Rebecca Westbrook Toker

Host

Tuesday Night Tawk: Role-Play

Mar 5, 2014·80 visitors

Jordan Birnbaum

Cohost

Stage· 354 messages

Mar 5, 2014

Jordan Birnbaum and I think it's high time we had a Tawk about gender roles. This could get interesting.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“I am so here for this. I would like to mention a few philosophers that have talked about this. Simone de beauvoir, Mary wollstonecraft and Julia kristeva.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 11:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“Oh, and helene cixous. If anyone can think of any other women philosophers, plz list their names for me to research.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

good evening, everyone!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Hey, guys and gals!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

So nice to see you all!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Jordan, how are you?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“hello”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“hello Rebecca and Jordan”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“Good evening!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

why do you have to focus on gender, Becca? Why can't we all just be "people?"

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“And hermaphrodites.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

Rosner, you are the man for the job! I was going to refer Kelly to you, but you're already taking care of it. ;)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

So we have a pretty significant subject tonight, and particularly of the moment

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

We could all be just people, but...my lady parts...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“What job?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

ah yes, one of the problems of gender equality is that we are NOT the same in every way...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Hahah, Rick. Kelly asked for more female philosophers. You Put down hermaphrodites. It was a joke.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

lol

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

i just got it

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

OK - so I have a fun idea on where to begin

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

Sometimes I'm too dry. It gets lost.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

Okay, JB. Lay it on me!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

I once heard someone describe a theory on NPR that went like this

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“But i do believe mind has no gender.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i like to think you're right about that kelly”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

ps - I think I agree with that too.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:03 AM

but back to the NPR thing

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

this person said that in the time we were hunter gatherers, we formed our communication patterns

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

men, on the hunt, needed to remain silent so as not to scare the animals.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:04 AM

women, out to gather, had to be loud specifically so they WOULD scare the animals.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Mike Dwornik

“Gender roles constantly evolve. ”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

no doubt!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

★ Spotlighted from Wayne Delorme

“I think the roles are evolving closer together and that's a good thing.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:05 AM

it seems like humanity is evolving away from imposing expectations on children.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:05 AM

I would agree with that part, JB.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

But maybe not the rest of it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:06 AM

and that can only be healthy and positive and good

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

I'm surprised, but i don't agree that the mind has no gender.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

I think we are VERY hormone-determined creatures.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:06 AM

A testosterone-dominant being operates differently than an estrogen-dominant being.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:07 AM

yes - but this gets to a nuanced discussion of where we end and our reaction to brain chemicals begin...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

True, there are, will be, and can be fluctuations, but men and women are very profoundly different.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:07 AM

Also from NPR:http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/220/testosterone

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

That discussion can be found above. :D

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

So we can talk about other things. LOL

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:08 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“A college professor once told me that psychologists put a group of men in one room, and told them to wait before doing a task, and the men were silent. They did the same thing with a group of women, and the women talked with each other.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

That's interesting, Ross!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:08 AM

Dude, brain scans have shown that wwomen's emotional centers are FAR more active than men's.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:08 AM

So, let's get to the complexity of the matter. Can we be different without having a power dynamic associated with the differences?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

THAT is what we need to strive for!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:09 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“We do not treat our mothers the same as we do our fathers do we?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

See, because what feminism seems to have accomplished in the last century

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:09 AM

is to have made it OKAY for women to act just like men.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

Women are equal as long as they pretend to have the same needs and responses.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from Wayne Delorme

“why is it that most fathers prefer the daughters and most moms prefer the sons?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

Which is bullshit.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

wayne, freud would say unconscious sexual desire.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

EW!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

That's gross and weird!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

It's freud, man.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

Freud was wrong.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:10 AM

Just quoting the man...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:10 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“What about gay couples then?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

OK - sorry for grossing you out with the father of modern psychology...but back to iour point

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

I think they love their kids, like all parents do. ;D

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“It's dangerous to ignore Freud just because we don't like an idea . . .”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:11 AM

Oh, I just have this Freud aversion. I mean, he had so many tics he could have been a clock!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:11 AM

I'm with you, Rosner

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

BUT, back on point...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Or as they called him in Wayne's World: Freud Dude”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

No, I recognize what Freud did in terms of opening up the field of psychology, but he did a lot of damage, too.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

that's Bill & Ted's, Seth

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“ok out of 115 philosophers, 5 or women. and most philosophies that our world runs on were writin by men.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:12 AM

So it seems that as is our tendency to do as humanjs, we oversimplified women's equality

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

Most of everything ever, including laws, was written by men.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

yes, i would agree with that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:13 AM

we recognized that the standards for treating women were unconscionable - but our solution for it was to try to turn women into men

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:13 AM

the much harder thing to do, then, is understand more deeply what the essence of a man, a woman, a human IS, and make THAT okay.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

and also allow "masculine" and "feminine" qualities to exist in all of us

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:14 AM

Word.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:14 AM

I like a good ass-kicking, and I like a good cry.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

The rejection of the feminine in the masculine is just as damaging. Yowza!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:15 AM

Yeah, right?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“they are women and we must recognize that. they have amazing gifts and we should be looking at that.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

for some context - I was born in 1971

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

my mom was a fierce Jewish women's libber

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:15 AM

so I have been around the movement my entire life

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

I was born in 1983. In North Texas. To a misogynist. I was his favorite son.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

i spent most of my life in rejection of the feminine.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

heavy

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

yeah, dude.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:16 AM

But I dig being a woman now. lady Miracle Parts and all. :)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:16 AM

but from my perspective, it was so foreign to me that women could even be treated with a double standard, I almost didn't believe it was true

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“it makes me sad that my sweet, loving grandson "needs to be tougher" says his mom.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

yeah - the world sucks

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

It is true. And as carppy as North Texas/Okalhoma still are, let me tell you, Honduras was WORSE.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

Wowee, that was a wakeup call!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:17 AM

and then when I learned history, I was shocked.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:17 AM

I went to save the world and came back an angry man-hater. LOL

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

Yeah...that's a hard one.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

don't hate men. hate people.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

And sometimes hilarious!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

Friends of mine found an old book from ca 1910 that explained the virtues of a lady

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Wayne Delorme

“I hate the culture, not the people”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:18 AM

but it was a "medical" text.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:18 AM

better said, Wayne

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

I remember most clearly that it said, "The worth of a woman can be measured in the length and luxuriance of her pubic hair.'

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

ROFL.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

lol

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

For the record, i do not hate men.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:19 AM

I have come back to center.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:19 AM

If anyone ever saw "You Don't Mess With The Zohan," you're laughing about luscious pubic hair.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“LOL rebecca, you sure you don't think like a man :).”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“That's hilarious.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“OMG rebecca.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:20 AM

anyway - as a mother, Becca - how do you think about gender roles in raising your son?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“ohh good question.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

1.) Keep him away from my father.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

thanks kelly!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

2.) Just let him BE.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

that sounds like a smart strategy regardless of gender

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:21 AM

It's weird and annoying when people try to impose sexual notions on small children.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

if he wanted to wear a dress to Kindergarten?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“yep yep, I am trying to help someone deal with a really smart kid that does not want to be a school cuz he wants to learn his own things.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

I'm probably going to homeschool, so it would be no big deal. :P

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

I empathize, but socialization is important

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:22 AM

wow - my comment was intended for Kelly, but works for Becca!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:22 AM

Seriously, though, when you get kids out of the regular systems - away from TV, away from public school, people are more chill with letting kids be kids.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

Blah, blah, the socialization argument. Homeschool isn't what you think.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

how will you foster his socialization with other kids?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“try kidzucate. its kids being the teachers.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“its very new I just found out about it. as I said I was trying to help someone with the school issues.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:23 AM

homeschool is usually a co-op, so it's like school, but run mostly by moms who are ex-teachers. :D

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:24 AM

children certainly see things more honestly than adults....

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

And, honestly, if the best answer you have for socialization is the public school system, no thanks.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:24 AM

Becca - that sounds more like a communal education, which sounds GREAT!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

it's a damaging bubble environment that brings out the worst in kids and not the best.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:24 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“we are born artist, it slowly gets trianed out of us -- pablo picaso”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

No - I don't oppose home schooling in theory - I just think it has to be accompanied with aggressive socialization time

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

No.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“Just like twitter.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Kids grow, just like everyone else.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

"Aggressive socialization" is forced and strange.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:25 AM

I meant aggressive in terms of "every day" -

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:25 AM

Authentic exchanges with people- including adults - goes a helluva lot farther in helping the kid be well-adjusted.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

not letting it slide

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

Me, either.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

Kids need real exchanges.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

With adults.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

And peers.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

And all ages of people.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:26 AM

Not just their age-group and the ringleader.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:26 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“Jaque fresco has the right idea, kids have a place to go and learn whatever they want to learn about, amazing stuff too look it up.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

School is way weirder than world education, which is actually what I espouse, i just call it homeschooling because people usually think they understand that and let it go.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:27 AM

Unschooling and World Schooling. Look those up. you'll be bummed no one did that for you.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“you want to see what a kid who educates himself can do. watch this kid logan leplante, amazing.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11u3vtcpaY”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

so how do you want to see gender roles evolve?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:28 AM

are we headed in the right direction?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:28 AM

before we can get to people just being people - which is the ideal and the goal,

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“i have told my 7 yr old grandson... the whole world is there for us to learn about. he's good at asking questions.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

We have to begin to understand more of what we really are and what motivates up, and let that be okay.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:29 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“I wanbt to see us as equals but we must realize we are different. Acceptance of differences is important.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:29 AM

modern feminism (Thank you for the right to vote and have a job!) is kind of off-track.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

It punishes overt manliness AND overt femininity.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

How do you describe overt manliness?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“oh, yes it does”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:30 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“There are four things that motivate people. Competition, sincerity, responsibility, and fun.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:30 AM

Oh, like my husband out in the yard with his shirt off chopping wood.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

Or men getting together and hanging out and drinking beer and shooting the shit and working on a problem together.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

Ross - interesting to compare and contrast men and women from those four perspectives

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

That should be celebrated as necessary activity,

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:31 AM

poker night?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

necessary for community and gender -dentity

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:31 AM

Sure, maybe. that's male socialization.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

I was a part of a weekly poker game when I lived in LA.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

But those things are picked on as unnecessary and crass.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

And every married guy in that game had a happy marriage

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:32 AM

See???

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:32 AM

and I thought - it's probably a happy marriage because they allow each other to go out and have fun on their own

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

My husband finally joined a maker space. He is so damned happy! I can't be the only person he hangs out with! And i can't be threatened or jealous that he needs that time away.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“I would like to highlight a question and have everyone answer. Is there a superior gender?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:33 AM

I think that's what we're getting at: NO. There shouldn't be.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

so do you think the modern gender equality movement might be threatening our ability to do that without judgment?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

Sort of.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

We're thinking about it wrong. Or soemthing.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

We're trying to get androgyny.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

Can we took a quick look at history?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“Equal, but different I'd say.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:34 AM

I don't think that's healthy.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:34 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“<- carefully refraining from an impulsive answer”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

So during Paganism, before Jesus, women and men were much more equal, right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

Were they?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:35 AM

Yeah, I think Paganism was reverential about the Mother figure

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:35 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“I do not believe so, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. we all know this, so why do we seem to see that in many people, they think men are. its really arrogant and they miss what women really offer.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

Much of Buddhism, Hinduism and eastern thought is much more into the whole Yin-Yang dynamic.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:36 AM

And I think at some point 1000 years later the Catholic Church launched a deliberate war on women

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:36 AM

Yes.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

what was THAT all about?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

As a way to quell paganism.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“THEY did jordan.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

it was direct.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“OK NOW, why when most people speak of god do they say HE, who gives birth in the animal kingdom? LOL see where I am going? see how philosophy was writin by men?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:37 AM

Jesus. And I mean it to be punny.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:37 AM

And also for political reasons. If women were subordinate, then offspring and wives could be managed like chattel and tagged and papered.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

By which I mean they could be authenticated.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

I don't mean to sound naive, but literally - where was the love?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“It was said that Mary Magdelene was the most powerful in Jesus' first church”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

Right?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:38 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“When you live in hard times you need everyone to contribute to the community. Men and women. People that lived a long time ago, simply couldn't afford sexism. Everybody had to work.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:38 AM

it's a pretty shitty way to treat people.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

But, no offense to anyone, but the Christian movement was never really one for moving peacefully and quietly.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

But I mean - don't people love each other? I mean, I'm not trying to justify clashes of clans, based on race or territory or ideology or whatever...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

I realize humans are prone to fighting with groups that seem different

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

Well, JB - we are living in the most peaceful time in human history.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:39 AM

let that sink in for a minute.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:39 AM

but your Mom, sister and wife?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“When the Roman Catholic church formed they were quick to dismiss any role that Mary had and simply smeared her as being a prostitute”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“ya horrible eh?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“In fact she is said to have financed most of the early missions”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Very true Rebecca...thank goodness Islam came along :-)”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“that is a frightening thought rebecca”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from Wayne Delorme

“we treat a lot of people shitty today. I strive for equality.... everyone has the same rights. the only difference I see is that men are generally stronger than women, so the man carries the heavy bag (or whoever's stronger).”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:40 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“If you ask me, its because women have a better spiritual connection, we call it womens intuition. That is why they were trying to strike them down.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

So - maybe people were more equal- I actually think you'd have to go back farther than the beginnings of Christianity -

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

but people were also lots more violent.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:41 AM

It's the same disbelief I face when I see an oil executive doom his grandchildren to a future of misery

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

And, Greece's Democracy was not very democratic -

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:41 AM

because women were excluded.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

it looked a lot like Colonial America, with the "Only landholding, freeborn white men can vote" thing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:42 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“For the most part Kelly. There are some that are devolving unfortunately”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

Egypt was also uneqal.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:42 AM

There were female pharos, but they dressed as men and behaved as men.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

The original cross dressers!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Democracy was a foreign concept when Kings and religious leaders ruled the day”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“At the time...we've to compare everything to its time period in history. Greece was well ahead of everyone else.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

hahahaha!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Well we do know about Cleopatra”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:43 AM

And Cleopatra was a notable exception.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

Wasn't Agora a really big deal in ancient Greece, as well?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:43 AM

another exception

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

Yup.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

I mean, there were also some very powerful British Queens.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:44 AM

so do you think the inception of gender inequality might be as simple as : might makes right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

And they were right up in the misogyny there!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

Dude, yeah.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:44 AM

It makes me sad to say it.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:44 AM

do you think physical strength is the original source, right?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

Mmmmmm, maybe. Maybe not.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

Maybe the original JUSTIFICATION, which is different.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“its the whole duality thing. Man/woman emotion/mind strength/weakness good/bad. Its all illusion created by us, once we see we are all equal, Thats when we will see a brave new world.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:45 AM

Honestly, I think that feminine power over life was the original cause.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:45 AM

Yeah, that makes sense

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

Because there is nothing more powerful than a self-posessed woman giving birth.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

Nothing.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

lol

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“The Patriarch religions: Judaism, Christainity, and Islam all view women as subservient to the man. In Greek and Roman Mythology women served the role of many of the Gods”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

It's...not like what you see on TV.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“Men have stronger upper bodies for lifting things. Women have stronger lower bodies for giving birth. Equal, but different.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

No, I'm being very serious.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:46 AM

most people never see that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:46 AM

How awful is the Adam and Eve story from a gender role perspectove?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

Even today, we do everything we can to take birth as far away from femal control as possible.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

yeah, it's shit.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

And it's from a male perspective of childbirth, too.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:47 AM

i'm telling you something important.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:47 AM

I mean, it's like the first message of creation - don't trust the woman!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:48 AM

lol - i believe you're telling us something important!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

yeah, i never thought of it that way. Bunch of asshole writers!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

When my best friend was in labor at her house, she was the most powerful person on the planet.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“YA stupid BS, I trust everyone untill they give me reason not to.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:48 AM

I think that is terrifying fo rmen to watch.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:49 AM

Kelly - I used to be like that. Got burned too many times. Now I'm more cynical, but it's better.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:49 AM

yes - birth is tough for guys to handle

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:49 AM

I'm sure there is a subconscious element ivolved

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“Ever hear of dolphin water birthing?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

But it's NOT tough for women to handle - they've just forgotten.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:49 AM

yeah, Kelly.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:49 AM

what's that?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

(insert flipper joke here)

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

I'm an alternative birth agitator.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:50 AM

birth agitator? what, do you talk shit to the baby inside the womb?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Ha! No, people with money can pay to have a water birth in the ocean with dolphins.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

Because the dolphins are apparently very good doulas/midwives.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:50 AM

No, I tell doctors to back the fuck off the womb!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

like, "I bet you don't have the guts to come out and face the world! You just want to stay inside, where it's nice and warm."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

hahahaha! JB: Talks shit to babies!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“no pain during birth, kids are super smart and one has a phycic link to a dolphine born at the same time he was, if all that is true( internet) lol.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“the dolphin sonars the baby and monther.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“its really amazing stuff”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:51 AM

It's not really talking shit. I'm using reverse psychology to encourage them to get born.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:51 AM

I've never seen a dolphin birth.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

but I have seen water births. And midwife births at home.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

And hospital births.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

LOL.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

Great, now I have to be pissed at my Mom for not birthing me with Free Willy

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

Another $250 down the drain...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:52 AM

oh that was a whale

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

9I mean for the therapy session to decompress about the dolphin thing)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

who was the dolphin with the prosthetic tale? winter?

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“IF i had a wife and she was having a kid, you would have to kill me to stop me, I have no fear. don't like blood but wtf its not mine and I should be there for support. true?”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:53 AM

The better thing to do would be to keep everyone else back up off her and let her channel that power.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

so what kind of gender stereotypes do dolphins face?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Don't know. they thanked us for all the fish...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:54 AM

Oh - I have a cool thing to share

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Anyway, so we swung really wide, Jordan. Sorry?

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:54 AM

Please share!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“OH almost outta time. If anyone is interested in helping write a new social philosophy, one for todays world. My facebook is kelly mackin SURPRIZE lol.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

1 - that's why we're Tawking and not lecturing

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

(regarding the wide swings)

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

here's the cool thing to share

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:55 AM

there was a major psychological study conducted at the air force devoted to leadership

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:56 AM

researchers were trying to identify the characteristics that inspired the greatest satisfaction and motivation in subordinates

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

And the results...and this is the MILITARY, I remind you...

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

is that the most effective leadership qualities are those considered to be "feminine" - nurturing, supportive and understanding.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:57 AM

generated the most satisfaction and motivation

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“wanna know why?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“I'll remember that.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

Yes! That's back to Seth's quote from Cannery Row last week about the qualities we most admire are the qualities we most abhor.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“be the change you want to see in the world.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:58 AM

And that's what I mean when I say that the current gender paradigm is damaging to BOTH sexes:

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

I'm not surprised, by the way, that the study has not received worldwide attention

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

the expectations we have for men and what men are and what's "manly" aren't authentic, either.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:59 AM

I'll grab the name of the researcher and post it afterwards

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:59 AM

just like the notion that women should be manly to be equal.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

well, as usual, 60 minutes felt like 6

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

I think this topic deserves evisiting

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

revisiting

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“I know need longer tawks hehehe.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“Loved the tawk.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

So true! And we didn't even get to the generation gap and gender roles!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Robin Maynard

“well, kelly, i can't seem to find you on FB”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:00 AM

Indeed!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:01 AM

And I'll try not to be so birthy next time...

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

I love the connections that we build here, so let's fix that!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

don't be silly!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:01 AM

Be RWT as is every time, please!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Hahahaha. Well, as usual, i just talk about breastfeeding and then it gets awkward...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“post a link to your facebook.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

Please - I brought up subconscious sexual desire for our parents...

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:02 AM

Or use your email address.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:02 AM

talk about awkward...

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

all right everyone, good night!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

I can't disagree.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

but I blame Freud.

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:03 AM

good game, good game, good game, good game, good game

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

Thanks, everyone! Forum, you guys are great! Kelly, keep us posted and good luck, man!

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“Good game.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:03 AM

hahahaha, Ross!

Jordan Birnbaum · 3:04 AM

I'm giving you all "e-fist bumps."

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from kelly mackin

“goon night everyone love ya all, have a good life.”

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

Poundin' the rock, man.

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 3:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from ross dittman

“An e-fist bump back at you.”

Forum · 163

Forum· 163 comments

80 visitors

Tawkers AdminMar 3, 2014, 2:01 AM

Welcome to the comment section of the Tawk, where audience members can share their thoughts about the main conversation happening on the left. Don't by shy! Entering questions and comments is the only way to get the attention of the two Hosts on stage!

kelly mackinMar 4, 2014, 9:06 PM★ Spotlighted

I am so here for this. I would like to mention a few philosophers that have talked about this. Simone de beauvoir, Mary wollstonecraft and Julia kristeva.

kelly mackinMar 4, 2014, 9:10 PM★ Spotlighted

Oh, and helene cixous. If anyone can think of any other women philosophers, plz list their names for me to research.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 1:38 AM

I think the #1 solution to our behavioral problems is equality. I do not see equality between the sexes very often. My mom says its better then it was when she was young. I do see women standing up for rights now. They think something but what?

Johnathonfall thethirdMar 5, 2014, 1:47 AM

Women are the problem and the solution!

Johnathonfall thethirdMar 5, 2014, 1:48 AM

mother earth, the mother!

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:00 AM★ Spotlighted

hello

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:00 AM

hello Rebecca and Jordan

Mike DwornikMar 5, 2014, 2:00 AM

Good evening!

Rick RosnerMar 5, 2014, 2:00 AM

And hermaphrodites.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:00 AM

and Hi Kelly

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:00 AM

yo robin

Rick RosnerMar 5, 2014, 2:01 AM★ Spotlighted

What job?

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:02 AM

I feel very strongly towards this tawk. I would love to have more female perspectives cuz there are certain things I will never know unless I ask and listen.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:02 AM

exactly.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:02 AM★ Spotlighted

But i do believe mind has no gender.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:02 AM

LOL

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:03 AM

ok shoot

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:03 AM★ Spotlighted

i like to think you're right about that kelly

Mike DwornikMar 5, 2014, 2:04 AM★ Spotlighted

Gender roles constantly evolve.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:04 AM

we all constantly evolve.

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:05 AM★ Spotlighted

I think the roles are evolving closer together and that's a good thing.

Rick RosnerMar 5, 2014, 2:05 AM

Rebecca: If I was searching for a joke i would have put down Dolly Parton,

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:05 AM

it's makes equality easier

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:06 AM

Yep me too.

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:06 AM

with the right environment, it will be good. the present environment is damaging

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:06 AM

I just mean when born.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:06 AM

eviroment creates the minds gender and thats the main difference.

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:07 AM

without strong parental influences, our children are being driven by the system

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:07 AM

but certain women produce more testosterone then men even. my question is why.

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:07 AM★ Spotlighted

A college professor once told me that psychologists put a group of men in one room, and told them to wait before doing a task, and the men were silent. They did the same thing with a group of women, and the women talked with each other.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:08 AM★ Spotlighted

We do not treat our mothers the same as we do our fathers do we?

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:09 AM★ Spotlighted

why is it that most fathers prefer the daughters and most moms prefer the sons?

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:09 AM

YES i agree totally we should be striving to say person not man or woman. only when that contexts is needed.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:10 AM

LOL

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:10 AM★ Spotlighted

What about gay couples then?

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:10 AM

my dad was a dick... my mom and i were really good friends

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:10 AM

but not THAT good.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:10 AM

freud was a man.

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:10 AM

ew.

Rick RosnerMar 5, 2014, 2:11 AM★ Spotlighted

It's dangerous to ignore Freud just because we don't like an idea . . .

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:11 AM★ Spotlighted

Or as they called him in Wayne's World: Freud Dude

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:12 AM

most of the people i admire today have at least one opinion I don't agree with....

Rick RosnerMar 5, 2014, 2:12 AM

Freud and Jung, my pals.

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:12 AM

Scratch that I meant Bill & Ted's

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:12 AM★ Spotlighted

ok out of 115 philosophers, 5 or women. and most philosophies that our world runs on were writin by men.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:12 AM

5 are i mean.

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:13 AM

the women weren't allowed to make history...

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:13 AM

simone de beauvoir man is claimed as human and women as female.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:13 AM

YA so backwards.

Rick RosnerMar 5, 2014, 2:14 AM

Not to make it OK - to accept it as OK.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:14 AM★ Spotlighted

they are women and we must recognize that. they have amazing gifts and we should be looking at that.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:15 AM

Well said rebecca. well said.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:15 AM★ Spotlighted

it makes me sad that my sweet, loving grandson "needs to be tougher" says his mom.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:16 AM

I'm really here to find more women who might be willing to help with writing a new social philosophy. I cannot write a females perspective. I am not female. who would be willing to help?

Rick RosnerMar 5, 2014, 2:16 AM

@Rebecca: and the reaction formation is?

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:17 AM

kelly, i don't think i have the 'average womens' perspective. but if i can help, i certainly will try.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:17 AM

LOL even though the world is not really ok right now. it is our chance to awaken, it is showing us what not to be like.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:18 AM

Are you female robin. LMAO rebecca

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:18 AM★ Spotlighted

I hate the culture, not the people

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:18 AM

yes, i am, kelly

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:19 AM

ok Got facebook? I am kelly mackin LOL.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:19 AM

yep i do

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:19 AM★ Spotlighted

OMG rebecca.

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:19 AM★ Spotlighted

That's hilarious.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:19 AM

same goes for anyone who would like to help write a new social philosophy

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:19 AM★ Spotlighted

LOL rebecca, you sure you don't think like a man :).

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:20 AM★ Spotlighted

ohh good question.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:21 AM★ Spotlighted

yep yep, I am trying to help someone deal with a really smart kid that does not want to be a school cuz he wants to learn his own things.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:22 AM★ Spotlighted

try kidzucate. its kids being the teachers.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:23 AM★ Spotlighted

its very new I just found out about it. as I said I was trying to help someone with the school issues.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:23 AM

homeschool still has a required coriculum.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:23 AM

i cant spell LOL not enough school heheheh.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

we are born artist, it slowly gets trianed out of us -- pablo picaso

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:24 AM★ Spotlighted

Just like twitter.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:25 AM

and htink of even the math class. how long of teaching different numbers to multiply before we teach AxB=C THATS why my friends kid was so pissed at school.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:26 AM★ Spotlighted

Jaque fresco has the right idea, kids have a place to go and learn whatever they want to learn about, amazing stuff too look it up.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

you want to see what a kid who educates himself can do. watch this kid logan leplante, amazing.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11u3vtcpaY

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:28 AM★ Spotlighted

i have told my 7 yr old grandson... the whole world is there for us to learn about. he's good at asking questions.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:29 AM★ Spotlighted

I wanbt to see us as equals but we must realize we are different. Acceptance of differences is important.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:30 AM

how so?

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

oh, yes it does

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:30 AM

we must not try to hose someone at the auto shop cuz "a female" is a sucker when it comes to tools or some stupid crap like that. that has got to go.

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:30 AM★ Spotlighted

There are four things that motivate people. Competition, sincerity, responsibility, and fun.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:33 AM★ Spotlighted

I would like to highlight a question and have everyone answer. Is there a superior gender?

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:34 AM★ Spotlighted

<- carefully refraining from an impulsive answer

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:34 AM★ Spotlighted

Equal, but different I'd say.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:35 AM★ Spotlighted

I do not believe so, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. we all know this, so why do we seem to see that in many people, they think men are. its really arrogant and they miss what women really offer.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:35 AM

wholeheartedly agree, kelly

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:36 AM

possibly it is best to view people as individuals not as groups.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

OK NOW, why when most people speak of god do they say HE, who gives birth in the animal kingdom? LOL see where I am going? see how philosophy was writin by men?

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:36 AM★ Spotlighted

THEY did jordan.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:37 AM

The spnish inquisition killed so many women and same with the salom witch hunts it is really sad

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

It was said that Mary Magdelene was the most powerful in Jesus' first church

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

When you live in hard times you need everyone to contribute to the community. Men and women. People that lived a long time ago, simply couldn't afford sexism. Everybody had to work.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:38 AM

its the political areana, we are all children and they are the adults making our dicisions.

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:38 AM★ Spotlighted

When the Roman Catholic church formed they were quick to dismiss any role that Mary had and simply smeared her as being a prostitute

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

ya horrible eh?

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:39 AM★ Spotlighted

In fact she is said to have financed most of the early missions

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

If you ask me, its because women have a better spiritual connection, we call it womens intuition. That is why they were trying to strike them down.

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

Very true Rebecca...thank goodness Islam came along :-)

Wayne DelormeMar 5, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

we treat a lot of people shitty today. I strive for equality.... everyone has the same rights. the only difference I see is that men are generally stronger than women, so the man carries the heavy bag (or whoever's stronger).

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 2:40 AM★ Spotlighted

that is a frightening thought rebecca

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:41 AM

so true, we ARE evolving.

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:42 AM★ Spotlighted

For the most part Kelly. There are some that are devolving unfortunately

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:42 AM★ Spotlighted

At the time...we've to compare everything to its time period in history. Greece was well ahead of everyone else.

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:43 AM★ Spotlighted

Democracy was a foreign concept when Kings and religious leaders ruled the day

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:43 AM★ Spotlighted

Well we do know about Cleopatra

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:44 AM★ Spotlighted

its the whole duality thing. Man/woman emotion/mind strength/weakness good/bad. Its all illusion created by us, once we see we are all equal, Thats when we will see a brave new world.

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:44 AM

Apparently the ancient Egyptians were really into drinking and then they converted to Islam and that ended that real fast

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:45 AM

I love egyptian stuff seth, I'm all about thoth.

Seth HochmanMar 5, 2014, 2:46 AM★ Spotlighted

The Patriarch religions: Judaism, Christainity, and Islam all view women as subservient to the man. In Greek and Roman Mythology women served the role of many of the Gods

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:46 AM★ Spotlighted

Men have stronger upper bodies for lifting things. Women have stronger lower bodies for giving birth. Equal, but different.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:47 AM

They have the creation energy, they have better links to spirituality. men should be learning that instead we run away from our souls, most often. those are the people de-evolving seth.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:48 AM★ Spotlighted

YA stupid BS, I trust everyone untill they give me reason not to.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:48 AM★ Spotlighted

Ever hear of dolphin water birthing?

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:49 AM

cuz the mirror happened, men thought we were strong, but we are not we cannot even face ourselves, unless we get over ourselves.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:50 AM

look it up, to much to say here its amazing.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:50 AM

LMAO

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:50 AM

lol

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:50 AM★ Spotlighted

no pain during birth, kids are super smart and one has a phycic link to a dolphine born at the same time he was, if all that is true( internet) lol.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:51 AM★ Spotlighted

the dolphin sonars the baby and monther.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:51 AM★ Spotlighted

its really amazing stuff

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:51 AM

LMAO jordan\

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:52 AM

lmao

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:53 AM★ Spotlighted

IF i had a wife and she was having a kid, you would have to kill me to stop me, I have no fear. don't like blood but wtf its not mine and I should be there for support. true?

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:54 AM★ Spotlighted

OH almost outta time. If anyone is interested in helping write a new social philosophy, one for todays world. My facebook is kelly mackin SURPRIZE lol.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:55 AM

that was my bad sorry. dolphins are kewl heheheh.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:56 AM

plz go on...

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:56 AM

grrr control

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:57 AM

I know heheheh they should all quit thier jobs lol.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:57 AM

the ones that kill i mean.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:57 AM

makes sense

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:58 AM★ Spotlighted

wanna know why?

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 2:58 AM★ Spotlighted

I'll remember that.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:58 AM★ Spotlighted

be the change you want to see in the world.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:59 AM

if you yell at someone expecting them to get better LOL its fear based. if you show someone love, well, love is the key to true knowledge.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 2:59 AM

sheeple will intigrate justify then project qualities they see.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:00 AM

its not a notion. women ARE equal.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:00 AM★ Spotlighted

I know need longer tawks hehehe.

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 3:00 AM★ Spotlighted

Loved the tawk.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:00 AM

for sure

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:00 AM★ Spotlighted

well, kelly, i can't seem to find you on FB

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:00 AM

OH NO

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:01 AM

found two girls

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:01 AM

Umm I'm new to facebook so I dont know how to help

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:02 AM

I live in regina

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 3:02 AM★ Spotlighted

post a link to your facebook.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:02 AM

saskatchewan canada regina kelly mackin fw johnson highschool.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:02 AM

ok. well, you could get on your account and make a friend request to me... i reckon

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:02 AM

robin maynard?

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:03 AM

yes

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:03 AM

kellymackin0@gmail.com

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:03 AM

g'nite JB and rebecca

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:03 AM

LOL carl jund blew frued away.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:03 AM

llll/

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 3:03 AM★ Spotlighted

Good game.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:03 AM★ Spotlighted

goon night everyone love ya all, have a good life.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:04 AM

g'nite, Kelly

ross dittmanMar 5, 2014, 3:04 AM★ Spotlighted

An e-fist bump back at you.

kelly mackinMar 5, 2014, 3:04 AM

no way robin I'm getting you on facebook first lol.

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:04 AM

ok =]

Robin MaynardMar 5, 2014, 3:07 AM

Ooooo, I just found you, Kelly! really had to dig around