

★ Spotlighted from Peg Paluch

“I have paid out more to lawyers than I wish to remember. Adoptees can not get original birth certificates, thus violating the freedom of information act.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:19 AM

Peg, that's terrible!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:20 AM

It certainly is! Every time we kill SOPA, it comes back to life. It will only take a few more times, or a bill rider, for people to get so tired of it they stop paying attention.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:20 AM

I see what they're doing!

k caslava · 12:20 AM

Wow Peg, you might want to look the few nations that offer citizenship for sale, but otherwise I don't know what to suggest to you. Sneaking a border is an option, but neither Canada nor Mexico is a very hospitable place to be doing that sort of thin

k caslava · 12:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachel McDonnell

“so you just "borrowed" someone else's address on the envelope to send it?”

k caslava · 12:21 AM

Rachel - exactly. Some fake name, some other address. And with myself (or at least, the name I was using at the time) as the recipient.

k caslava · 12:21 AM

Remember, the federal budget can't pay for a good post office, so security is very lax.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:22 AM

k caslava · 12:23 AM

Also, remember that the digital and analog worlds scale differently

k caslava · 12:23 AM

reality scales linearly, while digital things scale exponentially. A system that tracks a million people is not so different from 7 billion people online

k caslava · 12:23 AM

but in the real world, that represents hundreds of millions of new staff, new hands, etc.

k caslava · 12:24 AM

I would say, as basic policy, mail things that you want to be kept safe, on encrypted usb sticks, and send the password via some secured communication channel, like a VOIP program that isn't skype.

k caslava · 12:25 AM

And for your internet needs, the programs that you should look into are first TOR http://torproject.us/ and second Tails https://tails.boum.org/

k caslava · 12:26 AM

The important thing here is recognize the problem, and to see that the solution boils down to a shift of paradigm. There is no good reason the internet works as it does.

k caslava · 12:27 AM

Decentralization would make it 1) nearly free, as in beer 2) nearly free, as in speech, and 3) impossible to censor. We would have to adjust, but think of adjusting to the current paradigm. Do you remember it?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:27 AM

Just as there's no good reason that society works as it does - it's a set of rules we scrabbled together as we developed.

k caslava · 12:27 AM

Was it some grand struggle, or the adoption of new tools as they proved better than what you were using before?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:27 AM

Exactly.

k caslava · 12:28 AM

becky - Yes quite that. We are quick to assign reason to things, because our minds hunger for it.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:28 AM

We can do better, we can change to suit our needs, so why don't we?

k caslava · 12:28 AM

I spoke earlier today with the Dalai lama

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:28 AM

For real

k caslava · 12:28 AM

He was asked "how do I build an engine in me, to do good work in spite of my fear?"

k caslava · 12:28 AM

Yes, for real :)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:29 AM

(That was supposed to have a period...)

k caslava · 12:29 AM

And his answer was great. He said you must do something. You must act. Compassion implies action. You cannot be compassionate and do nothing.

k caslava · 12:29 AM

We do not act out of fear. We act out of love. And as some here have mentioned, Anyus coming to mind, we do activism because we love it. We love people, so we talk to them.

k caslava · 12:30 AM

We do not have to leap off the ship, and abandon the internet.

k caslava · 12:30 AM

But we need to see the dangers clearly, and we need to urge as many as possible that a new ship, one controlled and manned by us, is the only way to weather the storm

k caslava · 12:30 AM

And with that, I know Becky has a baby to care for.

k caslava · 12:30 AM

And I am blathering.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:31 AM

Those are pretty hopeful words, there, K.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:31 AM

I appreciate that.

k caslava · 12:31 AM

Pandora kept hope for us. I know there are many, from Derrick Jensen to a whole host of great activists, who believe acting without hope is both desirable and more effective, I disagree.

k caslava · 12:32 AM

My heart, my soul, and god demand hope.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:32 AM

Indeed.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:32 AM

How the hell else do you get up in the morning? I mean, really.

k caslava · 12:33 AM

Cocaine.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:33 AM

Nah. I'm still breastfeeding.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:33 AM

Anyway, thank you all for being here.

k caslava · 12:33 AM

Indeed. I'm thankful to any and all who stick around for topics like this.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:33 AM

The comments were wonderful. Now, go encrypt your shit! Now!

k caslava · 12:33 AM

Because the gray, grittiness of it deters a whole lot of participation.

k caslava · 12:34 AM

So please, take a look at what I've linked, and don't worry if you don't understand how encryption works. Hardly a few thousand people do. Just learn how to use it, and well.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:34 AM

And, you can go listen to this and feel better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3KXQiMsh2Q

k caslava · 12:34 AM

Especially the bit about how to choose your pass phrases. One last link:

k caslava · 12:34 AM

http://world.std.com/~reinhold/diceware.html

k caslava · 12:35 AM

haha

k caslava · 12:35 AM

yes, music

k caslava · 12:35 AM

laughter

k caslava · 12:35 AM

babies

k caslava · 12:35 AM

Remember why we fight. For if a society does not provide music and love and laughter, what good is it? These things are not the extras, the scraps supported by politics and economy.

k caslava · 12:36 AM

Politics and economy are tolerable evils only when they enable us to have art, music, love, and all the rest. And babies.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:36 AM

Wise words.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:36 AM

Take it easy, all. Thanks for being here.

k caslava · 12:36 AM

If anyone has any questions, I'll stick around a few minutes and answer

k caslava · 12:36 AM

goodnight becky

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:36 AM

See you around, K. :) Bee good!

k caslava · 12:37 AM

Tenga buenas suenos

k caslava · 12:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“QUESTION:so how is the idea of teaching how to be elusive and still connected”

k caslava · 12:39 AM

Seth - can you repeat that? I'm not sure I understand

k caslava · 12:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“How do you feel about teaching that, i ask”

k caslava · 12:40 AM

Oh, I understand. I felt reluctant for a long time.

k caslava · 12:40 AM

Everyone who gets into this arena gets targetted.

k caslava · 12:40 AM

I am still keeping a relatively low profile

k caslava · 12:40 AM

But I'm diversifying my interests

k caslava · 12:41 AM

Citizenship in one country, residence in another, business based in a third.

k caslava · 12:41 AM

The idea is to keep oneself out of the complete grasp of any one national entity, or corporate for that matter. And I suppose it helps to be low maintenance.

k caslava · 12:42 AM

Mostly, I want to teach people how to teach themselves. A teacher is not judged based on how many students they have, but how many knowledgable people they enable to do good things.

k caslava · 12:42 AM

But I'm thinking of doing courses, online or otherwise.

k caslava · 12:42 AM

Because the learning curve on this is steeper than I'd like, and steeper than I expect people to take, unless they're driven as I was.

k caslava · 12:43 AM

Right, so does anyone mind if I scoot out of here?

k caslava · 12:43 AM

It's about bedtime, plus a bit.

k caslava · 12:44 AM

Alright, goodnight everyone. Thank you again for coming by.

k caslava · 1:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Westbrook Toker

“well, let us know when they start, i belive the sooner the better to learn this stuff.”

k caslava · 1:01 AM

Sure thing seth.

k caslava · 1:01 AM

I'll pass it along the improper channels

Forum · 146

Forum· 146 comments

67 visitors

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:00 PM

Hello!

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:00 PM

Are we being recorded?

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:08 PM

and this was years ago imagine what they find and how fast now! that is ridiculous!

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:09 PM

Privacy at a price only the 1% can afford.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:09 PM★ Spotlighted

so why did they show you this data? to scare you? or just as evidence of why you were being fired?

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:11 PM

And -- it's the freaking PEACE CORPS. I expected more from them. DId you?

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:11 PM

and this is the PEACE corp? what the hell, that is awful!

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:11 PM

@Robin - great minds ;) lol

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:12 PM

McCarthyism.

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:12 PM

What were you writing?

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:13 PM

I feel like I'm talking to a movie.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:13 PM

I think we should be able to spy on them just as much as they do on us! I know they have far more seedy lives that most of us!

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:13 PM

Rachel :)

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:15 PM

Did you realize how political it became precisely when it was happening?

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:15 PM

so you were in the corp. the same time Rebecca? What did they say to the volunteers about why he left? just curious what you were told on the opposite end

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:18 PM

they have organizations like copwatch and the like that are trying to educate people on the fact it is legal to follow and watch the cops which I think is important! :)

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:18 PM

Holy crap.

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:18 PM

Holy holy crap.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:18 PM

damn NSA

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:19 PM

we are being psychologically and behaviorally being manipulated too.. they can and do use this data to target the ads you see online etc.. it pisses me off more than scare me

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:21 PM★ Spotlighted

It seems to me that the collapse happened officially on 9/11.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:22 PM

9/11 was a catalyst to advance this global police state.. and it worked. Fear controls people. And it is sick and wrong that we probably were involved in that event one way or another (our gov.)

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:22 PM

haha.. probably not a coincidence.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:23 PM

wave to the NSA everyone! or flip them off... your call

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:23 PM★ Spotlighted

I guess the question is in this world of surveillance is what is America hiding?

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:24 PM

Are you and your various computers like "Sister Wives"?

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:26 PM

My 9/11 point was really when I became aware of the facade.

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:27 PM

How sad that answer makes me.

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:29 PM

Do you think Putin is advancing toward the empire's center?

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:29 PM★ Spotlighted

yes it is the top 1% big money douchebags that run our world and make us think we need to fight against each other.. when they are all in this together... and here we sit divided which is what they want

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:30 PM

didn't I just hear something about our data being sold to Israel?

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:30 PM

There's buzz. Apple iPhone. Fingerprint. That'll be shared, yes?

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:32 PM★ Spotlighted

They prey on the gullibility of humanity. omg. we're doomed.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:32 PM

yes because if we all united there is no way they could stop us so they create fear in people whether events like 9-11, bombings, or simply like what they did to you K make an example out of a few so the many few they can't "risk" standing up

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:33 PM

they can use it for anything and everything Rebecca, sell it to advertisers, corporations who want dirt on protesters, scary you into being silent etc..

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:33 PM

information is the new money making business

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:35 PM

to keep their power and money. disgusting. what can we do to safeguard ourselves as much as possible? aside from abandoning technology all together.. which is tempting

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:36 PM

Apocalyptic power?

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:37 PM

@Robin I think all of us enslaved in jobs for no money, we will end up working for survival from the power elite, since they will take all the money.. they aren't putting it back into our economies so eventually they will tell us we can live and eat

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:37 PM

if we work for them and do what they say

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:40 PM

@Rachel Do we know when this is gonna happen? Cuz I've got a couple a calls to make.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:41 PM

@Robin I don't know but I am going to fight to the end on this one! soon that's for sure... make your calls now

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:41 PM

OH THANK HEAVENS!!

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:42 PM★ Spotlighted

I think one of the reasons people didn't act is labels like conspiracy theorist, crazies, or sci-fi (not real) and people just thought "yeah right" more people wake up as the economy continues to tank

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:43 PM

I love that there is never "too late" Either way you have to try right? :)

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:44 PM

there's only so much "blaming the victim" people can do before they stop and think, wait a minute why the fuck are those rich corporate d-bag's not helping us?!?

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:46 PM

like making protesting illegal?

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:46 PM★ Spotlighted

I hate to seem selfish, but I have two little boys. Do you see this happening in our lifetime?

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:47 PM

I hope not Robin, I am scare to have kids in this world and I have two nephews I adore to death! I don't want them to live in such a world which is why I will fight when and where I can against this bs

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:47 PM

and teach them to stand up for humanity and what's right over all else <3

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:47 PM

I know. I'm trying to accept. Both countries would have welcomed Snowden.

Anyus GrassoSep 14, 2013, 11:47 PM

@Rachel, I've been to the states a few times. And I've heard people talk in ways that I think answer your question. People really need to start changing the way they things... they don't ask 'why aren't they helping us?' (...)

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:48 PM

exactly anyus.. but the worse it gets.. eventually they will HAVE to ask that question. I agree more people need to. which is why I bring it up everytime someone blames the victim get that info out there

Anyus GrassoSep 14, 2013, 11:48 PM

(...) they think 'i can help myself, you help yourself'. There goes the definition of the word 'help'. I've been mostly in the south, and I hear this a lot. This needs to change in order to stand up to these kind of abuse.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:49 PM

oh yeah I agree anyus.. people need to get over the "us vs. them" mentality which is again how the powerful control us.. they put that mentality in our heads

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:50 PM

The best and brightest will land on either side of the new world.

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:50 PM

Yup

Anyus GrassoSep 14, 2013, 11:50 PM

Yeah, they really need to. I'm just afraid they'll wait until they find themselves in a desperate situation... because even if they think their point of view is selfish, I'd hate seeing more people struggling to get by.

Anyus GrassoSep 14, 2013, 11:51 PM

I think* not 'they'. I dont think they think they are selfish lol, that would be a nice realization tho.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:51 PM

I agree Anyus, that's why I think discussing these things with people is so important don't attack them on it. but get them to see it and understand the danger in staying divided and that we are all human beings

Anyus GrassoSep 14, 2013, 11:52 PM

Preach it sister. I wish everyone would just stop for ONE second and really think.

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:52 PM

So essentially, everyone will need to know how to write code?!

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:52 PM★ Spotlighted

back to the underground railroad and revolution days with covert names and language.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:53 PM

I agree Anyus.. me too :/

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:55 PM★ Spotlighted

@Robin activists could potentially create a system for people who can't write code.. but you'd have to prove you weren't on the 'other" side which could get tricky.. definitely an age where we need computer programmers on our side

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:55 PM

how do you find that info tho?

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:55 PM

(maybe we can't talk about it on here tho)

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:56 PM

oops.

Peg PaluchSep 14, 2013, 11:56 PM

I've spent a little more time here on earth than most of the listeners. There has always been a "Police State" in every country. If there wasn't there would be no rule to follow. None the less, Big Brother has been here since the *60s what with th

Peg PaluchSep 14, 2013, 11:56 PM

the sexual revolution, drugs, sex, rock and roll.

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:57 PM

yeah those damn hippies were *so* dangerous lol.. what's dangerous to the power elite is the love over profit mentality

Rachel McDonnellSep 14, 2013, 11:58 PM

I guess my SPSS coding classes will help me then lol. I know HTML code but not computer code. What about phones? better to get pre-paid?

Peg PaluchSep 14, 2013, 11:59 PM

This being said, look at the "peaceful demonstrations" where people are killed; i.e. Kent State. For all that it's worth, the civil rights movement was overshadowed, not only by the law, but by the clan and Purists.

Robin BakaySep 14, 2013, 11:59 PM

Just what moms of 2 yr olds want to do.

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:00 AM

Do you see Steve Jobs as evil?

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:00 AM

We need a new human/civil rights movement in this country and globally

Anyus GrassoSep 15, 2013, 12:00 AM★ Spotlighted

I appreciate the fact that these tools are made available to use, but the fact that they are necessary for the ordinary Internet user is both sad and terryfing.

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:00 AM

Eddie Amien ... the Last King of Scotland, Hitler, Marx, Lennon ... all of these were police states. The USA has become the largest, we police the world.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:01 AM

thank you for these links K! I have been wanting to look into this more.. hard to know where to go and who to trust (that's the world we live in now all because of fucking money agh! pisses me off!)

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:01 AM★ Spotlighted

Genicide, homicide,, starvation, and the USA doesn't take care of our own.

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:02 AM★ Spotlighted

We're so past the USA caring. It's a sad world, out there, Peg.

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:03 AM

Rebecca. Spit my water.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:04 AM★ Spotlighted

which they are Rebecca as we have discussed. Douchebags AND Psychopaths... yep that's who controls us *awesome&

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:05 AM★ Spotlighted

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:06 AM

I've got a shit-load of mac & cheese!!

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:07 AM

not kraft man n cheese I hope? GMO's man! But that is another way they control us through food.. :/

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:08 AM

Like, now? Cuz I'm already kinda in for the night.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:08 AM

I am already on board for the second option.. but I will try to learn the code too.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:09 AM

@Robin lol! we just need to organize better and get more people to see the reality.. although I'd hope if they said we are doing this now we would all jump on board! :)

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:10 AM

Before my adoption my name was Robin, and Robin B., I agree with you whole heartedly. My voting rights have been suspended 'cause I can't produce a birth certificate. Without a birth cert. I can't get a pass port. I might as well bend over and let

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:11 AM

Rachell! I can't figure out how to LOL with it showing up on the Tawk!

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:11 AM

them push to pole in as well.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:11 AM

yes I have met many activistic friends on FB.. especially through the global friend bomb where they try to overcome Fbs ridiculous rules of friending people you don't know and to get others information like Rebecca says

Anyus GrassoSep 15, 2013, 12:11 AM★ Spotlighted

How great would it be if all these big social media companies would take a step and stand on the right side of the issue... they could provide the perfect enviroment for people to organize, and yes, share the ocasional cat video if they want.

Anyus GrassoSep 15, 2013, 12:12 AM

Social media is great to meet people and organize, it's sad that it's being used against us.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:13 AM

I agree Anyus.. I do hate Facebook tho the only reason I am on it more now is because I am getting more information through my activist friends

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:13 AM

There's no money in freedom. That's why the big companies don't do it.

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:14 AM★ Spotlighted

Like, rename ourselves?

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:14 AM

Try to get a soup company to donate soup to Somalia. Ain't gonna happen if there's no big tax break.

Anyus GrassoSep 15, 2013, 12:15 AM★ Spotlighted

Yes, I get what you are saying. But I also love being able to meet people from around the world wit whom I share interests and ideas, I love that about it. I wouldn't have meet these people any other way.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:15 AM

I agree Anyus especially since I have made good friends with people all across the country and the globe :/

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:15 AM

This is really blowing my my mind. I'm a teensy bit older than y'all.

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:16 AM

So do I but I can't get off this rock without a pass port.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:17 AM

I agree Rebecca! I see it as a "F" you to those in charge too when I post important things and discuss important things with people who normally aren't exposed to all of this information because of the mainstream media etc..

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:18 AM

Are you safe to return to the US?

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:18 AM★ Spotlighted

so you just "borrowed" someone else's address on the envelope to send it?

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:18 AM★ Spotlighted

I have paid out more to lawyers than I wish to remember. Adoptees can not get original birth certificates, thus violating the freedom of information act.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:19 AM

@peg I think the freedom of information act is only for those in control.. we don't get those "Freedom's" that's too dangerous

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:21 AM

maybe there could be a free convention of sorts that could have people meet up and be taught to code and do these things that we need to do? I don't see people individually having the time or resources to be able to pull off all this entails alone

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:21 AM

Well, since I was kidnapped and black marketed,, I have to agree with you there. I'm just sad my identity was taken away.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:21 AM

(...) at least not the majority of people

Robin BakaySep 15, 2013, 12:22 AM

Okay, then! Good luck to you.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:22 AM

@Peg that is just SO AWFUL! :(

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:22 AM

one upside to defunding and budget cuts.. we the people have a fighting chance by lax security in other areas aside from the internet.

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:22 AM

No consent papers.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:25 AM

it's harder to account for us when we are doing things physically vs. online. I mean really they are putting all their effort into online communication and phones (which are online also now) I see your point... physical communication is important

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:26 AM

(...) just make sure your phone is turned off when you are out and about

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:29 AM

say fire all the senators and congressmen, give them all frontal lobotomys and send them back to their old neighborhoods to live out their lives with out benefits.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:29 AM

don't forget the big bank CEOs and execs

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:30 AM

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:30 AM

(ah who am I kidding? the big banks and the gov. have already merged.. same thing)

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:32 AM

Yes, but we gave them more to bail them out ... the tax payers who don't listen or think don't realize that we bailed them so they can do it again.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:33 AM

@Peg exactly but more people are waking up about that look at all the amazing off shoot organizations that came out of Occupy Wallstreet.. there is hope and more and more people are becoming aware

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:33 AM

yes we need to hope and believe that we can fix things.. but like you said Action is needed. thanks for all the information K! Great Tawk Rebecca and K! P:)

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:34 AM

(I need to learn how first Rebecca lol)

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:35 AM

As you know, Pandora's box had all the sins of the world locked in it. Someone opened it and the sins ran rampant. Hope was at the very bottom

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:36 AM

wasup Tim? Kevin?

Peg PaluchSep 15, 2013, 12:36 AM

They rellocked it before hope could come out.

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:36 AM

thanks again and great words to end with <3

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:38 AM★ Spotlighted

QUESTION:so how is the idea of teaching how to be elusive and still connected

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:38 AM★ Spotlighted

How do you feel about teaching that, i ask

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:39 AM

what options do we have to stay connected and safe, are there any?

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:40 AM

i see...

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:40 AM

as you should

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:41 AM

what about open scource incription. at the moment i belive its the only type we can rely on, opinion?

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:42 AM

i can see the apeal with that

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:43 AM

glad to know people like you are out there and doing these things.. and educating people when you can

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:43 AM

*nod*

Rachel McDonnellSep 15, 2013, 12:43 AM

no thanks for talking with us.. have a great night

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:44 AM★ Spotlighted

well, let us know when they start, i belive the sooner the better to learn this stuff.

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:44 AM

i wil be your guinea pig!

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:44 AM

later dude

Seth Westbrook TokerSep 15, 2013, 12:44 AM

and everyone else, thanks for coming

Mark DuweSep 15, 2013, 11:10 AM

Hi, people.

Paul MillerSep 15, 2013, 4:46 PM

What information were you communicating that caused the peace corp grief. We're you breaking rules you had agreed to upon joining

Paul MillerSep 15, 2013, 4:48 PM

Ben Franklin quoted that "Having a free society requires risk". Therefore minimizing risk, minimizes freedom. We as a society do not have the stomach to accept a lot of risk.