Melanie Berliet

Host

What Do Women Get From Casual Sex?

Nov 26, 2013·151 visitors

Justin Garcia

Cohost

Stage· 123 messages

Nov 26, 2013

So far, the discourse surrounding hookup culture has focused on the fact that young women are embracing casual sex as eagerly as their male peers. But when it comes to sex without strings, are women really equal to men? Research conducted by Evolutionary Biologist Dr. Justin R. Garcia demonstrates that females are twice as likely to climax through sexual activity with a committed partner than during an indiscriminate hookup. So what do women actually gain from the casual sex they're seeking?

Melanie Berliet · 9:00 PM

Thank you so much for joining me, Dr. Garcia! Hopefully it's less blustery in Bloomington, Indiana than it is here in NYC.

Justin Garcia · 9:00 PM

Hi Melanie! Thrilled to be on with you. Thank for the invite. :)

Melanie Berliet · 9:00 PM

I'll get right into it then!

Melanie Berliet · 9:01 PM

What specific elements of casual sex do you believe present barriers to climaxing for women?

Melanie Berliet · 9:01 PM

(For those who haven't read the NY Times piece citing Garcia's research on hookup culture, here's a link: http://nyti.ms/1akW4ib)

Justin Garcia · 9:02 PM

Well, that's a big question, with a lot of different components! So, I'll start with the biological, then the cultural, and then the psychological

Melanie Berliet · 9:02 PM

sounds like a good plan!

Justin Garcia · 9:03 PM

For women, there are all sorts of barriers to orgasm; and we know there is a lot of variation in orgasmic experiences among women (let's get back to that). To start, one of the barriers can be biological/hormonal/anatomical.

Justin Garcia · 9:04 PM

We know, for instance, that hormone levels can have an impact. Perhaps explaining differences across the menstrual cycle, across the lifespan, and across different hormonally mediated periods of life (pregnancy, post partum, menopause, etc).

Melanie Berliet · 9:04 PM

Is it harder for the average woman to orgasm than it is for the average man?

Justin Garcia · 9:05 PM

Also, a very interested study by Kim Wallen and Lisa Lloyd that appeared in the prestigious journal Hormones and Behavior, suggested that the distance between the clitoris and vaginal opening (termed the CUMD) can also have an impact!

Melanie Berliet · 9:05 PM

an anatomical issues! interesting

Justin Garcia · 9:05 PM

Meaning a woman's individual genital anatomy can make orgasm, particularly from penetrative intercourse, more or less easy to achieve

Melanie Berliet · 9:05 PM

What are some things women can do to increase the likelihood that they'll orgasm during a hookup?

Justin Garcia · 9:06 PM

Hmm… well, in terms of sex differences, its hard to say if it's harder for women or men, as hey are different biological issues, social/cultural, and psychological, unique to men and women. BUT, we do know that men experience orgasm, on average,

Justin Garcia · 9:06 PM

with less barriers

Melanie Berliet · 9:06 PM

Right, which seems totally unfair!

Justin Garcia · 9:06 PM

It is!

Melanie Berliet · 9:07 PM

But are we perhaps TOO focused on orgasming during sex? Should sex that doesn't lead to climax for both parties necessarily be looked upon as a failure?

Justin Garcia · 9:07 PM

And part of what is unfair, are the persistent sexual double standards that exists in contemporary sexualities - which in turn impact pleasure and orgasm, as well as safety and well-being

Melanie Berliet · 9:08 PM

slut shaming is a prevalent issue that i imagine play a role in this

Justin Garcia · 9:08 PM

YES, huge!

Justin Garcia · 9:09 PM

Some recent work suggests that women worry about the social stigma impacts of engaging in sex outside of a romantic relationship (including hookups). And they are right to worry - in the U.S. women are judged more harshly for this behavior!

Melanie Berliet · 9:10 PM

So true. When girlfriends in college used to tell me that they lied to people about "their number" I always found that so silly. Counterproductive, rather.

Melanie Berliet · 9:11 PM

But there was a reason they were compelled to adjust it down. The old Rule Of Three's always seems to apply (to quote American Pie, the sequel)

Justin Garcia · 9:12 PM

Good point! I wonder, often, is it counterproductive? Women in particular face pressures to report a low number. It's a shame we haven't yet gotten to a place where people, regardless of gender, can talk frankly and honestly about their sexuality.

Justin Garcia · 9:12 PM

Exactly. There are definitely reasons for this sort of behavior

Melanie Berliet · 9:12 PM

Some women quoted in the New York Times piece referred to sexual inexperience (on both sides) and lack of knowledge as a barrier to arousal. What are some things we can do to remedy this?

Melanie Berliet · 9:13 PM

Should we be encouraging everyone to masturbate more in the name of figuring out their bodies?

Justin Garcia · 9:13 PM

It's a bit of a puzzle, though. Even Freud toyed with the idea of how sexual experience shaped our perceptions of romantic/sexual partners

Justin Garcia · 9:14 PM

If you want to have a sexual partner, in theory, those with more experience might have more developed skills, interests, agency, and overall sexual ability. Yet, at the same time, statistically, they are at higher risk for STIs

Justin Garcia · 9:14 PM

so, how do we balance those decisions. It turns out it might depend on whether you want to DATE them or HOOKUP with them (temporarily leaving aside the two categories often intermingle)

Melanie Berliet · 9:15 PM

How do you differentiate dating from hooking up, scientifically?

Justin Garcia · 9:16 PM

Well, as you know, I'm somewhat cautious about giving people any prescriptive advice. I think the things people do to improve their sexual lives, depends a lot on their own comfort levels and who their partners are. It's not one size fits all, no pun

Melanie Berliet · 9:17 PM

Good pun!

Justin Garcia · 9:17 PM

Melanie Berliet · 9:18 PM

So if not in the name of nature's ultimate sensual reward, why are women engaging in hookup behavior? What do women get from casual sex?

Justin Garcia · 9:18 PM

Well, different researchers differentiate in different ways. One way we do this in my lab and with my colleagues, is to ask people about sexual experiences across a wide variety of relationship contexts

Justin Garcia · 9:19 PM

those may include committed romantic relationships; uncommitted sexual hookups; friends with benefits; or even prostitution

Melanie Berliet · 9:20 PM

When I initially suggested calling this tawk What Do Women Get From RANDOM Sex? you pointed out that sex is rarely "random." Can you elaborate on this please.

Justin Garcia · 9:20 PM

Well, you just asked the million dollar question! WHY do we engage in sexual hookups?

Justin Garcia · 9:20 PM

We started addressing this question in one of our first articles on sexual hookups (Garcia & Reiber, 2008)

Justin Garcia · 9:21 PM

It turns out, men and women are remarkably similar in their self-reported motivations for hooking up

Melanie Berliet · 9:22 PM

When I thought about it, the difference definitely made sense, but I think we all tend to interchange the words "random" and "casual" mistakenly when it comes to sex.

Melanie Berliet · 9:22 PM

What does everyone want? Love?

Justin Garcia · 9:23 PM

while around 90% of men and women say they hookup for physical gratification, some 50% say they do it for emotional gratification, and another 50% say they do it to initiate a romantic relationship!!

Justin Garcia · 9:24 PM

I think there is a lot more overlap between sex and love than we realize, even in polarized cases of uncommitted "casual" hookups, ad serious committed romantic relationships

Melanie Berliet · 9:24 PM

I recently read a piece in which the writer suggested that people seek three things in a partner: sex, companionship, and money. The problem, he believes, is that it is super rare to find all three things in one person.

Justin Garcia · 9:24 PM

a point you've adressed in some of your popular article, Melanie! That people are often looking for something other than what's on the surface.

Melanie Berliet · 9:24 PM

Indeed!

Justin Garcia · 9:25 PM

HA! Well, that's not an altogether silly way to think about it. Passion, companionship, and resources to rank high in establishing relationships

Justin Garcia · 9:25 PM

so back to "random" and "casual"

Melanie Berliet · 9:26 PM

Yes...

Justin Garcia · 9:26 PM

I try to avoid the term "random" sex, and I also personally prefer to not use "casual" sex when referring to hookups

Melanie Berliet · 9:26 PM

Ahhhh, understandable. What term do you prefer? Hookup?

Justin Garcia · 9:27 PM

primarily because sex is almost never random. We have evolved over millions of years, to have our romantic and sexual decisions driven by parts of our evolved psychology

Melanie Berliet · 9:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sasha A. Tcherevkoff

“I see a ton of sex research coming out of Indiana University concentrating on 1st world populations. What do third world populations tell us about sex?”

Melanie Berliet · 9:27 PM

Great question Sasha (Justin, pls address)

Justin Garcia · 9:27 PM

and similarly, it's many things, but often not entirely casual - if you hookup looking to start a relationship, is that casual"

Justin Garcia · 9:27 PM

Great question, Sasha!

Justin Garcia · 9:28 PM

Many of us at IU focus on sexuality in the U.S. or other "WEIRD" (westernized, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic) socities

Melanie Berliet · 9:28 PM

That's a fantastic acronym

Justin Garcia · 9:29 PM

it's from a great paper by Joe Henrich and colleagues

Justin Garcia · 9:29 PM

but, if we look globally, we learn a lot about how sexuality is a bio-cultural processes, wherein our bodies (and genes and brains and hormones) interact with particular cultural practices in particular places and times

Melanie Berliet · 9:30 PM

Everybody kisses, right?

Melanie Berliet · 9:30 PM

In different ways, of course.

Justin Garcia · 9:30 PM

we don't know much about casual sex practices outside these populations. But, we do know that sex always happens, and it's almost always heavily regulated by social institutions

Melanie Berliet · 9:31 PM

Here's the piece in which I quoted Dr. Garcia on kissing. Cross-cultural kissing tendencies are mentioned: http://bit.ly/11gBnTp

Justin Garcia · 9:31 PM

And many things we find strange here, are quite regulated elsewhere.

Justin Garcia · 9:31 PM

Oh yes, kissing! A great topic - and great piece you wrote, Melanie! :)

Melanie Berliet · 9:31 PM

What sort of things that we find weird are regular elsewhere?

Justin Garcia · 9:32 PM

So, people everywhere seem to kiss. But, in our newest cross-cultural data, we are seeing that it's not always sexual

Justin Garcia · 9:32 PM

it seems like kissing may be an intimate gesture that occurs between individuals, ranging from parent-child to romantic partners

Melanie Berliet · 9:32 PM

Interesting. So two friends might make out. Or business colleagues even?

Melanie Berliet · 9:33 PM

As a thank you for a favor?

Justin Garcia · 9:33 PM

but, in some places kissing is sexualized - like in the U.S… so we generally kiss our friends and family in a different way from kissing our lovers. But, the way we kiss lovers might be somewhat cultural, but evolve out of more human universals

Justin Garcia · 9:33 PM

as kissing for emotional intimacy

Melanie Berliet · 9:33 PM

I've always found it interesting that the ancient Greeks had multiple terms for love, whereas we're stuck with ONE, which means that we stretch the term too thin.

Justin Garcia · 9:33 PM

hot new data! we aren't finished analyzing it all yet

Melanie Berliet · 9:34 PM

Oh, I can't wait to hear about the results!

Justin Garcia · 9:34 PM

oh great point on love terminology!

Melanie Berliet · 9:34 PM

We need to make up some terms together to reference different kinds of love. I'm fed up having just one!

Justin Garcia · 9:35 PM

People everywhere have expressions for romantic love, but there often isn't a lot of variation. We seem to all know about this intensity, and understand that humans in every corner of the globe know it

Melanie Berliet · 9:36 PM

On another note, how do you think the prevalence of pornography is impacting young people's behavior between the sheets?

Justin Garcia · 9:36 PM

i.e., “I love you” (English), Jeg elsker dig (Danish), Aloha Au Ia ‘Oe (Hawaiian), Bi shimbe hairambi (Manchu), Ngiyakutsandza (SiSwati), or even perhaps Dw i’n dy garu di (Welsh)

Melanie Berliet · 9:37 PM

I've read that more and more young men are experiencing erectile dysfunction as a result of porn addiction.

Justin Garcia · 9:37 PM

so many dialects, yet always such an important aspect of the human condition - covered in art, music, performative and material culture. Love is central to what it means to be human… I dare say.

Justin Garcia · 9:38 PM

Ahh, Porn! What a hot topic among academics at the moment!

Melanie Berliet · 9:38 PM

The academics of porn!

Justin Garcia · 9:38 PM

The jury is really out, with lots of conflicting studies, and questions about the best methodology to assess the impacts of pornography on peoples sex lives

Justin Garcia · 9:38 PM

They exist!

Justin Garcia · 9:39 PM

there are a lot of different studies

Justin Garcia · 9:39 PM

and some suggest pornography can lead to addiction and changes in the brain; others suggest it has no unique affects compared to other visual stimuli; others say we don't know!

Melanie Berliet · 9:40 PM

I imagine it is difficult to define addiction when it comes to something like watching porn, though

Justin Garcia · 9:40 PM

in extreme cases, it probably can result in addictions, and have negative consequences in the bedroom; on the other hand, for some, it might have positive results in the bedroom

Melanie Berliet · 9:40 PM

Since shame might lead to overblown ideas about what constitutes too much.

Melanie Berliet · 9:41 PM

Everything in moderation, including moderation!

Justin Garcia · 9:41 PM

it's important for us to think about individual differences, and how stimuli and exposure might manifest in different ways

Melanie Berliet · 9:41 PM

Yes! We are each an enigma waiting to be solved.

Melanie Berliet · 9:42 PM

I don't want to take up too much more of your time, but please tell us which of your current projects you're most excited about.

Justin Garcia · 9:42 PM

yes, exactly! notions of porn addiction, much like sex addiction, are very difficult to define and very controversial among academics (and also the public)

Melanie Berliet · 9:43 PM

You always have so many fascinating things going on!

Justin Garcia · 9:43 PM

Great question! I'm exacted about a few projects at the moment, but the two that have me most excited is a new project on Extreme Love

Melanie Berliet · 9:43 PM

ohhhh, extreme love sounds intriguing. like, obsession?

Justin Garcia · 9:43 PM

and another, which I conduct with my collaborator Dr. Helen Fisher, and is sponsored by the online dating site Match.com, called Singles in America (SIA)

Melanie Berliet · 9:44 PM

more and more people are remaining single for longer periods of time, right?

Justin Garcia · 9:44 PM

Yes! Obsession, but also how love relationships can define our lives. Imagine staying with a partner for years as they die of a terminal illness. OR finding your lover in bed with another and turning in a fit of rage (committing a crime of passion)

Justin Garcia · 9:45 PM

how can love define our existence, in so many ways, in so many contrasting directions

Melanie Berliet · 9:45 PM

oh wow. I love that topic (see, another word for "love" would have helped there!)

Melanie Berliet · 9:45 PM

Fascinating, as always!

Melanie Berliet · 9:45 PM

Everyone should of course check out Dr. Garcia's most recent book, Evolution and Human Sexual Behavior: http://amzn.to/1bkZfcB

Justin Garcia · 9:45 PM

Yes! There are more adult singles in the U.S. today than any other society we know of in the anthropological literature - over 100 million single adults in America today, weaving in and out of romantic and sexual relationships

Justin Garcia · 9:46 PM

Thanks!

Melanie Berliet · 9:46 PM

Weaving in and out of romantic relationships, and swiping each other aside on Tinder!

Justin Garcia · 9:47 PM

And thanks for all your support, Melanie - and bringing the science to the table for the public in your own wonderful journalistic pieces on relationships!

Justin Garcia · 9:48 PM

Yup! Swipe left or right? :)

Melanie Berliet · 9:48 PM

Thank you thank you! With that, I believe it is time to sign off! You've been a wonderful co-host, Dr. Garcia!!!

Justin Garcia · 9:48 PM

I just found out about Tindr recently - it seems to be getting more popular among my own friends (not to mention my students)

Justin Garcia · 9:48 PM

Thanks for having me! A pleasure, as ALWAYS!And thanks to everyone who joined us. :)

Melanie Berliet · 9:49 PM

I'll be in touch soon with yet more questions for you on all things love, sex, and relationship related!

Melanie Berliet · 9:49 PM

Yes, thank you to our audience. Bye bye! Stay warm.

Justin Garcia · 9:49 PM

Forum · 20

Forum· 20 comments

151 visitors

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Sasha A. TcherevkoffNov 26, 2013, 8:44 PM

I like Sex

Sasha A. TcherevkoffNov 26, 2013, 8:49 PM

Justin=badass sexologist

Cathy CubillaNov 26, 2013, 8:52 PM

I think they think they are becoming liberated....little do they know.

Sasha A. TcherevkoffNov 26, 2013, 9:05 PM

Do socio-economic factors play a role in how often men or women can orgasm?

Cathy CubillaNov 26, 2013, 9:06 PM

Oh, I thought this was about the emotional and psychological impact of being used.

Sasha A. TcherevkoffNov 26, 2013, 9:16 PM★ Spotlighted

I see a ton of sex research coming out of Indiana University concentrating on 1st world populations. What do third world populations tell us about sex?

Sasha A. TcherevkoffNov 26, 2013, 9:32 PM

In general (and its a big 'general'): has religion been good or bad for sexual development and exploration?

Shelby DanceNov 26, 2013, 9:50 PM

Very interesting! :)

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Tammy BainesNov 11, 2014, 6:53 AM

Oh hey wots this thing all about someone explain ??