Lee Camp

Host

Will Technology Save Or Enslave Us?

Dec 19, 2013·514 visitors

Eleanor Goldfield

Cohost

Stage· 273 messages

Dec 19, 2013

Comedian/activist Lee Camp and rocker/activist Eleanor Goldfield cover whether technology is going to be the answer to so many of our problems, or could it be the cause. This question will become more and more important in the next few years.

Lee Camp · 7:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tawkers Admin

“Once 25 people gather in the audience, a comment needs at least one LIKE to become visible to the two Hosts and anyone not following them. So LIKE the comments you want everyone to see!”

Lee Camp · 8:00 PM

Hey everybody! Welcome to the Moment of Clarity weekly Tawk. If you haven't met Eleanor, she's the amazing lead singer of Rooftop Revolutionaries. And I am actually a robot Lee Camp has hired to do this Tawk. Nice to meet you.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:00 PM

I knew it. Lee is so lazy these days.

Lee Camp · 8:00 PM

If you haven't used Tawkers before, Eleanor and I cannot see your comments unless they get a thumbs up or two. So if you like someone's comment, you have to click thumbs up.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:01 PM

Are you an evil robot or a nice robot?

Lee Camp · 8:01 PM

That's the question we're here to figure out!

Lee Camp · 8:01 PM

And there's also no cursing in this Tawk except for right fucking now. Okay, that was the only one. ...unless there are others.

Lee Camp · 8:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Aww shit! A robot? No real Lee? Man this technology crap is getting impersonal!”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:01 PM

Apparently there is more cursing

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:02 PM

There's the personal robots that they put into your body to check out arteries and report back. Speaking of technology saving us

Lee Camp · 8:03 PM

Can those turn against you?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:03 PM

Depends on how they feel about your arteries

Lee Camp · 8:03 PM

You know, if you do something douchey and they think "fuck this guy" ?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:04 PM

If so, I say let's let them loose on Capitol Hill

Lee Camp · 8:04 PM

Ha! I wanna throw this out there to audience - technology is increasing exponentially and it **could** bring us to a time when nearly no one *has* to work because robots and other tech can do almost everything. Are we heading to that place, or not?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:04 PM

Wasn't there a woman on a podcast you did saying how awesome implanted chips would be?

Lee Camp · 8:04 PM

Oh yes, I was on with a futurist and she was convinced having a chip in our arm would be a wonderful world of ease

Lee Camp · 8:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Okay can I just say that my 2 year old clearly says fuck and shit all the time cause he's always watching Moment of Clarity...thanks Lee!”

Lee Camp · 8:05 PM

Lisa, you're a terrible mom!! ...And yet the coolest one out there.

Lee Camp · 8:05 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“If we were able to use only robots for work then our current economic system is not going to work”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:05 PM

ha! it already doesn't work mitchell. but yes, it needs an overhaul

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:06 PM

regardless of where technology is headed

Lee Camp · 8:06 PM

@Mitchell - But doesn't our current system seem to be taking all the advancements of technology and using them to enrich the few rather than the many?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:06 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“Technology has always been not much more than a tool, but these days, it's also becoming a destination and a philosophy.”

Lee Camp · 8:07 PM

Yeah, but there's a lot of different directions that philosophy can take

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:07 PM

It's a way of life. There's no way that we can be a part of todays society without technology. Case in point, this tawk

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:07 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“@ Lee - the wealthy have the easiest access to the newest tech, but in general, most people do indeed benefit from technology in direct and indirect ways...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:07 PM

People do and will benefit from technology if powers that be allow it to push through.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:07 PM

This is a huge concern right now.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:08 PM

I've read so many stories about how new inventions and advancements are smashed by corporations that don't want it getting in the way of their profits or extortion

Lee Camp · 8:08 PM

@David - It's not about access. It's about work being done. When tech does work, a job is taken away. Instead of that savings going to the people, it goes to the top. Then the average ppl work harder for less money.

Lee Camp · 8:08 PM

@EG - Like the electric car?

Lee Camp · 8:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Also, most of the progress that we have seen using computers has come during a time when most processes are based on Von Neuman technology. That is changing and soon the amount of memory will matter more than the speed of the processor.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:09 PM

Yes, or carbon capture

Lee Camp · 8:09 PM

★ Spotlighted from Steven Brewer

“Technology can be used to help many people in various ways. But most of the time all I see are apps to make your Facebook better or devices to help your dog talk. It doesn't give much hope for people looking forward.”

Lee Camp · 8:09 PM

Steven - Yeah, that's the problem with our capitalist system, the tech is only concerned with profit.

Lee Camp · 8:10 PM

If there's a way to make everyone healthy that won't gain money for people, then it won't be pushed forward.

Lee Camp · 8:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“Yes, Lee, some jobs do indeed go away. If humanity had a balanced approach, we'd value people for ALL their potential, not just their economic potential.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:10 PM

@Steven - that does seem to be the overwhelming reality. There are amazing new technologies out there. What's missing is a way to get things like sand fueled electricity into the market place

Lee Camp · 8:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Yes, if we think that income is funnelled to the top 1 % now, wait till the top 0.000001 have all the robots”

Lee Camp · 8:10 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Profit is what's enslaving us...not technology”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:11 PM

And Technology is a tool overwhelmingly controlled by the top profiteers.

Lee Camp · 8:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“The one that really worries me: nanotechnology, and the potential for it to fly out of control.”

Lee Camp · 8:11 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Actually, in all the cases where I have used robots, I was able to save 2 jobs for every job cut. Without the robots, I would had to just build the entire facility outside of the US”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:11 PM

New drones are coming out while alternative cancer treatments are kept more secret than alien probing

Lee Camp · 8:12 PM

EG - You get alien probing?!

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:12 PM

@Lee - I find it to be an essential part of my overall health

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:12 PM

@David - why specifically nanotechnology?

Lee Camp · 8:12 PM

And you also have to look at what those drones are being used for - apparently just bombing, surveillance, and delivering packages for Amazon.

Lee Camp · 8:13 PM

As I said in a video - the best technology ever created and we're using it to deliver a Slap-Chop to an agoraphobic cole slaw addict?!

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:13 PM

haha - that's a great line.

Lee Camp · 8:13 PM

I think nanotech is more frightening because, um, you can't see it.

Lee Camp · 8:14 PM

In our ape brains, things that you can punch in the face seem less scary. Ha.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:14 PM

And yes, we also have spray on hair and self propelled vacuum cleaners. So beneficial to our evolution

Lee Camp · 8:14 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tommy Marino

“so no takers on intoducing the venus project into this discussion -___- lame”

Lee Camp · 8:14 PM

Wow Tommy, really had to make that comment bitchy.

Lee Camp · 8:14 PM

But sure, we can talk Venus Project.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:15 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“I would love to discuss why I feel that Venus Project is a batsh*t scam”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:15 PM

go for it, mitchell!

Lee Camp · 8:15 PM

I think it shows that tech can be used to make a better society. I don't know that we have to have that particular form, but I like the idea of proposing something better than we have.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:16 PM

I think it's human nature to always seek to better our situation. Technology is that place for us right now.

Lee Camp · 8:16 PM

Quick note - If you're reading this sentence, please post on Twitter or FB that you're at this tawk! Give people the link so they can join!

Lee Camp · 8:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Bitchy and batshit go hand in hand.”

Lee Camp · 8:16 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jimmy Lee Wirt

“Someone will eventually make a porn parody - The Penis Project”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:16 PM

I'm bitchy but I don't know that I'm batshit...not yet anyway

Lee Camp · 8:16 PM

@Jimmy - one can only hope.

Lee Camp · 8:17 PM

Mitchell, I was waiting to hear why it's a scam. But then again perhaps I just can't see your response.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:17 PM

So all quiet on the Venus front?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:18 PM

I got pretty psyched reading about green architecture, carbon capture and biomimicry so we can go down that road too.

Lee Camp · 8:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“I get so many people asking me to support the Batsh*t Scam Venus project when I need to pay the rent and can't find a job because I am a natural us citizen engineer and technologist”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:18 PM

That's the optimist route of how it will save us, obviously

Lee Camp · 8:18 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tommy Marino

“i think if we all got behind the venus project and tried to help support the bith of a resource based economy things would slowly get better, its a matter of steeping up and doing something though and taking a chance supporting intelligent alternaive”

Lee Camp · 8:19 PM

A resource based economy does make more sense than an economy based on farts and wishes

Lee Camp · 8:19 PM

which I think ours is.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:19 PM

How are supporting the Venus Project and being a US citizen and engineer/technologist mutually exclusive?

Lee Camp · 8:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“To me the Venus project is a utopion dream of unrealistic pods where all the contributors have no wealth while the scammer takes the cash and the land and can sell the land when the project fails and the contributors are left with nothing. I'll be p”

Lee Camp · 8:19 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“mitch, WHO is scamming??”

Lee Camp · 8:20 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“there's nothing to SELL..i dont think you get the premise on the VP, dude”

Lee Camp · 8:21 PM

@Mitchell - I used to be opposed to the idea of showing any kind of semi-utopian design because it isn't realistic, but I've changed my mind. Perhaps people need the utopian imagery in order to stand up and fight. Perhaps it's an important catalyst.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:21 PM

I will agree that the VP is largely Utopian. As a realist, I don't think that true and sweeping peace on earth is possible either. However, moving towards changes proposed in the VP is a solid step forward

Lee Camp · 8:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Venus project requires engineers to sign over IP to Venus project. I need to work to pay bills and my wife has been in ICU for three days.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:22 PM

You'll never be in the garden of eden or middle earth with a bunch of elves and nice hobbits, but we can recognize the tremendous faults of our society and try to work on fixing them.

Lee Camp · 8:22 PM

Sorry to hear about your wife, Mitchell. I don't think anyone here is asking you to get to work on designing the future this minute.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:22 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“there are people everywhere who DO volunteer their time, though. just becuase YOU cant' doesnt mean no one should”

Lee Camp · 8:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“the VP never clams to be a utopia, though. it's ever changing. utopia is a fixed state.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jimmy Lee Wirt

“You got to start somewhere, right?”

Lee Camp · 8:23 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tommy Marino

“The Venus Project is no Utopia, its is the best alternative we have as of right now. its not perfect its just better in theory.”

Lee Camp · 8:23 PM

Perhaps the true value in VP is simply the idea that technology can be used differently than we're using it.

Lee Camp · 8:24 PM

Maybe it's not about the specifics - like fucking pods.

Lee Camp · 8:24 PM

Although "fucking pods" sound pretty great.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:24 PM

And providing an outline for that move forward is better than just aimlessly talking about "what ifs"

Lee Camp · 8:25 PM

hydroponics seem like a definite way forward

Lee Camp · 8:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“In the future...there will be fucking pods for all.”

Lee Camp · 8:25 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jimmy Lee Wirt

“That's the full title of the porn parody - The Penis Project: Fucking Pods”

Lee Camp · 8:25 PM

Oh man, Jimmy, let's write that film!

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:25 PM

hahaha - jimmy, you better copyright that name quick. it's too good not to get grabbed by vivid entertainment ;)

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:26 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tommy Marino

“well idealism only works if action follows behind it, so im acting by spreading the idea, what about you guys?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:26 PM

I personally don't seek to spread idealism, Tommy.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:26 PM

I see to spread information, and push for action

Lee Camp · 8:26 PM

But you probably do still imagine a better world, Eleanor.

Lee Camp · 8:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“what good is information and action if you have no vision?”

Lee Camp · 8:27 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jimmy Lee Wirt

“Ideas can turn into something great, or crappy. Only time will tell.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:27 PM

As of now, you are spreading anger at the concept of moving forward with VP. I appreciate you bringing it up, but what would you suggest? Take your action further by suggesting an alternative

Lee Camp · 8:27 PM

So I guess perhaps the deeper question is how do we make sure technology goes the populist route rather than the corporate route?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:29 PM

I do imagine a better world, but I don't spread that idealism. too many people already sit and think they can pray for change and hope for peace and love and never ending chocolate rations

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tommy Marino

“Music, concerts, grassroots campaigns, local discussions, & community think tanks?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:29 PM

A-fucking-men Tommy. That's the good shit, right there

Lee Camp · 8:29 PM

You're biased!

Lee Camp · 8:29 PM

What about comedy shows?!

Lee Camp · 8:29 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jana Alokar

“Do you really think it isn't idealistic to push for a non-monetary based global economic system?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:30 PM

Oh don't get your panties in a twist - he said concerts. I assume that means being serenaded by comedy as well

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:30 PM

@Jana - to many, it can seem that way b/c of the current status quo.

Lee Camp · 8:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Comedy shows are definitely a great route to spread change. People get the message and laugh it out by spreading the laughs.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:31 PM

That is a tremendous overhaul of the global economy and a daunting task.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:31 PM

As far as technology is concerned, it does seem that when it is focused on the small, bigger waves propel it forward

Lee Camp · 8:31 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“No, I don't think that a more resourced base system would be bad. Read the details on the venus project and see how it is feasible to implement during the transistion from capital to resource. Note: one guy retains ownership”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:31 PM

For example, hydroponics that Lee mentioned earlier

Lee Camp · 8:32 PM

Yeah, there are transition steps from what we have now to a better society - things as simple as zip cars, or tool shares, or hydroponics...

Lee Camp · 8:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Comedy is like the excitement of a nerve alerting the body to a status”

Lee Camp · 8:32 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“" a spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down" Laughter is always sweeter than tears.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:32 PM

People thinking globally and acting locally

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:33 PM

So much of forward thinking technology is steeped in that concept

Lee Camp · 8:33 PM

I think it's important to keep fighting against corporate ownership of resources. They will continue to try to buy up the world, and that fight won't be over soon.

Lee Camp · 8:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“we need to do a webcam conference next time. this isn't happening for me.”

Lee Camp · 8:33 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Right on Eleanor!”

Lee Camp · 8:34 PM

Ha, if this were a webcam, it would be 40 people yelling.

Lee Camp · 8:34 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“no way, vincent. ain't no one lookin at my hair like this lol”

Lee Camp · 8:34 PM

Plus I don't have on pants.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:34 PM

Absolutely agree with Lee on that point.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:34 PM

The corporatorcratic rule, not the pants part

Lee Camp · 8:35 PM

One day I'll get you to agree with me on the pants.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:35 PM

As a Swede, I'm totally with you on the nudity thing.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“its both enslaving us and freeing us . but that's the process of maturity.”

Lee Camp · 8:35 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jana Alokar

“What do you think would motivate a mass of people into thinking about dismissing monetary incentive?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:35 PM

That's a keystone point. It's really up to us whether it enslaves or frees us.

Lee Camp · 8:36 PM

So rather than thinking about the future - how about the present? Has better tech helped more people than it has harmed? If we lived like the Amish we the world be better off?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:36 PM

Better off is so subjective

Lee Camp · 8:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“The extremely wealthy are doing a good job of making people consider alternate economics now. Pretty soon, guillotines”

Lee Camp · 8:36 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Lucy...I don't know what it means but it's alright with me. Hahaha”

Lee Camp · 8:37 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“some one give this a thumbs up ... its both enslaving us and freeing us ... but that is the process of maturity.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:37 PM

Technology has done both. You could argue that we are slaves to our computers. However, how would things like Occupy or Common Cause be able to reach new people without it?

Lee Camp · 8:37 PM

Yeah, but Vincent, it can go either way right now. We could see extreme enslavement in the coming years in the sense that we can never get off the grid or we could see more freedom.

Lee Camp · 8:38 PM

And more growth as a species.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:38 PM

I think Vincent's point is again, ever more reason to push for awareness and socio-political involvement

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:38 PM

It's up to us whether drones or carbon dioxide eating molecules are flying around

Lee Camp · 8:38 PM

By the way, Google has been buying up loads of robotics corps.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:39 PM

Yeah, I heard about that

Lee Camp · 8:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jana Alokar

“Think of the Arab revolutions - technology broke some serious chains. There are serious positives over here people.”

Lee Camp · 8:39 PM

Yes, Jana, absolutely.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:39 PM

Absolutely.

Lee Camp · 8:39 PM

Without the internet the Arab Spring and Occupy and so much more would not have happened.

Lee Camp · 8:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“and what helps growth? love. compassion and nurturing.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:39 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lindenberg Munroe

“Yes Tommy, but at the moment what people are doing with technology is sort of scary.”

Lee Camp · 8:40 PM

Sophia, how do we create some kind of high-tech love gun that shoot that shit into people's skulls with high-power rounds??

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“In the case of Fukushima, technology's risks where understated by supervisors intent on getting the project to the point where it was not safe.just to get the project (profit sneeks in again)”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:40 PM

There is a lot of scary shit going on via technology. Profit over people drives that train

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“Technology is not the evil here...it's the people behind it.”

Lee Camp · 8:40 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“Lee yeah, but that also is the process of maturity. It is a matter of using technology in the right way - and that is a political equation.”

Lee Camp · 8:41 PM

@vincent - absolutely. We have to stand up and demand it be used a certain way.

Lee Camp · 8:41 PM

We have to demand to keep our information private and demand to retain our freedom - what's left of it.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tommy Marino

“thats because some people choose to be corrupt human beings, but thats a whole nother discussion on changing ourselves and our perceptions of ourselves in reality”

Lee Camp · 8:41 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“its easy. just smile and spread love.”

Lee Camp · 8:41 PM

Sophia - I still want to see a large gun of some sort.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:42 PM

Personal evolution is a necessary shift, of course.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:42 PM

The KISS song Love Gun comes to mind...

Lee Camp · 8:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“Our brains are still operating with Ice-Age mentalities as we move into Space Age reality. I don't think we're ready guys. Turn around. Go back. Try again in a few thousand years.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:42 PM

Ha! I'm afraid we have to ride this avalanche. Fighting against it will just make us all drown

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:42 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“The world had bad people in the past, technology just lets them be bad faster and more efficiently”

Lee Camp · 8:43 PM

Comrade - totally true. I fear that as robots get smarter and smarter, we're going to look more and more like apes trying to control geniuses.

Lee Camp · 8:43 PM

★ Spotlighted from Tommy Marino

“lets just learn from the examples of the great plains indians take what you need give back what you can, and i agree we should just go back to our rrots, i mean it worked, were here now”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:43 PM

And as the ruling elite become a smaller and smaller class, it is ever more important that we make our numbers known, and push technology towards the betterment of our society, not our top 1%

Lee Camp · 8:43 PM

Tommy - Is this the part where I scream "communist" at you and run the other direction?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“tommy, i would rather go forward and not back”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:44 PM

Technology has been a part of human evolution

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:44 PM

Right, Sophia

Lee Camp · 8:44 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“Word to that Lee. I think we've already crossed that rubicon. I'm pretty sure the internet is always laughing at us.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:45 PM

Going back won't do us a damn bit of good. We have to move forwards while understanding the foundation of our species. For example, local farming using hydroponics. THis is a perfect blend of human needs simplified yet simultaneously technologically

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:45 PM

enhanced

Lee Camp · 8:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“The robots may get smarter, but it depends on your definition of smart, Lee. Can ANY robot be a lot smarter than the people who built it? Hasn't happened yet.”

Lee Camp · 8:45 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Best thing that you can do for CO2 is plant a tree”

Lee Camp · 8:45 PM

Mitchell - or drop dead.

Lee Camp · 8:45 PM

David - Not yet. But it will very soon.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:46 PM

It takes too much energy to decompose your body Lee. Don't be greedy

Lee Camp · 8:46 PM

And actual Deep Blue did prove robots can be smarter than the creators, at least at chess.

Lee Camp · 8:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“we need to do a web conference next time. an orderly one. with atmospheric music.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:46 PM

I'd prefer hard rock

Lee Camp · 8:46 PM

Vincent - sounds like the fucking pod I was talking about.

Lee Camp · 8:46 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“I wonder if robots will have issues with cultural appropriation in the future...”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:47 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“We can't get anything done until we address population control, and scarily, that might very well be the sci-fdi reality driving the current situation.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:47 PM

We absolutely need to get our numbers under control, and be honest with the resources we have

Lee Camp · 8:47 PM

David - I disagree. The resources are on this planet to feed and house everyone. We just don't use them properly. We give most to a very few people.

Lee Camp · 8:48 PM

Population control is only a problem if we keep living the way we are.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:48 PM

That is true, Lee. However the current paradigm of our Western world is to use all resources, leave, use all the resources, leave, etc etc.

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

Eleanor - I live that way if by "resources" you mean "peanut butter".

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:49 PM

Population will be a problem before we have a chance to fully shift our paradigm. People shouldn't be having 13 kids or keeping condoms from developing countries.

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

But absolutely - we need to stop living like a virus or a cancer.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:49 PM

Ha!

Lee Camp · 8:49 PM

And unfortunately it's the idiots having the most kids.

Lee Camp · 8:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“It hasn't been that long that 1 person could kill 4 billion people”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jana Alokar

“Can we go after Ann Coulter with the excuse of population control? please?”

Lee Camp · 8:50 PM

Mitchell - Are you offering?

Lee Camp · 8:50 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“Changing the nature of pervasiveness of greed, that's the one that is so daunting - and crucial.”

Lee Camp · 8:51 PM

For our last ten minutes, shall we talk about how to keep technological advancements good rather than evil? How do we grab control from the corporations pushing toward dystopia?

Lee Camp · 8:51 PM

★ Spotlighted from David Biedny

“Yeah, Lee, the opening montage of Idiocracy is just to close for comfort.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:51 PM

A lot of this, including the opencog (good share Thomas!) traces back to education.

Lee Camp · 8:51 PM

Uh oh, Eleanor, he mentioned Idiocracy. Told ya.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:52 PM

That also answers Lee's question.

Lee Camp · 8:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Thomas Lycett

“http://opencog.org/”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:52 PM

Oh I know, I know. I was thinking the same thing. Still think it's a shit movie, but the concept is spot on

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“Change the myth and you can change everything. That's how you save technology from becoming evil.”

Lee Camp · 8:52 PM

Before I forget, here's my video on how we're in the middle of a global awakening thanks to technology. Watch it after we're done here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1vusqRuRYw

Lee Camp · 8:52 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“I, for one, would have been dead a long time ago if it weren't for technology. On the other hand how many died from project sunshine in poor neighborhoods to determine fallout exposure statistics”

Lee Camp · 8:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“question everything and DONT STOP”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:53 PM

Question and educate.

Lee Camp · 8:53 PM

Comrade - That's exactly what Dylan Ratigan has been saying. Can you explain the idea of the myth?

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:53 PM

Knowledge is the key to personal evolution and forward progress for a society

Lee Camp · 8:53 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“If you have children, home school them...unschooled them. Teach them critical thinking.”

Lee Camp · 8:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

““I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:n1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works....”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.n3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.””

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“I think the myth is largely that we need some sort of Daddy figure to act like they got it all figured it out. People crave an illusion of order. Corporations are part of that myth right now. So is government, politics and economics.”

Lee Camp · 8:54 PM

@Lisa - Yes, it can be done with home schooling or in other ways, but children need to be taught to think in new ways.

Lee Camp · 8:54 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“All of those myths need to be rewritten.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:54 PM

@comrade - exactly

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:54 PM

Religion serves the same purpose.

Lee Camp · 8:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“i always say everything that happens is "natural"..”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:55 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“People of Kiribati depended on foreign aid from churches that did not allow birth control and ended up an island with over 30,000 that could only support 500 sustainably. Now import all food and fresh water and energy (the Japanese take all their fi”

Lee Camp · 8:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“think global. a global sustainable application of technology would solidify its real purpose - a lot of the new world order paranoia is part of the maturity process - technological ability versus morality.”

Lee Camp · 8:56 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“Whatever purpose those abstractions had in the past...I think it's safe to say, they served them and we, as a species, ought to move on to some new ideas. I mean, we got a lot of fun new tools to play with now. Let's write it in our own image now.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:56 PM

And morality that's decided upon by corporations legally forced to care about profit over people and religion is no moral compass

Lee Camp · 8:56 PM

Agreed.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:56 PM

@Comrade - very well put

Lee Camp · 8:57 PM

Here's another one of my videos - "Six Devices That Will Change The World" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n2O4W8iviA

Lee Camp · 8:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“Dig it?”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:57 PM

Build that moral compass on humanity and forward progress through technology and overall societal betterment

Lee Camp · 8:57 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Just like the news is tainted by commercials from Exxon, many charities are chaired by people who own controlling stock of the industries that the charity wants to control”

Lee Camp · 8:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lisa Del Rey

“We are living longer but the quality of our lives have decreased dramatically. We have more conveniences but less time. The irony of it all! Ha!”

Lee Camp · 8:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Pyotr Drevacks

“i agree with what most of you are saying, still i think we need to find a way to get to that breaking point, we are hovering around the idea but there isnt actually anything new being said for most people here”

Lee Camp · 8:58 PM

Pyotr - say something new!

Lee Camp · 8:58 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“yes, true about corporations - they are the collective celling so to speak of our level of maturity - that will change.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:58 PM

Conversations such as these push new ideas. Inspiration comes from connecting with other people pushing for change.

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:59 PM

This isn't all we need to do but it is something we need to do

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:59 PM

That being said, yes - throw out some ideas! :)

Eleanor Goldfield · 8:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Comrade Ogilvy

“Thanks to beautiful heads like Lee and Eleanor here...no matter how dark the story gets, I'm gonna keep living like a free animal. You should too. That's where the hope is. Thanks for the talk L & E. Good stuff.”

Lee Camp · 8:59 PM

On that note - I want to remind you that if you "join" Tawkers for free, you can come to these weekly discussions, comment, and also get notifications when we're having one.

Lee Camp · 8:59 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“i met new people, pyotr.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:00 PM

Likewise Comrade - thanks for the insight and commentary!

Lee Camp · 9:00 PM

Sophia is the most positive person I've ever met. You rock.

Lee Camp · 9:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Pyotr Drevacks

“go project mayhem on these bitches!”

Lee Camp · 9:00 PM

★ Spotlighted from Mitchell Heldt

“Real cold fusion, see beta capture. Or just wait 5 months if you live on US west coast”

Lee Camp · 9:00 PM

Pyotr - Look up "world wide wave of action"

Lee Camp · 9:01 PM

http://evolvesociety.org/feature/a-call-for-a-crowdsourced-worldwide-wave-of-action-www/

Lee Camp · 9:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“thanks :-) i was voted most outgoing in girls scouts. you rock, too, lee!”

Lee Camp · 9:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Steven Brewer

“Thanks for taking the time Lee and Eleanor”

Lee Camp · 9:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“in the right hands,tech can be used to advance people,educate and inform people about a gret many things.”

Lee Camp · 9:01 PM

★ Spotlighted from Jana Alokar

“The gov't will always find a way to evade transparency with their technology under the excuse of 'national security'”

Lee Camp · 9:02 PM

We're gonna get out of here in a minute, but please keep in touch with me @LeeCamp on Twitter and Facebook.com/LeeCampComedian

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:02 PM

Always until we stop them.

Lee Camp · 9:02 PM

Eleanor - pimp your shit

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:02 PM

Thanks again everyone - this was a great tawk!

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:02 PM

@rooftopeleanor

Lee Camp · 9:02 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“If we make it. Global Warming may do us in. Serious shit is coming our way. We need to handle the fall out with compassion.”

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:02 PM

@rooftoprev for the band.

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:02 PM

rooftoprevolutionaries.com

Lee Camp · 9:02 PM

You can also sign up for my newsletter at LeeCamp.net

Lee Camp · 9:02 PM

Keep fighting, my friends!!

Lee Camp · 9:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Sophia Belita

“another great tawk, guys.”

Lee Camp · 9:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Lucy Dyer

“cheers for tawk you guys!”

Lee Camp · 9:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Pyotr Drevacks

“thanks for the link lee!”

Lee Camp · 9:03 PM

Here it is again - http://daviddegraw.org/all-in-for-the-worldwide-wave-of-action/

Lee Camp · 9:03 PM

★ Spotlighted from Vincent Zetta

“~ zetta out ~ I'm at work. Peace. thanks Lee thanks Eleanor”

Eleanor Goldfield · 9:04 PM

Thank you!

Lee Camp · 12:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Tommy Marino

“is there anyway to save the conversation to your computer? like i dont know a picture or something?”

Lee Camp · 12:18 AM

★ Spotlighted from Rachael Workman

“@tommy just save the link -- the tawk never goes away.”

Forum · 233

Forum· 233 comments

514 visitors

Tawkers AdminDec 18, 2013, 6:53 PM

Welcome to the Forum! To get involved, click "Who's Here" and then FOLLOW people.

Tawkers AdminDec 18, 2013, 6:53 PM★ Spotlighted

Once 25 people gather in the audience, a comment needs at least one LIKE to become visible to the two Hosts and anyone not following them. So LIKE the comments you want everyone to see!

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 7:51 PM

some light reading perhaps? - http://recombu.com/digital/news/dog-translate-no-more-woof_M12582.html

Rebecca Westbrook TokerDec 19, 2013, 8:00 PM

Man, Lucy, that's a weird one. While I hate to squash anyone's creativity, in the hierarchy of needs on our planet, jeezy creezy, that probably doesn't rank too high. But who knows - maybe the dogs have the answers.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Aww shit! A robot? No real Lee? Man this technology crap is getting impersonal!

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:02 PM

Save or enslave...this question all depends on who and what technology is and will be used for.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:02 PM

firstly,hey Eleanor and Lee..secondly,LEE finally fixed the internet bugs,huh?

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:03 PM

I have used robots to prevent 50 people per year losing the use of both hands for 2.5 years

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:03 PM

Lee,have you not seen the Southpark movie?

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:03 PM

Actually two years. took six months to build the robots

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:03 PM★ Spotlighted

Okay can I just say that my 2 year old clearly says fuck and shit all the time cause he's always watching Moment of Clarity...thanks Lee!

Jimmy Lee WirtDec 19, 2013, 8:04 PM

Am I weird to think that the Singularity might be awesome?

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:04 PM

ah yes,but people will have program those robots/technology. so some will still be working,asit were

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:05 PM★ Spotlighted

If we were able to use only robots for work then our current economic system is not going to work

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:05 PM

If only robots work, then only robot owners will have wealth

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:06 PM★ Spotlighted

Technology has always been not much more than a tool, but these days, it's also becoming a destination and a philosophy.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:06 PM

Hahaha...I think you complimented me with a slap in the face! Nice...I like it.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:06 PM

Hey lee and eleanor, what do you think about the venus project? futurist jacque fresco says he would use technology to help the world, im interested to know what you guys think about this :]

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:07 PM★ Spotlighted

@ Lee - the wealthy have the easiest access to the newest tech, but in general, most people do indeed benefit from technology in direct and indirect ways...

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:07 PM

With our current state of economy, technology will hinder us as workers

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:08 PM

Like most other things human, it all comes down to balance - or lack thereof. When technology becomes a religion, there's a problem, in the same way that Capitalism is now a religion.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:08 PM

i think everyone here can agree we need different economic system then, how does a resource based economy sound?

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:08 PM

todays technology isnt perfect ya know - take the NSA for example.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:08 PM

Currently, more and more people lose their jobs every day due to less need for human interface because of technology.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:08 PM★ Spotlighted

Also, most of the progress that we have seen using computers has come during a time when most processes are based on Von Neuman technology. That is changing and soon the amount of memory will matter more than the speed of the processor.

Steven BrewerDec 19, 2013, 8:08 PM★ Spotlighted

Technology can be used to help many people in various ways. But most of the time all I see are apps to make your Facebook better or devices to help your dog talk. It doesn't give much hope for people looking forward.

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:09 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes, Lee, some jobs do indeed go away. If humanity had a balanced approach, we'd value people for ALL their potential, not just their economic potential.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:09 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes, if we think that income is funnelled to the top 1 % now, wait till the top 0.000001 have all the robots

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:10 PM★ Spotlighted

Profit is what's enslaving us...not technology

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:10 PM

maybe you should ask WHY there are more "robots" doing human work? is it cos people are just being lazy? or could it just be they fat cat asshats want to make a quick buck?

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:10 PM★ Spotlighted

Actually, in all the cases where I have used robots, I was able to save 2 jobs for every job cut. Without the robots, I would had to just build the entire facility outside of the US

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:10 PM★ Spotlighted

The one that really worries me: nanotechnology, and the potential for it to fly out of control.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:11 PM

balance is found in the venus project, machines & technology would be fueling a resource based economy, this would take away power from corrupt capitalists, free people from wage slavery & distribute resources to the world instead of individual count

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:11 PM

A big underlying issue is that the rate of technological advancement is happening faster than our cultural ability to process the changes.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:11 PM

Good point Eleanor! And that's the problem right there.

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:12 PM

The wealthiest people have always had access to the best technology - that's a human cultural constant right there.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:12 PM

I love a good alien probe...it cleans you right out!

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:12 PM

No, non-von neuman really scares the crap out of me. When I played with it for automating factories in 1990, I could do in a microsecond what von neuman systems would do in a minute

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:13 PM

would there be the potential for an amazon drone to deliver a bomb?

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:13 PM★ Spotlighted

so no takers on intoducing the venus project into this discussion -___- lame

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:13 PM

Lucy, just a click of a button

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:14 PM

thought so,Mitchell

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:14 PM

I like the rumba! It's made my life a whole lot easier. You the hell likes vacuuming?

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:15 PM★ Spotlighted

I would love to discuss why I feel that Venus Project is a batsh*t scam

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:15 PM

yes indeed sir, but now its caught your attention, lets discuss [;

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:15 PM★ Spotlighted

Bitchy and batshit go hand in hand.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:15 PM

you do realise that the topics we are discussing here have been in movies and/or TV shows. ever wonder why that is? could people be telling us something? could they be gently easing us into a more techno world?

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:15 PM

Nanotech has the potential to change the way that large-scale structures react - see Vonnegut and "Cat's Cradle"

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:16 PM

Historically, there has been one primary driver of technology: war. Our species is fucked.

Jimmy Lee WirtDec 19, 2013, 8:16 PM★ Spotlighted

Someone will eventually make a porn parody - The Penis Project

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:17 PM

jimmy, you silenced the room lol

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:17 PM★ Spotlighted

I get so many people asking me to support the Batsh*t Scam Venus project when I need to pay the rent and can't find a job because I am a natural us citizen engineer and technologist

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:17 PM

All quiet...nothing to report!

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:17 PM

what makes you call it a scam. mitchell?

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:18 PM★ Spotlighted

i think if we all got behind the venus project and tried to help support the bith of a resource based economy things would slowly get better, its a matter of steeping up and doing something though and taking a chance supporting intelligent alternaive

Jimmy Lee WirtDec 19, 2013, 8:18 PM

I'm an avid follower of http://www.kurzweilai.net/

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:18 PM

The advancement of technology is inevitable- but i presume our concern as laymen is once we become more adept and aware of gov't censorship & spying - they are just always two steps ahead.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:19 PM★ Spotlighted

To me the Venus project is a utopion dream of unrealistic pods where all the contributors have no wealth while the scammer takes the cash and the land and can sell the land when the project fails and the contributors are left with nothing. I'll be p

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:19 PM

There are soooo many scams out there and we really want to believe that a society like ours can be like the Venus project but alas...profit and greed get in the way!

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:19 PM★ Spotlighted

mitch, WHO is scamming??

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:20 PM★ Spotlighted

there's nothing to SELL..i dont think you get the premise on the VP, dude

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:20 PM

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:20 PM

Contact me at venuscam@heldt.org if you want to discuss venus scam. so I don't get us off track

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:21 PM

ok mitch

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:21 PM★ Spotlighted

Venus project requires engineers to sign over IP to Venus project. I need to work to pay bills and my wife has been in ICU for three days.

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:22 PM★ Spotlighted

the VP never clams to be a utopia, though. it's ever changing. utopia is a fixed state.

Jimmy Lee WirtDec 19, 2013, 8:22 PM★ Spotlighted

You got to start somewhere, right?

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:22 PM★ Spotlighted

there are people everywhere who DO volunteer their time, though. just becuase YOU cant' doesnt mean no one should

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:23 PM★ Spotlighted

The Venus Project is no Utopia, its is the best alternative we have as of right now. its not perfect its just better in theory.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:23 PM

A resource based economy needs to provide the means for workers to live. There is no way to work for the venus project and provide for my family. I volunteer time with "Chemists without Borrders" who find inexpensive ways to save lives in develop

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:23 PM

and as we learn, it will change and evolve. need i remind you that static means still and comes from the same root as state.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:24 PM

I think we can talk about this until the cows come home and shit will not change...at least not in our lifetime...

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:24 PM

amen, lee. not specifics.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:24 PM

if the venus project was just an idea someone had - and didnt have a name to it - would people still want to believe in it the way they do? or does the name change the way you view it?

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:24 PM

hahah i agree that sounds rad! i want a fuck pod...

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:24 PM★ Spotlighted

In the future...there will be fucking pods for all.

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:24 PM

i had the same ideas before lucy. the VP just let me know i wasnt alone

Jimmy Lee WirtDec 19, 2013, 8:24 PM★ Spotlighted

That's the full title of the porn parody - The Penis Project: Fucking Pods

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:25 PM

yeah thats what i'm getting at Sophia

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:25 PM

I don't think that the name matters, it is the fantastic drawing of unrealistic buildings that is being sold

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:25 PM

I agree Lee...hydroponics is the future of sustainability.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:25 PM★ Spotlighted

well idealism only works if action follows behind it, so im acting by spreading the idea, what about you guys?

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:26 PM

jimmy,will there be lots of alien probing?

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:26 PM★ Spotlighted

what good is information and action if you have no vision?

Jimmy Lee WirtDec 19, 2013, 8:27 PM★ Spotlighted

Ideas can turn into something great, or crappy. Only time will tell.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:27 PM

Tommy we are all doing our part here...we are all thinking outside of the box.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:27 PM

but you cant just think direct actin MUST follow, actions that affect the real worl and real minds of real people

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:27 PM

usually its the INTENT behind the action that hints at its outcome.

Jimmy Lee WirtDec 19, 2013, 8:27 PM

Like the upcoming Gilligan's Island movie, for example.

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:27 PM

Idealism is less pragmatic than ideas, what is really needed is a move away from blind acceptance and apathy, and technology has given us a means to change the conversation.

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:28 PM

spread the ideas that the idea of money is pretty stupid when you think about it..

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:28 PM

And. Lee how do we propose to do that if it's currently in the hands of the corporates.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:28 PM★ Spotlighted

Music, concerts, grassroots campaigns, local discussions, & community think tanks?

Steven BrewerDec 19, 2013, 8:29 PM

Stop buying Technology that holds no value?

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:29 PM

Utopian ideas are useful, desirable, even, but human implementation is often entropic and haphazard.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:29 PM

Yes, the big problem is the rate of change of technology. Our technology is growing faster than we can adapt or regulate

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:29 PM★ Spotlighted

Do you really think it isn't idealistic to push for a non-monetary based global economic system?

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:29 PM

yeee \m/

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:29 PM

Wait....there's a chocolate ration?! OMG, no!!!

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:29 PM

can you ever make it truly populist? in some sense you probably could,but in the end? it would more than likely be bought by a big corp anyways

Jimmy Lee WirtDec 19, 2013, 8:30 PM

Much like being in the eye of a hurricane, we as a society are in it as we speak. This platform on which we are speaking is a perfect example of that. Meaning, technology constantly is evolving, and so are we.

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:30 PM

You take back control of the narrative. That's how. Right now the myth of our civilization is being woven by the industrial death machines that dominate it. We need more brilliant storytellers in this world if we're going to change it.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:30 PM

yes i mean look at george carlin & the wonderful lee camp!

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:30 PM★ Spotlighted

Comedy shows are definitely a great route to spread change. People get the message and laugh it out by spreading the laughs.

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:30 PM

There will always be serious corporate influence over technology, the trick is taking the tech and doing things that no one in power anticipates - it's not easy, but doable. There are many examples - wikileaks being an obvious one.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:31 PM★ Spotlighted

No, I don't think that a more resourced base system would be bad. Read the details on the venus project and see how it is feasible to implement during the transistion from capital to resource. Note: one guy retains ownership

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:32 PM★ Spotlighted

Comedy is like the excitement of a nerve alerting the body to a status

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:32 PM★ Spotlighted

" a spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down" Laughter is always sweeter than tears.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:32 PM

Well said David!

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:33 PM★ Spotlighted

Right on Eleanor!

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:33 PM★ Spotlighted

we need to do a webcam conference next time. this isn't happening for me.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:33 PM

I love hydroponics and aquaponics (I have a great hydro system now)

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

the biggest piece of technology ANYONE has - is their brain. shame not everyone uses it,and if they do,they dont use it to their full potential

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

Vincent, stop complaining and just tawk dammit! Hahaha...

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM★ Spotlighted

no way, vincent. ain't no one lookin at my hair like this lol

Lindenberg MunroeDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

trying to figure out this tawkers thingy!

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

We seriously need to defeat "Citizens United", I feel dirty every time I say or type those words now.

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

k ... Lisa ... tawk. tawk.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

I was just thinking the same thing Sophia! Hahaha

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

ok, well NOW i want the web cam!

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

For instance, It looks like Eleanor said something fantastic just now and I can't find it

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM

Historically speaking, corporate ownership of resources began with the idea that anyone could own resources at all. Taking ownership out of corporate hands and putting them in "other" hands does what eventually?

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:34 PM★ Spotlighted

its both enslaving us and freeing us . but that's the process of maturity.

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:35 PM★ Spotlighted

What do you think would motivate a mass of people into thinking about dismissing monetary incentive?

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:35 PM

stop saying you have no pants on,Lee! that means something TOTALLY different here in the UK!! and my brain cant cope with the image

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:36 PM★ Spotlighted

The extremely wealthy are doing a good job of making people consider alternate economics now. Pretty soon, guillotines

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:36 PM★ Spotlighted

Lucy...I don't know what it means but it's alright with me. Hahaha

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:36 PM

in the uk pants means underwear

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:36 PM★ Spotlighted

some one give this a thumbs up ... its both enslaving us and freeing us ... but that is the process of maturity.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:37 PM

I did Vincent...I like it twice!

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:37 PM

cool thanks Lisa ...

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:37 PM

"working so hard to make it easy"

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:37 PM

The russians did not revolt because they wanted communism. They just wanted communism to get them away from the ultra wealthy russian's control and meanness

Lindenberg MunroeDec 19, 2013, 8:38 PM

I just feel that the we are in the midst of something big, some big change, and as Mitchell said, the rich are doing a good job, forcing us to look for alternatives.

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:38 PM★ Spotlighted

and what helps growth? love. compassion and nurturing.

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:38 PM

Presently I think we're in a sort of push-pull system with technology. A push "forward" and a pull "backward." On one hand we have antibiotics and shit that make our lives all sorts of awesome...on the other...lead in the toys. Weird times.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:38 PM

Technology has served us well for the past 100 years. We've come a very long way in a very short time span. What will the next 100 years hold for us in terms of technology? We can only imagine.

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:38 PM★ Spotlighted

Think of the Arab revolutions - technology broke some serious chains. There are serious positives over here people.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:38 PM

but dont machines & technology serve whatever the people operating them choose to do with them?

Lindenberg MunroeDec 19, 2013, 8:39 PM★ Spotlighted

Yes Tommy, but at the moment what people are doing with technology is sort of scary.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:39 PM★ Spotlighted

In the case of Fukushima, technology's risks where understated by supervisors intent on getting the project to the point where it was not safe.just to get the project (profit sneeks in again)

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:40 PM★ Spotlighted

Lee yeah, but that also is the process of maturity. It is a matter of using technology in the right way - and that is a political equation.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:40 PM★ Spotlighted

Technology is not the evil here...it's the people behind it.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:40 PM★ Spotlighted

thats because some people choose to be corrupt human beings, but thats a whole nother discussion on changing ourselves and our perceptions of ourselves in reality

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:41 PM

especially the present ruling oligarchs

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:41 PM

ok question - if there were no internet,iphones,tablets,everyone had to write on paper,send letters to communicate etc...would the world be a better place? would we as a society be in the position we face now?

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:41 PM★ Spotlighted

its easy. just smile and spread love.

Lindenberg MunroeDec 19, 2013, 8:41 PM

I believe that technology is just a tool, but in a society with it's distorted value and corruption, technology will be a force/tool used for wrong reasons.

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:41 PM

give what you can.

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:41 PM

yes, a science party is the answer. the demo-republican thing isn't working.

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:42 PM

@lee : what is this 'certain way' you speak of? ENLIGHTEN US OH GREAT ONE

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:42 PM

The reason why the critical mass has been awakened is because we are too busy running the rat race we are in

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:42 PM★ Spotlighted

Our brains are still operating with Ice-Age mentalities as we move into Space Age reality. I don't think we're ready guys. Turn around. Go back. Try again in a few thousand years.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:42 PM★ Spotlighted

The world had bad people in the past, technology just lets them be bad faster and more efficiently

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:43 PM

there are bad people -who would use tech for "evil" purposes and then there are those who just plain greedy. there is a difference

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:43 PM★ Spotlighted

lets just learn from the examples of the great plains indians take what you need give back what you can, and i agree we should just go back to our rrots, i mean it worked, were here now

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:43 PM★ Spotlighted

Word to that Lee. I think we've already crossed that rubicon. I'm pretty sure the internet is always laughing at us.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:43 PM

Good, better, best vs bad, evil, Koch brothers/Wal-mart

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:43 PM★ Spotlighted

tommy, i would rather go forward and not back

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:44 PM★ Spotlighted

The robots may get smarter, but it depends on your definition of smart, Lee. Can ANY robot be a lot smarter than the people who built it? Hasn't happened yet.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:44 PM★ Spotlighted

Best thing that you can do for CO2 is plant a tree

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:45 PM

No serious discussion about technology is complete or enlightening without the understanding that the primary historical driving force behind most human technology has been warfare, and the underlying branches that service the war-mongering.

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:45 PM

Lee's career is actually an example of how manipulate an alternative tool - shaping it into a subversive force that acts as a balance against 'bad' technology and corporate control

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:45 PM

well look at it this way what it took the earth millions of years to create we can destroy in days weeks with heavy machinery

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:45 PM

or keep the ones that are already there Mitchell

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:45 PM

I did build one robot tester to test other robots

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:45 PM★ Spotlighted

we need to do a web conference next time. an orderly one. with atmospheric music.

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:46 PM★ Spotlighted

I wonder if robots will have issues with cultural appropriation in the future...

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:46 PM

I would like to see tawkers make a way to easily navigate the comments. The two columns are clumsey and I miss stuff while I type

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:46 PM★ Spotlighted

We can't get anything done until we address population control, and scarily, that might very well be the sci-fdi reality driving the current situation.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:46 PM

Our bodies are so full of toxins that we are bad for our own planet when we start decomposing in the earth. It's terrible!

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:47 PM

Planet of The APes,anyone?

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:47 PM

Chess is a very small subset of reality. Constrained datasets are the wet dream of AI.

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:47 PM

Like I can see an old tv getting pissed off at a tablet when it decides it wants to wear knobs for fun.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:48 PM

Population growth is projecting not enough food or water for 1/8 of the people in 20 years (is fukushima just a way to kill the 2 billion who need to die by then?)

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:48 PM

if we are making these robots with only 10% of our brain,think what we could build/make with the other 90%. now THATS scary

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:48 PM

I just want to understand how 'we' are pretty apolitical with all this technology at our disposal- HOW DO THEY DO IT?

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 8:49 PM

but if we took the worlds resources and shared them as common heritage as we use technology to help us create more resources, wouldnt that work? while also educating people of the dangers of over population though

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:49 PM

Our population isn't really even all that problematic...it's how we manage our resources...which is largely dictated by the myth we've built around them.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:49 PM

We are a very individualistic society as a whole. Until we can overcome that and see everyone as one then we will continue to be on this merry go round with or without technology.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:49 PM

Douglas Adams had the right idea about technology.

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:49 PM

Globally - and with the changing climate issues - overpopulation will likely emerge as a primary survival issue for the species.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:49 PM★ Spotlighted

It hasn't been that long that 1 person could kill 4 billion people

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:50 PM★ Spotlighted

Can we go after Ann Coulter with the excuse of population control? please?

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:50 PM★ Spotlighted

Changing the nature of pervasiveness of greed, that's the one that is so daunting - and crucial.

Thomas LycettDec 19, 2013, 8:50 PM★ Spotlighted

http://opencog.org/

David BiednyDec 19, 2013, 8:51 PM★ Spotlighted

Yeah, Lee, the opening montage of Idiocracy is just to close for comfort.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:52 PM★ Spotlighted

I, for one, would have been dead a long time ago if it weren't for technology. On the other hand how many died from project sunshine in poor neighborhoods to determine fallout exposure statistics

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:52 PM★ Spotlighted

Change the myth and you can change everything. That's how you save technology from becoming evil.

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:52 PM★ Spotlighted

question everything and DONT STOP

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:53 PM★ Spotlighted

If you have children, home school them...unschooled them. Teach them critical thinking.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:53 PM★ Spotlighted

“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:n1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works....

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:54 PM★ Spotlighted

2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.n3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:54 PM★ Spotlighted

I think the myth is largely that we need some sort of Daddy figure to act like they got it all figured it out. People crave an illusion of order. Corporations are part of that myth right now. So is government, politics and economics.

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 8:54 PM

I say get 'em all to sign the 'bad' technology non-proliferation treaty. i just made that up in case any1s wondering

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:54 PM★ Spotlighted

All of those myths need to be rewritten.

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:54 PM★ Spotlighted

i always say everything that happens is "natural"..

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:55 PM★ Spotlighted

People of Kiribati depended on foreign aid from churches that did not allow birth control and ended up an island with over 30,000 that could only support 500 sustainably. Now import all food and fresh water and energy (the Japanese take all their fi

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:55 PM

natural tech - using the moon/sun to navigate.....

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:55 PM★ Spotlighted

think global. a global sustainable application of technology would solidify its real purpose - a lot of the new world order paranoia is part of the maturity process - technological ability versus morality.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 8:56 PM

also using the sun to tell the itme

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:56 PM★ Spotlighted

Whatever purpose those abstractions had in the past...I think it's safe to say, they served them and we, as a species, ought to move on to some new ideas. I mean, we got a lot of fun new tools to play with now. Let's write it in our own image now.

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:56 PM★ Spotlighted

Dig it?

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:57 PM★ Spotlighted

Just like the news is tainted by commercials from Exxon, many charities are chaired by people who own controlling stock of the industries that the charity wants to control

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 8:57 PM★ Spotlighted

yes, true about corporations - they are the collective celling so to speak of our level of maturity - that will change.

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 8:57 PM★ Spotlighted

We are living longer but the quality of our lives have decreased dramatically. We have more conveniences but less time. The irony of it all! Ha!

Pyotr DrevacksDec 19, 2013, 8:57 PM★ Spotlighted

i agree with what most of you are saying, still i think we need to find a way to get to that breaking point, we are hovering around the idea but there isnt actually anything new being said for most people here

Comrade OgilvyDec 19, 2013, 8:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Thanks to beautiful heads like Lee and Eleanor here...no matter how dark the story gets, I'm gonna keep living like a free animal. You should too. That's where the hope is. Thanks for the talk L & E. Good stuff.

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 8:59 PM★ Spotlighted

Real cold fusion, see beta capture. Or just wait 5 months if you live on US west coast

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 8:59 PM★ Spotlighted

i met new people, pyotr.

Pyotr DrevacksDec 19, 2013, 8:59 PM★ Spotlighted

go project mayhem on these bitches!

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 9:00 PM

The technology of the internet has connected the world - 'the good of opinion of mankind' is more apparent. It may be regarded as an evolutionary step in human potential. Human potential must be processed / understood as global potential.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 9:00 PM★ Spotlighted

in the right hands,tech can be used to advance people,educate and inform people about a gret many things.

Steven BrewerDec 19, 2013, 9:00 PM★ Spotlighted

Thanks for taking the time Lee and Eleanor

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 9:00 PM

PYOTOR FUCK YEA!!! hahaha xD

Lisa Del ReyDec 19, 2013, 9:00 PM

Alright...nature is calling me! Haha! Lee, I love you! Eleanor, you're awesome! Until next time...much peace and love to you all...even Vincent!

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 9:00 PM★ Spotlighted

thanks :-) i was voted most outgoing in girls scouts. you rock, too, lee!

Jana AlokarDec 19, 2013, 9:00 PM★ Spotlighted

The gov't will always find a way to evade transparency with their technology under the excuse of 'national security'

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 9:01 PM★ Spotlighted

If we make it. Global Warming may do us in. Serious shit is coming our way. We need to handle the fall out with compassion.

Sophia BelitaDec 19, 2013, 9:02 PM★ Spotlighted

another great tawk, guys.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 9:02 PM

"the planet is fine,the people are f**ked!" - my final thought.

Lucy DyerDec 19, 2013, 9:02 PM★ Spotlighted

cheers for tawk you guys!

Pyotr DrevacksDec 19, 2013, 9:03 PM★ Spotlighted

thanks for the link lee!

Pyotr DrevacksDec 19, 2013, 9:03 PM

thanks for the tawk everyone else

Vincent ZettaDec 19, 2013, 9:03 PM★ Spotlighted

~ zetta out ~ I'm at work. Peace. thanks Lee thanks Eleanor

Mitchell HeldtDec 19, 2013, 9:03 PM

My new website for a counter proposal to Venus Project will be up next week. Upsidedownfarm.com

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 9:05 PM★ Spotlighted

is there anyway to save the conversation to your computer? like i dont know a picture or something?

Rachael WorkmanDec 19, 2013, 9:06 PM★ Spotlighted

@tommy just save the link -- the tawk never goes away.

Tommy MarinoDec 19, 2013, 9:07 PM

cool thank you rachael

Burch DriverDec 20, 2013, 2:43 AM

Technology kills specialization...a huge part of the solution is realizing that we can be generalists again. We are becoming hunter gatherers again. except the wilderness is comprised of data. Info hunters.

Burch DriverDec 20, 2013, 2:45 AM

thats called the orgasmitron and woody alan invented it.

Null NullDec 20, 2013, 7:08 PM

Technology can make your life easier...but less satisfying.

Jenifer AlcarazSep 11, 2014, 3:27 PM

I feel that Technology is taking over my life and mist of everyone else's for the simple fact that we are the Example what we do our kids / under age surveillance think that it doesn't get Further then being in our phones there's more out there