Jordan Birnbaum

Host

Why In The World Aren't People More Angry?!

May 23, 2013·22 visitors

Craig Unger

Cohost

Stage· 142 messages

May 23, 2013

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

Mr. Unger I presume?

Craig Unger · 1:00 AM

Yes

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:00 AM

Hi Craig. It is an honor and a pleasure to have you. The depth and impact of your work is so overwhelming, that this Tawk could continue for weeks. But I’m going to try to cover quite a bit in the hour we have.

Craig Unger · 1:00 AM

Great. Let's start

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

I’d love to start by summarizing a few of your earlier books, and then asking you to point out anything important I missed. Sound good?

Craig Unger · 1:01 AM

Yes

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

House of Bush, House of Saud – What began as an op-ed piece about the Saudi nationals who were allowed to leave the country immediately after 9/11 resulted in an investigation that revealed

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

30 years of past dealings between the Bush family and the Saudi Royal Family that laid the very foundation for the modern wars in which we are now ensconced.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:01 AM

that's it.

Craig Unger · 1:02 AM

Right. In this case, and in all my books, I try to get at the unseen mechanisms of power which are often very obscure.

Craig Unger · 1:02 AM

In this case, very few people knew about the Carlyle

Craig Unger · 1:03 AM

Group, about the business relationships between the Bushes and the Saudis and that the Bush family was actually partners with some members of the bin Laden family.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:03 AM

It also was featured very prominently in Farenheit 9/11

Craig Unger · 1:04 AM

Right. (my one onscreen role, by the way)

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

you're a natural, man

Craig Unger · 1:04 AM

My salary was in the mid two figures

Craig Unger · 1:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“who's fault is it that so few people knew/know about those ties?”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:04 AM

LOL - OK -nThe Fall of the House of Bush – philosophical rifts emerged in the Bush inner circle, allowing radical ideologues to wrest control of the W. White House – to the dismay of his father –

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:05 AM

Leading directly to the ill-suited marriage of neo-cons and the religious right.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Bruce Hauptman

“Why would anyone be surprised about the ause of power between the leader of the free world and an oil rich county..”

Craig Unger · 1:06 AM

True. W was very different than his father in many ways and started out appointing some of his fathers biggest enemies--Rumsfeld, Cheney, and the neocons. That began even before W took office. W knew nothing about foreign policy and his father sent

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“A mixed marriage made in Hell.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:06 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Shapiro

“To what degree was the Project for a New American Century connected to the Carlyle Group? Was PNAC merely a political arm of the CG?”

Craig Unger · 1:06 AM

Scowcroft down to teahc him, but the neocons got there first

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:07 AM

care to answer Michael's question?

Craig Unger · 1:08 AM

To Michael, the Carlyle Group was a private equity group that is interested in making money. It allowed members of the House of Bush to cash in on their access to power. PNAC had no direct relationship to them. There may have been one or two people w

Craig Unger · 1:08 AM

who overlapped, but remember Bush senior was NOT a neocon. Very different from his son's relationship to them.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:09 AM

Who knew that there could be a "good" Bush

Craig Unger · 1:10 AM

It's all relative, I guess. Bush senior's greatest moment, I think was NOT marching on Baghdad during the first Gulf War. And his national security adviser, Brent Scowcroft was one of his very best appointments and did everything he could later on,

Craig Unger · 1:10 AM

during W's administration, to stop the Iraq War. Failed, of course.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

OK -would you say that The Fall of the House of Bush and American Armageddon provide a thorough view into the emergence of ne-cons and religious right, and the long-term negative implications for the country?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Bush 41 was kind of the old school corporate Republican, whereas his son was the beginning of the hard right, evangelical Tea Party”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:11 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Shapiro

“Thanks Craig ... though it seems their ambitions did overlap.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:12 AM

★ Spotlighted from Bruce Hauptman

“Bush jr isn't a bad person hes incompetent”

Craig Unger · 1:12 AM

I hope so. I think the joining together of the neocons and the Christian Right was one of those historic convergences in which the ideology of the neocons meshed perfectly with the theology of the Christian Right and led us on an historic turn to the

Craig Unger · 1:12 AM

right that has been very costly.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

OK - this leads us to your latest, which ius a tour de force

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:13 AM

Boss Rove is probably the scariest collection of stories I have ever heard

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:14 AM

★ Spotlighted from Dina Fein

“Bruce how do you know that?”

Craig Unger · 1:14 AM

Thanks, I guess. To the point of the title of this Tawk, I think one of the reasons people are not more angry is that few people really know about these unseen mechanism of power I try to uncover. One example: I remember years ago laughing at a Sein

Craig Unger · 1:15 AM

Seinfeld episode where Kramer tries to collect millions cause he spilled some hot coffee. You can see it here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoINTDFosCY

Craig Unger · 1:16 AM

Very funny. I didn't realize that this war against trial lawyers, this war for tort reform was really drummed up by Karl Rove. He went to big pharma, big tobacco and said we can save you billions if you just contribute to our PACs. That became a cash

Craig Unger · 1:16 AM

cow for the GOP{

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:17 AM

Well the rise to poower is certainly Machiavellian, but there are 3 specific cases I think bear mentioning.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:18 AM

The first is SmarTech, which seemingly stole Ohio , and thus the election from 2004, AND

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:18 AM

destroyed subpoenad evidence that helped him escape prosecution. Is that right?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“If you drop the Neo from NEO-con the truth is revealed”

Craig Unger · 1:19 AM

Right. Covering this kind of stuff is very difficult as the stakes are very high, it is complex, and one tends to get labeled as a conspiratorialist. But it is true that all the evidence kept disappearing so proving it beyond a shadow of a doubt is

Craig Unger · 1:19 AM

impossible.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

Another case you examine is the Valerie Plame case, made into the film Fair Game, by which Rove outs a CIA opoerative as a foirm of petty retribution

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“and yet Rove is on record saying he's never heard of SmarTech...”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:20 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Why do we always learn of these travesties after it's too late to do anything but get mad and paranoid?”

Craig Unger · 1:21 AM

Yes, of the three things you are talking about, this got the most coverage because of the movie and Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame.But there's no question Rove played a key role in the leaking of her name and he got off only because at the last minute

Craig Unger · 1:21 AM

he changed his grand jury testimony after a Time Magazine reporter told Rove's lawyer they knew he had lied

Craig Unger · 1:22 AM

In this case, the so-called liberal press actually save Rove from going to jail.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Shapiro

“Rick, it wasn't really too late ... Greg Palast was covering the election "peculiarities" in 2000 and 2004, including Diebold. It's not that we learn about them too late, it's that there isn't enough political will to do anything about them.”

Craig Unger · 1:23 AM

To Rachael, yes Rove told me(on tape) he had never heard of Smartech. But the funder of it were Mercer Reynolds(finance chair of the GOP who raised $250 million for Bush) and his partner, Bill Dewitt

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:23 AM

OK - I think people need to know what is happening and should explore these specific cases. But one in particular demands our immediate and forceful attention. Don Siegelman. Can you explain what's happening.

Craig Unger · 1:24 AM

I think one issue I hear in these comments is that the coverage--the most critical coverage--is often marginalized. One thing I think people don't realizing about the press is that a lot of mainstream reporters and outfits--CNN, the Times, etc-- need

Craig Unger · 1:25 AM

access to people like Rove, Cheney, etc. But that access compromises them. Rove will gladly be a source to the Times, etc--but only if those reporters are doing his bidding.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

There is clearly an unholy alliance that subjugates the public good

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:25 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“Maybe ignorance truly is bliss.”

Craig Unger · 1:26 AM

Siegelman's case is a true travesty of justice. Here you see how Rove took over key elements of hte judiciary and used it as a political weapon.

Craig Unger · 1:27 AM

The real story behind the US Attorney scandal, to me, was not that 7 or 8 US Attorneys were fired for not doing the GOP's bidding.The real story was what about the other US Attys? What were they doing? And the answer is that they were using their

Craig Unger · 1:28 AM

prosecutorial power to prosecute Democrats. Few people realized it, because if we read a headline that the mayor of Honolulu is indicted, or the mayor of Miami, or six months later the mayor of another city, we kind of shrug our shoulders. But put it

Craig Unger · 1:28 AM

all together and you see that 7 out of 8 of the prosecutions are against Democrats.

Craig Unger · 1:29 AM

The Siegelman case was astonishing because Bill Canary, an close colleague ofe

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:29 AM

and they are being prosecuted for what is common practice for everyone else

Craig Unger · 1:30 AM

of Rove's, was running all the big GOP candidates in Alabama including Bob Riley, the Republican running against Siegelman.So Bush/Rove got Canary's wife, Leura Canary, appointed to be US Attty. That meant, come election time, Leura could indict the

Craig Unger · 1:31 AM

Democrat, Siegelman, so her husband's canddiate could win. In the end, Siegelman was sentenced to 7 years for bribery when he is clearly innocent. More than 100 state attorneys general, many of them Republicans, hav e called for his release. But Rove

Craig Unger · 1:31 AM

and his associates have such a tight hold on the justice system in Alabama, that he hasn't been released. And Obama has NOT gone to bat for Siegeleman. He should be pardoned.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

It is unbelievably scary that we are all allowing a man we know to be innocent to go to prison.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

Here is a petition you can sign:http://www.donsiegelman.org/

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“it's straight outta House of Cards :-/”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:32 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“I don't mind knowing, but I hate feeling helpless.”

Craig Unger · 1:33 AM

Right. To be clearer, Siegelman took zero dollars himself, but he allowed a contributed to his state lottery program to reform education to get an unpaid board position in the state government. If that's bribery, President Bush did similar things

Craig Unger · 1:33 AM

with more than 100 contributors

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:33 AM

It is such overt corruption. Has corruption always been this bad? Are we just learning more about it now?

Craig Unger · 1:34 AM

I'm not sure, but I think we devise more and more arcane ways of getting around the laws

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:34 AM

So, I want to take a second to express my admiration.

Craig Unger · 1:34 AM

Thanks. I guess

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:35 AM

You have taken on the worst and scariest people in the world int he name of integrity, and that makes you an American hero.

Craig Unger · 1:35 AM

Unfortunately, there are very few places left that support this kind of journalism. One thing, of course,

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:36 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“9/11 provide an excuse to circumvent so many laws--it's shameful that people would capitalize on it and use it as a springboard for un-American things”

Craig Unger · 1:36 AM

is that the entire industry is falling apart because of the Internet. But there is also this dependency on access to the Rove's and Cheney's of the world. One of the worst moments in journalism during the Bush administration was when Rove was dancing

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:37 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“so what happens when efforts like yours get marginalized when billionaires with political interests start backing media properties? a la Koch and PBS?”

Craig Unger · 1:37 AM

with NBC's Washington bureau chief at the Gridiron Club(I believe) dinner. My feeling is, if you are dancing with Rove, you are not asking the tough question

Craig Unger · 1:38 AM

Right, Rachael. There's a good piece by Jane Mayer on that in the New Yorker this week. And we have the Kochs possibly taking over the LA Times and Chicago Tribune. With the demise of print, the only people who will come to its rescue are likely to

Craig Unger · 1:38 AM

be billionaires with their own agendas.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

do you see a way out?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:39 AM

is there a path to allow investigative and unbiased reporting to exist?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:40 AM

Maybe here?

Craig Unger · 1:40 AM

I'm not sure. I think the transition from print to the Internet is still in its early stages and I hope some kind of citizen journalism will emerge. That new platforms, possibly like Tawk, and other things tied to social media may allow a more r

Craig Unger · 1:40 AM

rigorous, structured form of citizen journalism to emerge. But it will take years

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:41 AM

WEell, you should mentor

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:42 AM

All right - so the next question is "What does this do to you?" How do these investigations affect your view of humanity?

Craig Unger · 1:42 AM

I'd be delighted to.

Craig Unger · 1:43 AM

As to my view of humanity, I don't know. I confess to an odd kind of naivete, that when I investigate someone like Rove I see he does one horrible thing, and then another, and yet i'm continually amazed. He really is quite clever. One of the few

Craig Unger · 1:43 AM

people in public life who is likely underestimated.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:43 AM

I hope not anymore!

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:44 AM

So let's finally get to the title of this Tawk. Why in the world aren't people more angry?!

Craig Unger · 1:44 AM

One of my sources told me, you can put a stake through his heart, a bullet in his head, douse him in kerosene and set him on fire--but he'll be back.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

that makes you a vampire hunter

Craig Unger · 1:45 AM

It really is very hard for people to find all this stuff out. Most of your audience may already have ideas about Rove. But few know exactly how his power works and you can't fight him if you don't how.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Adam Kizner

“There are a lot of things I don't do, but should, purely because of my own laziness. Never underestimate the power of inertia. I wish this weren't the case. Don't get me wrong, I am very angry, just more lazy than angry, I guess.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:46 AM

I have to admit to that feeling too, Adam. I kind iof resent having to spend my energy fighting the bad guys in my mind.

Craig Unger · 1:46 AM

Adam is right, but it is also very difficult to fight some of this stuff. Look at the gun control bill. The Dems couldn't pass it in the Senate when they controlled it, and it had nearly 90 percent public support. That encourages cynicism and lazines

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

Did Ghandi lay out the path we will ultimately have to take?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

non-violent protests and national days of strikes?

Craig Unger · 1:47 AM

Seth has a good point. The election was devasting to Rove and he humiliated himself on Fox on Election Night. It will be interesting to see if the big money people still get behind him. Also, he is at war with the Tea Party.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:47 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kenna James

“My feeling is that most people aren't more "angry" because they are too buys living in "fear" and just go along with what they're told and punished...”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Shapiro

“Don't beat yourself up, Adam. If there were any semblance of a functional Left in the country, we'd have some way to usefully express our opposition, but because it's been dismantled over the past forty odd years, there is no organization through”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:48 AM

Craig - do you think the left has been co-opted, leaving us without a true advocate?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Jacob Griesmer

“i think people would be more angry if they knew the US has done covert action (killed people) in nearly 100 nations since WWII. If they knew we trained and backed dictators in some of the world's most brutal torture techniques copied from nazis.”

Craig Unger · 1:49 AM

I don't know that there is real left in this country in the sense of a movement-- at least not in the way there was in the Sixties. And labor has been sort of dismantled. But the one bright spot is that the GOP is really bitterly divided and has

Craig Unger · 1:50 AM

-powerful demographic movement in terms of the growth of Hispanic going against it. So it may well become a real minority party.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:51 AM

But it was Clinton who repealed Glass Steagal, passed the Telecommunications Act and signed NAFTA. It doesn't seem to matter if the Left wins.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

and it's eric holder who isn't overturning the siegelman conviction

Craig Unger · 1:52 AM

I think it more complicated than that. If Gore had taken office, I think there would have been no Iraq War, the economy would be in better shape. Clinton later said Glass Steagel should have been repealed.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Agreed with you Craig: let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“The old Left is now old. It's up to the youth to get off their asses and put themselves on the line.”

Craig Unger · 1:53 AM

You're so right about Eric Holder. I think the Obama Justice Dept has utterly failed to roll back the damage wrought by Rove. Recently, Obama appointed William Pryor to the US Sentencing Commission. He's one of Rove's pals and was the Atty Gen of Ala

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Kenna James

“Confusion....Diversion...and Stupifying the governed may be well thought out plans of the government as well - hard to get angry when you're confused...lol”

Craig Unger · 1:53 AM

who indicted Siegelman. What is Obama doing that?

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Michael Shapiro

“The good news is, it won't last. Sandy and the Oklahoma tornado are harbingers of the future, and Republicanism cannot withstand the anger of the dispossessed.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

All right - we're closing in on the end, and I'd like to spread a bit of optimism.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:54 AM

so I'm going to ask you and the audience to tell me one reason to be optimistic about the future.

Craig Unger · 1:55 AM

Well, I might try to go with citizen journalism and the Internet, though I really don't think that has emerged. That's one thing. Also, as I said, the GOP has huge, huge probs. The war between the Tea Party and the moderates is one thing, and the

Craig Unger · 1:55 AM

rise of the Hispanics as a powerful liberal voting bloc.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Adam Kizner

“Cooler iPhones?”

Craig Unger · 1:56 AM

Yes, cooler phones.

Craig Unger · 1:57 AM

But remember those iPhones and Google glasses will be making billions by invading your privacy. Sorry, Jordan Not optimistic, was that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

Craig - I just can't thank you enough, both for doing this Tawk and for the work you have done on behalf of all of us.

Craig Unger · 1:57 AM

You're very welcome. I enjoyed it. And it is honing my typing skills.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

And I forgive you for reminding me about the sweat shop workers. We do need to be more cognizant of that.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rick Rosner

“We're still free to act - if we'll pay the price.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:57 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“As long as the Tea party controls the Republican party, it will be very difficult for them to elect credible candidates”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:58 AM

Audience - you were amazing

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Adam Kizner

“Thanks Craig. Keep up the patriotic work.”

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:58 AM

I'll bet the average IQ in this room would put MENSA to shame.

Jordan Birnbaum · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Bruce Hauptman

“The future looks bright politically because the repubs are reeling. Now the dems have to grow a pair and take advantage of the oppty”

Jordan Birnbaum · 2:21 AM

If you are coming after the fact, you should hit the "top" button in the upper left corner to pick up thye discussion from the beginning.

Forum · 93

Forum· 93 comments

22 visitors

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 12:56 AM

This Tawk hasn't even started and I'm already angry.

trey pennaMay 23, 2013, 1:00 AM

i am as mad as hell and i am not going to take it

Rachael WorkmanMay 23, 2013, 1:03 AM★ Spotlighted

who's fault is it that so few people knew/know about those ties?

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:05 AM★ Spotlighted

Why would anyone be surprised about the ause of power between the leader of the free world and an oil rich county..

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:05 AM★ Spotlighted

A mixed marriage made in Hell.

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:06 AM★ Spotlighted

To what degree was the Project for a New American Century connected to the Carlyle Group? Was PNAC merely a political arm of the CG?

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:09 AM★ Spotlighted

Thanks Craig ... though it seems their ambitions did overlap.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:09 AM

Relatively speaking. Still a liar.

Jeff GrobeMay 23, 2013, 1:09 AM

hi mom

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:10 AM★ Spotlighted

Bush 41 was kind of the old school corporate Republican, whereas his son was the beginning of the hard right, evangelical Tea Party

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:10 AM

lol isn't that an oxymoron Jordan

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:12 AM

I'm confused by that question.

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:12 AM★ Spotlighted

Bush jr isn't a bad person hes incompetent

Dina FeinMay 23, 2013, 1:12 AM★ Spotlighted

Bruce how do you know that?

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:12 AM

But if you believe Naomi Klein's "shock doctrine" theory, the evisceration of the American economy was calculated, just as it was first in South America, then Poland and Russia.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:13 AM

to the dark side . . .

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:13 AM

Interesting that over 5,000 US soldiers died in Iraq, and no WMD was found but there was no investigation yet we have an investigation when three people died from an embassy attack

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:13 AM

By listening to him and watching him for 8 years

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:14 AM★ Spotlighted

If you drop the Neo from NEO-con the truth is revealed

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:14 AM

Incompetence in the Presidency is a catastrophe for us all.

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:15 AM

The difference between Iraq and Benghazi is that the democrats weren't looking for a scandal to bring bush down

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:18 AM

I disagree. I know for a fact the people are angry about a lot of things but the feel powerless too do anything

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:18 AM

Clinton dropped the tort reform push by Newt Gingrich and the Republicans in the 90's

Rachael WorkmanMay 23, 2013, 1:19 AM★ Spotlighted

and yet Rove is on record saying he's never heard of SmarTech...

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:19 AM★ Spotlighted

Why do we always learn of these travesties after it's too late to do anything but get mad and paranoid?

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:20 AM

Diebold, which makes a lot of the voting machines, was a big Dubya contributor

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:22 AM★ Spotlighted

Rick, it wasn't really too late ... Greg Palast was covering the election "peculiarities" in 2000 and 2004, including Diebold. It's not that we learn about them too late, it's that there isn't enough political will to do anything about them.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:24 AM★ Spotlighted

Maybe ignorance truly is bliss.

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:25 AM

Michael very well said

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:25 AM

Political will, time, money energy

Rachael WorkmanMay 23, 2013, 1:26 AM

how do you handle that as a journalist?

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:26 AM

Freedom is hard work

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:26 AM

Another problem is the corporate controlled media, which is controlled by just a handful of companies. And in order to raise ad revenue, will often sell its soul to the devil

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:29 AM

The mayor of Honolulu was indicted? I don't recall that.

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:29 AM

Vbut when people feel truly threatened they respond. Look at the 2012 elections voter suppression. So many people turned out and stayed on line even after the election was called, the whole suppression thing bacfired

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:30 AM

I know that there has been a lot said about the IRS scandal on investigating the Tea Party using charities to siphon off political donations but it pales in comparison to Bush using the Dept of Homeland Sec. to investigate democratic groups seeking

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:30 AM

an end to the war

Rachael WorkmanMay 23, 2013, 1:31 AM★ Spotlighted

it's straight outta House of Cards :-/

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:32 AM★ Spotlighted

I don't mind knowing, but I hate feeling helpless.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:33 AM

that helpless feeling made the Weathermen spring form the loins of the SDS.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:34 AM

from

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:35 AM

It does - Bravo.

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:36 AM

One of the reasons the sixties were a perfect time for demonstrations was that all of the protestors were students.at age 18 19 20 you have no responsibilities and plenty of time

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:36 AM★ Spotlighted

9/11 provide an excuse to circumvent so many laws--it's shameful that people would capitalize on it and use it as a springboard for un-American things

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:36 AM

Bullshit, Bruce. the threat if death in Vietnam was sufficient motivation.

Rachael WorkmanMay 23, 2013, 1:36 AM★ Spotlighted

so what happens when efforts like yours get marginalized when billionaires with political interests start backing media properties? a la Koch and PBS?

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:37 AM

That's usually the demographic that starts all rebellion. Stu

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:37 AM

Students and poor people that have nothing to lose

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:38 AM

except freedom

Rachael WorkmanMay 23, 2013, 1:39 AM

i read it this afternoon, so it's fresh on the brain.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:40 AM

the reporting can exist - if the audience is interested.

Jacob GriesmerMay 23, 2013, 1:43 AM

http://open.salon.com/blog/karuna35/2011/09/22/opinion_why_the_du_debate_is_a_capstone_matter

Jacob GriesmerMay 23, 2013, 1:43 AM

https://www.facebook.com/notes/jacob-griesmer/need-2-know-info/10151374915533338

Adam KiznerMay 23, 2013, 1:44 AM★ Spotlighted

There are a lot of things I don't do, but should, purely because of my own laziness. Never underestimate the power of inertia. I wish this weren't the case. Don't get me wrong, I am very angry, just more lazy than angry, I guess.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:45 AM

He's been watching too many zombie movies.

Jacob GriesmerMay 23, 2013, 1:45 AM★ Spotlighted

i think people would be more angry if they knew the US has done covert action (killed people) in nearly 100 nations since WWII. If they knew we trained and backed dictators in some of the world's most brutal torture techniques copied from nazis.

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:45 AM

Not sure how talented he is...he lost nearly every election he was supporting and had nearly a half a billion to spend on negative ads against his opponents, even A-Rod had a higher batting average than Rove

Kenna JamesMay 23, 2013, 1:46 AM★ Spotlighted

My feeling is that most people aren't more "angry" because they are too buys living in "fear" and just go along with what they're told and punished...

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:46 AM★ Spotlighted

Don't beat yourself up, Adam. If there were any semblance of a functional Left in the country, we'd have some way to usefully express our opposition, but because it's been dismantled over the past forty odd years, there is no organization through

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:46 AM

When things strike closer to home, anger will overcome laziness . . .

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:46 AM

which to do it.'

Kenna JamesMay 23, 2013, 1:47 AM

If they stand out...or Up~ and make noise.

Jacob GriesmerMay 23, 2013, 1:47 AM

if they knew we were trying to take over the world (full-spectrum dominance) and are committing the worst crime in history against humanity--depleted uranium use in military affairs.

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:47 AM

It does support that but the US senate is the only govt body where 54% is not a majority--we can't forget that

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:48 AM

Get smacked in the head with a baton - goodbye laziness!

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:49 AM

Well let's not forget that corporations run the Republican party and the last thing big business and billionaires want to do is support a guy with the opposite of the Midas touch and watch their money drain away

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:49 AM

I also think that people are willfully ignoring what people like Chomsky, Zinn and Klein have been saying because they either can't accept it or do accept it as the wages of Empire.

Adam KiznerMay 23, 2013, 1:49 AM

Yes, sometimes I sit back and wonder why people aren't rioting in the streets, but then I look at myself comfortable and on the couch and get more depressed.

Kenna JamesMay 23, 2013, 1:49 AM★ Spotlighted

Confusion....Diversion...and Stupifying the governed may be well thought out plans of the government as well - hard to get angry when you're confused...lol

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:51 AM★ Spotlighted

The old Left is now old. It's up to the youth to get off their asses and put themselves on the line.

Adam KiznerMay 23, 2013, 1:51 AM

Just different corporate interests.

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:51 AM

The only reason the Tea Party hasn't been dismantled yet is because of Citizens United, where billionaires can bankroll candidates with unlimited funds. If the election laws were the same as 2008, I think the Tea party would be non-existent now

Adam KiznerMay 23, 2013, 1:52 AM

Once more of the youth is unemployed and paying student loans, they'll get organized. I hope.

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:52 AM★ Spotlighted

Agreed with you Craig: let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:53 AM★ Spotlighted

The good news is, it won't last. Sandy and the Oklahoma tornado are harbingers of the future, and Republicanism cannot withstand the anger of the dispossessed.

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:53 AM

At least for very long.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:53 AM

My suggestion, to start: care about something, passionately. Not just your BMW and accounts.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:54 AM

It feels good to act.

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:54 AM

Agreed, Obama is a disappointment in many ways but compared to Dubya he is a knight in shining armor

Rachael WorkmanMay 23, 2013, 1:55 AM

because good peeps outnumber the shmucks, no matter how many ways you slice it.

Michael ShapiroMay 23, 2013, 1:55 AM

And, Adam, people WILL be rioting in the streets like they are in Europe, when unemployment hits 25% while enduring draconian austerity measures.

Adam KiznerMay 23, 2013, 1:55 AM★ Spotlighted

Cooler iPhones?

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:55 AM

But the schmucks make more noise.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:56 AM★ Spotlighted

We're still free to act - if we'll pay the price.

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:56 AM★ Spotlighted

As long as the Tea party controls the Republican party, it will be very difficult for them to elect credible candidates

Adam KiznerMay 23, 2013, 1:57 AM★ Spotlighted

Thanks Craig. Keep up the patriotic work.

Rick RosnerMay 23, 2013, 1:57 AM

thanks, but now I'm angry again.

Seth HochmanMay 23, 2013, 1:58 AM

Buenos noches

Bruce HauptmanMay 23, 2013, 1:58 AM★ Spotlighted

The future looks bright politically because the repubs are reeling. Now the dems have to grow a pair and take advantage of the oppty

Blake IanMay 24, 2013, 6:03 AM

The system is broken. That is all.

Rodrigo A. BartelsJun 1, 2013, 4:34 PM

Test 2

Rodrigo A. BartelsJun 5, 2013, 5:23 PM

Test

Rodrigo A. BartelsJun 5, 2013, 5:23 PM

Test