Jordan Birnbaum

Host

What If The Tea Party Was One Of Us?

May 17, 2013·23 visitors

Seth Hochman

Cohost

Stage· 161 messages

May 17, 2013

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

Mr. Hochman, I presume?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

Stand by folks

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

think we got him

Seth Hochman · 1:02 AM

Welcome

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:02 AM

Hi Seth - OK before we begin a quick word to new comers

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

the banner below explains the ways you can participate. by "listening" to each other and voting on comments, you become part of the dioscussion.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

So don't be shy!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

OK -the purpose of our Tawk tonight is to try to track the original intent of the Tea Party through to a logical end

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

As such, I am playing the part of an original Tea Party member, circa October 2008 at the passage of the bank bailouts

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

So keep in mind I DON'T MEAN ANYTHING I'M ABOUT TO SAY!!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

But the bank bailout is the last straw. It is all the proof we need that the government has become a bloated and corrupt insitution that enables criminality among an inner circle. It must be starved.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

Seth -wouldn't you agree?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“Mission Impossible”

Seth Hochman · 1:06 AM

I agree it's egregious giving money to the same conmen that collapsed our entire financial system...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“do you turn into a pumpkin at the end too?”

Seth Hochman · 1:07 AM

however there isn't much of a choice. Kind of like if your neighbors house is on fire. While it may not effect you directly now, it soon will. Pretty soon your house will go down as well and so will everyone's on the block

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:08 AM

Why couldn't the government have covered any losses on behalf of depositers, and allowed speculative investors to take their losses?

Seth Hochman · 1:08 AM

When someone is having a heart attack, the first thing to do is resuscitate them and then you can start asking the whys and make sure it never happens again

Seth Hochman · 1:09 AM

Truth is the whole financial system is built on confidence...

Seth Hochman · 1:10 AM

Lehman folded already so did Bear Stearns, if there is no confidence you have no financial system. People will not invest and no one will issue credit

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:10 AM

Now I'd like to point out that the entire reason behind this mess is when Bill Clinton and his Citibank friends repealed Glass Steagal. Isn't this evidence that there is a conspiracy on the Left to enrich Bankers and Ivy-League elites at the expense

Seth Hochman · 1:11 AM

Essentially Wall Street became Las Vegas, which is exactly what banks wanted when they asked for deregulation

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

of ordinary Americans?

Seth Hochman · 1:11 AM

True Clinton did sign it as part of a bad dealmaking...however deregulation certainly isn't a progressive idea. This is what happens when there are no rules for business.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:12 AM

No -this is what happens when a gigantic Federal Government manipulates market forces

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:12 AM

corporate subsidies that make corn cheap but organic vegetables expensive

Seth Hochman · 1:13 AM

Let's keep in mind that most of the bankers and hedge funds are not for Democrats...so cannot agree with you on the conspiracy

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“what happens in vegas stays in vegas”

Seth Hochman · 1:13 AM

Exactly the opposite...the banks had no regulation

Seth Hochman · 1:13 AM

and look at what happened when banks had no regulation the last time?

Seth Hochman · 1:14 AM

1929 ring a bell, when banks were making loans on stocks, thinking stocks just like real estate, would never go down. Look at how well that panned out.

Seth Hochman · 1:15 AM

I believe in free markets but I believe they are like a good football game, which only works when there are referees and rules in place. Otherwise, it would be pandemonium and no one would enjoy the game

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:15 AM

All right -even if you have a point about regulation of financial markets, can we agree that the government is bloated and corrupt?

Seth Hochman · 1:16 AM

Bloated, yes but not in the way that many people think

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:17 AM

I'll ask you to expand, but first answer this - if gov't. is bloated and corrupt, why do you want to feed it? Why make it bigger? We should bring it to its absolute minimal level!

Seth Hochman · 1:17 AM

corrupt, in many ways but so are many corporations. The bottom line is the govt must exist and has a fundamental duty to provide public safety, both physically and in terms of safety from people being scammed, robbed, and taken advantage of

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:19 AM

Corporations don't have the power to pass laws on me and force me to give them my money - only the government does

Seth Hochman · 1:19 AM

No one is feeding it, but part of the philosophy of the Tea Party is to say govt cannot work

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:19 AM

you cannot compare them

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:19 AM

No -we don't advocate anarchy -we advocate shrinking government to it's absolute minimum size

Seth Hochman · 1:20 AM

Which is inherently ridiculously, kind of like a failing child saying schools cannot work. It's not hard for them to get all F's and say see I told you so.

Seth Hochman · 1:20 AM

Failure is not hard to achieve. So, ironically you've people who say they don't believe in govt. spending there whole lives working in govt and living off the teats of the taxpayer

Seth Hochman · 1:21 AM

if it were so bad, and the private sector were so good wouldn't they join it.

Seth Hochman · 1:21 AM

In short, the corruption does happen on both sides but I believe for the Tea Party they simply say govt cannot work and govern accordingly

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:22 AM

I've yet to meet a government employee who doesn't advocate big government.

Seth Hochman · 1:22 AM

Honestly would you hire atheists to lead a church. Why would we elect people to govt who don't believe in govt?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:22 AM

I want obstructionism. I want to do whatever is possible to stop the government from taking action, because the government is evil.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“hard for a government to protect against being scammed,robbed and taken advantage of when they are also doing it too”

Seth Hochman · 1:23 AM

The key thing isn't big govt or small govt, but effective govt. In Florida, we've a Tea Party Governor and govt has gotten a lot smaller but it is no better and in fact much worse and Gov. Scott has about the lowest approval rate in the country

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:24 AM

The best way to measure the size of government is through the taxes it imposes. The tax rate is too damn high!

Seth Hochman · 1:24 AM

I won't say the govt is good or bad...it just has a necessary role. And let's be honest the economy didn't collapse because of the govt, it was because of no regulations, particularly on banks

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

maybe but the government is the one who didn't let them fail

Seth Hochman · 1:25 AM

In short, Gov isn't Satan, and corporations aren't Saints

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

and allow us to start over

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

Corporations have nothing to do withy it. They are governed by the marketplace. stop bringing them into the discussion.

Seth Hochman · 1:26 AM

When govt doesn't do something that means corprorations must do it and honestly could you tell me that corporations aren't corrupt or are looking out for the best interest of people?

Seth Hochman · 1:27 AM

Lol, the banks wanted no rules and they got it. They made their own mess and if it was up to the 'free market' they would all be bankrupt!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:27 AM

Corporations are only corrupt because government allows them to be. If corporations couldn't cheat with government assistance, the marketplace would decide and corruption would be irrelevant

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:27 AM

★ Spotlighted from Trey Williamson

“Hahah hire atheists to run a church! Great analogy Seth!”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“I'd give the government half my money out of every paycheck if I felt they were doing a good job with their public service programs. But we have old bridges, shitty schools and paper thin safety net programs... where's it goin?”

Seth Hochman · 1:28 AM

Let's recall that with banks, like most industries, the govt doesn't control the banks, the banks control the govt. There are at least five lobbyist for every member of congress

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:28 AM

All right - let's pivot to taxes

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:29 AM

Americans give up a huge chunk of their paycheck, and for what? All we do is pay off crooks?

Seth Hochman · 1:29 AM

Most corporations do the right thing but the bottom line is there are a lot of bad apples and the only incentive for corporations is to make profit, and many will do so anyway, anyhow

Seth Hochman · 1:30 AM

No one likes paying taxes, present company included but they are the price of a civilized society. And Americans pay lower taxes now than they did at anytime in their history

Seth Hochman · 1:31 AM

We also pay a lower tax rate than any other modern country. Just thought I would give you some perspective on that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

We're America

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

Don't care about other countries

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:31 AM

they're corrupt

Seth Hochman · 1:32 AM

If you want to find your own island and take care of your own security, medical care, education, roads, etc. than you can pay no taxes. You may be wiped out by marauding pirates or a big hurricane but otherwise you'll pay taxes in any country and le

Seth Hochman · 1:33 AM

less in the US than just about anywhere

Seth Hochman · 1:33 AM

Just like living in a homeowners association: you cannot take all of the benefits and expect others to pick up the tab

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:34 AM

Well, I did some research and it seems like a huge % of our taxes goes towards paying interest to The Federal Reserve. Then I found out The Federal Reserve is actually a PRIVATE, FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION. THIS is why we pay such high taxes. You support

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:34 AM

this?

Seth Hochman · 1:35 AM

Actually about one-third of taxes go towards the military, and don't get me wrong, I support the troops what I cannot support is the huge bureaucracy that our military-industrial complex is

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

so you're saying you wnat to reign in military spending? Why, that fits perfectly with my ideology, so I guess I'll have to agree with you!!!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“we've spent 1.5 trillion on iraq and afghanistan”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“we haven't even touched that in the bailout.”

Seth Hochman · 1:37 AM

We spend nearly $300 billion, yes billion with a b, dollars a year on money that is just wasted by defense contractors (Lockheed, Boeing, etc.) That is more money than is spent on welfare, food stamps, and unemployment combined

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“http://www.businessinsider.com/10-things-that-every-american-should-know-about-the-federal-reserve-2012-2”

Seth Hochman · 1:37 AM

Well than you're not a Tea Partier

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

I am a Tea Partier capable of critical thinking!

Seth Hochman · 1:38 AM

Most Tea partiers want to increase defense spending, even though we spend more than the next 15 countries combined. We have Welfare for Warfare!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

Eliminate the Federal Reserve! Cut government spending across the board! Lower taxes!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

Those are the co-opted, brainwashed Tea Partiers.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:38 AM

I'm with the smart Tea Partiers! (Hey - where is everybody?)

Seth Hochman · 1:39 AM

We're stationed in over 130 countries throughout the World, and Europe has over 150,000 US troops and doesn't even have to defend themselves since the American taxpayer is on the hook for it

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

I'll agree to cut military spending if you agree to eliminate the Fed.

Seth Hochman · 1:39 AM

If you're about cutting waste why would you not want to cut that egregious waste? Doesn't make sense

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

and the IRS!

Seth Hochman · 1:40 AM

Why end the Fed, it has a necessary role and just about every modern country has a central bank

Seth Hochman · 1:40 AM

It was instrumental in warding off a Great Depression in 2008

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

violates capitalism, for one

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

I'm for the US Treasury managing the money supply - not a private bank

Seth Hochman · 1:40 AM

than every country must be violating capitalism than...not sure how it would violate capitalism

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

because it violates the forces of supply and demand and creates a false equilibrium tha6t cannot hold

Seth Hochman · 1:41 AM

Actually FDR started it to help prevent another Great Depression

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

actually there's a far more sinister history than that

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

topic for another Tawk

Seth Hochman · 1:42 AM

I'm certainly not defending all of its actions but it serves a vital role in protecting against collapses and inflation

Seth Hochman · 1:42 AM

Essentially a buffer and insurer for the markets

Seth Hochman · 1:43 AM

And let me ask you something..

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

All right, Mr. Lefty Smartypants. You don't like my suggestion of shrinking government. How do you think we fix this mess?

Seth Hochman · 1:44 AM

You say you want to cut govt spending and waste yet the Tea Party defends govt handouts to the richest oil companies on planet Earth and handouts to huge agribusinesses such as conagra and kellogs

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

Again, those are the co-opted and brainwashed Tea Partiers. I am the Tea Partier capable of critical thought, and I realize ALL those examples are the OPPOSITE of what I stand for.

Seth Hochman · 1:45 AM

How could you be for this....isn't that incredible hypocrisy when you say poor people or people who just lost their job through no fault of their own should fend for themselves?

Seth Hochman · 1:45 AM

I'm not sure you've had any Tea

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

(Wouldn't it be nice if I were real?)

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:46 AM

All right Seth - the Constitution is yours. What should we do with it?

Seth Hochman · 1:46 AM

Essentially you want to be the Reverse Robin Hood!

Seth Hochman · 1:47 AM

Give money to billionaires, corporate welfare, and welfare for warfare while putting the screws to everyone else

Seth Hochman · 1:47 AM

Thanks....

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

Not me - those are the dumb ones. So how do we fix The Constitution?

Seth Hochman · 1:48 AM

Our govt is so out of control and corrupt that no one, not Washington, Jefferson or Lincoln could fix things as they stand in the current system so we need some changes

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

Reagan could

Seth Hochman · 1:49 AM

First congress and the Senate should be limited to two terms or eight years max. Senators should've four years terms and the same for congressmen. Congress was meant to be a rest stop not free parking.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

I'm cool with that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“how do you fix it? tear it up and start again”

Seth Hochman · 1:49 AM

This would be the 28th Amendment, and Washington himself said that politician was not to be a career title. After all he could

Seth Hochman · 1:50 AM

have stayed on as President indefinitely but wanted new people and new ideas to take over

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

Yeah, man - we ditched a King in '76.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:50 AM

1776

Seth Hochman · 1:50 AM

Amendment 29- All elections publicly funded

Seth Hochman · 1:51 AM

you cannot have a Democracy when you've billionaires and big business bankrolling elections

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:51 AM

Yes - get money out of politics so the corrupt government can't be bought!

Seth Hochman · 1:51 AM

No gifts, trips, junkets, private meetings, not even a Christmas card, just like other countries that have true Democracies

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

I think that part might already be in the Constitution, it's just benignly ignored.

Seth Hochman · 1:52 AM

The biggest problem is that politicians call them special interest and therein lies the problem that they are special and we are not

Seth Hochman · 1:53 AM

We need public servants not self-servants in Washington and that is what is needed to make it a democracy again

Seth Hochman · 1:53 AM

I wish it was in there, at least clearly stated

Seth Hochman · 1:53 AM

30- Supreme court justices get eight years as well

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

YES!!!!

Seth Hochman · 1:54 AM

elected by other judges not by a naturally partisan President

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

Hate the lifetime appointments! SOOOOOO corrupt!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

yes, I'm digging it all!

Seth Hochman · 1:54 AM

and they if they are ever caught in private meetings, or dealing with the very people they're supposed to rule on, they're terminated

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

you mean killed? I LOVE IT!!!

Seth Hochman · 1:55 AM

31- No gerrymandering allowed...

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

how about ditching the Senate?

Seth Hochman · 1:55 AM

thanks...you cannot have politicians controlling the way they get elected nor can they determine their own salary or benefits

Seth Hochman · 1:55 AM

an inherent conflict on interest

Seth Hochman · 1:56 AM

32- No filibuster, 50 votes passes

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:56 AM

OK -now you're just being cruel.

Seth Hochman · 1:56 AM

33- Referendum allowed by citizens

Seth Hochman · 1:57 AM

to get control of the govt back to the people, up to three issues can be voted on in an election cycle with simple 2/3 majority passing laws

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

well it's not that simple - what if there's a vote to violate civil rights of a particular race?

Seth Hochman · 1:58 AM

lol, 33- Funding granted for third parties, with a minimum of three parties to be involved

Seth Hochman · 1:58 AM

Supreme

Seth Hochman · 1:58 AM

Court would overrule it

Seth Hochman · 1:58 AM

this way people can vote on things when politicians are simply not doing their jobs

Seth Hochman · 2:00 AM

The system itself is flawed and there is no way the Founding Fathers in their infinite wisdom could have foresaw such dramatic changes to the country and society

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

All right Seth - I have to say - I don't see how any rational person on either side of the spectrumn could object to those ammendments

Seth Hochman · 2:00 AM

Thank you....unfortunately there always seems to be another side no matter how legitimate their issues are

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:00 AM

I think we will have another Tawk about these proposed Constitutional Ammendments. In the meantime, I'm going to revert back to my actual self.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

Thanks so much for doing this Seth - I had a blast!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“its when they stop sending the valentines cards you gotta worry”

Seth Hochman · 2:01 AM

Same here!

Seth Hochman · 2:01 AM

Good chat with intriguing questions!

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:01 AM

And if you're arriving at the Tawk after the fact, hit the button "Top" in the upper left corner.

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:02 AM

LEFT AND RIGHT WANT THE SAME THING

Seth Hochman · 2:02 AM

Just two very different ways of getting there

Forum · 35

Forum· 35 comments

23 visitors

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 12:00 AM

*pokes head round door*.... O.O oh my

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:00 AM

he no here!

Blake IanMay 17, 2013, 1:04 AM★ Spotlighted

Mission Impossible

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:06 AM★ Spotlighted

do you turn into a pumpkin at the end too?

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:10 AM

if the money was lost by the government - or whoever it was - and then you give money to them to pay them off,doesnt it just mean the money never really goes anywhere? it sounds like a big money circle.

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:10 AM

dam i wish i could find the words i need!

Rachael WorkmanMay 17, 2013, 1:11 AM★ Spotlighted

what happens in vegas stays in vegas

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:12 AM

exactly Rachael

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:13 AM

oh no...he said corn.....

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:18 AM★ Spotlighted

hard for a government to protect against being scammed,robbed and taken advantage of when they are also doing it too

Rachael WorkmanMay 17, 2013, 1:24 AM★ Spotlighted

I'd give the government half my money out of every paycheck if I felt they were doing a good job with their public service programs. But we have old bridges, shitty schools and paper thin safety net programs... where's it goin?

Trey WilliamsonMay 17, 2013, 1:25 AM★ Spotlighted

Hahah hire atheists to run a church! Great analogy Seth!

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:25 AM

too high for who,Jordan? its not high enough for the rich or corporations and too high for us mere mortals

Rachael WorkmanMay 17, 2013, 1:30 AM

Jordan i'd argue that a far bigger portion goes to our efforts in Afghanistan than to the crooks at home.

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:31 AM

mmm i doubt that rachael

Rachael WorkmanMay 17, 2013, 1:33 AM★ Spotlighted

we've spent 1.5 trillion on iraq and afghanistan

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:33 AM

that we know of

Rachael WorkmanMay 17, 2013, 1:35 AM★ Spotlighted

we haven't even touched that in the bailout.

Blake IanMay 17, 2013, 1:36 AM★ Spotlighted

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-things-that-every-american-should-know-about-the-federal-reserve-2012-2

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:38 AM

give everyone chocolate money - then wait for a very sunny day.

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:39 AM

no such thing as a smart tea partier

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:39 AM

if there was,they'd all be one

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:41 AM

jordan,you want a corrupt group managing and handing out money? lol good one....

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:46 AM

i knew it!! Jordan is a hologram!!! :-O

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:47 AM★ Spotlighted

how do you fix it? tear it up and start again

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:50 AM

new people yes..new ideas? no

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:51 AM

TAKE MONEY OUT OF ELECTIONS,DAM IT!!

Rachael WorkmanMay 17, 2013, 1:52 AM

well no christmas card is just plain rude.

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:53 AM★ Spotlighted

its when they stop sending the valentines cards you gotta worry

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:55 AM

no gerrymandering? what he do now?

Lucy DyerMay 17, 2013, 1:59 AM

can you have an amendment that limits how dunkin donuts each policeman can have in one day?

Andrei BermanMay 17, 2013, 2:30 AM

ugh sorry i got here so late. is this convo still going on?

Jonathan GoldsteinMay 18, 2013, 1:28 AM

Buenos noches

Jonathan GoldsteinMay 18, 2013, 1:30 AM

Is thing on?

Jonathan GoldsteinMay 18, 2013, 1:33 AM

Feel like I'm in a glass case....can't figure this thing out. Feelingoldv