RT

Women Aren't Broken:A Childbirth EducatorSpeaksOut

Aug 16, 2013

SM
Stage· 433 messages
Aug 16, 2013

Artist, Childbirth Educator, Bellydancer and home-birther Sarah Meyers brings her perspective on the ways the modern healthcare system has disempowered women by convincing them that their bodies are insufficient to the task of handling birth.

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Sarah Meyers · 12:30 AM

hello!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:30 AM

Hello, hello ladies and gentlemen!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:30 AM

Hi, Sarah!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:30 AM

hi becky : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:30 AM

Looks like we're on!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:30 AM

yay!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:30 AM

Okay, a little bit of housekeeping: Welcome everyone!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:31 AM

Hi listeners and participants!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:31 AM

If you're new, as an audience member, you can log comments and ask questions and chat amongst yourselves.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:31 AM

Sarah and I can see your comments when they've been "Overheard" - liked or upvoted.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:32 AM

Click on the "Who's Here?" tab and listen to the other audience members so that you can see THEIR comments.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:32 AM

And now, without further ado,
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Sarah Meyers · 12:32 AM

done!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:32 AM

Welcome, Sarah!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:32 AM

Thank you!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:33 AM

Let's start out by hearing a little bit about how awesome you are (schmurr <3)
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Sarah Meyers · 12:33 AM

hehe, thanks : )
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Sarah Meyers · 12:34 AM

I'm a mom of two nifty kids, and I have about a thousand passions, so i try to fit all of those in to my jobs : )
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Sarah Meyers · 12:34 AM

I was an art teacher for 4 years, I teach birth classes, I am a bellydancer, and I've started a community center
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Sarah Meyers · 12:34 AM

I might be a little crazy too....
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:34 AM

Nah - visionary!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:34 AM

that looks like so much stuff when i type it.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:35 AM

I like visionary, that works!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:35 AM

You're also an artist and you just make stuff.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:35 AM

oh yeah, that too!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:35 AM

Whatever there is that you can think of, you just make it.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:35 AM

haha, I am always making something
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:35 AM

And sometimes you go set it up in a park.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:35 AM

well, i can't make pianos, which is my current problem, but that's a whole different thing.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:35 AM

LOL
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Sarah Meyers · 12:36 AM

I love public art instilations, especially when you're involved!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:36 AM

and how about you, amazing lady?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:37 AM

Me, too! Fancy that! Okay, so the subject of tonight's conversation is Childbirth and what's wron with the US's approach to it.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:37 AM

Which is how I met you -
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Sarah Meyers · 12:37 AM

yes!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:37 AM

You were MY childbirth educator/doula...2 years ago!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:37 AM

Holy wow, time goes by quickly.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:37 AM

wow, 2 years ago!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:38 AM

Anyway, my husband called you and set up the meeting, but I knew I liked you already when we got to the parking lot because your bumper sticker said, "I bet JESUS would have used his turn signal"
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Sarah Meyers · 12:38 AM

haha, b/c he would have....
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Sarah Meyers · 12:38 AM

he's polite like that
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:38 AM

And it was the beginning of a beautiful friendship (if you guys can't tell...)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:39 AM

Anyhow, I want to backtrack a little and find out what led you to being my childbirth educator - at a midwives' clinic, no less.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:39 AM

How did you get into "birthy" stuff?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:40 AM

well, we started our first pregnancy assuming that we'd go to a hospitol.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:40 AM

Like you do...;)
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Sarah Meyers · 12:40 AM

but two things held me back: 1. my mom hadn't used drugs (and i'm super cool, so i don't need them either). I'm a bit competative
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Sarah Meyers · 12:40 AM

and 2. I'm really creeped out by our local hospitol due to family being there previously.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:41 AM

Understandable.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:41 AM

so going to an OB was noraml, but rough
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:41 AM

How so?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:41 AM

he didn't really agree with the whole no drugs thing, and we actually got... made fun of?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:41 AM

a bit.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:41 AM

they were really condescending
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:42 AM

WTF?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:42 AM

Since they weren't supportive of natural birth and they talked down to us, I started researching other options.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:42 AM

yeah, Matt and I were not impressed with how they talked to us.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:42 AM

So I started reading books, articles and wtaching movies.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:43 AM

That is unacceptable! (Quiet, rage, quiet...)
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Sarah Meyers · 12:43 AM

The business of being born really pushed us to the edge.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:43 AM

I mean, the OB, not READING.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:43 AM

lol
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Sarah Meyers · 12:43 AM

we also watched born in america
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:43 AM

That is a fantastic documentary.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:43 AM

and shared them with our families
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:43 AM

How did that go?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:44 AM

they were concerned, but ok with it.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:44 AM

Okay with what?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:44 AM

Then I went to the OB and said "I'd like you to be my back up, i'm thinking of using a midwife" and he said " you have a marginal placenta previa, you're going to need a c-section, you're being irresponsible and you will probably kill your baby"
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Sarah Meyers · 12:45 AM

oh, ok with the idea of midwives.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:45 AM

That's not exciting news from the OB...
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Sarah Meyers · 12:45 AM

so i cried a lot, did research more, talked to my chiroprator, did some praying and we decided to go with a midwife.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:46 AM

and the placenta previa moved (like they usually do, which he didn't mention) and we had a wonderful birth at home!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:46 AM

What month were you in then? In your pregnancy.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:46 AM

b/c I decided no one was going to tell me at 23 wks that I needed a c-section
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Sarah Meyers · 12:46 AM

mid point : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:46 AM

I. Am. So. Angry. at that doctor.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:47 AM

so we switched to a midwife around 30ish wks, which is pretty late!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:47 AM

Why would he tell you that?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:47 AM

but it worked out, she accepted us and it all turned out well.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:47 AM

Um..... b/c he likes c-sec? I dunno.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:47 AM

It did turn out well - your kiddo is wonderful and I miss her!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:47 AM

he kicked me out of his practice, so i never really got to ask him : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:48 AM

So, before that had you ever really known anything about midwives?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:48 AM

Other birth options?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:48 AM

nope, nothing
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:48 AM

Birth itself?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:48 AM

but we went for it and took bradley style birth classes and felt really comfortable with the idea after that!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:48 AM

birth.... I guess just tv stuff. and that my mom didn't need drugs : )
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Sarah Meyers · 12:49 AM

I'd never seen a live birth
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Sarah Meyers · 12:49 AM

not even an animal one!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:49 AM

I'd consider that pretty mainstream
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:49 AM

But NOW, you're a childbirth educator - how many births have you seen?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:50 AM

lol, 3, not counting mine! I'd like to go to more, but it's hard with my babies!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:50 AM

Your's was my first!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:50 AM

(The portrayal of birth on TV - how would you rate the accuracy of that, in general?)
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Sarah Meyers · 12:50 AM

and it was so neat to see how differently you responded than me! Tv accuracy is terrible.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:51 AM

They only show the trasnition part, which is where *most* women go a little crazy
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Sarah Meyers · 12:51 AM

*transition
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Sarah Meyers · 12:51 AM

there's soooooo much more to labor than just that part.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:51 AM

:)
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Sarah Meyers · 12:51 AM

I also disagree with how they portray men, but that's a whole different topic.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:52 AM

That's part of what/why i teach, so the men have a role that is important
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:52 AM

So how did you get to be a birth nerd? From one baby born at home to making a career out of birth education?
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Sarah Meyers · 12:52 AM

so they're not just comic relief.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:52 AM

lol, I am a birth nerd!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:52 AM

I was offended at how the whole thing is treated.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:52 AM

LOL. Yeah, OBs are herks to us (women), but they don't even acknowledge the men!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:53 AM

*jerks
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Sarah Meyers · 12:53 AM

I wanted women to know their options.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:53 AM

I went to a hostpitol "birth class" and it was just embarassing.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:53 AM

I felt women needed more choices than that.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:53 AM

SO what ARE the options? Because in this country, babies come from hospitals.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:53 AM

and i like to talk.... I mean..... teach : )
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Sarah Meyers · 12:54 AM

it's true, but there is more, if you're sneaky : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:54 AM

Audience members may be uncomfortable with even the word "midwife."
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Sarah Meyers · 12:54 AM

you can have a regular hospitol birth, you can have a midwife hospitol birth, you can have a hospitol birth with a doula, (more on them later) you can have a birth center birth, or a home birth!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:54 AM

It's hard, but hte choices are there.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:55 AM

And in the hospital - or anywhere else, there are levels of intervention.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:55 AM

There was a huge smear campaigned int eh 1900s, so it's normal for people to be uncomfortable with the idea, b/c it was very sucessful.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:56 AM

yes, there are. and really, from international research, the less interventions you can get, the better.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:56 AM

better for mom and baby.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:56 AM

★ Spotlighted from Missy Trader

“That is terrrible that they were made fun of for their choice to have a drug free birth!”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:56 AM

(See: All My Babies, a beautiful 1950s (?) documentary on midwife training in rural areas)
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Sarah Meyers · 12:56 AM

Thank missy! we agreed!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:56 AM

all my babies is SOOOOO good! I love that lady!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:57 AM

So, some bigger questions:
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Sarah Meyers · 12:57 AM

another great documentary.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:57 AM

yes ma'am?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:57 AM

WHy do you think we have these jarring misconceptions about birth and what it really is an what it means in this country?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:57 AM

Common misconceptions are that it's TOO painful
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:57 AM

that it's dangerous
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Sarah Meyers · 12:58 AM

b/c transition is big drama, and labor takes forever : ) so they show the drama, and people assume it's horrible and you're going to tear to tiny pieces and die.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:58 AM

that it's silly to even think about natural childbirth - only hippies do that
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Sarah Meyers · 12:58 AM

i love hippies.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:58 AM

that you need to birth on your back with your feet in the stirrups,
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:58 AM

and that DOCTORS deliver babies.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:58 AM

but really, i think it's just an issue of mainstream images.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:58 AM

(They DO NOT!)
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Sarah Meyers · 12:59 AM

we need to keep putting out the great images and videos of drug free births to normalize it.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 12:59 AM

SO TRUE!
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Sarah Meyers · 12:59 AM

now, i am a supported of informed concent, if oyu want the drugs, go for it.
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Sarah Meyers · 12:59 AM

I jsut want everyone to know the true risks involved before they sign up.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:00 AM

What is an OB? (Trick questions; the answer is: A Surgeon)
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Sarah Meyers · 1:00 AM

lol, yes : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Blake Ian

“Sarah - That's great that you are motivated to do what you do because you were unhappy with the current options and circumstances... It's the best reason!”

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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:00 AM

Now, really, what is a midwife?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:00 AM

thanks BLake!
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Sarah Meyers · 1:00 AM

*Blake
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Sarah Meyers · 1:00 AM

I felt that it was needed in our area (north texas)
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Sarah Meyers · 1:01 AM

also, some midwives had jsut set up a birth center there, so it was perfect timing for us to join forces!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:01 AM

(C-section rate in North Texas is higher than national, which is around 33%)
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Sarah Meyers · 1:01 AM

a midwife is a trained medical professional who helps a mother deliver her baby.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:01 AM

a midwife does everything an OB/GYN can do, except surgery.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:01 AM

that doesn't mean they do it all though.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:01 AM

some midwives are more medical, some more natural.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

So...she's not a crazy, bug-eyed witch lady who doesn't shower and shakes animal bones at you?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

;)
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Sarah Meyers · 1:02 AM

lol, no. I'm pretty sure pam and hillary shower regularly : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:02 AM

(Those are the midwives at the birth center we went to)
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Sarah Meyers · 1:02 AM

my 1st midwife was a medical midwife
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Sarah Meyers · 1:03 AM

she used pitocin (at an appropriate time) when i retained some placenta.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:03 AM

she offered blood tests and baby eye goo and vit k shots.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:03 AM

2nd midwife had access to all that, but didn't rally bring it up much, perhaps b/c i'd already said no preemptivly : )
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Sarah Meyers · 1:04 AM

*preimptively
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Sarah Meyers · 1:04 AM

I can't spell that word : )
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:04 AM

What is the difference between a midwife and an OB?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:05 AM

biggest difference is the surgery aspect. midwives never do surgery.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:05 AM

2nd biggest that i hear mentioned is that midwives spend more time with you in appointments.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

(One obvious difference is that most OBs are men, and most midwives are women. It makes a difference in approach.)
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Sarah Meyers · 1:05 AM

they have fewer clients, so they can afford to hang out!
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Sarah Meyers · 1:05 AM

lol, that too
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:05 AM

Yes - and midwives think it's important to establish a relationship so they can comfort you during labor.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:06 AM

I don't know any male midwives,although there are a few super cool male obs who do support this, michael odent being one.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:06 AM

he's french!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

French? Hot.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:06 AM

lol and 70 something....
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

Oh. Well, then.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:06 AM

you almost made me spit out my tea...
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:06 AM

:)
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:07 AM

So, there's this saying: "When you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:07 AM

Which is to say,
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Sarah Meyers · 1:07 AM

when you have a scapel.....
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:07 AM

if you're a surgeon, everything looks like a reason to operate.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:07 AM

Yes!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:07 AM

So, I think right there we have hit upon the real reason that the c-section rate in the US is so high.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

And it is high.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

1/3 of US women have incapable bodies?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

I don't think so.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:08 AM

yeah, World health organization says it should be around 5-10%
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Sarah Meyers · 1:08 AM

and that's in all humna populations
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

Yep.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:08 AM

ours is average 35%
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

So what's really up?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:08 AM

north texas sits at 60%
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:08 AM

1.) Women are scared.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:09 AM

It is easy to intimidate and bully a pregnant woman
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:09 AM

(But it isn't nice)
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Sarah Meyers · 1:09 AM

super easy. and their moms....
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:09 AM

True. If you have enough will to stare down your doctor about pitocin, will you also then stare down your mom/mothr-in-law?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:10 AM

Many women don't.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:10 AM

lol, i did, but that's just me. competative : ) but if we change the attitude, the climate, women won't have to stare down their moms!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:10 AM

*So explain about pitocin, why it's a common intervention and why it's not the best.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:10 AM

or be bullied, for educated choices!
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Sarah Meyers · 1:10 AM

pitocin is rough.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:11 AM

pitocin is used to "augment" labor.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:11 AM

pitocin is a drug that was created for another reason entirely (stomach ulcers i think) and they noticed it caused uterine contractions.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:11 AM

So if you go "too late" (which is kind of absurd) then they give it to you to "start" labor.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:12 AM

the funny thing is, there's a thing called the bishop scale, where you can see how likely inductions will work.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:12 AM

most people are given pit when they are at zero on the bishop scale.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:12 AM

which means your body won't even react to it.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:13 AM

additionally, pitocin causes unnaturally strong contractions, which is super painful for mom and hard on the baby.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:13 AM

the babies need time to breathe too!
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Sarah Meyers · 1:13 AM

then, pile that on top of a mom who's had a previous c-sec, and there's a whole new pile of problems.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:13 AM

So that usually causes the fetal heart rate to accelerate and blood oxygen to drop...leading to c-section.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:13 AM

it really needs to be a last resort, and only for real danger.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:14 AM

yes, exactly. poor babies!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:14 AM

So why is it so commonly used in medical births?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:14 AM

b/c people like to be "in control". "i'd like to have oyu have this baby by 39wks, to make sure it doesn't get too big!" says the doctor
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Sarah Meyers · 1:15 AM

so the mom, scared the huge baby will get stuck, drives up at 6am to get induced, is not allowed to eat, and is not allowed to move
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Sarah Meyers · 1:15 AM

guess what happens next *most of the time*.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:15 AM

"Cascade of Interventions"?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:15 AM

now, granted, some moms are fine on pitocin, but over all, the research seems pretty dangerous.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:16 AM

yup
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Sarah Meyers · 1:16 AM

and if they'd jsut wait a bit longer, they wouldn't need it anyway.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:16 AM

Wait, as in wait for labor to start naturally?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:16 AM

lol, yeah!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:17 AM

We're running up on an hour - Blake, is it okay if we run long this time?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:17 AM

I don't know of anyone who was perpetually pregnant. though it does feel like that the last few weeks.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:17 AM

:D
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Sarah Meyers · 1:17 AM

how will you know if he answers?
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:18 AM

I don't know. But I'll assume if there was a problem, he's say something.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:19 AM

lol, ok!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:19 AM

Alright, then - let's clarify some things for people, because I think we may just assume that people know what we know.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:19 AM

sure!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:20 AM

So, birth in America is skewed. We have really high c-section rates.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:20 AM

Why is c-section bad?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:20 AM

yeah
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Sarah Meyers · 1:20 AM

um, b/c it's MAJOR abdominal surgery!
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Sarah Meyers · 1:20 AM

I didn't really realize it, but they cut through about 11 layers of "stuff" in your abdomen
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Sarah Meyers · 1:21 AM

additionally, issues often happen during the surgery with the nearby organs... scary stuff.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:21 AM

then after, you're more prone to infection, you can't walk, you can't sit up, you can't bathe, you can't drive, and oyu have a newborn!
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Sarah Meyers · 1:21 AM

it takes a very long time to heal from a surgery like that.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:22 AM

it also makes it harder to breastfeed, b/c of the inscision site and the drugs involved.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:22 AM

Yup. As if breasfeeding needs to be any harder!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:22 AM

TO be clear, some c-sections are necessary and can be inthe best interest of the mom and the baby.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:23 AM

right? that's a fantastically complicated relationship that does not need to be messed with!
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Sarah Meyers · 1:23 AM

yes, agreed, which is why the WHOI sys 5-10% in human populations would be good, to keep mom and baby alive.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:23 AM

But it's very clear that all of the c-sections in America are NOT necessary.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:23 AM

*WHO
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Sarah Meyers · 1:24 AM

correct. 60% in north texas is too high. 60% of the women there are not imcompetent at birth!
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:24 AM

Well, aside from surgeons and unnecessary interventions, why else might the c-section rate be so high?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:24 AM

fear.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:24 AM

there's a major mental aspect of birth that many doctors ignore.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:25 AM

Explain.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:25 AM

and that holds a lot of women pback.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:25 AM

if you're terrified that the baby is going to get stuck and die, you're body cannot release and let the baby out.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:25 AM

Ina may refrences the shincter reflexes.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:26 AM

(Ina May Gaskin, the preeminent leader of the midwife movement)
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Sarah Meyers · 1:26 AM

panic and fear cause adrinaline which has been shown to slow, halt, or reverse labor.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:26 AM

you're got to be able to calm down and release the baby out!
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Sarah Meyers · 1:26 AM

also, the snowball of interventions that you mentioned earlier.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:27 AM

if your chance of a c-sec is at 33% when you walk in to a hospitol, it goes up to 50% if you take an epidural pain killer.
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Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:27 AM

So maybe a cold room with fluorescent lights and lots of people and shouting and beeping machines might not be the most relaxing (ie, conducive) environment for childbirth?
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Sarah Meyers · 1:27 AM

epidural causes things to slow down, to which htey respond with pitocin, and then they baby has fetal distress, abd you get a c-sec.
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Sarah Meyers · 1:27 AM

yeah, hospitol room isn't super cozy ; )
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:28 AM

Also, doctors don't tell you the risks associated with receiving a spinal injection (epidural).
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:28 AM

matt's making fun of me b/c i use a british spelling of "hospital" sorry to all those i (know i didn't really) offended : )
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:28 AM

no,t hey don't
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:29 AM

and having a huge catheter in your spine is pretty risky!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:29 AM

You could be paralyzed for life, or even temporarily, or have ghost pain for a long time, or get a raging infection in your spinal cord.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:29 AM

also, migraines!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:29 AM

no thank you.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:29 AM

Oh, yeah. Bummer of a deal.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:29 AM

or, many women only feel it on one side!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:29 AM

I'll take labor pains, thanks! Have you SEEN those needles???
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:29 AM

one sided labor? that'd be so wierd.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

EWWW?
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:30 AM

some women have unforseen heart reactions to the epiduarl too.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

So, what are the drawbacks of the epidural to the labor process, aside from being risky?
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:30 AM

yeah, the needles are crazy large, b/c they actually thread a catheter in to it!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:30 AM

When you can't feel it, what does that mean for you physically and emotionally?
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:31 AM

well, it can be good for a mom who is exhausted, or really anxious, b/c it can calm her down, let her sleep. other than that, it's mostly negatives.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:31 AM

(That is heinous. I'm okay with shots, but not large needles in my spine.)
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:31 AM

they slow everything down. which leads to more interventions, which we mentioned.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:31 AM

and it's nearly impossible to help push, which can cause issues of the baby being slow to come out.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:32 AM

additionally, you can't get out of bed once you have one.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

Because your legs are numb.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:32 AM

which really leads to misalligned babies a lot.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:32 AM

What's that?
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:32 AM

they can't get into your pelvis right, or out over your tailbone.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:33 AM

babies going into the pelvic opening facefirst, or witht eh wrong part of their head (i.e. crooked)
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:33 AM

or shoulder distocia, which is when a shoulder gets stuck.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:33 AM

the shoulder thing is easy to fix, if the mom can move. it's a bit harder when sh'e's immobile.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

I've heard newer research say it causes babies to be disoriented.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:34 AM

yeah, they seem "fuzzy" and "drugged" b/c THEY ARE!!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

They have a hard time latching on after birth, they are "slow" for a few hours until the medicine wears off.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:34 AM

doctors say it doesn't affect them, but it does
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:34 AM

So it's not true what we've been told - that it doesn't affect the fetus!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:35 AM

it very obviously does. you're sharing blood with the kid. they won't even let you eat tuna.... come on!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:35 AM

:D
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:36 AM

There is SO much more to this whole issue of the broader picture of birth in America.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:36 AM

same with pitocin and the narcotics.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:37 AM

yeah, it's pretty sad really, b/c women are really uninformed.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:37 AM

I talked to my high school students about it all the time and they had NO idea what was going on.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:37 AM

Yeah - if YOU gave your baby narcotics, you'd be arrested! But if an OB forces you and your baby to have narcotics, he delivered your baby!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:37 AM

they didn't know anything other than drugs, legs up, dr pulls out the baby.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:37 AM

lol
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

Oh, that just makes me so angry!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:38 AM

there's no education on other options.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

So there are lots of things wrong, but what can we do about it?
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:38 AM

talk!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:38 AM

Research!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:38 AM

tell people about the choices, give them the books, share the movies!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:38 AM

find them a doula network
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:39 AM

doulas are a great way to be less messed with in a hospital
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

There are doctors who do respect their patients' wishes, even in the States. :)
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:39 AM

a doula is a mom-supporter for labor
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:39 AM

yes, there are some great docotrs! we need to find them and advertise for them!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:39 AM

And a doula is a great way to make sure the doctor supports the mom's wishes!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:40 AM

I know of a doctor in plano
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:40 AM

This is a huge issue, and I want to have you back to talk about the emotional significance of birth for women (and why we need to regain control over that).
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:40 AM

he cried for his patient's sucessful VBAC!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:40 AM

how cute is that?
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:40 AM

cool, that'd be great!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Missy Trader

“Rebecca-Good point that if you gave your baby drugs you would be arrested, but it is perfectly normal and accepted to give your unborn baby drugs before they are born. I never thought of it that way. It makes perfect sense.”

SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:41 AM

yeah, that's how i feel about most medicines offered to my kids : )
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:41 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“I think a good question is why is it so expensive to have a baby in the US?”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:41 AM

But next month, I want you to come back - third week of September, maybe? - and talk about your fantastic nonprofit learning co-op that you are actually creating!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:42 AM

I think it's expensive b/c of the malpractice insurance that the docotors have to carry.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:42 AM

and all the drugs you have to pay for.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

Seth - PLEASE watch The Business of Being Born. It's on Netflix and maybe even Youtube.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:42 AM

It give you all the stats.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:42 AM

yes Seth one answers a lot of questions, it's great!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:42 AM

nonprofit learning co-op, I like that phrasing!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:43 AM

Thank you all for being here! FOr whatever reason, we could see very few of the comments. I apologize if we missed people's questions and brilliance.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:43 AM

Also, some midwives are covered by insurence, which is handy!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:44 AM

Thank you for coming to listen/read!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:44 AM

Yup! It's great, because they are FAR cheaper for better quality care.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:44 AM

please pass this around to anyone you know who'd be interested!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:44 AM

Come back next time for more birth Tawk.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:44 AM

yay birth tawk!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

And next week, I'll be talking to Seth Toker about new developments in sustainable building and housing. SOme of the stuff will blow your minds!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:45 AM

ooo, i want a sustainable house!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

★ Spotlighted from Missy Trader

“Yes, I think it has to do with insurance and drug companies wanting money!!!”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:45 AM

Oh, big pharma - we forgot to mention that they profit when doctors use the drugs.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:46 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“when we had our son a dr charged $1100 for a five second hearing test. If that's not usury I don't know what is. Fortunately, our ins. brought down the cost dramatically”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

And they take the doctors out to lunch to get them to order more drugs.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:46 AM

SO there's a problem there.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:46 AM

Seth, the state of texas is now requiring midwives to do that, which is causing some of them to lose their liscneces b/c they can't afford the machines.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:47 AM

*licences
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

That sucks, Seth! Hospital billing is insane! If anyone out there understands it, please have a Tawk to enlighten the rest of us!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:47 AM

Yeah - states are coming down on midwives like that because they are trying to put them out of business. Standing up for midwives is a very important action to take.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:48 AM

heck yes!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

There's information out there if you look. Midwives overall have incredible statistics for healthy, safe births, nationally.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

Better than the hospitals.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:48 AM

yup yup!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

AND, they visit themom at home after birth tho make sure she is okay, has no infection is able to breastfeed, etc.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:48 AM

Much more humane.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:49 AM

goota love homevisits!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Right we have wealthcare instead of healthcare in the US. The whole healthcare industry revolves around making hospitals super rich, HMO execs make over $12 million/yr on average, and big pharma gets a cut from everyone as well.”

SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:49 AM

*gotta
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

You are right-on, Seth! Childbirth is a huge piece of that. 60% of most hospitals' income is the birth ward.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:49 AM

Think on that for a minute...
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:50 AM

wow, i didn't know that one!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:50 AM

geez......
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:50 AM

that makes me a little sick
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

What kinds of decisions are likely to be made to keep that deparrtment rolling in the money?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“It's not about your health, it's about providing for your doctor, hospital, or HMO's financial health”

SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:50 AM

gross
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:50 AM

Sick, huh?
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:51 AM

And to do this, women have been systematically told over the last 100 years that they are insufficient for a task they were actually born for
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:51 AM

I personally am going to give my money to midwives.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:51 AM

or doulas : )
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

And childbirth educators. :)
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:52 AM

yay!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:52 AM

so i don't have to have a real job : )
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:52 AM

and i can be with my kids!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:52 AM

A loving, supportive network during birth is the best indicator of a successful outcome, no matter where you birth!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:52 AM

yes ma'am!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Missy Trader

“Wow...that is crazy that 60% of the hospital income is from birth!!!”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“And I believe two hospital chains, Columbia and Tenet, own over 90% of the hospitals in the US. So much for a free-market.”

SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:53 AM

that is too creepy.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

Ouch, Seth, that's actually terrifying.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

So, it's the same problems we have with for-profit prisons...
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:53 AM

Fill the beds!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:53 AM

oh prison.....
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:54 AM

that's just sad.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

Both are places where sick people go to congregate - not places I want to expose an infant to. But that's me.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:54 AM

true that!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:54 AM

I don't dig the machine that goes "bing!"
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:54 AM

some one tired to cinvince me that the hospital was cleaner than my house.....
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:55 AM

and I was like "uh, staph infections? hello?"
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:55 AM

love that skit though, monty python hit it on the head.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

Yup. My mom picked up an infection in the hospital with my little sister that kept her there 6 weeks.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“In most countries, it would be illegal for two companies to control the market like that. With this much control, the two chains set their own prices with each other and can fix policies and terms. What other choice do people have”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:55 AM

Exactly, Seth! Exactly!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:56 AM

midwives are the other choice!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

But we want you to know that you DO have a choice. For now.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:56 AM

staying educated, staying under the radoar,
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:56 AM

*radar
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

Medicine is actually sick care. Diet, exercise, healthy living are health care.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:56 AM

So you can take care of your own health.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:56 AM

finding a place to do this safely and stand up for your rights, which is scary and dangerous, but do-able.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

Yeah. It's a scary thing in this climate. Doctors call CPS on parents who question their diagnoses all the time.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:57 AM

yeah.... that's a whole 'nother thing.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:57 AM

It's very Orwellian. That part in 1984 where he talks about all kids being basically turds because any attempt at dicipline saw them yelling about abuse.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Missy Trader

“That is one of the many reasons why midwives are the way to go!!!”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:58 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Very true Rebecca...an ounce of prevention will go a mile, especially when it comes to healthcare”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

But the very propaganda that has turned women into defective vessels and childbirth into an impossible task has also turned Americans into pill-poppers.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 1:59 AM

We don't need what they are selling, except in emergencies.
SM

Sarah Meyers · 1:59 AM

so we will keep talking! and keep telling people our crazy ideas about fruit and veggies!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Yes!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 2:00 AM

and we will tell teh whole world how great midwives are!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Missy Trader

“Can you recap on the documentaries that you all recommended that everyone watch? I know the business of being born and All my babies. What was the other one?”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Some people don't know about midwives while others are intentionally misinformed so that people go the standard route of getting "soaked' while having a bath and paying thousands for the same thing they could get for a fraction of the cost with a mid”

SM

Sarah Meyers · 2:00 AM

"born in america"
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:00 AM

Agreed, Seth. Yes, Missy, then it's goodbye for real, now!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 2:00 AM

also, bussiness of being born has a 2nd part now!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 2:01 AM

lol, goodbye veryone! thank you for being involved and pass on the info please!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 2:01 AM

ina may's book natural childbirth is great too!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:01 AM

Also, listen to this podcast about the difference between the midwife model and the medical model: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/progressive-parenting/2013/04/16/are-you-pro-choice-todays-topic-midwifery#.UW7yLVX1WmE.facebook
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9LO1Vb54yk
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

This TED Talk
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

It's Ina May Gaskin.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

★ Spotlighted from Missy Trader

“Thanks!!!!”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:02 AM

Okay, everyone, good night! Thanks for coming!
SM

Sarah Meyers · 2:03 AM

here's another fun site! http://talkbirth.me/birth-skills-workshops/handouts/
SM

Sarah Meyers · 2:03 AM

good night!
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:03 AM

If you're arriving late, Hit the Top button in the lefthand corner to read the conversation from the beginning.
RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:04 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“Buenos Noches!”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Seth Hochman

“I believe I know the answer already...greedy hospitals and HMO's who run our healthcare industry”

RT

Rebecca Westbrook Toker · 2:52 AM

★ Spotlighted from Missy Trader

“My insurance won't pay for a midwife, so we had to pay out of pocket.”